EV Digest 4666
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Shunt motor regen setup
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Solectria E-10 arriving today!
by Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Shunt motor regen setup
by Bruce Bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Shunt motor regen setup
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) OTMAR and Others
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) 48v source?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Can some one HELP Dan, Near Salt Lake
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: Why Iota is working so well.
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) ADC 9inch troubleshooting
by "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nick?=" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: ADC 9inch troubleshooting
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: ADC 9inch troubleshooting
by "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nick?=" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Battery choices Re: Alltrax 7245 controller
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Contactor Controller (was "Re: Shunt motor regen setup")
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: ADC 9inch troubleshooting
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Alternator for psuedo-regen (was "Re: Shunt motor regen setup")
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) White Zombie Fireball Graph available
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Frustr. of AC vs. DC; batt. tech. for newbies; philosophizing
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Frustr. of AC vs. DC; batt. tech. for newbies; philosophizing
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) s-10 U.S electricar
by "Danny Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: OTMAR and Others
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Modern golf carts use shunt motors and have regen. Can anyone on this list
describe how it's done? Maybe a similar but larger sytem could be done for
EVs.
If I wanted to understand shunt motor regen, I'd investigate gold cart
systems.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The excitement and anticipation is now at level 9.9. The driver called today
from Tahoe (4 hours from here). Man, this is great.
Thanks to all you wonderful folks who have supported me with feedback and
answers as I've been preparing for this: Tom Hudson, David Roden. Jeff
Wilson, Major Wilson, Jerry Dycus, Jeff Simpson, Brian Hall, Lee Hart, Ralph
G., Don Cameron, Nick Carter, Chris Zach, and hope I'm not missing anybody.
You've all been a great help!
So now, I've got to keep myself busy as I wait for the final call from
Dependable Shippers to meet them. I'm going to finish the last of the 20A
wiring for the Brusa charger. I also have one question out there not fully
resolved:
I just ran across notes, something from one of you kind folks, that the
Magnacharger wiring may need some sort of shielding. I have not yet been
able to figure out what that means or any details on that. If anyone can
confirm this and include details that would be much appreciated. Thanks
again
Jacob Harris
E-10
Sebastopol, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tom,
I cant' speak to golf carts as I haven't any golf cart experience, but I can
speak to locomotives which use dynamic braking and I'll extrapolate from
there. A locomotive equipped with dc traction motors is a series wound
field during motoring. To connect for braking, the fields of all motors are
connected in series across the main generator (alternator with rectifiers)
to modulate the field current necessary for the motor (now a generator) to
produce braking effort.
One difference between a locomotive in dynamic brake and a vehicle in
regenerative brake that I can see is the need to modulate the regenerative
field current to achieve parity of armature voltage with the battery bank
terminals, then close a contactor for charging. After contactor closure the
field current can be increased to increase charging current. A safety limit
should be imposed, too, such as field and armature current limiting to
prevent boiling of the battery (easily done at higher speeds where the field
current would be low, but the armature speed is high).
A couple of other things to keep in mind are braking effort vs speed and
field current vs armature current - (1)At high speeds power dissipation in
the battery will limit the amount of torque the motor should be allowed to
produce. That means added mechanical braking is needed if a short stop
distance is needed; (2)With respect to field and armature currents,
charging occurs when a motor armature is producing an amount of current that
is equal to or greater than its field is consuming.
Have Fun,
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Shay
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 3:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Shunt motor regen setup
Modern golf carts use shunt motors and have regen. Can anyone on this list
describe how it's done? Maybe a similar but larger sytem could be done for
EVs.
If I wanted to understand shunt motor regen, I'd investigate gold cart
systems.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Shay wrote:
> Modern golf carts use shunt motors and have regen.
Actually, they are separately excited (sepex) motors and controllers.
> Can anyone on this list describe how it's done?
Basically, a series motor has just one big PWM controller. A sepex motor
has two controllers; one big PWM controller (for the armature) and one
small PWM controller (for the field). Because they can independently
control field and armature, you can get a larger range of torques/speeds
out of the motor. Regen is one advantage. Ability to get full HP at high
rpm is another.
> Maybe a similar but larger sytem could be done for EVs.
Certainly; it's been widely done in the past. But as a rule, sepex
controllers cost more than series; in a cost-is-all-that-matters market,
sepex was pushed aside. But now that electronics has dropped in cost,
sepex is making a comeback even is cost-sensitive markets like golf
carts.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey guys,
I got my Zilla 1k today and reading the manual about the cooling aspect
i had a question....
I found this link
http://www.aquastealth.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=35
It appears to have the pump built right into a reservoir, it states in
teh handbook if the reservoir
was big enough one may not have to cool the water any further. What do
you guys think about
this setup ?
Cwarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I need a 48v battery charger (or maybe power supply) small enough to use
on-board a scooter - anyone have one or know of a source for a surplus one?
eBay hasn't been too forthcoming.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can provide a couple of others in the area. DEVC members Brent and Kent
Singleton are in the Salt Lake City area. Brent is somewhat famous for
campaigning one of the few EV based Junior Dragsters as well as some record
setting
EV runs at Bonnieville Salt Flats.
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council (DEVC)
Board Member, Web Administration and Newsletter Editor
Kawasaki Ninja EV - 72 volts of AGMs to an ADC 6.7"
_http://www.devc.org_ (http://www.devc.org/)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4573062189&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
I see a link for one here, and im considering purchasing this one as
well. I was talking to another guy about the wiring of this to my S10.
He mentioned that I may have to wire it so that it turns off while
charging my 144vlt battery pack and if this is the case it will not
charge my accessory battery.
Any thoughts on this product in general and wiring her up
Thanks
Cwarman
Eric Poulsen wrote:
I just bought an Iota 55A from this seller "associated1".
They could certainly do better with their communications. They
require you wait for an email from them with the total, despite the
fact that the shipping is clearly $15 flat-rate in the auction. I got
the email, and it tells you that you have to do paypal manually by
going to the paypal site and choosing "send money," and including all
the auction information. This is in lieu of simply choosing "pay now"
on the auction page and paying via paypal that way. The email I
received was clearly automated, and attempted to sell the (not
necessary for power supply usage) charging controller ("Just add $35
to the amount of your purchase,"), which is why they want you to "send
money" the hard way, not to "properly send you a receipt."
In any case, I paid at 7:30am on Sept. 1, and this seller claims 48
hours to ship items via FedEx. On Friday, 2 Sept, I politely asked
for a tracking number. Even if you don't count Thursday, the item
should ship today at the latest. This seller has a 98.4% feedback
rating, and the negatives and neutrals seem to be over communication,
shipping delays, and tracking numbers. One of the complaints was
"doesn't give full rated power," but there isn't enough information to
figure out what the item was, as it was too old.
Having said that, these items are well spoken of by list members, and
seem to be (by far) the best bang for the buck in terms of watts
delivered vs. price. I ended up paying $125 for the DLS 55 model.
Two year factory warranty. Dunno if it's voided by running on DC.
Chances are, you can get a better deal if you want to bid and wait. I
was recently out-bid (sniped) on a lot of 10 Vicor 200W 150VDC in,
12VDC out DC-DC modules. Ow.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Below is the blurb from a big Iota Ebay seller. They outline that
the 120v version can handle 190v spikes & is brown out protected that
means it runs on lower voltage. I have no relation to these guys but
they seem to know what they are talking about. They also say there
are three different levels of Iota regarding shielding. The best
being the pure power supply. Lawrence Rhodes.
You have seen us for over 10 years at all major hamfests and
communications shows from Maine to Georgia.
We are industrial distributors: See our other Ebay auctions for 15
amp; 30 amp; 45 amp; 75 amp; 90 amp models.
Power Supply is BRAND NEW - Sealed in Factory Box.
WE DO NOT sell USED TAKEOUTS re-boxed to look like new, WE
DO NOT sell STOLEN UNITS ( if the price is too low there is a
good reason ) and WE DO NOT sell REFURBISHED units.
WE ARE FACTORY DIRECT AUTHORIZED IOTA FACTORY DISTRIBUTORS.
ALL OUR PRODUCTS COME DIRECTLY FROM THE IOTA FACTORY. ALL
IOTA PRODUCTS, FROM US, COME WITH A REAL FACTORY WARRANTY,
NOT A FAKE WARRANTY THAT THE FACTORY WILL REFUSE TO HONOR
AFTER YOU HAVE PAID YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY.
WE ARE THE ' ONLY ' AUTHORIZED IOTA FACTORY DISTRIBUTORS
SELLING ON EBAY.
THIS IS THE HEAVY DUTY INDUSTRIAL MODEL WITH FEATURES AND
QUALITY NOT FOUND IN STANDARD MODELS.
WE ARE ENGINEERS AND CAN ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS, EVEN
ON THE PHONE IF REQUESTED and WE WILL CALL YOU - FREE.
NO ONE CAN OFFER BETTER ADVISE OR INSTALLATION HELP !
Made by Iota Engineering, the largest manufacturer of these
INDUSTRIAL QUALITY power supplies. IOTA IS THE MAJOR
MANUFACTURER behind the scenes and they manufacture DOZENS of major
US Brand Names.
