EV Digest 4933
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Alltrax 7245 controller - man what a reversing experience!
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Toshiba's New Lithium-Ion Battery Recharges in Only One Minute
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Charger options
by Bill & Nancy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: NiHM :: The Battery's Toll on Detroit's Future!
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Charger options
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Toshiba's New Lithium-Ion Battery Recharges in Only One Minute
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Alltrax 7245 controller - man what a reversing experience!
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Lithium nanothingies (was Toshiba's New Lithium...)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Alltrax 7245 controller - man what a reversing experience!
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Alltrax 7245 controller - man what a reversing experience!
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Ground to Transmission
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Charger options
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Charger options
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: NiHM :: The Battery's Toll on Detroit's Future!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Lithium nanothingies (was Toshiba's New Lithium...)
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Drilling/tapping hard steel shaft
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Drilling/tapping hard steel shaft
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Charger options - FSM
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Drilling/tapping hard steel shaft
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) TEVA2 has a website
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Charger options
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Drilling/tapping hard steel shaft
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: TEVA2 has a website
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: TEVA2 has a website
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Drilling/tapping hard steel shaft
by "Nick 'Sharkey' Moore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Cold storage of Batteries
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: NiHM :: The Battery's Toll on Detroit's Future!
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Hybrid basher? not me.
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Today installed my full battery pack of 72 volts. I am using the AXE 7245
controller wired up to a curtis potbox. I tried the controller before on 24
votls but now I finally had all the cables and drilled holes through the
firewall to access the other battery pack.
So I reversed very carefully out of the garage. And woompppff!!! I huge
surge to the back, I thought the transmission broke or something. I never
felt such a surge of torque before. On my second try reversing, the back
wheels were wheel spinning leaving tyre marks on the floor.
The throttle seems too sensitive. I need to re-programe the controller so
that the throttle response is linear. I think its on log.
Did any other alltrax owners experience some grease on or around their rs232
port. Mine has heaps of it.
And has any other alltrax owners tried reversing with their reverse gear in
log response of the throttle.
But other than that, the car went really well. Plenty of poke. I left it in
4th gear for normal driving.
Cheers - Go Alltrax!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Calculate it. At the rates they are talking about for EV use
it will mean stopping at every bus stop and charge for 30 sec
to run another few hundred yards just to stop again. Not really
practical.
For power tools "range" is is not an issue indeed. A tool doesn't have
to work few hours if recharging takes 5 min.
Victor
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
From: "Bob Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The purpose of stating the inventions capability is not necessarily to
assume it will be used that way- but that it CAN be.
That means to me you could use less batteries and charge more. Since
charging is fast no penalty for a short range. It's not the range that
is a problem it's the charging time. LR......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
What options do I have to better control my charging using a variac
charger? I have one set up with a bridge diode and an ammeter.
Thanks,
Bill
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
couldn't you just run the variac backwards and eliminate the step up
transformer?
A 120v variac actually has a single 140v winding, with the two ends, fixed
taps 20v in from each end, plus the sliding tap controlled by the knob (5
wires altogether). You could connect 120vac between the lower end and the
tap
near the top end, to get 140vac across the ends. Rectifying 140vac
produces
196vdc max -- too low to fully charge anything over a 156v pack.
Apparently I wasn't clear enough.
What I was suggesting is applying the 120Vac between the lower tap and the
'sliding' tap, then taking the charge voltage off the lower and upper
taps.
This would allow you to adjust charge current by varying the position of
the sliding tap.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm .. sounds like a little conspiracy theory. Don't get me wrong, I am
convinced $big oil is doing what they can to protect their current
business model. But IMHO the article concentrates on NiMH as the holy
grail and I can't help but wonder if it doesn't over simplify the problem.
Advanced battery technology as a 'Strategic Risk' - because of submarines?
Germany just built and sold its first fuel cell powered sub that can go
about a year without surfacing .. no need for either oxygen or Ovonics.
