EV Digest 5086
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Transmission replacement
by Seppo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Transmission replacement
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: alum flywheel?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Emeter first power up problems...
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Transmission replacement
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Batts. & timers & my next set-- (oh, my!)
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Emeter first power up problems...
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) 17 Volts
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EVForge.net Update
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EVForge.net Update
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) AC Controller, Zivan chargers for sale
by Tom Erekson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 17 Volts
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 17 Volts
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Budget EV - contactor controllers, low cost EV's
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Where can I get a high voltage switch? 48+
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: EVForge.net Update
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Geo Metro EV on a budget
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Geo Metro EV on a budget
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Inexpensive PWM kit
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Basic LED Question
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: alum flywheel?
by Rolf Gustafsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Gliders
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Geo Metro EV on a budget
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Basic LED Question
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Votes - how are we doin' ?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Neg supply for E-meter
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Basic LED Question
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Mk3 Regs
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Votes - how are we doin' ?
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: After Marin ampabout, Zivan down, needs exorcism
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Why not do the Wayland thing: use two motors and omit the
transmission completely...
Seppo
Andrew Paulsen kirjoitti 12.1.2006 kello 2.20:
Hi everyone,
I have the opportunity to get a nice 1998 Ford Ranger to convert. The
only setback is that it is an automatic. Can anyone tell me how
difficult it would be to replace the auto with a manual? Is it worth
trying? I imagine I could leave the clutch out, which would save some
trouble.
Andrew
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Andrew,
My automatic will bolt right up to the GE motor bell housing which also did the
standard transmission. The motor adapter fits both the the flywheel of the
standard transmission or the flex wheel of the automatic.
If you leave out the torque converter, so you do not have to idle at 500 rpm.
Then a Circlemate shaft can be used that bolts right to the motor adapter and
directly right into the pump of the auto transmission.
For my Warp 9 motor, the motor adapter will fit either a flywheel wheel or auto
trans flex plate.
If you already have a automatic, then its easy. If you change to a standard,
than you must add a clutch peddle, move the transmission cross member and
lengthen up the drive line.
If you have a standard which I have now with the Warp 9 which is used in place
of my GE and Automatic which is in maintenance, I just leave the clutch peddle
alone, Install a Hurst shift cable to my existing shift level that is in the
console, install the shorter driveline (which I had while this car was original
a automatic with a engine) and run cooling lines to my existing radiator which
I left in, because it has a section in it for the Air Conditioner.
Connect up the vacuum line, which would always be high, so this will not have
any effect on shifting between the shift points. The kick down rod that is
normally connected to a engine fuel control is not connected to anything at the
time. This is really not needed, because I'm using a B & M value body that I
can program to shift at different torques value instead of a preset RPM.
Roland
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Paulsen<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: Transmission replacement
Does the automatic transmission need a different adaptor than the
manual? And if so, are they available or is this something I would
need to get custom made? I also only need about 15 miles range to get
to work and back.
On 1/12/06, Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> It depends on what you are trying to accomplish and how much ambition you
> have. In line transmissions are easy enough to come by since most rangers
> were made with 5 speeds. You would have to install a hydraulic clutch and
> pedal of course. The slave cylinder is inside the bell housing on a Ranger
> and should come with the transmission.
>
> On the other hand I have chosen to keep my automatic in my Saab conversion.
> It is a performance model with a locking torque converter (Ranger will have
> one as well). The automatic is actually a bit less complicated to couple
> to the motor. There are those that would argue the point that automatics
> are lossy in efficiency, but in my case I wish to retain the power equipment
> and nicety of the vehicle. I only need to drive 15 to 20 miles per day and
> it will do that easilly enough.
>
> Just my two cents worth. (BTW I do own a 97 Ranger and am familiar with
> them.)
>
> Mark Ward
> St. Charles, MO
> 95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
> www.saabrina.blogspot.com<http://www.saabrina.blogspot.com/>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Paulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> To: "EVDL" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:20 PM
> Subject: Transmission replacement
>
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I have the opportunity to get a nice 1998 Ford Ranger to convert. The
> > only setback is that it is an automatic. Can anyone tell me how
> > difficult it would be to replace the auto with a manual? Is it worth
> > trying? I imagine I could leave the clutch out, which would save some
> > trouble.
