EV Digest 4617
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Michaela's choice, Re: Battery design
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Confusing arising
by Pascal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EVision: Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: 2 step contactor - starting an etek
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Zilla Backorders
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Todd DC/DC Converter
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 2 step contactor - starting an etek
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Battery Interlace
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Michaela's choice, Re: Battery design
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Confusing arising (Direct Drive and Transaxle)
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: E-9 PG&E rates in California
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 2 step contactor - starting an etek
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Confusing arising
by Pascal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Another conversion...
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Subaru magazine.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) PFC Ground and Pack Negative (was RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PF)
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela,
IMHO I am going to disagree with Jerry on the issues of an S-10. I think if
you like the S-10 and it fits your needs and budget, then go with it. The
truck has a long proven record of EV conversions. Not only the E-10s but
the factory S-10s as well as the conversions. A mid 90s version is light
weight as far as trucks go and much nicer looking than the 80s. The bed is
easily modified to lift up so you can put batteries between the frame.
There is plenty of room in the engine compartment for additional batteries
and electric drive stuff. And as far as aerodynamics, the S-10 mid 90s
versions are better than most. Put a canvas cover over the bed and you cut
drag sufficiently. The frame on these trucks is robust as far as small
trucks go and the suspension can be modified easily. I can slide under mine
without even jacking it up! It is a versatile and easily modifiable truck.
I wish you well!
I know Jerry is fond of small lightweight commuters to fit his mold and
those cars certainly have a place in the EV world. I'm not trying to dis
Jerry at all. They just don't always fit in the needs of the general daily
driver. If you want versatility in vehicle platform and use, (commuter and
errand running) you can't go wrong with a small truck and the S-10 seems to
be the truck of choice. Moreover, with the S-10, you have a proven platform
that can be easily repaired if you have a problem with the truck (fender
bender).
I agree with Jerry about batteries. If you go with NiCads, you will not
have the power of an AGM. You will have 3X the life and longer distance per
pound, but you won't be smokin the tires too much. But if you want the long
life bats, go for BB600s or something like a Saft 6v flooded system. If you
noticed Seth Allen's previous post on his NiCads, they are from 1981 and
still running I infer from his posting. That's 24 years! There is a lot of
potential maintenance and other issues with that many small batteries, but
if you want them, then you should go for it. Just be aware of the down side
as well. If you want to go for AGM or sealed batteries and a set of
regulators, do it. I think you will have good luck and Realistically
reasonable distance with a 156v parallel pack of batteries with good
acceleration when needed and reasonable service life of the bats if you
spring for regs and a decent charger.
Just my opinion.
Jeff Wilson
USA(Ret)
2 E-10s
-----Original Message-----
From: jerry dycus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:59 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Michaela's choice, Re: Battery design
Hi Michaela and All,
Have you bought the truck yet? If not, unless you need a
pick up it is a more costly way to go as it is too heavy, not aero and the
amount of battery, cost is directly proportional to weight, air, rolling
drag. And bigger pickups are hit in all 3!!
If you must have a pick-up, try to find a good older one
that weighs much less like the early 80's S10, or other older, lighter pick
ups. A good choice would be a Rabbit pick up if you can find one. You maybe
able to buy one already built!!
Better would be a light, aero car if it will suit your
needs. You can use a trailer to haul big stuff rather than buy a heavy truck
and it's twice as expensive EV drive, batts it needs for a given range,
speed..
A big truck also will not be a good fit for ni-cads as the
costs get rather high and acceleration low. A small. light one though would
be good with them. This is why I asked you before what kind of EV you were
going to make.
Could you tell us just what you are going to do, range,
speed profile needed for your EV so we can give you better advice? EV's
are a system that needs to be designed together as a unit. first lets get
your mission, then chose the vehicle is a much smarter way to go with EV's.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor, one other thing comes to mind. If this thing has a computer and
memory it would be great to make battery programming easier. A lookup
table for the battery instead entering the Peukert's exponent and amp
hour capacity.
