EV Digest 5088
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: No Transmission Option
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Schaef Motor Sep_ex vs Series help
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Hi-Torque web site up, kinda
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Schaef Motor Sep_ex vs Series help
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: 17 Volts
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Flywheel
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: No Transmission Option
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Budget EV - contactor controllers, low cost EV's
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Votes - how are we doin' ?Keep them Coming!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: No Transmission Option
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: s10, Nobody Wants.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Need: EV repair shop
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EVForge.net Update
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Looking for some Vintage EV - Video
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Who Killed the Electric Car? 3/4 sold out
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: No Transmission Option
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Looking for some Vintage EV - Video
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Electron flow and heating
by Rhett George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Looking for some Vintage EV - Video
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 17 Volts
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: 17 Volts
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 17 Volts
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: 17 Volts
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) EV List History (was: EVForge.net Update)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Electron flow and heating
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: No Transmission Option
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: s10, Nobody Wants.
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: No Transmission Option
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: 17 Volts
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dennis and All,
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: No Transmission Option
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:58:31 -0600
>
>In reference to Seppo's comment about using a dual motor
>setup like John Waylands;
>
>Can we hear comments from the folks who have dual setups.
>Besides racing, how do they perform as an everyday driver?
>
>Looking at this option, the cost impact should be minimal.
>
>Dual motors could be smaller saving $
Yes that's especially true in my Freedom EV where 2
D+D ES-22's (A-89) motors cost less that an 8" with the
added benefit of much more starting totque from the same
controller size and more brush, heat disipation area for my
longer ranges, higher speeds at the same or less weight.
>No transmission adapter to have fabricated, although would
>have to add cost of coupling motors together.
If one can mount them inline that coupling cost is
very low and even with a cog belt, much cheaper than an
adaptor, ect and less weight.
>No need to rebuild transmission, new clutch, new pressure
>plate. Also no future repairs on these items.
>Savings on space and weight.
This is a big saving in both, about 100 lbs without
transmission and $1,000 all up. Also the eff, less battery
needs because of the lower friction, weight lowers costs
even more or increases range as I'm going for..
>
>What am I missing?
Smaller controller for the same torque and more
contactors or big diodes to do the series/parallel. Though
for me buying these in quanity won't be a big deal. Much
less than a larger controller.
HTH"s,
Jerry Dycus
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Dennis
>Elsberry, MO
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1/13/06, Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I bought a 36V 15" x 6.7" Schaef motor part# 7600064 used on a Hyster pump
> and was
> told it was a series wound motor so I bought an EV-100 control with it for
> use in a 1800lb
> 72V zev Cushman. Warfield reworked the motor (replaced bearings/brushes
> turned
> comm for $325. I hooked it up and not much happened. Turns out the field
> measured
> 7MH .9 ohms so it is really a SEPEX motor.
Unlucky.
Sounds more like shunt to me - hydraulic pump motors are often shunt
wound too. You could maybe run it as sepex though, if you can find a
suitable controller.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks great Jim.
Keep it coming.
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: jerry halstead [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 7:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hi-Torque web site up, kinda
Hi Jim,
Hey, congrats on the nice site and kudos to Chris!
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
On Jan 13, 2006, at 1:12 AM, Jim Husted wrote:
> Hey all
>
> Thanks to Chris Robison, the site is taking shape. I was able to
> upload some pics I've taken that I was unable to put on the old site
> as I had filled it. The Utah State Snowmoble and the Stinger are two
> new albums. I also through some misc. pics to exsisting albums. The
> site should prove to be much easier for dial up
> members with out ads popping up and the better use of thumbnails.
> There is still alot to do but I thought I'd let everyone know that
> there are some new pics up and I'll try to post as often as I can as
> projects and general issues and questions arise. I get a fair amount
> of private e-mails with kind words. I still consider myself a new
> member here and I am trying to immitate the actions and openess of the
> charter members who make this a true treasure. I look forward to my
> continuing membership to team EV and the EVDL.
> Hope you enjoy the new site.
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
> www.hitorqueelectric.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The critical thing you must do is insure the shunt
field winding
never looses power when the EV100 is powering the
armature, otherwise the EV100 will pretty much see a
direct short with no field.
