EV Digest 4616
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Michaela's choice, Re: Battery design
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Neon donor car
by Chris Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Another conversion...
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EV Pickups
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Snug as a Bug with a Plug
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Another conversion...
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Touch Screen Controller?
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: 2 step contactor - starting an etek
by Bruce Bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) FW: 2 golf cart motors?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Battery Interlace
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Sept. 3rd Electric Breakfast in Portland! (was woodburn)
by ROBERT RICE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: 2 step contactor - starting an etek
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
log or measure the incline to compare to the amps or watts being used.
I think logging is better done by a palm or laptop connected to the gauge.
a GPS would be nice but would skyrocket the cost. That is easier done on a
connected laptop.
Steve Paschke
Sr. Consultant
Keane, Inc.
303-607-2993 office
303-204-9280 cell
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:35 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
Here is what I like about the E-Meter:
High Importance
- low cost
- RS232 output
- fuel gauge/percentage of "full"
- settable battery capacity/Peukerts
- great technical support
Medium Importance
- high visibility of user interface in most light conditions
- battery remote temp display
Here is what I do not like about the EMeter
High Importance
- "sleep" mode power consumption is too high
-- very sensitive to installation mistakes
- Ugly user interface (80s style)
- $80 prescaler required for high voltage systems
- poor user guide
Medium Importance
- high voltage is brought into the cabin
- digital meter for instantaneous volts and amps is not too useful - better
to have fake analog
- RS232 not isolated
Things on the "wild side"
- built in GPS
- record all data for downloading after a trip
- keep track of regen
- have a "gauge" which indicates how efficient the person is driving (??)
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: August 22, 2005 6:25 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
I don't own an e-meter so can't tell what people like or dislike about it. I
know it has RS232 isolation issues, and that's all I know.
Can owners tell me what they don't like about their e-meter, how you'd
rather seeit designed or operated?
Which features are lacking and which you consider redundant?
I'm working on an alternative to an e-meter and am at the point where I can
implement changes most frequently requested.
Basically, could you create a short wish list what do you want such a gadget
to do. Don't let current design bias you - alternative can but doesn't have
to be similar.
Thanks all in advance,
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:48 AM 8/23/2005, Paschke, Stephen wrote:
I think logging is better done by a palm or laptop connected to the gauge.
a GPS would be nice but would skyrocket the cost. That is easier
done on a connected laptop.
I think the simplest logging would be done to a SD Memory card that
fits in a little slot in the meter front.
These cards have a VERY simple (3 wire?) interface that is easy to
support by most micro-controllers.
Then you could just pull the card and stick it in your computer of
choice to work with the data.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
> Someone on this list said that the components only cost about $50, and the
rest was gravy to Xantrex.
> So that leaves a lot of room for new components if you don't make a 500%
markup. <g>
The parts are only a small portion of the cost for a product. When a
company takes a risk to create a product, they invest lots of money in
design, testing, manufacturing set-up, actual manufacturing, documentation,
employee training and marketing. If they are successful, they then have to
continue with manufacturing, marketing and warranty support. Often
products fail and these costs go down the tubes.
So although some may see a lot of "gravy" for the company, it is really a
repayment of an "investment loan" and then investment dividends (profit).
Without the prospect of making a profit companies would never take the risk.
This is the "american way?" no? Often the higher the risk, the higher the
profit payback.
Nothing is ever equal. Some companies make huge profits, and others do not.
It is important to realize that Victor's new meter will probably cost him a
lot of investment capital and time up front to design, test and manufacture.
He will also want to make a profit as well. It may end up only having $50
worth of parts, but that is only a very small portion of the costs invested.
Some interesting examples to look at would be Rich's chargers or Otmar's
controllers. I wonder how much their parts cost, how much investment (time
and money) they have put into their products and **really** how much gravy
they are making. Are they making a comfortable living off of the profits?
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rush
Sent: August 23, 2005 12:38 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
Victor,
I think this is a GREAT idea.
Someone on this list said that the components only cost about $50, and the
rest was gravy to Xantrex. So that leaves a lot of room for new components
if you don't make a 500% markup. <g>
Also don't limit your thinking to EVers as the only market. The orig emeter
was, as you know, for PV users. I use a Link 1000 here in my 5th wheel that
monitors my PV batteries. It does basically the same thing as a Emeter and
talks to a 12 vdc charger/inverter and is rectangular in format. Check out
Homepower Magazine at www.homepower.com , the number one source for PV
information. I'm sure Richard Perez, the owner, would love to have a new
meter to review and hype.
