EV Digest 4397
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Is this motor similar to what is going in purple haze?
by "hi_torque_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Las Vegas EV service
by "a.k. howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) '00 Kia Sophia EV on Ebay
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Cable Crimping
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) OT: Shim steel supply
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Bob Lazar Hydrogen conversion kit
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Bob Lazar Hydrogen conversion kit
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Fisher & Patchel Washing M/C Motors for Hybrid Alternator
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: series wound rpm
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: series wound rpm
by "Ellery Deuville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Motor tips in reponse to James Massey
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Fisher & Paykel Washing M/C Motors for Hybrid Alternator
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Wire Gauge - Solid vs Stranded (was Motor tips...)
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Bussbars for Batteries
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Dual Etek Motor Mounting Plan? (reverse noise?)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BadFishRacing)
18) wire gauge, was Re: Motor tips in reponse to James Massey
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Welding helmet recommendation
by Aaron NMLUG-EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: I remember a teenage "arc" experiment - welding question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Motor tips in reponse to James Massey
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Cable vs. Solid copper
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: I remember a teenage "arc" experiment - welding question
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: OT: Shim steel supply
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Busbars for Batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Motor tips in reponse to James Massey
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hi_torque_electric wrote:
>
> > John's tested at 950 RPM at 12 volt and drew 23 amp's
>
> What's the highest rpm that motor can handle and still stay together?
>
> What's the weak link when talking about these motors and rpm?
Well it looks older and you might have a steel comm there, which would
be awesome. Even if it's a bake-a-lite comm and (it's in good shape)
you should hope to get what john's looking to get and thats 7000 RPM's
(he's at 6500 with his 8's now)Whether the comm's will hold is what
we'll see, at least with the Haze.
I've built few Drexlers because they were more poperlar back east and
it was a good lift, motors didn't fail(good sign). If there were more
time I could call frenchy from Beech or Larry Boes to get more info as
they built these unit's in dearborn, MI. but can't till tuesday. Sorry
I have little actual knowlege of this particular motor but it would be
a capable motor for sure. The higher RPM's at 12 volt tell me this
motor is lighter in the field coil dept. than alot of other large GE's
that would run around 1200 to 1500 Rpm's. In my minds eye I see this
motor as being faster on the top end with less torque on the launch.
Shimming air gap or adding field winding's would improve this. Hope
this helps Jim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Las Vegas EV service
Date: Sat, 28 May 2005 23:19:18 -0700
Hi, if you are in the Las Vegas area and you know of people who do
maintenance on electric vehicles, please contact me or refer them to
me. I'd also like to contact the Las Vegas NV EV clubs - thanks!
brad
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Greetings.
We have a Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association here, which has a vebsite
at
www.lveva.org
Feel free to contact those who are listed on the website. I'm not sure where
to lead you as far as maintenance on EV's. You are welcome to also email me
on or off the list. If you are in Las Vegas, feel free to attend our
meetings on the third Saturday of the month. 1015 am to 1215 pm, at Clark
County Public Library on Flamingo Road about a block east of Maryland
Parkway. Let us know how we might be of help. Regards, A.K. Howard, Las
Vegas, NV.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy Folks
I was checking out the seller's other items from the link to the xtra large
motor previousely posted and found this-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=46093&item=4552708071&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Buy it now is only $800 and the guy has had the car since it was new.
It's a little funky but is a great deal.
So... who is gonna scarf this one up quick? :^D
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
Hammer crimpers seem to have something of a bad name - though as well as I
can recall, this list is the only place where I've heard negative comments
about them.
[snip]
Now I have a hammer crimper. Same deal, put it on the floor and beat it
mercilessly with a big hammer, except that I don't feel the need to solder
any more. None of THESE crimps has failed either.
I was hammer crimping some 10 ga. contact sets for Anderson SB-50 connectors
today and was impressed with how well it _does_ work.
I normally use a large set of Quick Cable crimpers but this job was to small
for them :-(
A hex crimper has the advantage that you can often crimp under the hood or
under the car on a creeper or (maybe) inside the back hatch. This is nice.
