EV Digest 5091
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Budget EV - motor mount and coupler
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Where can I get a high voltage switch? 48+
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Looking for some Vintage EV - Video
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) '1972 Datsun 1200 Electric'
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Looking for some Vintage EV - Video
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) power steering
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: power steering
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: power steering
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Finding ground faults
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Finding ground faults
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Looking for some Vintage EV - Video
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Looking for some Vintage EV - Video
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Looking for some Vintage EV - Video
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Finding ground faults
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Finding ground faults
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Basic LED Question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Mk3 Regs
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Joe Sixpack de-lurks: re budget Geo Metro EV
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Looking for some Vintage EV - Video
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Dual Motor Mounts and Adaptors
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) DC motor overhaul
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Motor Question
by Stefan Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: After Marin ampabout, Zivan down, needs exorcism
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I find that I do not have to engage the idle control that much. In 1st gear or
reversed my overall ratio is over 20:1. It takes very little initial movement
of the EV to bring all the pump pressures up, power steering, vacuum pump and
excitation of a alternator.
When I come to a stop for less than 30 seconds, I still have all the operating
systems.
If a stop is more than 30 seconds, there is still no problem, just press the
accelerator, the rpm comes up to 200 to 300 rpm which for me is only 2 mph and
I'm back in operation.
I have my GE motor and transmission in maintenance, using a temporary Warp 9
with a standard in the EV. This time, I replacing the transmission with a
Circlematic transmission that does not used a torque converter. It uses a front
pump drive kit which is a shaft that is connected to the motor adapter and
plugs into the front transmission pump or use a non-functional torque converter
that also direct drives the transmission pump.
Its is cheaper to buy a new transmission, than to get the old one overhaul.
Source of supply is Jeg's . Com
It has a value body that can be control with a clutch pedal kit. You depress
the pedal, place the transmission in gear, ease out the pedal and line pressure
is released.
Or if you already a a clutch pedal in your EV, than you can connect the linkage
or cable drive to the transmission.
I won't have that little hesitation at start up, but sometimes I do not notice
it.
If you used your automatic as is, a idle stop will have to be install. I find
a electric door lock solenoid works good. It has more throw and it withstand
the spring on the accelerator pot box. I have it push against a small cam that
I can adjust which pushes against the Curtis accelerator arm.
I find I used the idle control for parallel parking only, not for any other
driving.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Budget EV - motor mount and coupler
From: jmygann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> Thinking of converting a geo metro automatic.
> Remove automatic and replace with manual trans for a clutchless system?
> OR better to keep the automatic ?
If it's a budget conversion, I'd say keep the automatic. Let the electric
motor idle,
just as it would with the ICE. Use a motor with a rear shaft, so you can put
a pulley
on it and drive the old alternator and other accessories (air conditioner,
etc.).
Idling wastes a little power; it will generally draw 1-2 amps from the
propulsion pack
when stopped. This is low enough that you could leave it idling for a day or
two
before it discharged the pack.
Automatics that don't have a locking torque converter are a little less
efficient, so
they will cost you 10% or so in range. I don't know if Geos have one or not.
If these two limitations are ok, then go with it!
>D&D or ADC motor
Either is good. The D&D seems to be a bit better quality, but I haven't used
them
personally.
> Alltrax 7245 48 Volts 40 mph
This will work, but is really undersized for even a Geo Metro. The problem
with running
a controller right at its rated voltage and current is that it won't last
lon. A few years if
you're lucky, a year or less if you're not!
>Who makes an adapter / motor mount / coupler?
They are all custom made, and thus expensive. Sources include Electro
Automotive,
KTA Services, EVParts, Canadian EVs, etc. You're paying some machinist
$100/hour for a few hours work. It costs $500 or so, but you know it works,
If you are reasonably handy with tools, you can also make it yourself on a
"cut to fit"
basis. It is tedious without a milling machine and all the precision gauges,
but
can still be done. Steve Clunn (you'll see him on the EV list) is a master of
this.
Good luck!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:28 AM 14/01/06 -0800, John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
<snipped an excellent practical demonstration of BEMF>
If the diode isn't the right value, it can do its job too well, and as it
recirculates the coil's energy it makes the contactor have a lazy drop-out
action...
G'day All
A former mentor (and really smart guy - Union Carbide had him as plant
Instrument/Control Engineer through most of the 1960s in Melbourne) told me
of the "headache" that he had where there was a relay that was operating
from 5kVDC. The control relay was dying every few months, so they tried
everything they could think of (late 1960s, so better transistors,
alternative hardware & methods are available today).
Transistor/ snubber diode = 5 min (!) to drop out
Transistor/ any other type of snubbing = transistor failiure
After many tests and trials they ended back at a relay contact. 5 min
drop-out time is a bit of an extreme illustration, but makes the point.
