EV Digest 4654
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Battery question (again)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Kelvin connection
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: battery storage charging
by Scott Fleischhauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Trojan Pricing
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Alltrax 7245 controller
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: First trip to DMV
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) DC DC, A/C
by Carl Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Alltrax 7245 controller
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Kelvin connection
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: 2000 mile range EV?
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Steves Mower, was, 2000
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: battery storage charging
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Alltrax 7245 controller
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: battery storage charging
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: DC DC, A/C
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Trojan Pricing
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: First trip to DMV
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Trojan Pricing
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) EV identification
by Ryan Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: battery storage charging
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: GM balks at EV R&D
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: EV identification
by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: battery storage charging
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Steves Mower, was, 2000
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Trojan Pricing
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
It depends on how much amperes you will need to drive your EV.
Ampere-hour capacity is a measure of how many amperes a battery can deliver for
a specified length of time. These are normally rated for a 20 hour rate.
Example:
A typical marine or golf car battery that has 100 ampere-hours can deliver 5
amperes for 20 hours (5 amperes x 20 hours = 100 amp-hrs).
As the ampere goes up or the load of your EV goes up, A 100 ampere-hour battery
may only deliver 20 amperes for only 4 hours, resulting in an actual capacity
of 80 ampere-hours.
If the battery is measure in reserve capacity. Lets say a battery has a 180
minute reserved capacity at 25 amps, then:
180 min. / 60 = 3 hours
Therefore:
3 hr x 25 amps = 75 amp-hours.
Normally a golf cart is driven at slow speed for short distance and some needs
to be charge driving 9 holes.
A EV vehicle is normally driven from 10 to 25 mph city driving through
residential streets. My average mph in my city with speed limits from 20 to 35
mph is only 15 mph.
My average ampere draw is about 50 amps at 15 mph. I am using 250 ampere-hour
batteries, so if you kill the batteries down to 0 percent, then you think you
can get:
250 amp-hr /50 amps = 5 hours of driving
NOT SO !!
When you get to 50 percent charge of the battery or about 125 to 100 amp-hr
which causes a voltage drop that might be below your motor voltage. The EV will
slow down and may not have enough power to climb any grades.
So its is best to only discharge down to 50 percent. The batteries will last
longer. A EV that drives 100 miles a day with two deep discharges and
recharged, the battery life could be only two years.
A EV with enough AH capacity that allows you to drive several days before its
gets down to 50 percent will last a lot longer. My last set of batteries were
the Exide 235 AH 6-volt golf car batteries, that I was be able to squeeze 12
years out of with only 6 replacements out of 30 batteries.
The new set I have now is Trojan 260 AH 6-volt which is now 4 years olds and I
expect them to go at least another 6 to 8 more years. There is only 0.01 volt
difference between all the batteries which we call a balance charged battery.
The 28 ah battery has only a 18 hole range at about 5 mph for a vehicle that
weighs less than 1000 lbs.
So it depends on the weight, speed and what distance you want to go.
Used Uve's Electric Vehicle Calculator to determined what type of EV system you
need.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Pascal<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EVDL<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:51 AM
Subject: Battery question (again)
Hi all,
Sorry if this has been answered before, I problably
missed it then.
It was suggested that I should use 6V batteries for my
EV, but yesterday I visited a golfcar-dealer and I
noticed some 12V batteries (1 type is 12v/22ah, the
other is 12v/28ah) for golfcars.
So I wonder, are these ok to use in an EV, (I'm still
a newbie at EV-stuff)
thx
Pascal
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
Why wouldn't the person adjusting the reg have the voltmeter right there
in front of them on the reg itself?
Ralph
Lawrence Rhodes writes:
>
> It seems to me that I have adjusted my regs once in a while. Once you
> adjust it. It then carrys on at that level all by its self for a long time.
> But over time you might have to slightly readjust them. Here is the
> senario. Person A is at the reg in the front of the car. Person B reads
> the voltage at the battery. Person B Calls out voltages. Person A adjusts
> the reg untill the battery hits lets say 15 volts. You are done. Go to the
> next reg and battery untill they all register the same voltage. My
> experience is that this is a little tricky. As you adjust one reg it
> effects the other regs. It takes a while but with patience you can have
> every battery in your pack at the same voltage at the end of charge. It's
> the error that measuring the voltage at the reg 8 feet away will lead you
> astray. If one person is at the battery they will tell you when you have
> adjusted the reg correctly. Then you are done. The person isn't going to
> use a light bulb to do it manually. You need the reg to carry on after you
> have found the right voltage. Am I making myself clear? I'm not triggering
> the reg. The reg does that by itself after being adjusted properly which is
> why you need another person to quicken the process. Is that clear?
