EV Digest 4647
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Buses talk...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: adapter plate business...
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Signage
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Kelvin connection
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Best Flooded Battery
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Signage
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Battery Boxes / Heat pad - Colorado Experiance
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Kelvin connection
by "Jake Oshins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Buses talk...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Buses talk...
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Coolest shape EV by Peugeot
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) EV photos
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EV photos
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV photos
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Buses talk...
by Tony Godshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Signage
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Buses talk...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Best Flooded Battery
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: driving habits
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV photos
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) article: UQM Technologies Receives Additional Funding From the U.S.
Air Force for Electric Pickup Truck Project
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Hydraulic drive motorcycle
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) article: Toyota will let drivers keep their electric vehicles
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Peugeot's EV
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Best Flooded Battery
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Buses talk...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Protecting a shunt from NiCD batteries
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) How about this flash movie?
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: Buses talk...
by Tony Godshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
34) Re: Signage
by Tony Godshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
> RS-232... is surprisingly noise resistant when done correctly.
> Using a high quality shielded twisted pair DB9 cable, the data
> logger on my Altrax AXE controller works perfectly even though
> the controller is surrounded by the traction cables.
One thing that helps (and is underestimated by software engineers) is
that a true hardware UART samples each bit about 16 times, and averages
them to get the data bit. The serial data can be "shot full of holes"
from noise spikes, but as long as a majority of the samples within each
bit are right, it still works without errors.
Most engineers implementing fast serial protocols on cheap micros are
only sampling a few times per bit (and often just ONCE per bit!). That
makes them far less immune to random noise on the line. For instance,
CAN uses 4 samples per bit.
--
Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I guess my thinking that this existed came from finding this at
Otmar's site:
http://cafeelectric.com/curtis/curtisschematic.pdf
Evidently, they don't pubish it; this one was reverse engineered. 1221B
-- not sure how similar this is to the C model
Philip Marino wrote:
From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: adapter plate business...
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:09:47 -0700
I think schematics for Curtis
controllers are easily found.
Eric - I would like a schematic for a Curtis ( 1221C) , but haven't
been able to find it (on line, at least).
Can you post a link to it ? It's not in the user's manual. Or, can it
be ordered direct from Curtis?
Thanks, Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As I get closer to getting my EV on the road I am mulling over what I
want displayed in the back.
I am takeing suggestions for license plate, it is a 1987 300zx with 25
orbitals(hopefully) and a zilla 1k pushing a warp9.
license "300VZX, hipotnl, IRsqrd"
frame "My other car uses gas"
or "28Hp, wanna race?"
of course it gets a big suckamps sticker in the back window and a sign
like those "accident free days" that reads something like "25 days gas
free" or "Last gallon of gas bought 25 days ago"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So two sets of wires. What gauge for each set sensing & current carrying?
Maybe a way around this for the stoneage AGM chargers is to measure the
voltage at the battery and adjust the reg to that voltage rather than what
is comming thru the wires. I wonder if that would work? Might take two
people to do it. LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jake Oshins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: Kelvin connection
After reading Rich's documentation, I had to google pretty hard to
figure out what a "Kelvin" connection was. It breaks down like this:
A Rudman Regulator, by default, use two wires, connected (one each) to
the poles of the battery. It does two things through these wires.
First, it measures voltage. Second, it passes current that is bypassing
the battery. The problem comes when the wires get long. At that point,
the resistence in the wires affects the voltage measurement, but only
when the current in the wires is non-zero. So your batts can get out of
balance because they are effectively equalizing to different voltages.
The solution is a "Kelvin" measurement setup, where you use separate
wires for measurement and current bypass. The second set of wires
carries no current and thus sees no voltage drop due to resistance. So
you get an accurate voltage at the regulator.
The problem is that Rich no longer populates the "SENSE" pads on the
regs with pins. So you have to do some fancy soldering to hook up the
extra set of wires. This was enough of an impediment to me that I
decided to just keep the lengths of the wire to my regs relatively
constant and relatively short, hoping that that would mean that my regs
would be uniformly wrong in their voltage measurent and, thus,
relatively in balance.