WHY invest your hard earned money in CHINESE GARBAGE when you can
have TOP QUALITY USA ENGINEERED PRODUCTS. IOTA TECHNOLOGY is
the STANDARD OF THE INDUSTRY and far superior to the
competition. DON'T BE FOOLED BY CHEAPER PRICES ON " SIMILAR
" PRODUCTS.
These are the BEST POSSIBLE QUALITY power supplies of this type
available on the market today. They are used to supply power to
governmental and commercial communications systems, etc.
Iota has a FACTORY TWO YEAR WARRANTY parts and labor and the
best warranty in the industry. Astron, Tripp-Lite warranties are
Only One Year.
Iota is CERTIFIED 100% Duty Cycle @ 55 CONTINUOUS AMPS - Industrial
Quality. Astron, Tripp-Lite, Pyramid are ONLY 50% duty cycle; ONE
HALF the power.
Battery Charger, Converter and Power Supply are names that describe
virtually the same product. Batter Chargers are usually not filtered
and will cause interference to TVs and Communications Radios;
Converters are usually only slightly better filtered; Quality Power
Supplies are completely filtered and will not cause interference.
These CERTIFIED Industrial/Commercial Communications Power Supplies
and are FULLY RF / TVI filtered for Marine HF and VHF communications
and onboard electronics, Commercial Radio systems, CB and Ham radios
HF and VHF, TV's, etc. They are, also, Industrial TOUGH. They can
easily operate 12 vdc appliances like coffee makers, toaster ovens,
refrigerators, 12 vdc motors and pumps, etc.
VERY IMPORTANT to Boaters, RV'ers and Reteater owners: These battery
chargers/power supplies are protected against Line Voltage Spikes to
190+ vac and Brownouts
( ESPECIALLY IF YOU USE A GENERATOR THAT CAN SPIKE TO 180
VOLTS ). The electrical systems at many Marinas and RV parks leave a
lot to desired. Many are in rural areas or are overloaded during peak
seasons making them subject to Brownouts then High Voltage Power
Surges and broken grounds, etc. These supplies are the ONLY FULLY
SELF PROTECTING supplies/chargers available of this type.
TWO, THREE or more Iota supplies can be COMBINED for additional
AMPERAGE demand. Easy to upgrade.
Iota power supplies are 60% more efficient than conventional
supplies. Astron, Tripp-lite, Pyramid COST TWICE as much to operate.
Iota power supplies will pay for themselves within 3 years of ham
shack or 1 year of continuous usage.
Iotas have Constant Voltage / Pure DC Output and are regulated /
filtered.
Iota's thermally controlled fan is smaller and MUCH MORE QUIET.
Iota supplies are Overload, Over-temperature, Over-current and
Brown-out input Protected.
Iota supplies are DUAL VOLTAGE: 14.2 vdc for equipment operation and
full battery charging; 13.4 vdc for maintaining auto, commercial,
deep cycle and gel BACKUP batteries. Iota's are protected against
reverse polarity on the DC output. All supplies have external user
replaceable fuses. They ALSO, have AUTOMATIC resetable internal
circuit breakers for voltage spikes.
Excellent HEAVY DUTY WORKHORSE power supply for CONTINUOUS operation
of Fire, Police, Government, Commercial and Ham REPEATERS. Low Cost,
Reliable and Maintenance Free Operation.
Iota uses ( 3 ) heavy duty Industrial screw clamps accepting UP TO 4
ga cable ( power+, power- and chassis ground ), instead of light duty
banana plugs or fragile ring connectors. The larger cable capacity
allows for heavier current handling ( because of 100% Continuous Duty
Cycle ) and / or remote location of supply without lowering output
line voltage to equipment.
Fully RF and TVI filtered and capable of operating a HF/VHF/UHF Ham,
Commercial or HF/VHF Marine radio station.
Capable of operating entire RV, Boat or Remote Control DC Power
System and Unlimited 12vdc Multi-bank Battery Charging.
Size is: 7" long (x) 6.75" wide (x) 3.75" high.
Input voltage is 108 to 132 vac and 40-70 Hz and consumes ONLY 1100
watts at full demand. Can be operating using a standard 15 amp
household receptacle. Iota's are protected against momentary line
voltage spikes to 190+ vac.
Iota's can be modified for 220 vac input AND 24 output vdc at 25 and
50 amp outputs ( contact us for more info ).
We are the LOWEST PRICE source in the USA for these supplies. Nowhere
in the USA will you be able to purchase any NEW power supply of this
SIZE and QUALITY cheaper.
CHECK OUR FEEDBACK and BID WITH CONFIDENCE.