You also want to make sure the field is powered first
giving 30mS delay before powering the armature.
If you want higher speeds you'll need something to
weaken the field. If you want turbo boost just put a
resistor in parallel with the field using a contactor.
Or you could make it multiple step FW like they do on
the GE ElecTrac (you have an E15 don't you?)
If all else fails I have a GE automotive Sepex control
in a gray metal box. We sold some of these back in
1995-1996 for Automotive conversions.
Rod
--- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I bought a 36V 15" x 6.7" Schaef motor part# 7600064
> used on a Hyster pump and was told it was a series
> wound motor so I bought an EV-100 control with it
> for use in a 1800lb 72V zev Cushman. Warfield
> reworked the motor (replaced bearings/brushes turned
> comm for $325. I hooked it up and not much
> happened. Turns out the field measured 7MH .9 ohms
> so it is really a SEPEX motor. Warfield here in
> Roanoke, VA said they can't put in series coils so
> I'm wondering how to control this. Can I operate
> the EV100 control directly to the armature and
> connect the field through a resistor to 72V? OR
> just connect the armature & field in parallel and
> operate that way?
>
> I probably would need to add a failsafe field
> current detect circuit so if a wire pops off on the
> field, the control shuts down. I'm looking for a
> simple solution as I want to get this up and running
> as quickly as possible. Warfield headquarters in
> ILL said they could rewind the field for a series
> wound motor if all else fails, but since the Cushman
> is direct drive, I need the starting torque.
>
> Thanks, Mark
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The reason I ask is that I was wondering if it would be possible to power
the car's 12V system with Li-ion cells instead of a PbA battery. The
problem is that if you use 4 Li-ions, then fully charged they will be
between 16V - 17V, dropping down to around 12V near full discharge. I think
that when real power is drawn from them, they will be at around 3.9V per
cell max, so 15.6V.
But if you use 3 Li-ions, then the voltage is a little too low.
So for 4 cells, would one option be to just charge them to 3.9V per cell and
lose a little capacity?
Any other options, like a DC-DC converter?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 17 Volts
Bill Dennis wrote:
> Will a car's 12V system tolerate a voltage as high as 17V?
Briefly; VERY briefly!
The alternator in a normal ICE car is very slow to respond to load changes.
If
it is running at full output and something causes the load to suddenly go
away, the alternator's output voltage can spike up to 40v or so for as much
as a tenth of a second.
This is called a "load dump", and can happen if you have a loose battery
terminal, or jump-start another car, or something momentarily shorts the 12v
buss and a fuse blows, or some very heavy load (like an electric power
steering motor) turns off.
Since it is relatively common, all car electrical equipment has to be built
to
survive a load dump. If it isn't, it's going to DIE someday if/when the
dreaded load dump occurs!
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 13, 2006, at 12:21 AM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Good way to make money (for a shop) ;-)
It will take you about 1 min of your time to remove the
ring gear with angle grinder - in Hondas at least it is
usually tight fit, no welds, + 3 screws preventing rotation
and holding it from sliding off the edge. I suspect many
cars have similar design.
I just thought I'd mention here that stock air-cooled VW flywheels are
one piece of metal. You have to grind off the teeth, or you have to
purchase a racing flywheel that was made without them, or you have to
make your own.
As far as I know, anyway. I'm definitely not an expert.
See Jay Donnaway's blog for more info on air-cooled VW flywheels:
<http://karmanneclectric.blogspot.com/2005/12/flock-of-flywheels.html>
So cut it through at one point and it falls off. Done that.
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/fly2c.jpg
Victor
mike golub wrote:
OK I guess $300 for a new alum flywheel that will give
another 1/4 mile of range sounds expensive.
I called one local shop that wants $20 to remove the
ring gear.
Is that OK. Supposedly they are just spot welded on.
Will it still be balanced enough?
thanks
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This option is least
expensive when using a rear drive. Otherwise you need to use a transmission
of some sort or make up a gear reduction on a front drive. I bet it'd be
hard. Nobody has done it yet. Technically possible but seems it would be
easier to just use a tranny. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 4:58 AM
Subject: No Transmission Option
In reference to Seppo's comment about using a dual motor setup like John
Waylands;
Can we hear comments from the folks who have dual setups.
