EV Digest 4395
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: series wound rpm
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Kokam powered Electric Imp does 58 miles at 65 mph
by Aaron NMLUG-EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Siamese Motors
by "hi_torque_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Cryogenic EVs?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Motor tips, was Re: John Wayland Motors
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Welding helmet recommendation
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Welding helmet recommendation
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: series wound rpm
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Las Vegas EV service
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Controller question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Cryogenic EVs? 120mpg Insight?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: series wound rpm
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) article: The inevitable coming of the electric motorcycle
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Bob Lazar Hydrogen conversion kit
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Welding helmet recommendation
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Welding helmet recommendation
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Welding helmet recommendation
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Welding helmet recommendation
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Busbars for Batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: series wound rpm
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Dragsters at Power of DC
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: 48v charging
by "Rodriguez, Jennifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Blue Meanie Draws a Crowd on Auto Row
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Motor tips in reponse to James Massey
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Hey, welcome, Jim! I was pleasantly surprised to see you've found your way to
the EVDL.
hi_torque_electric wrote:
> Hey D.R.
> As a motor guy I'd like more info, like how'd you come up with 4.5
> HP, as most forklift motors don't rate HP on their name plates. If
> it's stamped into the nameplate, what brand and any numbers you can
> get could help me look up basic info.
Yeah, I concur with Jim on this. The nameplate on most forklift motors will
usually give a
kilowatt rating at the one hour rate, not HP....that's not an absolute, but
it's usually
the case. I'm keenly aware of this, in that as the field instructor for many of
our new
hires, I often point to the motor nameplate and have the new tech tell me what
it means in
terms of hp, volts, and current....example 9 kw @ 1 hr.
> I do have John waylands 8's in
> my shop and would like to know....
Now Jim, don't get too carried away with hanging out here on the EVDL....I need
that
Siamese 8!(sound of a whip cracking) You know I'm just kidding, in fact, I've
still got
one of the armatures here that the Dutchman ran out on his lathe for
you....gotta get that
one back to you soon. I guess I should've handed it to Matt when he dropped off
that BIG
monster yellow thing.
Gotta go, I've got 60 Orbitals to take off a pallet and stack on the three new
Gorilla
shelves I just installed in my shop to make room for the Zombie's 30 new
Hawkers that will
be ariving this week.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 2005-05-28 at 16:24, John Wayland wrote:
> How do these cells fare at 1000 amps? Is that known yet, or would they be
> damaged by such
> currents? I suspect they are limited to low currents around 400 amps and less.
I dunno about the big cells... But I use Kokam PiPoly cells in my toy
airplanes. These are high-power cells, and rated for discharge
at 10C to 20C. I don't have any planes that do more than about
15C, but I've done short bursts at 15C with no heating noted.
Bursts long enough to run a drag race, certainly.
> Way to go on that range.
I'm certainly more interested in weight and cycle life.
50-100mi with a smaller, lighter pack would be wonderful.
Then again, I'm one of the converted.
I still think that its more likely that a significant segment
of the public will learn to accept range limits before
expensive, heavy, less efficient vehicles.
--
Aaron Birenboim \ I have an inferiority complex,
Albuquerque, NM, USA \ but its not a very good one.
aaron at birenboim.com \
http://aaron.birenboim.com \
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey john thought you'd enjoy my post. Okay first off I'm coming to
portland next week on thursday. I've picked up the metal to do the
middle section on your shaft and will try to machine it by wed,
night. If all goes as planned we just might be pressing the arm's on
next week at the dutchmans. One problem is my sister is coming in
from Alaska and I'll be picking her up at the airport. I don't think
she'll mind hanging out for us to do this. I will have to bring over
the motor housing so we can measure comm. distances and such for that
just right feel. If you are unable to attend this un-eventfull event
I'll make sure to get kieth to grab a pic for ya hehehe. I've
machined the heavy duty D.E. bearing housing on the rear end in
addition to modifing one of your old mound brackets. i mounted it to
face the rear hoping you could build a plate mout it can rest and be
mounted to. Right now it is free swinging and can be mounted in any
degree. I'll wait for input before modifing other unit to see what
would be best. This is what we're down to:
1) Press armatures /wrap windings /dip lightly and bake to perfection
2) Turn and cut armatures
3) Balance the unit.
4) Machine adjustable ring assy.
5) Weld brackets onto housings
6) Bring baby home to John
Sounds like a lot but I'm hoping it will be to you within 2 weeks
I don't have a welder big enough to really get a good bead for
mounting brackets and was wondering if you had access to someone good?
Also I was thinking of painting the siamese twins ruby slipper red.
Here's my thoughts on that. First rubies go with zombies(at least
the wealth ones) and I'd like to think of the motors as the twin ruby
hearts pumping life through the beast. Besides the silver strip
between to ruby housings I think would look good. Anyways keep the
armature i'll grap it from ya thursday. By the way what did you
think of the swing action of the ring on the beast? Cya Jim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you'll have trouble finding a single platform that will please a
large number of people.
