EV Digest 5115
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: budget EV insurance
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Battery Box in the back of a Pickup
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Thank You, Roderick Wilde!
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) DO NOT put batteries in series with your controller
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: Battery Box in the back of a Pickup
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Battery Box in the back of a Pickup
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: IS this a good idea (batteries in series with controller)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Zapi H2 user feedback sought
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Battery Beach Burnout part 1
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Clinton Library EV Charge station (pics!)
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertor
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertor
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Battery Box in the back of a Pickup
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: IS this a good idea (batteries in series with controller)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertor
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Solectria Temp Sensor
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) How to transport your race EV's, was Re: Battery Beach Burnout...
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Solectria Temp Sensor
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Battery Box in the back of a Pickup
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---I had this problem also, when insuring the bike. They considered it a "custom built" and the cost of coverage was 3 times the price of a stock bike. Sooo, went to an online co and paid a whole lot less. Should the worst happen, I suppose that they wont pay but that is the chance I take. bruce wrote: As with much in life incompetence is not a legal defense. The agent's "mistake" may open you up to liability and lack of coverage, but that is only IMHO. I may be full of it also. Bruce David Roden wrote: When I insured my Civic (liability only), I told the agent it was an electric conversion. She was silent for a moment, then said something to the effect of "I don't see anything here about that." AFAIK, she wrote the policy as if it were an ordinary Civic. I'm not sure that was the right way to go about it, but I didn't fuss. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
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--- Begin Message ---Any body thats done a pickup and put the batteries "in" the bed? I'm wondering that since I'm building a box back there if putting the charger and controller in boxes of their own off to each side would be cleaner and/or safer than under the hood. If I do this I can consolidate all the pack and charging wires inside the boxes. The only high voltage that would need to run to the front would be the motor wires and aux power wires. Any thoughts? Mike, Anchorage, AK.<<attachment: winmail.dat>>
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--- Begin Message ---PS: Ken Trough has a synopses of the recent turmoil within NEDRA at: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>The direct URL is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA/message/11 or http://tinyurl.com/76odp -Ken Trough V is for Voltage http://visforvoltage.com AIM/YM - ktrough FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
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--- Begin Message ---My first car was 36 V (GE controller). I really am not sure if it was an EV-1 or EV-100. I thought it would be good to have another 12 V battery in series with the controller as part of the 1A bypass to get 48 V. I don't remember exactly how I wired it, but it only came into play when the controller was at full bypass. In other words, it went from 0 - 36 V on the PWM and then instantly to 48 V on the bypass. I always ran on the bypass, so I figured ... no issue. It didn't work. It nearly killed the controller. The extra battery didn't like it much either. The car got stuck on full voltage and literally ran itself into a wood retaining wall. I had no way to stop it because it had no clutch. I ripped the battery out, while it was still running and nearly caught the car on fire. There were still burn marks from the damage. So, in my experience, if you don't know what you are doing with this ... don't do it. Hopefully my mistake (8 years ago) will prevent you from destroying your car. Steve ------------------------ Subject: Re: IS this a good idea (batteries in series with controller) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 17:51:32 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I asked Alltrax if this would work. They said no, because the controller would "see" the total voltage and fry. I don't know if that is a difference between Alltrax & Curtis, Lee Hart and the Alltrax people, or just excess caution on Alltrax's part. I'd be interested to see if this has actually been tried by anyone, and if so, the results. From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:25 pm Subject: Re: is this a good