Besides racing, how do they perform as an everyday driver?
Looking at this option, the cost impact should be minimal.
Dual motors could be smaller saving $
No transmission adapter to have fabricated, although would have to add
cost
of coupling motors together.
No need to rebuild transmission, new clutch, new pressure plate. Also no
future repairs on these items.
Savings on space and weight.
What am I missing?
Any thoughts?
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It seems to me that the contactor system is hard on the clutch and
transmission. Especially a single contactor. But kind of fun
learning how to drive it ....
25+ years ago I had a karman ghia with a 3 contactor system and it
seemed better than one .
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> I happen to have two nice series traction motors from a forklift.
If using
> these with a contactor controller it seems to be a big advantage
going
> series to parallel. This would double your speeds. Since they
cost me
> nothing but my time salvaging them they would seem to make a very
cost
> effective & powerful combo with a contactor controller.. Lawrence
> Rhodes.........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 10:30 AM
> Subject: Re: Budget EV - contactor controllers, low cost EV's
>
>
> > Tim wrote:
> >> It's possible to save even a little more money. If using the
original
> >> manual transmission and clutch, this will give yourself
additional speeds
> >> and you can then eliminate the starting resistor... just select
36 or 72
> >> volts via the 2 speed electric contactor controller and let the
clutch
> >> out
> >> slowly in first gear like you do on a gasser then once you
cannot
> >> accelerate any further then shift to second gear, then third,
etc till
> >> you
> >> obtain your desired mph. With a 5 speed tranny you can have a
possible
> >> 10
> >> speeds.
> >
> > This works, but just barely. They did it this way on the old
U.S.
> > Electricar
> > Lectric Leopards. The motor starts with a pretty violent "lurch"
without a
> > starting resistor. It's pretty hard on things (both the car and
driver).
> >
> > I would strongly recommend at least 3 speeds (with the first
having a
> > starting
> > resistor) as the minimum for a contactor controller.
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All;
Just clicked my 3 votes this AM. How heartwarming to see the EV's in the
top 5!
Seeya at BBB
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 5:03 PM
Subject: RE: Votes - how are we doin' ?
> Victor and the voting masses,
>
> Thanks for your support! I started to change the boring, unimaginative
> picture of my car on my timeslip record, but I knew that might temporarily
> remove my record while it went through the approval process. I'll probably
> take care of it tonight, when Brooks usually handles updates. It won't
> affect the vote count, and the record should be available again tomorrow.
>
> I just noticed that there's another '90 240SX that posted a timeslip
today.
> Did anyone catch where it ran? None other than Moroso Motorsports Park! I
> emailed the owner earlier today, and I'm hoping I can convince him to come
> on out and watch Joule Injected run this Sunday. Maybe we'll get a little
> "Gas vs. Electric" 240SX match going! He's got the edge on me right now,
but
> with the recent changes to the car, it would make for a great grudge
match!
>
Sounds like fun! It's always great to see the EV run away from the
gasser at the 'tree!
> I'm going to try to take it easy on the driveline at the track this
Sunday.
> Most likely, I'll keep it under 1200 motor amps in series mode. Then the
> following weekend at Battery Beach Burnout I'll bump up the amps a little
at
> a time. On the later runs we'll see just what warm batteries, higher amps,
> super wide and sticky BF Goodrich drag radials, and a limited slip
> differential will do to shave some time off December's run!
>
Don't break anything that ya can't fix, quick at the trak<g>!
> Shawn Waggoner and I are heading out to the track around noon on Sunday.
All
> other EV fans are invited!
>
> Hope to see you there!
>
> Matt Graham
> 300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
> http://www.jouleinjected.com
> Hobe Sound, FL
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 4:22 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Votes - how are we doin' ?
>
> Just voted again.
>
> Nissan 240ZX is 3rd now, it will take some 300+ more votes to make it #2
so
> both two top cars become EVs!
>
> I bet it will take just one day for 300 list members to come up with 300
> votes today.
>
> This is indeed a BIG winning and should change perception of "slow" EVs...
HERE ARE THE LINKS! GO FOR IT!