It is easier to get a hex crimper into a small space. Though I have used
hammer crimpers in tight quarters with good-sized block of wood to back it
up.
If you are gonna take pictures... get a good hex crimper.
A common after-effect of using the hex crimpers is an unnatural desire to go
find a camera. :^D
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
dear Keith
the brakes on the vehicle are already mounted in the
same way as a wheel motor would be... the bicycle
wheel motors use the same mounting as the hub break
and using permanent magnets that turn with the wheel
and having the armature stationary just makes good
sense. I like that design...simple and
straightforward... regen on all four wheels...
potential for an abs type regen controller and only
use the friction brakes to hold you on a hill or
provide the last little bit of stopping power and
emergency stopping.
I believe it is also wise to use the kiss principal...
keep it simple silly(or stupid or sweetie... whichever
way you heard it the first time!) the hydraulics just
add a complication that to me seems unnecessary. It
complicates the regen, and gives you another
conversion to perform and loose more efficiency...
(I'm not trying to dump on your suggestion, I just see
lots of problems in trying to make hydrolics that work
on a battery electric vehicle)
the big off road dump trucks use electric wheel
motors... I found reference to that on the web
somewhere from GE?
http://www.royaleq.com/gewheelmotors.html
this wind generator is build similar to a wheel motor
and is worth checking out! It has killer magnets on
it!
http://www.otherpower.com/17page1.html
This is a really interesting article!
an electric bike
http://www.greenspeed.us/tidalforce_electric_motor.htm
Tom
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tom Watson wrote:
>One of the reasons I was suggesting the wheel
> motor idea is because... if you made a wheel motor
to
> fit say a chevy bolt pattern, it would fit any chevy
> car... they used the same bolt pattern for the
> last 70 years... (probably longer) (except some
trucks are different) This would allow you to have a
motor, controller and charger kit that would fit
almost any chevy car from the 50's to today. Wouldn't
that be great!
yes it would be great: except for the fact that
wheel motors have stationary hubs and just bolting on
a motor would not work without locking the drive train
up so the electric motor would have something to work
against.
maybe we could lock all the brakes and use regen to
stop the vehicle... would this be as a hybrid add on
or replace the ICE all together
> difference you'd have to plan for is the size of
> the motor and battery racks and controller mounting
> location! Electric wheel motors are a great idea
that has not panned out well in practice. The
compromises you need to make to the design to fit it
into a wheel throw away most of the benefits they were
> supposed to provide. Now, there *is* one kind of
wheel motor that has turned out to be practical --
hydraulic wheel motors are widely used in all sorts of
> industrial, mining, and earthmoving equipment. It
> would be possible to design a hydraulic wheel motor,
install them in place of the normal driven wheels of
an ICE, and run them all from a central hydraulic pump
> driven by an electric motor.
what about losses and effeciency of hydraulics??
Hydraulic lines are
> easier to route than
> drive shafts.
______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When you really come down to it, there aren't that many combinations
out there today. If one were to make adapters for, say, a 350 small
block, Ford 4.6, Honda K-series and a couple of others, you would have
a huge choices in vehicles. I think that the biggest cost for a
converter would be in the battery and controller racks, and wiring into
the existing 12V system.
Tim
From: Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: May 29, 2005 12:53:55 PM PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
Dear David
One of the reasons I was suggesting the wheel motor
idea is because... if you made a wheel motor to fit
say a chevy bolt pattern, it would fit any chevy
car... they used the same bolt pattern for the last 70
years... (probably longer) (except some trucks are
different)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All
I have a customer (whose CNC machining centers we look after) who is
looking for large pieces of shim steel.
All the suppliers that he's found in Australia can only supply small pieces
(pre-cut).
He is looking for someone who can supply 0.2mm (or similar thickness) steel
shim in 1200mm (4') wide section, either 2400mm (8') long, or in roll form.
He doesn't care where in the world it comes from, or (within reason) how
long it takes to get it.