idea? [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send Email Dale Curren wrote: > A friend and I have been playing with an electric car. It currently > has 4 batteries in series (48v) and a got-for-cheap curtis controller > that is rated at only 48 volts... we had the idea to put two more > batteries in the series but AFTER the controller. We would use a > manual switch to insert these two batteries in the series after > we're already full throttle using 48 volts... Will this allow our > 48 volt controller to feel no more than 48 volts of pressure, thus > keeping it happy. It could work, depending on how you wire it. The Curtis controller switches M- (the negative side of the motor) between B+ and B- (the + and - of your 48v pack). The positive side of the motor is normally tied to B+. You can add a SPDT (Single Pole, Double Throw) contactor to switch your extra batteries into the positive side of the motor. Try this: <snip>
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--- Begin Message ---Mike, I am putting my batteries, all 30 of them in the back. I have a S-10, that was originally a AC truck. When I got it all the AC components were removed, but it still had the battery box that went below the bed, on either side of the drive shaft. I am using Trojan T-125's. 10 of them will fit in the existing alum box and I have made a metal box for the remaining 20. I decided to do away with the bed. The new box of 20 sits on new cross pieces attached to the frame and is moveable so that I can get at the batteries under it, in the original box. I've also made a 'chill plate' that will placed under the batteries so that if needed I can cool them in the hot AZ summers. The controller (a zilla 1k-hv) and all the other electrical components will be in the front. I'll be using Lee Harts Battery Balancer and so all the HV connections and other wires will go in electrical conduits under the car from front to back. I don't foresee any problems with the wiring. I'm using 2/0 for the battery wiring. The engine compartment seemed a logical place to populate with the electronics because of the space it has. Also from a weight consideration I wanted to keep some weight on the front, not much, a 100 lbs at the most. But it brings the Center of Gravity a little more forward. I've weighted the truck as is, with all the ICE components and bed removed, the front weights ~1000 lbs and the rear ~896 lbs. I figure that I'll be adding 2665 lbs (batteries, battery boxes, zilla, charger, 9" motor, me) for a total of 4561lbs. The GVWR was increased to 5400 lbs (2500 front and 2900 rear) by US Electric Car in '94, so I will have about 900 more lbs of 'payload'. The batteries, 1980 lbs are 42% of the total weight. >From a handling point of view I think I'll be fine, although the 20 batteries >are about the height of the original bed. I have a friend that has a truck, >Ram 50 with 20 batteries in his bed and he has no problems with handling. He >put an extra leaf in his rear and had the re-arched. I've got some pictures that I have not yet edited. Hopefully I can get to that soon and put them up on my site. Rush Tucson AZ www.ironandwood.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Paula Willmon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:03 AM Subject: Battery Box in the back of a Pickup > Any body thats done a pickup and put the batteries "in" the bed? I'm > wondering that since I'm building a box back there if putting the charger > and controller in boxes of their own off to each side would be cleaner > and/or safer than under the hood. If I do this I can consolidate all the > pack and charging wires inside the boxes. The only high voltage that would > need to run to the front would be the motor wires and aux power wires. Any > thoughts? > > Mike, > Anchorage, AK. >
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--- Begin Message ---Hello Mike & Paula, This is how my 1977 El Camino is done. If you just type in Roland Wiench 1977 El Camino Electro in your search engine, you will go right to the pictures in the EV Album. For some reason the WEB site doubles up on me. I made a fiberglass battery box out of 1/4 inch thick fiberglass sheets that I had made up in 4 foot by 8 foot size from a local fiberglass company. I than coated the inside of the box with epoxy paint, the type that is use to recoat old tubs and sinks that you can get from Home Depot. The box holds 30 each T-145 6-volt 260 AH batteries, than is on and forward of the rear axle. This box has a air inlet in one corner and a exhaust out let in the other corner. There is 2 inch PVC 1/4 inch thick plumbing pipe and fittings, using the high pressure type which brings in fresh air from below the vehicle bed and is exhaust out threw a 2 inch flexible PVC 1/4 inch thick pipe that go's to a inline all plastic totally enclose 100 cfm fan. This is also exhaust out and down under the bed of the car. This exhaust which is all 1/4 inch PVC 2 inch pipe paint black with plastic Fusion paint is run back like a exhaust pipe is. If I'm charging in the winter time inside a building and doing a hard or balance charge, than I can cannot up a exhaust hose on this outlet and connect it to a threw connection on the garage door. I keep the garage at 70 degrees while I am charging, so