You might want to contact www.outbackpower.com, they are a very forward
looking PV inverter company. They might have some good input also.
If you give your new meter a wider base, maybe it could actually come down
in price because it would appeal to other electrical systems that use meters
to monitor the in and out of electrons.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz"
Subject: Re: Michaela's choice, Re: Battery design
> Yes, I bought the truck. And yes, since we are ranchers, we need a truck.
Michela,
I am in the process of converting a S-10. I live outside of Tucson, about 3
miles, so when I go in and shop, maybe 2 times a week, the trip is 80+ miles.
I've decieded on a 180 volt pack, Trojan T-125's. They weigh 1980 lbs. My S-10
is a reg cab long bed with a GVWR of 4589 lbs. The orig curb weigh was 2874. I
figure at the most, 800 was removed so if I add on the bat pack and motor
weigh, 1980 + 200, 2180 lbs, I get 4180 lbs, which leaves (4589 - 4180) about
400 lbs as payload.
So there really isn't much left to let it perform its truck function....
I'm finding that usually conversions become transporters of lead.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a '95 Plymouth Neon here in Santa Rosa, California that would make a
good EV conversion donor car -- it's been kept in good shape, but has 150K
miles on the engine and needs transmission work. Contact me off list if you're
interested.
Chris Jones
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a 1 ton ford crew cab diesel pick up that I
will be converting. I will be recieving the motor and
controller this week. It's a 300kw system from a 30
foot bus. The motor will reside under the bed . I have
all the room from the from the hood to the back of the
cab for batteries. since this is an AC conversion, I'm
thinking that GC batteries are the way to go. any
thoughts?
It won't be a daily driver but something that I will
use for the occasional delivery or pickup. I will be
doing things to shave weight and help aero like an
aluminum bed and closing the grill. What I really want
to do with this thing is take it out and completely
blow a Hummer off the road by a mile......
Gadget
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And pickups with the batteries in the bed drive very much like having a full
load of stone in the pickup bed. My S-15 pickup I have now handles worse then
my S-10 blazer did when I sold it. In the Blazer I moved the batteries from way
in back to replace the rear seats converting it somewhat to a pickup with a
built in cap. The handling difference was huge and I no longer feared takeing a
90 degree turn at 20 mph.
The pickup I bought has the batteries right behind the cab in the bed so it not
only has no carrying power but no carrying room and a high center of gravity.
I understand it isn't a sports car but the high center of gravity really makes
commuting in texas a challenge to not hold up traffic when turning. It would be
far better to move them under the bed and have better handling and a usable bed
but I'm working on a single passenger vehicle to replace the pickup which I'm
hoping will be a little cheaper.. Probably a ev motorcycle to start.
So if anyone wants an EV pickup in the DFW, TX area that runs let me know I
might be selling it soon.
Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz"
Subject: Re: Michaela's choice, Re: Battery design
> Yes, I bought the truck. And yes, since we are ranchers, we need a truck.
Michela,
I am in the process of converting a S-10. I live outside of Tucson, about 3
miles, so when I go in and shop, maybe 2 times a week, the trip is 80+ miles.
I've decieded on a 180 volt pack, Trojan T-125's. They weigh 1980 lbs. My S-10
is a reg cab long bed with a GVWR of 4589 lbs. The orig curb weigh was 2874. I
figure at the most, 800 was removed so if I add on the bat pack and motor
weigh, 1980 + 200, 2180 lbs, I get 4180 lbs, which leaves (4589 - 4180) about
400 lbs as payload.
So there really isn't much left to let it perform its truck function....
I'm finding that usually conversions become transporters of lead.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just wrote and posted an article about Don Cameron's cool VW bug. The
car is an excellent example of a modern conversion, but that's just
part of Don's effort. The other part is his website! If you want to
know what it takes to convert a newer (1998) VW Beetle (or any car)
from gas to electric power you should read this story and visit his
website, which is one of the most informative online conversion
journals on the net.
Here's the intro...
"With today’s gasoline prices soaring at record highs, imagine the
thrill of whizzing past refueling stations in cars powered by homegrown
electricity instead of foreign oil! That's what Don Cameron of
Victoria, B.C. does everyday in his electrified VW Beetle, which uses a
300V+ battery pack coupled to a 36kw three-phase AC induction drive
system.
