EV Digest 4672
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Alternator for psuedo-regen (was "Re: Shunt motor regen setup")
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Battery choices
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: "Low Speed Vehicle"
by "Rick Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Alternator for psuedo-regen (was "Re: Shunt motor regen setup")
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) My Photos, Wayland Invitational & Woodburn
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Siamese 8 Motor Post-racing Update
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: IT'S ALL GOOD / Siamese up-date
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: ADC 9inch troubleshooting
by Nick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Help with battery wiring, avoid looping back
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Help with battery wiring, avoid looping back
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Alternator for psuedo-regen (was "Re: Shunt motor regen setup")
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV Feeding Frenzy
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Help with battery wiring, avoid looping back
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) was Another Newbie - delurking /-Abaptor plate.
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Driving White Zombie
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: cheap, simple EV's Re: EV Feeding Frenzy
by Justin Southam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Driving White Zombie
by Tim Brehm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: was Another Newbie - delurking /-Abaptor plate.
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Motor arrived today!
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EMF flashover was White Zombie Fireball Graph
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) A Weekend at the EV Drags (really long)
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-09-07, Lee Hart wrote:
> Tim wrote:
> > What would an ~90% efficient Etek/Lemco style, direct drive, PM motor
> > do during regen for % efficiency?
>
> The efficiency is basically the same whether used as a motor or a
> generator.
But, of course, a PM direct-drive motor has voltage proportional to RPM,
so it is tricky to get regen at the voltage you need to recharge the
batteries.
Say you've got two 24V batteries in series powering an Etek. You
accelerate up to the full speed of 48V * 72RPM/volt = 3456RPM.
If you try to slow down using regen braking, the motor will generate
a maximum of 3456RPM / 72RPM/volt = 48V ... not enough to
charge your batteries unless you're rolling fast enough
to drive your motor beyond its normal maximum RPM and steep enough
to keep doing so. Not going to happen often.
I was thinking of using a series/parallel setup. If you accelerate
up to full speed in "series", then shift to "parallel", you'll have
(up to) 48V at the motor available to charge your now 24V battery.
By PWMming the regen current you should get nice controllable
decelleration.
You should be able to get some kind of charging down to maybe 28V ==
2016RPM ... that's just under 2/3 of your kinetic energy being
available in any case. A more sophisitimicated 3-speed version
with 6 batteries (or 4-speed with 12 batteries) would give you
more benefits.
Of course, if you've got one of those new-fangled gearboxes in the
drivetrain, you can downshift and overrev the motor that way ...
-----Nick
--
Nick 'Sharkey' Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://zoic.org/sharkey/>
AUSTIN, TEXAS: Sabrina, 6, was abducted by her non-custodial mother on
April 19, 2002. She has been sighted in Mexico City. Reward Offered.
<http://findsabrina.org/> <http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/parent/llorens.htm>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David, Lawrence and All,
David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The SCS225 is not a high current battery. It was designed for trolling
motors at a 25 amp load.
According to BCI specs, an SCS225 should deliver only 300 80% cycles at such
a load (25 amps). Even if your EV requires only 25 amps at cruise (a very
efficient EV), cycle life will still be only 300. You'll get a year's worth
Most batts constantly loaded to 80% discharge will have short life as
you shouldn't use then past 50% discharge for long life and at that you will
get many more cycles out of them. The problem with these batts is people use
too few of then with only a 20% vehicle weight in batts and wonder why they
die. He was talking 72vdc I think which would be 6 in a Rabbit!!! Just not
good.
of use - if you're lucky. Its life will be pitifully short at higher
currents and/or at high temperatures. I've seen similar batteries choke in
,
Similar doesn't cut it, either the same or it doesn't count as you
well know.
a summer's worth of use in an early Solectria Force (180 amps peak).
OTOH, the 5SHP and EV-145 are higher current batteries, with construction
similar to golf car batteries. Even with everything else being equal, they
will last at least twice as long. Here's what Nawaz Qureshi, US Battery
electrochemist, said about the EV-145 in 1999:
"USBMC's EV-145 uses rectangular grids, just like all of the other "jumbo"
deep cycle products from all manufacturers of good batteries. On the bench
test the USBMC's EV-145 will go from 650 to 1000 BCI cycles."
And I said that's more what he should use or the 5shp's or buddy
pair the SCS200- SCS225's for about the same cost. That we should match the
batt to the load. I really don't see a difference in what we are saying other
than your knocking a batt that's being overloaded as I said.
As buddy paired SCS200's cost about the same as the EV145/5SHP with
more lead, I'd bet they would have as good or better life and diffinently more
power, range at the same voltage.
