EV Digest 4869
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Radiator
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Dynasty VLRA Stecifications.
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) 3-4 Seconds Behind 'best of class gas cars'?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 3-4 Seconds Behind 'best of class gas cars'?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: OJ2 to run at Mason Dixon on Nov. 5th
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: PFC-20 Running off Prius HV Pack/mower
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Perpetual Motion for one year!Taiwan Daze
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: 3-4 Seconds Behind 'best of class gas cars'?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 3-4 Seconds Behind 'best of class gas cars'?
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Water filling systems.
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Standardization of wire gauge in advertising?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Unsubscribe Me -- NOW
by "Wayne Foreman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Perpetual Motion for one year!Taiwan Daze
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: 3-4 Seconds Behind 'best of class gas cars'?
by "August Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Perpetual Motion for one year!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Perpetual Motion for one year!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Perpetual Motion for one year!
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Phil,
If I'm not mistaken, that is exactly what I was trying to explain
so thanks for confirming, I may have made it too complicated to be clear.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Phil Marino
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 2:27 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Radiator
>From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>Subject: RE: Radiator
>Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:35:03 -0700
>
>Actually you have found your problem by giving these numbers:
>Water boils at 212 at sea-level pressure.
>Seeing your temp going to 220-230 means that it's already
>super-heated and likely boiling inside your engine, unless
>you have a high pressure in your cooling system.
>
There is no problem with the coolant temperature being above 212F. Every
ICE car engine is sealed and equipped with a pressure cap. This allow the
cooling system pressure to rise to a several ( 10 to 15, usually) psi above
1 atmosphere, so the coolant does not boil at temperatures below about 260F
(the exact temperature varies with each engine, and with the percentage of
antifreeze).
When your engine is hot, squeeze the radiator hoses in your car - they will
be hard. That is because the cooling system is pressurized when hot.
If the coolant temperature goes higher than this 260F or so, the pressure in
the system exceeds the pressure cap release value, and the pressure cap will
vent. This is called "overheating", and you lose coolant ( as liquid and/or
vapor) through the cap.
There are several good explanations on the web about how ICE cooling systems
work. Look up one or two - that may explain it further.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I happened to see the >annual< re-torque spec for the terminal
to a >lower< torque than the initial install torque.
May be interesting, following the recent trail about this issue.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 11:52 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; Zappylist
Subject: Dynasty VLRA Stecifications.
http://www.cdstandbypower.com/products/market/batteries/other_apps/deep_cycl
e.htm
These batteries seem to be a good possibility for EV use.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
I've not commented before on posts from John De Armond in the past,
rather, I've simply read his stuff and for the most part have found his
writings interesting, to say the least. I get a bit frustrated when he
gets attacked for the things he writes, because he's often correct in
his opinions. Yeah, he can get pretty controversial, and yes, he often
pushes buttons and may even sometimes offend, but in general, I enjoy
having his spirited contributions here on the EVDL. It is with this
backdrop that I am now replying to John's comments below. He did not
offend me at all, but he 'did' make me think because of what he
wrote....this is why it's good to have dissenting opinions.
Neon John wrote:
IMHO, EVs should stick to areas where they can look good.
I agree, and this is why we are out on the drag strip with White Zombie.
EVs can and do look very good on the drag strip. No one, and I mean 'no
one' who watches this little conversion run on its non-tubbed stock body
with its street tires toast V8 muscle car after muscle car, or, watch it
blow off a 405 hp Vette, or watch it suck the doors off a mid 12 second
ricer with $40,000 in mods, or even watch it be competitive in bracket
racing against trailered-in 9-10 second machines, thinks of it in
anything but a positive light.
Drag racing is good, as long as one doesn't fool himself into thinking he can
beat
the best of class gas vehicles.
This comment really had me going for a while. My answer....I'm not
fooled into thinking I can beat the 'best of class gas vehicles'.....I
know I can! I guess that's about as in your face to John, as I can get,
right? If I've got him pegged correctly, I doubt this comment phases him
and he's probably not offended in the least.
White Zombie has oh, 3-4 seconds to
go before it can beat the best of the streetable gas cars.
OK, this was the line that had me going, but I assessed it over and over
and now am answering what he wrote. He's right, and he's wrong, with
the emphasis on the wrong part :-) If one considers the cars that can
actually make a real mid 8 to 9 second pass and still be driven to the
strip as being in the same class as my little car, then he's
correct....allow me to clarify. I know of one, just one car that runs at
PIR that indeed, is driven to the track...rarely, but it 'has' happened.