I bring in 70 degrees threw the battery box. If it not so cold outside, above 0 F. than I may just crack the garage door a bit before I do a balance charge or charging the batteries above 80 percent. The charger box and another section that contains two safety contactors, a charger contactor that disconnects the charger from the battery and related circuit breakers and a 150 CFM fan which pressurizes the this compartment so the battery exhaust fumes do not get in. Its takes fresh in at a point that is the further distance from the battery exhaust. The air exhaust from the charger compartment is next to the air inlet for the battery fresh air inlet. The battery charger will let out 80 to 90 degree air and It helps warms up the air going into the battery box. A PFC-50B charger is now use, which is place in the left hand compartment where you see the cover hinge up that shows DC and AC amp and volt meters. These were move to the right compartment on its on hinge up cover. The PFC-50B charger top of case is mounted flush with the top of the box and rises up on air struts for access of the control panel. With this added weight on the rear axle, I had to change out the standard axles and axles bearings which was standard GM type with no inner race, to a Mark Williams axle housing kit which changes it to a heavy duty inner and outer race for a larger diameter axle. The front to rear weight ratio is now about 30% for the front and 70% for the rear. To level up the car, which was still 1.25 inch lower while using a 3500 lb rated rear spring. I used a airsping/shock combination unit in the front by Air Ride Technologies to level up the car. The entire rear compartment is bolted in with eight 1/2 inch grade eight bolts down through the bed and back up with large steel plate washers. There are narrow side compartments that are flush with the top of the covers, that are the wire ways for the two main battery DC cables, accessory 12 volt cables, that feed a isolation circuit for the E-Meter and to a 12 volt maintainer charger, and indicator circuits. Removing the side panels and 8 bolts, these enclosures can slide out or in. All wiring, can be disconnected using a large terminal power blocks and set screw terminal strips. The battery cables enter the charger compartments through PVC chase nipples and than seal with electrical duct putty. You also could used 3-M windshield black caulking strips. The 1977 El Camino manufacture hatch covers were not that good at the time, so I made the one as shown. The latter pickups cover are better and provide a full seal all around and are lower so you can see out the rear window. I find even if its 30 below F. I can park the EV with the glass panel in the hatch facing the sun, which keeps this compartment above 80 degrees at times. Roland ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike & Paula Willmon<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:03 AM Subject: Battery Box in the back of a Pickup Any body thats done a pickup and put the batteries "in" the bed? I'm wondering that since I'm building a box back there if putting the charger and controller in boxes of their own off to each side would be cleaner and/or safer than under the hood. If I do this I can consolidate all the pack and charging wires inside the boxes. The only high voltage that would need to run to the front would be the motor wires and aux power wires. Any thoughts? Mike, Anchorage, AK.
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--- Begin Message ---kluge wrote: > I asked Alltrax if this would work. They said no, because the > controller would "see" the total voltage and fry. I don't know > if that is a difference between Alltrax & Curtis, Lee Hart and > the Alltrax people, or just excess caution on Alltrax's part. I believe the Alltrax controllers switch the high side, while the Curtis switches the low side. The circuit for a high side switch would be different, but equivalent. But, I don't have one to actually try. So, caveat experimentor! -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Mark Freidberg wrote: > There isn't much space to work with where the 1221 is mounted. > So a heatsink or fan may not fit in there. I'll check with Ralph > about a cold plate. A "cold plate" is basically a sheet of aluminum or copper with tubing soldered/brazed/crimped to it, or a thick enough sheet so that long holes can be drilled through it edgewise, or two sheets of metal spaced slightly apart and gasketed around the periphery. Water or other coolant is circulated in these passages with a pump. The heat is removed from the liquid with a little radiator somewhere else. The advantage of a cold plate is that it takes virtually no extra room at the controller. > I may need to relocate whatever controller ends up "in charge of" > the van. The Zapi H2 you mentioned is larger than the Curtis 1221, so this would make matters worse. > The other thing is that the controller was installed in the van > in 1995-96 as a reconditioned unit. The van's odometer reads about > 13,000 kilometers. So whatever portion of that mileage has been > logged since the installation has been done with inadequate cooling > for the controller. The life expectancy of electronics is strongly affected by temperature. Every 10 deg.C temperature