EV Digest 4935
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Low rolling resistance tires
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Was: BIG DEAL w/ Charging?/chg. tip for newbies
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Lithium nanothingies (was Toshiba's New Lithium...)
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Question about MK battery AGMs and Gel cells
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Wright Effect, Wrong Result? By Bill Moore
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Alltrax 7245 controller - man what a reversing experience!
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Charger options
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Alltrax 7245 controller - man what a reversing experience!
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Vortex Generators and/or Strakes
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Charger options
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Drilling/tapping hard steel shaft
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Charger options
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Spacers, rims for GEM, Think Nieghbors,Re: Low rolling resistance tires
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Drilling/tapping hard steel shaft
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Drilling/tapping hard steel shaft
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) 3 wheelers and DOT Requirements
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 3 wheelers and DOT Requirements
by "Tim Stephenson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: 3 wheelers and DOT Requirements
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ouch ,USA tires importation seems a black business for seller which give you
such price.
I understand better your tires choice now :^)
There is still few 165/65/14 Proxima available if pre-ordered at tires
seller here but not a lot :^(
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: Low rolling resistance tires
> When I tried buying them there were only a couple places that had them and
> they wanted $300+ a piece.
>
> If they were only $90, I would have bought them over the RE92s, especially
> considering the fact that the type of RE92 I got wasn't one of the "true"
> LRR sizes.
>
> My RE92s get about 10-15% less range than my old Goodyear LRR tires that
> are no longer in production (Invictas ?, something like that)
>
> > Michelin LRR tires were named Proxima and price was arround 90$
expensive
> > but not even close to 350$...or you take 4 :^)
> >
> > cordialement,
> > Philippe
> >
> > Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> > quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> > Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> > http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 1:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: Low rolling resistance tires
> >
> >
> >> > I was hoping it would. However, does anyone have a guess at a number?
> >> >
> >>
> >> 10-20% depending on numerous other factors.
> >>
> >> > And if I had an EV sitting here--how much would it likely cost me to
> >> > put low rolling resistance tires on it?
> >>
> >> Anywhere from zero extra cost to $200-$300 more per tire, kinda depends
> >> on
> >> what tire you are looking at and which one you are comparing it too.
> >> My Potenza RE92s cost me about $65 each. Michalin had a true LRR tire
> >> at
> >> the time that ran something like $350 each.
> >>
> >> > Does it require new wheels, or just new tires? If only new tires,
> >> > could I get even more efficiency out of getting new wheels, too?
> >>
> >> Nope. If you currently have really heaving wheels, then you might see
a
> >> miniscule improvement in efficiency by swapping to lighter wheels.
> >> FWIW cheap steel wheels are often lighter than expensive Aluminum "mag"
> >> wheels.
> >>
> >> > Anyway, if I can increase range by 10-20% for a few hundred dollars,
> >> > that seems to make pretty good sense to me.
> >>
> >> Yup, that's why a lot of EVers buy LRR tires.
> >>
> >> --
> >> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> >> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever
> >> I
> >> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> >> legalistic signature is void.
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some people take longer to "get it" than others, when
it comes to charging. My first pack and 1/2 had
single caps. This set has speed caps. Talk about the
domino effect:
Speed caps leak more on EQing and final phase of
charge. Leaking electrolyte caused surface charge;
thus leaking current! My voltage never went higher,
and was fluctuating, along with current. I'm going
nuts trying to figure out why the PFC-20 never
throttled back on current. I try raising the voltage;
current goes up. Something isn't right! Either
charger is bad, or I have some terrible cells after
only 1.3 years.
Needless to say, I found the reason. Simply
cleaning off some electrolyte here and there, and the
voltage goes up & current throttles back once again.
This is why EVs are not suitable (at least with
flooded lead acid) to the general public. If _I_
after 8 years and incessant reading of EV/battery
maintenance don't just read this like a book, why
should joe public?
Needless to say, next set will have individual
caps!
peace,
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Victor,
I came to this DL because I believe in EVs and that battery technology would
be a more energy efficient solution than hydrogen. Several on this and
related lists have PV arrays that can recharge their EVs directly or
indirectly (pump to the grid during the day and recharge at night). To
produce hydrogen through electrolysis, you'd need 4 times the array size.