- Jake Oshins
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:37 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: Kelvin connection
My problem isn't burned regs. At least so far. My regs burned through
the
plastic with mild heating. I also want to put all the regs on something
more solid anyway. The plastic was 1/16 inch thick. The problem is
running long wires. I want to run 16 gauge wire from my back battery box
under the back seat to the motor compartment. I still don't quite know
what
a Kelvin Connection is really. Looking up the defination it says 4 wire
hookup. Lawrence Rhodes
If you read the instructions for the regs you will notice that if any
reg
comes on solid, the charger is set too high and needs to be turned
DOWN.
To help remind you to do that, you can put a seat belt buzzer or
sonalert
on
the external load pins of the first reg to come on. When it blinks, it
makes
a sound and you know your charger is making the reg blink. If it comes
on
continuously, turn the charger down.
Once you know how to set the charger, you can remove the noise maker
and
be
reasonably confident that the regs won't burn up.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:02 PM
Subject: Kelvin connection
I want to connect my regs to the batteries in the back of my Aspire.
8
feet
or so. There isn't a good spot in the back anymore. I want them
under
the
hood along with my other regs. What is a good material to attach
everything
to. I used plastic last time and the external loads melted through
and
even
melted into one battery. The REG ABUSER. Lawrence Rhodes.......
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seems in the 12v arena that the EV145 by US are said to do well. They are
designed as an EV battery. They are 87 pounds each.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cwarman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 1:50 PM
Subject: Best Flooded Battery
Im trying to find the best performance/best price flooded 12vlt battery
out there...
Any suggestions where i can start looking and price..
I wanna start to design the battery boxes this weekend, but trying to get
my battery choice lined up so i can get some dimensions..
Cwarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Silent but Speedy?
Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:As I get closer to getting my EV on the
road I am mulling over what I
want displayed in the back.
I am takeing suggestions for license plate, it is a 1987 300zx with 25
orbitals(hopefully) and a zilla 1k pushing a warp9.
license "300VZX, hipotnl, IRsqrd"
frame "My other car uses gas"
or "28Hp, wanna race?"
of course it gets a big suckamps sticker in the back window and a sign
like those "accident free days" that reads something like "25 days gas
free" or "Last gallon of gas bought 25 days ago"
Future 72 Super Beetle conversion in progress
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This will be my 4th winter driving the electric Civic. I've used the
thin film heaters (from KTA) , installed under an aluminum plate with my
floodeds for all three winters. I put 1/2 inch of the blue hard board
insulation between the bottom of the battery box and the heater and
around the sides as much as possible. Over the top I put either a
1/2inch of the hard board insulation or some ordinary fiberglass in
plastic bags on top of the battery box where there is room. Each
battery box is independently controlled using "rite-temp" baseboard
thermostats. This arrangement keeps all 4 packs within about 5 degrees
F all winter. I usually keep them at 83F or so. They drop less than
10F even on the coldest days (less than 0F) on my 43 mile each way
commute.
Lynn Adams
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The max for the regulator without an external load is supposed to be 2A
or 3A, depending on what revision you bought. So the current-carrying
wires have to be able to handle that. If you attached an external load,
they have to be enough to handle whatever you're running through them.
Put fuses in your system.
The sense wires can be quite light, as they carry little current.
- Jake
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 2:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Kelvin connection
So two sets of wires. What gauge for each set sensing & current
carrying?
Maybe a way around this for the stoneage AGM chargers is to measure the
voltage at the battery and adjust the reg to that voltage rather than
what
is comming thru the wires. I wonder if that would work? Might take two
people to do it. LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jake Oshins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: Kelvin connection
> After reading Rich's documentation, I had to google pretty hard to
> figure out what a "Kelvin" connection was. It breaks down like this:
>
> A Rudman Regulator, by default, use two wires, connected (one each) to
> the poles of the battery. It does two things through these wires.
> First, it measures voltage. Second, it passes current that is
bypassing
> the battery. The problem comes when the wires get long. At that
point,
> the resistence in the wires affects the voltage measurement, but only
> when the current in the wires is non-zero. So your batts can get out
of
> balance because they are effectively equalizing to different voltages.