The power supply retails for $ 450.00. We are not giving them away,
but, since we are Hams, too, our minimum bid is very reasonable for
the SIZE and QUALITY of these supplies. All products carry
manufacturers warranty only.
We are Professional Systems Designers / Installers and Industrial
Distributors. We are available to answer any questions regarding your
specific needs. Feel free to e-mail your needs before bidding if you
have questions pertaining to any special usage or project.
NEEDED FOR FULLTIME BATTERY CHARGING. IQ-4
Microprocessor-controller ( FACTORY OPTIONAL @ $ 35.00 ) turns the
supply into a "Automatic TRUE 3 STAGE Smart Charger" allowing Bulk,
Absorption, Float stage charging AND AUTOMATIC EQUALIZATION. This
option increases the charging capacity of the supply, decreases
charge times and insures proper and safe battery conditioning without
overheating or overcharging and eliminates the need for constant
monitoring over long periods of non-use. Not needed for power supply
use.
See our other Ebay auctions for 15 amp; 30 amp; 45 amp; 75 amp; 90
amp models.
ALL SALES FINAL - NO REFUNDS. RETURNS OR EXCHANGES ON ELECTRONIC
EQUIPMENT. COVERED BY 2-YEAR FACTORY WARRANTY.
SHIPPING: FED-EX Ground / Insured / To lower 48 states for $ 15.00.
We will ship to Alaska, Hawaii and Internationally, buyer pays all
actual costs and MUST arrange payment by e-mail before bidding.
CANADA FLAT SHIPPING IS $ 30.00 / USD.
PAYMENT BY: PAYPAL, U.S. Postal, American Express, Western Union
or Travelers Money Orders ONLY ( NO BANK checks, Bank drafts or Bank
money orders and NO Personal Checks). Payment MUST be received
within 7 days from end of auction. . International buyers: Payment
MUST be arranged by e-mail before bidding. E-mail
[EMAIL PROTECTED] for additional info.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
I am in need of some troubleshooting assistance. I have a 1992 S-10 conversion
with an ADC 9inch motor and about 16,000 miles on it. When I try to drive it,
the motor will only move in short jerks and the truck does not move. I took it
to a transmission shop, which checked it out; they discovered that the clutch
and pilot bearing were very worn which they replaced. They also checked the
adapter hub on the end of the motor, but it appeared to be fine - it was still
tight, and the key was still in place and did not appear to be sheared. After
reassembling it, the problem is still the same. I have removed and inspected
four of the brushes and visually inspected the other four, and they are still
over an inch long and the spring tension seems to be fine. I also measured the
resistance across the armature while rotating the motor by hand, and I didn't
notice any flutuations. The commutator does not appear to have any unusual wear
on it, but the problem persists. I also operated t!
he motor directly with a single 6-volt battery while watching the commutator
and it moved in the same jerky fashion, just slower. I didn't see any sparks or
any indication of arcing, although I did notice a faint odor like electronics
getting hot.
The transmission mechanic suggested it may be a bad bearing in the motor, but
the motor turns smoothly by hand. Another member of the Humboldt Electric
Vehicle Association suggested that it could be a problem with the field
windings. Does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Nick
www.heva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You have a text book short in your armature. I bet my last dollar that when
you pull the armature it will show that on a growler. I hate to break the news
but you have a hurt armature in need of rewinding. Hopefully you in fact did
need the bearings and at least that is now in good shape. Hope this helps
please keep me posted as I can use this as a tool to help me diagnose online
problems for others.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Nick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello all,
I am in need of some troubleshooting assistance. I have a 1992 S-10 conversion
with an ADC 9inch motor and about 16,000 miles on it. When I try to drive it,
the motor will only move in short jerks and the truck does not move. I took it
to a transmission shop, which checked it out; they discovered that the clutch
and pilot bearing were very worn which they replaced. They also checked the
adapter hub on the end of the motor, but it appeared to be fine - it was still
tight, and the key was still in place and did not appear to be sheared. After
reassembling it, the problem is still the same. I have removed and inspected
four of the brushes and visually inspected the other four, and they are still
over an inch long and the spring tension seems to be fine. I also measured the
resistance across the armature while rotating the motor by hand, and I didn't
notice any flutuations. The commutator does not appear to have any unusual wear
on it, but the problem persists. I also operated t!
he motor directly with a single 6-volt battery while watching the commutator
and it moved in the same jerky fashion, just slower. I didn't see any sparks or
any indication of arcing, although I did notice a faint odor like electronics
getting hot.