Anyone got any contacts?
Thanks in advance
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/29/05, Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anyone seen any contact information for Bob Lazar in new Mexico?
> He has a new service upgrading cars to run hydrogen with a solar kit
> for making the hydrogen it uses.
>
> http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3373771&nav=168Xa85s
>
>
Bob Lazar? That name sounds familiar...
>From his website..
[..]
Over the following years, Bob was hired at a remote area of the
Nevada Test Site known as Area 51/S4 to engage in some highly
classified research,
[..]
Oh yeah. I remember, this is the guy who used to claim that he'd
worked on crashed UFO technology. I'm sure if you google "Robert
Lazar" "Area 51" you'd find some interesting reading.
...I couldn't resist:
http://www.ufomind.com/area51/people/lazar/
[..]
Lazar offers an interesting, intelligent, unverifiable story
surrounded by lies....
Bob Lazar claims to have worked with alien spacecraft at a secret U.S.
Government facility at Papoose Lake, about 80 miles north of Las
Vegas. Lazar intially made his claims on a local Las Vegas television
station in Nov. 1989. He says he worked at a facility called "Area
S-4" at Papoose Dry Lake, south of the known government air base at
Area 51, in late 1988 and early 1989. There he says he saw nine flying
saucers housed in hangars built into a hillside. Lazar says he had
hands-on experience with one of the craft and he can describe its
propulsion system in detail. Lazar says he read briefing papers about
the alien presence but that he saw no aliens himself (aside from a
fleeting glimpse of a small figure through a window at the facility).
[..]
Never mind hydrogen, ask him for an antimatter drive :)
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Brad Waddell wrote:
His hydrogen kit:
http://www.unitednuclear.com/h2.htm
Those are some pretty fance Metal Hydride tanks!
Integrated heating and temperature monitoring!
Why does it need heating elements? Because as
you "Discharge" a metal-hydride tank it cools
and looses some pressure, so by adding heat you
can maintain the same "Power Output" over the
"Capacity" of the tank!
I wonder if I can get one of his kits on my Insight!?
Would probably double the energy requirements, but
it would be a "Renewable" home power ICE solution!
Required BEV content: So the H2 kit would require arround
twice the energy, an EV conversion would use about 1/3.
<Shrugs>
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear Sirs
Has anybody used an F&P wash m/c motor as an alternator? I have a friend
who gets old ones off the sidewalk (we call them nature strips or
footpaths here) and makes wind turbines from them. Plan is to run 2
robin Diesels each driving one of these @ 2000RPM with 3000RPM when
urgent. I already have these Robins or I would use an Isuzu triple.
David Sharpe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/29/05, Deuville's Rink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On the series runaway with the motor connected to the sundstund hydrostatic
> transmission, there is a load all the time with the turning of the trans and
> piggybacked hydraulic pump. I am thinking that the load is enough because of
> the high current draw(175 amps) with the motor running and all controls in
> neutral. When the machine is moving the draw goes up and the rpm goes down.
This sounds a rather high "neutral" power requirement - is your
hydraulic system open or closed centre? Gear pump or swash-plate
piston pump?
If it's open-centre and gear pump, it could be that your motor speed
is too high. Try adding a PWM speed controller to bring the speed
down. This will also let you experiment and find out the speed and
power requirements for selecting a more suitable motor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 6:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: series wound rpm
Hi Evan, I don't know a lot about the trans but it does say it is a
swash-plate and I believe the hydraulic is geared. One thing is that I don't
operate very much in the neutral position, Once started I am out the gate
and moving until I come off the ice. I am going to order a laser tachometer
so that I know what rpm I have
Ellery
On 5/29/05, Deuville's Rink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On the series runaway with the motor connected to the sundstund
hydrostatic
> transmission, there is a load all the time with the turning of the trans
and
> piggybacked hydraulic pump. I am thinking that the load is enough because
of
> the high current draw(175 amps) with the motor running and all controls in
> neutral. When the machine is moving the draw goes up and the rpm goes
down.