The ideal might be to develop a kit that had several components that would
work for a few to several gliders (probably all from one mfgr). One might
design a single adaptor that would work with several years and lines of
cars, a few different battery racks or boxes each of which would fit 2 or 3
cars, then have a variety of other parts to suit as needed.
Regrettably this would require a daunting financial commitment to test all
the possible combinations, and it's tough to see it as justified by the
potential level of sales. I think that the Voltsrabbit kits broke even
eventually, but it took years IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong about this), and
that was for only one (very common) car. Designing a kit of the sort I'm
advocating would probably not be fundable by an investor. It would have to
be a labor of love, perhaps supported by a philanthropic source - private or
public - which was willing to provide an out and out grant for the
development.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi,
I missed the front end of this but,
After I broke my transmission the last time I had two people tell me to get
my gears and shafts cryogened. I look into it a little bit. One heavy
duty drive shop pointed me to a company that did it. I also had a diesel
mechanic tell it would harden the surfaces.
Have not looked any farther.
Robert Salem
> > http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360346
> >
> > BS, you know nothing about it then.
> >
> > Nearly all of these
> > > cryogenic treatments are just snake oil.
> > >
>
> I think the guy with the funky airfoil on his van got more positive
> testimonials, so if that's a gauge of BS...
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:08 AM 28/05/05 -0700, Jim Husted wrote:
Hello to all:
My name is Jim Husted owner-operator of Hi-Torque Electric. <snip> My
motto is: I learned how to build motors by learning how not to build them.
<snip> I can do any modification you can dream up, as I am a master at
what I'd call a copper and insulation smith.
Welcome, Jim
Glad to have someone with your area of expertise on this list. In case you
were unaware, this list is global, with over 1000 people on it. No idea
what the ratio of USA vs rest of the world, but safe to say there are a lot
of people on the list who would love to have you do their motor work but
are on the wrong side of the planet, and who appreciate words from the wise.
My request to you, is a posting from you that is a list of things that are
desirable to have done to a motor to give it the best chance in life. Some
would be needed to be done at winding time, but others would be able to be
done as part of a maintenance service.
Can you do this for us?
Thanks in advance
James Massey
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am looking into buying a welding helmet.
Solar powered, auto darkening, # darkening start max, fixed ,variable,etc?
What does your experience recommend?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A little over a year ago I bought a Hornell (now 3M) Speedglas 9002X with
side windows, which was a lot more helmet than I really had any rational
justification in buying. But having done so, I am happy I did ... it is a
LOT nicer to use than a cheap $50 helmet. When you turn the system on,
you get a shade level of about 2 to 3. This is clear enough to see without
a whole lot of added illumination, and it can be very handy when you're
welding in an area that's difficult to shine light on. Shading and
switching sensitivity are adjustable, which has also come in handy.
Another nice feature is the clear inside and outside lens covers, which
can be replaced when they get scratched up.
http://www.hornell.com/hsi/9x.html
On the other hand, another way to look at this would be that for the price
of a decent drop light or two, you can save a couple hundred dollars
buying a cheap auto-darkening helmet from Harbor Freight. :o)
--chris
Stu or Jan said:
> I am looking into buying a welding helmet.
>
>
>
> Solar powered, auto darkening, # darkening start max, fixed ,variable,etc?
>
>
>
> What does your experience recommend?
>
>
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The shunt wound motor can be started and run with just a contactor with no
fear of overspeeding as a series wound motor behaves.
You are correct, this is the same property as a Permanent Magnet motor.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "hi_torque_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Deuville's Rink" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: series wound rpm
> Hey D.R.
> As I stated I'm new here so I'm not hip to all the lingo yet but you
> say you are looking for a shunt wound motor? or a series wound
> motor? Shunt wound motors are usually used as continuous duty jobs
> like power steering units and such, more like a permanent magnet
> motor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, if you are in the Las Vegas area and you know of people who do
maintenance on electric vehicles, please contact me or refer them to
me. I'd also like to contact the Las Vegas NV EV clubs - thanks!
brad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Has anyone tried using a carbon pile to controll current? I have used them
> before to test batteries, and they SEEM rather robust.
>
Do you mean as a motor controller?
Assuming you could find one large enough to handle the power, it would
work, as long as you don't mind half your range being wasted as heat.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> He claims a million miles on the motor and increased fuel economy. See
> URL
> below. LR>........
...and if you run the fuel through a magnet you can "organize" the fuel
atoms and double you mileage. No really I read about it in an add once,
they even claimed the military was using it. <rolls eyes>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm why not just buy a laser tachometer? They are pretty cheap and much
more accurate.
I saw one somewhere recently for $40. Can't remember where though.