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Paul, input taken. To watch for individual batteries
you need something to read off of per battery. A BMS will do that,
but, sorry, the e-meter cannot.
Victor
Paul G. wrote:
On Aug 22, 2005, at 6:25 PM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I'm working on an alternative to an e-meter and am at the
point where I can implement changes most frequently requested.
Please don't include the wimpy set screw connector the e-meter uses. If
set screws are the most practical they should allow at least 18 gauge
wires and be of a type that also supports the wire insulation. The
e-meter wiring system is not really suitable for the vibration of an
automotive environment.
I would prefer LCD display and backlighting that can be controlled
separately (either with the light system, or when turning on the car.)
It would be good to have an enable line so the display could be off when
the car is off.
Please eliminate the need for a separate DC to DC converter, if its
needs one please build that into the unit.
Having a remote box and a smaller (good size display but not so much to
stuff behind the dash) would be a help. Mounting of the dash unit needs
to remain easy - the e-meter is easy to mount after you find a location
with suitable depth.
The ability to drive the stock warning indicator lights would be a plus.
The ability to drive the stock fuel gauge would be great (though
difficult as I'm sure there are many different requirements.)
If it was able to watch for any low battery (instead of just pack
voltage) that would be great.
Some way to talk back to a charger when all the amp hours have been
returned or the voltage is to high or one battery is at to high a
voltage. Of course the e-meter can do this and I don't think very many
people take advantage of it.
Just some thoughts,
Paul
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I am a bit confused. First I read Chris his message
that I could use 'direct drive' but later I read in
the message send by Bruce that I could use a VW Bug
transaxle.
In my thinking 'direct drive' means that the Electric
motor is directly connected to the rear-axle, but
following the advice giving by Bruce I will have a
rear- and a trans-axle (so I must use the clutch and
the 4-gear transmission)
What is the best way to handle this, Looking at the
plans of the UrbaCar, back in those days they used a
couple of chains running over 48 teeth sprockets
mounted on the rear-axle.
Just asking, because I am making a shoppinglist first,
buy parts later as needed and then finally can start
my 'little' project.
thx all
Pascal
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you read my reply to someone (I think to Otmar), I mentioned
there is a small PC application - you can preconfigure the gadget
on the PC and download it either via RS232 or jsut store it
on the SD card and it will use it.
Issue is, who is going to provide data for look up tables?
THere is enough collective knowledge here to come up wuth them at
least for the most common batteries. Any place where I can see the
data formalized?
Victor
Paul G. wrote:
Victor, one other thing comes to mind. If this thing has a computer and
memory it would be great to make battery programming easier. A lookup
table for the battery instead entering the Peukert's exponent and amp
hour capacity.
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:45 AM 8/23/2005, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Thanks Paul, input taken. To watch for individual batteries
you need something to read off of per battery. A BMS will do that,
but, sorry, the e-meter cannot.
Well, there is this little item that I've put together....
http://www.casadelgato.com/CasaDelGatoSystems/index_files/Page451.htm
I'm currently starting to test these.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We know that, it is up to the programmer to decide whatis easier -
buy someone else's code and adapt to what we need, or write one
from scratch or pay originator to modify his code.
One way or the other it will be done. These things, as Don mentioned,
are where most the money go, not into the hardware!
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
Writing isn't that bad, especially if you don't need to handle the
general case, just the specific case of what your controller does.
You can also buy pre-written FAT file system code.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear all,
Forgot to mention - official name of the gadget is
"EVision". My web site will soon have preliminary
specs and description of it, compared to link-10.
Please refer to this gadget by that name, so I can
recognize it and responses are filtered to the right
mail box instead of the trash can :-)
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a relay to switch on some 12awg wire and a relay to switch on 4awg wire.
No controller or anything just batteries wire and a motor.
The motor runs constant speed all the time.
Bruce Bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mark - At present, how is power applied to the motor? By way of a
controller, simply a contactor or something else? - Bruce Bailey
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Hastings
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:20 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: 2 step contactor - starting an etek
I found a message about starting a treadmill motor first with a 1ohm
resistor and then switching on the main contactor to short out the resistor
to be a softer start on the motor.