> Lawrence Rhodes.........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jake Oshins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 6:39 PM
> Subject: RE: Kelvin connection
>
>
> >I don't understand the question. The Kelvin connection does exactly
> > that. It measures voltage at the battery.
> >
> > Are you suggesting that you always stand there and manually measure the
> > voltage? If so, what do you need a regulator for? Just turn down your
> > charger when a battery gets charged.
> >
> > Are you suggesting that you would manually trigger the regulator when
> > the other guy tells you to? If so, how would you do that? Would you
> > turn the trim pot so that it kicks in? If so, you'll quickly wear out
> > the trim pot, as it's not rugged enough to be constantly adjusted.
> >
> > - Jake
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:21 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Kelvin connection
> >
> > Avoiding all this could one just measure the voltage at the battery?
> > Would
> > the reg still function? It would mean a lot of running back and forth
> > or a
> > partner but will the regs function that way. Lawrence Rhodes......
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
don't leave them on a cement floor, somehow the cement will discharge them, it
is best to have a board or something wood for them to sit on
Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Hi,
I just got my bat pack, 30 T-125's, and they are sitting on my concrete floor.
They measured 6.20 - 6.18 v when I got them a week ago, now they are at 6.18 -
6.16v. I do not think I will be able to install them for at least the next 3
weeks so I should charge them.
I remember somebody saying that if you put them all in parallel on a 12 vdc
charger then they will get a trickle charge. Is that correct?
They are laid out in 6 rows of 5 bats each. I wired up one 'string' with a
length of 12 g elec wire, wrapped it once around the pos posts, and another
length and wrapped it around the neg posts, then connected it to the charger,
Schumacher 10 amp 12/24 v. Put it on 12v, Deep Discharge. It cycled quickly -
about 15 sec on charging (6.30v), then cycled off for about 5 seconds and back
to charging, I did this for about 5 min and the charge came up to 6.20 for the
string. Does this sound right? How long should I leave it on?
I can wire up all the 6 'strings' of 5 bats each, connect the neg and pos of
each string together, and then charge them all at once, correct?
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The closest Battery dealer to me is about 4 hours away, so i call up today to
get some pricing on Trojan batterys..Here is what they were, please reply with
this being a high or low number..or where i may be able to do better etc.
Trojan T-145 $130 per
Trojan T-125 $92 per
Trojan J-305G $165
Cwarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes. I have one in my 72 volt CitiCar. Let's see, 780kg is about
1600 or so pounds. Yep, that's about what a Citi weighs with all the
batteries and me in it. Performance is brisk and I run out of gearing
but not power at about 50-55 mph.
The Altrack is VASTLY better than the Curtis equiv. I had an
"upgraded" 400 amp Curtis in the car before. It would not conduct 400
amps. The Altrax has peaked at 500 amps. My Citi accelerates fast
enough that the current fairly rapidly drops to the 300 amp range that
the Altrax handles easily. The case barely gets warm.
The data logging and the flexible throttle setup is nice too, but the
major feature is its performance.
One tip if you get one. The manual says that the unit can be bench
programmed using a 12 volt battery. This is incorrect. The 72 volt
version requires at least 24 volts to power up.
I talked to one of the techs at Altrax and he told me that the
absolute voltage limit should be considered to be 100 volts. If one
makes sure that the pack is disconnected from the controller during
charging, one can sneak in another battery or two for even better
performance.
John
On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:10:40 +1000, "Robert Chew"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>has anyone ever successfully used a Alltrax 72 volt 450 amp controller in
>their road going car that weighs roughly 780 kg. I am still thinking whether
>to go curtis. However, i am very attracted to the datalogging function of
>the alltrax and also the much much lower price.
>
>Anyone in australia selling these controllers??
>
>Cheers
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Better yet put up a bigger sign and video tape your car 24/7. I saw this
done once with great results. The tape doesn't lie. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
On 1 Sep 2005 at 20:57, Mark Hastings wrote:
Now that I found my drivers side
window shattered when I came out from work ...
Not good. If I were you, I think I'd consider moving.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess either each DMV office is different or things have changed
since I registered my S-10 Blazer at the Santa Clara DMV office.
