EV Digest 4665
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Realization
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Another Newbie - delurking - beam me up scottie
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Realization
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Iota DC/DC. What to use.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: White Zombie Rips a 12.598 @ 103.92 mph at the Woodburn Drags!
by "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: starting to research - boat
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Why Iota is working so well.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV Feeding Frenzy
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Lexus commercial
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Iota Ham powersupply.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: starting to research - boat
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV Feeding Frenzy
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV Feeding Frenzy
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) The Alternative Energy Future: Michigan's Destiny
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EV Feeding Frenzy
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Shunt motor regen setup
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Shunt motor regen setup
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) What's a Bombardier?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: Why Iota is working so well.
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I just realized something really neat. I've driven over 200 miles with my
E-10 and haven't bought a drop of gas!!! Actually, I think its even better
that my wife had to eat a little crow. Since I bought the trucks, my wife
was a little disheartened about the time I was spending on getting them
running and all the time on the trip to Arizona to pick them up as well as
some of the extra expenses that she wasn't too ready for. Well, when gas
hit $3.00 and then some she was telling friends that she was really glad I
did it and how fortuitous it was that I jumped on buying them when I did.
It's not very often us guys get to see our wives eat crow. I savored the
moment. Then when back to honey do's.
Jeff Wilson
USA (Ret)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello from the U.K - Intro from me, I am 40 and live about halfway between
London and Dover in the town of Maidstone and have been interested in EV for
a number of years but family and work have always stopped me from getting
started.
Although I have been considering an EV for a while the increase in Petrol
(gas) prices in the UK to about $9 per imp gallon thats about $10 per US
gallon has pushed me over the edge and I have in the last couple of weeks
decided (unless anyone puts me off) to buy an engine busted Porsche 924 for
conversion to an EV as they are quite cheap being a less popular Porsche
model with lots of room for batteries.
I have seen a few (about 3) internet sites and description from USA, of
people who have converted these models but if there is anyone across the
pond (or in the UK) who has converted the 924 or the 944 or similar Porsche
models I would like to be able to "pick their brains" before finally
committing to a motor, controller and battery type.
Even if you have not done the 924/944 other tips and tricks for initial
sizing of motor and cells and complexities of producing an adaptor plate
would be very welcome. I plan to do most of the mechanicals including the
milling of an adaptor plate (with help) and building monitoring electronics
for looking after the bat pack.
All advice very welcome
TIA
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's not very often us guys get to see our wives eat crow. I savored the
moment. Then when back to honey do's.
Yup. My wife is now using the Prizm for most of her driving; this
however means I walk the mile or so to the train station :-)
Still, it's nice to have a car that's easy enough to learn. The only
real things are watch the E-meter bars, don't drive over 20 miles per
charge, and make sure it's charged (2 hrs) before driving again.
Aside from that, she's in business.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got a URL? LR............
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 5:40 AM
Subject: RE: Iota DC/DC. What to use.
I bought a 55 amp 120 VAC model on eBay for $90. I am using it with a 120 V
pack, works fine. I do not need 55 amps for my car, it runs cool and the
smart fan does not even need to run. This extra capacity may come in handy
some day (possibly a sound system).
Rick Barnes
Aloha, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 12:55 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Iota DC/DC. What to use.
Roderick Wilde is using a 120v Iota (30amp version) in Gone Postal. Gone
Postal is 240vdc as far as I know. Others have used the same model at
lesser voltages. One person said they used the 220v Iota at 144vdc. Does
it make a difference? Why are these devices working at obviously varied
voltages and above and below their ratings? I'd like to pay the least
amount for one of these devices. I think I can get by with 30 amps. That
one is close to 100 dollars.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Plasmaboy never, never lifts.
ooooh. that's good.
I think it was a great racing weekend because there was so little
hardware failure. Folks are building better gear and approacing the
limits more systematically.
My thanks go out to all the racers and out-of-towners (especially
both). I promise I will join you with my spanky MG Midget as soon as I
am able. Though I think we should ask those who didn't bring their
vehicle, "Why? Can we do something different to get more participants?"
NEDRA deserves MAD PROPS for doing this year after year... a lot of
effort so a few (6?) racers can have their day in the sun (literally
and figuratively - maybe we should sell commemorative tubes of
NEDRA/OEVA sunscreen at the track).
Though there were not enough cars racing, the quality was very high.
Rick Barnes drove his Chevy EV down from Portland, stopping to charge
on the way (RV park), paving the way for the rest of us to build on
for Woodburn and any other points South. Gone Postal, White Zombie,
Silver Bullet, and Cloud's Creation are all ambitious, innovative, and
intelligent works that you really have to see to appreciate. The fan
car was there tooling around, as well as a cool green Smart car
(diesel, or as Bob Rice put it, diseasel). And a menagerie of scooters
and e-bikes as it should be. Sorry I missed Victor's all-capacitor
burnout.