The transmission mechanic suggested it may be a bad bearing in the motor, but
the motor turns smoothly by hand. Another member of the Humboldt Electric
Vehicle Association suggested that it could be a problem with the field
windings. Does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Nick
www.heva.org
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How did I get a short in my armature? Could it be caused by corrosion? I don't
have much of that, but all I've got is a Curtis 1221C controller, so I really
don't think I've been over amping this thing....
Nick
-------Original Message-------
> From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: ADC 9inch troubleshooting
> Sent: 06 Sep '05 23:27
>
> You have a text book short in your armature. I bet my last dollar that when
> you pull the armature it will show that on a growler. I hate to break the
> news but you have a hurt armature in need of rewinding. Hopefully you in
> fact did need the bearings and at least that is now in good shape. Hope this
> helps please keep me posted as I can use this as a tool to help me diagnose
> online problems for others.
>
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
> Nick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am in need of some troubleshooting assistance. I have a 1992 S-10
> conversion with an ADC 9inch motor and about 16,000 miles on it. When I try
> to drive it, the motor will only move in short jerks and the truck does not
> move. I took it to a transmission shop, which checked it out; they discovered
> that the clutch and pilot bearing were very worn which they replaced. They
> also checked the adapter hub on the end of the motor, but it appeared to be
> fine - it was still tight, and the key was still in place and did not appear
> to be sheared. After reassembling it, the problem is still the same. I have
> removed and inspected four of the brushes and visually inspected the other
> four, and they are still over an inch long and the spring tension seems to be
> fine. I also measured the resistance across the armature while rotating the
> motor by hand, and I didn't notice any flutuations. The commutator does not
> appear to have any unusual wear on it, but the problem persists. I also
> operate!
d t!
> he motor directly with a single 6-volt battery while watching the commutator
> and it moved in the same jerky fashion, just slower. I didn't see any sparks
> or any indication of arcing, although I did notice a faint odor like
> electronics getting hot.
>
> The transmission mechanic suggested it may be a bad bearing in the motor,
> but the motor turns smoothly by hand. Another member of the Humboldt Electric
> Vehicle Association suggested that it could be a problem with the field
> windings. Does anyone have any ideas?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Nick
> www.heva.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
>
-------Original Message-------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ken and All,
Ken Olum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I went pretty rapidly through two sets of SCS225's in my Rabbit
conversion and then replaced them with EV-145's. These batteries are
completely different. The SCS225 is a Marine/Deep Cycle and the
EV-145 is a 12V Golf Car style. The Trojan equivalent to the EV-145
is the 5SHP.
The SCS225 is cheaper, has better rated energy density and less
internal resistance. It runs out of charge suddenly, potentially
making it hard to get home, whereas the EV-145 gradually loses power.
I think the EV-145 gives up less capacity in cold weather. The SCS225
has a much shorter lifespan in EV use, and in my experience is prone
to sudden failure, whereas the EV-145 loses capacity slowly over a
long period of time.
I would not again use SCS225's in an EV.
Hey guys lets be fair here. A EV145 is much larger thus much lower
discharge % for the same app so of course it will last longer an comparing it
to the SCS225 is just unfair. It's like comparing 8v batts with a much heavier
6v pack of the same voltage. Which one will do better?
Compare it instead to a 5shp Trojan which is it's equivilent.
The SCS225 is a true deep cycle and will compare favorably with any other
130 amphr batt in deep cycle service.
And I would hope you wouldn't use the SCS225 in a Rabbit!! Unless of
course you ran much higher voltage where they would not be used so hard and
had at least the same weight as the EV145 pack..
Of instance in my lightweight 1,000 lb aero, low drag EV, SCS225's would
do well at 120vdc or buddy paired for 72vdc.
Even the 60 lb SCS200(27tmh) buddy paired for the same voltage as the
EV145's at the same pack cost would probably beat the pants off the EV145's in
both range and power at the same voltage if one wanted range value for the
money.
So lets compare like with like in weight and/or cost and use the
appropriate battery, weight of lead, pack size for the job.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Ken Olum
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To smooth the jumps with a contactor controller, what do you all think of
this approach? http://www.geocities.com/thomassonmj/electric_drive.html
Thanks,
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: Shunt motor regen setup
> Mark Thomasson wrote:
> > As another option, an easy way to do regen is with a permanent
> > magnet DC motor and a contactor controller. While cruising at a
> > given voltage and speed, drop down to a lower voltage and the
> > motor regens down to the speed corresponding to that voltage level.
> > The more the voltage is dropped, the stronger the regen. No
> > reversing contactor is needed. Simple and elegant.