I have an etek in my garden tractor and would like to do the same. It is
wired at 43.2 volts. I have a bunch of 10 watt resistors that are one ohm so
they are free.
I was thinking of paralleling two pairs in series which would in my head
give me a 40 watt 1 ohm resistor? It would only be on for a second but is 1
ohm a good value for starting an etek at this voltage?
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for your interest.
Actually the pilot shaft you are seeing turns in rotation with the hub, so it
is only a "guide" hole in the hub for alignment. In a clutch vehicle
apparently they put a bushing because the flywheel and clutch disk are
separated during shifts.
My transaxle uses 4 solenoids, one of which controls the locking torque
converter. There are various shift points programmed into the computer system
that can be changed for winter driving, sport mode, etc. Most of the time I
plan to force a lockup on the TC and run in 1 or 2, but never in full automatic
mode since it will attempt to shift around 2000 rpms. I have been driving the
wife's car (chevy malibu) and determining approximate speeds vs rpms and figure
that one is similar. Some of my best friends are former service writers and
techs that have worked with major dealerships and tell me the modern automatics
are a lot better. I think most people are afraid of them for the reasons you
mention, like the electronic controls. Believe me I had plenty of fears of my
own entering the project. Now I am certain it will eventually work out...fear
of unknown..always scary.
I did consider for a while having the TC cut apart and the turbines welded, but
felt it would cause a lot of possible problems with balance, sealing, etc. and
decided against that option.
Yes, you could power the hydraulics with some sort of electric pump (another
drain on the batteries), but I plan to idle mine at 300 rpms to run the PS and
Air Conditioning anyway, so the pressure will always be there. Nor do I want
any jerking when it goes into gear. My particular needs for 30 or 35 miles
156v battery pack, Zilla controller and 2900 lb car should be met, and the
small loss out of a very efficiently designed automatic should be minimal. If I
need different shift points, I will use the factory spec table I have for the
solenoids and force one or more to shift when I need it. Much better than an
old vacuum operated system.
I also believe my cruise control will still work, since I plan to mount the pot
box onto a rack with the old throttle body, complete with it's return springs,
throttle position sensor and hookup for the cruise control cable. I should
lose very little of the "nice" stuff the car has in the conversion.
The not so nice stuff like oil, gas, polution, and the ICE itself, will of
course be gone for good :-)
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
> From: "Ray Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2005/08/23 Tue AM 09:06:38 EST
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: Re: Zilla Backorders
>
> Mark,
> I checked out your 'saab blog' and had some comments.
> The torque converter does require a pilot bushing to support it at the
> front. That is what the long snout does.
>
> I have been contemplating auto trans use for EV's. Unfortunately I know just
> enough about automatic trans to be dangerous [ a little bit of knowledge is
> a dangerous thing :) ]. My concept is to eliminate the torque converter
> completely and create a drive spindle that solidly hooks the motor shaft to
> the transmission's oil pump and input shaft.. What would be required is a
> separate, electric hyd pump [ your PS pump?? ] to provide pressure to the
> transmission while the motor is not running. This electric pump could be
> shut off when the internal trans pump gets up to speed.
>
> To drive the car you would select the gear you want with the shifter. The
> clutch pack or band for this gear would be applied via the pressure supplied
> by the electric pump. Once you hit the throttle and move away the internal
> pump would then take over the hyd chore and the electric would shut off.
> The trans would then shift up and down as needed until you came to a stop
> and then the electric pump would take over again.
>
> The question is how much current does the internal pump draw and how much
> more internal drag does the auto trans have vs. a manual tranny? In high
> gear [ not OD ] the auto is direct drive similar to the manual so there
> would not be much difference there.
>
> A lot of older automatics used a vacuum modulator to control part throttle
> shifting and a kickdown linkage for 'passing gear'. Chry Torqueflites used
> the kickdown linkage but no vacuum modulator. It is also possible to modify
> the valve body in an auto trans to make it fully manual as is done in drag
> racing. I just don't know if it is possible to make this conversion without
> also have the trans shift so hard that it would make your neck hurt.