NEDRA/Wayland's Friday night drags at PIR were great fun (night
racing, big crowd), plus you get to watch the ICE cars too :)
-GT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
eCycle has been around for a long time but has yet to produce a mass
produced product. They claim they will build one for you. Buyer beware on
this one. Check out our electric boat links list at:
http://www.suckamps.com/index.php?page=links#boats
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Niessen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: starting to research - boat
At 9/6/2005 04:34 AM, you wrote:
I would like to start researching converting my sailboat aux. engine to
electric.
You might check out http://ecyclemarine.com/ as they have already built
systems for this.
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--- Begin Message ---
Below is the blurb from a big Iota Ebay seller. They outline that the 120v
version can handle 190v spikes & is brown out protected that means it runs
on lower voltage. I have no relation to these guys but they seem to know
what they are talking about. They also say there are three different levels
of Iota regarding shielding. The best being the pure power supply.
Lawrence Rhodes.
You have seen us for over 10 years at all major hamfests and communications
shows from Maine to Georgia.
We are industrial distributors: See our other Ebay auctions for 15 amp; 30
amp; 45 amp; 75 amp; 90 amp models.
Power Supply is BRAND NEW - Sealed in Factory Box.
WE DO NOT sell USED TAKEOUTS re-boxed to look like new, WE DO NOT
sell STOLEN UNITS ( if the price is too low there is a good reason )
and WE DO NOT sell REFURBISHED units.
WE ARE FACTORY DIRECT AUTHORIZED IOTA FACTORY DISTRIBUTORS. ALL
OUR PRODUCTS COME DIRECTLY FROM THE IOTA FACTORY. ALL IOTA
PRODUCTS, FROM US, COME WITH A REAL FACTORY WARRANTY, NOT A FAKE
WARRANTY THAT THE FACTORY WILL REFUSE TO HONOR AFTER YOU HAVE
PAID YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY.
WE ARE THE ' ONLY ' AUTHORIZED IOTA FACTORY DISTRIBUTORS SELLING
ON EBAY.
THIS IS THE HEAVY DUTY INDUSTRIAL MODEL WITH FEATURES AND QUALITY
NOT FOUND IN STANDARD MODELS.
WE ARE ENGINEERS AND CAN ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS, EVEN ON THE
PHONE IF REQUESTED and WE WILL CALL YOU - FREE.
NO ONE CAN OFFER BETTER ADVISE OR INSTALLATION HELP !
Made by Iota Engineering, the largest manufacturer of these INDUSTRIAL
QUALITY power supplies. IOTA IS THE MAJOR MANUFACTURER behind the
scenes and they manufacture DOZENS of major US Brand Names.
WHY invest your hard earned money in CHINESE GARBAGE when you can have
TOP QUALITY USA ENGINEERED PRODUCTS. IOTA TECHNOLOGY is the
STANDARD OF THE INDUSTRY and far superior to the competition. DON'T
BE FOOLED BY CHEAPER PRICES ON " SIMILAR " PRODUCTS.
These are the BEST POSSIBLE QUALITY power supplies of this type
available on the market today. They are used to supply power to governmental
and commercial communications systems, etc.
Iota has a FACTORY TWO YEAR WARRANTY parts and labor and the best
warranty in the industry. Astron, Tripp-Lite warranties are Only One Year.
Iota is CERTIFIED 100% Duty Cycle @ 55 CONTINUOUS AMPS - Industrial Quality.
Astron, Tripp-Lite, Pyramid are ONLY 50% duty cycle; ONE HALF the power.
Battery Charger, Converter and Power Supply are names that describe
virtually the same product. Batter Chargers are usually not filtered and
will cause interference to TVs and Communications Radios; Converters are
usually only slightly better filtered; Quality Power Supplies are completely
filtered and will not cause interference.
These CERTIFIED Industrial/Commercial Communications Power Supplies and are
FULLY RF / TVI filtered for Marine HF and VHF communications and onboard
electronics, Commercial Radio systems, CB and Ham radios HF and VHF, TV's,
etc. They are, also, Industrial TOUGH. They can easily operate 12 vdc
appliances like coffee makers, toaster ovens, refrigerators, 12 vdc motors
and pumps, etc.
VERY IMPORTANT to Boaters, RV'ers and Reteater owners: These battery
chargers/power supplies are protected against Line Voltage Spikes to 190+
vac and Brownouts
( ESPECIALLY IF YOU USE A GENERATOR THAT CAN SPIKE TO 180 VOLTS ).
The electrical systems at many Marinas and RV parks leave a lot to desired.
Many are in rural areas or are overloaded during peak seasons making them
subject to Brownouts then High Voltage Power Surges and broken grounds, etc.
These supplies are the ONLY FULLY SELF PROTECTING supplies/chargers
available of this type.
TWO, THREE or more Iota supplies can be COMBINED for additional AMPERAGE
demand. Easy to upgrade.
Iota power supplies are 60% more efficient than conventional supplies.
Astron, Tripp-lite, Pyramid COST TWICE as much to operate. Iota power
supplies will pay for themselves within 3 years of ham shack or 1 year of
continuous usage.
Iotas have Constant Voltage / Pure DC Output and are regulated / filtered.
Iota's thermally controlled fan is smaller and MUCH MORE QUIET.
Iota supplies are Overload, Over-temperature, Over-current and Brown-out
input Protected.
