EV Digest 4786
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Street Conversion vs Modified Conversion
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Streamlined Scooters
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Solar Trailer?
by "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Battery charging in parallel (A Different Idea) Lee?
by "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Industrial motors was: Re: Siemens EV Motors
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Street Conversion vs Modified Conversion
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: fast charger
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Possible motors or build our own. Re: We got the Sunrise !!!
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Street Conversion vs Modified Conversion
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: website for Siemens motors
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Clarification of hook-up of EV-1 to Bradley from post01082 (Jan 2000)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Industrial motors was: Re: Siemens EV Motors
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) First drive impressions
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: fast charger
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: SOC
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: fast charger
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) My S-10 again - ABS
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) TS Connecting Questions
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Cable Crimping Tools
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Street Conversion vs Modified Conversion
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a link to my $21 2/0 crimpers
http://www.haritech.com/crimp.htm
Use 4 foot bolt cutters. Three foot bolts cutters will work, but
you must shorten the socket and make a thinner crimp.
At 09:22 AM 10/1/2005, you wrote:
Doug wrote:
> I'm building my cables now - QuickCable copper terminals on the SAE
> posts on Orbital batteries.
Are you using #2/0 cables? What are you crimping them with?
I'm about to do my cables and have a 2' bolt cutter that I was going to
turn into a crimper but don't know what size hex socket to use. I looked
at some cables connections and 1/2" looks right. Can anybody say whether
that is the correct size or not?
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Paul G. wrote:
One must carefully consider not allowing roll cages in an SC class
car. First, that means that new records will end in the 12's - NHRA
won't accept 11's without a cage. Second, someone may want to run a VW
kit car some day. They require a cage unless they are not competitive
(and NHRA is right about that - they have little side impact strength
and are squirrely at speed.)
These are good points. I'm not closed to the idea of a roll cage, and
safety should always come first, but my personal feeling is that a roll
cage screams 'race car'. But then again, the Tango comes factory
equipped with a full cage....hmmmm.
How does everyone else feel about this? Is having a roll cage in a
street conversion class EV to much 'race' and moving away from 'street',
or, is it a proper step for an SC class EV to take as it gets quicker
through the quarter mile? How about swapping tires once one gets to the
track and running slicks? I still feel that slicks should be reserved
for MC class vehicles, but it sure would be fun to see what my low 12
second car (man, that sounds good) could do with the extra catapult
action out of the hole real slicks provide! I could do this and not
submit the time slips to NEDRA to keep things fair in the SC class, just
to see if White Zombie can pull 11's...then again, the damn thing just
might pull a high 11 on street tires :-)
>I look forward to seeing the rules, voltage and class, reviewed. It
means that EV racing is growing - the varied opinions about what the
>rules mean is showing.
Me too. I'd like to hear from NEDRA board members and get their valued
opinions. NEDRA? Bill Dube?
See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have one I got stright from Craig. It should really do the job. I've had
mine for a while. If someone twisted my arm I might let it go. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 8:47 PM
Subject: Streamlined Scooters
if anyone here is seriously considering making a streamlined
two-wheeler, this might be of interest:
http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/470MPG/high%20mileage%20fairing.html
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
> No reason to expect any solid state or transformer charger not to
> work.
There are cases.
If the inverter is an older one that only produces approximately 60hz, a
charger using a constant voltage transformer wont' work right (their output
voltage changes with frequency). I have a 20-year-old inverter with this
problem (frequency is about 66hz no-load to 59hz at full load).
If the charger has a PFC front end, it's likely to get upset with
non-sinewave input inverters (the PFC loop has a low-pass filter and can't
respond to the fast-changing input voltages, so the power factor correction
probably won't work). I have a Megapower PFC switchmode power supply with a
PF of 0.99 with a sinewave input, but only 0.8 on a squarewave inverter.
Finally, a really cheaply-made transformer charger may overheat or burn up
on a 'modified sinewave' (i.e. squarewave) inverter, because it has so
little safety factor. I've had wall-warts burn out from this, for example.
--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry Dycus wrote:
> If anyone can match the 2 motor series setup with AC, BLDC, PM,
> please let me know, but I don't know of any that even come close.
> The 10-1 diff it used is still available if a high rpm AC, ect can be
found.
