EV Digest 4669
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: alternator regen -- Re: Shunt motor regen setup
by Brian Staffanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Siamese 8 Motor Post-racing Update
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: "THATS NOT GOOD"
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: "THATS NOT GOOD"
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: White Zombie video, Re: Woodburn NEDRA Nationals
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 'THATS NOT GOOD'
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: "THATS NOT GOOD"
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Another Newbie - delurking - beam me up scottie
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV Feeding Frenzy
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV Feeding Frenzy
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Using small controller for testing
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Siemens EV Motors
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV Feeding Frenzy
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Iota DC/DC Decision
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Siamese 8 Motor Post-racing Update
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Using small controller for testing
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Another Newbie - delurking - beam me up scottie
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Siemens EV Motors
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EV Feeding Frenzy
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Lexus commercial
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EV Feeding Frenzy
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: "Low Speed Vehicle"
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV Feeding Frenzy
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Siamese 8 Motor Post-racing Update
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: White Zombie video, Re: Woodburn NEDRA Nationals
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Iota DC/DC. What to use.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
So any alternator will deliver the rated current at other voltages? What is
the maximum voltage you can get from an alternator, and still have the rated
current? Does it depend only on how fast it is spinning? Would it be better
to get a zener diode to regulate the voltage? Doesnt the alternator just
produce AC, and there is a regulator that changes it to DC? If this is
correct, does the speed affect frequency? Or amplitude? Oh so many questions
and so little time.
Brian
----------------------------------
An alternator is around 60-70% efficient. You can estimate the braking
force from the output power it is delivering. For instance, a 12v 60amp
alternator can also deliver 60amps at 120v. 60a x 120v = 7200 watts.
7200w / (746hp/w) = 9.65 horsepower. At 70% efficiency that will take
9.65hp / 0.7 = 13.78 mechanical horsepower.
--------------------------
If you remove or disconnect this regulator, and control the field
directly (for example, with a rheostat to +12v), you can get any voltage
up to 120vdc or more. The maximum voltage is limited by the breakdown
voltage of the diodes inside the alternator. They are nominally 50-100v,
but often have enough safety margin to work well past this. This is how
those cheap little "get 120 volts from your alternator" boxes that are
advertised in the back of Popular Science do it.
The voltage from the alternator is also proportional to rpm. At full
field (12v on the field) you just barely get 14vdc at idle (600 rpm).
Keep the field at 12v and run your engine up to 10x the speed (6000
rpm), and you get 10x the voltage (140vdc).
Note that the belt drive pulleys typically spin the alternator about
twice as fast as the engine. Alternators routinely operate well past
12,000 rpm.
Obviously, alternators aren't built for these voltages. If the diodes
fail (or you just want to be sure they don't) replace with
higher-voltage diodes. Likewise, they don't bother to insulate them very
well; the insulation may break down somewhere unless you epoxy or
otherwise add insulation.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Just a short note to let everyone know that Tim and I pulled the
Zombie's wounded motor last night. The new design of the under-hood
layout I chose that jettisoned the old strut tower - strut tower bracket
(that used to hold the controller an other parts) in favor of the much
more open motor bay arrangement with the two mirror image mount
platforms on each side of the motor, proved to be a good one. It took
just 30 minutes from the beginning of shuffling cars, a Taylor Dunn
electric cart, and an electric garden tractor out of the way and getting
a forklift into position, to having the motor outside the car and on a
pallet!
It's this simple....tilt the hood way back and secure with a bungee
cord...position the forklift with its forks under the crossmember and
lift the car's nose with the flick of the 'lift' lever and insert safety
jack stands and block the rear tires....Tim is in back near the rear end
and takes out four universal nuts, drops the rear of the driveline down,
then slides off the aluminum beauty from the motor's splined shaft....I
am at the same time, under the hood and disconnecting the six beefy 4/0
cables from the motor....we then remove the four main motor mount bolts,
plus the two front mount bolts....next, we lift the car again with the
flick of a lever, remove the jack stands, lower the car back down, and
reposition the forklift with the forks over the motor bay....then we
affix a flat nylon strap around the motor, then securely clamp the strap
to the forks, then hit the 'lift' lever, and presto...the motor is out
of the car!