Iota supplies are DUAL VOLTAGE: 14.2 vdc for equipment operation and full
battery charging; 13.4 vdc for maintaining auto, commercial, deep cycle and
gel BACKUP batteries. Iota's are protected against reverse polarity on the
DC output. All supplies have external user replaceable fuses. They ALSO,
have AUTOMATIC resetable internal circuit breakers for voltage spikes.
Excellent HEAVY DUTY WORKHORSE power supply for CONTINUOUS operation of
Fire, Police, Government, Commercial and Ham REPEATERS. Low Cost, Reliable
and Maintenance Free Operation.
Iota uses ( 3 ) heavy duty Industrial screw clamps accepting UP TO 4 ga
cable ( power+, power- and chassis ground ), instead of light duty banana
plugs or fragile ring connectors. The larger cable capacity allows for
heavier current handling ( because of 100% Continuous Duty Cycle ) and / or
remote location of supply without lowering output line voltage to equipment.
Fully RF and TVI filtered and capable of operating a HF/VHF/UHF Ham,
Commercial or HF/VHF Marine radio station.
Capable of operating entire RV, Boat or Remote Control DC Power System and
Unlimited 12vdc Multi-bank Battery Charging.
Size is: 7" long (x) 6.75" wide (x) 3.75" high.
Input voltage is 108 to 132 vac and 40-70 Hz and consumes ONLY 1100 watts at
full demand. Can be operating using a standard 15 amp household receptacle.
Iota's are protected against momentary line voltage spikes to 190+ vac.
Iota's can be modified for 220 vac input AND 24 output vdc at 25 and 50 amp
outputs ( contact us for more info ).
We are the LOWEST PRICE source in the USA for these supplies. Nowhere in the
USA will you be able to purchase any NEW power supply of this SIZE and
QUALITY cheaper.
CHECK OUR FEEDBACK and BID WITH CONFIDENCE.
The power supply retails for $ 450.00. We are not giving them away, but,
since we are Hams, too, our minimum bid is very reasonable for the SIZE and
QUALITY of these supplies. All products carry manufacturers warranty only.
We are Professional Systems Designers / Installers and Industrial
Distributors. We are available to answer any questions regarding your
specific needs. Feel free to e-mail your needs before bidding if you have
questions pertaining to any special usage or project.
NEEDED FOR FULLTIME BATTERY CHARGING. IQ-4 Microprocessor-controller
( FACTORY OPTIONAL @ $ 35.00 ) turns the supply into a "Automatic TRUE 3
STAGE Smart Charger" allowing Bulk, Absorption, Float stage charging AND
AUTOMATIC EQUALIZATION. This option increases the charging capacity of the
supply, decreases charge times and insures proper and safe battery
conditioning without overheating or overcharging and eliminates the need for
constant monitoring over long periods of non-use. Not needed for power
supply use.
See our other Ebay auctions for 15 amp; 30 amp; 45 amp; 75 amp; 90 amp
models.
ALL SALES FINAL - NO REFUNDS. RETURNS OR EXCHANGES ON ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT.
COVERED BY 2-YEAR FACTORY WARRANTY.
SHIPPING: FED-EX Ground / Insured / To lower 48 states for $ 15.00. We will
ship to Alaska, Hawaii and Internationally, buyer pays all actual costs and
MUST arrange payment by e-mail before bidding. CANADA FLAT SHIPPING IS
$ 30.00 / USD.
PAYMENT BY: PAYPAL, U.S. Postal, American Express, Western Union or
Travelers Money Orders ONLY ( NO BANK checks, Bank drafts or Bank money
orders and NO Personal Checks). Payment MUST be received within 7
days from end of auction. . International buyers: Payment MUST be arranged
by e-mail before bidding. E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for additional
info.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No feeding frenzy here in Port Townsend, Washington. I am selling a 1980 Jet
Electrica for a lady who bought a Prius. It is upgraded to 108 volts, has
fairly new batteries, a Curtis controller upgrade and DC to DC converter at
$5,500.00 and it has been in the paper for six weeks and no inquires at all
until recently from just one person from Eastern Washington. I have a name
for the people in this town which I can't say on this list but I can say
that I also call it the land of SUVs with Save the Planet bumper stickers. I
did not make this up. It is true. I was following an SUV a while back on my
electric scooter. It had only one bumper sticker on the back. It had a
picture of an Indian chief to the left and it said: The Earth does not
belong to us, We belong to the Earth. Go figure! Just one of several reasons
we moved our business to the next county.
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 5:19 AM
Subject: EV Feeding Frenzy
Howdy Folk's,
I had my E-jeep (Geo Tracker) in Roanoke, VA on Ebay this week-end and
people from as far away as Co Spgs flew in to see it and take a ride. A
couple guys rode their motorcycles from Tennessee. A couple from PA
wanted to strap a windmill on the roof and drive forever, offered $9k but
I ended up selling to a guy in NY at $9.1k who got the final bid in the
last 10 seconds of the auction at 1:40am Monday morning.