Jerry Dycus
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Low Speed Vehicles" are purposely limited to no more than 25 MPH, and most
states only allow use on streets posted 35 MPH or less. This make sense,
otherwise you would hold up traffic. The reason for the special class is
they are not built to meet the safety standards of regular high speed
on-road vehicles. They get a "pass" because they go slower. They are not
crash tested. They are basically really well built golf cars.
LSV's are ideally suited for urban and downtown areas, where all the streets
are 25 MPH.
Please check this link, and read carefully. Everything is explained:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/rulings/lsv/lsv.html
If you modify an LSV to go faster or alter the registration you may be
breaking the law and you are putting yourself and others in jeopardy.
Rick Barnes
Former LSV Owner
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Hanson
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 6:02 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: "Low Speed Vehicle"
Hi,
I was curious when trying to get a tag for my Bombardier (bought last week),
they had a "Low Speed Vehicle" restriction on the type of vehicle on the
Title. They issue a 25mph restricted tag for this catagory which means I
can't drive it on the roads since most of the country roads around and in
Roanoke are 45mph. Some downtown are 35mph. Anyway is there a title
service someone knows of that can change the restriction? I initially sent
it back asking the seller to change it since he originally had "Utility
Trailer" on it and that got rejected. Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A DC/DC converter can boost the voltage to charge a 48v battery.
However such converters are a bit on the complicated side and extremely
high power inductors are far more pricey than just the high current
transistors which are the major component of a PWM voltage-lowering
strategy.
Danny
Nick 'Sharkey' Moore wrote:
Say you've got two 24V batteries in series powering an Etek. You
accelerate up to the full speed of 48V * 72RPM/volt = 3456RPM.
If you try to slow down using regen braking, the motor will generate
a maximum of 3456RPM / 72RPM/volt = 48V ... not enough to
charge your batteries unless you're rolling fast enough
to drive your motor beyond its normal maximum RPM and steep enough
to keep doing so. Not going to happen often.
I was thinking of using a series/parallel setup. If you accelerate
up to full speed in "series", then shift to "parallel", you'll have
(up to) 48V at the motor available to charge your now 24V battery.
By PWMming the regen current you should get nice controllable
decelleration.
You should be able to get some kind of charging down to maybe 28V ==
2016RPM ... that's just under 2/3 of your kinetic energy being
available in any case. A more sophisitimicated 3-speed version
with 6 batteries (or 4-speed with 12 batteries) would give you
more benefits.
Of course, if you've got one of those new-fangled gearboxes in the
drivetrain, you can downshift and overrev the motor that way ...
-----Nick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://jericho.evparts.com/~roderick/photos/2005-09-07/
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/92 - Release Date: 9/7/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Zorchindectimee 101
John got the motor to the shop today where Matt and I quickly ambulanced the
twins into the shop. In minutes we had the rear plate off and were able to
finally see inside. On top of the major zap that we were able to see at
Woodburn we have located the second zap on the opposing holder but it was in
fact quite small and was located just beneath the spring, on the spring arm (we
did come close to loosing another spring on the other side of the ring). There
are numerous small scrape areas where it looks like what was left of the spring
spun around inside the comm. area before it was ejected, burning in re-entry as
the pieces that dropped out the front of the car that we all saw.
As we inspected the armature, the comm. looked bad, do to the 104 run with no
tension on the one brush. Black soot coated all of the comm. bars and a lot of
the plate assy. With John on the clock he couldnt stay long so after a few
pics we said our goodbyes. I decided to try and run the motor side that was
still intact and try to give a quick sanding to the comm. with 16 inches of
spinning armature hanging out the other side. The front side motor purred to
life and I was able to get a light sanding on the comm. To my delight there
was not a single pit, arc, burn, or groove to be found.
Now back to the plate and brush rigging. Although the flashover was intense,
the holders were steadfast to the upgraded GP-03 board that we had used. This
board suffered no scorching at all, and has only cosmetic smoke discoloring.
Okay I thought, maybe the flash just wasnt that hot. I had just finished that
thought when Matt says dad, look at that screw its melted! Sure enough the
flashover had melted the head of the brush ring mount screw located about an
inch from the arc area (okay thats hot!). We had added a sheet of 10 mil
Nomex Aramid paper under the ring assy. which has been totally krispified where
it protrudes past the brush ring base covering it. It probably saved the plate
from a nice pit.
On to stuff that baffles me. On one of the field coil interconnections that
sit closest to the brush rigging there are small arc marks. There are no
detectable matching marks on that end of the brush holder. I have no idea of
what caused this arcing.