I received my EV Aug 1992 at the hp Cupertino parking lot. There
my EV was fresh from conversion by Solar Electric (now defunct).
They had hauled it from Santa Rosa using their flat bed transport
trailer and ol' pick up truck.
Solar told me all I have to do is take the EV over to a DMV and
have them inspect it before the DMV can register it as an Electric
Vehicle.
I drove it the couple of miles over to the Santa Clara DMV and
parked in the front customer parking lot. Then I went and stood in
the DMV information line to find out where to stand in the
correct line.
Once I had the right paperwork filled out and the fee paid, I was
told to drive my EV around back to be inspected.
I was in the same line with the people going for their drivers
license driving test. They were idling their ICE, and my EV was
off. When the DMV man came to me and found I needed an inspection
not a driving test, he went back in to get the inspection
procedure.
I showed him the head, tail, brake, and signal lights all worked
OK, the horn (Beep!), wipers, mirrors and then we went for a drive.
He told me to slowly exit the DMV parking lot, and drive a bit
on the city streets. He checked for proper braking at stop signs
and that the vehicle performed to his satisfaction.
After we returned from the brief ride, he signed off on the
registration form and gave me the temporary permit form to put
inside the back window.
A few weeks later, the post office delivered my registration card,
with my vehicle type designated as " E " for Electric Vehicle.
Those were the daysbefore such a thing as an HOV sticker. I was
just thrilled to be in the E category and driving Electric!
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know if these DC DC converters are
suitable for automotive use? Has anyone used them?
They are lightweight, reasonably priced, and 500W
looks good.
http://www.powerstream.com/DC-HV.htm
Now an Air Conditioning question: I am wondering if I
can take the stock a/c compressor, run the cooling
unit connectors through the car's stock heater core,
and add an oil cooler where the radiator was. THEN in
an ideal world, I could put a small motor on the
compressor and turn it one way for heat, and the other
for air conditioning. Am I missing something
fundamental about automotive compressors or can they
be turned into heat pumps?
Thanks
Carl Clifford
Denver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you stand by the ratings in each gear you should have no problem. The
car is light. I suspect it will work. Not sure how fast it will go. Maybe
50mph Maybe more. A 36v VW will go 45mph. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 2:10 AM
Subject: Alltrax 7245 controller
Hi all,
has anyone ever successfully used a Alltrax 72 volt 450 amp controller in
their road going car that weighs roughly 780 kg. I am still thinking
whether to go curtis. However, i am very attracted to the datalogging
function of the alltrax and also the much much lower price.
Anyone in australia selling these controllers??
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sep 1, 2005, at 1:21 PM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Avoiding all this could one just measure the voltage at the battery?
Would the reg still function? It would mean a lot of running back and
forth or a partner but will the regs function that way. Lawrence
Rhodes......
That is what the Kelvin connection does. You run 2 wires to the
positive post and 2 to the negative. One set carries the shunt
regulator power (and so sees a voltage drop when the regulator is ON.)
The other just measures the voltage at the battery (with no load placed
on the wires.) The regulator can regulate without the more distant
batteries switching the reg off as soon as it turns on (because of the
voltage drop caused by the load carrying wires.)
I actually like Lee's idea. One set of wires where the voltage causes a
set on time. Then the load turns off, so and a single set of wires can
sense the voltage accurately and carry the load.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hastings wrote:
> Thank you for the detailed reply I would much rather keep my EV
> a secret but my wife loves the EV stickers and such so I left
> them there, and even added one that said Powered by American
> Electrons. Now that I found my drivers side window shattered
> when I came out from work my wife has changed her mind on that
> point.
I see two possibilities. One is that the broken window is unrelated to
the stickers. If that's the case, removing the stickers is pointless.
The other possibility is that it was deliberate, and prompted by your EV
stickers. In that case, removing the stickers means you are being
intimidated to give up your right to free speech by some mini-terrorist.
You need to decide if what you want to say is important enough to say it
even though others may violently disagree. I happen to think this is an
important issue; so I'm leaving my stickers on. Sure, I get an
occasional heckler, or angry gasoline buyer that wants to blame me for
his problems (because it's easier than blaming the ones *really*
responsible!). But for every one of them, I get dozens of others who are
in agreement with me, and say, "More power to you; go for it!"