I directed all the EV wannabees to www.evalbum.com to buy there. A lot
were "fair weather" EV'ers, clueless people who just want one cause the
gas is high and will probably comit "battricide" as Lee says. ( I've
driven EV's for 30 years before EV's were cool). I felt like a carnival
ride guy.
Now to work on the Bombardier I bought off Ebay last week for $4.2k from
Atlanta, drove a dump truck down to pick up. Say does anyone know where
to get or make hard doors for a Bombardier? If I can't find something, I
was thinking of using Lexan or aluminum plate.
Have a Renewable Energy Day, Mark
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--- Begin Message ---
Obviously because they would look really bad having such EVs blow their
doors of. They had to go with something that would make BEVs look bad in
order for them to look good. The problem is that too many people will
believe it...
Jeff Wilson
USA (Ret)
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Cover [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 7:28 AM
To: EVList
Subject: Lexus commercial
I saw the Lexus hybrid commercial this weekend, the one they used the
Sparrows, solar racers and other EVs in. It wasn't too bad, just lumped all
the EV into one bucket. I only saw it once and didn't realize this was the
one until it was half over.
They show a group of all EV going down the road in formation and the Lexus
weaving in and out of them and passing them by. It implies that EVs have no
performance. How come they didn't include White Zombie, Goldie, or any of
the other EV's we know so well?
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is where I got the info on the Iota. They say the Ham powersupply is
the best shielded. Do we need this extra level in our EV's?
5806071065 Ham powersupply.
http://cgi.ebay.com/55-AMP-IOTA-POWER-SUPPLY-HAM-RADIO-RV-MARINE-CB-NEW_W0QQitemZ5806071065QQcategoryZ48708QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here are some electric boat links to get you started.
This system by Asmo Marine is based on the B+S Etek motor and Sevcon
MilliPak controller which are pretty standard now for sailboat drives-
http://asmomarine.com/2005/asmo_uk/00.shtml
Etek-
http://www.cloudelectric.com/item.jhtml?UCIDs=866086%7C1321118&PRID=1114811
MilliPak-
http://www.cloudelectric.com/item.jhtml?UCIDs=866086%7C1321279&PRID=1368948
Some electric boat projects, many using the Etek, with details-
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/boats.html
An electric boat list on Yahoo-
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/
Please see my links page for more electric boating links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
HTH!
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a side note on the demand for EVs. As most of you know, I run the EV
Album at http://evalbum.com and the EV Tradin' Post at
http://evtradinpost.com (BTW, please use the short URLs when linking to the
sites). Anyway, since the discussion of demand for EVs came up, I thought
I would check to see if the rate of response to EV Tradin' Post ads is
increasing. O boy, it sure is! Check this out.
Month/Year Number of Responses
08/2004 74
09/2004 87
10/2004 120
11/2004 173
12/2004 128
01/2005 135
02/2005 182
03/2005 272
04/2005 284
05/2005 243
06/2005 164
07/2005 259
08/2005 343
09/2005 108 so far and its only the 6th!
Even though the EV Tradin' Post has been up for years, I only went to the
automated format with response forms in August of 2004, so I have no idea
how much traffic it was getting before then.
If you haven't had a chance it check it out yet, be sure to see the EV
Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com The current count is 637 EVs, but I
have a number pending that I will try to get posted ASAP. If you haven't
submitted your EV to the Album, please consider doing so. Every EV can
inspire, help inspire more EVs.
Also, the EV Tradin' Post at http://evtradinpost.com is a completely free
site for folks to buy and sell EVs and parts. With the automated system,
most ads go up in less than 12 hours, and your email address is hidden from
spammers unless you choose to include it in your ad. The system uses a
response form so they don't need to see your email address to answer your ad.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, The main reason for "downsizing" was of course the batteries as you
mentioned but my electric rates have doubled. The neighbors 1/4 mile away
pay 5.8c per kWh and I pay 12.66c as of June when there was another 26%
jump. (At 25c kWh a $90k photovoltaic system would be justified which
probably isn't far away at the rate my electric has been increasing) I've
been looking at every appliance in the house with my kWh meter, connected
the WaterFurnace to thermal transfer another 20% with the septic (GeoPoop)
put a Chevy radiator on the dryer tied to the solar panels, integrated a
heat pump into the hot water heater with the solar panels, all flourescent
lighting of course and put all the ghost loads on a single switch. So I
saved 40% by switching to Gieco :-) I also added more insulation and more
caulking around windows, doors, siding. Jerry's efficiency talking got me
looking at the EV thinking why do I need a 4000lb vehicle to shove a 190lb
me around when a 1200lb vehicle will do with half the batteries. I looked
at the Cushman which is doable but only a single seater and would be nice to
have two. The Tracker uses 20 batts every 10k miles or 10c per mile battery
cost and 556Wh measured at the plug or 7c per mile, total 17c per mile
(actual "fuel" cost). My 500cx Kawasaki MC at 60 mpg at $3.20 per gallon is
5.3c per mile. My Ford Ranger at 27mpg is 11.8c per mile. So to compete
cost wise a 250Wh per mile vehicle, mini or micro car (I'd love a BMW Isetta
if I could get parts, the Ercle Modile) would be 3c per mile (at 12.66c per
kWh) and with 9ea 8V'ers cost $500 per 10k miles or 5c per mile, total cost
8c per mile which is now comparible with other modes of transportation.