The motor is now loaded in the service truck and will be in Redmond at
Hi Torque Electric Thursday morning. Jim says he can get it fixed up in
a day or so. That means Tim and I will be at the track next week to see
if we can pull off a 12.4 @ 105 mph - 12.3 @ 106 mph or something like
that. We'll also be able to finally weight the car, and, take it to
Torque Freaks for a trip to the dyno.
Having too much fun with all this racing stuff......
See Ya....John 'Plasma boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Husted wrote:
First off John I'd like to correct you in that it was Matt husted of Hi_Torque
Electric (you know your motor guys) saying THATS NOT GOOD in the video, funny
you still seem to be blowing him off, LMAO.
OK, I stand corrected!
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
Are you sure?
In John's defense, (not that he need's it) let me say that that sure sounded
like Bob Rice's voice to me, and Bob was standing in front of and to the right
of the camera. Granted I've never heard Matt's voice, and you were there and I
wasn't. So I'll have to take your word for it.
Stay Charged!
Hump
Original Message -----------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jim Husted
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: "THATS NOT GOOD"
First off John I'd like to correct you in that it was Matt husted of
Hi_Torque Electric (you know your motor guys) saying THATS NOT GOOD in the
video, funny you still seem to be blowing him off, LMAO. Ive also seen
several pic's of the Zorched motor from several sources with statements like
the motor melted the brushes. The only damage I saw was a zapped brush
holder and a melted brush spring. We'll know more soon. Anyways I just
wanted to set the records straight as to who was trying to get your
attention.
PS: you got that motor puller yet??
PSS: We both had the time of our lives, and can't wait to attend the next
event.
Cya soon
Jim Husted
Hi_Torque Electric
John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello to All
Christopher Robison wrote:
>So officially, the video is here, and everyone should be able to play it:
>
>http://ohmbre.org/video/woodburn_2005/waylandslastrun.mpeg
>
>
Chris, it played perfectly on my Mac with Quick Time Player, thanks for the
video.
>After all that work though, I'll warn everyone that it's basically the
>same shot as the one on PlasmaBoy Racing, but with the main part of the
>run taken from the other side of the track. In some ways Ross Olson's
>shot is better, since it seems like he's closer.
>
I don't agree about Ross Olson's shot being better...it's just different. On
yours, you can hear the same, now famous Bob Rice comment about the motor
arcing bit, 'That's not good', but in addition and absent from our video,
you can hear me give the go-ahead to keep running. You can also see Bob with
his video cam. Yes, I love Ross'
vantage point because it's the first time I've ever got to see and 'hear' an
EV at 100+ mph speeds...very cool! However, your footage clearly captures
the shift from series to parallel where ours does not.
You can see the car's nose drop a bit, then lift as you hear a definite
change in motor sound and watch the car start to really fly...perfect!
Your video also has clear audio of Roy LeMeur who was doing the announcing
for NEDRA on Sunday...thanks, Roy.
It would be great is someone could blend what appears to be four camera
views into one video...the two we used, and the two you used. I'd start with
your video that has someone saying 'Light em up', then quickly switch to
our's from there...then after our better view and sound of the
tire-squealing launch, switch back to yours with the series-parallel shift
view...then back to Ross' long range view of my small car getting larger and
larger as it rushes towards the camera at the finish line and flashes by
with the sound of 104 mph...then back to your view again with an even
clearer shot of the digital reader board and Roy's announcing.
Man, this post racing video stuff is great!
See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
http://plasmaboyracing.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You bit boys need to keep it simple.
I can't view ANY of the Videos, and frankly 17 Megs even on a DSL is 15
minutes of down load time.
So... John, when do I get a CD rom????
I am running XP with the Windows media player.
Yes John I did get to see and review the data files.
You clearly have a LOT more battery power on tap by late Sunday. But... I
really would like to see the motor amps plots. Just the battery gives me a
idea of what is happening, But the big question is the controller in
control, or is it out of the loop in a full on position. The real PWM tells
be if it's not at 157 then... the controller is still in the way. Like wise
if the PWM is at 157 you are on your battery limits.
And...Mark Farver... just because your motor volts and battery volts are the
same DOES NOT mean you are NOT accelerating it means your are accelerating
at the limit of what your battery pack can supply at that voltage. This
still could be 100s of Kw with a Z2K involved. In a perfect full power run
you would want to reach this point about 1200 ft down the track.