The Sunrise II is going to be an expensive, higher-end EV. As such, I don't
see much reason for doing it "on the cheap". I can see two possible routes;
an ultra-efficient, quiet, clean, commuter much like Solectria's vision.
Or, a tire-burning, high-performance sports car, more like the EV1 vision.
For the Solectria version, AC makes sense. If the 10:1 differential is
readily available, then using one of Victor's Siemens AC motors and
inverters may be the most attractive option. Or, Solectria is a small
company; if they could build an AC motor and controller, so could we. We
might be able to do a design turn on the Solectria design, and tweak it up
with newer parts at a more reasonable cost.
Without access to the special differential or a good source of AC motors
and inverters, a pair of DC motors and PWM controller may be the best
choice. It could certainly deliver breathtaking performance, as befitting a
sports car. I am very impressed by what a pair of ADC motors and Zilla
controller can do!
For DC, Bob Schneeviess proposed a good drive setup. He found a source of
high quality 5:1 gear reducers that bolt onto the end of ADC motors.Mount
the two motors transversely, one in front, one in back. The front motor's
gear reducer is on the left, staggers its shaft rearward, and connects to
the right front wheel. The rear motor's gear reducer is on the right,
staggers its shaft forward, and connects to the left front wheel. The two
shafts are offset a few inches so they miss each other. The universal
joints take up the small angular difference to accomodate this. This gets
rid of the differential and has a single in-line gear reduction for
efficiency.
--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> As I am or maybe a sep-ex but most likely the least
expensive with good power will be a 2 motor series or series/parallel setup
direct driving it thru a differential. Modern large forklift controllers
make this easy to do now as they are designed for twin motors, higher
voltages.
>
>
> The drive system I'm looking at costs well under $2k for the
motor/controller/contactors with 600 motor amps and serious torque, about
as much as the front drive/suspension will handle probably.
>
>
>
> designed for AC. A DC drive is possible of course, but without a
> transmission, a big enough DC motor and PWM controller may cost as much
> as an AC drive.
>
> > We will have a 2 seat sportscar with rear drive for the really hot,
> > fast EV market with really great looks, easily out classing most on
> > the market now.
>
> I thought the Sunrise was a 4-seater; a mid-sized car like a Camry. Or
> are you talking here about a different vehicle?
>
>
> Yes it is, there is another composite monocoque EV spportscar
in our future though the Freedom EV and Sunrise must be done first.
>
> And probably a mini van, SUV and mini-pick up on the Sunrise
chassis too. As most of the work will already be done, just make new
bodies for the chassis will be realitively easy compared from starting from
scratch. And the 3 will share doors, the hardest part of building a car,
truck.
>
> Bob took a ride in James' Sunrise and even at his really tall
size, fit comfortably. Maybe Bob could tells us about that ride,
impressions?
>
> Reading it's brouchure I have, it has 2 airbags too.
>
>
> > You get that EV1 gem-like finish and you will get your business some
> > attention.
>
> That's for sure! A Sunrise could be a perfect replacement for mourning
> EV1 drivers.
>
>
>
> That's a major market for it, EV-1 ex owners. I'd like to
beat the EV-1 in every way we can performance wise and with the lower
Sunrise's weight, I believe it's possible and do it at a reasonable cost.
>
> Plus as a 4 seater, it has much wider appeal than the EV-1
could ever have.
>
> I'm hoping that within the yr it takes to produce it, good,
reilable Li-ions will be available so it can have a 300 mile range. If
Kokams could become affordable as they ramp up to mass production, it would
be really sweet !!
>
>
>
> As in all my EV's I'll build, it will be repairable easily by the
owner with most anything taking 30 minutes or much less to repair or
replace with mostly locally available parts.
>
> Also upgradeable fairly easy to any new tech that comes along.
>
> We need to come up with a new name as we can't use Sunrise and it
will be modified to improve it so it won't be anyway.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry Dycus
> --
> "One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
> shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! for Good
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dewey, Jody R wrote:
> So maybe the solution would be to pair up the batteries and charge them in
> sequence with more amperage? Or maybe use more than one charger and split
> up the chores in two switch assemblies?
You can do this. Dean Grannes used one of my Balancers to run four separate
300w chargers, each one being used to sequentially charge 4 batteries.