Yeah, I know EV's don't have oil changes & tuneups but those are minor
compared to pulling out 1200lbs of lead and replacing every 10k miles.
(sometimes I'd get 14k miles in my Electro-Metro with Trojan 6V'ers if I
always drove like grandma).
Have a Renewable Energy Day, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: EV Feeding Frenzy
> On 6 Sep 2005 at 8:19, Mark Hanson wrote:
>
> > I had my E-jeep (Geo Tracker) on Ebay ... ended up selling to a
> > guy in NY at $9.1k ....
> >
> > Now to work on the Bombardier I bought off Ebay last week for $4.2k from
> > Atlanta ...
>
> Most people go the other way - dispose of a low-speed EV to do a
conversion
> that is highway capable. Mark has come full circle now, from a
Comuta-Car,
> to a convertered Geo Metro and then the Tracker, now back to an NEV type
> vehicle. From what I understand this was for a reason that's worth
noting:
> the heavier vehicles had battery amortization costs that he felt were too
> high (even though they were flooded batteries).
>
> Given the electronic design work that Mark puts into all his conversions,
> I'm looking forward to hearing what he does to the Bombardier. A couple
> years from now I suspect that little NEV's own mother won't be able to
> recognize it.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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> Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
> send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Alternative Energy Future: Michigan's Destiny
September 21, 2005
Sponsored by the University of Michigan and Lansing Community College
Exhibits and Vehicles: State Capitol Building Front Lawn, 9:30 a.m.-1:30 p.m.
Lunch Forum: Mackinac Room, Anderson House Office Building, 11:30
a.m.-1:30 p.m.
See current alternative energy products displayed on the front lawn
of the State Capitol Building. Then, join industry leaders,
researchers, educators, and officials as they discuss Michigan's role
in bringing Alternative Energy to the American and global marketplace!
http://www.lcc.edu/energy/future/
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
See comment below:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: EV Feeding Frenzy
> David Roden wrote:
> > Most people... dispose of a low-speed EV to do a conversion that
> > is highway capable. Mark has come full circle now, from a Comuta-Car,
> > to a convertered Geo Metro and then the Tracker, now back to an NEV
> > type vehicle. From what I understand this was for a reason that's
> > worth noting: The heavier vehicles had battery amortization costs
> > that he felt were too high (even though they were flooded batteries).
>
> I'm thinking along the same lines. I live in a small town. Most of my
> driving is local; less than 10 miles round trip where the speed limit is
> never over 40 mph. I have a Prius hybrid long trips, and it is clear
> that nothing I build in my garage is going to be able the match it.
>
> I thought back to what car "put America on wheels". It was the Ford
> model T. It was slow, uncomfortable, unreliable -- but simple and cheap!
> Today, the auto companies have abandoned such cars (no money it them).
> But I think the need for such cars still exists. People are forced to
> satisfy it with used cars, but they aren't all that cheap either. And
> given the tremendous complexity of modern cars, cheap used cars are
> often broken, and difficult and expensive to fix.
>
> So I'm thinking... What if there was an EV "model T"? Simple, reliable,
> with performance good enough for the usual around-town driving. And
> above all, cheap (or Joe Average will ignore it).
>
> Strangely enough, I think the old CitiCar/ComutaCar/ComutaVan is the
> best example of this concept. They were simple, reliable, and cheap.
> They were fully street-legal and licensed as normal cars (not NEVs). My
> ComutaVan had a top speed of 55 mph, allowing (careful) freeway use.
> These cars came out after the 1974 Arab Oil Embargo, and thousands were
> quickly sold. I see a similar situation today; if CitiCars were
> available now, they would sell fast!
>
> But, these old designs were tragically flawed. Built in a hurry by a
> tiny inexperienced company, they had *lots* of design errors and quality
> problems. The concept was good, but the implementation was bad.
>
> Then I think back to the "best buy" EV I have ever seen. It was a 1916
> Detroit Electric. 30 mph top speed, 80 mile range. Over 50% of its
> weight was in batteries; 18 6v (the original Edison cells were still
> being used!) 5.5hp compound-wound motor. 5-step contactor controller.
> Regenerative braking. 30" high-pressure low-rolling resistance tires.
> Huge, comfortable 5-passenger interior. Silent, smooth, reliable, easy
> to drive... all for just $2700 new. This car makes modern NEVs look like
> toys.
>
> So what if the engineering elegance and fit-and-finish of the antique
> Detroit was combined with the CitiCar/ComutaCar/ComutaVan components.
> You could have an elegant, comfortable, reliable EV built out of common,
> ordinary components. Buy an old junked Citicar just to get the title.
> "Restore" it like a Detroit Electric!
>
> The Detroit is minivan-sized and over 6 feet tall (people could wear top
> hats inside). 3/4 scale would be about the size of the CitiCar.
> The Detroit might actually be more streamlined; looking down from above
> the body cross-section is rounded (rather than horizontally rounded like
> most cars).