>
> The solution is a "Kelvin" measurement setup, where you use separate
> wires for measurement and current bypass. The second set of wires
> carries no current and thus sees no voltage drop due to resistance.
So
> you get an accurate voltage at the regulator.
>
> The problem is that Rich no longer populates the "SENSE" pads on the
> regs with pins. So you have to do some fancy soldering to hook up the
> extra set of wires. This was enough of an impediment to me that I
> decided to just keep the lengths of the wire to my regs relatively
> constant and relatively short, hoping that that would mean that my
regs
> would be uniformly wrong in their voltage measurent and, thus,
> relatively in balance.
>
> - Jake Oshins
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:37 AM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Kelvin connection
>
> My problem isn't burned regs. At least so far. My regs burned through
> the
> plastic with mild heating. I also want to put all the regs on
something
>
> more solid anyway. The plastic was 1/16 inch thick. The problem is
> running long wires. I want to run 16 gauge wire from my back battery
box
>
> under the back seat to the motor compartment. I still don't quite
know
> what
> a Kelvin Connection is really. Looking up the defination it says 4
wire
>
> hookup. Lawrence Rhodes
>
>
>> If you read the instructions for the regs you will notice that if any
> reg
>> comes on solid, the charger is set too high and needs to be turned
> DOWN.
>>
>> To help remind you to do that, you can put a seat belt buzzer or
> sonalert
>> on
>> the external load pins of the first reg to come on. When it blinks,
it
>
>> makes
>> a sound and you know your charger is making the reg blink. If it
comes
> on
>> continuously, turn the charger down.
>>
>> Once you know how to set the charger, you can remove the noise maker
> and
>> be
>> reasonably confident that the regs won't burn up.
>>
>> Joe Smalley
>> Rural Kitsap County WA
>> Fiesta 48 volts
>> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:02 PM
>> Subject: Kelvin connection
>>
>>
>>> I want to connect my regs to the batteries in the back of my Aspire.
> 8
>> feet
>>> or so. There isn't a good spot in the back anymore. I want them
> under
>> the
>>> hood along with my other regs. What is a good material to attach
>> everything
>>> to. I used plastic last time and the external loads melted through
> and
>> even
>>> melted into one battery. The REG ABUSER. Lawrence Rhodes.......
>>> Lawrence Rhodes
>>> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
>>> Reedmaker
>>> Book 4/5 doubler
>>> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
>>> 415-821-3519
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Most engineers implementing fast serial protocols on cheap micros are
only sampling a few times per bit (and often just ONCE per bit!). That
makes them far less immune to random noise on the line. For instance,
CAN uses 4 samples per bit.
It is actually programmable and you can sample 1,2 or 3 times per bit.
This is enough because combined with CAN error handling capability
the undetected error rate is stunning 1 error per every 1,000 years
in a vehicle running 2000 hours/year with 500 kbps bus loaded 25%.
Try this with 16 times sampled UART and common serial protocols.
> CANbus is normally 500 kbits/sec. Packets only carry 6 bytes of data,
Err, up to 8 bytes,
> but have 21 bits of ID,
Correction: extended frames only, standard ones are 11 bits
> 16 bit CRCs, another dozen or so control bits,
> and required idle times; thus the effective data rate is around 200
> kbits/sec. Thus CAN is about 30 times faster, not 100.
Make it 60 times faster, and that is 500kbps bus.
Standard transceivers go up to 2 Mbps, so make it
rather 240 times faster (whether you need/care is different issue).
Also, consider high priority CAN mesages do not have to be
re-transmitted if collided with other messages.
In this situation RS485 or any other bus implementation
will keep re-transmitting loosing time until data get through
without errors.
It is not terribly important in Tango to measure battery
voltages. Try to use RS485 to talk to the airbag controller
which has to react in milliseconds time.
This is just the info. I'm not trying to convince you Lee,
I know this is impossible :-)
'Course EVil bus beats everything out there...
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What is commonly used for battery heaters?
I am getting ready to fabricate my battery box and front racks soon and need to
get an idea. I haven't looked at this issue yet.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
> From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2005/08/31 Wed PM 12:57:59 EST
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
>
> Is there any difference between AGM and floodies when it comes to cold
> weather performance?