More later.. I am really busy this morning.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Credit where credit is due, Matt's voice is clear in that shot because he
was the one holding the camera. I got that footage from him (after WAY
too much time wasted fiddling with my laptop) and used it because my
camera was pointed at the other end of the track at the time waiting for
FT's ET to hit the board (it never did). Even if I had been able to get
the burnout on my camera, I would never have had the awesome close-up
shots Matt and Bob were in position to get. I was hoping to get more of
his footage, but I ran out of time and disk space.
What's really interesting is what happened in his original footage that I
replaced with the shot from my camera. White Zombie takes off so fast,
his camera's autofocus can't keep up. Tim Brehm vs. Canon, Tim wins --
the car just becomes a blur.
--chris
Jim Husted said:
> First off John I'd like to correct you in that it was Matt husted of
> Hi_Torque Electric (you know your motor guys) saying THATS NOT GOOD in the
> video, funny you still seem to be blowing him off, LMAO. Ive also seen
> several pic's of the Zorched motor from several sources with statements
> like the motor melted the brushes. The only damage I saw was a zapped
> brush holder and a melted brush spring. We'll know more soon. Anyways I
> just wanted to set the records straight as to who was trying to get your
> attention.
> PS: you got that motor puller yet??
> PSS: We both had the time of our lives, and can't wait to attend the next
> event.
> Cya soon
> Jim Husted
> Hi_Torque Electric
>
> John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello to All
>
> Christopher Robison wrote:
>
>>So officially, the video is here, and everyone should be able to play it:
>>
>>http://ohmbre.org/video/woodburn_2005/waylandslastrun.mpeg
>>
>>
> Chris, it played perfectly on my Mac with Quick Time Player, thanks for
> the video.
>
>>After all that work though, I'll warn everyone that it's basically the
>>same shot as the one on PlasmaBoy Racing, but with the main part of the
>>run taken from the other side of the track. In some ways Ross Olson's
>> shot
>>is better, since it seems like he's closer.
>>
> I don't agree about Ross Olson's shot being better...it's just
> different. On yours, you can hear the same, now famous Bob Rice comment
> about the motor arcing bit, 'That's not good', but in addition and
> absent from our video, you can hear me give the go-ahead to keep
> running. You can also see Bob with his video cam. Yes, I love Ross'
> vantage point because it's the first time I've ever got to see and
> 'hear' an EV at 100+ mph speeds...very cool! However, your footage
> clearly captures the shift from series to parallel where ours does not.
> You can see the car's nose drop a bit, then lift as you hear a definite
> change in motor sound and watch the car start to really fly...perfect!
> Your video also has clear audio of Roy LeMeur who was doing the
> announcing for NEDRA on Sunday...thanks, Roy.
>
> It would be great is someone could blend what appears to be four camera
> views into one video...the two we used, and the two you used. I'd start
> with your video that has someone saying 'Light em up', then quickly
> switch to our's from there...then after our better view and sound of the
> tire-squealing launch, switch back to yours with the series-parallel
> shift view...then back to Ross' long range view of my small car getting
> larger and larger as it rushes towards the camera at the finish line and
> flashes by with the sound of 104 mph...then back to your view again with
> an even clearer shot of the digital reader board and Roy's announcing.
>
> Man, this post racing video stuff is great!
>
> See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
>
> http://plasmaboyracing.com
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7 Sep 2005 at 7:37, Jim Husted wrote:
> First off John I'd like to correct you in that it was Matt husted of Hi_Torque
> Electric (you know your motor guys) saying THATS NOT GOOD in the video
I wasn't there, but I know Bob Rice pretty well, and the voice saying "That
wasn't good" in the video soundtrack sure ^sounds^ like Bob's. It makes
sense, since Bob was the one holding the camcorder.
Probably ^both^ of them said that. In fact I'll bet quite a few people said
something to that effect. No doubt I would have too, if I'd been there.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
hi John This is the place for your ev questions , you ask some answerer and
many read and learn ( I hope ) . So it sounds like gas at $10 is enough to
get people moving to EV's , I am hoping $5 will do it here . The Adaptor
plate is probable the hardest part for most , unless your going to try to
make your own controller ( not advised) . I started making my own adaptor
plates after my 2nd ev, I got this idea on how to line the motor to the
tranny without doing ANY measuring but its still lots of work , The adaptor
plate will cost about %10 of the total parts , if you buy it form some of
the people that make them professionally . You will just bolt it in and be
done . I have made about 12 of them and am getting better at it but I'm not
sure its a good idea for everybody, it could keep your ev for every
happening , or slow up getting it done. anyway theirs info on doing it on
the www.grassrootsev.com web site .