With that said, I think it is interesting to ask questions and run the
numbers. You, Rich and others continue to do so but have thrown out numbers
and rates I don't have a good feel for. What **is** doable with respect to
high rate recharges?
Rich's highest rated charger is a 240v at 50 amps. I think I remember that
he's talked about a 100 amp charger. Would my scenario of pumping in
electrons from 240v 250 amp service be practical or doable? Could it be
done at higher rates without causing electrical problems up and down the
grid? Could a vehicle be built that could withstand a 440v at 400 amp
charge? Thereby bringing the recharge time down to around your pubically
acceptable suggestion of 15 minutes.
Or would you need an overhead grid or third rail from which to draw power to
**recharge** your pack while you drive thereby moderating local surges?
Would higher energy density batteries mute this question by the driver
wearing out before the batteries approach discharge?
Stopping every 200 miles for an hour recharge is not too appealing to me but
if a 30 minute recharge after 300 miles on the road is doable, I can see
the public readily endorsing EVs for the long haul.
250 wh/mile * 300 miles = 75kW pack (make it an 80kW pack with 5kW reserve)
75kW / 440v = 170 amps over an hour
170 * 1.1 (for charger inefficiency) = ~ 188 amps
Supplying this amount of amps in a half hour = ~375Ah service
The Toshiba battery, in an 18650 format, could recharge 80% of 1.2 amphrs of
a 3.7 volt LiIon battery in one minute and if we assume the battery is
topped off in five minutes, then scaling this up to a 30 minute recharge
would mean a Toshiba pack could recharge to 80% of capacity after 6 minutes
and the next 24 minutes would be for topping off. Instead of trying to
recharge a 75 kw pack to 80% in 6 minutes. How about growing the pack 20%
and topping 80% of it off in 30 minutes? Therefore, instead of dealing with
a 75kw pack, the pack would be a 90 kw pack. So instead of a 1500 Ahr
service (375 * 30/6minutes * 80%) we concentrate on the 375 Ahr service.
Can a 90 kw pack sustain 375 Ah at 440v in 30 minutes?
Overall, what are ** practical ** rates?
A 90kw pack set up for a 440v system should produce 204 amps. The batteries
in the pack would only have to sustain a 2C charge for slightly less than 30
minutes. Or a 220v system would have to sustain a 4C charge for the same
amount of time.
An 18650 LiIon battery weighs approximately 1.5 oz. or 43gm. Assuming the
Toshiba scales up to a 18650, it would have a 1.2Amp capacity @3.6v nominal
or a 4.32 W capacity. We'd need 20833- 18650's to create a 90kW pack. At
43 grams per battery, that's about a 900Kg pack or approximately a ton. By
increasing the capacity over time to about 2.4 Amps, the weight could be
reduced to about 450kg or 1/2 ton.
At 10K batteries @$5ea and having them last 360K to 1.8 million miles (300
miles * ( 4,000 to 20,000 cycles) * .9). Cost per mile would range from
~$0.15 down to ~$0.03 per mile. The 20,000 cycles comes from a linear
progression of 1% capacity loss per 1,000 cycles under ideal conditions
while the 4,000 cycles comes from a quess of 5% loss per 1,000 cycles.
We have a ways to go but I feel gladdened that we are approaching doable
long haul EVs.
Happy Thanksgiving to you, your families, and friends!!!
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:47 AM
Subject: Re: Lithium nanothingies (was Toshiba's New Lithium...)
> Why do you want to travel in an EV, may I ask?
>
> Victor
>
> Peter Eckhoff wrote:
> > When I travel, most of my refueling - potty - get something to eat stops
> > take about a half hour. Recharging could be done while inside. If I
had a
> > car that used about 250 Wh/mi, a 200 mile span between stops would
require a
> > 50kW recharge + 10%? for charger inefficiencies. Therefore, I'd need
440v/
> > 250Ah service to recharge in a half hour or I'd have to learn how to
relax
> > and enjoy a fine repast at Le Gold'n Archez. So in an hour 240v at 250
amps
> > is nearer to possible maximum household service. A one hour break every
200
> > miles is not too appealling
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Related weird idea: Get two rear ends, siamese them together
> so you have two pumpkins. Weld locked the differentials. Turn
> each driveshaft with its own motor. Shorten the outer ends.