AC drive systems offer numerous advantages over equivalent DC systems
but until recently the induction drives were just too expensive for the
electric vehicle enthusiast crowd. AC systems may still be slightly
more expensive, but EV mavericks are already using these newly
available components to build cars that set new standards in quality
and performance..."
Read the whole story at... http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/
Also, I've got EV Shock Therapy T-Shirts on sale for just $15 now
through August 31st, 2005. They feature custom artwork based on Mark
Mongillo's Fiamp, and sale proceeds help fund my website activities...
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/store/shop/item.asp?itemid=30
Cheers,
-Dave Stensland, President
Megawatt Motorworks, Inc.
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:32 AM 8/23/2005, Reverend Gadget wrote:
I have a 1 ton ford crew cab diesel pick up that I
will be converting. I will be recieving the motor and
controller this week. It's a 300kw system from a 30
foot bus. The motor will reside under the bed . I have
all the room from the from the hood to the back of the
cab for batteries. since this is an AC conversion, I'm
thinking that GC batteries are the way to go. any
thoughts?
Oooh, sounds similar to the truck I'd like to do. (F-250 SuperCab
with 240v of GC)
With the motor under the bed, won't there still be room for some
batteries to either side of it?
Do you think there is actually enough clearance to put batteries under the cab?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Depends on the touch screen -- only the capacitive sort requires a real
finger. Summarized on this page:
http://www.protouch-uk.co.uk/touchscreens_explained/technologies.html
The ones my former employer used were the SAW variety. The screens
themselves were the plain glass of a normal CRT with an almost
imperceptable sheet covering it. They worked well.
Danny Miller wrote:
Another touch screen issue is that these won't work with gloves on.
They don't use force, they require touch.
I agree about looking away from the road, that's a significant issue.
Danny
Mark Farver wrote:
Touch screens are cool and I've used my fair share of them, but in a
car it is often important to be able to operate controls without
looking away from the road. Consider moving the most needed
controls to physical switches or adding touch and audible cues to the
system.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ISOLATED Analog outputs of volts / amps / soc % for driving real
guages. Maybe even make a version that is less $$$, and has no display
of it's own.
High speed data output via RS232 / USB of raw actual sampled data used
by the meter, for logging and algorithm tweaking, as well as coloumb
counting and aggregate data output.
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I don't own an e-meter so can't tell what people like or dislike
about it. I know it has RS232 isolation issues, and that's all I
know.
Can owners tell me what they don't like about their e-meter,
how you'd rather seeit designed or operated?
Which features are lacking and which you consider redundant?
I'm working on an alternative to an e-meter and am at the
point where I can implement changes most frequently requested.
Basically, could you create a short wish list what do you
want such a gadget to do. Don't let current design bias you -
alternative can but doesn't have to be similar.
Thanks all in advance,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark - At present, how is power applied to the motor? By way of a
controller, simply a contactor or something else? - Bruce Bailey
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Hastings
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:20 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: 2 step contactor - starting an etek
I found a message about starting a treadmill motor first with a 1ohm
resistor and then switching on the main contactor to short out the resistor
to be a softer start on the motor.
I have an etek in my garden tractor and would like to do the same. It is
wired at 43.2 volts. I have a bunch of 10 watt resistors that are one ohm so
they are free.
I was thinking of paralleling two pairs in series which would in my head
give me a 40 watt 1 ohm resistor? It would only be on for a second but is 1
ohm a good value for starting an etek at this voltage?
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan, thanks for the offer :-)
I can afford to buy one if I need to inspect it, also
a friend of mine offered me to borrow it if I want to look
closer and see it in operation. No problem.
It could be useful experience, but I'm also an EVer and know
first hand what I want from such a gadget, no need to have
e-meter for that. The only reason I asked people so I know
what they don't like about e-meter. If I'd have one, I might
like something what most people don't, so I'd still have to
solisit opinions.
Thanks for the input,
Victor
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Victor wrote:
Can owners tell me what they don't like about their e-meter,
how you'd rather see it designed or operated?
I don't own one yet either, but from all I've read about it, it seems
like a finicky, fickle, delicate device. It's also some what
expensive. Just how accurate is it anyways?
I want one that is robust and low cost.