Closer to "home" someone on this list reported a year or two ago of
problems with a heater contactor, IIRC they were powering the contactor
from the blower motor power line, but removing the 12V feed didn't
immediately remove the 12VDC from the coil, since the motor generated as it
ran down, ramping down the voltage on the heater element contactor coil
(zorch).
Hope this helps
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob and Steve,
EVA/DC does in fact have a video of the EV-1 commercial. As Bob
mentioned we showed it at our Holiday Party in December. It was cool
seeing all the appliances hobbling their way to the street to catch a
glimpse of the EV-1. Great commercial, but really sad in retrospect. I
think we actually have two versions of the commercial on tape. One
version, at GM's request, didn't show the EV-1 that much. I think that
is what Dave said but I can't really remember. I had a few that night.
We have our January EVA/DC meeting this Tuesday. So I will ask if we
can get a copy of the tape made and sent to Steve. As a matter of fact
I will set Dave Goldstein and Steve up so they can work out the details
directly. Maybe someone in our club has a tape to tape recorder or tape
to DVD recorder or if Steve doesn't mind paying to have a copy made.
I'll see you all at the BBB race this coming Friday and Saturday. I'll
be hauling down 60 NEDRA Battery Beach Burnout T-shirts fresh off the
press.
Chip Gribben
EVA/DC Webmaster
http://www.evadc.org
NEDRA Webmaster/Merchandise Director
http://www.nedra.com
Love the movie trailer to " EV -Confidential - Who Killed the Electric
Car" Now, would LOVE to get a copy of the ORIGINAL GM EV1 Ad.
done
(I think) by Lucas Light and Magic.... You know the one where all the
electric appliances hop out into the street, and the voice over
comes in...." The ELECTRIC car has arrived" (or something like that)
Hi All;
The EAA of DC guyz have a copy. When I was at their Christmas
Dinner
gettogetherr SOMEbody dragged a vid of it out. It was great! the car
ariving
on the street, ALL the E appliances, EVen toasters, hobbled out to
greet it.
Was THAT Marvin's ad? The EV-1 Fanclub" Driving the Future" had a few
radio
spots to download and listen to, YEARS ago. THEY were great. "Imagine a
car
that doesn't need gas, smogged, water, oil, on and on, then "It is here,
now, at your Saturn Dealer, today...the EV-1" Remember that one. All
this
history will bring tears to your eyes, especially if you ever DROVE one,
EVen just around the block.They woulda outsold Hummers, had they been
offered! H2- H3 s and all their ilk.
The EV-1 Fanclub would be hugh! BTW Thanks Dave for the List
History,
that SOMEBODY has saved it all. Maybe someday, after EV's are common,
History Channel would want to dig through the archives. Maybe not as
thoueoughly as , say, Titanic Geeks, How many beers ,eggs, and pounds of
butter was put aboard, before she sailed. But historical stuff over the
years. When I signed up, in 98-or99 it was pretty quiet. Ten , twenty
messages a day.John Wayland was very active back then.My old computer
may
still have some early stuff on it, still? Haven't junked it yet.Back to
the
story;
Dave Goldstein? Got yur ears on? WHO hada copy in EAA DC.?
Seeya at BBB
Bob
I really THOUGHT I had a copy... but sifting through countless hours of
old EV video from the early 90's I can not find it.
I know there is a little POSTAGE STAMP size video on the Web, but it can
hardly be viewed. So I am looking for a full screen VHS copy.
Will $$ Pay a reasonable fee for the copy...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
I just couldn't resist sharing the moment...right now, 3:35 pm west
coast time, at the DragTimes.com website, the vote count number for
White Zombie is at 1972, so the entire line reads '1972 Datsun 1200
Electric'...exactly correct as both my electric Datsun 1200s are in
fact, 1972 models!
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So how do I get a BBB T-shirt?
I don't plan on going (although I will be at the
Motor and Drives Expo in Miami on Feb 15-16)
Thanks,
Rod
--- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Bob and Steve,
>
> EVA/DC does in fact have a video of the EV-1
> commercial. As Bob
> mentioned we showed it at our Holiday Party in
> December. It was cool
> seeing all the appliances hobbling their way to the
> street to catch a
> glimpse of the EV-1. Great commercial, but really
> sad in retrospect. I
> think we actually have two versions of the
> commercial on tape. One
> version, at GM's request, didn't show the EV-1 that
> much. I think that
> is what Dave said but I can't really remember. I had
> a few that night.
>
> We have our January EVA/DC meeting this Tuesday. So
> I will ask if we
> can get a copy of the tape made and sent to Steve.
> As a matter of fact
> I will set Dave Goldstein and Steve up so they can
> work out the details
> directly. Maybe someone in our club has a tape to
> tape recorder or tape
> to DVD recorder or if Steve doesn't mind paying to
> have a copy made.