And those super batteries in satellites? One would think that a
$evilnation that would be able to launch a sat into space would be able to
use any kind of battery they want - even if those technologies would be
subject to patents.
There are other technologies available, among those are Valence U-Charge,
that sound promising. And .. Saft is offering big NiMH's (i.e. 6V
200Ah/C3) right on their website:
<quote>
Energy applications for all electric vehicles, rail and mass-transit ..
</quote>
I share the frustration that all of those promising technologies are
_very_ expensive and I would love to see (or read) test reports from
somebody who actually used i.e. Valance systems in a conversion. I think
those 'new' battery manufacturers make a big mistake by not giving some of
their batteries to a few early adopters in order to jump start demand.
After all, I would (and currently have) a hard time shelling out big bucks
for a battery technology I almost know nothing about.
But I think it is way to easy to focus just on $big oil.
Well, the usual disclaimer. Just my two cents. And it is Mrs. Merz ;)
mm.
> From: Remy Chevalier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> NiMH :: The Battery's Toll on Detroit's Future!
> http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/hurryupandwait.html
> ET List exclusive...
> (with a little help from my friends...)
>
> Stanford Ovshinsky, founder of Ovonics, opened a can of worms when he let
> loose his Nickel Metal Hydride battery design on the world in the late
> 80's.
> Little did he know of the evil powers that would be brought down to bear
> on
> him over the next three decades as a result of that charming little stunt.
>
> Whether Stanford will be remembered as a good guy or a bad guy in this
> passion play, a story no less epic than saving our dear ol'planet, is
> still
> a matter for historians to chronicle, debate and decide. But one thing is
> for certain, Stanford's invention sowed the seeds of destruction. The
> battery suppression cabal has finally come to light and begun to unravel.
> You might call this article its "coup de grace."
>
> I certainly want to thank all those who were involved in putting it
> together. This campaign took months, and quite a bit of finesse, so as not
> to attract too much undue attention onto ourselves until we were ready to
> rock the boat and not fall in the shark infested waters. There is a lot
> more
> going on below the surface than we are at liberty to tell you right now
> for
> fear of jeopardizing our position. Just let me tell you it has not been
> easy, as this article has the potential to spark the largest, widest
> whistle
> blowing campaign the automobile industry has ever experienced.
>
> One thing is for certain, with this article the fat lady sings. It's the
> beginning of the end for the internal combustion engine, and for all the
> companies who still devise their livelyhood from it. No more cartels of
> evil
> oil men will ever be able to suppress technologies with the potential to
> save the planet again. Those days are over.
>
> Pirates and relics.
>
> Mark my words, with this article online, all the dominos fall... it
> contains
> all the keywords necessary to gain us the ability to set up
> state-of-the-art
> battery manufacturing all over the world, free and unimpeded by any
> further
> neferarious battery licensing constraints, limiting battery efficiency for
> the sole benefit of antiquated economic models. If you don't believe me,
> read on...
> http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/hurryupandwait.html
> and as George Clooney would say... Good Night and Good Luck!
>
> RemyC
> ET webed
> (We want our Sponge TV!)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Excellent summary Roger, thanks for posting it! 100% agreed.
I was going to respond in similar way, but couldn't of done
it better.
Victor
Roger Stockton wrote:
Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
He is not talking about the person being dumb - he is
referring to the CHARGER.
Don't worry, Rich knows it is his charger whose intelligence I am
critical of. There is no question of the intelligence its designers,
Rich and Joe, possess.
Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am gonna jump in here and defend rich. :-)
A little more than just a timer, Op amps for comparisons and
latches and triggers.
Yeah, yeah. ;^>
My point is that the *only* charge algorithm Rich's charger can do is a
basic IU with the U phase terminated by timeout only. This is about the
simplest charge algorithm possible, and, other than the timer that shuts
down the charger, it can be implemented equally well by any bench power
supply with voltage and current limit adjustments. Sure, if you
consider a voltage regulator (or current regulating circuit)
intelligent, then perhaps you would consider a bench power supply or
Rich's charger to be intelligent. I personally don't. Yes, both do
what they were designed to do, and neither requires a microprocessor to
do so, although either could use a micro to achieve the same result.