> >
> > Andrew
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since the flywheel is rotating and geared weight (spins faster than
the wheels), saving 10 lbs off the flywheel and pressure plate is
like taking 30 lbs off the car for accelerating. For steady speed
cruising it is only like 10 lbs extra. So for my car, I estimate I'll
do the 1/4 mile as much as 0.1 seconds faster just due to the lighter
flywheel and pressure plate. If you do lots of stop and go commuting,
you might get 0.5% more range.
For an EV, you don't need metal past what's needed to bolt on the
pressure plate, so you can machine off the outer part (and starter
gear).
One more reason, for land speed racing you must have a machined
flywheel, cast ones are not permitted. I'm not sure if other racing
associations have a similar rule, but you could argue a machined
flywheel is a safer for racing.
So what it boils down to is $300 worth 1% faster and < 0.5% more
range? Maybe if you need a new flywheel anyway, but I think it is
hard to justify unless you are building a race car or money is not an
issue.
--- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> These guys make a bunch of alum flywheels.
> http://www.fidanza.com
>
> What is the advantage of using a lighter flywheel?
>
> I'm using a warp 9" with a manual 86 toyota pickup
> 4wd.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:59 AM
Subject: Emeter first power up problems...
So I wired up my emeter and powered it up with the HV+ line not attached
to anything.
I must assume your HV+ is not over 36v.
do you have all the other wires hooked up ?
It did not turn on in the manner the manual says it should and I
can't seem to get it to do anything.
It displays both a plus and minus sign and the word ALL. It has the first
and third bar graph lights turned on. Pressing SEL toggles through the
different indicator lights as expected. Holding down the SET button for
multiple seconds does not do anything. It did not turn on the first time
I hooked the power up because I was sliding a fuse holder together and did
not make a clean connection. Breaking the power connection and
reconnecting more smoothly turned it on in this state.
Any thoughts?
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Roland,
You are an inspiration! I am glad someone else sees the advantages of the
Automatic!
What miniimum RPM do you use to keep the pump running, etc?
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
---- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My auto transmission is a all aluminum unit without torque converter weighs
> less than the heavy cast iron transmission that has a 1/4 inch steel
> reinforced bell housing with a heavy flywheel and pressure plate.
>
> Could put in another all aluminum manual transmission with aluminum flywheel
> and bell housing for about $3500.00 which would weigh the same as the
> automatic which cost about $1000.00.
>
> I am not driving the long distances many of the EV'ers are doing, so I do not
> have to charge every day or try to get every bit of AH out of the battery to
> where I am going.
>
> Roland
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Dymaxion<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Transmission replacement
>
>
> One more thought, on one car I was considering as a conversion, the
> difference in weight between the auto and the manual was 100 lbs!
> Admittedly this was a V8 car, but even for an enconomy car the auto
> tranny might cost you a battery's worth of weight.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> This is the first site that came up when I Googled for 220V
> Hot Tub Motor Timers was:
> http://www.rhtubs.com/store/time.htm
>
> There's a fairly robust Indoor/Outdoor version for $100.
Thanks for the link.
If a multi-ON-OFF, 24hr, 220v timer like the Intermatic is desired ($100 on
the above site), just go to Home Depot and look for their Water Heater
timer. It's a 220v Intermatic and was only $40 when I bought one each for
our hot tub and our water heater.
With Time Of Use metering as we have, it has saved us bucks to constrain
when these things turn on.
-Myles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I must assume your HV+ is not over 36v.
do you have all the other wires hooked up ?
It normally is over this, but it is connected through the 0-100V prescaler.
However, I only have half my traction pack sitting on the bike right now, so
the highest voltage I have is around 25v.
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Will a car's 12V system tolerate a voltage as high as 17V?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
1) With the search, rather than display all the matching content, would it
be possible that it could just list the matching threads? Then a user can
click on a desired thread and read the content. (I think is similar to out
of the box phpBB)
2) Also, are you planning on have your site be able to post to the list as
well? It would be nice to dump the email list completely.
Don
Yes, the threaded display is what is on my to-do list after the big
import (hundreds of megs, goes just about *all* the way back, so I'm told).
As for the posting... I have a plan for that. I can't integrate the EVDL
into the existing forums, because those are internal-session based, and
I don't think people would like having any message sent from EVForge.net
being marked as "from" [EMAIL PROTECTED] There also is the matter of how
the phpFusion forum stores its thread - which has much more unseen
information the I could extract from the EVDL posts.