increase cuts their life about 2:1. The big electrolytic capacitors are the most sensitive, followed by the power semiconductors. If any of these parts blow, the controller is likely to be very difficult to fix. So, I would work out *some* way to improve the cooling! How are you driving it? A common mistake is to shift an EV like an ICE, trying to keep motor rpm low. This will make the electric motor and controller overheat. The correct way is to shift to keep the motor rpm *high*. This reduces current, so the motor and controller run cooler and more efficiently. -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message -------- Original Message ----- From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 11:10 AM Subject: Re: One day away till Battery Beach Burnoutwell I woke a 3 am and got the lights out , wasn't the clutch was my hub that held the fly wheel , made a direct coupler and everything it back in place and time for a test drive , if it goes I'm off , if not I'm off to , see ya at bbb.steve clunnTime , waits for nobody , 2 weeks before BBB and I didn't have my Pick up any where near ready . When the adc 9 that was in the truck started to act funny at around 450 amp ( 264v ) I ordered a 11 net gain and a racing clutch , . My reasoning was that the adc 9 had worked fine for years ( with a 400 amp 120v Curtis and could still be used in something if I didn't tear it up. This was clunn car 5 and had been through 2 owners , it was the lightest pu I had ever done . I called net gain and told them my story , and 4 days later I'm picking up a 11 net gain motor , I ordered a racing clutch at the same time and got the wenday ( week and a half before bbb) . After pulling the motor I found the clutch disk did not fit the tranny shaft . I call and the guy was very nice , we checked numbers , over and over , . The spline on my tranny where bigger than any thing he had in that size clutch disk something could be ordered but not in the time frame I was in . The spline in the disk was held by 8 rivets , all I needed to do was get the spline for the old clutch disk onto the racing clutch disk, and by 3am it was done. The next day I put the new 11 motor in , I didn't check to see if the throw out bearing was working just popped the motor back in . Taking the motor out is not that hard , but I descided to test drive it , . I found that the throw out bearing was not disengaging , after adjusting it all the way with the clutch peddle to the floor it still didn't release. Motor comes out again , redo shims so the motor is closer to the tranny , , feels like it is in the right place but when I push on the peddle it sounds like the throw out bearing is grinding on the fingers of the presser plate. Well I guess I'll just have to leave it in one gear for bbb, and deal with things later. With a 1k controller it seemed very fast , no problem in spinning the wheels in 2nd so I started to work on other stuff , and resigned myself to not having a working clutch. With one week to go I'm now playing with trying to make the thing look neat and clean , the zilla 2k is coming , I'm telling my self that just being their is was counts and if I have to take off slow , stuck in 3ed for the whole 1/4 run , well that's ok. I'm braking the motor in , driving easy ( so what ) and seeing more power as the com starts to darken up with the brushes seating . The Zill came Monday , but I didn't put it in , I'm seeing allot of power with the 1k and am worried about the motor not being broken yet. I'm push the 1k harder and now for some reason it's cutting off . Error code says the 12v SLI is low . I don't have a dc to dc , which if I did would make sense with the traction pack voltage drop and the dc to dc converter browning out , but I'm using a plane 12 battery . I re wire thing so the 12v is coming from another wire , but still the same , . Well its the day before bbb and time to put the 2k in , hope the 11 is broken in enough and go . Now Paul who has the 959 Porsche is also getting ready for BBB , he's pulled the old vw tranny that was in the car and put a real Porsche tranny in . He has a 1k zilla watch I need to hook up and all week I've been telling him when he getting the tranny in I'd come over ( 65 miles ) and set it up . All week he has been plagued with problems as the axels didn't match up right and the Porsche flywheel didn't fit the motor hub.part 2about 4 today when I finnly put in the 2k zilla , around the block , more go peddle and then, the clutch lets go . was just getting it broked in it to , well I'm still going , but I promissed to work on Paul's car friday , so mine is dead in the water. .Steve Clunn
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--- Begin Message ---That connection is bizarre. I wonder why they did not put up an AVCON or SPI charge station? Or how about a plain old 14-50 outlet? Thanks! On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 07:47:06PM -0600, Ryan Stotts wrote: > I had my parents take some pics when they were passing through there. > > http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3774/dsc035950fy.jpg > > http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1977/dsc035965qh.jpg > > http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2082/dsc035977pp.jpg > > http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8528/dsc035981cz.jpg > > http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9840/dsc035999kq.jpg