I would rather speak up and be part of the solution than keep quiet and
be part of the problem.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe it was Bill Dube's "rule of thumb" that 800 lbs of floodeds equals
one gallon of gas.
i.e. if you convert a car that originally got 20mpg and load it with 800lbs of
floodies, you can expect 20 miles range.
remember rules of thumb are not concrete they are general, there is way to many
variables to say for certain whether a car will get more or less. For example..
A car in Kansas that gets 20 miles per charge will probably have a real tough
time getting 20 in 'Frisco.
Stay Charged!
Hump
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Strubhar
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 9:09 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 2000 mile range EV?
Danny, when it comes to lead acid batteries, a good way to estimate range IS
per pound - there is a formula somewhere for that. But you can't compare
other battery technologies that way.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: 2000 mile range EV?
> You're not seriously comparing these on a per-pound basis, are you??
> Sandbags are cheaper per pound than lead acid...
>
> You'd compare as $ per usable amp-hr as the primary figure. Not only
> can you multiply it by its expected lifespan versus another tech, but
> the lower weight means a lighter can so you should be able to get more
> range per unit of usable capacity. There's another multiplier. Of
> course other issues such as instantenous discharge capacity also need to
> be considered.
>
> I still don't buy that they've addressed the cell management and cell
> equalization issues of 10,000 cell banks.
>
> Danny
>
> STEVE CLUNN wrote:
>
> >>
> > Yes and at 80,000 for 1,000 lbs that's 80 a pound , not near as good
> > a deal and what people are using on the list . The 210 lbs pack that
> > I'm thinking of using for my lawn mower will only cost about $50 a
> > pound ,,,
> > I'd like to do a little serve
> >
> > If they started making a golf cart battery that weighted 4 times as
> > much 260 lbs ( for this serve we'll say same cycle life) , twice the
> > size but only cost $5 would anybody use them in an EV ?
> > for me this would be just unuseable .
> >
> > how much would you spend for a golf cart battery that weights 17 lbs
> > and 1/2 the size ?
> >
> > for my ev's I think I might go $150 or 3 time the cost for 1/4 weight
> > , but for the lawn mower $450 as the weight is very important / and
> > 800 lbs of lead will just make it unusable but 210 would work.
> >
> > as the Li-ion should get 4 times the cycles we;ll cut the price per
> > pound by 4 so our Li are $12.5 a lbs where the golf carts are 1 dollar .
> > steve clunn
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> This is very true, the reel mower cuts, where a blade mower pounds.
> I've never used a reel power mower but what Neon John says is what
> I've heard... small sticks and rocks (large gravel, really) quickly
> jammed the reels
I see large parks and golf courses that tow half a dozen or so reel
mowers behind a tractor to mow large areas. I haven't looked at them
closely, but I imagine they are better than the usual home push reel
mowers. Maybe they are built to deal with the rocks and sticks issue.
Or, maybe you just use them when you know the lawn, and don't have these
problems.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
> I just got my bat pack, 30 T-125's...I do not think I will be able
> to install them for at least the next 3 weeks so I should charge them.
> I remember somebody saying that if you put them all in parallel on
> a 12 vdc charger then they will get a trickle charge. Is that correct?
Well... T-125s are 6v batteries. Wire them in pairs so each pair is a
12v battery. Then connect all these pairs in parallel. Then you can
charge them all with a single 12v charger.
> charge came up to 6.20v for the string. Does this sound right?
Yes. 6.20v per 6v battery is "full" for a flooded.
If they are fully charged now, they can easily sit a few weeks with no
problem.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i confirm it's claimed to be 450A but this is under-rated , i seen too 500A
peak for few secondes before it drops, i make this once to "see the devil"
but carrefuly because i use Lynch motor ...what a power on my 300lbs scooter
I prefer staying at 350A peak to save lynch brushes and the big motorcycle
still have problems keeping close to me on first 50 meters :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: Alltrax 7245 controller
> Yes. I have one in my 72 volt CitiCar. Let's see, 780kg is about
> 1600 or so pounds. Yep, that's about what a Citi weighs with all the
> batteries and me in it. Performance is brisk and I run out of gearing
> but not power at about 50-55 mph.
>
> The Altrack is VASTLY better than the Curtis equiv. I had an
> "upgraded" 400 amp Curtis in the car before. It would not conduct 400
> amps. The Altrax has peaked at 500 amps. My Citi accelerates fast
> enough that the current fairly rapidly drops to the 300 amp range that
> the Altrax handles easily. The case barely gets warm.