>
> Copy the Detroit controller, but use a modern golf cart sepex motor and
> rear axle. Change to skinny motorcycle-like tires to lower rolling
> resistance. Keep the batteries low and under the seat for low C.G. Put a
> solar panel on the roof. You could even install a 120vac air conditioner
> (running on an inverter) for heating and air conditioning.
>
> What do you think?
Yes, sometimes I think :-) The Bomb has a Sepex control with regen and I'm
changing the tires to 12" skinny radials but I'll have to build doors or get
Jeep-like doors. They had "cloth doors" which are a joke. I'll bump the
speed to 45mph and use 9ea 8Ver's instead of the 6ea 12V batts they had
sealed under the seats (for 97-99' models). They corrected this in 2000 by
putting flooded's back in and making the batteries accessible but it was too
little too late and they stopped making them and also the $10k price tag was
too high for 1/2 a car that was federally limited to 25mph. Comparing this
thing to the s**ity car, it actually has real brakes & steering, not the
Club Car type Sebring-Vanguard had.
Have a nice day, Mark
> --
> Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has! -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Thomasson wrote:
> As another option, an easy way to do regen is with a permanent
> magnet DC motor and a contactor controller. While cruising at a
> given voltage and speed, drop down to a lower voltage and the
> motor regens down to the speed corresponding to that voltage level.
> The more the voltage is dropped, the stronger the regen. No
> reversing contactor is needed. Simple and elegant.
Yes, that works. The main drawback is your control of the regen (and
motoring) current is very abrupt. A good PM motor like the Lynch, Lemco,
or Etek tries hard to turn at a constant speed (proportional to the
applied voltage. This means when you change voltage step (say, 24v to
48v), there is a drastic increase in motor current and a strong "lurch"
as it tries to instantly accellerate to its 48v rpm. Likewise, when you
switch back down from 48v to 24v you get a huge regen current and abrupt
braking as the motor tries to instantly slow down to its 24v rpm.
Series motors aren't nearly so abrupt; their current (and thus torque)
changes less than 2:1 for a 2:1 voltage step.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote,
>> If I were you, I'd look into adding a separate generator or
>> alternator for regen. This could be as simple as a belt and
>> pulley off the back of the traction motor to spin an automotive
>> alternator.
Tim Stephenson wrote:
> I like the simplicity of your suggestion. But how would I get
> this to charge the propulsion pack at 72-120 volts?
The field winding of an alternator controls the voltage and current it
produces. In normal use, there is an internal or external voltage
regulator that adjusts the field current to get about 14v (which is
correct for a 12v battery).
If you remove or disconnect this regulator, and control the field
directly (for example, with a rheostat to +12v), you can get any voltage
up to 120vdc or more. The maximum voltage is limited by the breakdown
voltage of the diodes inside the alternator. They are nominally 50-100v,
but often have enough safety margin to work well past this. This is how
those cheap little "get 120 volts from your alternator" boxes that are
advertised in the back of Popular Science do it.
The voltage from the alternator is also proportional to rpm. At full
field (12v on the field) you just barely get 14vdc at idle (600 rpm).
Keep the field at 12v and run your engine up to 10x the speed (6000
rpm), and you get 10x the voltage (140vdc).
Note that the belt drive pulleys typically spin the alternator about
twice as fast as the engine. Alternators routinely operate well past
12,000 rpm.
Obviously, alternators aren't built for these voltages. If the diodes
fail (or you just want to be sure they don't) replace with
higher-voltage diodes. Likewise, they don't bother to insulate them very
well; the insulation may break down somewhere unless you epoxy or
otherwise add insulation.
You'll have to build your own voltage regulator. This isn't hard; it can
be as simple as the old 3-relay regulators used in cars, or a more
modern electronic regulator. Or, just use a field rheostat linked to you
brake pedal accellerator, or some hand control and adjust as needed to
get the desired braking force.
Also, remember that the negative side is grounded to the case.
Propulsion batteries are NOT grounded! You must either take the
alternator apart and disconnect the wires to the case and bring them out
to a separate negative terminal; or mount the entire alternator off
ground and belt drive it (and add enough guards so no one can touch the
case)!
> And does anyone have a clue as to how much drag this might add?
Spin an alternator by hand; they take almost nothing to spin with no
load. You don't need a clutch to disconnect them. If you belt drive it,
the belt will produce all your no-load losses. A properly adjusted
v-belt isn't bad, but it is a fraction of a HP loss.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Named after Joseph-Armand Bombardier, inventor of the Ski-Doo, the Bombardier,
along with its competitor, the Trans2, before U.S. DOT ever created a special
class for NEVs.
Even though they targeted the U.S. Sunbelt, i.e., gated communities and
jurisdictions that encourage the use of pollution-free vehicles with low
maximum speeds, the parent company, Bombardier, perceived a lack of a potential
market and bowed out after four years (1996-2000) of limited production.
Nonetheless, the Bombardier set a standard for advanced features. Some say that
the Th!nk City was modeled after this Canadian low speed vehicle. In
appearance, it resembles what now appears in the Clean Cities list as a Dynasty.