>
> A computer controlled tranny is totally out of my realm of experience as to
> whether it would be possible to make it shift properly in an ev. You would
> probably need a throttle position sensor, tach sensor and vehicle speed
> sensor at the very least .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 12:27 AM
> Subject: Re: Zilla Backorders
>
>
> > That scares me a bit since the Zilla 1K is the controller I need!
> >
> > Hope the problem is resolved soon! Might have to look at a Zapi instead.
> >
> > Mark Ward
> > St. Charles, MO
> > 95 Saab 900SE
> > www.saabrina.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ricky Suiter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: Zilla Backorders
> >
> >
> > >I think Otmar has been getting a lot of orders lately. I waited about 2
> > >months in I think May when his first batch of machined pieces came back
> > >from the fabrication shop not to specs and then he had to wait for them
> > >again to fix the problem and I think he found a different place to make
> > >them. All in all I think it will be worth the wait (my EV's going to run
> > >very soon). Above anything I know the controller itself is great, but the
> > >Hair Ball is what is the real deal maker because it gives you such a nice
> > >little interface to hook everything to.
> > >
> > > And FYI, I think Otmar is like me and replies to emails a lot quicker
> than
> > > phone messages (note his quick reply here). He always answers emails
> > > generally within hours.
> > >
> > > Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Is it true there is like a 2 months backorder or wait time for the 1k
> > > Zilla Controllers ? WOW! There has to be somewhere that has them in
> > > stock now...
> > >
> > > Evsource hasnt returned my calls at all, has anyone dealt with these
> guys
> > > ?
> > >
> > > CWarman
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Later,
> > > Ricky
> > > 02 Red Insight #559
> > > 92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 23, 2005, at 2:01 AM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
Who made this thing? What's the history on it? Is it still being
made? Where can it be bought?
[snip]
What is it anyways? It looks like a PC power supply? Was it the best
DC/DC converter ever made?
How hard is it to make a current, modern DC/DC that meets today's
higher voltage needs? Is anybody working on one?
It was built by Todd Engineering. It was most popular as a motor home
or trailer power supply. Unfortunately my parents tossed out a PC-40
when it failed in their trailer in AZ. I was disappointed as they are
not hard to fix. Todd came out with newer models based on a voltage
doubler input. To operate on DC they require more voltage that most
EVs.
Most EVers want the "LV" (low voltage) models of Todd as they work down
to less than 95 volts DC input. They look like they are safe up to 200
volts DC. The standard Todds need a higher minimum DC voltage to work
correctly (I don't know, perhaps 120 vdc.)
They are not the "best", but they where inexpensive and they did their
job reliably. You could choose between various models from 20 amps to
over 40 amps. They could fail from getting wet or from low input
voltage (especially with little load.) When they let the smoke out it
was usually either a MOSFET or diode (easy fix.)
There is a shortage of choices for EV DC to DC converters today.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wouldn't I want it a lot lower then 200 amps for the motor or is 200 amps ok?
If so I could easily use a couple resistors that I have to keep it at 200 or a
little lower I was targeting 50 but maybe that is too low. I have a box for the
resistors and a heatsink already so I might try that rather then doing
mig/jerry/stainless wire and fiberglass.
I previously had the whole thing wired with only 10awg wire and it started
pretty hard though 10awg was much to small so I think it lowered the quick
starting. Now I have nice busbars and 4awg and I fear the longevity of my motor
but want to avoid getting a controller for the 2 seconds I spin up the motor if
possible.
Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 06:20:22 -0700 (PDT), Mark Hastings
wrote:
>I found a message about starting a treadmill motor first with a 1ohm resistor
>and then switching on the main contactor to short out the resistor to be a
>softer start on the motor.
>I have an etek in my garden tractor and would like to do the same. It is wired
>at 43.2 volts. I have a bunch of 10 watt resistors that are one ohm so they
>are free.