The motors got in late and I have more to look at but all and all everything
seems to be superficial. Now if I can get John to listen to Otmar then he just
might be able to stay on the track even longer. Then again as he was leaving
he was rambling about knowing he can get into the 11s. I think I might need
some aspirin
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you saw how smooth John's Datson was this past weekend youd see why,
although we wern't really looking for a Datson, we were excited about being
able to find the car and Matt got it from a friend for just about nothing.
Sometimes the car I guess chooses you = )
Matt will throw a post in soon and I'll let him tell you the details of what he
invisions.
Cya
Jim Husted
Ray Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
You should just build a tubeframe, ev racecar. It's not that hard to build a
car, just lots of little details. Are these cars running just one gear or is
there some gear shifting going on ?
Thanks
ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: IT'S ALL GOOD / Siamese up-date
> Thanks Rod, After 24 years of building these motors, you guys have brought
back in me a zeal that I have not felt for years. Even after opening my own
shop it just became the same old thing in short time. Matt has a fire so
big under him to get a car going it's funny. Since meeting Mr. Wayland we
have been keeping our eyes out for a light car to convert. As it happened
we ran into a 1972 Datson 1200 fastback that Matt now has at his house and
the stripping of the car will begin as soon as we get our camera which we
will be getting tonight,lol.
> We have much to learn but if all goes as planned with a little help we
will have a Hi-Torque car by Woodburn next year. On another note have you
had time to pull the front motor on GP yet? Keep me posted as to when and
how youd like to get it down to me. And you know what? How sick is it that
you guys are my candy,
> PS: I got the twins back and will be getting the next post out asap on
the findings...
> Cya soon
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
> Roderick Wilde wrote:
> Jim, it was great meeting you in person. You are like a kid in a candy
> store. Your enthusiasm for the sport is infectious and brings much
> excitement to electric drag racing. Welcome aboard as one of the newest
> ampheads on the block. I can't wait to see what kind of racer you will
build
> yourself!
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Husted"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 12:11 PM
> Subject: Re: IT'S ALL GOOD / Siamese up-date
>
>
> > Matt and I were splitting a gut this morning as we posted the post. The
> > funnest part of my video is not Bob and or Matt statements but that of
> > Wayland saying and I quoate " NO,NO,NO, thats OKAY, let him go" It still
> > makes me chuckle. He says it in what sounds like less than one second,
> > and if you listen close you can hear the drool splatter shortly
> > after,lmao.
> >
> > John just called and he is now heading over the mountain with his motor
> > and we should be able to perform a zourchindectimee before we leave
today.
> > Can't tell you how much fun it has been to have been part of what Matt
and
> > I call "the Zourch seen round the world" but it does somehow feel a
little
> > like getting caught in your underwear while checking your mail. I'd like
> > to give credit to whoever coined the phrase Zourched as it is now a
common
> > word here at Hi-Torque. You guys have changed my world and I thank each
> > and every one of you
> > Cya
> > Jim Husted
> >
> > Mark Farver wrote:
> > Christopher Robison wrote:
> >
> >>Credit where credit is due, Matt's voice is clear in that shot because
he
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Actually.. I think everyone is right. Its clearly Bob Rice saying
> > "that's not good" in John's video.. but in Chris's its someone else
> > (presumably Matt).
> >
> > Mark Farver
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/92 - Release Date: 9/7/2005
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/92 - Release Date: 9/7/2005
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not sure if this got through, so pardon any duplication.
Hi Jim,
There is one more thing that I forgot to mention, that might make a
difference:
After I had the truck towed to the tranny shop, I was demonstrating the
problem to the mechanic and as it was twitching and jerking around, it
suddenly started working normally, at which point it was driven onto the
lift in the shop. After they worked on it, it ran normally just long
enough for the mechanic to get stuck around the block when it started
doing the same thing again during the test drive.
Does that make any sense?
Nick
Jim Husted wrote:
When did the problem occur? If you can't get it wound at a good price local
let me know and I'll look into what I'd need to get for one. First off pull
the motor and then pull the armature and drive plate assy. from the motor.