I'm not sure I'm following you here (but the idea is bizarre enough to
be intriquing ;^):
What I think you are suggesting is to have a rearend with two pumpkins
side by side; the outer axles drive the wheels (as normal), and each
pinion (driveshaft) is spun by its own motor. The two inner axles
connect together?
I think that the inner axles would spin freely and the wheels would
receive no power at all, unless you lock the inner axles to the housing
so they can't turn. If you do this, then the differentials are acting
only as bevel gears (and may fail prematurely since a diff normally does
not operate for long periods with the output shafts turning at radically
different speeds).
With each wheel spun by its own motor, you really shouldn't need a
differential, so why not choose an IRS rear end setup, ditch the diff,
and use a simple chain drive to connect each transversely mounted motor
to its own axle shaft?
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
My 1980 Jet Electra Van has the stock battery box which was built to hold BCI
GC2 size batteries. So currently, there are 16 Trojan T105 flooded batts inside
it now. They fit like a hand in a glove in there. I'd like to change out the
T105s and drop-in a sealed batt set of the same BCI: nice and easy, looks like
I could even use the existing interconnects.
Concorde battery makes an AGM-6220T which should work okay but recently I've
been looking at MK battery specs. Mk battery makes both an AGM battery and a
Gel-cell battery of the correct size.
One complication I see is how to regulate 6 volt AGMs. Is anyone on the list
using regulators with 6 volt AGM batts?
It seems like the Gel cells might be the easiest way to go and maybe longer
life too. Is anyone using MK battery gel cells on a dc system? I just have a
Curtis 1221c so my current draw is low anyway.
Mark Freidberg
EAA member
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> ...licenses are very restrictive. They apparently limit the power of the
> batteries and their applications, with Cobasys reserving the
> right to be the sole manufacturer of batteries for electric-drive vehicles
in
> North America.
Solution: Build and market hybrid plug-in vehicles with a "no battery" or
glider option. Provide enough space so the vehicle purchaser can purchase
their own batteries and have them installed in the States.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The throttle seems too sensitive. I need to re-programe the
> controller so that the throttle response is linear. I think its on log.
When I first connected up my ALLTRAX and energized the contactor, the motor
went full throttle, despite my absolute certainty that I wired it all up
right.
Then it occurred to me: the ALLTRAX is programmable----perhaps it has its
Throttle Sensor default to Throttle Pot (I use an ITS---Inductive Throttle
Sensor). Sure enough, that was it. Five minutes later after reprogramming
it to ITS, the controller worked like a champ and I was motoring out of my
boat slip and upriver.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
[moderator: Yahoo Electric Boats list]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Nov 22, 2005, at 4:25 PM, STEVE CLUNN wrote:
Here's a bad boy idea that I don't think has a name :-) .
Take a bank of motor capacitors , the type that can take ac . hook in
series with a bridge rectifier on the ac side . Your dc out put will
be anywhere for 1v to 2 times the ac peak but your current will be
proporsional to how many capacitors you use .
Rich or John will know the slang term for that type of charger. Ammo
box charger comes to my mind. John has (or had) one in his garage.
Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
True. All of mine have come with stickers on the end indicating what
the factory default programming was.
I've tried several different profiles with my 7245 and have returned
to the linear one in my Citi. I use the square root one on my 450 amp
scooter to gain some finess from a start so as to minimize the power
wheelies :-)
To answer the other question, yes, the DB9 connector comes packed with
silicone grease. Alltrax makes a big deal about the controller being
waterproof. Sealing that connector is part of it.
John
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 12:47:07 -0800, "Myles Twete"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The throttle seems too sensitive. I need to re-programe the
>> controller so that the throttle response is linear. I think its on log.
>
>When I first connected up my ALLTRAX and energized the contactor, the motor
>went full throttle, despite my absolute certainty that I wired it all up
>right.
>Then it occurred to me: the ALLTRAX is programmable----perhaps it has its
>Throttle Sensor default to Throttle Pot (I use an ITS---Inductive Throttle
>Sensor). Sure enough, that was it. Five minutes later after reprogramming
>it to ITS, the controller worked like a champ and I was motoring out of my
>boat slip and upriver.