>
> I'll see you all at the BBB race this coming Friday
> and Saturday. I'll
> be hauling down 60 NEDRA Battery Beach Burnout
> T-shirts fresh off the
> press.
>
> Chip Gribben
> EVA/DC Webmaster
> http://www.evadc.org
> NEDRA Webmaster/Merchandise Director
> http://www.nedra.com
>
>
> Love the movie trailer to " EV -Confidential - Who
> Killed the Electric
> Car" Now, would LOVE to get a copy of the
> ORIGINAL GM EV1 Ad.
> done
> (I think) by Lucas Light and Magic.... You know
> the one where all the
> electric appliances hop out into the street, and the
> voice over
> comes in...." The ELECTRIC car has arrived" (or
> something like that)
> Hi All;
>
> The EAA of DC guyz have a copy. When I was
> at their Christmas
> Dinner
> gettogetherr SOMEbody dragged a vid of it out. It
> was great! the car
> ariving
> on the street, ALL the E appliances, EVen toasters,
> hobbled out to
> greet it.
> Was THAT Marvin's ad? The EV-1 Fanclub" Driving the
> Future" had a few
> radio
> spots to download and listen to, YEARS ago. THEY
> were great. "Imagine a
> car
>
>
>
>
> that doesn't need gas, smogged, water, oil, on and
> on, then "It is here,
> now, at your Saturn Dealer, today...the EV-1"
> Remember that one. All
> this
> history will bring tears to your eyes, especially if
> you ever DROVE one,
> EVen just around the block.They woulda outsold
> Hummers, had they been
> offered! H2- H3 s and all their ilk.
>
> The EV-1 Fanclub would be hugh! BTW Thanks Dave
> for the List
> History,
> that SOMEBODY has saved it all. Maybe someday, after
> EV's are common,
> History Channel would want to dig through the
> archives. Maybe not as
> thoueoughly as , say, Titanic Geeks, How many beers
> ,eggs, and pounds of
> butter was put aboard, before she sailed. But
> historical stuff over the
> years. When I signed up, in 98-or99 it was pretty
> quiet. Ten , twenty
> messages a day.John Wayland was very active back
> then.My old computer
> may
> still have some early stuff on it, still? Haven't
> junked it yet.Back to
> the
> story;
>
> Dave Goldstein? Got yur ears on? WHO hada copy
> in EAA DC.?
>
> Seeya at BBB
>
> Bob
>
> I really THOUGHT I had a copy... but sifting
> through countless hours of
> old EV video from the early 90's I can not find
> it.
>
> I know there is a little POSTAGE STAMP size video on
> the Web, but it can
> hardly be viewed. So I am looking for a full
> screen VHS copy.
>
> Will $$ Pay a reasonable fee for the copy...
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found out that my 1986 toyota 4x4 truck did come
with manual steering.
So I have a bunch of choices:
A- Run it with the power steering not connected.
B- Run it with the power steering box, and disconnect
the pump and fluid.
C- Run it with the power steering and run a belt to
the warp 9" motor tail.
D- Just install the manual box.
E- Get a Toyota MR2 electric ps pump.
I think I'll just do option A, until I can get the box
(option D).
I heard that the Mister Two electric pump is noisey?
and draws lots of amps...
Thanks!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you said "manual," when you meant to say
"power".
The cost was $65 to install the manual rack and 6-8
hrs. of time; mostly because I destroyed the cable
reel (controls the airbag) when I put mine in.
Now, I may be wrong, and others will correct me, but
as you continue to use the power rack w/o cycling
fluid, etc. you will create inequalities in fluid
pressure, and the driving experience will not be
pleasant. At least that's what another LISTer
indicated to me (this was 1-1/2 yrs. ago, so
explanation may be poor, but I think that was the gist
of it).
If cost is your criteria, D
If quality is your criteria, E!
TTYL,
--- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I found out that my 1986 toyota 4x4 truck did come
> with manual steering.
> So I have a bunch of choices:
> A- Run it with the power steering not connected.
> B- Run it with the power steering box, and
> disconnect
> the pump and fluid.
> C- Run it with the power steering and run a belt to
> the warp 9" motor tail.
> D- Just install the manual box.
> E- Get a Toyota MR2 electric ps pump.
>
> I think I'll just do option A, until I can get the
> box
> (option D).
>
> I heard that the Mister Two electric pump is noisey?
> and draws lots of amps...
>
> Thanks!
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
Try this. Remove the hoses from the power steering pump and just connect hoses
from the steering rack together to see what happens.
I heard that someone did this on the list. I do not know what the results
were.
When I was modifying my El Camino to a EV. I had the power steering pump out
of the car, but was able to move the car around in the shop with little
steering resistance. This shot oil out of the steering rack, so I install
plugs and than the steering increase in resistance.
I never thought of connecting the hoses together.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: mike golub<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 5:27 PM
Subject: power steering
I found out that my 1986 toyota 4x4 truck did come
with manual steering.