>
> The data logging and the flexible throttle setup is nice too, but the
> major feature is its performance.
>
> One tip if you get one. The manual says that the unit can be bench
> programmed using a 12 volt battery. This is incorrect. The 72 volt
> version requires at least 24 volts to power up.
>
> I talked to one of the techs at Altrax and he told me that the
> absolute voltage limit should be considered to be 100 volts. If one
> makes sure that the pack is disconnected from the controller during
> charging, one can sneak in another battery or two for even better
> performance.
>
> John
>
> On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:10:40 +1000, "Robert Chew"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Hi all,
> >
> >has anyone ever successfully used a Alltrax 72 volt 450 amp controller in
> >their road going car that weighs roughly 780 kg. I am still thinking
whether
> >to go curtis. However, i am very attracted to the datalogging function of
> >the alltrax and also the much much lower price.
> >
> >Anyone in australia selling these controllers??
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sep 2, 2005, at 9:17 AM, Scott Fleischhauer wrote:
don't leave them on a cement floor, somehow the cement will discharge
them, it is best to have a board or something wood for them to sit on
That used to be true, but it's not true any more with today's batteries.
http://www.ibsa.com/www_2001/content/about_us/current/december_1999/
1199_techtalk.htm
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah because the pump won't compress in the other direction if turned
backwards. Depending on its construction it might compress in the same
direction, it might break outright, or it might produce some form of
backflow (probably breaking in short order).
The thing is, to make a heat pump, more has to be reversed than just the
flow. The expansion valve will not work backwards, but not only does it
need to be flipped but it's on the wrong side of the system. It should
be in the path before what was the condenser.
There are many other issues. First off ice should not be allowed to
form on the condenser and you can't allow freon coolant to get so cold
that liquid enters the compressor at the end of the loop.
Also the motor is not really "small". A/C requires a significant wattage.
Danny
Carl Clifford wrote:
I could put a small motor on the
compressor and turn it one way for heat, and the other
for air conditioning. Am I missing something
fundamental about automotive compressors or can they
be turned into heat pumps?
Thanks
Carl Clifford
Denver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The T-145's you have listed for $130.00 indicates a markup of 100 percent!!
The factory price is $45.00 and sell to the dealer for $65.00 and I bought them
for $85.00 which included the delivery charge right to my house from the Trojan
battery factory.
The local dealer still made $20.00 on each battery, which will take care of
warranties and replacements.
Make arrangements with the distributor that delivers the the batteries to the
dealers, to have the batteries deliver right to your home. No need to have a
pallet load of batteries deliver to a dealer, of which he does not test them
for voltage balance, provide a load test and a specific gravity test on each
one, unless you specific it and knows what they are doing and can do a accurate
test and record each battery on a battery chart.
If you start talking battery science to one of these battery dealers and they
look daze, then stay away from them.
Its best to do this your self which reduces the local dealers work on these
batteries.
This is still a 30% markup. Normally in industrial electrical items, the
markup is only 5% when the large groups of construction items are deliver to
the construction site from the factory and not threw a local dealer who will
received the 5% for paperwork.
You can call the Trojan Company to find out who is the closes distributor in
your region.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Cwarman<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 10:25 AM
Subject: Trojan Pricing
The closest Battery dealer to me is about 4 hours away, so i call up today to
get some pricing on Trojan batterys..Here is what they were, please reply with
this being a high or low number..or where i may be able to do better etc.
Trojan T-145 $130 per
Trojan T-125 $92 per
Trojan J-305G $165
Cwarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been trying to get some answers out of the Missouri Dept of Revenue (our
Dmv) and they are so behind the times that nothing about EV's is even on their
website!
I am trying to find out how to have my vehicle reclassified and avoid the
"smog" inspection.
Others in MO have licensed EV's but the people at the local offices don't have
a clue about what is going on!
Missouri always comes in last on anything like this.
Be glad that you live in a State that knows how to handle EVs.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
> From: bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2005/09/02 Fri AM 11:38:20 EST
> To: evlist <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: First trip to DMV
>
> I guess either each DMV office is different or things have changed
> since I registered my S-10 Blazer at the Santa Clara DMV office.
>
> I received my EV Aug 1992 at the hp Cupertino parking lot. There
> my EV was fresh from conversion by Solar Electric (now defunct).
> They had hauled it from Santa Rosa using their flat bed transport
> trailer and ol' pick up truck.