>
>-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
>[moderator: Yahoo Electric Boats list]
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pretty much none.
Generators are available for motorhomes, vehicles with about the worst
aerodynamics out there. A review I read several years ago showed a
small benefit at highway speed, in the less than 10% range. "Highway
speed" generally means 65-70 mph, well past the knee in the aero drag
curve. 40-45 is well below the knee and so aero drag is still a fairly
small component.
John
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:15:58 -0800 (PST), Ross Henderson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>What kind of effect is there at 40 to 45 mph?
>
>jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Patrick and All,
>
>Patrick Maston
> wrote: Has anyone tried vortex generators and/or strakes on their EV to
> produce
>an "aerodynamic boattail" to reduce drag from the rear of the vehicle?
>If so, what do you estimate the improvement in efficiency to be?
>
> I've been advocating them for yrs but no one seems to want to use them
> despite a high sped range improvement of 5-10%. It of curse depends on the
> EV. Ones with rounded rears like the Sparrow, VW bug, ect could use them the
> most by making the diverging vortexes smaller or even changing them to
> converging ones, thus less drag..
> HTH's,
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First off, I'm not trying to promote this as a practical idea in any
way!
You have the basic right idea. Shorten the inner axles so the
pumpkins (differentials) almost touch, and weld together. Shorten the
outer axles enough so the wheels don't stick out too far. Each
electric motor drives its own driveshaft.
If you weld the pinion gears so they don't turn you should be able to
chop off the inner axles and still turn the outer axles, and not have
undue wear.
It would be a radical look to have a jacked-up hot rod with two
pumpkins visible in the rear axle.
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> David Dymaxion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Related weird idea: Get two rear ends, siamese them together
> > so you have two pumpkins. Weld locked the differentials. Turn
> > each driveshaft with its own motor. Shorten the outer ends.
>
> I'm not sure I'm following you here (but the idea is bizarre enough
> to
> be intriquing ;^):
>
> What I think you are suggesting is to have a rearend with two
> pumpkins
> side by side; the outer axles drive the wheels (as normal), and
> each
> pinion (driveshaft) is spun by its own motor. The two inner axles
> connect together?
>
> I think that the inner axles would spin freely and the wheels would
> receive no power at all, unless you lock the inner axles to the
> housing
> so they can't turn. If you do this, then the differentials are
> acting
> only as bevel gears (and may fail prematurely since a diff normally
> does
> not operate for long periods with the output shafts turning at
> radically
> different speeds).
>
> With each wheel spun by its own motor, you really shouldn't need a
> differential, so why not choose an IRS rear end setup, ditch the
> diff,
> and use a simple chain drive to connect each transversely mounted
> motor
> to its own axle shaft?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> First off, I'm not trying to promote this as a practical idea
> in any way!
Gotcha.
> You have the basic right idea. Shorten the inner axles so the
> pumpkins (differentials) almost touch, and weld together.
> Shorten the outer axles enough so the wheels don't stick out
> too far. Each electric motor drives its own driveshaft.
>
> If you weld the pinion gears so they don't turn you should be
> able to chop off the inner axles and still turn the outer
> axles, and not have undue wear.
OK; I'm with you now.
> It would be a radical look to have a jacked-up hot rod with
> two pumpkins visible in the rear axle.
Yes, I won't even get into the paint possibilities and comments a
vehicle like this could generate! ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Happy Thanksgiving to All,
Paul G. wrote:
On Nov 22, 2005, at 4:25 PM, STEVE CLUNN wrote:
Here's a bad boy idea that I don't think has a name :-) .
Take a bank of motor capacitors , the type that can take ac . hook in
series with a bridge rectifier on the ac side . Your dc out put will
be anywhere for 1v to 2 times the ac peak but your current will be
proporsional to how many capacitors you use .
Rich or John will know the slang term for that type of charger. Ammo
box charger comes to my mind. John has (or had) one in his garage.