Speaking of Porsche 924's what happened to the one that was being done
awhile back by somebody on the list who was coming up with "new " ideas for
hooking motor up , last I heard after not using the bell housing it was sold
unfinished , .. ( collage student , ) .
Steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Even if you have not done the 924/944 other tips and tricks for initial
sizing of motor and cells and complexities of producing an adaptor plate
would be very welcome. I plan to do most of the mechanicals including the
milling of an adaptor plate (with help) and building monitoring
electronics
for looking after the bat pack.
All advice very welcome
TIA
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <
No feeding frenzy here in Port Townsend, Washington. I am selling a 1980
Jet Electrica for a lady who bought a Prius.
Same here , lots of talk , but you still can't build one and sell it and
make your parts money and labor . I have my fleet of EV's ready to go
www.grassrootsev.com .. I just got two out of my yard by letting them go for
$100 per month and keeping them up for sale at the price watch reflects
parts and labor .
It is upgraded to 108 volts, has
fairly new batteries, a Curtis controller upgrade and DC to DC converter
at $5,500.00 and it has been in the paper for six weeks and no inquires at
all until recently from just one person from Eastern Washington.
sounds like good deal ,
steve clunn
reasons
we moved our business to the next county.
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 5:19 AM
Subject: EV Feeding Frenzy
Howdy Folk's,
I had my E-jeep (Geo Tracker) in Roanoke, VA on Ebay this week-end and
people from as far away as Co Spgs flew in to see it and take a ride. A
couple guys rode their motorcycles from Tennessee. A couple from PA
wanted to strap a windmill on the roof and drive forever, offered $9k but
I ended up selling to a guy in NY at $9.1k who got the final bid in the
last 10 seconds of the auction at 1:40am Monday morning.
I directed all the EV wannabees to www.evalbum.com to buy there. A lot
were "fair weather" EV'ers, clueless people who just want one cause the
gas is high and will probably comit "battricide" as Lee says. ( I've
driven EV's for 30 years before EV's were cool). I felt like a carnival
ride guy.
Now to work on the Bombardier I bought off Ebay last week for $4.2k from
Atlanta, drove a dump truck down to pick up. Say does anyone know where
to get or make hard doors for a Bombardier? If I can't find something, I
was thinking of using Lexan or aluminum plate.
Have a Renewable Energy Day, Mark
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--- Begin Message ---
Meanwhile the scarce RAV4-EVs and GM factory E10s go for premium prices.
But just wait until their NiMH packs die or their chargers get flaky. Then
what?
The sad thing is that it's just another similar chapter in the tale. Gas
prices go up and there's sudden interest in EVs. A lot of people buy them
(in this case used ones), but they don't know anything about how to repair
them and many don't have the time, background, or inclination to learn.
This situation is made much worse by the proprietary nature of the
automakers' factory EVs. When they break, the owners can't fix them nor can
they find anyone qualified to carry out repairs for them. They end up with
a $10,000 shelf in the garage and a bitter taste for the whole EV
experience.
If they'd just bought an ordinary conversion, they might have had a better
shot at maintaining it themselves. But homebrew conversions aren't as sexy
as the automakers' factory jobs, and ... well, we all know what sells.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
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--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know why I can't use a small Curtis controller at 36 volts for
testing my 9" motor when it is connected?
I realize it isn't going to do much since it is for a golf cart, but it would
allow me to make some progress.
I don't have the funding for the $2000 controller right now.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FWIW I spoke with Electo Mavin http://www.mavin.com who is selling the 140
Siemens motors. The output shafts on the motors are splines which are
twisted. Odd that the photograph on the album shows the output shaft being
blurred. The gentlemen at Electro Mavin said Metric Mind has a shaft
converter for these motors (news to me, but I am not sure what Victor is up
to). He does not have controllers, nor know what controllers will work with
the motors.