--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
> about twice the price of the cheapest Zilla.
> Their drives would go up to 800V
How good would these work in an EV? Do you have any plans of bringing
these out to the EV market?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So long as it's street legal, I personally wouldn't have a
problem racing an 11 second EV in the SC class if I were to
build one myself.
But I do see your dilemma. This is dangerous ground as it
can become a sport where the guy with the most money sets
the records.
But there are also quite a few cars that come equipped with
roll cages straight from the factory, like the Tango that
was mentioned. It would no longer be a stock Datsun, but
then again it isn't as it is today.
Besides, you do have Blue Meanie still.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, The PFC-50 stocker will produce 50 amps.
The Buck Enhanced PFC-50 will draw 50 amps from 240 (12 kW in) is ~90 %
efficient (10.8 kW out) for 54 amps into a 200 Volt load.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 3:54 AM
Subject: Re: fast charger
> Hi Joe,
> 45 @ 200V. Including the car's onboard charger, the total is 58A.
> For an off-the-shelf solution, would the PFC50 be comparable?
> Thanks
> Evan
>
> On 9/30/05, Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > How many amps did you deliver and at what voltage?
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > Fiesta 48 volts
> > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>; "Anton
Bech"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 11:51 AM
> > Subject: fast charger
> >
> >
> > > I just gave my fast charger its first proper test run. It's about
> > > 13kW in total (isolated), with the car's charger providing 3kW of
> > > that.
> > > The pack is 100AH, 162V NiCad.
> > >
> > > It took 32 minutes to charge from 25% to 75%. Normally that would
> > > take about 4 hours or so, so I'm quite happy with it. Based on this,
> > > it should take less than 1 hour to charge from the usual minimum of
> > > 20% to full, which is worth 40 miles (or more driven carefully).
> > >
> > > The charger is supplied with 230V, single phase. This is the standard
> > > supply to all houses in the UK, usually at 80 or 100A, although just
> > > to be different my house is 3 phase and only 60A. Anyway, the fuse
> > > held although the lights seriously dimmed! I used a 63A MCB and an
> > > enormous 63A plug and socket. Unfortunately I couldn't find any flex
> > > big enough, and the ex-welder supply cable I used was getting a bit
> > > hot after 30 minutes, which is why I stopped it at that point.
> > >
> > > Many thanks to Peter Perkins for donation of the vital parts!
> > >
> > > I will put some pictures on my web page after I've found a decent
> > > mains cable for it.
> > >
> > > http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2/myev.html
> > >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee and All,
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jerry Dycus wrote:
> If anyone can match the 2 motor series setup with AC, BLDC, PM,
> please let me know, but I don't know of any that even come close.
> The 10-1 diff it used is still available if a high rpm AC, ect can be
found.
The Sunrise II is going to be an expensive, higher-end EV. As such, I don't
It depends on what we want to sell it for, if DC it can be sold for
$20k, if AC like Victors, it's $25k If Ni-cad too, it's $30k.
But Victor's isn't good as he can't supply the needed number of units
even if we went that way. So buying new Siemens instead of surplus would drive
the price up another $5k.
see much reason for doing it "on the cheap". I can see two possible routes;
I wouldn't call it on the cheap, just correct pricing. And those who
want to spend more can. But I doubt many will pay the higher price for a slower
AC car.
And lets not forget repair cost which would be many times higher on
Victor's units than it would cost for a new controller or motor in my version.
an ultra-efficient, quiet, clean, commuter much like Solectria's vision.
At $.01 vs $.009 or $.001/mile fuel cost difference, I don't believe
many will justify it on eff basis. Especially if the higher cost one is slower,
more costly to maintain, more expensive to replace batteries, ect.
They would be much better off just going Ni-cad for the money spent.
Or, a tire-burning, high-performance sports car, more like the EV1 vision.
My version will easily burn rubber and about as much power as the
front wheel drive can handle with 2 L91 motors and a 600 motor amp controller.
So meets the EV-1 like power goal easily in an EV that weighs 2/3's of the EV-1
.
For the Solectria version, AC makes sense. If the 10:1 differential is
readily available, then using one of Victor's Siemens AC motors and
inverters may be the most attractive option. Or, Solectria is a small
company; if they could build an AC motor and controller, so could we. We
might be able to do a design turn on the Solectria design, and tweak it up
with newer parts at a more reasonable cost.