>I was thinking of paralleling two pairs in series which would in my head give
>me a 40 watt 1 ohm resistor? It would only be on for a second but is 1 ohm a
>good value for starting an etek at this voltage?
Do the simple math. Let's assume you want to limit the starting
current to 200 amps. 43.2/200 = 0.216 total ohms. To be technically
correct, one should add the internal resistance of the battery but for
this we'll ignore it. Subtract the motor resistance and the
resistance of the wiring, switch(s), shunt if present and you have
your limiting resistor value.
The best way to measure the resistances is the Kelvin 4 wire method.
Pass a known current through the unknown and measure the voltage drop
across the unknown via a second set of non-current carrying leads. A
sealed beam headlight and a 12 volt source makes a good almost
constant current source of about 5 amps. A high quality DVM with 10
or 20 amp and mv capabilities will do the job.
I'd not fool around mounting a bunch of resistors. An appropriate
length of iron "jerryrigging" wire from the hardware store will do
just fine. So will heavier gauge stainless steel wire, MIG wire, for
example. Without consulting wire tables, I'd guess that enough 14 or
16 ga wire to wrap around the bypass relay will do the job. Just
"short" the bypass contacts with the iron or stainless steel wire. Put
some fiberglass sleeving over it to protect it from contact with
grounded objects and there you go.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm already using my project to monitor my van's deep cycle with a
graphical LCD display. It's a commerically mfg'ed board but a handmade
case though. I'd need to modify the power input to completely isolate
the shunt's ADC power, I've done component selection and drawn up
schematics for it.
Actually the ADC is not performing within the specified limit. I have
an offset error on the order of 90 mA that won't go away despite my best
efforts, I'm going to talk to the component mfg on this. I don't think
it would apply to the EV model because the ADC will be at the shunt and
I think the lead length was the issue.
IMHO being bootloadable is extremely important. This allows the
firmware to be upgraded so new features can be added at a later date, or
a device can be customized or adapted to a new use.
Danny
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
We know that, it is up to the programmer to decide whatis easier -
buy someone else's code and adapt to what we need, or write one
from scratch or pay originator to modify his code.
One way or the other it will be done. These things, as Don mentioned,
are where most the money go, not into the hardware!
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
Writing isn't that bad, especially if you don't need to handle the
general case, just the specific case of what your controller does.
You can also buy pre-written FAT file system code.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The groves are made for the air passage for adequate cooling.
In this arranglent the sides don't get cooling.
Not a good idea, but doable if you don't plan to stress your cells
and have no other option.
Victor
Bill Dennis wrote:
Victor (or any other TS owner). To make all my TS cells fit in their box, I
need to be able to get six across, but the space is 1/4 inch too short. I
was wonder if there would be any harm in interlacing the sides of the
batteries like this:
http://www.users.qwest.net/~denniswilliamsha/BatteryWeb.jpg
The batteries lie on their sides, 3 deep (I verified with Thundersky that
this was okay), and will of course have plates above and below. Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
IMHO being bootloadable is extremely important. This allows the
firmware to be upgraded so new features can be added at a later date, or
a device can be customized or adapted to a new use.
Danny
Yes, EVision features a bootloader.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela Merz wrote:
Hey Jerry and All:
Yes, I bought the truck. And yes, since we are ranchers, we need a truck.
Michaela, a truck is your best choice under circumstances.
Back to the original question:
I would think the S-10 needs about 350 Wh, 400 Wh or maybe 450 Wh to go 60
Mph - or about 4 KW/h to 4.5 KW/h for 10 Miles - so ,
An EV takes Watts to move at certain speed, not Wh.
Wh are needed to move certain distance at some speed.
Your truck may require 20...25 kW to move at 60 mph on flat.
Now, to do it for an hour will take 20...25 kWh accordingly.
Anybody did an S-10 with Nicads before? Somebody (commercially) willing
and able to provide technology, batteries and charger?
mm.