Joe Smalley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Charge controllers have a large span of evolutionary complexity.
But complexity is not the same as intelligence. I do not dispute that
the PFC chargers are a far more sophisticated, refined, and complex
device than a bad boy or basic ferroresonant charger, etc. However, I
would certainly argue that a ferroresonant charger with dv/dt
termination logic is indeed a more intelligent charger than the PFC
charger. (For those fixated on the presence/absence of a
microprocessor, notice that many ferroresonant chargers implement a
dv/dt termination logic without a micro at all; I am not saying that a
charger must have a micro to be intelligent, although it is probably
true that the most intelligent chargers tend to.)
What I refer to as intelligence is the ability to do things like detect
abnormal battery response and take corrective action (even if as simple
as halting the charge and indicating a fault), track Ah returned to the
battery and use this information to adjust the charge, implement
multiple phase charge profiles, or even just different profiles, or
temperature compensate the charge voltage, etc. Whether a charger
provides a constant current (ala PFC) or constant power (ala
ferroresonant) bulk phase does not distinguish one as more or less
intelligent to me, though a charger with the ability to do either at the
user's discretion certainly ranks as more intelligent than either. A
charger that terminates the charge based on a dv/dt criteria strikes me
as more intelligent than one that terminates solely based on a fixed
timer expiring, not because the dv/dt criteria is more difficult to
implement but because the dv/dt criteria means that the charger adapts
the charge based on the battery's behaviour while the fixed timer does
not.
If the "dumb as a rock" expression is what you and Rich find hard to
accept, then perhaps you are taking it too literally; it was merely
meant to express my opinion that relative to other commerically
available chargers the PFC series ranks near the bottom in terms of
charger intelligence. There is no doubt that it is at the top of the
list in terms of watts/buck, and in terms of output voltage flexibility.
I hope this clarifies any confusion about the meaning of my comment.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's in *your* shop Rich. Good for you.
Who else can take advantage of 480V 3 phase feed even if
Rich will send you a 150 kW charger for free?
(OEM customers with fat factory feeds aside aside)
Victor
Rich Rudman wrote:
And I am ,of course working on shortening the charging times....
I can do 30 Kw right now... 75Kw when they fianally get me 480 in my shop.
150kw is on the horizon....
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>; "Zappylist"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Toshiba's New Lithium-Ion Battery Recharges in Only One Minute
From: "Bob Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The purpose of stating the inventions capability is not necessarily to
assume it will be used that way- but that it CAN be.
That means to me you could use less batteries and charge more. Since
charging is fast no penalty for a short range. It's not the range that is
a
problem it's the charging time. LR......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a 1/2 backward speed function to active on AXE program interface.
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 10:33 PM
Subject: Alltrax 7245 controller - man what a reversing experience!
> Hi,
>
> Today installed my full battery pack of 72 volts. I am using the AXE 7245
> controller wired up to a curtis potbox. I tried the controller before on
24
> votls but now I finally had all the cables and drilled holes through the
> firewall to access the other battery pack.
>
> So I reversed very carefully out of the garage. And woompppff!!! I huge
> surge to the back, I thought the transmission broke or something. I never
> felt such a surge of torque before. On my second try reversing, the back
> wheels were wheel spinning leaving tyre marks on the floor.
>
> The throttle seems too sensitive. I need to re-programe the controller so
> that the throttle response is linear. I think its on log.
>
> Did any other alltrax owners experience some grease on or around their
rs232
> port. Mine has heaps of it.
>
> And has any other alltrax owners tried reversing with their reverse gear
in
> log response of the throttle.
>
> But other than that, the car went really well. Plenty of poke. I left it
in
> 4th gear for normal driving.