He also said the whole lot is going to be sold today or tomorrow so I
"better act soon".
...Not interested.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: September 5, 2005 6:14 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Siemens EV Motors
Osmo, no answers yet. As I posted, I am concerned if they will work with
the "standard" Siemens controllers and if their input spline can easily be
adapted.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: Osmo Sarin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: September 5, 2005 2:54 AM
To: Don Cameron
Subject: Siemens EV Motors
Hi Don,
you asked about these motors
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/index.php?
method=showdetails&list=advertisement&rollid=359&fromfromlist=classified
scategory&fromfrommethod=showhtmllist&fromfromid=12
some time ago. Has anyone answered to you (haven´t seen on the list), is
there any potential problems or would they be ok for conversion?
Thanks, Osmo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, Sep 07, 2005 at 11:50:38AM -0400, David Roden wrote:
> Meanwhile the scarce RAV4-EVs and GM factory E10s go for premium prices.
>
> But just wait until their NiMH packs die or their chargers get flaky. Then
> what?
>
<..snip..>
>
> If they'd just bought an ordinary conversion, they might have had a better
> shot at maintaining it themselves. But homebrew conversions aren't as sexy
> as the automakers' factory jobs, and ... well, we all know what sells.
I agree with your premise, but I would say that a factory EV with a NiMH
pack is really the only way to buy an EV that will go 100+ miles.
I'm not sure if I've ever seen a conversion that will get even close to this
kind of range for sale.
Plus homebuilt conversions really have a tendency to very in quality, whereas
people think they know what they are getting by going with a car made by
Toyota or GM.
Just a though.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So if i was to use this IOTA DC DC converter, woudl i have to do
anything different while charging my batterys with a Zivan NG3.
Anything different than i would with another or different type of DC DC
converter ?
Cwarman
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Found out that the 120v version can take 190v spike. All versions
have brown out protection. That's why your's works at lower
voltages. LR.....
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ricky Suiter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: Iota DC/DC Decision
Forwarded Message
From:"Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To:"Electric
Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>Subject:Iota DC/DC
DecisionDate:Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:35:56 -0700
Plain Text Attachment [ Download File | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ]
I've heard that the Iota 120 version works at a very high voltage.
The 220version works at 144 I've heard. What is the consensis?
Should a 144v vehicle get the 220 or 120 version? My Controller came
and it is rated by the rebuilder at 700amps.120 to 144vdc.Lawrence
RhodesBassoon/ContrabassoonReedmakerBook 4/5 doublerElectric Vehicle
& Solar Power [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Lawrence,
First off if I murder this this format here it's my first attempt at
digest mode.
I am currently on vacation until next monday. I'm hoping I will have my
hairball back when I return and I can put everything back together
and get the car
going as it should finally. I will then be able to let you know how
the IOTA fairs
at 144 volts under load and such. So if you can hold out for another
week or s
I can tell you for sure how it's going to work.
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 7:47 AM
Subject: Siamese 8 Motor Post-racing Update
> The motor is now loaded in the service truck and will be in Redmond at
> Hi Torque Electric Thursday morning. Jim says he can get it fixed up in
> a day or so. That means Tim and I will be at the track next week to see
> if we can pull off a 12.4 @ 105 mph - 12.3 @ 106 mph or something like
> that. We'll also be able to finally weight the car, and, take it to
> Torque Freaks for a trip to the dyno.
>
> Having too much fun with all this racing stuff......
>
> See Ya....John 'Plasma boy' Wayland
>
> >
> >
>
dddddDDDDYNO???? Where and when, give me some lead time.
Drooooollll!
Madman
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does anyone know why I can't use a small Curtis controller at 36 volts for testing my 9" motor when it is connected?
I realize it isn't going to do much since it is for a golf cart, but it would allow me to make some progress.
I don't have the funding for the $2000 controller right now.
You can.. speed and torque will be limited but it should work. Don't
expect much more than being able to crawl around on flat ground. EVers
commonly use 12v batteries and contactors for moving half built EVs
around...
Mark
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Thanks Steve - just going out to look at the 924 to make sure its "as
described" !!
Can't find the piece on Grassroots' about making your own adaptor plate and
coupling tho. I was going to turn a tapered split coupler that tightens as
it is compressed by bolts through the flywheel mounting - to hold the motor
shaft real tight. I wonder if the transmission in the 924 is the same as
any others in the Porsche range of vehicles.