>
> Solar told me all I have to do is take the EV over to a DMV and
> have them inspect it before the DMV can register it as an Electric
> Vehicle.
>
> I drove it the couple of miles over to the Santa Clara DMV and
> parked in the front customer parking lot. Then I went and stood in
> the DMV information line to find out where to stand in the
> correct line.
>
> Once I had the right paperwork filled out and the fee paid, I was
> told to drive my EV around back to be inspected.
>
> I was in the same line with the people going for their drivers
> license driving test. They were idling their ICE, and my EV was
> off. When the DMV man came to me and found I needed an inspection
> not a driving test, he went back in to get the inspection
> procedure.
>
> I showed him the head, tail, brake, and signal lights all worked
> OK, the horn (Beep!), wipers, mirrors and then we went for a drive.
>
> He told me to slowly exit the DMV parking lot, and drive a bit
> on the city streets. He checked for proper braking at stop signs
> and that the vehicle performed to his satisfaction.
>
> After we returned from the brief ride, he signed off on the
> registration form and gave me the temporary permit form to put
> inside the back window.
>
> A few weeks later, the post office delivered my registration card,
> with my vehicle type designated as " E " for Electric Vehicle.
>
> Those were the daysbefore such a thing as an HOV sticker. I was
> just thrilled to be in the E category and driving Electric!
>
>
>
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> ===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roland,
They list only one local rep for these batterys and like i said they are
about 4 hours away.
The closest distributor is in NY, and im in Maine....
I really cant pay $130, but would pay $80-85 but i doubt they will
deliever them for that price from NY ?
Im unsure how to do those tests on the battery that you mentioned myself (
of which he does not test them for voltage balance, provide a load test and a
specific gravity test on each one, unless you specific it and knows what they
are doing and can do a accurate test and record each battery on a battery
chart. )
Cwarman
Roland Wiench wrote:
The T-145's you have listed for $130.00 indicates a markup of 100 percent!!
The factory price is $45.00 and sell to the dealer for $65.00 and I bought them for $85.00 which included the delivery charge right to my house from the Trojan battery factory.
The local dealer still made $20.00 on each battery, which will take care of warranties and replacements.
Make arrangements with the distributor that delivers the the batteries to the dealers, to have the batteries deliver right to your home. No need to have a pallet load of batteries deliver to a dealer, of which he does not test them for voltage balance, provide a load test and a specific gravity test on each one, unless you specific it and knows what they are doing and can do a accurate test and record each battery on a battery chart.
If you start talking battery science to one of these battery dealers and they look daze, then stay away from them.
Its best to do this your self which reduces the local dealers work on these batteries.
This is still a 30% markup. Normally in industrial electrical items, the markup is only 5% when the large groups of construction items are deliver to the construction site from the factory and not threw a local dealer who will received the 5% for paperwork.
You can call the Trojan Company to find out who is the closes distributor in
your region.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Cwarman<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 10:25 AM
Subject: Trojan Pricing
The closest Battery dealer to me is about 4 hours away, so i call up today to
get some pricing on Trojan batterys..Here is what they were, please reply with
this being a high or low number..or where i may be able to do better etc.
Trojan T-145 $130 per
Trojan T-125 $92 per
Trojan J-305G $165
Cwarman
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/616b.jpg
Look at the white car on the left. Anyone know what that is?
-Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Sep 2005 at 9:17, Scott Fleischhauer wrote:
> don't leave them on a cement floor, somehow the cement will discharge them, it
> is best to have a board or something wood for them to sit on
Sorry, Scott, with all due respect, this is a myth. If the batteries are
kept clean and dry, there is no harm in storing them on a concrete surface.
I've demonstrated this to my own satisfaction many times; I often store
batteries on the garage floor.
I emphasize though: keep them clean and dry.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2 Sep 2005 at 0:40, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> Fuel
> cells already are closer to effective use than batteries in
> range, cost and practicality, he says.
>
> Total B.S. What are we going to do about this blantant lying.
There is nothing we can do, or need to. In time, the Japanese and Chinese
automakers will demonstrate this statement's invalidity.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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--- Begin Message ---
Why, it's a lamborghini hovercar of course!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ryan Wright
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: EV identification
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/616b.jpg
Look at the white car on the left. Anyone know what that is?
-Ryan
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--- Begin Message ---
Even those who say "this was true at one time", I cannot see how. I'm
sure batteries could have been made of wood initially, I don't know.