>
> Cheers - Go Alltrax!!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Possibly, but mot with today's feeds.
(not that there is really need for it, but this is different
issue). Compromising a little bit on such a power scale
helps enormously: if a person is willing to wait
10 min rather than 5 min (insignificant difference), a charger
can be, say, 200kW rather than 400 kW (very significant diff.).
A little math:
A [future] car with 150 miles range, 250 Wh mile.
Needs 150*0.25=37.5kWh pack. To transfer 37.5kW in
6 min (0.1 hr) will take then 375 kW of power.
At 480V industrial supply this means 375,000/480V=781 line amps.
That is assuming 100% eff, so make it rather 1000A, so you can
judge. It's about power consumed by 15-20 gas stations at once.
Very large factories with dedicated fat incoming feeds may have
it, but infrastructure has to be built if you want to have it
everywhere.
Again, if only a customer can wait 12 min in this case, all the
requirements are cut in half...
In my opinion, about 15 min is acceptable re-charge time for masses.
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
Don Cameron wrote:
What about a "gas station" that had 480V 400A 3-phase power, such as
available to small industrial areas. Would this be a possibility?
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fantastic news Robert!
How's the registration stuff going?
You reckon it will be ready for the AEVA meeting on the 6th of Dec?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Chew
Sent: Thursday, 24 November 2005 8:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Alltrax 7245 controller - man what a reversing experience!
Hi,
Today installed my full battery pack of 72 volts. I am using the AXE
7245
controller wired up to a curtis potbox. I tried the controller before on
24
votls but now I finally had all the cables and drilled holes through the
firewall to access the other battery pack.
So I reversed very carefully out of the garage. And woompppff!!! I huge
surge to the back, I thought the transmission broke or something. I
never
felt such a surge of torque before. On my second try reversing, the back
wheels were wheel spinning leaving tyre marks on the floor.
The throttle seems too sensitive. I need to re-programe the controller
so
that the throttle response is linear. I think its on log.
Did any other alltrax owners experience some grease on or around their
rs232
port. Mine has heaps of it.
And has any other alltrax owners tried reversing with their reverse gear
in
log response of the throttle.
But other than that, the car went really well. Plenty of poke. I left it
in
4th gear for normal driving.
Cheers - Go Alltrax!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robert Chew wrote:
But other than that, the car went really well. Plenty of poke. I left it
in 4th gear for normal driving.
Don't do this.
It may feel OK to drive it that way, but your motor is turning way too slow
and drawing too much current.
It will overheat quickly (dependant on ambient temp).
Most folks run around town in 2nd. Shifting to 3rd at highway speeds.
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes this is just for the starter motor on the gas engine.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 2:12 PM
Subject: Ground to Transmission
The negative terminal of the 12V battery in my conversion has two leads
coming off of it: one to the chassis and one to the transmission. As an
EV, the car has only one electrical device in the transmission, I think,
which is the backup-light. Can I get rid of the negative lead to the
transmission?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:59 PM 23/11/05 -0800, Bill wrote:
Hi,
What options do I have to better control my charging using a variac
charger? I have one set up with a bridge diode and an ammeter.
Hi Bill
Best way - change to a 'real' charger.
Best way to control the Variac, stick a small geared motor onto the front
of the variac, have two AC current switches to drive down when line amps
too high and up when too low, plus a DC voltage monitor to drive down once
reached (x) voltage [pack full]. And some other stuff, to float charge if
you want to do that, too, depending on how 'techy' you are.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 23 Nov 2005 at 13:59, Bill & Nancy wrote:
> What options do I have to better control my charging using a variac
> charger?
1. Hook up a voltmeter and ammerter, then hire someone to watch them and
adjust the variac as needed.
2. Remove the wall plug and attach it to a smarter charger.
I'm being somewhat flip, but the truth is that the ONLY virtue of a dumb
variac charger is that it's cheap. However, it's not impossible to add some
limited smarts to it.