Don't even bother to try to remove the plate and bring it down to a local shop
and ask them to growl test it. Maybe just maybe you have a short somewhere in
the mica slots or along the riser and it can be undercut and removed. To
answer your question sometimes windings just short out and I have seen many a
new looking armature be shorted. Actually, having just went to your website
you are not that far from me. I used to fish the Trinity river up by Burnt
Ranch / Greys Falls area when I was younger. Be nice to swing by pick it up
and drop a line while I was close, lol. As I am just diagnosing from
description lets get that arm tested before you bumm out to hard and go from
there. If in fact the armature windings are shorted, and a rewind just
!
ain't in
the budget (when is it) and you can spare some down time ship it up to me and
I'll try a couple of techniques I've used to successfully remove shorted
windings for others where money was a huge factor. I know it feels like
someone just shot your dog, but keep a stiff upper lip and lets all hope for
the best. Let me know if can help
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Nick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How did I get a short in my armature? Could it be caused by corrosion? I don't
have much of that, but all I've got is a Curtis 1221C controller, so I really
don't think I've been over amping this thing....
Nick
-------Original Message-------
From: Jim Husted
Subject: Re: ADC 9inch troubleshooting
Sent: 06 Sep '05 23:27
You have a text book short in your armature. I bet my last dollar that when
you pull the armature it will show that on a growler. I hate to break the news
but you have a hurt armature in need of rewinding. Hopefully you in fact did
need the bearings and at least that is now in good shape. Hope this helps
please keep me posted as I can use this as a tool to help me diagnose online
problems for others.
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Nick wrote:
Hello all,
I am in need of some troubleshooting assistance. I have a 1992 S-10 conversion
with an ADC 9inch motor and about 16,000 miles on it. When I try to drive it,
the motor will only move in short jerks and the truck does not move. I took it
to a transmission shop, which checked it out; they discovered that the clutch
and pilot bearing were very worn which they replaced. They also checked the
adapter hub on the end of the motor, but it appeared to be fine - it was still
tight, and the key was still in place and did not appear to be sheared. After
reassembling it, the problem is still the same. I have removed and inspected
four of the brushes and visually inspected the other four, and they are still
over an inch long and the spring tension seems to be fine. I also measured the
resistance across the armature while rotating the motor by hand, and I didn't
notice any flutuations. The commutator does not appear to have any unusual wear
on it, but the problem persists. I also operate!
d t!
he motor directly with a single 6-volt battery while watching the commutator
and it moved in the same jerky fashion, just slower. I didn't see any sparks or
any indication of arcing, although I did notice a faint odor like electronics
getting hot.
The transmission mechanic suggested it may be a bad bearing in the motor, but
the motor turns smoothly by hand. Another member of the Humboldt Electric
Vehicle Association suggested that it could be a problem with the field
windings. Does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Nick
www.heva.org
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
-------Original Message-------
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am getting ready to start making jumpers for the batteries in the
300zx. I have 25 orbitals of which I will first connect up the 13 in
back with 4 under the hood so it can be driven to the shop to work on
the racks for the last 8.
Here is a quick and dirty diagram.
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/300zxHVwire.jpg
Here is what I am planning.
The batteries are exide orbitals XCD so they have the darn side posts,
Starting in the middle of a row, back to back, and working out I avoid
the side posts touching.
I tried to keep the potential between any 2 adjacent posts to a minimum.
I plan on putting a ANDERSON plug with a fuse or a jumper to
substitute for the front pack.
Am I on the right track?
As I get closer to completion, I come to realize just how many questions
I have asked this list, I really need to thank you all.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
wow, was getting dizzy trying to follow your wiring path, hehe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 2:28 PM
Subject: Help with battery wiring, avoid looping back
I am getting ready to start making jumpers for the batteries in the
300zx. I have 25 orbitals of which I will first connect up the 13 in
back with 4 under the hood so it can be driven to the shop to work on
the racks for the last 8.
Here is a quick and dirty diagram.
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/300zxHVwire.jpg
Here is what I am planning.
The batteries are exide orbitals XCD so they have the darn side posts,
Starting in the middle of a row, back to back, and working out I avoid
the side posts touching.
I tried to keep the potential between any 2 adjacent posts to a minimum.
I plan on putting a ANDERSON plug with a fuse or a jumper to
substitute for the front pack.
Am I on the right track?
As I get closer to completion, I come to realize just how many questions
I have asked this list, I really need to thank you all.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-09-07, Danny Miller wrote:
> A DC/DC converter can boost the voltage to charge a 48v battery.
> However such converters are a bit on the complicated side and extremely
> high power inductors are far more pricey than just the high current
> transistors which are the major component of a PWM voltage-lowering
> strategy.
Ummm, oh, yeah, I should have mentioned that. If you've got a DC-DC
boost converter handy, use that! There's an efficiency hit there
too though, which is why the series/parallel switch idea appealed to
me ...