I agree we could build a better motor for mush less cost but lets
build the EV's first before we go into the motor/controller business. It's best
to do only a couple new things at once so not to have too many possible failure
points when starting up.
But I can easily see us in the near future, building a BLDC motor
for all the EV's I'll build and for other EVer's too. I need it as a generator
for my Non dam hydro gens anyway so one will be in the future, just not now.
I'd like to see Rich build a 120vdc version of the AC motor
controller he built for his minibike from hell though we would need a motor to
match it so I won't have to build my motor/controller.
Though no reason the group couldn't start an open source motor,
controller design if someone wanted to take that ball and run with it. It's
something we all really need, an Eff, low price BLDC motor, controller. It
would be a great winter project. And I've done the numbers and it should cost
less than $600 to build in disc form with the controller.
Until a reasonable priced AC or BLDC motor, controller is available
at a reasonable price, I don't see it in my EV's. for now, series is king.
Without access to the special differential or a good source of AC motors
and inverters, a pair of DC motors and PWM controller may be the best
choice. It could certainly deliver breathtaking performance, as befitting a
sports car. I am very impressed by what a pair of ADC motors and Zilla
controller can do!
If you are satisfied with 14 sec 1/4 mile times which is plenty fast,
you can do it without a Zilla and it's cost since we can keep our weight low.
One can always do a bypass contactor for much higher power levels.
For DC, Bob Schneeviess proposed a good drive setup. He found a source of
high quality 5:1 gear reducers that bolt onto the end of ADC motors.Mount
the two motors transversely, one in front, one in back. The front motor's
gear reducer is on the left, staggers its shaft rearward, and connects to
the right front wheel. The rear motor's gear reducer is on the right,
staggers its shaft forward, and connects to the left front wheel. The two
shafts are offset a few inches so they miss each other. The universal
joints take up the small angular difference to accomodate this. This gets
rid of the differential and has a single in-line gear reduction for
efficiency.
We could do the same thing with belt reductions if we want at a lower
cost probably as gear reducers in that power, torque range are not cheap or
light.
An interesting version could be 2 E teks for regen, eff, cruise with
1 series motor added to them for acceleration.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
--
Lee Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> As I am or maybe a sep-ex but most likely the least
expensive with good power will be a 2 motor series or series/parallel setup
direct driving it thru a differential. Modern large forklift controllers
make this easy to do now as they are designed for twin motors, higher
voltages.
>
>
> The drive system I'm looking at costs well under $2k for the
motor/controller/contactors with 600 motor amps and serious torque, about
as much as the front drive/suspension will handle probably.
>
>
>
> designed for AC. A DC drive is possible of course, but without a
> transmission, a big enough DC motor and PWM controller may cost as much
> as an AC drive.
>
> > We will have a 2 seat sportscar with rear drive for the really hot,
> > fast EV market with really great looks, easily out classing most on
> > the market now.
>
> I thought the Sunrise was a 4-seater; a mid-sized car like a Camry. Or
> are you talking here about a different vehicle?
>
>
> Yes it is, there is another composite monocoque EV spportscar
in our future though the Freedom EV and Sunrise must be done first.
>
> And probably a mini van, SUV and mini-pick up on the Sunrise
chassis too. As most of the work will already be done, just make new
bodies for the chassis will be realitively easy compared from starting from
scratch. And the 3 will share doors, the hardest part of building a car,
truck.
>
> Bob took a ride in James' Sunrise and even at his really tall
size, fit comfortably. Maybe Bob could tells us about that ride,
impressions?
>
> Reading it's brouchure I have, it has 2 airbags too.
>
>
> > You get that EV1 gem-like finish and you will get your business some
> > attention.
>
> That's for sure! A Sunrise could be a perfect replacement for mourning
> EV1 drivers.
>
>
>
> That's a major market for it, EV-1 ex owners. I'd like to
beat the EV-1 in every way we can performance wise and with the lower
Sunrise's weight, I believe it's possible and do it at a reasonable cost.
>
> Plus as a 4 seater, it has much wider appeal than the EV-1
could ever have.