So I have a bunch of choices:
A- Run it with the power steering not connected.
B- Run it with the power steering box, and disconnect
the pump and fluid.
C- Run it with the power steering and run a belt to
the warp 9" motor tail.
D- Just install the manual box.
E- Get a Toyota MR2 electric ps pump.
I think I'll just do option A, until I can get the box
(option D).
I heard that the Mister Two electric pump is noisey?
and draws lots of amps...
Thanks!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com<http://mail.yahoo.com/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
What is the best way to track down a ground fault between the pack and
the car body?
I was thinking along the lines of testing the voltage between the body
and various terminals in the pack.
Should I split the pack in case of multiple faults?
Any better ideas?
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rent or buy a Megger- sometime refered to as a growler- Used to find ground
faults without applying voltage from your pack.
Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi all,
What is the best way to track down a ground fault between the pack and
the car body?
I was thinking along the lines of testing the voltage between the body
and various terminals in the pack.
Should I split the pack in case of multiple faults?
Any better ideas?
Mark
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a idea for a video shoot the other day . A group of ev's park there
ev's at some convent store that sells gas . Now with all or most of the cars
at the store . or around the corner , with there electric motors hidden
under there hood they wait for the right person to drive up and buy some
gas. As Joe six pack goes to pump some gas , a ev rolls in and swings by the
pump " buying gas , man that is so old school let me show you what been
happening while you where away , you must have been out of town right? " as
he lifts his hood to show off the EV motor . another ev drives up " Is that
one of them gas burning cars ? , can I show my son what gas engine looks
like ? First ev'er leaves while others pull up , all the guy sees is
electric cars coming and going , one even plugged into the store. , the
people in them asking him questions as if driving a gas car is so different
.
The we would tell the it a new reality show and they may be on tv .
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: Looking for some Vintage EV - Video
Contact Marvin Rush. He either is responsible for that one or he knows who
is. You can probably contact him through the EV1 Owners Club. He was
involved somehow in the Star Trek series of shows and he was so upset with
the poor marketing of the EV1 by General Motors that he produced his own
commercial and had it played on TV. GM was so embarrassed that they
finally bought it from him. Guerilla tactics. We need much more of this! I
guess the vote thing on Drag Times is kind of like that.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" <[email protected]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:53 AM
Subject: Looking for some Vintage EV - Video
Love the movie trailer to " EV -Confidential - Who Killed the Electric
Car" Now, would LOVE to get a copy of the ORIGINAL GM EV1 Ad. done
(I think) by Lucas Light and Magic.... You know the one where all the
electric appliances hop out into the street, and the voice over
comes in...." The ELECTRIC car has arrived" (or something like that)
I really THOUGHT I had a copy... but sifting through countless hours of
old EV video from the early 90's I can not find it.
I know there is a little POSTAGE STAMP size video on the Web, but it can
hardly be viewed. So I am looking for a full screen VHS copy.
Will $$ Pay a reasonable fee for the copy...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/228 - Release Date:
1/12/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/228 - Release Date: 1/12/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:44 AM 14/01/06 -0500, steve clunn wrote:
I had a idea for a video shoot the other day . A group of ev's park there
ev's at some convent store that sells gas . Now with all or most of the
cars at the store . or around the corner , with there electric motors
hidden under there hood they wait for the right person to drive up and buy
some gas. As Joe six pack goes to pump some gas , a ev rolls in and swings
by the pump " buying gas , man that is so old school let me show you what
been happening while you where away , you must have been out of town
right? " as he lifts his hood to show off the EV motor . another ev drives
up " Is that one of them gas burning cars ? , can I show my son what gas
engine looks like ? First ev'er leaves while others pull up , all the guy
sees is electric cars coming and going , one even plugged into the store.
, the people in them asking him questions as if driving a gas car is so
different .
The we would tell the it a new reality show and they may be on tv .
Oh you wicked, wicked man! I like it. Pity there is not enough EVs here to
do that.
james
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not that it is quite on topic....But have you seen the new commercial for the
lexus hybrid? Has an ICE and a sweet looking sports "electric" crashing in a
lakebed head on. Lots of "parts" flying around and the narrator telling us how
the hybrids are "saving the plant."
STEVE CLUNN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I had a idea for a video shoot the
other day . A group of ev's park there
ev's at some convent store that sells gas . Now with all or most of the cars
at the store . or around the corner , with there electric motors hidden
under there hood they wait for the right person to drive up and buy some
gas. As Joe six pack goes to pump some gas , a ev rolls in and swings by the
pump " buying gas , man that is so old school let me show you what been
happening while you where away , you must have been out of town right? " as
he lifts his hood to show off the EV motor . another ev drives up " Is that
one of them gas burning cars ? , can I show my son what gas engine looks
like ? First ev'er leaves while others pull up , all the guy sees is
electric cars coming and going , one even plugged into the store. , the
people in them asking him questions as if driving a gas car is so different
.