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--- Begin Message --- That would make more sense to me. Then you have to have a charger that puts out the needed 17 volt for Absorption and 15.1 volts for float, but that is doable. Let me know if you need a charger I could modify a 10 amp charger to do that.Mark Grasser----- Original Message ----- From: "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: RE: 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertorhow about running an 8 volt battery AND a 6 volt in series for your aux system? Then you could have 14 volts. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark Grasser Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertor What bothers me about running off just a battery is that it is only 12volts. Too dim of headlight for me. My work-in-progress will get a DC to DC that runs an output of 14 to 14.5 VDC no battery. This is the level presentICE cars run at and is the voltage the headlights and accessories were designed to run at. Mark Grasser Subject: Re: 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertorCor van de Water wrote:You want to get stuck on a railroad crossing (or any other roadway crossing) because you were too cheap to install a DC/DC converter and your 12V battery died?Yes, it could happen. Extremely unlikely, though. Batteries don't suddenly die; they gradually fade away. You'd have plenty of warning. My early EVs had no DC/DC converter or alternator, and just ran all 12v loads off the accessory battery. Given that they were 50-100 amphour batteries, and my maximum 12v load was 25 amps or less, I could drive off the accessory battery for 2-4 hours. That was a *lot* longer than my propulsion pack would last!Look at what Toyota did with the Prius. They could have installed an alternator - the engine normally does not shut off for more than a few minutes. Why then did they add a 100A 12V inverter to the motor controller? Guess?Because their 12v system powers an electric heater, the power steering, power brakes, etc. -- Lee Hart
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--- Begin Message ---isn't that what those 16 volt batteries for? --- Mark Grasser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > That would make more sense to me. Then you have to > have a charger that puts > out the needed 17 volt for Absorption and 15.1 volts > for float, but that is > doable. Let me know if you need a charger I could > modify a 10 amp charger to > do that. > > > Mark Grasser > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 8:25 PM > Subject: RE: 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertor > > > > how about running an 8 volt battery AND a 6 volt > in series for your aux > > system? Then you could have 14 volts. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Behalf Of Mark Grasser > > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:11 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertor > > > > > > What bothers me about running off just a battery > is that it is only 12 > > volts. Too dim of headlight for me. My > work-in-progress will get a DC to > > DC > > that runs an output of 14 to 14.5 VDC no battery. > This is the level > > present > > ICE cars run at and is the voltage the headlights > and accessories were > > designed to run at. > > > > > > > > > > Mark Grasser > > Subject: Re: 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertor > > > > > >> Cor van de Water wrote: > >>> You want to get stuck on a railroad crossing (or > any other > >>> roadway crossing) because you were too cheap to > install a > >>> DC/DC converter and your 12V battery died? > >> > >> Yes, it could happen. Extremely unlikely, though. > Batteries don't > >> suddenly die; they gradually fade away. You'd > have plenty of warning. > >> > >> My early EVs had no DC/DC converter or > alternator, and just ran all 12v > >> loads off the accessory battery. Given that they > were 50-100 amphour > >> batteries, and my maximum 12v load was 25 amps or > less, I could drive > >> off the accessory battery for 2-4 hours. That was > a *lot* longer than my > >> propulsion pack would last! > >> > >>> Look at what Toyota did with the Prius. They > could have > >>> installed an alternator - the engine normally > does not > >>> shut off for more than a few minutes. > >>> Why then did they add a 100A 12V inverter to the > motor > >>> controller? Guess? > >> > >> Because their 12v system powers an electric > heater, the power steering, > >> power brakes, etc. > >> -- > >> Lee Hart > >> > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---Mike & Paula Willmon wrote: > Any body thats done a pickup and put the batteries "in" the > bed? It has been done. The advantage is that the batteries are easy to access, and it fills the box so that you are lessa ta risk of severely overloading the vehicle by filling the box with something when the vehicle is already at/over GVWR due to a full load of batteries under the box. The downside is that the vehicle will handle better and usually looks cleaner if you put the batteries under the bed between the frame rails and modify the box to tilt up