Paul
Nope, the Ammo Box charger is the monster that Madman Rudman came up
with, that's essentially a large variac and other goodies stuffed inside
an ammunitions box (Ammo Box) with the adjuster shaft sticking out the
side of the box with a clamped-on ViseGrip as a handle! This is the
charger Rudman used the night we were re-charging Red Beastie years ago
after its famous 440 mile round trip from Portland to Seattle and back,
at Father Time's house. We had driven the 120V truck, jammed full with
40, T-105 6V batteries, from Pacific NW EVer Pat Sweeney's house in
Tenino, WA (105 miles north of Portland and the in-between charging
station) up to Seattle, then without a re-charge, entered the truck in a
parade and ran it another hour or so that way, then again without a
re-charge, drove it uphill miles away to the city of Burien, WA to
Father Time's place. This was more than 120 miles of driving, most all
of it freeway and the last 15 miles or so uphill. Rudman was dimming
the street lights and overloading the pole mounted transformer trying to
feed the Beastie!
You're talking about the 'Ugly Box'. Yeah, got one right here in my EV
shop. It's called the 'Ugly Box' capacitor charger....said name derived
from the 'ugly box' that the charger's guts were first stuffed into.
Pat Sweeney made the first one for me, that along with the banks of
motor-run type oil filled caps, also had a microprocessor brain that
would control everything. This was all pre PFC Manzanita Micro stuff.
One eventful day, a high current conductor got blown away from a high
current diode that let go with a bi BANG and lots of smoke, that sent
the wire arching over and landing right onto the micro's circuit
board...POOF....bye bye micro! After that, it was merely a big dumb
charger with no auto-shut-off, no variable amps-out feature.
Later on, I made a new aluminum housing for the ugly box cap. charger
with Marko at the metal shop and redesigned the charger a bit
differently, with solid state relays that could be switched on with a
couple of toggle switches. This charger is connected to the 240 vac
line. With both toggles off, it makes about 9 amps into a 156V
pack...one toggle on and it bumps up to about 17 amps...both toggles on
and it cranks out about 22 amps. I could add more caps. if I wanted to
to get even higher current output. The Ugly Box is cool, because as long
as you're being careful and sit there and babysit it, you can charge
just about any battery or battery pack up to around 288 volts (it tops
out at around 350 vdc as connected to a 288V pack). I often use it to
fast charge the Heavy Metal Garden Tractor's 36V pack of 6 Exide
Orbitals (series/parallel buddied pair pack), and it sends about 31 amps
into it. It would be bad Ju Ju though, to forget about it being hooked
up to the tractor :-(
I've recently sold my beloved PFC30, the Zombie's EV shop charger
(George Tylinski has been very generous and has made his PFC50 available
for super fast track side charging), and am awaiting my new and brawny
PFC75. The PFC30 was also used to do other charging duties around my EV
shop, and I miss it already :-( I've still got my hot rodded PFC20
mounted in Blue Meanie, but it's all set up for that car's 156V pack.
The Ugly Box has been put back in service keeping banks of new Orbitals
freshened up.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have seen someone connected two engines to the same differential about 30
years ago. One engine is threw the normal pinion and ring gear. The other
motor connected on the back side of the differential using a adapter unit that
held another pinion which ran the same ring gear.
It was a aftermarket unit, that just bolted right up to the rear differential
cover.
The rotation would be easy to do for electric motors.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: David Dymaxion<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 4:28 PM
Subject: RE: Monster Garage Show Looking for Ampheads
First off, I'm not trying to promote this as a practical idea in any
way!
You have the basic right idea. Shorten the inner axles so the
pumpkins (differentials) almost touch, and weld together. Shorten the
outer axles enough so the wheels don't stick out too far. Each
electric motor drives its own driveshaft.
If you weld the pinion gears so they don't turn you should be able to
chop off the inner axles and still turn the outer axles, and not have
undue wear.
It would be a radical look to have a jacked-up hot rod with two
pumpkins visible in the rear axle.
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> David Dymaxion [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Related weird idea: Get two rear ends, siamese them together
> > so you have two pumpkins. Weld locked the differentials. Turn
> > each driveshaft with its own motor. Shorten the outer ends.