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cwarman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 12:04 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
>
> What are people doing with thier EV in the winter months, if one doesnt have
> a garage and this vehicle is gonna be used each day for short commutes ?
>
> Ive read about some people that will have a heat blanket in the battery
> box..
>
> Does this not have to be on, while the truck is being used ?
>
> Anyone using one of these setups now ?
>
> CWarman
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is enough because combined with CAN error handling capability
the undetected error rate is stunning 1 error per every 1,000 years
in a vehicle running 2000 hours/year with 500 kbps bus loaded 25%.
Ummmm yeah right how did someone come up with this. In a non-leap year
there are 8760 hours so it would take 228 years to prove this. I don't
believe the standard has been around quite that long :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Lee, this comparison is a bit misleading and last paragraph have to be
emphasized:
It's just my opinion. And I'm biased, of course. (Isn't everyone? :-)
Sure. I suppose Robert Bosch is biased too.
You built an optoisolated transceiver for a 2 wire bus. This is
not a "bus". RS485, CAN, and many other use twisted pair as a bus,
and EVil bus is no different.
I don't understand. Why isn't it a "bus"? It's a system for connecting
up to 32 nodes together so they can exchange data over the same set of
wires. I designed the transceiver itself, terminators (two 150 ohm
resistors to +12v and ground), picked a standard connector (RCA phono),
and cable (audio shielded cable).
You designed a physical interface to a twisted pair. No one
*designed* two wires all these busus use as a conduction medium.
I suppose first we need to define what comprises "a bus" so we speak
the same language.
I could connect your optoisolating transceivers to my CAN nodes
and it would be optoisolated CAN network (bus), not EVil bus.
CAN is a software and data format standard; not a hardware bus standard.
RS-232, RS-485, EVILbus etc. are hardware bus standards; they don't deal
with the software or data format.
I'm fully aware of this.
So, you can use CAN with RS-232, RS-485, EVILbus, or many other hardware
bus schemes.
Exactly. So what do you use with EVil bus hardware, so the collection
of optos, transistors and phone jacks you skillfuly put together
become a "bus" (which I define as a combination of the software and
hardware capable of providing useful data traffic)?
RS-485 has no defined bit sequence or protocol. (Neither does EVILbus,
for that matter).
I guess we have to distinguish between "hardware interface standard"
and "bus" (which should include interface of your choice).
Correct. All things being equal, the higher the data rate, the higher
the power consumption. But the drawback to designing for a high data
rate is that even if you run it much slower, power consumption is still
high. Not as high, but higher than it would have been if you designed
around the lower data rate in the first place.
That is provided your priority is power consumption rather than
data transfer rate.
Normally people tend to want to process more data faster and faster
ans willing to pay for more power (look at computers world) than
go slower and slower to meed power consumption spec.
Tango's requirements were just too specific.
We already know how to make EVILbus much faster if necessary; high-speed
optocouplers, active terminator, etc. It just isn't necessary so far.
Isn't nesessary for what?
It may not be nesessary for Tango but is nesessary
to make fair comparison with other bus solution.
You can't claim that the bus processing one bit per minute but
drawing 10 uA is more superior to the EVis bus.
Yes, it *is* powerwise, but is useless.
So if *anything* below 9600 kbps is useless for *my* application,
(like EVil bus) it doen't matter how little power it consumes,
it is NOT more superior.
Correct. It's the sort of thing you connect to your existing micro's
serial port, and use it to send/receiver serial data.
Finally, agreed on something :-)
I'd like to establish a 'standard' software protocol for EVILbus, but
getting programmers to agree is like herding cats. Everyone does their
own thing, and doesn't care if it's compatible with anyone else's.
My advise - don't bother. Take one which suits your needs today
and expandable in future. If you don't know anything about programming
(as me), hire a guy who does. He will implement in software
your ideas, not his ideas, so everything stay coherent.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I haven't seen this message going through, so sorry if repeating:
That's the coolest shape concept EV I've seen so far:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/
Images:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/gallery/
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I haven't seen this message going through, so sorry if repeating:
That's the coolest shape concept EV I've seen so far:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/
Images:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/gallery/
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
that's 3 times you've posted this today
my opinion? too much glass, one little fender bender and the rider would be
cut to ribbons
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 7:16 PM
Subject: EV photos
I haven't seen this message going through, so sorry if repeating:
That's the coolest shape concept EV I've seen so far:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/
Images:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/gallery/
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry for repeat, I understand now what is happening.