Basically, it just needs to work properly and not get zapped if I
don't install it or remove it using the right wire sequence. I charge
up the pack and the e meter says its full. I drive around and it
accurately tells me how much charge I have left in the pack.
With the Link 10, it seems like that's not always the case? Doubts
about if the pack is *really* fully charged or not(due to the meter's
various settings).
So I set the Link 10 to what size pack I have, and it measures power
in, and power out?
Seems simple enough...
There seems to be one major deficiency it can't deal with though..
Something about if the pack is only partly discharged and it gets
recharged and the meter needing to be reset manually? Or is it
something else? Anyone know? It's some situation that causes the
Link 10 to need to be manually reset because of said event.
Pick one up Victor and get some first hand experience with one before
your new one causes the Link 10 to be obsolete. Make yours correct
all the shortcomings the Link 10 currently has.
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/index.php?id=434
If I had $200 - $300 extra dollars, I would personally buy one for you.
Maybe someone who is sympathetic will sell you one at cost?
"If you need it, we can build it."
http://www.westach.com/custom.htm
http://www.westach.com/
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu or Jan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 9:31 AM
To: EV (ev@listproc.sjsu.edu)
Subject: FW: 2 golf cart motors?
-----Original Message-----
From: Stu or Jan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 9:03 AM
To: 'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'
Subject: RE: 2 golf cart motors?
This is for a 2F1R hybrid. The engine is on one side of the driving wheel
(rear).
For weight balance and for space, I cannot use the 2 motors shaft to shaft.
How 'bout this idea on how to connect 2 GC motors?
Connect 2 motors side to side using 2 sprockets and a chain.
motor(:::::::::::::::::)motor
On the motor nearest the sprocket that needs to be driven, mount another
sprocket and connect the output using that second sprocket and a chain.
(:::::::::::::::(::)::::::::::::::::::::::)wheel
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tony Godshall
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:54 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: 2 golf cart motors?
I would use it as an opportunity to establish two fully
redundant drive systems. That way if you have a breakdown
in one, you can still limp off the freeway. Plus you
shorten linkages etc.
According to jerry dycus,
> Hi Stu and All,
>
> Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Would 2 golf cart motors be viable as an alternative to a single large
motor
> to power a 1,500 pound vehicle at 45 mph?
>
>
> Yes if you don't expect fast acceleration and gear them
correctly. I use a 3.5hp GEGC motor that came from a Citi-car that powers my
E woody fairly well at those speeds. So 2- 2.2hp GC in series/parallel will
do you alright. I'm using 2 ES22 D+D motors which are basicly A-89's, larger
GC motors.
>
>
> If so, how would you connect them mechanically to drive a chain sprocket?
>
> I like face to face unless they are double shaft though as
probably 98% of them are timed neutural it doesn't matter which way you turn
them. I'd use a common sprocket to connect them.
>
>
> How would you control them and electrically connect them?
>
> The same way any other is though you have an option of
series/paralleling them for more starting torque, another speed if you go
for a contactor controller. Reverse can be tricky with S/P wiring.
> HTH's,
>
> Jerry Dycus
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--
Best Regards,
Tony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don, great input! Let me comment what is done and what is
planned so you and others can suggest further. Please keep
your ideas flowing, this is your gadget. IF you don't speak up,
you won't get what you want!
Don Cameron wrote:
Here is what I like about the E-Meter:
High Importance
- low cost
Will try, depends on the rest of this list :-)
- RS232 output
done
- fuel gauge/percentage of "full"
done
- settable battery capacity/Peukerts
done
- great technical support
You'll be the judge. There is something of a little
importance to you - I need to take care of overseas custoemrs
support too.
Medium Importance
- high visibility of user interface in most light conditions
Is your preference LEDs or LCD?
IF you want 2 (say, 7-segmet LED) displays,
do you mind to have digits smaller or you'd rather have
the face bigger?
Do you want to keep it round or square (BRUSA style) is OK?
Do you think most people would install it into the
instrument cluster (so remote buttons needed) or into/onto
the dash?
- battery remote temp display
Easy. How many points?
Here is what I do not like about the EMeter
High Importance
- "sleep" mode power consumption is too high
Does it currently sleep with LEDs ON?
-- very sensitive to installation mistakes
Don't know about this one. I only have 12V house power
to be connected, that's it.