The car in question fits John's description of being 3 seconds away from
my car...not 4, but definitely 3. How-ev-er.....when you take a look at
this 'thing', you'll soon see that it really doesn't fit his other
description 'best of class gas vehicles', meaning that it's the best of
vehicles in the same class as mine. I'm talking about an insanely
powerful, twin turbo, heavily modified late model Camaro that races with
me at PIR. It runs 8.7 seconds @ 168 mph! I've talked with the
owner/driver....he's got more than $100K in this car! It has a fully
tubbed and gutted body... the tubs are probably 2.5 feet wide and the
tires under them wrinkle wall slicks. It's 505 CID big block V8 has been
dynoed at 1184 rear wheel hp! It's got humongous turbo intake impeller
housings poking up and out big square-ish holes in the hood....it's got
nitrous, it's got a parachute, it's got wheelie bars....well, I could go
on....but, he does sometime show up with it having driven it to the
track, license plates, tags, and BIG street tires. oh....did I say that
with street tires, it only gets into the high 9's? Now, it's a pinch
more than 2 seconds away from my little 'ol Datsun, and that's about 50%
away from John's 4 seconds! I don't know about the rest of you, but this
'thing' is anything but in the same class as my car.
I understand what John was trying to pint out, that my electric Datsun
is 3-4 seconds slower than the fastest of extremely built muscle cars
that can are driven on the street. What he left out, was to what
extremes these cars have to be taken to, to have this capability. They
are in no way, in the same class as are the cars I do race against and
that for now, I'm beating with regularity.
The last night we raced, there were two cars that ran in the high
8s...the crazy Camaro I just described (he trailered it in with the
wrinkle walls already mounted) and a funny car looking fiberglass
tilt-down body affair, so much a charicature of the real car it was
based on, that I cannot tell you what kind of car it was supposed to be.
Both cars ran 8.7 something. The 1200 hp Camaro barely beat the funny
car creation, a tribute considering the Camaro can be driven on the
street while the other 'thing' could never be. Funny.....these two
quickest of the night machines, had maybe an occasional handful of fans
around them.
On the other hand, there were times I had a hard time getting close to
my own car because of all the folks around it most of the time. of the
remaining street cars that were driven to the track and passed the
after-10 pm noise limit curfew that weeds out the extreme cars, White
Zombie was I think, the second quickest car remaining in a field of
perhaps 80 cars.
The truth is, the electric street car can be and in my case, is right
there with the 'best of class gas vehicles'. The class of vehicles my
car is part of, are cars that have anywhere from $10,000 - $40,000
dumped into them, that have slicks and have gutted bodies and tubbed
sections, and that are driven to the track. I can honestly say, that
White Zombie is quicker than the majority of the cars it competes with.
Yes, there are always classic muscle cars that show up that still have
their interiors that run mid elevens, and there are 11 second full race
Hondas, too, but hey, they're within striking range! And even if John is
not impressed with my car's performance, these guys are! In fact, so is
the guy with the 1200 hp Camaro! So are the track officials, and most
importantly, so are the race fans.
Take this a bit further....give me the same $100k budget as the Camaro
guy, and I'll build that street legal (term stretched to fit John's idea
of one) EV that can run a mid 8 second time. High power, low weight
lithium pack, Siamese 13, tubbed and stuffed with 2 foot wide wrinkle
walls, parachute, wheelie bars....yeah, I think I could do it! Would it
be tough to pull off? Yes, but, the gas car hotrodders have a huge
infrastructure in place and at least a 70 year head start on us Ampheads.
In closing....John's right about picking the right battles with what
you've got to work with. He's also right on a lot of other things, too.
I value his input to this list, and hope he continues to make the rest
of us think about what we say.
I'd love to sit down with him over a plate of ribs sometime!
See Ya...John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Very well said. One technical question; Can you get more power density
out of a new lithium pack then the TMF cells?
Disregarding cost, reliability, complexity of manufacturing, etc...
Which one do you think will deliver the most horsepower for 1 8-9
second run with the least weight?
Shawn Lawless
-----Original Message-----
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:24:07 -0700
Subject: 3-4 Seconds Behind 'best of class gas cars'?