The we would tell the it a new reality show and they may be on tv .
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde"
To:
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: Looking for some Vintage EV - Video
> Contact Marvin Rush. He either is responsible for that one or he knows who
> is. You can probably contact him through the EV1 Owners Club. He was
> involved somehow in the Star Trek series of shows and he was so upset with
> the poor marketing of the EV1 by General Motors that he produced his own
> commercial and had it played on TV. GM was so embarrassed that they
> finally bought it from him. Guerilla tactics. We need much more of this! I
> guess the vote thing on Drag Times is kind of like that.
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steven Lough"
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" ;
> ;
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:53 AM
> Subject: Looking for some Vintage EV - Video
>
>
>> Love the movie trailer to " EV -Confidential - Who Killed the Electric
>> Car" Now, would LOVE to get a copy of the ORIGINAL GM EV1 Ad. done
>> (I think) by Lucas Light and Magic.... You know the one where all the
>> electric appliances hop out into the street, and the voice over
>> comes in...." The ELECTRIC car has arrived" (or something like that)
>>
>> I really THOUGHT I had a copy... but sifting through countless hours of
>> old EV video from the early 90's I can not find it.
>>
>> I know there is a little POSTAGE STAMP size video on the Web, but it can
>> hardly be viewed. So I am looking for a full screen VHS copy.
>>
>> Will $$ Pay a reasonable fee for the copy...
>> --
>> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
>> Seattle EV Association
>> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
>> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
>> Day: 206 850-8535
>> Eve: 206 524-1351
>> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/228 - Release Date:
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Photo Books. You design it and well bind it!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As long as ther eis no power in a circuit, a telephone line (tone generator)
chaser works the same for half the cost of the growler. BUT must be used with
no power on circuits.
Paul
Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Rent or buy a Megger- sometime refered to as a growler- Used to find ground
faults without applying voltage from your pack.
Mark Fowler wrote: Hi all,
What is the best way to track down a ground fault between the pack and
the car body?
I was thinking along the lines of testing the voltage between the body
and various terminals in the pack.
Should I split the pack in case of multiple faults?
Any better ideas?
Mark
---------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
At 12:49 PM 15/01/06 +1100, Mark Fowler wrote:
Hi all,
What is the best way to track down a ground fault between the pack and
the car body?
I was thinking along the lines of testing the voltage between the body
and various terminals in the pack.
Should I split the pack in case of multiple faults?
Hi Mark
Yours is a Lithium (?) pack? Therefore there will be little leakage like
would occur with a wet-cell pack from cell moisture leakage.
First would be to use a voltmeter to find the point with lowest voltage to
frame.
Second would be to use a low-wattage light globe - a standard 240V one, as
low a wattage as you can find, and go to the ends of the pack and see if
the globe lights between pack ends and chassis, to determine the magnitude
of the ground fault - a short or just a little leakage. If it is a short,
then find the thing you can see, and fix it.
Third thing, unless it is a crushed or pinched wire, is that it probably is
a moisture track, so from the point where there is lowest voltage to
chassis, give the cells a good clean - I'd disconnect all cell
interconnects around that point and use a good household cleaner (since it
isn't acid leakage with Li), wash and wipe off the cell tops and reconnect.
Fourth thing, if the leakage is still there, disconnect the cells in the
area again, and see if you have voltage between the cells remaining
connected and chassis. Measure the resistance to ground from the
disconnected cell terminals, preferrably with a high-potential insulation
tester - commonly referred to as a "Megger", although that is just a brand
name, and Megger make more than just hi-pot insulation testers. Someone
else suggested that an alternative name for a 'megger' is a 'growler', but
that is a completely different beast, used for detecting shorted turns in
rotors (anyone got a link for how to make one?).
Things that will affect your readings:
like most people, you're likely to have a digital multimeter. These are
usually 10,000,000 ohms (10 meg-ohm) input impedence. What this means is
that the meter will put a slight leakage path of its' own, but won't pull
too hard, so will respond to stray voltages all over the place.
Multiple slight leakage paths will make you think the meter is going crazy,
since the voltage values will be unpredictable.
Capacitive coupling will make the meter read a high initial voltage, which
falls as the meter leaks away the energy.
The best way is to keep your brain in gear as you feel your way into the
diagnosis, and modify your testing to reflect the results found.
Hope this helps
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> Lee, I was just reviewing this circuit further. How does the 470-Ohm R3
> resistor allow 10ma to flow? If the cell is at 2.8V and the red LED is
> dropping 1.7V, then wouldn't the red LED be running at closer to 2ma--
> (2.8V - 1.7V) / 470-Ohm?