Then starting from some 7/8 stock ally plate mill it to the measurements of
the transmission. I wonder if I can get dimensions for the electric motor
size from the motor maker to save a little measuring !
If there is a nother 924 EV lister doing the same conversion then I would be
pleased to hear from him.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: Another Newbie - delurking - beam me up scottie
> hi John This is the place for your ev questions , you ask some answerer
and
> many read and learn ( I hope ) . So it sounds like gas at $10 is enough
to
> get people moving to EV's , I am hoping $5 will do it here . The Adaptor
> plate is probable the hardest part for most , unless your going to try to
> make your own controller ( not advised) . I started making my own adaptor
> plates after my 2nd ev, I got this idea on how to line the motor to the
> tranny without doing ANY measuring but its still lots of work , The
adaptor
> plate will cost about %10 of the total parts , if you buy it form some of
> the people that make them professionally . You will just bolt it in and be
> done . I have made about 12 of them and am getting better at it but I'm
not
> sure its a good idea for everybody, it could keep your ev for every
> happening , or slow up getting it done. anyway theirs info on doing it on
> the www.grassrootsev.com web site .
>
> Speaking of Porsche 924's what happened to the one that was being done
> awhile back by somebody on the list who was coming up with "new " ideas
for
> hooking motor up , last I heard after not using the bell housing it was
sold
> unfinished , .. ( collage student , ) .
> Steve clunn
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > Even if you have not done the 924/944 other tips and tricks for initial
> > sizing of motor and cells and complexities of producing an adaptor plate
> > would be very welcome. I plan to do most of the mechanicals including
the
> > milling of an adaptor plate (with help) and building monitoring
> > electronics
> > for looking after the bat pack.
> >
> > All advice very welcome
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/91 - Release Date: 06/09/2005
>
>
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On 7 Sep 2005 at 6:47, Don Cameron wrote:
> He also said the whole lot is going to be sold today or tomorrow ...
To a metal recycler?
Actually, these motors will probably go to waste, which is a real shame. If
there were a proven market for these motors, and if there were enough of
them, it might be possible to design or adapt an inverter for them. But I
suspect the quantity is too small and the market too specialized to make
that worthwhile.
The only real market I can think of for them is advanced hobbyists who can
design and build their own inverters. That can't be a very big market, nor
is any such person likely to spend very much on an orphan motor like this
one.
Sounds like somebody paid too much for a lot of motors, not realizing how
difficult it would be to match them up with inverters. So it goes.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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On 7 Sep 2005 at 8:56, Nick Austin wrote:
> I agree with your premise, but I would say that a factory EV with a NiMH
> pack is really the only way to buy an EV that will go 100+ miles.
Only until the battery depreciates or the inverter fails. Then its range is
anywhere from 50 miles to zero.
>
> I'm not sure if I've ever seen a conversion that will get even close to this
> kind of range for sale.
Red Beastie can do it, though it's a real lead sled. The Solectria Forces
with NiMH batteries came close - I think they could do 85 miles. Those at
least you can work on, although most mere mortals can't afford to replace
the battery when it fails.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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David Roden wrote:
> I don't think this is all bad by any means. Unlike some others, at
> least they're not dismissing EVs or pretending they don't exist.
> The very fact that they included them in the spot indicates they
> acknowledge them as competitors.
>
> Some of the viewers who see this ad just might think, "Hmm, I wonder
> where I could get one of these EVs."
Gandhi said, "First they ignore you, then they mock you, then they fight
you -- then you win!"
Maybe this means we're past the ignore stage, and well into the mocking
stage (plus a little fighting in the case of the crushing of the CA ZEV
mandate EVs). So we're getting closer to winning!
Of course, he missed the next step. It's ... then we steal your idea and
claim we thought of it.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Andrea Bachus Kohler wrote:
> Great idea, Lee. What would your target selling price be?
I'm just an engineer. I can design it; but have no idea how it would be
sold or for how much. But materials-wise, it's going to be *lot* less
than any normal car; more like the cost of a golfcar / NEV.