This sounds a rather high "neutral" power requirement - is your
hydraulic system open or closed centre? Gear pump or swash-plate
piston pump?
If it's open-centre and gear pump, it could be that your motor speed
is too high. Try adding a PWM speed controller to bring the speed
down. This will also let you experiment and find out the speed and
power requirements for selecting a more suitable motor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, it does. If the individual wires of a stranded wire are not
square wire that can
butt tightly against each other, thus mimicking a solid conductor, and they
are instead,
round (as is the majority of stranded type wire), then all those round
wires next to each
other create lots of non-conducting air passages between themselves...this
reduces the
amount of conducting material in a given gauge size. Two 8 gauge wires, one
a solid type
and the other multistranded, the solid one has more material and passes
more DC current
with less resistance.
If the cables are correctly labeled, this won't be true. Two wires of the
same actual gauge will have exactly the same cross sectional area of copper.
The gauge is determined by the total amount of copper, not the outer
diameter.
So, the stranded wire will be slightly larger in oveall diameter. If you
compress the stranded wire into a solid mass, it will then have the same
diameter as the originally solid wire.
Of course, some wire manufacturers "cheat" when it comes to wire gauge, and
not all wires labeled the same gauge have exactly the same amount of copper
in them ( like they should). One way to compare two wires would be to cut
the same lengths ( for example, 1 foot) of each cable, remove the
insulation, and weight them accurately.
As far as buss bars vs cables, the bus bars will generally keep cooler ( if
they are flat stock with more cooling surface area than the cable) and lower
temperatures mean lower resistance. So, even bus bars with the same area of
copper as the cable they are replacing will probably be better.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:16 PM 30/05/05 +1000, David Sharpe wrote:
Dear Sirs
Has anybody used an F&P wash m/c motor as an alternator? I have a friend
who gets old ones off the sidewalk (we call them nature strips or
footpaths here) and makes wind turbines from them. Plan is to run 2
robin Diesels each driving one of these @ 2000RPM with 3000RPM when
urgent. I already have these Robins or I would use an Isuzu triple.
Hi David (and all)
The Alternatve Technology Association (based in Melbourne) did a series of
articles and responses in their magazine (ReNew) starting from Issue 80
(Jul-Sep 2002). I have some of them, and can photocopy and send to you if
you need them.
There are two basic types, a low voltage version, around 30V, and a high
voltage one at 100 and something volts. I think they are capable of
generating 500 to 700 watts, and may be useful to get some mild regen in an EV.
James (Launceston, Tasmania)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Philip Marino wrote:
> If the cables are correctly labeled, this won't be true.
> The gauge is determined by the total amount of copper, not the outer
> diameter. So, the stranded wire will be slightly larger in oveall diameter.
> If you
> compress the stranded wire into a solid mass, it will then have the same
> diameter as the originally solid wire.
I agree with this, you're right.
> Of course, some wire manufacturers "cheat" when it comes to wire gauge, and
> not all wires labeled the same gauge have exactly the same amount of copper
> in them (like they should).
I also agree with this...good points. Yes, unfortunately, a lot of the cable
out there
isn't labeled correctly. You can have two 10 gauge wires pretty much the same
diameter,
one has maybe 15 strands, the other has hundreds of fine strands and is the
same basic
diameter. The crudely made 15 strand wire is stiff and hard to work with, and
pushing 30 amps
through it heats up the wire. The flexible, better quality wire stays at or
near room temp.
with 30 amps flowing through it.
> As far as buss bars vs cables, the bus bars will generally keep cooler ( if
> they are flat stock with more cooling surface area than the cable) and lower
> temperatures mean lower resistance.
Stop it, you're making too much sense :-) If you can leave the bus bar bare
without any heatshrink
over it, like inside a compartment or behind an acrylic cover where it's
protected, it
will have direct contact with the air for quicker cooling effect, whereas a
wire's
insulation...well, it insulates and keeps the heat in. This is why the high
current bus
bar conductors inside forklift contactor panels are bare. Considering the
constant duty of
forklifts in heavy warehouse use where they run 24-7, heat disipation of these
bus bars is
critical when passing hundreds of amps all day and all night.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about the silver plating
http://www.palminc.com/chemicals/liquid_nickel_sulfate.htm
Mike G.