I was thinking about adding the post capability right onto the EVDL page
(which is a custom coded page anyways). The main thing this would
require is that a person be a member of both EVDL and EVForge.net (just
set your EVForge.net email setting the same as you use for EVDL) so I
can properly authenticate users and set the right "from" header in the
email to EVDL. This approach *should* work quite smoothly ;)
BTW: *2142 *visits so far. I have been submitting EVForge.net to a
couple website/resource directories every day (there are sooooo many out
there). Seems to be gradually working!
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Evan Tuer wrote:
Threading? I have 9000 EVDL messages in my gmail account alone, and
they are automatically (and intelligently) threaded.
It will thread, soon enough. My main focus so far has been data
integrity of the posts (no missed posts, darnit!) and the speed of the
queries, since the database will grow reasonably large - as you point out.
What would also be nice is a place where EVDL subscribers could email
attachments to, and then link to them on the list.
Great idea! Never thought of that (been busy though)
I will see about getting something like that up and running. File
attachments *will* be supported in the "post" form that I will be
adding. It will upload the file(s) onto the server, and add the link(s)
onto the end of the post.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BYU's EV race team is selling an EMS A/C controller that was used in our
Formula Lightning and two Zivan chargers. The items can be found at the
following auction site: www.publicsurplus.com/IANAuction/ut
Select "Utah" for the region and "Brigham Young University" for the agency
-- klick on "browse" -- then select "general" under "electronics" for the
items.
Tom Erekson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:07:28 -0700, "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Will a car's 12V system tolerate a voltage as high as 17V?
>
>Thanks.
For awhile. Lamps will burn out fairly quickly but everything else
except maybe an aftermarket radio should be OK. Both Ford and GM's
unpublished internal standard is that electronics must withstand 24
volts continuously. The purpose of this standard is to protect the
electronics in the event someone hits the car with a 24 volt start
pack or screws up connecting a booster and gets two batteries in
series. Since this is an unpublished standard, I'd not rely on it for
design purposes.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> Will a car's 12V system tolerate a voltage as high as 17V?
Briefly; VERY briefly!
The alternator in a normal ICE car is very slow to respond to load changes. If
it is running at full output and something causes the load to suddenly go
away, the alternator's output voltage can spike up to 40v or so for as much
as a tenth of a second.
This is called a "load dump", and can happen if you have a loose battery
terminal, or jump-start another car, or something momentarily shorts the 12v
buss and a fuse blows, or some very heavy load (like an electric power
steering motor) turns off.
Since it is relatively common, all car electrical equipment has to be built to
survive a load dump. If it isn't, it's going to DIE someday if/when the
dreaded load dump occurs!
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim wrote:
> It's possible to save even a little more money. If using the original
> manual transmission and clutch, this will give yourself additional speeds
> and you can then eliminate the starting resistor... just select 36 or 72
> volts via the 2 speed electric contactor controller and let the clutch out
> slowly in first gear like you do on a gasser then once you cannot
> accelerate any further then shift to second gear, then third, etc till you
> obtain your desired mph. With a 5 speed tranny you can have a possible 10
> speeds.
This works, but just barely. They did it this way on the old U.S. Electricar
Lectric Leopards. The motor starts with a pretty violent "lurch" without a
starting resistor. It's pretty hard on things (both the car and driver).
I would strongly recommend at least 3 speeds (with the first having a starting
resistor) as the minimum for a contactor controller.
> The above scenario would yield the approx theoretical following speeds if
> 72v and 5th gear equaled 60mph. [snip]
Your gear vs. speed chart works for a PM motor, but not a series motor. A
series motor's speed varies considerably dependingon load.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hastings wrote:
> Can anyone point me to a switch that is on-off-on, on-on-off or just on-off
> that will handle a 48volt contactor that is listed at 450 ohms?
48vdc at 0.1 amp is pretty easy. I'd try a DPDT center-off toggle switch, with
the two poles in series. Put diodes across the two contactor coils. Put an RC
snubber (like 100 ohms, 0.1uf) across each contact.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stefan,
I would like to thank you for the effort you are putting into this. I for
one would be OK with being a member of both if I could post to EVDL from
your site. Then I can dump the email client completely.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stefan T. Peters
Sent: January 12, 2006 10:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EVForge.net Update
Don Cameron wrote:
>
> 1) With the search, rather than display all the matching content,
> would it be possible that it could just list the matching threads?