I can provide the charger for your future NiCDs along with the
drive system.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mounting the SD card interface is complicated. It's not too wild but
you have to more tightly integrate the board design with the case
design. The SD card needs to be removeable, yet you may not want it
sticking out of the dash. And SD sockets need to be parallel with the
board so this limits the possible orientations.
I don't know what core you're planning on but the block size
requirements are problematic for some uC. I believe that required a min
of 512 bytes of RAM for block buffering and that was a lot for a uC.
Many of the newer ones have much more RAM space making this more
practical but it's still a significant chunk of the available space.
Danny
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Physical interface to the SD card is simple. Writing FAT16 file system
on the card and the driver for your uP is not trivial and
requires some programming skills. That's the tricky part (you don't
have to use FAT16, but then it is not easily readable by a PC
or MAC). I myself don't do the software part.
Victor
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
I think the simplest logging would be done to a SD Memory card that
fits in a little slot in the meter front.
These cards have a VERY simple (3 wire?) interface that is easy to
support by most micro-controllers.
Then you could just pull the card and stick it in your computer of
choice to work with the data.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pascal, here are your options:
1. Motor to drive the transmission through a clutch - you can shift
normally. This is very common.
2. Motor to drive the transmission directly to the transmission input shaft
(i.e. no clutch) - this is sometimes called "direct drive", maybe better
called "clutchless". Some people can shift on go. Others have to put it
into the selected gear when the car is at a standstill.
3. Motor to drive to a differential. (no transmission or clutch). This is
often called "direct drive". This is technically possible, but there are
limitations to the ratios available to you. If you motor has a narrow power
band, it may not be suitable for applications requiring a wide varying range
of speeds. Most differentials have a ratio of 3:1 to 5:1. It is difficult
to find differentials outside of this range.
Variations of the direct drive (3) might be a chain drive or a belt drive to
a rear axle. This is quite possible, but without somesort of a differential
you will get chattering and wheel hop when going around corners - not a nice
thing. However, it depends on your application - this option is quite
suitable for drag racers.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Pascal
Sent: August 23, 2005 11:52 AM
To: EVDL
Subject: Confusing arising
Hi all,
I am a bit confused. First I read Chris his message that I could use 'direct
drive' but later I read in the message send by Bruce that I could use a VW
Bug transaxle.
In my thinking 'direct drive' means that the Electric motor is directly
connected to the rear-axle, but following the advice giving by Bruce I will
have a
rear- and a trans-axle (so I must use the clutch and the 4-gear
transmission)
What is the best way to handle this, Looking at the plans of the UrbaCar,
back in those days they used a couple of chains running over 48 teeth
sprockets mounted on the rear-axle.
Just asking, because I am making a shoppinglist first, buy parts later as
needed and then finally can start my 'little' project.
thx all
Pascal
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I charge EV's and have a 2.4kw solar system and pay about 11 dollars a month
for electricity. LR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 8:21 AM
Subject: E-9 PG&E rates in California
Hi y'all, any one have experience with California's E-9 PG&E rates for
charging EV's? Mostly want to see if it ended up being worthwhile
economically. It's between 5-6 cents/kwh off peak (midnight to 7am) and as
high as 28.4 cents on peak (M-F 2-9 pm). There are partial peak rates at
around 10 cents at other day times (depending on time of year).Here's the
web site if you're interested. It was hard to find.
http://www.pge.com/about_us/environment/electric_vehicles/index.html#topic5
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 12:20:31 -0700 (PDT), Mark Hastings
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Wouldn't I want it a lot lower then 200 amps for the motor or is 200 amps ok?
>If so I could easily use a couple resistors that I have to keep it at 200 or a
>little lower I was targeting 50 but maybe that is too low. I have a box for
>the resistors and a heatsink already so I might try that rather then doing
>mig/jerry/stainless wire and fiberglass.
No idea, since I don't know what kind of motor or battery system you
have. I was simply showing you an example calculation that you could
plug your actual numbers into.
What is the full load amps rating of the motor? If the motor is
starting unloaded (a blade not in grass, for instance) then you could
limit the starting current to the full load current which would result
in a fairly leisurely spin-up. In that case, make the resistor equal
to the motor's internal resistance.