Forget the liquid tin idea; that stuff is just barely adequate
for tinning PCBs.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
How thick does the plating have to be? It's just to prevent corrosion.
I believe the hardware on the aircraft nicads is nickel, because it has
a very high corrosion resistance to the KOH electrolyte. So you want to
nickel plate your bussbars for best corrosion resistance; not tin.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan,
Just noticed that one of my Etek squeels. I've got twin eteks mounted opposite
rotations. (like the sucking amps motor box, but about 2 years ahead of my
time). One sound fine both directions. The other only squeels when turning it
in reverse (the opposite rotation it turns when powered). These motors have
quite a few passes on them. Now I forget which one is turning 'backwards', but
I'm assuming that the one turning 'backwards' has aready gotten the squeel
worked out of it, and when I turn it in reverse, it doesn't squeel. The one
running 'normal' has never been run in reverse, and therefore, still squeels
when turned in reverse.
I guess the point of my story is, it will go away over time. I guess the
sandpaper would quicken that process. I'm curious though if you see anything
funny on the brushes, a taper one way or something?
Later,
Darin Gilbert
BadFishRacing
Worlds quickest 48V etek drag bike
-------------- Original message from Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
--------------
> Does anyone running their Etek backwards notice that they
> squeel and don't sound very happy? Has anyone done something
> to resolve this? I'm thinking of applying sandpaper in the
> place of one pair of brushes and running it backward till the
> comm is sanded down slightly and stops making that noise?
> Is this a bad idea?
>
> L8r
> Ryan
>
> BadFishRacing wrote:
> > In my experience, the center of the timing slots is neutral timing. So out
> > of
> the box, the motor will perform the same in either direction. I've only had
> to
> adjust the timing a tiny bit to get equal current on both motors.
> >
> > As far as sharing a single sprocket, as with joining any shafts, any
> misalignment will wear on the motor bearings. Just be sure you join the two
> motors first, then attach the motors to the mounting brackets. I'm not sure
> exactly how critical the shaft alignment will be? Anyone else..
> >
> >
> > Darin Gilbert
> > BadFishRacing
> >
> > -------------- Original message from Mark Hastings :
> --------------
> >
> >
> >
> >>I am building a small 3 wheel cabin scooter and using dual eteks. My
> >>current
> >>plan is to use both motors facing eachother sharing a single sprocket over
> >>the
> >>end of both shafts (short shaft motor) and a key long enough to go down
> >>both
> >>shafts completely so they are forced to rotate at the same speed and it
> >>will
> >>allow an simpler/lighter drivetrain.
> >>
> >>For people more familiar then I with the Etek is their a long term issue
> >>with
> >>doing it this way? One motor going CW and the other CCW would be my main
> >>long
> >>term concern.
> >>I have seen motorcycles with the eteks mounted the same way sharing a chain
> and
> >>facing with seperate sproket/chains but I'm expecting to commute on this so
> need
> >>something that will last long term.
> >>
> >>Thanks for any advice,
> >>Mark Hastings
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think I remember in a similar discusion hearing that the "gauge" of
the wire is based on the amount of copper and not purly the diameter,
making 8 guage stranded and 8 gauge solid carry the same current capacity.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 2005-05-29 at 08:03, John Wayland wrote:
> Hello to All,
>
> In my work as a forklift wrench, I do my share of welding these days. I've
> used the auto
> darkening, solar activated Harbor
> freight Cheap unit, at just $49 on sale, for nearly two years now...not a
> single problem,
> it always works perfectly, and it's adjustable. Properly adjusted, it never
> flickers from
> dark to light, it is instantaneous in the way it darkens, and I'd never go
> back to the
> dark ages of a fixed welding helmet again. It's found its way to a hard
> concrete floor
> many times, too, and has never broken. In my case, and for at least 4 other
> coworkers who
> also use them, the cheap unit from Harbor Freight has been very reliable.