Hello to All,
I've not commented before on posts from John De Armond in the past,
rather, I've simply read his stuff and for the most part have found his
writings interesting, to say the least. I get a bit frustrated when he
gets attacked for the things he writes, because he's often correct in
his opinions. Yeah, he can get pretty controversial, and yes, he often
pushes buttons and may even sometimes offend, but in general, I enjoy
having his spirited contributions here on the EVDL. It is with this
backdrop that I am now replying to John's comments below. He did not
offend me at all, but he 'did' make me think because of what he
wrote....this is why it's good to have dissenting opinions.
Neon John wrote:
IMHO, EVs should stick to areas where they can look good.
I agree, and this is why we are out on the drag strip with White
Zombie. EVs can and do look very good on the drag strip. No one, and I
mean 'no one' who watches this little conversion run on its non-tubbed
stock body with its street tires toast V8 muscle car after muscle car,
or, watch it blow off a 405 hp Vette, or watch it suck the doors off a
mid 12 second ricer with $40,000 in mods, or even watch it be
competitive in bracket racing against trailered-in 9-10 second
machines, thinks of it in anything but a positive light.
Drag racing is good, as long as one doesn't fool himself into thinking
he can beat
the best of class gas vehicles. >
This comment really had me going for a while. My answer....I'm not
fooled into thinking I can beat the 'best of class gas vehicles'.....I
know I can! I guess that's about as in your face to John, as I can get,
right? If I've got him pegged correctly, I doubt this comment phases
him and he's probably not offended in the least.
White Zombie has oh, 3-4 seconds to
go before it can beat the best of the streetable gas cars.
>
OK, this was the line that had me going, but I assessed it over and
over and now am answering what he wrote. He's right, and he's wrong,
with the emphasis on the wrong part :-) If one considers the cars that
can actually make a real mid 8 to 9 second pass and still be driven to
the strip as being in the same class as my little car, then he's
correct....allow me to clarify. I know of one, just one car that runs
at PIR that indeed, is driven to the track...rarely, but it 'has'
happened. The car in question fits John's description of being 3
seconds away from my car...not 4, but definitely 3. How-ev-er.....when
you take a look at this 'thing', you'll soon see that it really doesn't
fit his other description 'best of class gas vehicles', meaning that
it's the best of vehicles in the same class as mine. I'm talking about
an insanely powerful, twin turbo, heavily modified late model Camaro
that races with me at PIR. It runs 8.7 seconds @ 168 mph! I've talked
with the owner/driver....he's got more than $100K in this car! It has a
fully tubbed and gutted body... the tubs are probably 2.5 feet wide and
the tires under them wrinkle wall slicks. It's 505 CID big block V8 has
been dynoed at 1184 rear wheel hp! It's got humongous turbo intake
impeller housings poking up and out big square-ish holes in the
hood....it's got nitrous, it's got a parachute, it's got wheelie
bars....well, I could go on....but, he does sometime show up with it
having driven it to the track, license plates, tags, and BIG street
tires. oh....did I say that with street tires, it only gets into the
high 9's? Now, it's a pinch more than 2 seconds away from my little 'ol
Datsun, and that's about 50% away from John's 4 seconds! I don't know
about the rest of you, but this 'thing' is anything but in the same
class as my car.
I understand what John was trying to pint out, that my electric Datsun
is 3-4 seconds slower than the fastest of extremely built muscle cars
that can are driven on the street. What he left out, was to what
extremes these cars have to be taken to, to have this capability. They
are in no way, in the same class as are the cars I do race against and
that for now, I'm beating with regularity.
The last night we raced, there were two cars that ran in the high
8s...the crazy Camaro I just described (he trailered it in with the
wrinkle walls already mounted) and a funny car looking fiberglass
tilt-down body affair, so much a charicature of the real car it was
based on, that I cannot tell you what kind of car it was supposed to
be. Both cars ran 8.7 something. The 1200 hp Camaro barely beat the
funny car creation, a tribute considering the Camaro can be driven on
the street while the other 'thing' could never be. Funny.....these two
quickest of the night machines, had maybe an occasional handful of fans
around them.
On the other hand, there were times I had a hard time getting close to
my own car because of all the folks around it most of the time. of the
remaining street cars that were driven to the track and passed the
after-10 pm noise limit curfew that weeds out the extreme cars, White
Zombie was I think, the second quickest car remaining in a field of
perhaps 80 cars.