The easiest form of charge control I can think of would be a simple voltage
regulator to keep the output steady as line voltage varies. This would give
you constant voltage charging - pretty slow in the bulk phase, and no
temperature compensation, so it will tend to overcharge when the battery is
hot and undercharge when it's cold, but it's an improvement over nothing at
all.
Another fairly straightforward charge control is what I think is called a
cycle dropping design. It watches the on-charge voltage and shuts off the
charger at some fixed voltage. When battery voltage drops to some lower
level, it turns on the charger again. There is usually a voltage hysteresis
so the cycles are lengthened to some number of seconds. As the battery
fills up, the on periods become shorter and the off periods become longer.
Again, there's no temperature compensation.
You should be able to find basic circuits for the above on the web, though
they'll probably be for low-rate chargers and you'll no doubt have to adapt
them for the (probably higher) output of your charger. Also, neither of the
above has any provision for temperature compensation.
Obviously, if you want charge control, you have to pay for it, either in
homebrewing time or in dollars, and then your charger isn't quite so cheap
any more. The question is whether it's worth the effort to add smarts to a
variac charger. The answer probably depends on your needs, budget, and
skill level with electronics design and construction.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 23 Nov 2005 at 16:00, Michaela Merz wrote:
> I would love to see (or read) test reports from
> somebody who actually used i.e. Valance systems in a conversion.
At least one of the owners on the Solectria_EV Yahoo group is using Valence
batteries in his Force. You might search the archives there for more info.
I'm not sure whether the archives are open to nonmembers. You might have to
join the group, which requires jumping through some mildly annoying hoops.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I travel, most of my refueling - potty - get something to eat stops
take about a half hour. Recharging could be done while inside. If I had a
car that used about 250 Wh/mi, a 200 mile span between stops would require a
50kW recharge + 10%? for charger inefficiencies. Therefore, I'd need 440v/
250Ah service to recharge in a half hour or I'd have to learn how to relax
and enjoy a fine repast at Le Gold'n Archez. So in an hour 240v at 250 amps
is nearer to possible maximum household service. A one hour break every 200
miles is not too appealling
If we used an overhead wire system, the overhead voltage could match a
common motor voltage and you'd only need an amp or 2 per mile. You could
even recharge the pack at a slightly higher amp rate. Would an overhead
system be more economical than an ICE/ethanol combo?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 17:07 PM
Subject: Re: Lithium nanothingies (was Toshiba's New Lithium...)
> Possibly, but mot with today's feeds.
>
> (not that there is really need for it, but this is different
> issue). Compromising a little bit on such a power scale
> helps enormously: if a person is willing to wait
> 10 min rather than 5 min (insignificant difference), a charger
> can be, say, 200kW rather than 400 kW (very significant diff.).
>
> A little math:
>
> A [future] car with 150 miles range, 250 Wh mile.
> Needs 150*0.25=37.5kWh pack. To transfer 37.5kW in
> 6 min (0.1 hr) will take then 375 kW of power.
>
> At 480V industrial supply this means 375,000/480V=781 line amps.
>
> That is assuming 100% eff, so make it rather 1000A, so you can
> judge. It's about power consumed by 15-20 gas stations at once.
>
> Very large factories with dedicated fat incoming feeds may have
> it, but infrastructure has to be built if you want to have it
> everywhere.
>
> Again, if only a customer can wait 12 min in this case, all the
> requirements are cut in half...
>
> In my opinion, about 15 min is acceptable re-charge time for masses.
>
> Victor
>
> --
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
>
>
> Don Cameron wrote:
> > What about a "gas station" that had 480V 400A 3-phase power, such as
> > available to small industrial areas. Would this be a possibility?
> >
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> > Victoria, BC, Canada
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVeryone!
First off, happy Thanksgiving tomorrow!