> Here are a couple of simple ones (paper and flourescent lights):
>
> http://www.gizmology.net/lathetach.htm
> http://www.sherline.com/rpmgage.pdf
>
> Another way is to put a spiral on the spinning part and time how long
> the line takes to go from the inside to the outside or vice versa.
>
> --- Deuville's Rink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> ...
>> Unfortunately I do not have a way to tell rpm but
>> will be looking for a way next so I know better whats happening.
>> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An article about some interesting electric motorcycles:
link:
http://gizmag.com/go/4083/
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone seen any contact information for Bob Lazar in new Mexico?
He has a new service upgrading cars to run hydrogen with a solar kit
for making the hydrogen it uses.
http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3373771&nav=168Xa85s
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is best to test out what kind of welding helmet you want in different light
conditions you have. I went back to the fixed type using different lens for
the type of welding is done.
The problem we had with variable or auto darking, is that when we welded in one
room that has a ceiling full of fluorescent lights that has a color spectrum
for ideal detail working conditions, the auto darking would work find as long
as you do not get any back lighting into the helmet.
If you have too much back lighting coming in, then you would hood the helmet.
But when we move to another room where the light color spectrum is design for
painting and graphic work, than the auto darking lens would keep changing every
time the worker would move. The light spectrum is set to 35 for the best light
conditions equal to sunlight. A spectrum of 55 which is equal to a diffused
daylight which is good for painting seems to make the lens to change or even
shut down which everything would go black.
I am so aware of this little change each time. I can't even stand to used
bi-local's, variable focus eye glasses or even contacts. They call me 8 eyes
wearing reading glasses, driving glasses and sun glasses all at the same time
which is good for playing Texas Holden. Now, I got to find a pair of X-ray
lens.
Roland
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu or Jan<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 10:04 PM
Subject: Welding helmet recommendation
I am looking into buying a welding helmet.
Solar powered, auto darkening, # darkening start max, fixed ,variable,etc?
What does your experience recommend?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Per my welding instructors advice Avoid the Harbor
freight Cheap units. I bought a Miller with Auto
darkening, solar, and battery back up. If you have
never used one talk with your local Welding supplier
first. There are settings in the helmet which if not
set properly they will leave you seeing bright spots
because it is too slow to respond. Also be sure to
pick up some half leather at least. The sparks will
instantly go through any cloth and you will have the
metal embedded in you. Also in buy a face shield the
lighter the better but cost go up too. Expect about a
150 to 250 price tag or more in US.
--- Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am looking into buying a welding helmet.
>
>
>
> Solar powered, auto darkening, # darkening start
> max, fixed ,variable,etc?
>
>
>
> What does your experience recommend?
>
>
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
>
>
>
>
Future 72 Super Beetle conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
In my work as a forklift wrench, I do my share of welding these days. I've used
the auto
darkening, solar activated Harbor
freight Cheap unit, at just $49 on sale, for nearly two years now...not a
single problem,
it always works perfectly, and it's adjustable. Properly adjusted, it never
flickers from
dark to light, it is instantaneous in the way it darkens, and I'd never go back
to the
dark ages of a fixed welding helmet again. It's found its way to a hard
concrete floor
many times, too, and has never broken. In my case, and for at least 4 other
coworkers who
also use them, the cheap unit from Harbor Freight has been very reliable.
See ya.....John Wayland
Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
> Per my welding instructors advice Avoid the Harbor
> freight Cheap units. I bought a Miller with Auto
> darkening, solar, and battery back up. If you have
> never used one talk with your local Welding supplier
> first.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Roland Wiench wrote:
The problem we had with variable or auto darking, is that when we
welded in one room that has a ceiling full of fluorescent lights that
has a color spectrum for ideal detail working conditions, the auto
darking would work find as long as you do not get any back lighting
into the helmet.
But when we move to another room where the light color spectrum is
design for painting and graphic work, than the auto darking lens
would keep changing every time the worker would move. The light
spectrum is set to 35 for the best light conditions equal to
sunlight. A spectrum of 55 which is equal to a diffused daylight
which is good for painting seems to make the lens to change or even
shut down which everything would go black.
Are you sure the helmet darkening randomly was a function of the color
temperature of the fluorescent lights?
I have one of those auto-darkening helmets from Harbor freight (the $49
one John Wayland had mentioned), and overall it has worked just great.
But, often times in my garage I'd experience the same effect of the
helmet sort of darkening on its own or randomly if I was working say at
night by just the lights in my garage. These were your typical older
fluorescent fixtures with the magnetic ballasts and T12 lamps. Several
months later I went through the house and retrofitted all the magnetic
ballasted fixtures with electronic ballasts and T8 lamps.