If you want to be able to start the blade while in grass then
something more on the order of 3 or 4 times FLA would be appropriate,
assuming the mechanicals external to the motor can take the torque.
If I were doing this, I'd do a combo of rough calculation and
cut'n'try. I'd roughly measure the motor resistance by locking the
shaft, applying a couple of volts and measuring the current. I'd look
up the per-foot resistance of the wire in a wiring table. I'd compute
the resistance, then make it a little larger. I'd hook the thing up
with a DC ammeter and try it. I'd trim the resistance wire until I
got the current I wanted.
Unless you're going to use the resistor continuously for speed
control, you won't need a heat sink. In the second or less it takes
to start the motor, the resistors will dissipate a lot of power but
not much energy so there will be little heat to get rid of. The mass
of the resistor(s) should handle it just fine unless you're turning
the thing on and off rapidly.
The wire method works really well and saves a lot of work. If you
want it to be pretty then use forms to bend the wire or even wrap it
around something and make a cute little coil. A couple of axial
strips of high viscosity RTV will damp vibrations and prevent fatigue
cracking. I keep spools of several sizes of siliconized fiberglass
loam around the shop because it is so handy for all sorts of things. I
get it from my friendly local electric motor service shop.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 12:35:02 -0700, Victor Tikhonov
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Yes, EVision features a bootloader.
I hate to say this, Victor, but that name really sucks. I have no
idea what an Evision is. IMHO, a name ought to give some indication
of what the product is or does.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bruce & Don,
Thanks for the info, I am a bit wiser then earlier
(learning all the time)
I didn't question your expertice on this matter Bruce,
but like I stated earlier, one message speaks of
direct drive, and yours stated using a trans-axle,
that was the part that puzzled me.
But in case I ask a question which has been answered
problably a 1000 times before, be gentle I am Dutch.
Oh, and a newbie on the EV-business so I can use all
the help I can get.
Thanks again for answering another question.
Pascal
--- Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> To unconfuse you based on my advice. My advice is
> based on using a DC Motor and controller set up
> instead of the Electric CVT that the Urbacar
> originally used. There is no need for the
> Transmission
> if you plan on using a Ac motor and controller. If
> you
> use DC motor and controller you will need a
> Transmission with a clutch. The Urbacar used a
> specail
> transmission originally. The motor ran at a constant
> speed and the transmission would Automaticly switch
> based on throttle position. How this unconfuses you.
>
> --- Pascal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am a bit confused. First I read Chris his
> message
> > that I could use 'direct drive' but later I read
> in
> > the message send by Bruce that I could use a VW
> Bug
> > transaxle.
> >
> > In my thinking 'direct drive' means that the
> > Electric
> > motor is directly connected to the rear-axle, but
> > following the advice giving by Bruce I will have a
> > rear- and a trans-axle (so I must use the clutch
> and
> > the 4-gear transmission)
> >
> > What is the best way to handle this, Looking at
> the
> > plans of the UrbaCar, back in those days they used
> a
> > couple of chains running over 48 teeth sprockets
> > mounted on the rear-axle.
> >
> > Just asking, because I am making a shoppinglist
> > first,
> > buy parts later as needed and then finally can
> start
> > my 'little' project.
> >
> > thx all
> >
> > Pascal
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________
> > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home
> page
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Future 72 Super Beetle conversion in progress
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
I hate to say this, Victor, but that name really sucks. I have no
idea what an Evision is. IMHO, a name ought to give some indication
of what the product is or does.
John
EVision is a gadget providing "Vision" for your EV [electrical system]
- you can "see" how everything is doing. Thus the name.
Take it as E-Vision (instead of E-Meter) if you like :-)
I guess, there is no way to please all, some like it,
some don't. How would you name it?
BTW, from the name "Link-10" you can't really tell what
the gadget does. Does this name sucks too then? Just wonder.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've got about nine inches from the bottom of the
frame rails to the floor of the cab at the tightest
point. I could make battery boxes that I can install
with a forklift from below. I could build them with a
small drop to give me additional clearance. I could
build them in blocks of 120 volts with big connectors
on them for ease of maintenance.