>
> http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
> http://www.dragtimes.com/Datsun-1200-Timeslip-7484.html
> http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
>
> Congrats to all,
>
> Victor
>
> --
>
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What am I missing?
Any thoughts?
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
Reverse, although this can be accomplished with a reversing contactor set.
No failsafe mechanical way to disconnect the drivetrain in case of a full on
failure. This is not a problem if you have properly rated and installed
electrical disconnects.
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Drone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: s10
> Wow I just did want to see it go to the crusher. I never thought it
> would be selling for over $7000.00. And to think that nobody had bid
> on it till this past Tuesday. Wow.
> Patrick A Drone
> Props Artisan/ Welder
> Ypsilanti, MI
>
> Hi Pat an' All;
Go's to show ya, Nobody wants EV's Just like General Murders said<g>!
Seeya at BBB
Bob
> On Jan 11, 2006, at 11:57 PM, torich1 wrote:
>
> >
> > Better hurry on this one...looks in good shape
> >
> >
> > http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=756819&convertTo=USD
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My thanks to all the emailed me directly with your good ideas and
thoughts.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Evan Tuer wrote:
I think I've been on it since about 1996? I probably even have
messages stored from back that far, but on increasingly ancient
computers :)
I'd like to hear the history too.
Well, I checked, and it looks like the archive I have goes back to 1993!
Now I can't wait to get it all imported :D
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Love the movie trailer to " EV -Confidential - Who Killed the Electric
Car" Now, would LOVE to get a copy of the ORIGINAL GM EV1 Ad.
done (I think) by Lucas Light and Magic.... You know the one where all
the electric appliances hop out into the street, and the voice over
comes in...." The ELECTRIC car has arrived" (or something like that)
I really THOUGHT I had a copy... but sifting through countless hours of
old EV video from the early 90's I can not find it.
I know there is a little POSTAGE STAMP size video on the Web, but it can
hardly be viewed. So I am looking for a full screen VHS copy.
Will $$ Pay a reasonable fee for the copy...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've seen the last cut of the movie and loved it.
Chris has added some changes to it since then. He has
added some time lapse of me doing my spitfire
conversion. It's some really cool footage shot on a
rotating camera arm. He also wants to add some
interview footage with me in the final cut that goes
to Sony. He say's he wants me to be part of his happy
ending. How cool is that? I hope the happy ending
gives the conversion business a good kick in the
pants.
Gadget
I checked into buying tickets to "Who Killed the
Electric Car?" It is showing at Robert Redford's
Sundance film festival. For presales, 3 out of 4
showings are sold out. I'm hoping I can get tickets
after the presale period or by just showing up and
hoping for some no-shows. If anyone on the list is
going please give a movie review after you see it.
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
if you has a 4wd vehicle couldn't you put one motor in
the front, and one in the rear?
And the rear one could be used fro reverse?
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> This option is least
> expensive when using a rear drive. Otherwise you
> need to use a transmission
> of some sort or make up a gear reduction on a front
> drive. I bet it'd be
> hard. Nobody has done it yet. Technically possible
> but seems it would be
> easier to just use a tranny. Lawrence
> Rhodes....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pestka, Dennis J"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 4:58 AM
> Subject: No Transmission Option
>
>
> >
> > In reference to Seppo's comment about using a dual
> motor setup like John
> > Waylands;
> >
> > Can we hear comments from the folks who have dual
> setups.
> > Besides racing, how do they perform as an everyday
> driver?
> >
> > Looking at this option, the cost impact should be
> minimal.
> >
> > Dual motors could be smaller saving $
> > No transmission adapter to have fabricated,
> although would have to add
> > cost
> > of coupling motors together.
> > No need to rebuild transmission, new clutch, new
> pressure plate. Also no
> > future repairs on these items.
> > Savings on space and weight.
> >
> > What am I missing?
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Dennis
> > Elsberry, MO
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
Sorry, I don't have a video to sell but for those of you who would like
to see the small web video it's located here...
http://www.kingoftheroad.net/charge_across_america/charge_html/
goodies.html
Yes, the EV Confidential trailer is great. Would love to hear some
reviews from the lucky Sundance audience!