>
> I'm hoping that within the yr it takes to produce it, good,
reilable Li-ions will be available so it can have a 300 mile range. If
Kokams could become affordable as they ramp up to mass production, it would
be really sweet !!
>
>
>
> As in all my EV's I'll build, it will be repairable easily by the
owner with most anything taking 30 minutes or much less to repair or
replace with mostly locally available parts.
>
> Also upgradeable fairly easy to any new tech that comes along.
>
> We need to come up with a new name as we can't use Sunrise and it
will be modified to improve it so it won't be anyway.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry Dycus
> --
> "One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the
> shore for a very long time." -- Andre Gide
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John, John and All,
I too see no reason not to use a rollbar especilly in
your car as all newer cars are required to have rollbar strength in their roofs
now by law. So you would just be doing what they have built in.
My Ev will have a complete rollcage built between the
body skins, you just won't be able to see it. I wouldn't build a car/ EV
without one of some type.
If you or your driver had a flat or someone ran into you,
it could be invaluable.
And we want to see you keep breaking things so we don't
have too. And congarts on your records, Way to go John !!
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So long as it's street legal, I personally wouldn't have a
problem racing an 11 second EV in the SC class if I were to
build one myself.
But I do see your dilemma. This is dangerous ground as it
can become a sport where the guy with the most money sets
the records.
But there are also quite a few cars that come equipped with
roll cages straight from the factory, like the Tango that
was mentioned. It would no longer be a stock Datsun, but
then again it isn't as it is today.
Besides, you do have Blue Meanie still.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Osmo. I had a suspicion and was afraid of that.
Charles
On Sunday, October 02, 2005 4:16 PM, Osmo Sarin wrote:
The Siemens EV department for passenger vehicle AC drives doesn't exist
anymore. There is a department which develops large drives for busses
for
example:
http://www2.automation.siemens.com/ld/bahnen/html_00/elfa/elfa-01.html
Osmo
2.10.2005 kello 18:30, Charles Whalen kirjoitti:
Does anyone know the URL for the Siemens website listing their AC
induction
EV propulsion motors that Victor sells at
www.metricmind.com/motor.htm. I
tried www.siemensvdo.com but didn't find them there.
Thanks,
Charles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Back in January 2000, Roger Stockton posted this diagram of
> the hookup for the EV-1 controller in the Bradley GTE. It
> all makes sense to me except the part about the PMT Driver.
> It has been a while since I replaced one of these, but I
> believe last time, I hooked a relay between R3 and
> ground and used that to drive the contactor. I don't recall
> anything about a PMT driver (unless it is already built into
> the EV-1B base (under the card)). I did a search on PMT
> driver at Flight Systems and had no luck determining what it
> is supposed to look like or where on the base it is located.
> By the way, what is a PMT driver and what is it used for?
"PMT" stands for 'Pulse Monitor Trip'. It refers to the safety feature
built into the EV-1 that has it check that the main SCR turns off at the
end of each and every pulse and drops out the main contactor should the
main SCR ever remain on when it should be off.
You cannot (or should not be able to) use a relay directly powered from
R3 to make the ground connection to the contactor as the R3 output can
only deliver a few mA.
The PMT driver looks like a black plastic rectangle with 3 or 4 0.250"
male faston terminals along one edge and a mounting hole drilled through
it. Internally it is nothing more than an NPN transistor with a series
diode to prevent the main contactor from being able to pick up if the
battery pack is connected with reverse polarity.
A separate 1A driver is required for the 1A bypass contactor, should you
be using that feature.
We do tend to use these controllers a bit differently than the typical
forklift did/does, however, I think it is very important to ensure that
the contactor is wired such that the controller can drop it out for
safety should a problem occur. You may wish to use contactors in both
the pack +ve and -ve leads, with one controlled by the keyswitch and the
other by the EV-1. There is no need for pre-charge with this
controller, as it has no bus caps, however you do need to provide a
keyswitch-controlled means of supplying traction pack voltage to the
control card so that the logic can come up and pull the remaining main
contactor in when it determines it is safe to do so. On this note, one
of the first things the EV-1 does when you power it up is to attempt to
charge the large commutating capacitors; if they fail to charge to a
suitable fraction of the pack voltage within the allowed time, the EV-1
will *not* pull in the main contactor. Make sure that the means you
provide for supplying traction voltage to the controller logic card is
capable of supplying at least a few amps (I think the manuals show this
line fused at 10A) to ensure that there are no problems associated with
charging the commutator caps for this self-test.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan and all
At 07:19 PM 2/10/05 -0500, Ryan Stotts wrote:
James Massey wrote:
> about twice the price of the cheapest Zilla.