-----Nick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>
> At 12:09 PM 9/7/2005, Lee Hart wrote:
> >But I was thinking of something much smaller. A CitiCar done right. Not
> >"luxurious", but good by today's standards. Try to avoid high-priced
> >automotive parts, and look at trailers, golf carts, and other more
> >economical vehicles for parts sources.
>
> i.e. more like a Geo Metro?
Possibly, but Metro parts are not all that cheap or easy to get. At
least around here, they are mostly gone off the roads.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Jeff,
In the picture you seem to have your most negative and most positive
ends of the battery pack right next to each other. I don't know where
they'll end up in the car, but you want to make sure that these
terminals are far apart, or placed such that nothing can touch them
both at the same time (on opposite sides of a wall, for instance).
But you know that, so perhaps I'm misinterpreting something.
On Sep 7, 2005, at 12:28 PM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
I am getting ready to start making jumpers for the batteries in the
300zx. I have 25 orbitals of which I will first connect up the 13 in
back with 4 under the hood so it can be driven to the shop to work on
the racks for the last 8.
Here is a quick and dirty diagram.
http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com/300zxHVwire.jpg
Here is what I am planning.
The batteries are exide orbitals XCD so they have the darn side
posts,
Starting in the middle of a row, back to back, and working out I avoid
the side posts touching.
I tried to keep the potential between any 2 adjacent posts to a
minimum.
I plan on putting a ANDERSON plug with a fuse or a jumper to
substitute for the front pack.
Am I on the right track?
As I get closer to completion, I come to realize just how many
questions
I have asked this list, I really need to thank you all.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Another Newbie - delurking - beam me up scottie
Thanks Steve - just going out to look at the 924 to make sure its "as
described" !!
Can't find the piece on Grassroots' about making your own adaptor plate
and
coupling tho.
There are a few steps , you want your fly wheel , if your keeping the
clutch , to be the same distance for the motor plate as it was for the gas
engine , so you need to measure one side of fly wheel to gas engine ,( where
the tranny would have sat) . This is so the throw out bearing is in the
right place ( you don;t want to have the bearing rubbing on the presser
plate when clutch is engaged or be so far away that it doesn't disengage
when you push on the clutch pebble ) . You'll need to space or shim the
plate or use 2 plates with some spacers in between as the hub that holds the
fly wheel will stick out further that the end of the gas engine crank shaft
. With a plate and spacers all bolted to the motor , I sit the motor so the
fly wheel is pointing up wards , and sit it on something so it won't fall
over . Then I sit the tranny on top so the bell housing is on the motor
plate ( just like when the tranny is bolted to the gas engine ) . got to
get the tranny input shaft into the clutch and all that . now put some
clamps to hold the tranny to the motor plate but don't tighten them to much
. Take a 12v battery and spin the motor . The clutch disk will not be
perfectly centered and the tranny may want to do a little wiggle while the
motor spins around . Tighten the clamps just a little and push down on the
lever that dis in gages the clutch and let it up. This will get the clutch
disk more in the center and the tranny should wiggle less.With the clamps
tight but not to tight , tap on one edge of the tranny with a hammer and
listen to hear if it gets quieter or louder , if louder go to the opposite
side and tap , do this till it makes the least amount of noise. . Then
release the clutch again by pushing on the lever that moves the throw out
bearing so as to again center the disk. Then go around and tap the sides of
the tranny knocking it either more in line or out , your ear will tell you.
Repeat this till it don't get any better. I always go little further so I
can hear it going out of line , then I knock it back. There is one point
when your sliding the tranny around on the motor plate where it gets very
quite and that's the point where you tighten the clamps down very tight and
drill your holes using the bolt holes in the tranny to guide you .. On the
last one I did I got another idea that makes thing even easier . I did a rug
lining up and then marked the holes with a marker , just free hand , then I
drilled the all much bigger the needed . I then make up some 1 inch square
plates 3/8 thick and drilled a hole in the center of the square plates the
exact size of the tranny bolts . I used the 1 inch squares as washers and
put the bolts through them into the tranny , had everything just lose enough
to move,, then did the above lining up trick the I welded the squares to
the motor plate and was done. There are some pictures at
http://www.grassrootsev.com/projects.htm near the bottom of the page , in
the one that has the motor and tranny sitting in the car you can kind of see
the square plates . I've used this trick allot as I can never get the 4
holes to line up perfect with the motor . Now I just drill them over size
and make 4 washer with 3/8s holes in them bolt squares and plate to motor
and weld , .. .I made a video of it and making the hub , which I'm selling
on the web sit , but now you have the idea , .