The truth is, the electric street car can be and in my case, is right
there with the 'best of class gas vehicles'. The class of vehicles my
car is part of, are cars that have anywhere from $10,000 - $40,000
dumped into them, that have slicks and have gutted bodies and tubbed
sections, and that are driven to the track. I can honestly say, that
White Zombie is quicker than the majority of the cars it competes with.
Yes, there are always classic muscle cars that show up that still have
their interiors that run mid elevens, and there are 11 second full race
Hondas, too, but hey, they're within striking range! And even if John
is not impressed with my car's performance, these guys are! In fact, so
is the guy with the 1200 hp Camaro! So are the track officials, and
most importantly, so are the race fans.
Take this a bit further....give me the same $100k budget as the Camaro
guy, and I'll build that street legal (term stretched to fit John's
idea of one) EV that can run a mid 8 second time. High power, low
weight lithium pack, Siamese 13, tubbed and stuffed with 2 foot wide
wrinkle walls, parachute, wheelie bars....yeah, I think I could do it!
Would it be tough to pull off? Yes, but, the gas car hotrodders have a
huge infrastructure in place and at least a 70 year head start on us
Ampheads.
In closing....John's right about picking the right battles with what
you've got to work with. He's also right on a lot of other things, too.
I value his input to this list, and hope he continues to make the rest
of us think about what we say.
I'd love to sit down with him over a plate of ribs sometime!
See Ya...John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Darin,
I wish we could hold the 120 volts @ 300 amps but given the expected
sag we should only see about 80 volts @ 300 amps each. This is how we
have it set up. The dyno torque numbers for the new motors look pretty
good, 44 ft-lbs at 80 volts and 300 amps each. If we can get them all
working together, 530 ft-lbs should get us off the line ok. At 300
amps they should be MUCH more efficient than the poor Eteks we were
pounding with 900 amps in June. Those things were HOT after one run.
In the Etek's defense, they never failed once all summer. Granted the
brush leads are a deep shade of purple but they still run good as new.
My box full of melted Lemco brush holders tells me we can't do that
with these motors. 500 amps is about all they can stand. I've got the
start of a new liquid cooled brush gear in an autocad file but it has a
long way to go. So we will see what we can get at 300 amps. If it's
not enough we will raise the pack voltage to 336 and wire for 75
volts(effective) @ 450 amps. Will 800 ft-lbs be enough to spin all 4
tires?
I'll loan you 2 Eteks if you promise to mount them in your bike (
Creating a 4 motor monster ) and bring it to Florida in January
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: BadFishRacing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:10:27 +0000
Subject: Re: OJ2 to run at Mason Dixon on Nov. 5th
Shawn,
Humm. 1.8K Zilla into 12 Lemcos. Either 80V across each motor,
450amps/motor.
Or 120V per motor @ 300 amps. Probably the first would put those
Lemcos right
in the sweet spot making great efficiency. Guess efficiency is
something we
lose when pushing motor way way past their ratings.
Darin Gilbert
BadFishRacing
-------------- Original message from [EMAIL PROTECTED]: --------------
We just brought the OJ2 dragster back from the East Coast Electric
Expo
in Philly where it was a huge hit. Chris, thanks for the kind words.
It was a pleasure to meet you and talk shop. I'm not exagerating when
I
say that HUNDREDS of people were shocked to find out an electric
dragster could run under 11 secs at 120 mph in the 1/4 mile. I sent
all of them to the NEDRA site for more info. Now that OJ2 is done
showing for the year it is imperative that we get in some runs with
the
new Lemcos before the January race in Florida. Quaker City is closed
for the season but if the weather allows we will be traveling to and
racing at Mason Dixon Dragway on Nov 5th. It's a pretty good haul
down
there but will give us a chance to redeem our sub-par showing at
Power
of DC earlier in the year. Don't worry Rich, we are going to run with
only one 1.8K Zilla this trip. If any of you are nearby, make plans
to
come out. Who knows what will happen?
Shawn Lawless
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <
Yes, the Non Buck PFCs will run on DC.
Hi Joe , I have a plane pfc 50 that I'm planning on using for my lawn mower
project and want to charge the mower form my truck , now 150v, soon 240v .
the mower will be 72v orbitals maybe 2 strings.
>
Yes, the breakers are rated only for AC.