Since then, I've had no problems with my welding helmet darkening
incorrectly or when it shouldn't be. As the color temperature didn't
change, I'm assuming this improvement in helmet operation is due to the
fact that the electronic ballasts are driving the fluorescent lamps at a
much high frequency (like 25 kHz) where the magnetic ballasts drove them
at 60 Hz (or less if the lamps were old and flickering)...
Just my 0.333 kWh (=2 cents),
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> Forget the liquid tin idea; that stuff is just barely adequate
>> for tinning PCBs.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> How thick does the plating have to be? It's just to prevent corrosion.
I believe the hardware on the aircraft nicads is nickel, because it has
a very high corrosion resistance to the KOH electrolyte. So you want to
nickel plate your bussbars for best corrosion resistance; not tin.
When you have two different metals in contact (like nickel and tin), you
*create* a source of corrosion. In the presence of an electrolyte (like
KOH), you have a battery. This battery is shorted, because the two
metals touch each other. So, one metal corrodes/oxidizes, and the other
gets reduced. In this case, the tin would be the loser, and would soon
be converted to tin oxide, and become useless.
If there's copper underneath the tin, then it start in corroding the
copper. The copper is going to corrode even faster, since nickel-copper
produces a higher voltage cell which results in even more corrosion
current.
The tin plating solution used on electronic circuit boards is extremely
thin; it is basically cosmetic (looks nice), and will only protect the
underlying copper from corrosion for a short time. PC boards that get
exposed to the air and aren't used within a few months get much harder
to solder.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Ghandi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Deuville's Rink wrote:
> hello guys, still working on my Zamboni conversion, finding it hard to locate
> a shunt wound motor, am thinking that maybe a forklift series or advance
> series may do the job. Today I tested a 36 volt 4.5 hp explosionproof series
> (from an old explosion proof forklift that was a freebee) on the zamboni at
> 72 volts, the motor did not runaway as there is enough load on just turning
> the transmission to hold the motor.
Many "series" forklift motors actually have a small shunt field as well.
This field is powered all the time, and serves to limit the maximum
speed (so a forklift rolling down a ramp won't overspeed). If you were
able to apply 72v to a 36v motor at no load and it didn't overspeed,
then it isn't a pure series motor; it has a shunt field.
> Is there any formula that would tell me how the much the rpm will drop
> per hp of added load?
No; they can build the motor to have just about any speed drop you want.
With a compound motor (both series and shunt fields), it can have zero
speed change, or even *increase* speed as the load is increased.
> The 4.5 hp motor amp draw was 200 amp so it was working at around
> 19 hp. Would the advance 8 inch be more efficient?
That's quite a bit over its ratings. I would expect the 4.5hp motor to
heat up pretty fast at 19hp. You might only get 10 minutes or so of
running time at this power level before it overheats.
The "rated" HP of a motor is usually pretty close to its most efficient
operating point. So a 19hp rated motor would be more efficient than your
4.5hp motor at 19hp. But the efficiency difference may not be all that
large; perhaps 70-75% for the 4.5hp motor at 19hp versus 80% for the
20hp motor at 19hp.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Ghandi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Speaking of dragsters, I believe Jim Ludiker is still selling his.
It's pushing it, but there is enough time for someone to buy it and get it
going to race at the Power of DC.
http://www.ghiamonster.com/ludiker/dragster.html.nw
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Power of DC
http://www.powerofdc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe,
Thanks for your analysis! Actually, I plan to use the stock 10 Amp
charger for opportunity charging and the 3.5 Amp Soneil for overnight
charging at home, so the setup sounds like a pretty good one for me.
That way, I always have the stock charger with the scooter (so I don't
forget it), and I'll have a gentler charger ready and waiting at home to
help de-sulfate the batteries and it won't matter if I forget to unplug
it before bed. If I need to do a quick recharge at home, I can still
use the stock charger.
Jenn
Yellow EVT 4000e
Santa Clara, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Smalley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 11:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 48v charging
http://www.bb-battery.com/productpages/EB/EB50-12.pdf states the maximum
charging rate is 15 Amps for the batteries.
http://www.electricrider.com/chargers/specsheets/4808rf.pdf states the
maximum charging rate of the charger is 3.5 Amps up to 57.6 Volts, it
tapers
until the current drops to 1.75 Amps, then it drops to a float Voltage
of
55.2 Volts.
My opinion is that the taper to 1.75 amps causes the transition to occur
too
early for opportunity charging.
Two 2416SRFs on each half of the pack would work better when opportunity
charging because it tapers down to 0.8 amps before dropping to float
voltage.
I have had good luck with a charger like the 2412-SRF with AGM batteries
whereas the charger dried out (destroyed) flooded batteries in about a
month
of connect time.
The 4808-RF charger and EB50-12 batteries seem to be compatible but
suffer
from the "charge overnight to top off" paradigm. If the batteries were
empty
(0% SOC), it would take this charger over 14.29 hours to charge. (50
AHr/3.5
Amps)
This is not a very good opportunity charger. It will work, but it will
not
restore many "percent SOC" per hour.