>
> I'm not sure I'm following you here (but the idea is bizarre enough
> to
> be intriquing ;^):
>
> What I think you are suggesting is to have a rearend with two
> pumpkins
> side by side; the outer axles drive the wheels (as normal), and
> each
> pinion (driveshaft) is spun by its own motor. The two inner axles
> connect together?
>
> I think that the inner axles would spin freely and the wheels would
> receive no power at all, unless you lock the inner axles to the
> housing
> so they can't turn. If you do this, then the differentials are
> acting
> only as bevel gears (and may fail prematurely since a diff normally
> does
> not operate for long periods with the output shafts turning at
> radically
> different speeds).
>
> With each wheel spun by its own motor, you really shouldn't need a
> differential, so why not choose an IRS rear end setup, ditch the
> diff,
> and use a simple chain drive to connect each transversely mounted
> motor
> to its own axle shaft?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan,
I drilled my 15HP motor's 1.25" shaft two summers ago. It went quite
well...but I spent a long time preparing the jigs. I used a
titanium-nitride (TiN) 31/64" drill bit - the only type I would
recommend. Certainly, I would warn against getting anything like WD-40
inside the motor bearings. It washed out the grease from mine, and
along with shavings, ruined the front bearing - which I later replaced.
It would be best to drill the motor sideways.
This video is actually sideways itself but it shows the vertical
drilling of the unit (note that the motor is powered by my electronics):
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/p1010022.mov
This picture gives an overview:
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/p1010029.jpg
There are more pictures of the jig that bolts onto the motor (The Robot)
on my website.
- Arthur
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/awmatt
> Hi EVeryone!
>
> First off, happy Thanksgiving tomorrow!
>
> I'm installing a speed sensor, and need to drill out my motor tailshaft
> for the 1/4" bolt that holds the magnetic unit on. I only had a few
> minutes today, and thought I could get through it. But the drill bit
> just didn't seem to dig in. What are the tricks for drilling hard steel
> such as a motor shaft? Any additional tips for when I go to tap it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The charger I had in my EV call the TRANSFORMER I, before I change it out with
Rich's PFC-50B charger, was a multiphase charger that require no transformer,
except the one on the power pole.
I had the power company jack up the voltage on my power pole transformer to 250
VAC so it could charge 180 volts of batteries which would start out at 30 amps
using only 2 phases of a 3 phase line going to my home. At work I can used all
3 phases, which the DC output voltage would be 280 VDC that would go up over
150 amps on start. I normally held it to 50 amps on which was on a 50 amp
circuit breaker.
The three phase has to be connected in 250 VAC Delta, not 120/208 VAC Wye. A
center tap of one of the 250 VAC transformer is required to get a neutral
connection for 250/125 VAC which is 2 phase connection.
Roland
The bridge had 100 amps SCR's instead of diodes. The gate of the SCR's was
adjusted by a manual pot where I can control the ampere from 0 to 60 amps or
more.
I can adjust it at 50 amps on started, it would stay there, until the charger
volts peak at 233 volts and than the ampere would than taper down to 5 amps.
With the PFC-50B, I only need to adjust the AC ampere to 40 amp at 250 VAC, the
DC out is 50 Amp at 233 VDC. This only takes 40 minutes to charge the battery
from 50% to 80%.
I have run the PFC-50B for about 2 years on my batteries that are about 4 years
old. The voltage difference is still only 0.02 in 4 batteries and 0.01 in the
all the others.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: John Wayland<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Charger options
Happy Thanksgiving to All,
Paul G. wrote:
>
> On Nov 22, 2005, at 4:25 PM, STEVE CLUNN wrote:
>
>> Here's a bad boy idea that I don't think has a name :-) .
>> Take a bank of motor capacitors , the type that can take ac . hook in
>> series with a bridge rectifier on the ac side . Your dc out put will
>> be anywhere for 1v to 2 times the ac peak but your current will be
>> proporsional to how many capacitors you use .
>
>
> Rich or John will know the slang term for that type of charger. Ammo
> box charger comes to my mind. John has (or had) one in his garage.