> Then a user can click on a desired thread and read the content. (I
> think is similar to out of the box phpBB)
>
> 2) Also, are you planning on have your site be able to post to the
> list as well? It would be nice to dump the email list completely.
>
> Don
>
>
Yes, the threaded display is what is on my to-do list after the big import
(hundreds of megs, goes just about *all* the way back, so I'm told).
As for the posting... I have a plan for that. I can't integrate the EVDL
into the existing forums, because those are internal-session based, and I
don't think people would like having any message sent from EVForge.net being
marked as "from" [EMAIL PROTECTED] There also is the matter of how the
phpFusion forum stores its thread - which has much more unseen information
the I could extract from the EVDL posts.
I was thinking about adding the post capability right onto the EVDL page
(which is a custom coded page anyways). The main thing this would require is
that a person be a member of both EVDL and EVForge.net (just set your
EVForge.net email setting the same as you use for EVDL) so I can properly
authenticate users and set the right "from" header in the email to EVDL.
This approach *should* work quite smoothly ;)
BTW: *2142 *visits so far. I have been submitting EVForge.net to a couple
website/resource directories every day (there are sooooo many out there).
Seems to be gradually working!
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jmygann wrote:
> On my metro I currently have one contactor and a 5 speed trans. 48 volt
> My thought is to go to a Alltrax 7245 controller.
> What are the alternatives?
My, it must be fun driving with just an on/off switch for an accellerator. But
then, there are people that treat their ICE's gas pedal the same way! :-)
There are a LOT of options, both for electronic controllers and contactor
controllers.
Assuming you don't want to change your motor, common brands of electronic
controllers include Alltrax, Auburn (used), Cafe Electric, Curtis, DCP
(used), GE (used), Sevcon, and Zivan.
Contactor controllers you build yourself; they just consist of a few
contractors and wire, connected to arrange the batteries into several
series/parallel combinations.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Contactor controllers you build yourself; they just consist of a few
> contractors and wire, connected to arrange the batteries into several
> series/parallel combinations.
Are the contactors always breaking under full load, then, when you want to
stop supplying power to the motor?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For anyone wanting to learn about PWM controls, here is a nifty and
inexpensive little kit.
http://www.kitsusa.net/phpstore/html/K-8004--DC-TO-PULSE-WIDTH-MODULATOR.html
This board is capable of up to 35 volts and 6.5 amps with the supplied
FET. It uses a single chip PWM controller. It could certainly go
higher in current with a different FET.
In addition to being a great learning tool, the controller is useful
for things such as light dimming, motor speed control and the like. At
the price, it's almost a commodity.
BTW, Velleman has pretty much taken over where HeathKit left off and
has some really nifty stuff.
http://www.velleman-kit.com
Their kits are sold in the USA by the above vendor and
partsexpress.com, probably among others.
Another (non-EV) nifty kit is this one (cheaper here than above):
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=320-212
A dual 15 watt audio amplifier that runs on +-12 volts. I'm using one
of these and a couple of SLAs built inside a stereo speaker box to
make a fairly high powered (OK, not by Wayland's standard of high
power :-) self-contained speaker system for my Archos Jukebox (what an
Ipod wants to be when it grows up. Walmart sells a nice little stereo
car speaker box with so-so speakers for about $30. So for under $100
I have a nice jukebox boombox. My box has a slot that holds the
jukebox and supplies power to it.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the diagram below, if the transistor is saturated, there will be little
voltage drop across it, so the LED will not light. My question is: as the
C-E current diminishes, causing more voltage to be dropped across the
transistor, will the max voltage drop across the transistor be limited to
the LED's forward voltage, or will the voltage across the transistor
continue to rise, and burn out the LED?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
V+
|
>
>
>
|______
| |
| |
_|_ \| collector
_\_/_ |
| /| emitter
| |
|______|
|
V-
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another reason for replacing the flywheel can be to extend the rpm range. A
flywheel for a normal ICE is designed for rpms up to 6000-7000, beyond that
it can split ("explode"), which is really dangerous.
This of course has little to do with the weight, but most replacement
flywheels anyway tend to be lighter (than OEM), for the reasons given by Mike
(below).