- Ugly user interface (80s style)
In what respect? Can you elaborate?
- $80 prescaler required for high voltage systems
As BRUSA front end, mine covers 15...500V in one shot.
- poor user guide
I'll let you edit it, OK? :-)
Medium Importance
- high voltage is brought into the cabin
Taken care of.
- digital meter for instantaneous volts and amps is not too useful - better
to have fake analog
Done (24 LEDs configurable analog bar).
- RS232 not isolated
Taken care of.
Things on the "wild side"
- built in GPS
Option - taken care of.
- record all data for downloading after a trip
Done. ~2 weeks worth of live data.
- keep track of regen
Done, there is no distinction between regen and charging as
far as the gadget is concerned. Just tracks Ah in and out.
- have a "gauge" which indicates how efficient the person is driving (??)
Done
Victoria, BC, Canada
Cool! Thanks Don.
Anyone else?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
My wish list:
A robust and positive electrical connector not subject to vibration like
the Link 10/E meter set screws.
Would you rather have wiring coming out of the meter and have in-line
connector somewhere under dash, or you want the connector pluggable
directly into the gadget?
The ability to drive a conventional analog fuel gage so the uninitiated
can drive the EV.
done. Drives two external analog gauges (on top if having its own).
The ability to be interfaced with the speedometer/odometer pulse signal
to then display miles remaining at current state of charge at current
rate of discharge.
Done. What kind of speed sensors these are? Do speedometrers send out
12V pulses?
The ability to retain stage of charge info even if the power supply is
interrupted for a short period of time (say less than five minutes).
done. Stored in non-volatile memory anyway.
Remote the display/interface portion from the high voltage portion to
insure isolation and keep high voltage circuits out of the passenger
compartment.
done.
If interface to palm or laptop is included or optional, move up to the
more common USB or perhaps wireless rather than the now obsolete serial
port.
Currently there are two ways: RS232 for those who want to use it
(everyone can), also logging onto SD card which you pop out and stick to
your computer so no linking of any kind needed.
An over-ridable low charge cutoff circuit to disable or cutback the
controller of the EV if the battery voltage or state of charge is too low.
1 or 2 conditional "alarm" outputs (can't remember) you can use for that.
Installation safe hookup so reversing a connection only causes it to not
work until corrected rather than causing smoke to escape.
Will strive for that.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
Thanks Mike, good list!
Anyone else?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not certain how do you want to see whatsis being logged.
In my case, everything displayable is being logged (~ 10 parameters).
Victor
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
on all the data logging programs I've seen that the e meter and newer
version use , when using them you can't see what your logging without
stopping the logger watch can't be started once stopped . So if you want
to see what's been recorded while its happening you can't .
----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:25 PM
Subject: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
I don't own an e-meter so can't tell what people like or dislike
about it. I know it has RS232 isolation issues, and that's all I
know.
Can owners tell me what they don't like about their e-meter,
how you'd rather seeit designed or operated?
Which features are lacking and which you consider redundant?
I'm working on an alternative to an e-meter and am at the
point where I can implement changes most frequently requested.
Basically, could you create a short wish list what do you
want such a gadget to do. Don't let current design bias you -
alternative can but doesn't have to be similar.
Thanks all in advance,
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Joe,
Joe Smalley wrote:
1) Reverse voltage tolerant. It doesn't need to work. It just needs to
survive being miswired.
Reverse pack voltage, or gadget power (or I suppose both)?
2) Connector on the back so the wiring harness can be disconnected. I hate
those tiny screws.
How often do you unplug emeter once it's installed?
I prefer sealed enclosure with harness, connectors inline.
3) Prescaler includes a small DC/DC converter appropriate for the pack
voltage. Examples would be 6 to 36, 24 to 72, 48 to 120, 96 to 240, 150 to
400. It may be possible to design a DC/DC to cover the entire range with a
single device.
There is no "prescaler" in my case, it takes 15-500V directly and
integrated isolated DC-DC converter supplies logic with power
off of the pack voltage. Takes 1...5 mA from the pack.
4) Isolated digital data output port.
Everyone wants it! Done, but semultaneous logging onto SD card
makes this not so relevant.
5) Some sort of event counter that can be used (like an odometer) to
indicate 'work performed'.
Which events would you like to count?
6) Non-volatile memory to remember where it was before a power outage. This
makes getting it synchronized to the pack easier after a service or
maintenance event.
done
7) Lower standby current when sleeping.