I have a Harbor Freight unit.
Yes, it works.
However, it has some optical distortion that gets
very annoying and can be hard to work with.
Some people would prefer an optically cleaner flip-unit
if they don't want to spend a lot of money.
Problem is that I have never been able to properly start
a stick or TIG weld blind after flipping down a shield.
(You can't see until you start the spark)
--
Aaron Birenboim \ I have an inferiority complex,
Albuquerque, NM, USA \ but its not a very good one.
aaron at birenboim.com \
http://aaron.birenboim.com \
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu and Jan wrote:
> When I was about 14 I had a friend that did the following arc
> experiment: He wired a light bulb in series of one leg of a 110 VAC
> line wire and connected it to a piece of steel. The other wire end
> was wrapped around a short length of graphite lead from a pencil.
> Using an insulator grip, if he touched the graphite to the steel,
> the 110 VAC went through the bulb and it lit.
> If he backed the graphite off the steel, it struck an arc.
Yep! It makes a carbon arc torch. Incredible amount of heat; it can melt
almost anything. It also makes lots of UV, and will give you a bad burn
and can blind you from looking at it!
> If I wanted to do the same for stick welding with 12 VDC or 24VDC
> from batteries, what ballast should be used to limit the current
> to approximately 100 Amps? Would one need a 'resistor' capable
> of dissipating 24 x 100 = 2400 watts if the arc shorted? What
> commonly available materials may be used?
DC works better than AC; your experiment would have worked better if you
included a bridge rectifier. The polarity determines whether the carbon
rod or the workpiece wears away faster.
You need about 30v or more to establish a good stable arc; 12v won't
work, and 24v makes it difficult to maintain the arc.
The arc itself will have a 20-40v drop; the rest of the voltage is
dropped across whatever you are using as your series resistance. For
casual "fooling around", just use cheap jumper cables, which have steel
clamps on the ends (instead of copper) and huge thick plastic insulation
and a tiny wire inside (i.e. they are nearly useless as true jumper
cables -- just made to look good). This "resistor" will indeed dissipate
2400 watts when you short it; but you only do this briefly to start the
arc, then back off and the current drops.
Carbon arc welding rods are "old school", but still widely available.
They are usually copper-plated to improve conductivity.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Larry Skidmore wrote:
> Finer stranding does suggest better usage (higher percent of copper)
> for a given diameter.
If all the strands are the same size, the percent copper is the same no
matter what the diameter of each strand. Basically, you are packing
circles hexagonally, which always leads to the same density.
> wouldn't a cable with multiple sizes of strands present more copper
> per cross section?
Yes, it can; think of it as having a smaller conductor that fits in the
spaces between the larger ones. However, such a wire would be awkward to
make -- I don't know if it has been done. If someone really needed the
ultimate packing density, I would think it would be easier to stack up
multiple layers of flat copper foil instead.
> I remember a very high strand count cable which was mad amazingly
> flexible by carefully laying each layer of stranding in opposite
> "hands" (clockwise over couter-clockwise) at about 45 degrees of
> twist. Fascinatingly flacid.
Yes; they still make cables like this where extremely high flexibility
is needed. It's called "wire rope", and they use all the same tricks
that are used with ropes to distribute the stress between strands and
improve flexibility. But again, flat cables are cheaper and easier to
make, and have tended to replace them.
> Would there be any benefit to graphite or silver dust among the
> strands?
Possibly. It might help when strands break, to transfer the current
laterally to intact strands.
> Finally, some copper applications tout "oxygen free" copper; what
> are benefits...higher conductivity.
Most of the benefits are in the form of higher profits for the seller.
I.e. it is all marketing hype.