I'm not worred about the braker , I'll trun it off another way , but as the
mower will be pluged and un plugged many times a day I'd like to set up
something so that if it came unplugged while charging it wouldn't blow the
charger , could I put a light load ( like a light bulb) accross the output
of the charger. I was also thinking of a contactor on the input side of the
charger that would be powered buy the 72 v mower pack . Plug mower in and
the mower batteries would power contactor , if mower came unplugged the
charger would keep contactor on and be enough of a load on charger to keep
it form blowing , it would go into end of charge timing and when done ,
output current would go to 0 and contactor would open , charger then
disconected.Maybe a small plug hooked to the big anderson plug to power
contactor from mower pack , . to could keep the charger form powering the
contactor , and let only the mower pack current get to the contactor . Would
the contactor open fast enough to save the charger when mower is unplugged?
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 3:13 AM
Subject: RE: Perpetual Motion for one year!
> Yeah and my Prius is also not using any fuel any more
> after installing this miraculous battery. After 2 years
> of driving I had 3 oil changes and 2 fuel changes because
> the fuel keeps getting stale in there.
>
> In fact - the other day I was refueling the neighbor's car
> with my Prius, it is amazing what the addition of this new
> battery technology can do to your social life.
> I think my hair has started to grow back as well.
>
> <sigh>
> Some people believe everything.
>
> Just tell me how many amphours he can store in how much weight
> and have an independent test lab verify it.
> I am sorry to sound 'sceptical' but I hear another "car that
> runs a month on a gallon of water."
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Noel P. Luneau
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 5:59 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Perpetual Motion for one year!
>
>
> Taiwan Headlines
>
> Breakthrough in power storage allows a year's driving without recharging
>
> -- October 28, 2005 --
>
> Electric cars are great energy-savers, and good for the environment,
> too. But it's troublesome to have to charge their batteries all the
> time. For this reason, Su Jinzhu, a resident of Taiping City in Taichung
> County, has invented a "Reserve Power Transformer and Transmitter
HI all;
AHA! THAT'S what happened to the Electric Car I built/sold to a very
nice Chinese guy! This was about 38 years ago, though, when I was trying to
strt up an EV company on that beautiful island.Flush with success with a EV,
looked like Henry Ford's Quadrocycle of 1890 something, tiller steared
starter motor powered, ran on one 4 d battery, built it as a gag, but found
out it was an ideal" Town Car" in Tay Ninh City in Viet Nam. Being a
hopeless dreamerI fuigured that I could be Thomas Edisonand Henry Ford
combined, start up a local industry in that areas. Having friends in Taiwan
from my Army daze, all I had to do was arrive on their shores with a few
Westinghouse Golf cart motors, built into my " Twin Motor Transaxle" built
as cab over flatbedtruck, and customers would be knocking at my door.
Most local transportation was by pedicab, bus and motorcycle, traffic
conjested , oxcarts and pull carts, guys pulling cargo on wheeled things.
Figured, rightly, that NEV's were reafdy to upgrade transportation. Forget
it NOW! Taiwan has the best traffic jams on the planet as they have freeways
too. EVerybody THERE wants a Lincoln or "Cadrac"
To make a long story short; The local auto company didn't want
competition, my principle guy , Chinese,got drafted in to the Army. My
Chinese language skills? Forgetabout it, if you expect to do biz ANYWHERE ya
haft to be able to speak the local lingo!AND ya need big bux to smooth
things along. Becides the Taiwan DMV had a BIG problem with Traction motors
as they don't have any "stinkin' Pistons" to measure HP!!! They didn't know
what to DO with a EV, not to mention that I didn't have a factory. My
downstairs "Shop" at my house didn't hack it!No engine I got away with
driving it , by innoring it officially, they figured it would EVentually go
away? They were right, I ran out of money. Game Over! But we had some
interesting vignettes driving EV in Tauichung. Cabbies would Poo Poo the
motors power, so I would go head to head with the Datsun Bluebird 1000cc
sedans that they used as cabs there. Bumpers even matched. 'GO! and the
electric would push the Datsun back with ease. Gotta love the instant
torque!1000ccs would barely spin the wheels anyhow under ANY conditions,
Nobody there was into smoky launches, they babied their cars there,EVen
driving at night with headlights off save wear and tear on the battery!!
I was out somewhere in Taichung when a Mr Chen, handed me his biz card
and said in plain English"Call me if you want to sell this car" I gave him a
ride, EV Grins are International!Later when I threw in the towel, called
him, he offered 700 US in Cash, I took it, flew home on a jet and while
passing through Detroit, in a drive-away car, took Bob Aronson's offer of a
job, after he took me for a lunch date in the Mars Two, as we ran along at
hiway speeds, after years of NEV performance. I really thought he was onto
something. But gas at 23 cents a gal, nobody cared! Two bux worth would get
you all over town, smoky launches and all.Bob , like Bob Beaumont were ahead
of there time.