>
> +cell________________________
> | | |
> R1 > R3 > R4 >
> 1.1k > 100 > 1.1k >
> > > >
> | Q1 | Q2 |
> | PNP e____|____e PNP |
> |____|/ \|_____|
> | b |\ c c /| b |
> | | | |
> R2 > _|_ _|_ _|_
> 1.8k > _\_/_ _\_/_ _\_/_
> > | red | yel | green
> -cell_|______|_______|_______|
Oops; you're right. R3 should be smaller, more like (2.7v-1.7v)/10ma = 100
ohms. I corrected the schematic above.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yup that's for sure.
It's not the parts cost that matters.
It's the Man years in design
The parts inventory control, the labor for assembly... in Red White and Blue
Bucks per hour , not Sweat shop hours in Mongolia.
And the support and service to handle and ship and pack, and test, test and
test some more.
I just did 4 hours beating the 75K into line with some new control loop
circuits... Mk2B Regs and NIchrome.
Being nice at 2 amps when you have over 400 on hand , has to be done slowly
and carefully. Also the Yts are some of the first proto types....So they are
far from ideal AGMs. out of 6 two are now scrap. the other can take 100
amps of charge and still draw a perfect charge curve line. I broke the
terminal off one... bad post weld, and one just could not find any amp
hours... Nobody home. But it tested 12.78 volts open circuit
I might try to suck data off the Mk3s that I have . Bruce would be happy to
know they are being used as intended.
Rich Rudman
Madman
At home for change.
.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Mk3 Regs
> Rich has probably gone over the design pretty well to determine if he
> can reduce the price somewhere, and that he would probably ask us for
> help if he wanted help. Right/Wrong, Rich?
> I'm also assuming that a lot of the cost is just because of the low
> volume production.
> As far as the MCU goes, the Atmega 8 is only a few $. A more powerful
> CPU board would require more interfacing anyway.
> If Rich does want any recommendations ( I doubt he does from all of us
> talkers ) I'd try to help.
> We are spoiled by low-cost consumer electronics that are made in China
> qty 100k for $0.59
> --
> Martin Klingensmith
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jmygann wrote:
> I am doing a similar project... Issues I have run into...
> How many passengers? 2 or 4/5?
It only matters because the more people you carry, the less batteries you can
carry before hitting the vehicle's GVWR. Also, if you want all the stock
seating positions, then you can't fill the back seat area with batteries.
> number/kind of batteries and battery placement?
Flooded lead-acids are the cheapest. Sealed lead-acid cost about twice as much
but have higher performance. Other battery types (nicad, nimh, lithium) cost
much more, but offer increased range.
Often, you decide what you can afford for batteries, and choose accordingly.
> Automatic or stick trans ... clutch or clutchless?
All of these work. An automatic with a locking torque converter is as
efficient as a manual transmission. Without the locking torque converter,
you'll give up 5-10% of your range with an automatic.
Clutch or clutchless isn't that big a deal. If your EV motor and controller
are big enough, you rarely need to shift anyway.
> What are you going to do about no more vacuum assist brakes,
> heater/defrost ??
All the usual auto accessories can still work with an EV conversion. The quick
and cheap way is to use a motor with a shaft on both ends. Put a pulley on
the free end, and belt drive the power steering, alternator, air conditioning
compressor, and vacuum pump for the power brakes mechanically, just like an
ICE.
The higher tech route is to use a DC/DC to replace the alternator, and
separate electric motors for the power steering, vacuum pump, and air
conditioning compressor. Then you can run them independently at a speed
appropriate to their need.
> building or buying the adapter/ motor mounts ?
This boils down to how skilled you are with metalworking, and what tools you
have access to. Also, would you rather spend money or time on it?
> BUDGET?
Ah, that's always the big one! Almost all of us need to decide how much we can
afford to spend, and then build around our budget.
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It would be nice if someone could make up an mp4 or QT video from this -
perhaps in a couple of different compression levels - and post it somewhere
for downloading by other list members.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
Certainly this is a most excellent forum. I am amazed at how well all share
their ideas. I'm certainly impressed with those doing Siamese motors. I've
seen some good pics of some excellent mounts. My compliments to the
designers and builders. I see interest on the EVDL by others with this
concept. I know nothing about the designs other than what I can tell from
the pics and like others whose interests are piqued, I ask "where can I get
one of those". I have a proposal for anyone interested in bringing their
designs for motor mounts and adaptors, or any of the machined parts required
for an EV conversion for that matter, to market. I have a great uncle down
in Texas that has a machine shop with 13 CNC lathes and mills of various
sizes. He and my Grandpa both ran work for the oil field industry eeeww, yes
oil :-(, back in their day. My grandpa has since gotten out of the business
and my uncle has turned operations over to his sons. My cousins have
different ideas about what was fun to build and branched out their part
making to all sorts of fields. They're currently doing some excellent work
on custom aluminum bike wheels. Some of their work can be seen at their main
distributor's website www.cruiseconcepts.biz . They are running state of
the art 3-D CAD rendering and surfacing software from Remtek
http://www.remtek.com/ and can cut just about anything you can draw out of
steel or aluminum. They can also offer CAD services for parts you want them
to build. Just as a side note a large part of their business is also
building the molds for Plastic Injection Molding of plastic parts.