>
> Paul
Nope, the Ammo Box charger is the monster that Madman Rudman came up
with, that's essentially a large variac and other goodies stuffed inside
an ammunitions box (Ammo Box) with the adjuster shaft sticking out the
side of the box with a clamped-on ViseGrip as a handle! This is the
charger Rudman used the night we were re-charging Red Beastie years ago
after its famous 440 mile round trip from Portland to Seattle and back,
at Father Time's house. We had driven the 120V truck, jammed full with
40, T-105 6V batteries, from Pacific NW EVer Pat Sweeney's house in
Tenino, WA (105 miles north of Portland and the in-between charging
station) up to Seattle, then without a re-charge, entered the truck in a
parade and ran it another hour or so that way, then again without a
re-charge, drove it uphill miles away to the city of Burien, WA to
Father Time's place. This was more than 120 miles of driving, most all
of it freeway and the last 15 miles or so uphill. Rudman was dimming
the street lights and overloading the pole mounted transformer trying to
feed the Beastie!
You're talking about the 'Ugly Box'. Yeah, got one right here in my EV
shop. It's called the 'Ugly Box' capacitor charger....said name derived
from the 'ugly box' that the charger's guts were first stuffed into.
Pat Sweeney made the first one for me, that along with the banks of
motor-run type oil filled caps, also had a microprocessor brain that
would control everything. This was all pre PFC Manzanita Micro stuff.
One eventful day, a high current conductor got blown away from a high
current diode that let go with a bi BANG and lots of smoke, that sent
the wire arching over and landing right onto the micro's circuit
board...POOF....bye bye micro! After that, it was merely a big dumb
charger with no auto-shut-off, no variable amps-out feature.
Later on, I made a new aluminum housing for the ugly box cap. charger
with Marko at the metal shop and redesigned the charger a bit
differently, with solid state relays that could be switched on with a
couple of toggle switches. This charger is connected to the 240 vac
line. With both toggles off, it makes about 9 amps into a 156V
pack...one toggle on and it bumps up to about 17 amps...both toggles on
and it cranks out about 22 amps. I could add more caps. if I wanted to
to get even higher current output. The Ugly Box is cool, because as long
as you're being careful and sit there and babysit it, you can charge
just about any battery or battery pack up to around 288 volts (it tops
out at around 350 vdc as connected to a 288V pack). I often use it to
fast charge the Heavy Metal Garden Tractor's 36V pack of 6 Exide
Orbitals (series/parallel buddied pair pack), and it sends about 31 amps
into it. It would be bad Ju Ju though, to forget about it being hooked
up to the tractor :-(
I've recently sold my beloved PFC30, the Zombie's EV shop charger
(George Tylinski has been very generous and has made his PFC50 available
for super fast track side charging), and am awaiting my new and brawny
PFC75. The PFC30 was also used to do other charging duties around my EV
shop, and I miss it already :-( I've still got my hot rodded PFC20
mounted in Blue Meanie, but it's all set up for that car's 156V pack.
The Ugly Box has been put back in service keeping banks of new Orbitals
freshened up.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan and All,
For spacers I use all thread coupling nuts available in
better hardware stores and bolt stores.
Trailer rims have the right size 4 bolt rims for these and GC's.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ricky wrote:
> That was a Think Neighbor he put them on (sorry should have specified). They
> >have the same 4 X 4" bolt pattern as the GEM's. You'd have to do the same
> thing >I did, get wheel adapter-spacers in order to make normal car size
> wheels work
Link for adapters if anyone needs them:
http://www.airbagit-store.com/product_category.asp?id=513
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice job Arthur, and thanks for going to the effort of capturing the images
- it really helps for the rest of us.
If the "drill press" and motor assembly were horizontal would you be able to
use the WD40 as your drill lubricant without affecting the motor bearing?
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Arthur W. Matteson
Sent: November 24, 2005 4:30 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Drilling/tapping hard steel shaft
Hi Ryan,
I drilled my 15HP motor's 1.25" shaft two summers ago. It went quite
well...but I spent a long time preparing the jigs. I used a
titanium-nitride (TiN) 31/64" drill bit - the only type I would recommend.
Certainly, I would warn against getting anything like WD-40 inside the motor
bearings. It washed out the grease from mine, and along with shavings,
ruined the front bearing - which I later replaced.
It would be best to drill the motor sideways.