I was going to turn a tapered split coupler that tightens as
it is compressed by bolts through the flywheel mounting
I like the taper lock hubs , I make mine from pulleys I get at the local
bearing shop , but I don't use the fly wheel bolts to pull it together I put
some recessed bolts in the hub for that.
- to hold the motor
shaft real tight. I wonder if the transmission in the 924 is the same as
any others in the Porsche range of vehicles.
Then starting from some 7/8 stock ally plate mill it to the measurements
of
the transmission.
sounds like you know want your doing , and have some good requirement .
I wonder if I can get dimensions for the electric motor
size from the motor maker to save a little measuring !
I think that's really the job for the dealers , the dealers are support to
be between the manufactures and the customers, so the manufacturers can
manufacture in Pease :-) I can give you the measurements for the 9" net
gain or adc motors even though I never used them ;-)
If there is a nother 924 EV lister doing the same conversion then I would
be
pleased to hear from him.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: Another Newbie - delurking - beam me up scottie
hi John This is the place for your ev questions , you ask some answerer
and
many read and learn ( I hope ) . So it sounds like gas at $10 is enough
to
get people moving to EV's , I am hoping $5 will do it here . The Adaptor
plate is probable the hardest part for most , unless your going to try to
make your own controller ( not advised) . I started making my own
adaptor
plates after my 2nd ev, I got this idea on how to line the motor to the
tranny without doing ANY measuring but its still lots of work , The
adaptor
plate will cost about %10 of the total parts , if you buy it form some of
the people that make them professionally . You will just bolt it in and
be
done . I have made about 12 of them and am getting better at it but I'm
not
sure its a good idea for everybody, it could keep your ev for every
happening , or slow up getting it done. anyway theirs info on doing it
on
the www.grassrootsev.com web site .
Speaking of Porsche 924's what happened to the one that was being done
awhile back by somebody on the list who was coming up with "new " ideas
for
hooking motor up , last I heard after not using the bell housing it was
sold
unfinished , .. ( collage student , ) .
Steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Even if you have not done the 924/944 other tips and tricks for
> initial
> sizing of motor and cells and complexities of producing an adaptor
> plate
> would be very welcome. I plan to do most of the mechanicals including
the
> milling of an adaptor plate (with help) and building monitoring
> electronics
> for looking after the bat pack.
>
> All advice very welcome
>
> TIA
>
> John
>
>
>
>
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/91 - Release Date:
06/09/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim Brehm wrote:
> had major traction issues, spinning the tires and going a little sideways off
> the line.
What size and type are the tires and what was the pressure in them at?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jerry, Lee and All,
I don't know if this is really practical but could you build a "kitcar"
using a golf cart as the donor in the same way as various other kitcars do.
Buy a donor car and bolt parts to new chassis and body. There are lots of
possible issues, availability of donors, suitability of suspension and
brakes to faster vehicle, etc. The really budget conscious could use the
existing controller, motor and charger, upgrading when or if they could
afford it. The vehicle could be serviced by the local golf cart service
company. I have ridden what may have been Roderick Wildes first hopped up
golf cart, 72volts with stock controller and motor and it was no slug!
Since then i believe its had a motor and controller upgrade and regearing
so i expect its quicker still.
Cheers,
Justin
> There is no reason EV's must be expensive. I built the E woody
including new GC batts for about $800. Thanks to it's lightweight and with
a better aero body shape, you could do quite well at a very low cost. As GC
transaxle go for about $100 it shouldn't cost any more than my 3wheeler to
go 4 wheels.
>
> While not a freeway EV, it would be great around town at 45mph or
so. With a 3.5hp transaxle or another GC hop up motor now available, no
reason it wouldn't hit 60 mph with good range.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.19/92 - Release Date: 07-09-05
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think they are 215/60/14's BFG drag radials @ 15psi and they almost rub
the fenders, so running bigger tires inst a good option without flares or
tubbing. I don't think John is willing to cut up the Zombie, but with some
suspension work I think we can get it to hook up off the line.
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Tim Brehm wrote:
> had major traction issues, spinning the tires and going a little sideways off
> the line.
What size and type are the tires and what was the pressure in them at?
---------------------------------
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
some pic of adater and hub being made
http://www.grassrootsev.com/projectresearch.htm
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good News! My motor is in!
Many thanks to Ryan Bohm at www.evsource.com for fine service and follow
through all the way!
Some photos of the motor and the cutout for my adapter plate on my web blog.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you are using ft/S then
New Velocity=Old Velocity + (G's * 32.2 ft/S/S * Delta T)
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Farver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: EMF flashover was White Zombie Fireball Graph
> All of the other DAQ data collected for Woodburn is now online. Still
> have to upload the acceleration data.. that will take a little more time
> as I try to recall how to calculate speed from acceleration...