> Their drives would go up to 800V
How good would these work in an EV?
Adequately, but the issues are to do with the mass and size of the inverter
(physically big and fairly heavy) and that it is not designed for the
application and has a fair bit of 'tuning' to make the drive match a motor.
At higher voltages there is the issue of how do you charge and manage such
a long string, and can you even get batteries whose cases have sufficient
dilectric strength. The customers' job I mentioned was a boat - so the
dynamics of the system were pretty simple. and the battery string was to be
in insulated boxes of high dilectric strength, with lids that required
pulling fuses before opening.
The mass of the inverters could be significantly reduced - the power stage
could be put on a watercooled heatsink, the mounting rails and principle
chassis replaced by lighter ones. The input rectifier and filter chokes
could mostly go. The buss capacitors could be reduced since they will be
across the battery.
Do you have any plans of bringing these out to the EV market?
I certainly don't, but I can dig out the info of the inverter we found and
let everyone know what it is if anyone wants. What anyone else does is not
my responsibility.
Lee may have some comments. Lee?
James
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Bill,
So my 1/2" hex will be ok, it translates to 12.7mm, close enough for me. The
bolt cutters have 2' handles, but from end of cutting jaw to end of handle they
are 3'. Will I get enough leverage from that? I can put some cheater handles on
it for more leverage.
With your 4' crimper you made 2 crimps, does that mean with my 3' crimper and
shortened socket, I can make 3 crimps?
I looked thru your other pages and your http://www.haritech.com/relay.htm looks
very neat. Very nice tight package.
Is there any reason why you didn't take all the status lights and switches and
just run them into the passenger compartment? Also you don't happen to have a
schematic that I can base my circuits on, even a rough one would be very
helpful.
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Cable Crimping Tools
> Here is a link to my $21 2/0 crimpers
>
> http://www.haritech.com/crimp.htm
>
> Use 4 foot bolt cutters. Three foot bolts cutters will work, but
> you must shorten the socket and make a thinner crimp.
>
> At 09:22 AM 10/1/2005, you wrote:
>>Doug wrote:
>> > I'm building my cables now - QuickCable copper terminals on the SAE
>> > posts on Orbital batteries.
>>
>>Are you using #2/0 cables? What are you crimping them with?
>>
>>I'm about to do my cables and have a 2' bolt cutter that I was going to
>>turn into a crimper but don't know what size hex socket to use. I looked
>>at some cables connections and 1/2" looks right. Can anybody say whether
>>that is the correct size or not?
>>
>>Thanks
>>Rush
>>Tucson AZ
>>www.ironandwood.org
>>
>>
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Check my math, I have a DMM conected to a shunt for amperage as my only
display. So this is an estimate.
I took a couple of first drives today and I cruised at 72 to 144 amps
3rd gear about 45 to 55 mph
The most I saw was 312 amps during an acceleration.
considering a 204Volt(17*12) system that is cruiseing at ~14.4kw to ~29kw
If I held this up for an hour I would get 45 to 50 miles
14000wh / 45mile = 311wh/mile
29000wh / 50mile = 580 wh/mile
Seems a little high?
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--- Begin Message ---
Sharon and listers.
Batman Chargers???
Our PFC50 chargers can deliver 11Kw of charge power from a 50 amps 240 VAC
single phase "Stove outlet"
This is the largest common outlet available In the USA.
This is pretty close to the 13Kw that You can get from a 60 amps 240 UK
supply.
And you can Stack PFC50s if you wish...doubling or tripling the charge power.
I also have a 75kw Charger on line in the R&D shop that can deliver 75000
watts continuously.
This is 400 amps of 191 volts DC. Give or take a few Kw...
We made 424 amps on test run Last week. So...Yes it is a real product....
We call this the UBer Monster charger... and get this .... they want a 150 Kw
version...soon.
So..... it's a matter of how much money do you wish to spend and how fast you
want to charge.