What I'm thinking of is a wood/composite body and frame, very much like
Jerry Dycus is doing with his Freedom EV, but in a 4-wheel version. The
trick to get around the regulatory hassles for a new automobile is to
buy a Citicar to get your title, and "restore" it so essentially nothing
is left but the title :-)
> Would you use flooded golf cart batteries?
Yes, for economy. This won't be a high-speed, high-current vehicle, so
they are fine.
> Would you use a boat anchor Lester charger or a new high frequency one?
If it's a 36v or 48v system, there are lots of options. It opens the
door to a wide range of golf cart and telecom chargers and products.
They are mass produced, widely available, and cheap.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Mark Hanson wrote:
> my Bombardier... had a "Low Speed Vehicle" restriction on the type
> of vehicle on the Title... 25mph restricted tag, which means I can't
> drive it on the roads since most of the country roads around and in
> Roanoke are 45mph.
Check the actual wording of the law in your state. Sometimes they say
"POSTED speed limit..." and most residential and rural roads are not
posted. Or, the law says you can't use a 25 mph vehicle on roads where
the speed limit is over 45 mph. Details make all the difference.
> Anyway is there a title service someone knows of that can change
> the restriction?
Yes, by stealth. You can retitle it as anything you like, but it will
have to pass your state's inspection laws. The challenge is getting a
sympathetic inspector who will overlook the low speed vehicle
restriction.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Lee Hart wrote:
>> "best buy" EV... a 1916 Detroit Electric.
David Roden wrote:
> a good buy for its time, when automobiles were mostly hand-built.
> Adjusted for inflation, that $2,700 would be $46,550 today. If a
> high-end converter were to build a limited-production luxury EV
> based on a good quality midsize car such as a Toyota Camry, that's
> pretty close to what I'd expect it to cost.
Yes, exactly. Today we have the advantage of not having to hand-make all
the parts; we can "borrow" them from other existing cars.
We could convert a Camry, but oddly enough, I can't recall anyone doing
one. I guess it's because most conversions start with an ICE that's
broken, and Camrys don't break. :-)
But I was thinking of something much smaller. A CitiCar done right. Not
"luxurious", but good by today's standards. Try to avoid high-priced
automotive parts, and look at trailers, golf carts, and other more
economical vehicles for parts sources.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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I printed off John's POST, and some of the pictures off his
EV Album listing http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/035.html
Today I will show off John's White Zombie at work, and
at the EAA Rally Sat 9/24 http://eaasv.org
Thanks John for giving me the tools I use to get some heads
turned towards Electrics.
ta
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Rich Rudman wrote:
Yes John I did get to see and review the data files.
You clearly have a LOT more battery power on tap by late Sunday. But... I
really would like to see the motor amps plots. Just the battery gives me a
The plots posted are listing motor amps (divided by 10). The Zilla's
DAQ4 mode does not publish battery amps (I don't think.. the manual
lists 8 values, but I am getting 9 from the hairball, any one hazard a
guess on what the extra value is?).
At the end of Run 6 I am not sure what is happening. The Zilla is not
at 100%, but motor amps is falling way off. Maybe battery current limit?
Is it worth adding a calculated value for battery amps to the graphs?
(Motor Volts * Motor Amps / Battery Volts =) It will be a little
inaccurate since the I do not know the Zilla's efficiency...
And you are completely correct, at the end of run 4 on Friday the Zombie
was probably still accelerating, Horsepower was rapidly falling off as
back EMF climbed and amps dropped even with the Zilla at 100% PWM.
Mark
Mark Farver
idea of what is happening, But the big question is the controller in
control, or is it out of the loop in a full on position. The real PWM tells
be if it's not at 157 then... the controller is still in the way. Like wise
if the PWM is at 157 you are on your battery limits.
And...Mark Farver... just because your motor volts and battery volts are the
same DOES NOT mean you are NOT accelerating it means your are accelerating
at the limit of what your battery pack can supply at that voltage. This
still could be 100s of Kw with a Z2K involved. In a perfect full power run
you would want to reach this point about 1200 ft down the track.
More later.. I am really busy this morning.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
!DSPAM:431f03b720292867113103!
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Did anyone find out the useful input voltage range of the 220V model?
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
Seems the 120v version will take spikes of up to 190v. So double that for
the 220v version? They also have brownout protection. There was one report
of a user getting the 220v version to work with a 144v system. LR.......
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