-Dave
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com
On Jan 13, 2006, at 12:53 PM, Steven Lough wrote:
Love the movie trailer to " EV -Confidential - Who Killed the Electric
Car" Now, would LOVE to get a copy of the ORIGINAL GM EV1 Ad.
done (I think) by Lucas Light and Magic.... You know the one where
all the electric appliances hop out into the street, and the voice
over
comes in...." The ELECTRIC car has arrived" (or something like that)
I really THOUGHT I had a copy... but sifting through countless hours
of old EV video from the early 90's I can not find it.
I know there is a little POSTAGE STAMP size video on the Web, but it
can hardly be viewed. So I am looking for a full screen VHS copy.
Will $$ Pay a reasonable fee for the copy...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
- Greetings -
If this subject has been exhausted as far as you are concerned, please go
to the next item.
Electrons move from one end of a conductor to the other as the result of
an attractive electric field (drift) or as a result of charge density dif-
ferences (diffusion). In the process of moving, the electron acquires a
velocity and, with that, kinetic energy. In a transistor it moves thru
the base and base-collector region (BJT) or thru the channel (FET) with
little interference. When it reaches the collector or drain, it must slow
down to the velocity of all the other electrons. The kinetic energy must
be given up as heat. Ordinarily the collector or drain of the transistor
is connected tot he metal tab or metal case for best efficiency in getting
rid of the heat to the heat sink.
In a motor brush made of carbon, clay, and soft copper granules, the path
from one end to the other is anything but easy. The electron bangs into
with some kinetic energy in an inelastic collision and gives up some of
its energy in the form of heat. It goes to the next bit of brush where
the same thing happens again. The velocity is never very high. Therefore
the kinetic energy to be given up when the electron reaches the commutator
is only a bit higher than that given up along the path.
That the energy given up along the path is uniform if the path is uniform
can be seen by looking at the heated coil of an automotive cigarette lighter.
Cheers,
Rhett
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Contact Marvin Rush. He either is responsible for that one or he knows who
is. You can probably contact him through the EV1 Owners Club. He was
involved somehow in the Star Trek series of shows and he was so upset with
the poor marketing of the EV1 by General Motors that he produced his own
commercial and had it played on TV. GM was so embarrassed that they finally
bought it from him. Guerilla tactics. We need much more of this! I guess the
vote thing on Drag Times is kind of like that.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" <[email protected]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:53 AM
Subject: Looking for some Vintage EV - Video
Love the movie trailer to " EV -Confidential - Who Killed the Electric
Car" Now, would LOVE to get a copy of the ORIGINAL GM EV1 Ad. done
(I think) by Lucas Light and Magic.... You know the one where all the
electric appliances hop out into the street, and the voice over
comes in...." The ELECTRIC car has arrived" (or something like that)
I really THOUGHT I had a copy... but sifting through countless hours of
old EV video from the early 90's I can not find it.
I know there is a little POSTAGE STAMP size video on the Web, but it can
hardly be viewed. So I am looking for a full screen VHS copy.
Will $$ Pay a reasonable fee for the copy...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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Bill Dennis wrote:
> The reason I ask is that I was wondering if it would be possible to power
> the car's 12V system with Li-ion cells instead of a PbA battery.
Why do you want to use such an expensive battery for this purpose?
If there's a DC/DC converter or alternator, the lead-acid battery just
functions as a big cheap capacitor. It delivers the brief starting current
when the headlights turn on or a motor starts. When parked, it supplies the
low keep-alive current for the clock and radio presets. And if the car breaks
down, it powers the emergency flashers for a while. A reliable DC/DC and big
capacitor can do all this.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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I've got 4 spare 90Ah Li-ions, so I'm looking for good way to use them.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 17 Volts
Bill Dennis wrote:
> The reason I ask is that I was wondering if it would be possible to power
> the car's 12V system with Li-ion cells instead of a PbA battery.
Why do you want to use such an expensive battery for this purpose?
If there's a DC/DC converter or alternator, the lead-acid battery just
functions as a big cheap capacitor. It delivers the brief starting current
when the headlights turn on or a motor starts. When parked, it supplies the
low keep-alive current for the clock and radio presets. And if the car
breaks
down, it powers the emergency flashers for a while. A reliable DC/DC and big
capacitor can do all this.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
No cap's going to be good for keeping emergency flashers going.