Regards,
Rolf
On Thursday 12 January 2006 10:35, Mike & Paula Willmon wrote:
> The way I understand it is that a lighter flywheel (same size, lighter
> material) will have less rotational inertia. The other way to decrease the
> rotational inertia is to decrease the diameter of the steel flywheel. This
> equals less torque to spin up the flywheel and more torque to accelerate
> the vehicle. Once your are up to speed though it doesen't take any more
> power to maintain the speed of a heavier flywheel than a light one. The
> efficiency you gain would be on accelerations. One thing we shoud keep in
> mind is that without a controller that has speed limiting and without a
> speed sensor, a lighter flywheel will allow the motor to overspeed much
> faster if you miss a shift. See Jeff Shanab's prior post # 52658 and
> #52570 subj: Racing Clutch (was RE: Adapter Plate Methods) for a pics of
> the results.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of mike golub
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 12:00 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: alum flywheel?
>
>
> These guys make a bunch of alum flywheels.
> http://www.fidanza.com
>
> What is the advantage of using a lighter flywheel?
>
> I'm using a warp 9" with a manual 86 toyota pickup
> 4wd.
>
> Thanks
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have in Europe the Dacia Logan sedan which is sold 5000 to 8000 euros !
google with "logan by renault" keys
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Gliders
> On 11 Jan 2006 at 9:00, Rush wrote:
>
> > Tonight on the NBC nightly news there will be a piece about that new
> > Chinese car that will sell for under $10,000.
>
> I forget where I read it, but someone was quoted as labeling this as "a
new
> Yugo." There ^were^ a few Yugo conversions.
>
> Still, any conversion done on these cars would have to be in the car's
spirit,
> so to speak. Some people think that one reason Solectria Forces never
sold
> well is that in spite of the $30k+ price tag, they were still Geo Metros.
The
> same would apply to a $20k+ Chinese car.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> Are the contactors always breaking under full load, then, when you want to
> stop supplying power to the motor?
Not if designed properly. A good contactor controller brings the motor voltage
and current up/down step by step, so there are no large transitions. They are
arranged so no contact has to make or break full voltage or current. With the
classic 3-step controller, no contact sees more than half the pack voltage
and there are at least 3 contacts in series for every speed, so if one welds,
the others can still stop you.
However, it's tempting to cheapen a contactor controller to the point that
these rules aren't met. The ones in Citicars and golf carts had nothing to
prevent you from going from a dead stop to full speed, for example. And the
rectactor circuit minimizes the number of contactors, so if one welds you
can't turn it off.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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G'day Bill and All
Provided that the resistor is correctly selected for the voltage and LED
current, no problem.
So spill the beans, whatcha plans?
James
At 01:11 PM 12/01/06 -0700, Bill Dennis wrote:
In the diagram below, if the transistor is saturated, there will be little
voltage drop across it, so the LED will not light. My question is: as the
C-E current diminishes, causing more voltage to be dropped across the
transistor, will the max voltage drop across the transistor be limited to
the LED's forward voltage, or will the voltage across the transistor
continue to rise, and burn out the LED?
V+
|
>
>
>
|______
| |
| |
_|_ \| collector
_\_/_ |
| /| emitter
| |
|______|
|
V-
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Just voted again.
Nissan 240ZX is 3rd now, it will take some 300+ more
votes to make it #2 so both two top cars become EVs!
I bet it will take just one day for 300 list members to
come up with 300 votes today.
This is indeed a BIG winning and should change perception
of "slow" EVs...
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Datsun-1200-Timeslip-7484.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
Congrats to all,
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
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1,250A battery amps by using standard 500A shunt. Is it enough?
More (any reasonable amps really) if the shunt is custom made,
BRUSA can do it.
I think bolting together two standard 500A shunts yielding
2,500 battery amps limit is cheaper - the shunts are typically
less than $50 or so.
Victor
David Roden wrote:
They may not have a high enough current range for some folks, though.
Victor, how much current can the current-production Brusa meters handle?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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> So spill the beans, whatcha plans?
All right, but don't laugh. I'm the neo-ist of neophytes at this, so this
might not work at all. I've been toying with different ideas for TS cell
undervoltage detection. Lee provided one nice circuit using an LM10, which
would turn on an opto-isolator when any cell went undervoltage.