The normal copper wire use by the ton has slight amounts of impurities
that raise its resistance about 1-2% over that of laboratory grade pure
copper. Really junky wire made from scrap copper, or wire that has been
stretched or otherwise mechanically stressed will have a resistance
another 2-4% higher. So the range between the best and the worst is only
about 6%.
Now, the tolerance on the diameter of the wire is greater than that. So
you could have a really low-grade wire tha happens to be on the high
side of normal diameter that is has less resistance than a top-grade
absolutely pure copper wire that happens to be on the low side of normal
in diameter.
> How good could power cable be? Worth any effort?
Well, you can use superconducting power cables that have ZERO
resistance. Of course, it takes a lot of power to keep them refrigerated
to cryogentic temperatures.
Or, use silver wire, which has less resistance than copper. Expensive,
but you'd get the money back someday when the motor is recycled.
> I know a really clever cable manufacturer in Taiwan who starts by
> drawing copper to spec.
Most large motors and transformers already use square, rectangular, and
specially shaped wire to fit into the winding spaces. It costs more, but
works better.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
keith vansickle wrote:
> yes it would be great: except for the fact that wheel motors have
> stationary hubs and just bolting on a motor would not work without
> locking the drive train up so the electric motor would have
> something to work against.
They make them both ways. There are hydraulic wheel motors with a fixed
axle and an outside hub that rotates, with a bolt circle so standard
rims bolt right to it. And, with a stationary body and shaft that
rotates, to which your hubs are attached to accept the wheel rims.
> maybe we could lock all the brakes and use regen to stop the vehicle
There are some interesting legal questions if you were to use the
hydraulics as your brakes. Many years ago, the laws were written to
require "hydraulic" brakes... meaning friction brakes with hydraulic
wheel cylinders to operate them (instead of some mechanical linkage,
which proved unreliable in antique cars). But many trucks and buses have
exemptions for air-operated friction brakes, and the GM EV1 got an
exemption for electrically-actuated rear friction brakes.
Hydraulic wheel motors are certainly capable of providing 100% of your
braking energy. They would convert braking energy into pressure and
flow. But you would need something else to capture this energy (store it
in an accumulator) or convert it to electricity with the pump/motor to
recharge the batteries. And, you would need a waste gate and radiator to
convert excess braking energy into heat to dump it when the regen system
was "full".
I wonder if the authorities would consider hydraulic wheel motors as
legal "hydraulic" brakes? If so, it could save a lot of weight in a
vehicle!
> or replace the ICE all together
The "prime mover" could be an electric motor, an ICE, or both. There are
of real-world examples of all three.
> what about losses and effeciency of hydraulics??
Hydraulic pumps and motors have about the same efficiency as electric
motors; 70-80% for consumer-grade stuff, 80-90% for premium parts. But,
you inevitably have 3 power conversions in a hydraulic-electric hybrid.
80% electric motor x 80% hydraulic pump x 80% hydraulic wheel motor =
51% overall efficiency.
Compare this to using the electric motor to drive the usual
clutch-flywheel-transmission-driveshaft-differential setup which is
probably 80-90% efficient. 80% electric motor x 85% mechanical
drivetrain = 68% overall efficiency.
In return for the hydraulics' 17% lower efficiency, you get a lighter
drivetrain, easier 4-wheel drive, and easier regen (can store braking
energe as pressure in an accumulator, rather than in the batteries).
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for all the feedback. It makes me realize how most of us run around
with what I�ll call � truths, or lets say incomplete truths. God help us if
this group could become truly collective (we�d need to keep Plasma Boy always
from final details to prevent a thermal nuclear vaporization of our world or so
I�ve heard). You can�t just join this group and not be amazed at the limitless
degrees of intelligence and shear hands on knowledge this group represents.
Even better is the fact that hard fought knowledge is so freely exchanged and
is not held in cloak and dagger style secretly held by one. Also does anyone
no how much longer we have before the oil companies discover this site and we
all mysteriously disappear leaving only monkeys left to re-climb the electric
evolutionary chain? lol. Sorry but I�m having fun here, as in 24 years of
motor building I�ve had precious few to bounce crazy motor ideas off of, and
have found none willing to test them hehehe.