>
>
> Mark
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy Folks
I been busy.
But Plasma Boy asked me to write something. I suspect I am out of my league
and no match for John as far as verbosity is concerned. :^D
But I will give it a shot.
I drove down from Olympia on Friday afternoon and arrived at the Wayland
Juice Bar around 4 pm. As I anticipated, there was already a swarm of EV
activity and folks. The mad rush to get the Zombie ready for some
record-breaking runs at PIR was well underway.
It was great to meet some new folks that have been involved in the Zombie's
reconstruction. Jim and Matt Husted of High-Torque Electric were there and
we had great time of it all weekend. These folks are definitely gung-ho for
EV competition and bring a wealth of knowledge and enthusiasm. I would bet
that they build their own 'lectric racin' vehicle very soon. It was also
great to meet The Dutchman, Keith Ebeling. His quick-change differentials
and suspension systems are truly works of art.
Other folks there on Saturday include- Tim Brehm, a major part of the Zombie
project and record-setting driver. Mark Mongillo brought his Fiamp, it
always draws a crowd. Bob Rice made his traditional trek from Conneticut in
his Prius. EV lister Keith Vansickle flew up from Sandy Eggo. We had a
contingent of folks from Austin EV who were indispensable as helpers and in
particular with all computer related stuff including Zilla programming and
trackside diagnosis and debugging. Many names I am not remembering :-0
The gates at PIR were opening at 6 pm that night. Around 5 pm I called
Roderick to see what his ETA was. He was still about 2 hours north trying to
find some motor brush screws. :^D So... I told Rod that it didn't look like
we were ready to tow to the track anytime soon and that he may as well head
directly there. He asked me to give Plasma Boy a message that it would be
pretty funny if John did not show up for his own EVent. I also called Rich
Rudman who was looking at about the same time frame for arrival. Rich also
towed directly to the track.
Coming up on 6 pm, and someone was needed to take a trailer and go pick up
the Silver Bullet, in a Fred Meyer parking lot, about fifteen minutes away.
I am generally up for a little adventure and volunteered to take the helm
and navigate thru unfamiliar rush-hour traffic to get the car. I take John's
Jeep Cherokee and trailer, Bob Rice and Keith Vansickle, and head off. Talk
about heavy, that thing has got a load of lead in it. we were able to
sucessfully load and secure tha beast and return without incident.
Time is long, it is now dark, and after a long thrash, we are finally ready.
Looks like we may get to the track by 9. We head off in a loose caravan with
the Zombie and the Silver Bullet in tow, John has his work truck which
serves as a rolling tool box/base of operations, and a place for the
generator.
I ride to the track with the Husted's and I am off to check it out, this
being my first time at this facility. I pull out my trusty EV Global folding
mini ebike (with 100A controller, it goes with me everywhere) and take off
to find Rod and/or Rich. The track is packed. Four long staging lanes with
everything from run-what-cha-brung types to serious drag cars. Lots of 9 and
10 second cars here. I find Roderick and Gone Postal in the middle of the
lanes about 25 cars back. This will be his first run. The magazine article
guy is there (can't remember his name) taking notes, lotsa' folks are coming
by to check out Gone Postal and many mention the TV show.
Also there is Ken Trough visforvoltage.com (that's a plug :-) on his GoPed
scooter chronicling the EVent for posterity as is his nature.
I go back around the Wayland camp and there is Rich Rudman, who has already
made a couple of runs with Goldie by now. The Zombie and the Silver Bullet
and in tech and almost ready to go to the lanes.
The Zombie is well known here and has many fans. Something I heard tonight
from many drag racing enthusiasts like... "These hot drag racers are kewl,
but this battery-powered stuff is even kewler!"
This is great! Now we just gotta get 'em interested enough to build one.
In the lanes... John is surrounded by folks who have lots of questions and
want to see the new setup.
For those who want times and trap speeds, others will have to provide those,
I did not write them down.
Suffice it to say, and, BTW, I did happen to grow up around and involved in
drag racing, the car ran straight as an arrow, the runs were on the cutting
edge from the beginning (even when the series/parallel switch was not
online). The Zombie made run after run, and got better and better, I have
never seen an EV drag racer make such a quick turnover and get back in the
lanes. (PFC-50 heavily loading the generator between rounds helped) As the
night wore on, the track officials let the Zombie bypass the lanes and go
right to the bleach box. This helped alot for the quick turnarounds.