Probably won't keep radio presets for very long either. At least not
until you get into the Ultracap type, which is pretty darn expensive.
Danny
Bill Dennis wrote:
If there's a DC/DC converter or alternator, the lead-acid battery just
functions as a big cheap capacitor. It delivers the brief starting current
when the headlights turn on or a motor starts. When parked, it supplies the
low keep-alive current for the clock and radio presets. And if the car
breaks
down, it powers the emergency flashers for a while. A reliable DC/DC and big
capacitor can do all this.
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--- Begin Message ---
Oh you're taking about while the DC/DC is still online... nevermind. Duh.
Danny
Danny Miller wrote:
No cap's going to be good for keeping emergency flashers going.
Probably won't keep radio presets for very long either. At least not
until you get into the Ultracap type, which is pretty darn expensive.
Danny
Bill Dennis wrote:
If there's a DC/DC converter or alternator, the lead-acid battery just
functions as a big cheap capacitor. It delivers the brief starting
current when the headlights turn on or a motor starts. When parked,
it supplies the low keep-alive current for the clock and radio
presets. And if the car
breaks down, it powers the emergency flashers for a while. A reliable
DC/DC and big
capacitor can do all this.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 13 Jan 2006 at 3:32, Lightning Ryan wrote:
> Does anyone know when this whole EVDL thing got started?
I don't have all the details, but I can tell you that the EV list is 15
years old. Clyde Visser started it in 1991. This was long before Yahoo
Groups, indeed long before Egroups and Yahoo.
In fact the EV list effectively predates the web itself. In 1991, email,
ftp, and gopher were still the face the internet presented to most users.
Proposals for the web date back to 1989, but it wasn't until May of 1991
that CERN Labs in Switzerland built the first functional internal network
using html and http. CERN announced the system and released the files in
August of 1991. Mosaic (the first graphical web browser) wasn't released
until early 1993 (in pre-Beta).
So there is some merit to the argument that a mailing list is an old
fashioned way to communicate.
But then, so are telephones. There are many other voice communication
methods available now, but many people still prefer land lines, just as many
people still prefer email to some other methods of information sharing and
banking.
And look what's happened to telephones. They're wireless, cordless; they
record; they have video. Portions use satellite and fiber. All of these
things are extensions, not replacements, of the original copper network. By
building onto the original system, the huge core of users has been gradually
brought into the 21st century, and not left out. You may have long since
given up your land line for exclusive use of a cellular phone, but you can
still talk to Grandma on her 1959-vintage Western Electric desk phone - and
she can still call you using her rotary dial. (And she still sounds better
on that phone than you do on yours. ;-)
Similarly, I would argue that the way to extend the EV community's core
strengths is to build the more sophisticated information exchange systems
around the EV list, as extensions of it. We've been doing some of that for
years now, using links to websites and ftp sites. The EVforge idea is an
intriguing possibility; we'll see what it adds. No doubt more extensions
will develop in the coming months and years.
Getting back to the EV list history, I can't speak for the earliest years;
my involvement with the list dates back to about mid-1994. But I can tell
you that in those days, 50 posts was a BIG day; most days, around 15 to 25
posts crossed.
Some other current members who were active then and/or joined in about the
same timeframe would be Lee Hart, Otmar Ebenhoech, and Bruce Parmentier. We
also had occasional contributions from Randy Holmquist, Bob Wing, Michael
Bianchi, Paul Compton, Gail Lucas, and probably some others I can't think of
at the moment (you know who you are). It'd be interesting to learn who
among the current active members was the first to join.
BTW, I've archived almost every message that's crossed since I joined the
list. Regrettably, I stored most of the early material on floppy discs,
which are now partly unreadable. From 2000, my archives are almost 100%
complete.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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Amazing. Is this what they teach in universities these days?
Victor
Rhett George wrote:
- Greetings -
If this subject has been exhausted as far as you are concerned, please go
to the next item.