I'm sorry. I'm not that patient. I want my charger to finish charging in
two
to four hours so I have a full charge at lunch time, after work and
again
after dinner. That way I can run four shallow cycles per day instead of
one
deep one.
If I was going to use these 4808-RF chargers, I would install four of
them
in parallel or find a 15 amp model that better matches the battery
manufacturer's maximum rate specification.
I guess I got spoiled playing with Rich's monster charger. It pulls down
a
pack of 19 Orbitals in half an hour and back up in 40 minutes. We
weren't
able to crack the 60 minute round trip I was able to do with a single
Optima
because we did not have enough load bank to bring that many Orbitals
down in
20 minutes (like I could do with the single Optima.) If the need arises,
we
could have the 20 minute discharge capability in a couple days.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodriguez, Jennifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: 48v charging
> Hi,
>
> I'm the other person Cristin mentioned in her first post. In my case,
I
> have the B&B EB50 batteries (four 12V 50Ah batteries), you can view
> their specs here:
> http://www.bb-battery.com/productpages/EB/EB50-12.pdf. I have been
> using the stock charger, which specifies that it should not be left on
> for more than 12 hours. It charges at 10 Amps. I was interested in a
> Soneil charger to help de-sulfate the batteries, and because it could
be
> left on indefinitely (sometimes I forget to unplug at home). The
> charger I'm looking at is the 4808SRF, see specs here:
> http://www.electricrider.com/chargers/specsheets/4808rf.pdf. That
also
> happens to be the charger that Cristin is using with her EVT. (I
think
> she also has B&B batteries, but I'm not sure of the model.)
>
> Knowing the batteries now, can you tell me if the Soneil would be a
good
> charger for these batteries? In my case, I plan to still use the
stock
> charger for charging away from home, such as at work, which is about
40%
> of my charging. I looked at the battery specs, but I did not know how
> to determine which level of charging would be best.
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Jenn
> Yellow EVT 4000e
> Santa Clara, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Smalley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 11:08 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: 48v charging
>
>
>
> 1. A high rate initial charge current is recommended by some
> manufacturers
> but not others. You did not state the brand and model of battery so we
> would
> have to guess if 10 amps is appropriate for your circumstances.
>
> 2. Some batteries respond very well to slow charging. You may have
some
> of
> these batteries. On the other hand, the slow charger may have been
> installed
> because of cost.
>
> 3. If all the regs are blinking, they are doing their job. You can
> verify
> that by measuring the voltage on each battery when the reg blinks. A
> charger
> that backs off properly will taper to a nice low finishing current and
> have
> ALL the regs blinking.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gravity Girl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 11:11 AM
> Subject: 48v charging
>
>
> >
> > Questions about charging for my EVT-
> >
> > I removed the stock charger that came with the EVT, not knowing if
it
> > is smart or not (my guess is that it isn't that smart, if at all)
and
> > replaced with with a Soneil 48v charger. I also put on 4 Rudman regs
> to
> > make sure the batteries stay in balance during the charge.
> >
> > A member on another list I am on (for e-mopeds) told me she had
heard
> > that the Soneil was good for a top-off charge, but that the
batteries
> > would last longer with a minimum 10A initial charge. They
recommended
> > the Zivan NG1 to provide this. Since I can charge my EVT all day
while
> > at work and all night while at home, speed isn't so much of an
issue.
> >
> > I have noticed that the regs only pulse for a very short period of
> time
> > during charging, my guess is because the Soneil takes things nice
and
> > slow with a very low current finish.
> >
> > So, questions:
> >
> > Will starting a 48v charge on SLA batteries at 10A increase battery
> > life?
> > Is the soneil under-charging?
> > Should I add a second soneil in parallel to increase charge current?
> > Do the regs sound like they are behaving properly? (or have I messed
> up
> > the installation somehow)
> >
> > I forgot to bring my dvm to work today to check the battery levels
at
> > full charge. I imagine that will help answer question #2.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -Cristin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > La Bola Ocho Magica dice: SI
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
I had the pleasure of talking with Otmar last night as we discussed racing
ideas, the
delivery date of what will be Zilla #3 for me, the Z2K EHV controller destined
for
Purple Phaze, and went over my multiple EV projects together. He brought up the
fact,
that many of the newbies on the EVDL might not be familiar with what kind of
car
Blue Meanie is, which made me laugh. He insisted, that I shouldn't assume
things and
that my posts might be better received if every once in a while I took the time
to
describe it for the newest members of the EVDL. With his comments in mind, the
following
is a fun story about a recent 'instant car show' Blue Meanie created, as it
often does.