I'm installing a speed sensor, and need to drill out my motor tailshaft
for the 1/4" bolt that holds the magnetic unit on. I only had a few
minutes today, and thought I could get through it. But the drill bit
just didn't seem to dig in. What are the tricks for drilling hard steel
such as a motor shaft? Any additional tips for when I go to tap it?
Thanks,
Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan,
First, be wary of any drill bits from China...even the ones that are
"Titanium" coated. They just don't use as good of a steel as the reputable
domestic machine tool companies. Next, a sharp cutting tip with the right
angles is important. Third, use some coolant right at the cut. For your
size hole in harder(?)steel, don't go too high in RPM. Below 1000 probably.
And try beginning with a slightly smaller pilot hole if all else fails.
Now you have me curious as to how hard the motor shafts are. It shouldn't
be that bad. A sharp quality bit should do it. Call me at home if you
want.
Later, Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Bohm
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 7:43 PM
To: EV List
Subject: Drilling/tapping hard steel shaft
Hi EVeryone!
First off, happy Thanksgiving tomorrow!
I'm installing a speed sensor, and need to drill out my motor tailshaft
for the 1/4" bolt that holds the magnetic unit on. I only had a few
minutes today, and thought I could get through it. But the drill bit
just didn't seem to dig in. What are the tricks for drilling hard steel
such as a motor shaft? Any additional tips for when I go to tap it?
Thanks,
Ryan
--
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.7/180 - Release Date: 11/23/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please notice that I did not promote one idea over the other. I only
mentioned their existence.
When I mentioned the creator, it is obvious to me from the context that I
meant the charge controller creator. Maybe I need to be more specific to
avoid offending some readers.
If you think chargers get smarter without any intelligent intervention, you
haven't been paying any hourly programmers lately. It takes some serious and
intelligent effort to get an implementation working in a reasonable time
frame that is inexpensive, reliable and reproducible.
Regarding the Flying Spaghetti Monster charger; what sizes (watts) are
expected to be available and when? :-)
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 1:32 AM
Subject: RE: Charger options - FSM
> Uh oh - we're stepping into ID vs Evo territory.
>
> Time to bring out the Flying Spaghetti Monster charger, with the power
> conducted through its noodly appendage.
>
> Mark
> (sorry :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Joe Smalley
> Subject: Re: Charger options
>
> ...
> The question to be answered here is: Does the trim pot that controls the
> voltage, the front panel pot that controls the current and the timer
> switch
> constitute INTELLIGENT DESIGN (or maybe an EVOLUTIONARY improvement from
> the
> lower forms of charger controllers.) The controls provided by the
> CREATOR
> are there to adapt the charger to a new environment, however, the
> programmer/user must set the controls to keep the resident battery happy
> and
> healthy allowing it to live a long and productive life.
> ...
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just recently did the same thing for my zilla speed sensor. I set the motor
on its end, on the flywheel so that it was pretty stable, with the tailshaft
sticking up. I taped around the tailshaft so that shavings and cutting fluid
wouldn't enter the bearing area. I use plain old high speed drills, nothing
fancy, just good hard steel. I chucked the correct size up and slowly drilled
out the hole down to the depth I wanted, trying to keep the drill vertical. I
have a variable speed drill and just kept it slow enough with enough pressure
so that the shavings kept coming out, using liberal amounts of cutting oil to
cool things down. I didn't find the shaft too hard. I was just very very
careful to not over stress the drill bit.
Tapping it was easy also, I just did it slowly and backed it out often to get
all the shavings out. I sure did not want to break off the tap inside...
Keeping the drill bit cool is important, if it heats up it dulls very quickly.
If you don't have cutting oil, use 3 in 1 oil, motor oil or even radiator
coolant. Also make sure you make a barrier around the tailshaft so that the
fluid and shavings do not get down the shaft to the bearing.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:43 PM
Subject: Drilling/tapping hard steel shaft
> Hi EVeryone!
>
> First off, happy Thanksgiving tomorrow!