Anyway, my thinking on this is that breaking into the turnkey EV industry
seems difficult at best with the current political climate. However there
seems a cohesive group of converters with lots of good ideas and designs.
If there are some of you that have knocked off custom motor mounts and
adaptors that you are thinking of marketing and producing, I offer my
uncle's shop as a resource. From what I can tell in researching my own
conversion it seems that most of you with retail shops are pretty busy. I
hope I'm not wrong on this. And those marketing adaptors and mounts that
may get behind on production now and then please consider this offer as an
alternative to cutting your own iron (or aluminum). The name of the shop is
DEW Tool & Die
P. O. Box 614
Troup TX 75789
Contact: Ronnie Weeks
903-842-4344
dewt&[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I thought I'd throw this out as a resource for those who think you have a
good design and could get some play out of it. Those of us who are mere
converters could get the benefit of good ideas brought to market. These guys
won't discriminate and will make parts for anyone with an idea. However
their main interest is mass producing cool stuff that lots of folks want to
buy. Racing stuff is particularly appealing. Much of the superior safety
design for automobiles comes out of the racing scene. I'm asking nothing
out of any connections or deals made other than someday seeing inexpensive
machined parts on retailers shelves for EV conversions. I would enjoy
entertaining and consolidating ideas from this forum to send to my uncle's
shop. I've already sent pics of the impressive custom items as well as some
of the semi-stock motor adaptor kits. They're definitely interested in
production work and I hope this community as a whole could come up with some
really neat ideas to put on the retailers shelves. Feel free to contact
these guys on your own. Or if you'd like to rattle ideas around on this
list for a while I'd be happy to keep them apprised on the way the winds are
blowing.
If admins for the EVForge site read this could I get some assistance in
posting this as a topic of discussion with a folder for uploading pics,
drawings and ideas?
Thanks all who contibute to this most excellent site.
Mike Willmon
Anchorage, Ak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
G'day all - particularly Jim Husted
I just spent the last couple of hours dismantling the fields from my motor,
photos at:
http://jcmassey.gallery.netspace.net.au/Daihatsu-pics-01?page=2
Plans at this stage, the fields are 24 turns, and a bit singed by its'
previous life. Since Jim sent me some Fusa-Fab I'm equipped to tidy them
up. So:
Option 1) Strip off the existing insulation, re-bind, reassemble and bake.
Option 2) Get some new wire and wind new coils, bind, reassemble and bake.
Any which way, with the fields out of the motor tube, I can have the motor
tube sandblasted & paint it. Hmm, yellow, I think. I like yellow. Or maybe
blue... choices, choices...
Also with the Aramid 'paper' Jim sent, I can replace the crunchy
falling-out insulation sheet that was behind the field windings. It's Jims'
fault I'm doing this, got all inspired by the photos he's posted on his web
site!
As usual, all comments welcome.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to repost, but I never got a response from this, maybe it was lost
in the sea of words:
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
Can I simply repack the bearings? Is there any special procedure or
grease I should use?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is that 10A @ 72V about as high as it will go? At 96V it will
probably be significantly less amperage. While it has most of
the night to charge, I doubt I want to charge 235A-hr floodeds at
6-8A all the time. I usually charge at ~11A off my 120V line
with my Zivan K2. So all considered, if the K2 is toast, I'm
probably just going to stick with my variac for charging. It's
paid for.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricky Suiter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: After Marin ampabout, Zivan down, needs exorcism
> No no no, I'm running 144 in my Saturn EV with a PFC30 charger.
My GEM car (you know, those egg shaped NEV's) has a Zivan in it.
It's only 72 volts, and something like a 10 amp output from NG1.
The thing does draw something like 12 amps from the line though
so that alone would generate some heat in any connection, throw
in the poor fuse holder and melt!
>
> I added some captions to the photos.
>
> Chuck Hursch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Ricky,
>
> Thanks for the tip, and I looked at the photos (annotations
would
> be helpful, at least saying what this photo is, and you need a
> close-up lens or somesuch, but I do appreciate you posting
them).
> Strange, the pdf file for the NG1 gave me the impression that
the
> NG1 would have troubles putting anything more than about 8A
into
> my 96V pack (pdf file on zivanusa site seemed to imply it was
> more a lower DC voltage charger). Yet I got the impression from
> Greg that it might be closer to 10A or so, and here you are at
> 144V with your EV using an NG1 (at what amps?).