Blue Meanie is one of two '72 vintage Datsun 1200 sedans I have, both are
electric
conversions. The other one, is White Zombie, a vehicle fairly well known for
its good
acceleration in the 1/4 mile drag. Side by side, the two cars are identical,
same model,
same year, same everything except of course, for the way they are converted to
electric
power, and the fact that one is white and the other is blue :-) You can take a
look at
Blue Meanie here:
<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/036.html>
The Datsun 1200 was so named after its fume sniffing 1200cc engine, and came to
the US in
two versions only, the more popular 2 door fastback, and the sedan version like
I have
called the 1200 coupe, also only in a 2 door configuration. Those lucky
Australians also
got the super cool Datsun 1200 pickup that they call a Sport Ute, something I'd
love to
have someday...I think it's the cutest little pickup, ever. The Datsun 1200
lived through
three production years here, '71, '72, & '73, but after that, the 1200 (Nissan
called it
the B110) was unfortunately morphed from a cute, crisp, lean machine at just
1587 lbs. for
the coupe, into the bulbous fat lip bumpered homely Datsun B210, a 400 lbs.
heavier low
performance, boring car...argh!
About the Datsun 1200 economy sedan, on 5-18 Ken Trough had written:
> I can certainly see the attraction to converting 70's era Japanese
> imports thanks to the weight savings, but even those are pretty
> asthetically challenged by most people's standards. As cool as White
> Zombie is on the track and on the street, it doesn't jump out at people
> the way sports cars do.
>
> I say if you are going to convert....at least go
> with something that people can appreciate style-wise. That's why I'm
> converting my 79 Corvette Stingray...will be an eye-catching
> electric that will inspire people where ever I drive it.
I've met Ken, he's a nice guy, and I'm certainly not upset with his
not-so-glowing
comments about the Datsun 1200, but I did get quite a chuckle over his take on
the way a
tricked out Datsun 1200 is received, and especially found humor in the way he
thinks a
Corvette is a head turner...oh well, I guess each to his own. Around here,
Corvettes are
just, well, Corvettes, nothing all that exciting, and usually, driven by a 45
year old guy
in a midlife crisis thinking 'chics' dig his car....sorry, that's not for me,
and besides,
mid 40s came and went a long time ago, and I was too busy playing with EVs to
have a
midlife crisis. I've never seen anyone stop and stare at a Corvette parked
along side
other cars at the grocery store or wherever. At the car shows I'm regularly
part of, the
Corvette section does have its admirers, but quite frankly, there's always a
bigger crowd
around other machines like tricked out Mustangs, and yes, hotrodded sedans from
all eras.
As I've previously written, after a period where Blue Meanie was off the road
for mods,
it's now back and being driven around again. I had the occasion to take some
unused new
parts back to the local VW dealer following a power steering pump replacement I
did on my
son's girlfriend's Jetta. The dealership is immediately next door to a Chevrolet
dealership, you know, where they sell Corvettes. It was a bright, sunny day and
as I had
pulled into the left turn lane to get in the lot, I could see the the various
car salesmen
looking at my gleaming little car, one pointing excitedly and their eyes
following the car
as I turned in. I had taken the wrong entrance and missed the VW lot by maybe
50 feet, as
I cruised past Cobalts, BIG SUVs, and yes, Corvettes. I did a turn-around and
left to move
over to the next entrance to the VW dealership, where I found an end parking
space to
avoid door dings, parked my car, and went into the parts department.
I was stuck behind some poor sap paying $75 for a plastic glove box door for
his VW and a
$21 ransom for a 'VW approved' gallon of standard fare antifreeze. After maybe
20 minutes
stuck at the parts counter, I went to get in my car only to find at least 12
guys admiring
it, two had come over from the Chevy dealership. If my car had been a Corvette,
I doubt
anyone would have been waiting near it for me to return to tell them all about
it.
In another post, I had written:
> Blue Meanie was a big hit, as it usually is, and it delivered what I've
> always referred to
> as its 1-2-3 punch. Punch 1, is the fact that it's a clean and straight,
> gleaming little
> Datsun 1200 sedan...Punch 2, is when they look into the open engine
> bay...damn, this thing's
> an electric car! Punch 3, is when they either learn about its stunning
> acceleration performance,
> or, they witness it first hand.
And with these words in mind, here's what happend when I went out to my car.....
Unnamed admirer: "Oh, this your car?"
EV guy: "Yes it is."
Unnamed admirer: "It's gorgeous, an older Datsun right?"
EV guy: "Yeah, a '72 Datsun 1200".
Chevy dealership guy: " You just don't see too many of these in this kind of
shape
anymore. I used to have a 1200 and wish I still did."
Yet another admirer: " I wish they'd make cars like this again....love it s
style, so
clean and uncluttered."
EV guy: "Well, uh, thanks guys.... (time for the 1-2-3 punch)...You know, it's
an
electric car, right? You 'did' notice this back here, right?" (pointing at the
Mike Chancey
ELECTRIC emblem on the trunk lid corner)
Various other guys almost in unison: "Geeze...wow....no way!"