It is always lower, question is how much lower :-)
Will see what it will do.
8) Use a common 10K NTC thermistor to sense temperature.
PTC silicon sensors are ised.
9) Output an optocoupled PWM signal with the duty cycle proportional to the
state of charge. The user can then apply a filter and resistors necessary to
match their fuel gauge.
done. 2 PWM outputs are user assignable to any value they want
analog gauge to display (volts, amps, Ah, Wh, watts, temp, etc).
10) Ability to set the setup parameters through the digital data port.
done - there is small PC application for it.
Joe Smalley
Good input Joe! Expert's opinions count!
Anyone else?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Thanks Rick, this is done too after talking with people on Portland
EV awareness day.
Anything else?
Rick Barnes wrote:
Has anyone mentioned this:
It would be nice to be able to remotely mount the buttons on the eMeter.
This would allow dash instrument panel mount, and move the control buttons
to the steering wheel for example.
Rick Barnes
Aloha, OR
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Matthew Trevaskis wrote:
Apart from not having a "miles remaining" estimate the set-up works very
well. (I reset the trip odometer at each full charge - nearly as good!)
Matt
Thanks Matt,
I will have miles remaining readout, but the accuracy depends on the
user inputting battery info correctly.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Victor (or any other TS owner). To make all my TS cells fit in their box, I
need to be able to get six across, but the space is 1/4 inch too short. I
was wonder if there would be any harm in interlacing the sides of the
batteries like this:
http://www.users.qwest.net/~denniswilliamsha/BatteryWeb.jpg
The batteries lie on their sides, 3 deep (I verified with Thundersky that
this was okay), and will of course have plates above and below. Thanks.
Bill Dennis
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Not sure about this one, but can be done.
GPS module is not terribly accurate measuring altitudes.
This needs to be tested. A GPS engines aren't as expensive as you
might think.
Victor
Paschke, Stephen wrote:
log or measure the incline to compare to the amps or watts being used.
I think logging is better done by a palm or laptop connected to the gauge.
a GPS would be nice but would skyrocket the cost. That is easier done on a
connected laptop.
Steve Paschke
Sr. Consultant
Keane, Inc.
303-607-2993 office
303-204-9280 cell
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Victor,
What's your time frame for producing these? Do you have a target cost? I'm
going to be in the market for an e-meter in the next couple of months.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 10:50:54 -0700
Subject: Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
Matthew Trevaskis wrote:
> Apart from not having a "miles remaining" estimate the set-up works very
> well. (I reset the trip odometer at each full charge - nearly as good!)
> > Matt
Thanks Matt,
I will have miles remaining readout, but the accuracy depends on the user
inputting battery info correctly.
-- Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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At best a working prototype will be reagy in a couple of month.
This is lower priority thing for me, the idea came up because
it is a "bi-product" of the BMS - the main BMS engine and SOCM
(state of charge monitor) modules comprise everything such a gadget
need, and it's beed developed already.
The timing depends on the programmer I work with.
The cost will be higher than e-meters but less than double.
(the hardware cost alone is about the same as e-meter's cost).
But with high enough volume it can get close, and with 5x features
can displace e-meter entirely. Will see. I don't want to loose
focus on the BMS which is awated for a long time too.
Victor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Victor,
What's your time frame for producing these? Do you have a target
cost? I'm going to be in the market for an e-meter in the next couple
of months.
Steve
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Physical interface to the SD card is simple. Writing FAT16 file system
on the card and the driver for your uP is not trivial and
requires some programming skills. That's the tricky part (you don't
have to use FAT16, but then it is not easily readable by a PC
or MAC). I myself don't do the software part.
Victor
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
I think the simplest logging would be done to a SD Memory card that fits
in a little slot in the meter front.
These cards have a VERY simple (3 wire?) interface that is easy to
support by most micro-controllers.
Then you could just pull the card and stick it in your computer of
choice to work with the data.
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John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello to All,
You are figuring wrong. Even if things go bang the night before, I've
still gotta eat!
Hope to see everyone next weekend!
Hi John an' All;
Working my way West as I rite this, library in Colorado. SHOULD make the
Portland scene for THE weekend. Plan on bunking down at the Monta Villa Motel
as usual.A few E scooter blocks from the EV Wayland Central.
Seeya There
Bob......... Scooter at least!