>
> Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ricky Suiter"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 6:43 PM
> Subject: Re: After Marin ampabout, Zivan down, needs exorcism
>
>
> > I'm not really familiar with Zivans other than the NG1
charger
> in my GEM car, but here's something to ponder. On the NG1's
they
> came with a plastic fuse holder for the main power in to the
unit
> with a 16 amp (yes 16 amp, kind of a weird rating) ceramic fuse
> in them. Well you pull ~12 amps at 120 through this and it gets
> pretty hot and it's a known issue with GEM's to melt this fuse
> holder, and of course mine did just that. Here's some pictures
of
> the destruction and repair, the fuse holder took an EMI
> supression capacitor next to it out with it.
> > http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ricksuiter/album?.dir=fb59
> > I just soldered a fuse in directly to minimize any
> unnecessary resistance the fuse holder may have caused. I've
> corresponded with Greg from Elcon before and if you buy one of
> these chargers from him they automatically desolder the fuse
> holder and solder a fuse directly to the board.
> >
> > Now granted when mine went poof I didn't have any strange
> electrical things happen in the house, or even a tripped
breaker.
> >
> > Chuck Hursch wrote:
> > My 120V Zivan K2, which had been functioning perfectly for
> years,
> > died last night shortly after I plugged it in. When I plugged
> it
> > in, it did its usual start-up sequence with the lights and
all
> > seemed well as I went back upstairs to my apt. As I was
washing
> > my dishes, I noticed that the 1/4-watt neon pilot light I
have
> in
> > the kitchen for the 20A circuit that goes down to the carport
> was
> > out. Odd, I thought, that is very unusual. The microwave oven
> > on that circuit is also out (no display), so it's not just a
> > burnt out lightbulb. Hmmm... Yep, the circuit breaker in the
> > closet is tripped. Well, gotta have power to figure out
what's
> > going on, so I decided to reset the breaker. Immediately
heard
> a
> > sound that seemed like a lot of current was flowing, with a
bit
> > of light dimming and brightening on other circuits, but the
> > circuit breaker did not re-trip. With the Zivan's normal
> > soft-start, this would be a bit unexpected, although I would
> > occasionally get a bit of pop and arc when I would plug the
> thing
> > in, I presume charging up some caps (pop would depend I think
> on
> > how true and quickly the plug went into the AC socket). Well,
> > with somewhat heavy heart, I tromped downstairs back to the
> > carport, opened the hatch and peered in. No lights, no
nothing,
> > no smokey smell from the Zivan, just the usual whir of the
fan
> > venting the rear pack enclosure. I verified pack voltage at
the
> > charger, and nothing else seemed amiss that would cause the
> > charger to malfunction. I disconnected the charger from the
> > pack, unplugged the car, and decided to implement Plan B
> charging
> > in the morning.
> >
> > Always have a backup Plan B for charging. If I did not, I
would
> > have a semi-discharged pack sitting for days or weeks while
the
> > charger is turned around (if repairable), shortening the life
> of
> > the pack, and making the car unusable. Plan B for me these
> years
> > is a 20A variac running through a full-wave bridge rectifier.
I
> > have used this rig for equalizing the car's traction pack
many,
> > many times, but I have never really done a full bulk charge.
I
> > thought one of these days I would try a practise run or two,
> but
> > never got around to it. Now I'm doing it for real, as I write
> > this email. I am the servo (cranking up the knob as the pack
> > voltage rises, although don't have to do that much during
most
> of
> > the bulk charge as the voltage doesn't move much), and it is
> also
> > non-isolated charging (yep, the car is wet from last night's
> > rain, and the floor of the carport is also damp, but I've
been
> > there and done that with non-isolated chargers and haven't
> gotten
> > hurt, just don't like it anymore).
> >
> > I have a call into Greg McCrea, of Electric Conversions, up
in
> > Sacramento, the person from whom I bought the Zivan. A live
> > person on the other end of the line, a woman, answered the
> phone.
> > Greg is supposed to call me back. In the meantime, I pour
over
> > in my mind the possibilities.(and it was a somewhat sleepless
> > night last night, thinking about the pack not getting it's
> > nightly fill-up, and what's going on with the charger). I'm
> > hoping it's nothing more than a blown rectifier that tripped
> the
> > circuit breaker the first time around, and maybe blew a fuse
in
> > the charger the second time around. My previous K&W BC-20
> > charger had somewhat similar symptoms when it blew its
> rectifier
> > back in the late '90s, and fortunately that event took
nothing
> > else in the charger with it. K&W turned it around quickly and
> > inexpensively, and I used that charger for another year or
two
> > before I sold it to another EVDL'er.
> >
> > So any opinions amongst you learned exorcists out there as to
> > what happened with the Zivan?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Later,
> > Ricky
> > 02 Insight
> > 92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
> > Glendale, AZ USA
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Later,
> Ricky
> 02 Insight
> 92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
> Glendale, AZ USA
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Photos
> Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events,
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>
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