As for the cable/solid question. My goal is to be able to build proto-type
motors at the lowest costs possible (I�m sponsoring Plasma Boy). On the yellow
beast / Purple Haze motor, I have around $100.00 and about 46 hours into it. I
don�t know Father Times costs and time on the aluminum plates we used to
lighten the motor, but that�s not bad to make our first variable timed motor.
My cable vs. solid question comes from the fact there is no low-tech way to
transfer the �A1� terminal to the brush ring on an adjustable brush ring,
without the use of a cable jumper in place of a solid one. As most of the
newer motors now sport cable leads in place of the older solid types, my
question was pertaining to if this was for better current draw or just ease in
manufacturing cost, and if there were any major drops in capacity comparing the
two.
Thanks again
Jim Husted
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
DC works better than AC; your experiment would have worked better if you
included a bridge rectifier. The polarity determines whether the carbon
rod or the workpiece wears away faster.
You need about 30v or more to establish a good stable arc; 12v won't
work, and 24v makes it difficult to maintain the arc.
The arc itself will have a 20-40v drop; the rest of the voltage is
dropped across whatever you are using as your series resistance. For
casual "fooling around", just use cheap jumper cables, which have steel
clamps on the ends (instead of copper) and huge thick plastic insulation
and a tiny wire inside (i.e. they are nearly useless as true jumper
cables -- just made to look good). This "resistor" will indeed dissipate
2400 watts when you short it; but you only do this briefly to start the
arc, then back off and the current drops.
The question of "what limits the current?' comes to mind. As the stick is
used, would not the resistance decrease and the current increase in
proportion?
Carbon arc welding rods are "old school", but still widely available.
They are usually copper-plated to improve conductivity.
Carbon? I was not thinking of using any carbon. Just flux coated stee.
I read that AC welds produce less slag. True?
BoyntonStu
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Compare this to using the electric motor to drive the usual
clutch-flywheel-transmission-driveshaft-differential setup which is
probably 80-90% efficient. 80% electric motor x 85% mechanical
drivetrain = 68% overall efficiency.
Lee,
Just a reminder here. 68% overall efficiency refers to the already charged
battery used in the EV.
If we consider the efficiency and losses required to:
1> Generate the electricity.
2> Deliver the electricity.
3> Charge the battery.
Our "Overall Efficiency" drops to well below 50%.
Of course there are earlier, more 'subtle' losses. Fuel exploration costs,
fuel mining costs, fuel delivery costs, etc.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could find fully charged batteries in Nature?
BoyntonStu
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--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
> I have a customer (whose CNC machining centers we look after) who is
> looking for large pieces of shim steel.
> He doesn't care where in the world it comes from, or (within reason) how
> long it takes to get it.
>
> Anyone got any contacts?
You should be able to find a supplier in this list:
http://www.thomasregisterdirectory.com/shims/shim_stock_0047490_1.html
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--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> How thick does the plating have to be? It's just to prevent
> corrosion.
The problem is that the liquid tin coating is *very* thin and it is very
likely to have pinholes that will allow corrosion to start even though
it looks pretty to start with. It is also susceptible to scratching
through easily.
If it works in your application, great; I have a solder pot, so I tin my
busbars as I believe it to produce a superior result.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > wouldn't a cable with multiple sizes of strands present more copper
> > per cross section?
>
> Yes, it can; think of it as having a smaller conductor that
> fits in the spaces between the larger ones. However, such a
> wire would be awkward to make -- I don't know if it has been
> done.
Done. George Cardas makes high end audio cables designed around his
patented "golden section" stranding (multiple conductors whose differing
gauges are related by a specific ratio to one another). This is Litz
type wire and is not made this way for higher packing density.
Eg:
<http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=products&content_id=2&pagestring
=Speaker&product_id=3>
Some more explanation of the design and references to the patent numbers
are here:
<http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=7&pagestring
=Golden+Section+Stereo+Magic>
Cheers,
Roger.
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