>
> Yes, that works. The main drawback is your control of the regen (and
> motoring) current is very abrupt. A good PM motor like the Lynch, Lemco,
> or Etek tries hard to turn at a constant speed (proportional to the
> applied voltage. This means when you change voltage step (say, 24v to
> 48v), there is a drastic increase in motor current and a strong "lurch"
> as it tries to instantly accellerate to its 48v rpm. Likewise, when you
> switch back down from 48v to 24v you get a huge regen current and abrupt
> braking as the motor tries to instantly slow down to its 24v rpm.
>
> Series motors aren't nearly so abrupt; their current (and thus torque)
> changes less than 2:1 for a 2:1 voltage step.
> --
> Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has! -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 9/2/05
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When did the problem occur? If you can't get it wound at a good price local
let me know and I'll look into what I'd need to get for one. First off pull
the motor and then pull the armature and drive plate assy. from the motor.
Don't even bother to try to remove the plate and bring it down to a local shop
and ask them to growl test it. Maybe just maybe you have a short somewhere in
the mica slots or along the riser and it can be undercut and removed. To
answer your question sometimes windings just short out and I have seen many a
new looking armature be shorted. Actually, having just went to your website
you are not that far from me. I used to fish the Trinity river up by Burnt
Ranch / Greys Falls area when I was younger. Be nice to swing by pick it up
and drop a line while I was close, lol. As I am just diagnosing from
description lets get that arm tested before you bumm out to hard and go from
there. If in fact the armature windings are shorted, and a rewind just !
ain't in
the budget (when is it) and you can spare some down time ship it up to me and
I'll try a couple of techniques I've used to successfully remove shorted
windings for others where money was a huge factor. I know it feels like
someone just shot your dog, but keep a stiff upper lip and lets all hope for
the best. Let me know if can help
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Nick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How did I get a short in my armature? Could it be caused by corrosion? I don't
have much of that, but all I've got is a Curtis 1221C controller, so I really
don't think I've been over amping this thing....
Nick
-------Original Message-------
> From: Jim Husted
> Subject: Re: ADC 9inch troubleshooting
> Sent: 06 Sep '05 23:27
>
> You have a text book short in your armature. I bet my last dollar that when
> you pull the armature it will show that on a growler. I hate to break the
> news but you have a hurt armature in need of rewinding. Hopefully you in
> fact did need the bearings and at least that is now in good shape. Hope this
> helps please keep me posted as I can use this as a tool to help me diagnose
> online problems for others.
>
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
> Nick wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I am in need of some troubleshooting assistance. I have a 1992 S-10
> conversion with an ADC 9inch motor and about 16,000 miles on it. When I try
> to drive it, the motor will only move in short jerks and the truck does not
> move. I took it to a transmission shop, which checked it out; they discovered
> that the clutch and pilot bearing were very worn which they replaced. They
> also checked the adapter hub on the end of the motor, but it appeared to be
> fine - it was still tight, and the key was still in place and did not appear
> to be sheared. After reassembling it, the problem is still the same. I have
> removed and inspected four of the brushes and visually inspected the other
> four, and they are still over an inch long and the spring tension seems to be
> fine. I also measured the resistance across the armature while rotating the
> motor by hand, and I didn't notice any flutuations. The commutator does not
> appear to have any unusual wear on it, but the problem persists. I also
> operate!
d t!
> he motor directly with a single 6-volt battery while watching the commutator
> and it moved in the same jerky fashion, just slower. I didn't see any sparks
> or any indication of arcing, although I did notice a faint odor like
> electronics getting hot.
>
> The transmission mechanic suggested it may be a bad bearing in the motor, but
> the motor turns smoothly by hand. Another member of the Humboldt Electric
> Vehicle Association suggested that it could be a problem with the field
> windings. Does anyone have any ideas?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Nick
> www.heva.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
>
-------Original Message-------
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--- Begin Message ---
Good to know - that was going to be a later question. But I'm wondering if
the belt-driven alternator's braking effect *when engaged* would be
significant ("About like a light foot on the brake" or "It'll stop you
dead!" is the sort of guesstimate I'm hoping for).
Thanks!
-Tim
> Lee Hart wrote,
> >> If I were you, I'd look into adding a separate generator or alternator
for regen. This could be as simple as a belt and pulley off the back of the
traction motor to spin an automotive alternator.
>
> > And does anyone have a clue as to how much drag this might add?
>
> Spin an alternator by hand; they take almost nothing to spin with no load.
You don't need a clutch to disconnect them. If you belt drive it, the belt
will produce all your no-load losses. A properly adjusted v-belt isn't bad,
but it is a fraction of a HP loss.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Still working on processing the rest of the data, but I figured I'd post
the most interesting stuff first.