Costs for the PFC50 series is on my Website and is basically $2600 for the
high voltage unit and $3000 for the higher amperage and lower voltage capable
PFC50B.
I have 40 of these units in the field....So...Again I have some experience
with these systems.
So.... how fast to you want to go? it' just Cubic Dollars.
The 75Kw series starts at $25,000 This is 30 Cents per watt. Only serious
inquiries... folks. I still can't really show off this product. But I will
have some ...photo's of the power tests from later in this week. Expect piles
of glowing Nichrome. This level of charge power is for industrial
applications only. I have to find 100 amps of 480 Three phase power.
Sharon Hoopes wrote:
> What would be the cost?? (U.S, DOLLARS) FOR A "BATTMAN SYSTEM" .???
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> After sitting over night the pack was at 216Volts 17
> orbitals * 12.8 = 217.6 so I thought it was close to
> fully charged.
The open circuit voltage of a fully charged voltage Optima is 13.1V.
Hawker states that for their Genesis batteries (read off a graph, so
approximate):
100% ~12.85V
80% 12.6V
60% 12.3V
50% 12.2V
30% 11.9V
20% 11.8V
10% 11.7V
Not sure where your Orbitals fall on this scale, but I would guess
nearer the Optima end of things.
> I am rechargeing now and i wanted to ask how full is the pack
> when you just hit the acceptance charge voltage of 14.4/cell
> ? = 245V (Is 14.4 the proper acceptance voltage? how do I
> tempeture compensate?) is it almost full or 80% full?
It depends on the charge current, but generally speaking you will be
somewhere around 80% full at this point. 14.4V = 2.4V/cell, which is on
the conservative side of sane.
Temperature compensate by adding 0.005V/cell/degree C that the battery
temperature is below 25C. For your pack, 0.5V/degree C is close enough.
If the battery temperature is over 25C, reduce the charge voltage by the
same 0.5V/degree C.
> I don't have regs yet so I am manually balancing with a 12V
> charger till it hits 14.7. I am afraid that means they are
> 80% charged only and need 2 more hours at 1.5 amps
Correct. If you can get your hands on a DC supply adjustable say from
0-20V and capable of delivering a few amps, you can use it instead of
the 12V charger to top up the batteries individually. Use a series
diode between the supply and battery to protect the supply. Set it to
14.7, if that is what you are comfortable with, and leave it on each
battery until the current drops to 0.1A or so.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Evan Tuer wrote:
> Hi Joe,
> 45 @ 200V. Including the car's onboard charger, the total is 58A.
> For an off-the-shelf solution, would the PFC50 be comparable?
> Thanks
> Evan
>
>
The PFC50B would make just a touch over 10,000 watts at this power level.
The supply here would be 50 amps of 240 VAC 60 Hz.
We could most likely turn the screws up to 60 amps for you Blokes.
So Yea a PFC50B would be just about the equal of your system.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello everybody:
I told you about the speedometer problem and its solution. I am pretty
sure that others might stumble into that problem at some point in time.
My next topic is breaks / ABS. The ABS system is disconnected but the
break lines still run through it. However, the breaks don't respond as
good as on another S-10 with an ICE I have, also with a disconnected ABS
system.
I do have a suction pump and vacuum is good. From my understanding, the
ABS system should not interfere with normal breaking if disconnected. But
is it possible that it still, in some mysterious way, disables me from
getting my wheels locked? I don't have air in the breaks or break lines,
no noise when hitting the breaks hard, just not the breaking power I have
on the other truck.
Any ideas?
Michaela
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm so new at all of this, that I need answers to even simple questions.
First, when connecting TS cells to each other in series, I need a 2/0 cable
plus a #12 monitoring wire on each terminal. Do I put the 2/0 wire's lug
against the terminal, then the #12 wire's small lug on top of that, then a
lock washer, and then bolt them all in place?
Second, the TS cells have about a 5/16 inch bolt hole. But at Home Depot,
Ace Hardware, etc., then only little lugs I can find are ones with 1/4 inch
or 3/8 inch holes. The 1/4 inch is obviously too small--I tried reaming it
on the drill press, but that just mangled it. Yet the edge of the 3/8 seems
so thin, basically the lug is the same diameter as the 1/4 inch, but with a
bigger hole in the middle. Are the 3/8 inchers okay to use, or is there
someplace that I can buy lugs with a 5/16 inch hole?