I don't see it on EVDL and think the message doesn't get through,
so post again. In reality it get posted, I didn't see it it
because word "cool" in subject filters it out as spam so
it doesn't reach my machine. Suspecting that I changed
subject and it went through.
Again, sorry for repeating. Time to re-train spam filters...
Victor
Mark McCurdy wrote:
that's 3 times you've posted this today
my opinion? too much glass, one little fender bender and the rider would
be cut to ribbons
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > RS-232 isn't even good in an office environment compared to
> > the alternatives. Have you noticed how few RS-232 devices
> > there are now? Even historical inertia can be overcome.
> >
> > Almost everything these days is RS-422-style balanced pairs-
> > RS-485, 10BaseT, 100BaseT, etc. They give you distance and
> > noise immunity without excessive power or bulky shielding.
>
> To go faster, you need more power. True for computer buses, and EV
> buses!
...
You can get better distance with more power, but you can
also get better distance with smarter encoding.
Actually, differential transmission WILL get you clean
transmission for a longer distance for lower power than
unbalanced. It's because noise hits both lines of a twisted
pair nearly equally, and since what we are measuring is the
difference, not the absolute voltage, we can still get the
bit even in the presense of a lot of noise.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EZ
EZX
ELCTRZT
300V ZX (I like it with a space in there)
BATREZE or BATREEZ
ZEV
NOXZOST
ZBEST
ZCLNEST
I'd suggest leaving off anything suggesting speed or racing. Heavens
forbid you get in a wreck, because then "wanna race" on the back
isn't going to help your cause!
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As I get closer to getting my EV on the road I am mulling over what
> I
> want displayed in the back.
> I am takeing suggestions for license plate, it is a 1987 300zx with
> 25
> orbitals(hopefully) and a zilla 1k pushing a warp9.
> license "300VZX, hipotnl, IRsqrd"
> frame "My other car uses gas"
> or "28Hp, wanna race?"
>
> of course it gets a big suckamps sticker in the back window and a
> sign
> like those "accident free days" that reads something like "25 days
> gas
> free" or "Last gallon of gas bought 25 days ago"
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tony Godshall wrote:
Actually, differential transmission WILL get you clean
transmission for a longer distance for lower power than
unbalanced. It's because noise hits both lines of a twisted
pair nearly equally, and since what we are measuring is the
difference, not the absolute voltage, we can still get the
bit even in the presense of a lot of noise.
That's in theory in a text book.
If you try to built it and bench test it, you will see that
common mode noise on both bus wires, while being equal, can
reach such an absolute levels that it hopelessly saturates
inputs of many differential receivers, so it is unable to
detect *anything* and has no time to recover between
incoming noise spikes. Also, the power for receivers is not
a diff line, noice on that may produce false output without
any real activity on the bus.
Just try it.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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why 12v , I have seen so many ev's not make it because of some 12v trolling
motor battery or 12 deep cycle , the battery boxes set up for them and then
the right batteries won't fit. are you looking for speed , or distance
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cwarman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 3:50 PM
Subject: Best Flooded Battery
Im trying to find the best performance/best price flooded 12vlt battery
out there...
Any suggestions where i can start looking and price..
I wanna start to design the battery boxes this weekend, but trying to get
my battery choice lined up so i can get some dimensions..
Cwarman
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Ken, that's great stuff! Thanks for the link.
On Aug 31, 2005, at 11:31 AM, Ken Olum wrote:
Thanks to everyone who responded to my query. To add another answer
to my own question, at http://nhts.ornl.gov/2001/ there is a tool
which will allow you to do your own data analysis of the National
Household Travel Survey. For example, you can get the percentage of
trips that are longer than 20 miles categorized by trip purpose and
separated by U.S. state.