OK Enough anchient History for now. I hope the guy can do SOMETHING in
Taiwan, or he is a branch of Tilley Foundation? Taiwan, or Mainland China
might DO something for, or with EV's. The Govt in China may say to the local
Car Co. " DO something" and they would support better batteries. After all,
WHERE are the New Batteries coming from? China! Duh! We all know that, or
South Korea, another strong runner in the EV sweepstakes.Russia? Whynot,
they have alota engineers , NOT building MIGS and space stuff. Seems likea
EV carbody and AC drive would be child's play to them.Victor? Anything
happening in the Old Country?? An Electric Lada or Zil in our future?China ,
maybe an electric Red Flag? Gotta love the whimsicle names the Chinese come
up with with for cars and other products!Sorta had hi hopes for the Hi Bao"
Black Leopard" if my Chinese serves me right?Cute little car, nicely put
together. I did drive it a little at T de S, YEARS ago. The Korean "Parade"
minivan. from Korea? Sigh! Gone! DAMMIT!Why do ya think I'm hot on the
Freedom EV and the transplanted Sunrise. Jerry Dycus has stepped up to the
plate ,here. A sortas David and Goliath thing. After all when Henry Ford was
doing his thing the mighty Pennsylvania Railroad was one of the biggest
corps in the WORLD.Baldwin built more steam lokies than anybody else. Fallen
Flags, You have new generations that have never heard of these American
Icons of transportation,' cept in hobby shop windows.
This could happen to our Auto industry, beyond a sea of Hondas here,
Hyan dri's and Toyotas already here. I may EVen live long enough to see a
lot of EV's out there??OK preaching to the Choir here.
Had to comment on the Taiwan Thing.
My two Kilos worth!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Come on John, no Plasmaboy meets Vulcan comment in this paragraph? You are
not usually one to leave out details...
....allow me to clarify. I know of one, just one
car that runs at PIR that indeed, is driven to the track...rarely, but it
'has' happened. The car in question fits John's description of being 3
seconds away from my car...not 4, but definitely 3. How-ev-er.....when you
take a look at this 'thing', you'll soon see that it really doesn't fit his
other description 'best of class gas vehicles', meaning that it's the best
of vehicles in the same class as mine. I'm talking about an insanely
powerful, twin turbo, heavily modified late model Camaro that races with me
at PIR. It runs 8.7 seconds @ 168 mph! I've talked with the
owner/driver....he's got more than $100K in this car! It has a fully tubbed
and gutted body... the tubs are probably 2.5 feet wide and the tires under
them wrinkle wall slicks. It's 505 CID big block V8 has been dynoed at 1184
rear wheel hp! It's got humongous turbo intake impeller housings poking up
and out big square-ish holes in the hood....it's got nitrous, it's got a
parachute, it's got wheelie bars....well, I could go on....but, he does
sometime show up with it having driven it to the track, license plates,
tags, and BIG street tires. oh....did I say that with street tires, it only
gets into the high 9's? Now, it's a pinch more than 2 seconds away from my
little 'ol Datsun, and that's about 50% away from John's 4 seconds! I don't
know about the rest of you, but this 'thing' is anything but in the same
class as my car.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 12:24 AM
Subject: 3-4 Seconds Behind 'best of class gas cars'?
> Hello to All,
>
> I've not commented before on posts from John De Armond in the past,
> rather, I've simply read his stuff and for the most part have found his
> writings interesting, to say the least. I get a bit frustrated when he
> gets attacked for the things he writes, because he's often correct in
> his opinions.
and he is often wrong....
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe,
I never asked where a good price break would be, but I would have to think it
would be at least 1000. I would need 90, you need 60, that is only 150...
need a couple more people....
a 120 v system is 20 bats or 60 fillers, so 1000/60 = at least 16 people with
120v systems...
that's a lot of commitments from this group...
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: Water filling systems.
>I would love to have them, also; I have 60 cells (Trojans), so it is also
> for me more than I can afford right now. What would the price be in
> quantity?
>
> Joseph H. Strubhar
>
> E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Web: www.gremcoinc.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 2:03 PM
> Subject: Water filling systems.