See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
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GPS isn't really expensive. Actually building in the capability to read
NMEA-0183 from almost any GPS you already own is easy.
GPS altitude is the least accurate axis, it's still quite accurate and
is still good for relative accuracy- that is, climb rate is fairly accurate.
Reading an external GPS will require taking up a hardware serial port.
This may be a problem if only one serial port is available since you
need that for the Palm/laptop link.
Danny
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Not sure about this one, but can be done.
GPS module is not terribly accurate measuring altitudes.
This needs to be tested. A GPS engines aren't as expensive as you
might think.
Victor
Paschke, Stephen wrote:
log or measure the incline to compare to the amps or watts being used.
I think logging is better done by a palm or laptop connected to the
gauge.
a GPS would be nice but would skyrocket the cost. That is easier
done on a connected laptop.
Steve Paschke
Sr. Consultant
Keane, Inc.
303-607-2993 office
303-204-9280 cell
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At 11:14 AM 8/23/2005, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Physical interface to the SD card is simple. Writing FAT16 file system
on the card and the driver for your uP is not trivial and
requires some programming skills. That's the tricky part (you don't
have to use FAT16, but then it is not easily readable by a PC
or MAC). I myself don't do the software part.
Writing isn't that bad, especially if you don't need to handle the
general case, just the specific case of what your controller does.
You can also buy pre-written FAT file system code.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 06:20:22 -0700 (PDT), Mark Hastings
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I found a message about starting a treadmill motor first with a 1ohm resistor
>and then switching on the main contactor to short out the resistor to be a
>softer start on the motor.
>I have an etek in my garden tractor and would like to do the same. It is wired
>at 43.2 volts. I have a bunch of 10 watt resistors that are one ohm so they
>are free.
>I was thinking of paralleling two pairs in series which would in my head give
>me a 40 watt 1 ohm resistor? It would only be on for a second but is 1 ohm a
>good value for starting an etek at this voltage?
Do the simple math. Let's assume you want to limit the starting
current to 200 amps. 43.2/200 = 0.216 total ohms. To be technically
correct, one should add the internal resistance of the battery but for
this we'll ignore it. Subtract the motor resistance and the
resistance of the wiring, switch(s), shunt if present and you have
your limiting resistor value.
The best way to measure the resistances is the Kelvin 4 wire method.
Pass a known current through the unknown and measure the voltage drop
across the unknown via a second set of non-current carrying leads. A
sealed beam headlight and a 12 volt source makes a good almost
constant current source of about 5 amps. A high quality DVM with 10
or 20 amp and mv capabilities will do the job.
I'd not fool around mounting a bunch of resistors. An appropriate
length of iron "jerryrigging" wire from the hardware store will do
just fine. So will heavier gauge stainless steel wire, MIG wire, for
example. Without consulting wire tables, I'd guess that enough 14 or
16 ga wire to wrap around the bypass relay will do the job. Just
"short" the bypass contacts with the iron or stainless steel wire. Put
some fiberglass sleeving over it to protect it from contact with
grounded objects and there you go.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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On Aug 22, 2005, at 6:25 PM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I'm working on an alternative to an e-meter and am at the
point where I can implement changes most frequently requested.
Please don't include the wimpy set screw connector the e-meter uses. If
set screws are the most practical they should allow at least 18 gauge
wires and be of a type that also supports the wire insulation. The
e-meter wiring system is not really suitable for the vibration of an
automotive environment.
I would prefer LCD display and backlighting that can be controlled
separately (either with the light system, or when turning on the car.)
It would be good to have an enable line so the display could be off
when the car is off.
Please eliminate the need for a separate DC to DC converter, if its
needs one please build that into the unit.
Having a remote box and a smaller (good size display but not so much to
stuff behind the dash) would be a help. Mounting of the dash unit needs
to remain easy - the e-meter is easy to mount after you find a location
with suitable depth.
The ability to drive the stock warning indicator lights would be a
plus. The ability to drive the stock fuel gauge would be great (though
difficult as I'm sure there are many different requirements.)
If it was able to watch for any low battery (instead of just pack
voltage) that would be great.
Some way to talk back to a charger when all the amp hours have been
returned or the voltage is to high or one battery is at to high a
voltage. Of course the e-meter can do this and I don't think very many
people take advantage of it.
Just some thoughts,
Paul
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