Ken
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
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On Aug 31, 2005, at 5:23 PM, Mark McCurdy wrote:
my opinion? too much glass, one little fender bender and the rider
would be cut to ribbons
Where are the windshield wipers?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Tikhonov"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 7:16 PM
Subject: EV photos
I haven't seen this message going through, so sorry if repeating:
That's the coolest shape concept EV I've seen so far:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/
Images:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/gallery/
Victor
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
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link:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/08/31/141690.html
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
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on ev mower frame 2 I got to test the electric motor that I used to replace
the hydraulic , got the gearing to spin the wheel about the same speed as
before and with just 36 v and 10 amp , now that's just one wheel , and no
real load ,but comparied to the 72v 100 amps I was useing before it looks
very good , just alot more work. My gas mow took a dump yesterday , valve
stuck , so I'm using my back up and it's not much, got to make that jump to
electric , good thing winter is comming ,
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 2:55 PM
Subject: Hydraulic drive motorcycle
Relative to the recent discussion about hydraulic drive systems.
http://www.gizmag.com/go/2351/
A two wheel drive dirt bike using hydraulics to transmit to the in-hub
hydraulic motor on the front wheel. Looks like Yamaha is making it
work.
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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Those of you who have RAV4 EVs are in luck:
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/business/12526451.htm
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
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Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> That's the coolest shape concept EV I've seen so far:>
> http://www.gizmag.com/go/4506/
My gawd! Just when you think you've seen everything...
How the heck do they provide suspension for those wheels? Where are the
motors and batteries?
--
Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Cwarman wrote:
> I'm trying to find the best performance/best price flooded 12 volt
> battery out there... Any suggestions where I can start looking and
> price...
Two 6v golf cart batteries in series :-)
About $100 for a pair will deliver 12v at 220ah at the 20-hour rate, or
130ah at the 1-hour rate.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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>> This is enough because combined with CAN error handling capability
>> the undetected error rate is stunning 1 error per every 1,000 years
>> in a vehicle running 2000 hours/year with 500 kbps bus loaded 25%.
damon henry wrote:
> Ummmm yeah right how did someone come up with this. In a non-leap year
> there are 8760 hours so it would take 228 years to prove this. I don't
> believe the standard has been around quite that long :-)
It's basically a guess, based on statistics and a lot of assumptions.
You start by assuming an average bit error rate; say, 1 bad bit per
million. You then assume these bad bits are randomly distributed; i.e.
two bad bits might be anything from right next to each other to two
million bits apart. Then you look at where two bad bits need to be in a
packet to cancel each other out so the packet still appears to be
correct (and so fools the error-detection algorithm).
It will turn out that there is a short list of places in the packet
where these two bit errors have to occur. You the figure out how long it
will take before the two error bits just happen to land there.
The trouble is, all this assumes you have perfect knowledge about the
noise source. In reality, noise is unpredictable. So such calculations
are largely useless except as a crude way to compare two different
systems (or for Marketing people to "sell" you on their system).
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Pestka, Dennis J wrote:
> Is there any difference between AGM and floodies when it comes to
> cold weather performance?
Yes. The internal resistance of all types of lead-acid batteries goes
up:
- as their state of charge drops
- as they get older
- as they get colder
The increasing resistance causes more voltage sag, and limits the
current you can draw. The higher the resistance, the slower you
accellerate and the lower your top speed. At some point, the voltage
drop and current limit gets so bad that you can't drive any more.
The important point is that AGMs start with an internal resistance 2 to
4 times lower than floodeds. Therefore, they can be colder and be
discharged deeper before their performance is the same as floodeds.
As a driver, what you will observe is that a flooded pack starts to feel
"sluggish" when it gets below about 50% SOC at 32 deg.F (0 deg.C). An
AGM doesn't feel this sluggish until it is down to 20% SOC at the same
temperature.
However, when you do notice the AGMs getting sluggish, they get worse
fast! That's because you really only have 20% of a charge left -- you
won't get far on that. And if you try, you are very likely to run at
least some cells totally dead, and cause serious harm to that battery.
> What are people doing with their EV in the winter months, if one
> doesn't have a garage and this vehicle is gonna be used each day
> for short commutes?