Just a note on the one run by Gone Postal.... this track was slick, there
was gear oil all over the place (everone said their vehicles smelled like it
after the runs) and they did not clean it up to (IMHO) NHRA standards.
That said... Rod and Gone Postal was all over the place the instant it left
the line on it's one run, it was hairy. I though Rod was definitely gonna
hit the wall at one point, But he held onto it and then put it on the
trailer after that one run.
The Silver Bullet made many repeated 15 second runs IIRC.
The last run was at midnight and we all headed for the barn to recharge for
the EV breakfast the next morning at the Village Inn, which is a few blocks
from the Wayland homestead.
-Day Two-
I arrived at the Village Inn about 30 minutes late, There was a great array
of EVs lined up in front, including all the vehicles previously mentioned
here, and on the marque it said there was an EV display onsite. I unloaded
the mini-ebike and put it on display, then headed inside. It was like deja
vu, we have gathered at this place for a few years now, and was like a trip
thru time with the same folks in the same place :^D
After breakfast, we entertained and explained the details to the interested
folks as usual until about noon.
Then... slowly but surely, we all filtered back to the Wayland Juice Bar for
one of the most enjoyable days I have ever had with a great group of
friends/EV enthusiasts. As Rod ripped into the front suspension on Gone
Postal, I did something to Gone Postal I had been threatening to do for over
a year, and that is to paint the inside of the butt-ugly rear motor hatch.
It still had the original factory paint well worn and slimed and looked like
crap.
I mopped and sanded, and taped and masked, and before you know it, we had a
semi-flat black finish back there just in time for photos at Woodburn :^D
Another interesting EV thing- Keith Vansickle brought a 72V Crystalyte BLDC
hubmotor mounted in a 26" bicycle wheel with the controller and twist-grip.
Plasma Boy wasted no time in commandeering his daugter's almost new mountain
bike for experimantation purposes :^D
With Matt Husted in the saddle, and 72V worth of 13Ah Hawkers in a
way-overloaded backpack, that sucker flew to well over 50 mph on the street
in front of John's place. Someone has video. We all yelled "Brakes!" alot.
It was the fastest ebicycle I have ever seen. Jim Husted (Matt's dad) was
relieved to see Matt survive unscathed. :^D
We had a little picnic in the Wayland's modest but beautiful back yard, and
continued to prepare the vehicles for the following race day. It was a
beautiful day in Portland and we all hung out for a long time.
I hit the motel room and put the ebike's battery pack on the charger in
anticipation of a long day at Woodburn.
-Day Three-
The Woodburn NEDRA Nationals, the big one, we had six total competitors. I
believe the figure was 20+ last year.
Well... at least that makes it easy to name them all-
* Rick Barnes, OEVA member with his 120V, Zilla powered Chevy Sprint. This
car made run after reliable run and is also a daily driver. Right On Rick!
* Don "Father Time" Crabtree, I am honored to be able to work on EV projects
with Don everyday. Don's newly constructed bike, the 72V "Son of
FrankenDragon", acheved his goal of a 70 mph 1/4 mile run.
* Dave Cloud, his newly constructed, kustom bodied, Geo Metro with 8 Etek
motors is out to prove you can make a very quick car at relatively low
voltages. He is doing a good job of it so far.
* Tom True, The Silver Bullet, and driver Rich True, sorta just brought out
of mothballs, it made many reliable 15 second runs without breaking
anything.
* John Wayland's White Zombie and driver Tim Brehm, record after record was
broken, what more is there to say?
* Roderick Wilde and Gone Postal, may not have nailed down the quickest
street ET yet, but no one is more "out there" promoting EVs.
Always a crowd pleaser. Actually made a few runs before breaking something
:^D
It was my turn to arrive fashionably late to the races (believe it or not,
The Zombie was first off the trailer Sunday morning). Around eleven, I
finally made it in. I must have been having way too much fun the night
before :-0
I immediately aquired an EVent t-shirt and reported to the tower for my
duties as announcer of the EV runs (the regular track folks are clueless
concerning EVs). We shared the track with the Junior Dragsters as usual. The
attendance at the track was the smallest I have seen it.
Others have reported on the details of the runs. I basically spent much of
the day on my bike taking in as much of the EVent as possible when not in
the tower announcing the runs.
Our awards ceremony was cut a little short due to lack of preparation (bad
Roderick! Bad! :^D) But that meant we got to the after EVent get together
that much quicker.
Some more deja vu at a local asian restaurant with our great group and I
called it a weekend. I think the smaller group this year sorta made it more
fun, though I and others certainly missed the regulars who didn't show.
Can't wait 'till next year!
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