If considering purchasing a Bombardier, consider that you may need to add some
safety features for it to be "street-legal" in states that allow NEVs.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just bought an Iota 55A from this seller "associated1".
They could certainly do better with their communications. They require
you wait for an email from them with the total, despite the fact that
the shipping is clearly $15 flat-rate in the auction. I got the email,
and it tells you that you have to do paypal manually by going to the
paypal site and choosing "send money," and including all the auction
information. This is in lieu of simply choosing "pay now" on the
auction page and paying via paypal that way. The email I received was
clearly automated, and attempted to sell the (not necessary for power
supply usage) charging controller ("Just add $35 to the amount of your
purchase,"), which is why they want you to "send money" the hard way,
not to "properly send you a receipt."
In any case, I paid at 7:30am on Sept. 1, and this seller claims 48
hours to ship items via FedEx. On Friday, 2 Sept, I politely asked for
a tracking number. Even if you don't count Thursday, the item should
ship today at the latest. This seller has a 98.4% feedback rating, and
the negatives and neutrals seem to be over communication, shipping
delays, and tracking numbers. One of the complaints was "doesn't give
full rated power," but there isn't enough information to figure out what
the item was, as it was too old.
Having said that, these items are well spoken of by list members, and
seem to be (by far) the best bang for the buck in terms of watts
delivered vs. price. I ended up paying $125 for the DLS 55 model. Two
year factory warranty. Dunno if it's voided by running on DC.
Chances are, you can get a better deal if you want to bid and wait. I
was recently out-bid (sniped) on a lot of 10 Vicor 200W 150VDC in, 12VDC
out DC-DC modules. Ow.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Below is the blurb from a big Iota Ebay seller. They outline that the
120v version can handle 190v spikes & is brown out protected that
means it runs on lower voltage. I have no relation to these guys but
they seem to know what they are talking about. They also say there
are three different levels of Iota regarding shielding. The best
being the pure power supply. Lawrence Rhodes.
You have seen us for over 10 years at all major hamfests and
communications shows from Maine to Georgia.
We are industrial distributors: See our other Ebay auctions for 15
amp; 30 amp; 45 amp; 75 amp; 90 amp models.
Power Supply is BRAND NEW - Sealed in Factory Box.
WE DO NOT sell USED TAKEOUTS re-boxed to look like new, WE
DO NOT sell STOLEN UNITS ( if the price is too low there is a
good reason ) and WE DO NOT sell REFURBISHED units.
WE ARE FACTORY DIRECT AUTHORIZED IOTA FACTORY DISTRIBUTORS.
ALL OUR PRODUCTS COME DIRECTLY FROM THE IOTA FACTORY. ALL
IOTA PRODUCTS, FROM US, COME WITH A REAL FACTORY WARRANTY,
NOT A FAKE WARRANTY THAT THE FACTORY WILL REFUSE TO HONOR
AFTER YOU HAVE PAID YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY.
WE ARE THE ' ONLY ' AUTHORIZED IOTA FACTORY DISTRIBUTORS
SELLING ON EBAY.
THIS IS THE HEAVY DUTY INDUSTRIAL MODEL WITH FEATURES AND
QUALITY NOT FOUND IN STANDARD MODELS.
WE ARE ENGINEERS AND CAN ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS, EVEN ON
THE PHONE IF REQUESTED and WE WILL CALL YOU - FREE.
NO ONE CAN OFFER BETTER ADVISE OR INSTALLATION HELP !
Made by Iota Engineering, the largest manufacturer of these
INDUSTRIAL QUALITY power supplies. IOTA IS THE MAJOR
MANUFACTURER behind the scenes and they manufacture DOZENS of major
US Brand Names.
WHY invest your hard earned money in CHINESE GARBAGE when you can
have TOP QUALITY USA ENGINEERED PRODUCTS. IOTA TECHNOLOGY is
the STANDARD OF THE INDUSTRY and far superior to the
competition. DON'T BE FOOLED BY CHEAPER PRICES ON " SIMILAR "
PRODUCTS.
These are the BEST POSSIBLE QUALITY power supplies of this type
available on the market today. They are used to supply power to
governmental and commercial communications systems, etc.
Iota has a FACTORY TWO YEAR WARRANTY parts and labor and the best
warranty in the industry. Astron, Tripp-Lite warranties are Only One
Year.
Iota is CERTIFIED 100% Duty Cycle @ 55 CONTINUOUS AMPS - Industrial
Quality. Astron, Tripp-Lite, Pyramid are ONLY 50% duty cycle; ONE HALF
the power.
Battery Charger, Converter and Power Supply are names that describe
virtually the same product. Batter Chargers are usually not filtered
and will cause interference to TVs and Communications Radios;
Converters are usually only slightly better filtered; Quality Power
Supplies are completely filtered and will not cause interference.
These CERTIFIED Industrial/Commercial Communications Power Supplies
and are FULLY RF / TVI filtered for Marine HF and VHF communications
and onboard electronics, Commercial Radio systems, CB and Ham radios
HF and VHF, TV's, etc. They are, also, Industrial TOUGH. They can
easily operate 12 vdc appliances like coffee makers, toaster ovens,
refrigerators, 12 vdc motors and pumps, etc.