The next thing you know, I'm popping the hood, popping the trunk lid, and
hitting the
remote for the rear battery tray motor to do its thing....more "wows". We had
about 15
minutes of show and tell, heavy on the 'tell' part as I educated them about
quick and
fast electric street and drag machines. As I left to pull out onto 122 Ave. I
summoned up
the amps, the Zilla-Optima combo delivered, and those poor rear tires lit up
and screamed
loudly.... in my rear view mirror all I could see was guys with their jaws
dropped open.
It certainly wasn't the kind of hole shot one thinks of from a '70's economy
car, let
alone one that runs on batteries. Punch 3 delivered....great fun!
> My personal conversion projects are 1/2 for my own tastes and desires,
> and 1/2 to inspire others to invest in electric. Eye popping visuals
> attract so much more positive attention...
I agree with Ken on this. It's why I choose a fun, cute, eye catching Datsun
1200 sedan
to convert into an EV, then did what was needed to make it even more special.
Marko
Mongillo's wonderful Fiamp, his '59 Fiat 600 sedan, has the exact same effect
on all those
who catch it rolling down the road, or parked anywhere...there's always an
instant crowd
around his cute little inverted Italian bathtub.
See Ya...John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In response to:
My request to you, is a posting from you that is a list of things that
are desirable to have done to a motor to give it the best chance in life. Some
would be needed to be done at winding time, but others would be able to be done
as part of a maintenance service.
Can you do this for us?
Thanks in advance
James Massey
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
Sorry this is long but I was bored today, and then I couldn�t connect to post
first half, lol.
So you want to know a bit about motors? Well let�s see what we can cram into a
couple of pages here. First most people think a specific motor is a specific
motor, well yes and no. Most people assume that because it�s a factory built
unit, it�s all tuned right, again yes and no. I�ll use these illustrations as
examples. Over the years I�ve built 1000�s of 6� MEA style Prestolite drive
motors (same exact motor type). Not one ran exactly like another, each had
what I call a personality as unique as you and me. In my L600 Prestolite test
spec book for example an MEA style motor is listed to test at 12Volt @ 0 load
with an acceptable range of 30 to 40 amp�s @ 3000 to 4000 RPM. Well that�s a
25% difference in speed, let alone looking at the motors over-all efficiency
differences. In a forklift going 5 miles an hour, not to bad and is an
acceptable spec as a default process for manufacturing. Even in forklifts
though I get calls about a replacement motor being slower than!
the
original, only to find that it is still several hundred RPM�s above spec, he
just had 1 at the very high end to start with. With you guys lets add a
magnification of 10 to the math and you have a much bigger issue concerning
motor variations. With you guys over-volting these motors, I�d tend to lean
toward the slower, less amp drawing spec�s, for more torque as you seem to get
the RPM�s to the needed ranges. This should apply to both racers and daily
drivers (I just remembered not all here are racers)(sorry I�m used to dealing
with John Wayland). Anyways this might be why some guys have all the luck,
lol. Brush grades, air gap, brush timing, all add up to making your motor
purr, or tend to grumble.
In fact lets take a look at Waylands pair of twin 8�s. I doubt that both
motors were spinning within 300 RPM�s of each other (I failed to pre-test
motors separately before disassembly) and that would be @ 12Volt 0 Load. If
you throw 336 volts on them like John wants to, then that�s a huge difference
in RPM (this might be why the front motor coupler had no wear, the front motor
wasn�t pulling as hard?).
Every type of motor has a weak link. Some it�s in commutation, some armature,
while others tend to burn fields, ECT. These weak links are more related to
the application of any given motor and not, lets say to a bad design. I have
several customers who use the same type of forklift, with identical motors. I
can tell from just the damage to the motors who each one was from, without
asking. Well, I�m looking to get the same type of history on what I�ll call
over-volted motors. Feedback from you guys is what I need to build a better
mousetrap. I know you are looking for some info on maintenance and basic motor
tips and I�ll start working on that ASAP (being its raining here, so I can�t
mow the yard ; ) ). I figured I�d play here a bit instead(See below), lol. I
could be at the shop building John�s twins but he doesn�t respond back to me,
lol. Anyways this site really shows how small our world really is, good to
hear from those down under.
Motors 101:
A product I use that anyone could use is called dolph�s brand AC-46 insulation
spray. Its aerosol (no dip tank), air-drying (although I bake mine for quicker
cure), and has 1200 Volt dielectric properties. Another product I use is
called fusa-fab, and is a fiberglass wrap .006 X �� and it's pre-impregnated
with a class H varnish(again no dip tank needed). Although I bake mine, (nicer
look) it can be cured with a heat gun or torch. Fusa-Fab cures to a hard
fiberglass wrap just like you�d find wrapping a set of field coils. It can�t
be used on flexible parts, but I use it to wrap solid leads and connections. I
also use it at the ends of cables to insulate the terminals. I hate electrical
tape, heat shrink tubing, or anything else that�s not Class H insulation.