During the Zombie's burnout before its final run of the day at Woodburn
2005 onlookers were treated to bright flashes under the car. Later
examination showed one brush housing had arced over. (The Zombie would
still go on to make a decent run with only 15 or 16 brushes in contact)
Without RPM data I can not make a positive diagnosis.. but here is the
graph and my interpretation. Comments are encouraged.
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/graphics/plots/zombie-woodburn-2005-run6-burnout.png
or http://tinyurl.com/9q6vz
It appears the burnout pit was quite slippery. Without sufficient
traction the Zilla ran PWM up to 100% trying to get the amps up. John
never set a motor voltage limit on the Zilla, so at 100% PWM the motors
saw 287VDC.
Even with the high voltage the motors (and tires) were spinning up
rapidly and amps begin to fall off. John was not using the Zilla's drag
race mode, which allows the driver to override SP shifting during a
burnout and the Zilla commanded a SP shift.
287 in series mode (287/2 = 143.5VDC) is still well within the accepted
voltage limit of John's motors. The Zilla's DAQ mode only records about
10 times per second, so we have no clear indication what happened
between samples. I would guess that as the Zilla went to 0% in
preparation for the SP shift the 500amps circulating in motor loop were
forced thru the flyback diodes, and momentary voltage spiked
considerably higher.
Fortunately the Zilla was still in its blanking period in preparation
for the shift, and the arc was quickly extinguished as current in the
motor loop dropped to zero.
I will post the remaining data as it becomes available.
Have fun...
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Let's see if I've got this straight...
If we want longer range and less space/weight in our
rigs taken up by batteries, the current solution is to
move from flooded lead acid to LiPo.
But LiPos can't have hard current pulls. So we have
to compensate with higher voltages.
But our DC series wound (cheap) motors can't take the
higher voltages, but _are_ made for higher current.
So we upgrade to an AC controller and motor that does
_best_ with higher voltages & lower current.
But the LiPo batteries also need careful thermal
regulation on current both on driving, and on
charging. And the controllers in some cases need
water cooling, adding yet another layer of complexity.
In summary, we either drive a $6-9,000 DC floodie EV
with short range, or we drive a $50,000 AC LiPo EV
using some parts from corporations (Siemens, Metric
Mind), and others that either our fellow hobbyists are
cranking out, or which we cobble together from a
schematic ourselves.
Ummm, door number three, people? (Bide our time for
LiPo regulation to become more ubiquitous? Wait for
the Subaru and Mitsubishi EVs to hit the markets?)
If Toyota is sitting on a pile of cash, _they_ would
seem to be the best candidate to (re)-introduce EVs,
and eat some R&D startup costs, _not_ Mitsubishi heavy
Ind. or Subaru...
And what about the heat pumps that were in the
RAV4_EV? Who made them? Where can we get them?
Is that about where us on-roaders are, or am I missing
something after 6 years on the list?
peace,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- Begin Message ---
Bob,
I think your lumping AC/DC along with battery technology together is
incorrect.
* People are using Lithium batteries with lower voltage DC systems.
* People are using Lead Acid with high voltage AC systems.
I think your complaint is simple. It has little to do with AC or DC, high
or low voltage. Your complaint is the standard: current battery technology
sucks and does not allow us the range we get with our ICE vehicles. Either
that, or better range is just too darn expensive.
What can we do about it? Fork out the cash, or drive less. Invent a new
battery? Maybe ride the bike more? I am not sure.
Best I will do is change what I can and work with what I can't.
Don
P.S. I may be a bit odd here, but I **like** liquid cooling. I love it in my
siemens controller and motor, and I am one of the people who asked Rich for
a liquid cooled charger. It allows closer placement in closed areas, as
well as more compact design (e.g. Rich's liquid cooled charger puts out 25%
more power). Much more flexibility. Yes it requires plumbing, radiator and a
pump, but this is the compromise I chose for this flexibility.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Bath
Sent: September 6, 2005 6:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Frustr. of AC vs. DC; batt. tech. for newbies; philosophizing
Let's see if I've got this straight...
If we want longer range and less space/weight in our rigs taken up by
batteries, the current solution is to move from flooded lead acid to LiPo.
But LiPos can't have hard current pulls. So we have to compensate with
higher voltages.
But our DC series wound (cheap) motors can't take the higher voltages, but
_are_ made for higher current.
So we upgrade to an AC controller and motor that does _best_ with higher
voltages & lower current.
But the LiPo batteries also need careful thermal regulation on current both
on driving, and on charging. And the controllers in some cases need water
cooling, adding yet another layer of complexity.
In summary, we either drive a $6-9,000 DC floodie EV with short range, or we
drive a $50,000 AC LiPo EV using some parts from corporations (Siemens,
Metric Mind), and others that either our fellow hobbyists are cranking out,
or which we cobble together from a schematic ourselves.