VERY IMPORTANT to Boaters, RV'ers and Reteater owners: These battery
chargers/power supplies are protected against Line Voltage Spikes to
190+ vac and Brownouts
( ESPECIALLY IF YOU USE A GENERATOR THAT CAN SPIKE TO 180
VOLTS ). The electrical systems at many Marinas and RV parks leave a
lot to desired. Many are in rural areas or are overloaded during peak
seasons making them subject to Brownouts then High Voltage Power
Surges and broken grounds, etc. These supplies are the ONLY FULLY SELF
PROTECTING supplies/chargers available of this type.
TWO, THREE or more Iota supplies can be COMBINED for additional
AMPERAGE demand. Easy to upgrade.
Iota power supplies are 60% more efficient than conventional supplies.
Astron, Tripp-lite, Pyramid COST TWICE as much to operate. Iota power
supplies will pay for themselves within 3 years of ham shack or 1 year
of continuous usage.
Iotas have Constant Voltage / Pure DC Output and are regulated /
filtered.
Iota's thermally controlled fan is smaller and MUCH MORE QUIET.
Iota supplies are Overload, Over-temperature, Over-current and
Brown-out input Protected.
Iota supplies are DUAL VOLTAGE: 14.2 vdc for equipment operation and
full battery charging; 13.4 vdc for maintaining auto, commercial, deep
cycle and gel BACKUP batteries. Iota's are protected against reverse
polarity on the DC output. All supplies have external user replaceable
fuses. They ALSO, have AUTOMATIC resetable internal circuit breakers
for voltage spikes.
Excellent HEAVY DUTY WORKHORSE power supply for CONTINUOUS operation
of Fire, Police, Government, Commercial and Ham REPEATERS. Low Cost,
Reliable and Maintenance Free Operation.
Iota uses ( 3 ) heavy duty Industrial screw clamps accepting UP TO 4
ga cable ( power+, power- and chassis ground ), instead of light duty
banana plugs or fragile ring connectors. The larger cable capacity
allows for heavier current handling ( because of 100% Continuous Duty
Cycle ) and / or remote location of supply without lowering output
line voltage to equipment.
Fully RF and TVI filtered and capable of operating a HF/VHF/UHF Ham,
Commercial or HF/VHF Marine radio station.
Capable of operating entire RV, Boat or Remote Control DC Power System
and Unlimited 12vdc Multi-bank Battery Charging.
Size is: 7" long (x) 6.75" wide (x) 3.75" high.
Input voltage is 108 to 132 vac and 40-70 Hz and consumes ONLY 1100
watts at full demand. Can be operating using a standard 15 amp
household receptacle. Iota's are protected against momentary line
voltage spikes to 190+ vac.
Iota's can be modified for 220 vac input AND 24 output vdc at 25 and
50 amp outputs ( contact us for more info ).
We are the LOWEST PRICE source in the USA for these supplies. Nowhere
in the USA will you be able to purchase any NEW power supply of this
SIZE and QUALITY cheaper.
CHECK OUR FEEDBACK and BID WITH CONFIDENCE.
The power supply retails for $ 450.00. We are not giving them away,
but, since we are Hams, too, our minimum bid is very reasonable for
the SIZE and QUALITY of these supplies. All products carry
manufacturers warranty only.
We are Professional Systems Designers / Installers and Industrial
Distributors. We are available to answer any questions regarding your
specific needs. Feel free to e-mail your needs before bidding if you
have questions pertaining to any special usage or project.
NEEDED FOR FULLTIME BATTERY CHARGING. IQ-4
Microprocessor-controller ( FACTORY OPTIONAL @ $ 35.00 ) turns the
supply into a "Automatic TRUE 3 STAGE Smart Charger" allowing Bulk,
Absorption, Float stage charging AND AUTOMATIC EQUALIZATION. This
option increases the charging capacity of the supply, decreases charge
times and insures proper and safe battery conditioning without
overheating or overcharging and eliminates the need for constant
monitoring over long periods of non-use. Not needed for power supply
use.
See our other Ebay auctions for 15 amp; 30 amp; 45 amp; 75 amp; 90 amp
models.
ALL SALES FINAL - NO REFUNDS. RETURNS OR EXCHANGES ON ELECTRONIC
EQUIPMENT. COVERED BY 2-YEAR FACTORY WARRANTY.
SHIPPING: FED-EX Ground / Insured / To lower 48 states for $ 15.00. We
will ship to Alaska, Hawaii and Internationally, buyer pays all actual
costs and MUST arrange payment by e-mail before bidding. CANADA
FLAT SHIPPING IS $ 30.00 / USD.
PAYMENT BY: PAYPAL, U.S. Postal, American Express, Western Union or
Travelers Money Orders ONLY ( NO BANK checks, Bank drafts or Bank
money orders and NO Personal Checks). Payment MUST be received
within 7 days from end of auction. . International buyers: Payment
MUST be arranged by e-mail before bidding. E-mail
[EMAIL PROTECTED] for additional info.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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