>
> I'm installing a speed sensor, and need to drill out my motor tailshaft
> for the 1/4" bolt that holds the magnetic unit on. I only had a few
> minutes today, and thought I could get through it. But the drill bit
> just didn't seem to dig in. What are the tricks for drilling hard steel
> such as a motor shaft? Any additional tips for when I go to tap it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
> --
> - EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
> Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
> All at the best prices available!
> E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
TEVA2 now has a web site, it is just up with lots of work to do... Got some
links on it and after the next meeting we'll have some more stuff. We also want
to use the wiki so that anybody can put anything up on it that has to do with
EV's.
www.TEVA2.com
Tucson Electric Vehicle Association 2
thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal"
Hmm, couldn't you just run the variac backwards and eliminate the step up
transformer?
I.e feed the 120V into the bottom and the variable tap and take your
charge voltage off the top and bottom taps?
This way you could (maybe) use a 120V variac.
I don't think this is going to work as to much current will flow into the
input , like putting 120v into a 60 v transformer , to get 240 out
-needs to be able to charge a 240 V pack (so up to
nearly 300 VDC)
-runs off either 110 or 220.
-less than $1k
Here's a bad boy idea that I don't think has a name :-) .
Take a bank of motor capacitors , the type that can take ac . hook in series
with a bridge rectifier on the ac side . Your dc out put will be anywhere
for 1v to 2 times the ac peak but your current will be proporsional to how
many capacitors you use . I used a milk crate filled with them and got about
10 amp into a 120v pack when hooked to 240. The thing with this set up is
that unlike a normal bad boy , this one dosen't know when to stop , their is
little cutting back of the current once you reach your charge voltage
unlike normal bad boys . What you would have to do is set somthing up to
take out some for the capacitors once you hit your charge voltage. I could
build you one for the price of a pfc 20 , ( just joking ).
-don't care about the power that much since i charge
over night anyway
-doesn't need a lot of smarts, but should atleast have
voltage and current adjustments.
What kind of batteries are you torturing, ah charging :-)
up to now i have been charging with a bench top power
supply (part of the pack at a time),but that is going
to get old really fast.
yep , You didn't say if you wanted it to be light so your 120 240 set up
could be some big heavy transformers / bridge rec and a voltage sence ,
making a charger can be alittle like making a raido if your a ham. Before I
got on the list and before I got my first pfc charger I made alot of
different chargers . At the time it was a lot of fun , trying different ways
to sence when the batteries where charged , like a string of zenor diodes
and fine tuned it with a pot , fed into a op amp ,
steve clunn
is there a modular solution that meets my needs ?
Delta-Q seems too expensive. anyone else ?
anyone got a used charger to sell ?
thanks.
~fortunat
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just did mine for the Misubishie Pick up that I'm getting ready for the
florida drags races , but it has a ADC 9 , . I spun the motor while I was
drilling to get the hole right in the middle . I don't think its harden
steel , it drilled ok for me. I made a plate for the sensor to bolt to the
two 3/8 bolts holes on the end cap .
Steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: Drilling/tapping hard steel shaft
Hi EVeryone!
First off, happy Thanksgiving tomorrow!
I'm installing a speed sensor, and need to drill out my motor tailshaft
for the 1/4" bolt that holds the magnetic unit on. I only had a few
minutes today, and thought I could get through it. But the drill bit just
didn't seem to dig in. What are the tricks for drilling hard steel such
as a motor shaft? Any additional tips for when I go to tap it?
Thanks,
Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Very nice start! That's a really good list of links too.
Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi all,
TEVA2 now has a web site, it is just up with lots of work to do... Got some
links on it and after the next meeting we'll have some more stuff. We also want
to use the wiki so that anybody can put anything up on it that has to do with
EV's.
www.TEVA2.com
Tucson Electric Vehicle Association 2
thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Very nice start! That's a really good list of links too.
Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi all,
TEVA2 now has a web site, it is just up with lots of work to do... Got some
links on it and after the next meeting we'll have some more stuff. We also want
to use the wiki so that anybody can put anything up on it that has to do with
EV's.
www.TEVA2.com
Tucson Electric Vehicle Association 2
thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Personals
Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
Lot's of someone's, actually. Yahoo! Personals
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2005-11-23, Ryan Bohm wrote:
>
> I'm installing a speed sensor, and need to drill out my motor tailshaft
> for the 1/4" bolt that holds the magnetic unit on.
Is it possible to just epoxy or clamp a rare earth magnet to the
shaft? That's what I've done for the speedo sensor on the front wheel
of my motorcycle ... works great. Depends on the max RPM of your
motor, I suppose.
-----sharks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 23, 2005, at 5:40 AM, Dewey, Jody R ATC (CVN75 IM3) wrote:
Also, I may be shopping for a new charger. Nothing fancy. Something
that
will charge 96-120 VDC traction pack and is able to accommodate AGM
batteries as well as "traditional" or "standard" 6/8/12VDC batteries.
Any
recommendations? I have three 30 year old Lester chargers. What is the
general opinion of Lester chargers? I believe my Lester chargers would
severely damage AGM batteries. Is this true?
The Lester will cook most any AGM battery pack. The problem is what
they think the far end of charge should look like. It likes to pound in
between 4 and 8 amps at 2.5 volts per cell. Then the amps stay near
that level until the voltage stops rising (somewhere around 2.6vpc for
flooded golf cart lead.)
Most AGMs needs a finish charge that holds about 2.5vpc and lets the
amps fall. A charged Optima being force fed 4 amps will quickly go over
17 volts!
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 23, 2005, at 1:19 PM, David Roden wrote:
Ah, we can always count on our friends at "Electrifying Times" to keep
us
alert and prepared against the dark side of The Force.
Uh oh, look out! There's one behind that tree over there!
;-)
Neon John wrote? <G>
Don't apologize in your next post! Good call, I took the time to read
that, that...
I couldn't find a way to say what I thought as tactfully as you did.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would say that Consumer Reports has some serious problems with
their testing methodology. Their testing on a 1998 Chevy Metro
yielded 29 mpg. I own a '99 Metro 4-cylinder sedan, and I've never
managed to get it below 36 mpg--even local driving in the snow with
tire chains did better, and my daily commute (including the 4,600
foot climb home each day) yields 39-40 mpg.
The Prius is a midsize car; the Echo was a compact car. A comparably
equipped Echo (which, incidentally, isn't being made anymore) is
around $15,000. The Metro simply doesn't compare in any fashion to a
modern car. (And in my case, those three transmission rebuilds in
100,000 miles more than made up for the great mileage.)
Tim
From: "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: November 23, 2005 10:19:24 AM PST
To: [email protected]
Subject: Hybrid basher? not me.
From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EVLN(I would like to see plug-in hybrid model as an
option)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:18:32 -0800
Hello to Phil and All,
I know this is getting off topic, but the hybrid bashers, most who
have not even owned or driven one, need to be corrected.
John - I have never "bashed" hybrids, and, in fact, I think that
we would all be better off if people drove more of them. I think
they're great cars. At the moment thought, the price/benefit ratio
is higher than I would like to pay.
But, I do have a problem with unsupported, exaggerated claims ,
used in an effort to prove peoples' arguments.
Unlike EPA, Consumer Reports actually drove these cars and measured
the fuel mileage.
The fact that you disagree with some of their ratings and
recommendations about other cars, years ago, has no relevance to
their test data. I am not quoting their opinions or suggestions -
just the results of testing that they performed.
Your claim of the mileage you get with your Insight is also
irrelevant to this discussion - I was not talking about the
Insight. I was setting the record straight on the Prius vs
conventional car mileage question. And, your claim of your mileage
is just that - an undocumented claim on a single car by a single
driver. In your case, a highly skilled driver - not the average
Joe on the road.
--- End Message ---