Ummm, door number three, people? (Bide our time for LiPo regulation to
become more ubiquitous? Wait for the Subaru and Mitsubishi EVs to hit the
markets?)
If Toyota is sitting on a pile of cash, _they_ would seem to be the best
candidate to (re)-introduce EVs, and eat some R&D startup costs, _not_
Mitsubishi heavy Ind. or Subaru...
And what about the heat pumps that were in the RAV4_EV? Who made them?
Where can we get them?
Is that about where us on-roaders are, or am I missing something after 6
years on the list?
peace,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi im new to the service and to ev ownership. I recently burchased a s-10
U.S electricar I drove it home It ran great . I plugged it into the magne
charger the charger said check vehicle i unplugged the charger checked every
fuse i could see, even under the bed of the truck. all were good and the
truck will not turn on. all dash lights seem to work except for the fault
light . If any one has any ideas please contact me Dan Lee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like a good unit. Further cooling may be needed depending what ambient
temperature in your area gets.
I am using a Zilla 1000 with a Maxi-Jet 1200 Multi-Use Submersible Pump and
Power Head. I using it as a standard pump which is not submerse in the water.
It has a 3/4 inch water inlet and a 3/8 inch outlet. I connected my right to a
3/4 outlet of a GM plastic remote fill tank with a 12 lb pressure cap. It
holds about a gallon of coolent.
I run a 3/8 hose off this pump down to a oil cooler radiator which is mounted
on the front of my A/C radiator which also has a electric fan on it.
A 3/8 hose goes to a drain value and up to the Zilla. Coming out the Zilla is a
3/8 hose to a 3/8 hose stud in this GM tank.
The Zilla controller is mounted on rubber shock mounts that keeps the back of
the Zilla away from the chassis base which allows air to circulated around it.
There is a Form Plastic cover that encloses the Zilla.
One end of this Cover has a Dayton Filter 6-inch Blower that blows in air at
150 CFM. The other end of this cover is a outlet grill.
Between the two coolant stubs on the Zilla, there is a aluminum base plate of
which I connected a Stewart Warner Sensor which is normally for detecting the
surface heat of a engine. This goes to a Stewart Warner engine temperature
meter that reads from 0 to 600 degrees.
Also I have a standard engine coolent sender in a brass fitting coming out of
the drain fitting.
There is also a industrial Honeywell ambient air temperature senser that
measures the air temperature under the hood of the EV.
Motor also has a temperature sensor system:
Testing of Coolent system leaving the Maxi-Jet Pumps off and Fan Blower off
with a ambiant temperature of 80 degrees.
The ambiant air at 80 degrees
The coolent temperature is also at about 80 degrees
The underhood temperature is at 99-100 degrees
The Zilla heat sink temperature is at 80 degrees.
Running the EV at 30 mph drawing 100 amperes for 10 miles result in:
Underhood temperature is at 110 degrees
The Zilla heat sink temperature is at 115 degrees
The coolent temperature is also at 115 degrees coming out the outlet.
Turning on the pumps result in the following:
The Zilla heat sink temperature is at 105 degrees
The coolent temperature at the outlet of the Zilla is 105 degrees
The coolent temperature at the outlet of the oil radiator with radiator fan on
high is at 85 degrees.
Turning on the Blower fan and coolent pumps.
The Zilla heat temperature never went above 99 degrees with under hood ambient
temperature of 110 degrees with a outside air ambient temperature of 80
degrees.
Therefore at 80 degrees you will have a rise of Zilla temperature to 110
degrees with no additional cooling at 100 amperes at 10 miles.
If you are in a area that gets 110 degrees, you could get at under hood
temperature of 140 degrees, which I read at one time. The Zilla of which I did
not have at that time, could be in the 160 degrees range.
With additional cooling this should come down to 115 to 120 degrees.
You will never get the coolent temperature come down below the outside ambient
air temperature, except if you have a A/C system, you can wrap the 3/8 hose
coming from the cooling radiator or pump around the output hose on the A/C
condenser going to the A/C pump and cover it with a double layer of pipe foam
insulation.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Cwarman<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 4:46 PM
Subject: OTMAR and Others
Hey guys,
I got my Zilla 1k today and reading the manual about the cooling aspect
i had a question....
I found this link
http://www.aquastealth.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=35<http://www.aquastealth.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=35>
It appears to have the pump built right into a reservoir, it states in
teh handbook if the reservoir
was big enough one may not have to cool the water any further. What do
you guys think about
this setup ?
Cwarman
--- End Message ---