>
>
>> On another thread there was a question about filling systems.
>>
>> Here are some links:
>> http://www.aquapro.net/
>> http://www.batteryfillingsystems.com/default.asp
>>
>> I looked into getting a system and it seems that the cost was from about
> $6 to $9 per cell, so for a trojan that would be $18 to $24. I have a 30
> battery system so it would have cost $540 to $720. more than I wanted to
> spend.
>>
>> They are both pretty similar systems.
>>
>> I talked with both companies and they would give a quantity order a
> discount. Anybody want to order some?
>>
>> Rush
>> Tucson AZ
>> www.ironandwood.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the nar elect code gives wire size standarts . check table 310-12 or n310-13
for the code / use that should also be on the wire (ie thhhn/thwn #6awg
reads no six wire gauge with temp and weather res. insulation ) also is this
wire solid or stranded ? could not tell from your pic. also the table i gave
you is from a older code book my new one is at work where i use it . so if you
lood in a newer code book look in the index under conductor then go down to
insulation and find the new table # . it may well have changed around 2000
when they reworked the layout of the entire code book ,
-------------- Original message --------------
> Folks,
>
> I just bought some automotive power wire from an eBay seller, and was
> delivered a product which is not what was advertised in the auction, or on
> the product box itself. What hurts most is that I'm at fault to a
> significant extent, in that the product had a price low enough to be
> marginally unrealistic. But my stupidity as a consumer should not be a
> justification for deception from the seller and manufacturer.
>
> The jacket is a reasonable diameter for a 4 gauge wire, but when looked at
> in cross section, immediately noticeable is that the copper conductor is
> smaller in diameter than that of a 6 gauge cable. I figure the actual
> conductor is somewhere between a 6 and 8 gauge in size. Nowhere near the
> 4 gauge that is claimed on the box. Surrounding this is an absurd
> thickness of insulation for a 12V product, which gives the impression of a
> willful attempt to deceive consumers.
>
> I have a picture of the product next to a 6ga wire from Waytek, which I
> think captures the situation pretty clearly:
>
> http://ohmbre.org/temp_upload/wire_fraud.jpg
>
>
> Is wire gauge a sufficiently recognized standard that this could be
> considered false advertising in a legal sense?
>
> --chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please unsubscribe me now. I cannot participate in the forum any
longer due to family emergencies. Thank you.
Dial Broadband has arrived Nationwide! Up to 5 times faster than traditional
dialup connections from $13.33/month! See the demo for yourself at <a
href="http://www.BigValley.net";>www.BigValley.net</a>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A "flywheel" is used to connect to the starter. The
power generated by the generator is partially diverted to the drive of
the vehicle and partly recycled to charge the battery cells. Within the
service life of the storage battery, the vehicle may be continuously
driven; it does not require a fresh charge every 100 kilometers or so,
as is the case with current electric vehicles.
I had a " gen on the wheel " come buy the other day , I had no clue till
after the EV tour. \
He came buy and I drove him around in a few of my ev's we talked for a while
, and then he pulled out a "gun" out and shot me , but I've been shot like
that
many times and now whare a vest. of course he had me sighn a NDA before
pulling the gun , and I kind of knew it was coming when I heard the words
"charge itself" . I took the bullet and let out a gasp , as I was standing
outside myself I heard my body speak " what a remarkable idea" . Past
experience has taught me not to say "it won't work..." and to tell the truth
I have never put a generator on the wheel of an ev so I can't say I really
know . Adjusting my vest I asked " do you think it will make more energy
that it will use?" He was sure of it ! all the power in the wheels you
couldn't stop em if you tried....... so we talked and as we did I got to
thinking how easy it would be to put a motor on the back rear end . Some
mounts off the axel tubes and the motor sitting right over the rear pumpkin
. a gear sandwiched between the drive shaft and the rear input shaft. Chain
running ( or belt ) up to the motor . I have one of my early ev pickup that
came back with a dead pack ( guy got 4 years on the pack , but his life has
changed so he had to give it up ) . This is a very light pick up a
Mitsubishi , 3200 with 20 gulfs . I have been thinking of putting my 2k
zilla in it for the Florida drag races with 25 orbitals. This gen on a wheel
got me thinking about doing it with 2 motors ,.the one in the front which
goes through the tranny and one in the back . My Porsche 924 dose not have a
working clutch and I know that would hurt my 1/4 and with its stock clutch
which I'm sure would slip if I left it in 3ed (clutch is in there just won't
release ) So the pick up with the working clutch and 9" seems a better
pick. I could do the whole thing for me , and when done set up one of
motors as a generator , do some test and video them then set things back and
go to the drag races . Of course if it didn't charge it self I'm sure it
would be because of something I did wrong because no true " gen on a wheel
" would give up just because I didn't get it right .. I did add a few ideas
to his like " we could jack up the drive wheel and let the truck power the
house " . My last question was if it didn't work but you could drive it 30
miles on a dollar worth of electric would this be good enough . He of course
new it would work .