But also thought it might be nice to see one color LED when a battery was
above around 2.9V, and another color LED when the battery was below around
2.9V. I know that this wastes some battery power, but when the LEDs were
on, I'd know that all circuits were working. And a different color "idiot
LED" would be easy to spot when one cell fell low.
So here's a (probably faulty) circuit I've been thinking about so far:
+______ ______
| |
68 > > 100
> >
> >
Red _|_ |
1.7V _\_/_ |____________________
LED | | |
| | |
+ - - -|- - -|- - - - - - - -+ |
| | | | |
| _|_ |/ H11A817C | _|_
|1.2V_\_/_ | optocoupler | _\_/_ 2.0V Yellow LED
|LED | |\ | |
| | | | |
+ - - -|- - -|- - - - - - - -+ |
| | |
-__ ___|_____|____________________|
Bill (Circuit-Mangler) Dennis
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I did some research on this for projecting how complex
can I make a battery module (in my case single LiIon/LiP cells)
so it still worth for user to buy it. In other words
when should I stop adding features. Turn out fewer than about
1/3 of people I asked are willing to pay for protecting their
batteries more than 30% of the cost of that battery. Else
they said we'd just buy another spare battery(ies) and forget
about protection at all, keeping replacing failing ones.
So they would buy $75 module if the battery they are
protecting cost $250 or more, else they won't.
With $50 module it becomes $166 battery.
So *for these people* seem like for very top end Optimas (which
are still <$166 a piece) they still won't justify even $50 module.
The discussion was about lead acid battery where it is
desirable but still optional. For other chemistries
protection is pretty much mandatory, so it is easier to
justify spending more than half of the battery cost for
its protection.
A battery is consumable item, and the protection circuitry isn't,
so spread out BMS cost for several packs makes situation look
a bit better.
Victor
Myles Twete wrote:
You could be right... I think the price feels really high
because you and I know it can be done for so much less.
Perhaps. More likely the price feels high because it is a substantial
fraction of the cost of a battery.
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Victor and the voting masses,
Thanks for your support! I started to change the boring, unimaginative
picture of my car on my timeslip record, but I knew that might temporarily
remove my record while it went through the approval process. I'll probably
take care of it tonight, when Brooks usually handles updates. It won't
affect the vote count, and the record should be available again tomorrow.
I just noticed that there's another '90 240SX that posted a timeslip today.
Did anyone catch where it ran? None other than Moroso Motorsports Park! I
emailed the owner earlier today, and I'm hoping I can convince him to come
on out and watch Joule Injected run this Sunday. Maybe we'll get a little
"Gas vs. Electric" 240SX match going! He's got the edge on me right now, but
with the recent changes to the car, it would make for a great grudge match!
I'm going to try to take it easy on the driveline at the track this Sunday.
Most likely, I'll keep it under 1200 motor amps in series mode. Then the
following weekend at Battery Beach Burnout I'll bump up the amps a little at
a time. On the later runs we'll see just what warm batteries, higher amps,
super wide and sticky BF Goodrich drag radials, and a limited slip
differential will do to shave some time off December's run!
Shawn Waggoner and I are heading out to the track around noon on Sunday. All
other EV fans are invited!
Hope to see you there!
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
http://www.jouleinjected.com
Hobe Sound, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 4:22 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Votes - how are we doin' ?
Just voted again.
Nissan 240ZX is 3rd now, it will take some 300+ more votes to make it #2 so
both two top cars become EVs!
I bet it will take just one day for 300 list members to come up with 300
votes today.
This is indeed a BIG winning and should change perception of "slow" EVs...
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Datsun-1200-Timeslip-7484.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
Congrats to all,
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
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Hi Ricky,
Thanks for the tip, and I looked at the photos (annotations would
be helpful, at least saying what this photo is, and you need a
close-up lens or somesuch, but I do appreciate you posting them).
Strange, the pdf file for the NG1 gave me the impression that the
NG1 would have troubles putting anything more than about 8A into
my 96V pack (pdf file on zivanusa site seemed to imply it was
more a lower DC voltage charger). Yet I got the impression from
Greg that it might be closer to 10A or so, and here you are at
144V with your EV using an NG1 (at what amps?).