If you are driving every day, you rarely need a battery heater. Just
insulate the batteries with an inch or so of styrafoam or a few inches
of fiberglass batts. The waste heat from driving and charging will keep
them warm.
If you aren't driving until spring, let the batteries sit cold. As long
as they are around full charge they won't freeze, and will hold their
charge longer and their overall life will be longer.
> I've read about some people that will have a heat blanket in the
> battery box. Does this not have to be on, while the truck is being
> used?
No, there is no reason to run it while you are driving (or charging).
Both of these process create more waste heat than the heating blanket
ever would.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Great job on the calculations, Roland. However, a 100 sq.ft. battery box
is huge! That would be something like 5' x 8' x 1' high, which is enough
to hold 75 golf cart batteries!
The heaters I've used in my battery boxes, in Minnesota (land of -30
deg.F winters), with about 1" of foam insulation, need about 100 watts
to maintain a 70 deg.F battery temperature on 6 batteries.
--
"One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Ok, so I now have a dual 500amp shunt in the Elec-trak. It's connected
to the flooded NiCDs with #4 wire, with nickel plated lugs on all ends
and the copper wire soldered to the lugs and wrapped with electrical tape.
Problem is the shunt itself is brass and copper plates with brass screws.
Will the KaOH vapors from the NiCD batteries damage the brass? And how
can I protect the copper plates in the shunt? I don't want this thing
turning to copper sulfate within a year.
Thoughts?
Chris
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http://toccionline.kizash.com/films/1001/178/index.php
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According to Victor Tikhonov,
> Tony Godshall wrote:
>
> >Actually, differential transmission WILL get you clean
> >transmission for a longer distance for lower power than
> >unbalanced. It's because noise hits both lines of a twisted
> >pair nearly equally, and since what we are measuring is the
> >difference, not the absolute voltage, we can still get the
> >bit even in the presense of a lot of noise.
>
> That's in theory in a text book.
>
> If you try to built it and bench test it, you will see that
> common mode noise on both bus wires, while being equal, can
> reach such an absolute levels that it hopelessly saturates
> inputs of many differential receivers, so it is unable to
> detect *anything* and has no time to recover between
> incoming noise spikes. Also, the power for receivers is not
> a diff line, noice on that may produce false output without
> any real activity on the bus.
>
> Just try it.
No need. You are right.
I do know that when our clients have run twisted pair
(RS422) in the same conduit with heavy equipment three-phase
power (don't ask), it works, and when they do the same with
RS232 it doesn't. That's pretty real-world but not EV. But
I know damn well the RS232 power draw is not less than the
RS422.
Trivia: Trying to run Ethernet speeds on RS422 electrical spec
(ethernet twisted pair has same electrical spec as RS422) in
the same conduit with heavy equipment three-phase doesn't work.
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Jeff:
RECYC*EV
WAS*GAS
SUCK*AMPS [trouble on several fronts with this one]
NO GAS
NOPETRO
OILFREE
M E FREE (middle east)
[* = five point star, assuming you can do that in your state]
I do like your frame.
David:
Hey, I like your name. Did B. Fuller make you?
According to David Dymaxion,
> EZ
> EZX
> ELCTRZT
> 300V ZX (I like it with a space in there)
> BATREZE or BATREEZ
> ZEV
> NOXZOST
> ZBEST
> ZCLNEST
>
> I'd suggest leaving off anything suggesting speed or racing. Heavens
> forbid you get in a wreck, because then "wanna race" on the back
> isn't going to help your cause!
>
> --- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > As I get closer to getting my EV on the road I am mulling over what
> > I
> > want displayed in the back.
> > I am takeing suggestions for license plate, it is a 1987 300zx with
> > 25
> > orbitals(hopefully) and a zilla 1k pushing a warp9.
> > license "300VZX, hipotnl, IRsqrd"
> > frame "My other car uses gas"
> > or "28Hp, wanna race?"
> >
> > of course it gets a big suckamps sticker in the back window and a
> > sign
> > like those "accident free days" that reads something like "25 days
> > gas
> > free" or "Last gallon of gas bought 25 days ago"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
--
Best Regards,
Tony
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