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, I'm a lurker and don't post very often but this comment is of the
exact type that John is often accused of making. Let's see if it gets
the harsh comments that John's posts do. Somehow I bet not. :( Maybe
it's why I don't often have too much to say on here even though I'd like
to.
August Johnson
1988 Sprint EV 144V Brusa AC drive
www.ubvri.net
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rush
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Hello to All,
>
> I've not commented before on posts from John De Armond in the past,
> rather, I've simply read his stuff and for the most part have found
his
> writings interesting, to say the least. I get a bit frustrated when he
> gets attacked for the things he writes, because he's often correct in
> his opinions.
and he is often wrong....
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Ken that reminds me. What ever happened to the company working on EV
efficiency? I remember you thought they would have a product soon? Have
they disappointed or are they still working on the product? Lawrence
Rhodes..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: Perpetual Motion for one year!
Is it April 1st already?
It's gratifying to see that SOMEONE has finally added a generator to an EV
so that we can both charge and drive at the same time. I didn't even know
that an EV needed a starter.
Good thing this guy didn't let an education get in the way of his
discovery. 8^)
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If this is true Rich Rudman, and EVery other Ev seller of batteries and
battery chargers will be out of the EV business. I EVen think they would
probably be happy about it. However I'll probably be ordering a PFC charger
of some sort in the next year. LR....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A "flywheel" is used to connect to the starter. The
power generated by the generator is partially diverted to the drive of
the vehicle and partly recycled to charge the battery cells. Within the
service life of the storage battery, the vehicle may be continuously
driven; it does not require a fresh charge every 100 kilometers or so,
as is the case with current electric vehicles.
I had a " gen on the wheel " come buy the other day , I had no clue till
after the tour. \
He came buy and I drove him around in a few of my ev's we talked for a while
, and then he pulled a gun out and shot me , but I've been shot like that
many times and now ware a vest. of course he had me sighn a NDA before
pulling the gun , and I kind of knew it was coming when I heard the words
"charge itself" . I took the bullet and let out a gasp , as I was standing
outside myself I heard my body speak " what a remarkable idea" . Past
experience has taught me not to say "it won't work..." and to tell the truth
I have never put a generator on the wheel of an ev so I can't say I really
know . Adjusting my vest I asked " do you think it will make more energy
that it will use?" He was sure of it ! all the power in the wheels you
couldn't stop em if you tried....... so we talked and as we did I got to
thinking how easy it would be to put a motor on the back rear end . Some
mounts off the axel tubes and the motor sitting right over the rear pumpkin
. a gear sandwiched between the drive shaft and the rear input shaft. Chain
running ( or belt ) up to the motor . I have one of my early ev pickup that
came back with a dead pack ( guy got 4 years on the pack , but his life has
changed so he had to give it up ) . This is a very light pick up a
Mitsubishi , 3200 with 20 gulfs . I have been thinking of putting my 2k
zilla in it for the Florida drag races with 25 orbitals. This gen on a wheel
got me thinking about doing it with 2 motors ,.the one in the front which
goes through the tranny and one in the back . My Porsche 924 dose not have a
working clutch and I know that would hurt my 1/4 and with its stock clutch
which I'm sure would slip if I left it in 3ed (clutch is in there just won't
release ) So the pick up with the working clutch and 9" seems a better
pick. I could do the whole thing for me , and when done set up one of
motors as a generator , do some test and video them then set things back and
go to the drag races . Of course if it didn't charge it self I'm sure it
would be because of something I did wrong because no true " gen on a wheel
" would give up just because I didn't get it right .. I did add a few ideas
to his like " we could jack up the drive wheel and let the truck power the
house " . My last question was if it didn't work but you could drive it 30
miles on a dollar worth of electric would this be good enough . He of course
new it would work .
Steve Clunn ,
--- End Message ---