I'm not sure how this would make the insulating capabilities of the
floor important. But concrete is an insulator for sure. Even wet
concrete will be a better situation than wet wood, because concrete can
dry out much faster. I just don't see how it would have mattered even
in the old timey situation.
Kinda curious now about how batteries were first made, before plastic.
Acid batteries would eat wood unless maybe it was wood soaked in wax.
I'd kinda think porcelin or glass would get used. But weren't a lot of
the early ones carbon-zinc, stuff that doesn't use corrosive electrolytes?
Danny
David Roden wrote:
On 2 Sep 2005 at 9:17, Scott Fleischhauer wrote:
don't leave them on a cement floor, somehow the cement will discharge them, it
is best to have a board or something wood for them to sit on
Sorry, Scott, with all due respect, this is a myth. If the batteries are
kept clean and dry, there is no harm in storing them on a concrete surface.
I've demonstrated this to my own satisfaction many times; I often store
batteries on the garage floor.
I emphasize though: keep them clean and dry.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a nice german reel mower for years. It was the best thing for cutting my
lawn as long as I didn't skip a mowing.
If the lawn is too long it didn't cut well. In the fall with all the sticks and
acorns it got jammed alot. Nothing I've ever had came close to doing a nicer
job, or providing better excercise.
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> This is very true, the reel mower cuts, where a blade mower pounds.
> I've never used a reel power mower but what Neon John says is what
> I've heard... small sticks and rocks (large gravel, really) quickly
> jammed the reels
I see large parks and golf courses that tow half a dozen or so reel
mowers behind a tractor to mow large areas. I haven't looked at them
closely, but I imagine they are better than the usual home push reel
mowers. Maybe they are built to deal with the rocks and sticks issue.
Or, maybe you just use them when you know the lawn, and don't have these
problems.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Depending on your need date, this may be a solution.
Find a golf course that has electric golf carts.
Find the golf cart maintained person.
Buy him a beer.
Ask when they will next be ordering batteries (usually in the spring).
See if you could tag along with his order (getting the golf cart high
volume rate).
See if you could get some of his used batteries for evaluation (enough
to hold you over until spring) Offer to take them for the core deposit
price.
Murder your first pack of used batteries this winter, and then have the
experience to maintain your second pack properly in the spring.
Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cwarman
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 12:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Trojan Pricing
Thanks Roland,
They list only one local rep for these batterys and like i said they are
about 4 hours away.
The closest distributor is in NY, and im in Maine....
I really cant pay $130, but would pay $80-85 but i doubt they will
deliever them for that price from NY ?
Im unsure how to do those tests on the battery that you mentioned myself
(
of which he does not test them for voltage balance, provide a load test
and a specific gravity test on each one, unless you specific it and
knows what they are doing and can do a accurate test and record each
battery on a battery chart. )
Cwarman
Roland Wiench wrote:
>The T-145's you have listed for $130.00 indicates a markup of 100
>percent!!
>
>The factory price is $45.00 and sell to the dealer for $65.00 and I
>bought them for $85.00 which included the delivery charge right to my
house from the Trojan battery factory.
>
>The local dealer still made $20.00 on each battery, which will take
>care of warranties and replacements.
>
>Make arrangements with the distributor that delivers the the batteries
>to the dealers, to have the batteries deliver right to your home. No
need to have a pallet load of batteries deliver to a dealer, of which he
does not test them for voltage balance, provide a load test and a
specific gravity test on each one, unless you specific it and knows what
they are doing and can do a accurate test and record each battery on a
battery chart.
>
>If you start talking battery science to one of these battery dealers
>and they look daze, then stay away from them.
>
>Its best to do this your self which reduces the local dealers work on
>these batteries.
>
>This is still a 30% markup. Normally in industrial electrical items,
>the markup is only 5% when the large groups of construction items are
deliver to the construction site from the factory and not threw a local
dealer who will received the 5% for paperwork.
>
>You can call the Trojan Company to find out who is the closes
>distributor in your region.
>
>Roland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Cwarman<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 10:25 AM
> Subject: Trojan Pricing
>
>
> The closest Battery dealer to me is about 4 hours away, so i call up
> today to get some pricing on Trojan batterys..Here is what they were,
> please reply with this being a high or low number..or where i may be
> able to do better etc.
>
> Trojan T-145 $130 per
> Trojan T-125 $92 per
> Trojan J-305G $165
>
>
> Cwarman
>
>
>.
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