Finally, do I need a holdback when tightening the bolt onto the TS cell?
I'm having trouble finding a wrench thin enough to fit between the cell's
top and the 2/0 lug. The best I can think of at this point is to buy a
router wrench and grind it down. If, on the other hand, I don't need a
holdback, how do I know when I've gotten the bolt tight enough to hold
without torquing too hard and damaging the cell terminal?
Thanks for putting up with a neophyte.
Bill Dennis
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--- Begin Message ---
Let me start out by saying that I do NOT recommend using a hammer
crimper. They kinda work, but a hex crimper does a much better job.
At 08:35 PM 10/2/2005, you wrote:
Thanks Bill,
So my 1/2" hex will be ok, it translates to 12.7mm, close enough for me.
You will have to adjust the jaws outward slightly. Small fractions
of an inch matter.
The bolt cutters have 2' handles, but from end of cutting jaw to end of
handle they are 3'. Will I get enough leverage from that?
Could be. If you work out a lot. If you are of average strength,
the 3 footers may not be long enough.
I can put some cheater handles on it for more leverage.
Too awkward. Thin the socket (hex) so the crimp width will be more
narrow.
With your 4' crimper you made 2 crimps, does that mean with my 3' crimper
and shortened socket, I can make 3 crimps?
Two crimps are all that are needed.
I looked thru your other pages and your http://www.haritech.com/relay.htm
looks very neat. Very nice tight package.
Is there any reason why you didn't take all the status lights and switches
and just run them into the passenger compartment?
It is not a good idea to bring a lot of high voltage into the
driver's compartment.
Also you don't happen to have a schematic that I can base my circuits
on, even a rough one would be very helpful.
I should have kept better notes. :^)
The Zilla installation manual on http://www.cafeelectric.com is a
good place to start.
If i had it to do all over again, I would have started with a
bigger box and made it more accessible.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The reason for classifying the cars at all is to provide "protection" for
the lower budget racers from the all-out purpose-built dragsters. If you
want to compete, but don't want to go head-to-head with a $100,000 1/4 mile
monster, you pick a class that fits your car and your budget.
The dividing line between street conversion (SC) and modified
conversion (MC) is that the SC cars must be 100% street legal.
The fact that John drives his car to the track really drives it
home with a mallet that the White Zombie fits within the definition of the
SC class.
John may decide that his budget is big enough to put on
wrinkle-wall slicks (not street legal) and shoot for the low 11's in the MC
class. Alternatively, he may decide to stay 100% street legal and continue
to whittle away at his ET.
At 05:37 PM 10/3/2005, you wrote:
Hello to All,
Paul G. wrote:
One must carefully consider not allowing roll cages in an SC class car.
First, that means that new records will end in the 12's - NHRA won't
accept 11's without a cage. Second, someone may want to run a VW kit car
some day. They require a cage unless they are not competitive (and NHRA
is right about that - they have little side impact strength and are
squirrely at speed.)
These are good points. I'm not closed to the idea of a roll cage, and
safety should always come first, but my personal feeling is that a roll
cage screams 'race car'. But then again, the Tango comes factory equipped
with a full cage....hmmmm.
How does everyone else feel about this? Is having a roll cage in a street
conversion class EV to much 'race' and moving away from 'street', or, is
it a proper step for an SC class EV to take as it gets quicker through the
quarter mile? How about swapping tires once one gets to the track and
running slicks? I still feel that slicks should be reserved for MC class
vehicles, but it sure would be fun to see what my low 12 second car (man,
that sounds good) could do with the extra catapult action out of the hole
real slicks provide! I could do this and not submit the time slips to
NEDRA to keep things fair in the SC class, just to see if White Zombie can
pull 11's...then again, the damn thing just might pull a high 11 on street
tires :-)
>I look forward to seeing the rules, voltage and class, reviewed. It
means that EV racing is growing - the varied opinions about what
the >rules mean is showing.
Me too. I'd like to hear from NEDRA board members and get their valued
opinions. NEDRA? Bill Dube?
See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
Bill Dube'
National Technical Director
National Electric Drag Racing Association
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