This video is actually sideways itself but it shows the vertical drilling of
the unit (note that the motor is powered by my electronics):
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/p1010022.mov
This picture gives an overview:
http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/p1010029.jpg
There are more pictures of the jig that bolts onto the motor (The Robot) on
my website.
- Arthur
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/awmatt
> Hi EVeryone!
>
> First off, happy Thanksgiving tomorrow!
>
> I'm installing a speed sensor, and need to drill out my motor
> tailshaft for the 1/4" bolt that holds the magnetic unit on. I only
> had a few minutes today, and thought I could get through it. But the
> drill bit just didn't seem to dig in. What are the tricks for
> drilling hard steel such as a motor shaft? Any additional tips for when I
go to tap it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Nice job Arthur, and thanks for going to the effort of capturing the images
> - it really helps for the rest of us.
Thanks! I make my motor control code and many of my designs freely
available on my website as well.
> If the "drill press" and motor assembly were horizontal would you be able to
> use the WD40 as your drill lubricant without affecting the motor bearing?
That's up to the machinist's ingenuity - but probably. Dripping would
be better than spraying unless a towel was tightly around the motor
shaft.
As seen in the still photo, I (or my father, actually) shortened the
motor shaft about 2" with a 4.5" angle grinder. In addition, the car
has been tested on the road with the shown modifications.
- Arthur
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/awmatt
> This video is actually sideways itself but it shows the vertical
> drilling of
> the unit (note that the motor is powered by my electronics):
> http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/p1010022.mov
>
> This picture gives an overview:
> http://www.egr.msu.edu/~mattes12/p1010029.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was perusing the Canadian DOT requirements and noticed that it says
"passenger vehicle or 3-wheel vehicle" in a majority of the standards,
implying that 3 wheelers must adhere to the same standards as passenger
cars. I heard that the american standards were the same as the Canadian, so
I looked at the US DOT standards but did not find the same explicit
association. (Although the definition of a passenger car, according to the
US DOT, can easily include a 3-wheeler).
So what I find confusing is that I have heard on this list that 3-wheel DOT
standards are **not** the same as passenger cars. That somehow 3-wheelers
can be produced without strict requirements.
So in what US legislation, standard or policy does it state that 3-wheelers
are exempt or excluded from the same standards as passenger cars?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
3 wheelers are considered motorcycles in Virginia, and perhaps across the
USA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:41 PM
Subject: 3 wheelers and DOT Requirements
> I was perusing the Canadian DOT requirements and noticed that it says
> "passenger vehicle or 3-wheel vehicle" in a majority of the standards,
> implying that 3 wheelers must adhere to the same standards as passenger
> cars. I heard that the american standards were the same as the Canadian,
so
> I looked at the US DOT standards but did not find the same explicit
> association. (Although the definition of a passenger car, according to
the
> US DOT, can easily include a 3-wheeler).
>
> So what I find confusing is that I have heard on this list that 3-wheel
DOT
> standards are **not** the same as passenger cars. That somehow
3-wheelers
> can be produced without strict requirements.
>
> So in what US legislation, standard or policy does it state that
3-wheelers
> are exempt or excluded from the same standards as passenger cars?
>
>
> thanks
> Don
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am looking for the legislation that says this, do you know where it can be
found?
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tim Stephenson
Sent: November 24, 2005 7:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 3 wheelers and DOT Requirements
3 wheelers are considered motorcycles in Virginia, and perhaps across the
USA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:41 PM
Subject: 3 wheelers and DOT Requirements
> I was perusing the Canadian DOT requirements and noticed that it says
> "passenger vehicle or 3-wheel vehicle" in a majority of the standards,
> implying that 3 wheelers must adhere to the same standards as passenger
> cars. I heard that the american standards were the same as the Canadian,
so
> I looked at the US DOT standards but did not find the same explicit
> association. (Although the definition of a passenger car, according to
the
> US DOT, can easily include a 3-wheeler).
>
> So what I find confusing is that I have heard on this list that 3-wheel
DOT
> standards are **not** the same as passenger cars. That somehow
3-wheelers
> can be produced without strict requirements.
>
> So in what US legislation, standard or policy does it state that
3-wheelers
> are exempt or excluded from the same standards as passenger cars?
>
>
> thanks
> Don
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
>
--- End Message ---