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricky Suiter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: After Marin ampabout, Zivan down, needs exorcism
> I'm not really familiar with Zivans other than the NG1 charger
in my GEM car, but here's something to ponder. On the NG1's they
came with a plastic fuse holder for the main power in to the unit
with a 16 amp (yes 16 amp, kind of a weird rating) ceramic fuse
in them. Well you pull ~12 amps at 120 through this and it gets
pretty hot and it's a known issue with GEM's to melt this fuse
holder, and of course mine did just that. Here's some pictures of
the destruction and repair, the fuse holder took an EMI
supression capacitor next to it out with it.
> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ricksuiter/album?.dir=fb59
> I just soldered a fuse in directly to minimize any
unnecessary resistance the fuse holder may have caused. I've
corresponded with Greg from Elcon before and if you buy one of
these chargers from him they automatically desolder the fuse
holder and solder a fuse directly to the board.
>
> Now granted when mine went poof I didn't have any strange
electrical things happen in the house, or even a tripped breaker.
>
> Chuck Hursch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My 120V Zivan K2, which had been functioning perfectly for
years,
> died last night shortly after I plugged it in. When I plugged
it
> in, it did its usual start-up sequence with the lights and all
> seemed well as I went back upstairs to my apt. As I was washing
> my dishes, I noticed that the 1/4-watt neon pilot light I have
in
> the kitchen for the 20A circuit that goes down to the carport
was
> out. Odd, I thought, that is very unusual. The microwave oven
> on that circuit is also out (no display), so it's not just a
> burnt out lightbulb. Hmmm... Yep, the circuit breaker in the
> closet is tripped. Well, gotta have power to figure out what's
> going on, so I decided to reset the breaker. Immediately heard
a
> sound that seemed like a lot of current was flowing, with a bit
> of light dimming and brightening on other circuits, but the
> circuit breaker did not re-trip. With the Zivan's normal
> soft-start, this would be a bit unexpected, although I would
> occasionally get a bit of pop and arc when I would plug the
thing
> in, I presume charging up some caps (pop would depend I think
on
> how true and quickly the plug went into the AC socket). Well,
> with somewhat heavy heart, I tromped downstairs back to the
> carport, opened the hatch and peered in. No lights, no nothing,
> no smokey smell from the Zivan, just the usual whir of the fan
> venting the rear pack enclosure. I verified pack voltage at the
> charger, and nothing else seemed amiss that would cause the
> charger to malfunction. I disconnected the charger from the
> pack, unplugged the car, and decided to implement Plan B
charging
> in the morning.
>
> Always have a backup Plan B for charging. If I did not, I would
> have a semi-discharged pack sitting for days or weeks while the
> charger is turned around (if repairable), shortening the life
of
> the pack, and making the car unusable. Plan B for me these
years
> is a 20A variac running through a full-wave bridge rectifier. I
> have used this rig for equalizing the car's traction pack many,
> many times, but I have never really done a full bulk charge. I
> thought one of these days I would try a practise run or two,
but
> never got around to it. Now I'm doing it for real, as I write
> this email. I am the servo (cranking up the knob as the pack
> voltage rises, although don't have to do that much during most
of
> the bulk charge as the voltage doesn't move much), and it is
also
> non-isolated charging (yep, the car is wet from last night's
> rain, and the floor of the carport is also damp, but I've been
> there and done that with non-isolated chargers and haven't
gotten
> hurt, just don't like it anymore).
>
> I have a call into Greg McCrea, of Electric Conversions, up in
> Sacramento, the person from whom I bought the Zivan. A live
> person on the other end of the line, a woman, answered the
phone.
> Greg is supposed to call me back. In the meantime, I pour over
> in my mind the possibilities.(and it was a somewhat sleepless
> night last night, thinking about the pack not getting it's
> nightly fill-up, and what's going on with the charger). I'm
> hoping it's nothing more than a blown rectifier that tripped
the
> circuit breaker the first time around, and maybe blew a fuse in
> the charger the second time around. My previous K&W BC-20
> charger had somewhat similar symptoms when it blew its
rectifier
> back in the late '90s, and fortunately that event took nothing
> else in the charger with it. K&W turned it around quickly and
> inexpensively, and I used that charger for another year or two
> before I sold it to another EVDL'er.
>
> So any opinions amongst you learned exorcists out there as to
> what happened with the Zivan?
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
> Later,
> Ricky
> 02 Insight
> 92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
> Glendale, AZ USA
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