Gadget
--- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 09:32 AM 8/23/2005, Reverend Gadget wrote:
> >I have a 1 ton ford crew cab diesel pick up that I
> >will be converting. I will be recieving the motor
> and
> >controller this week. It's a 300kw system from a 30
> >foot bus. The motor will reside under the bed . I
> have
> >all the room from the from the hood to the back of
> the
> >cab for batteries. since this is an AC conversion,
> I'm
> >thinking that GC batteries are the way to go. any
> >thoughts?
>
> Oooh, sounds similar to the truck I'd like to do.
> (F-250 SuperCab
> with 240v of GC)
> With the motor under the bed, won't there still be
> room for some
> batteries to either side of it?
> Do you think there is actually enough clearance to
> put batteries under the cab?
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Might be a good idea to write a letter to Subaru at their Drive Magazine. I
wrote saying I was excited about the R1 Electric and would like to encourage
Subaru on this project.
http://www.drivesubaru.com/index.htm
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 23, 2005, at 11:53 AM, John G. Lussmyer wrote:
Well, there is this little item that I've put together....
http://www.casadelgato.com/CasaDelGatoSystems/index_files/Page451.htm
I'm currently starting to test these.
Very cool. How this programmed?
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is what is happening with my PFC:
1. the PFC case is connected to the the car chassis as per the instructions
2. only when the switch is turned on, the case and the car chassis becomes
pack negative
If the green wire ground is connected to the car chassis, therefore the pack
negative is connected to ground.
I was on the phone to Rich about this a few months back. He indicated that
this is normal behaviour. Are you telling me there is something wrong here?
If so, please clarify how I should test and correct.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
<outbind://18/www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/>
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ] On Behalf Of Joe Smalley
Sent: August 22, 2005 10:51 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
The incoming AC line goes to a full wave bridge rectifier. The negative side
of the bridge is connected to Pack Negative.
When the 120 VAC line swings negative, pack negative goes down to -170 volts
DC for a few milliseconds in a half sine waveform.
When the 120 VAC line swings positive, pack negative sits at -1 Volts DC for
8 milliseconds.
The green wire in the AC cord and the DC cord are both connected to chassis
ground in the charger.
Neither AC line nor DC line are connected to green wire ground.
The green wire ground is there to safely ground the chassis and blow the
feed breaker in case there is an isolation breach in the battery pack,
controller, motor, or charger.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 7:40 PM
Subject: RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
> This does not sound correct. If the battery pack is isolated from the
> car (which is a good thing). When a PFC charger is turned on, the
> negative
side
> of the pack is grounded to the case of the charger and connected to
> the AC input ground. If the case of the charger is attached to the
> chassis/body
of
> the car, then the chassis/body becomes attached to the negative side
> of
the
> pack.
>
> When the charger is turned off, the pack is not attached to the ground
> of the car.
>
> I have confirmed with Rich that this is the non-isolated behaviour of
> the PFC chargers.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/ <outbind://18/www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ]
> On Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
> Sent: August 22, 2005 6:26 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
>
> At 06:00 PM 8/22/2005, Ryan Stotts wrote:
> >I have the wall and the car and the charger is installed in the car.
> >I plug the charger into the wall and now the car is connected to the
> >power grid. What would the difference be between an isolated charger
> >and a non isolated charger? Because in my mind right now, I don't
> >see how either would be any different.
>
> Well, if your Pack is tied to the Car Body, you have a problem.
> But since sane people do NOT do that, it's not nearly as severed. A
PFC-20
> mounted in the car (to the body) will have the AC Ground line
> connected to the body.
> There IS a connection from a HOT AC line to one end of the pack, but
> since your pack isn't connected to the body, it's relatively safe.
> It's a nice idea to use a GFCI outlet, which will trigger to show you
> when you are getting too much leakage current from your pack....
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com <http://www.casadelgato.com/>
>
--- End Message ---