Nomex brand 10 mil Arimid paper (not spelled right, I�m sure, sounds like
airamid).
You can get a 24� X 36� X 10 Mil sheet which would be more than you�d need for
your motor, but I�d bet the remaining piece would find other places to
insulate. It�s flame resistant and a nice barrier to add behind your field
coils to aid in insulating against the housing. Just cut it into strips that
can be slipped behind coils, against the metal housing, and most important in
between the pole shoes (so they can fully seat to the housing and not rest 10
mil shimmed). Another good use is to cut out some circles, (or squares for the
more challenged, like John, lol) and punch a hole into the center big enough
for you to slip it over your motors terminal studs. Remove your cables and
remove the stud nut and insulator and install the nomex disk. Reassemble and
you have a nice insulated area around your terminal connection. Looks a lot
nicer than red glyptal and ten times more resistant. In fact it could be used
to isolate the entire motor from any cable rub or exposure. A!
ll three
of these products are available at electrical insulation supplies (EIS) and
can be found on the web below, where they can direct you to the nearest branch,
at least.
http://www.eis-inc.com/
I sell a really nice finish grade comm-stone that is 8� X 3/8� X �� and would
last an individual years, as long as its not dropped or chattered to hard while
stoning the comm. as it is a bit on the brittle side, not nothing like the
white chalky stuff most people use. I have it custom made and have to buy 50
pieces min. so this item would be a little harder to get for those far away. I
sell them for 12.50 a stick plus ups or mail postage. I have never meet anyone
who does not love this stone.
>From what I can tell, using a brush made from H-100 material is a good bet for
>just about everyone here, as its properties have a high list of abilities and
>ranges. Don�t skimp with after-market brushes (not that there aren�t good
>ones), but if you don�t know you stand a better chance at scorching your comm.
> This leads me to an idea I had. If anyone is having brush problems and would
>like to send me a sample of their old brush, I could send it in to be analyzed
>by the people who make brushes for me in bulk. They have helped me improve
>brush life by recommending a particular grade for some of my most brutal
>customers.
Another good idea is to ream out your brush terminal holes to a #10 hole and
re-tap the brush ring threads to a 10 X 32 or, a 5 mm for those abroad, and
attach your brush with a larger screw. This is a very basic up-grade and could
prevent you from a must larger repair job if it were to arc off half of your
holder because the factory put this itty-bitty screw to attach brushes. In
fact any time you can up-size do it. Remember that any motor any of you are
using has not been built to do your job. Had they known maybe they would have
thrown 3/8 terminals rather than 5/16 (10mm �8mm). Also check your brush
screws from time to time. They heat up and stretch, add vibration and you get
loose connections, and this leads to unhappy faces, lol. Remember here I�m
basing this off what I�ve seen from electric forklift applications, and not
everything will apply. Heat is heat, amps are amps, and steel is steel so a
good preventative maintenance program is just plain smart. This !
also
applies to your outside cable connections to your motor terminals (you have no
idea how many motors come in because they arced the terminal post off). Most
people can�t silver solder a new stud onto their field coils. One last thing,
install vented covers over your motor windows if they have them. You guys are
running around with giant magnets and anything metal going in is not coming
out. I�ve seen tons of motors seized by small metal debris caught between the
armature and the pole shoes. I�ll use John Wayland�s 8�s for example (sorry
John you�re the only crazy man example I have for now). The only damage his
motors showed was a flash over from the comm to one of his brush holders on one
motor. I later found a small piece of metal smashed between the body
laminations of the armature. I believe he picked up a small piece of debris
off the track which caused a short between the comm and the brush holder where
it was kicked into the air gap and smashed into the lam s!
lot. Had
it welded itself to his brush holder he could have grooved his comm to
unusable before he could have finished his run, or locked his motor up tight.
Either way, not good. John�s retrofitted pair of twins will sport a cover,
whether he likes it or not, lol. By the way the nomex paper works well as a
band, just punch small holes in it and pop rivet a piece of angle metal and
drill 2 holes for the tightening screw and you got a cover shield and it�s
insulated to boot.
Well I hope this was kind of what you were after, and now I have a question for
those of you who might know?
John Wayland wants to have solid jumpers from the �A� studs to the brush ring,
instead of the stock cable leads, simple enough. This may appear ignorant for
a �motor guy� to ask but as I stated I fancy myself more as a copper and
insulation smith and not anyone with intellect, anyways.
Here�s my question: electricity flows on the outside of the material, and so
doesn�t cable with a lot of smaller wires create a larger flow capacity than a
solid of the same size?
Thanks to all
Jim Husted
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour
--- End Message ---