Electrons move from one end of a conductor to the other as the result of
an attractive electric field (drift) or as a result of charge density dif-
ferences (diffusion). In the process of moving, the electron acquires a
velocity and, with that, kinetic energy. In a transistor it moves thru
the base and base-collector region (BJT) or thru the channel (FET) with
little interference. When it reaches the collector or drain, it must slow
down to the velocity of all the other electrons. The kinetic energy must
be given up as heat. Ordinarily the collector or drain of the transistor
is connected tot he metal tab or metal case for best efficiency in getting
rid of the heat to the heat sink.
In a motor brush made of carbon, clay, and soft copper granules, the path
from one end to the other is anything but easy. The electron bangs into
with some kinetic energy in an inelastic collision and gives up some of
its energy in the form of heat. It goes to the next bit of brush where
the same thing happens again. The velocity is never very high. Therefore
the kinetic energy to be given up when the electron reaches the commutator
is only a bit higher than that given up along the path.
That the energy given up along the path is uniform if the path is uniform
can be seen by looking at the heated coil of an automotive cigarette lighter.
Cheers,
Rhett
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon henry wrote:
What am I missing?
Any thoughts?
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
Reverse, although this can be accomplished with a reversing contactor
set. No failsafe mechanical way to disconnect the drivetrain in case of
a full on failure. This is not a problem if you have properly rated and
installed electrical disconnects.
damon
Dennis,
If you're missing easy electrical reverse with no extra parts
and peace of mind of never failing full on, you're missing AC drive.
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
I do beleive that bidding was not open until tuesday. To bad Reno is so far
from there, would have liked to had a whack at it as well!
Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Drone"
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: s10
> Wow I just did want to see it go to the crusher. I never thought it
> would be selling for over $7000.00. And to think that nobody had bid
> on it till this past Tuesday. Wow.
> Patrick A Drone
> Props Artisan/ Welder
> Ypsilanti, MI
>
> Hi Pat an' All;
Go's to show ya, Nobody wants EV's Just like General Murders said!
Seeya at BBB
Bob
> On Jan 11, 2006, at 11:57 PM, torich1 wrote:
>
> >
> > Better hurry on this one...looks in good shape
> >
> >
> > http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=756819&convertTo=USD
> >
> >
> >
>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon henry wrote:
What am I missing?
Any thoughts?
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
Reverse, although this can be accomplished with a reversing contactor
set. No failsafe mechanical way to disconnect the drivetrain in case of
a full on failure. This is not a problem if you have properly rated and
installed electrical disconnects.
damon
Dennis,
If you're missing electrical reverse with no extra parts
and peace of mind of never failing full on, you're missing AC drive.
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd go to a higher voltage with a regulator. Easier on the car plus
it'll reduce the current through the Li batteries. I've seen several
high power regulators designed for the high power stereo types
advertised on the net. I think that Jacobs Electronics is one
company. That PWM kit that I posted a reference to yesterday would
also work with a larger pass transistor(s).
John
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 08:39:29 -0700, "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>The reason I ask is that I was wondering if it would be possible to power
>the car's 12V system with Li-ion cells instead of a PbA battery. The
>problem is that if you use 4 Li-ions, then fully charged they will be
>between 16V - 17V, dropping down to around 12V near full discharge. I think
>that when real power is drawn from them, they will be at around 3.9V per
>cell max, so 15.6V.
>
>But if you use 3 Li-ions, then the voltage is a little too low.
>
>So for 4 cells, would one option be to just charge them to 3.9V per cell and
>lose a little capacity?
>
>Any other options, like a DC-DC converter?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bill Dennis
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Lee Hart
>Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:19 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: 17 Volts
>
>Bill Dennis wrote:
>> Will a car's 12V system tolerate a voltage as high as 17V?
>
>Briefly; VERY briefly!
>
>The alternator in a normal ICE car is very slow to respond to load changes.
>If
>it is running at full output and something causes the load to suddenly go
>away, the alternator's output voltage can spike up to 40v or so for as much
>as a tenth of a second.
>
>This is called a "load dump", and can happen if you have a loose battery
>terminal, or jump-start another car, or something momentarily shorts the 12v
>
>buss and a fuse blows, or some very heavy load (like an electric power
>steering motor) turns off.
>
>Since it is relatively common, all car electrical equipment has to be built
>to
>survive a load dump. If it isn't, it's going to DIE someday if/when the
>dreaded load dump occurs!
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
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