for almost as easy access as if the batteries were in the box. > I'm wondering that since I'm building a box back there > if putting the charger and controller in boxes of their own > off to each side would be cleaner and/or safer than under the > hood. If I do this I can consolidate all the pack and > charging wires inside the boxes. The only high voltage that > would need to run to the front would be the motor wires and > aux power wires. Any thoughts? Locating the charger with the pack is fine, but you don't want to locate the controller there. The wires between the controller and motor should be kept as short (and stout) as possible, and this is hard to do if the motor is under the hood and the controller is behind the cab. Even with the controller up front you still have only 2 traction (high) voltage wires going up under the hood: pack +ve and -ve to the controller input. Given that you seem to want to minimise the number of high voltage wires under the hood, I would suggest that you locate the charger and contactors in the box with the batteries. When the truck is off, the contrator(s) are open and no battery voltage is present outside of the battery box. The charger needs to connect to the battery side of the contactors, so locating it near the batteries makes sense. This also keeps the AC connection to the charger out from under the hood. You may then want to have a manual service disconnect under the hood, such as an appropriate Anderson SB connector, so that you can physically unplug the battery wires from the controller before working on anything. Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I believe the Alltrax controllers switch the high side, while > the Curtis switches the low side. The circuit for a high side > switch would be different, but equivalent. > > But, I don't have one to actually try. So, caveat experimentor! The Alltrax controllers use synchronous rectification, which might make them just enough different to justify Alltrax's warning. Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message --- I do recall, now that you mention it, that there are 14 volt batteries (7 cells) available for the hot rod drag boys that run the 1/4 mile without an alternator. This is a perfect option for you guys that don't want to do a DC to DC.Mark Grasser----- Original Message ----- From: "mike golub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 1:57 PM Subject: Re: 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertorisn't that what those 16 volt batteries for? --- Mark Grasser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:That would make more sense to me. Then you have to have a charger that puts out the needed 17 volt for Absorption and 15.1 volts for float, but that is doable. Let me know if you need a charger I could modify a 10 amp charger to do that. Mark Grasser----- Original Message ----- From: "Jody Dewey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: RE: 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertor > how about running an 8 volt battery AND a 6 volt in series for your aux > system? Then you could have 14 volts. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Mark Grasser > Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:11 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertor > > > What bothers me about running off just a battery is that it is only 12 > volts. Too dim of headlight for me. My work-in-progress will get a DC to > DC > that runs an output of 14 to 14.5 VDC no battery. This is the level > present > ICE cars run at and is the voltage the headlights and accessories were > designed to run at. > > > > > Mark Grasser > Subject: Re: 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertor > > >> Cor van de Water wrote: >>> You want to get stuck on a railroad crossing (or any other >>> roadway crossing) because you were too cheap to install a >>> DC/DC converter and your 12V battery died? >> >> Yes, it could happen. Extremely unlikely, though. Batteries don't >> suddenly die; they gradually fade away. You'd have plenty of warning. >> >> My early EVs had no DC/DC converter or alternator, and just ran all 12v >> loads off the accessory battery. Given that they were 50-100 amphour >> batteries, and my maximum 12v load was 25 amps or less, I could drive >> off the accessory battery for 2-4 hours. That was a *lot* longer than my >> propulsion pack would last! >> >>> Look at what Toyota did with the Prius. They could have >>> installed an alternator - the engine normally does not >>> shut off for more than a few minutes. >>> Why then did they add a 100A 12V inverter to the motor >>> controller? Guess? >> >> Because their 12v system powers an electric heater, the power steering, >> power brakes, etc. >> -- >> Lee Hart >> >__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---Hi folks,Please bear with me here, electronics is not my area so I probably sound about half a bubble off center.I have an old Solectria BC1000 charger, setup for a 156 Volt Force that I would like to use on my Civic conversion as an opportunity charger. I tested it in my Force before I sold it, so it does work. The problem is, it won't work without a temp sensor and I have no info on the sensor. I have emailed Solectria but received no response. The new owner of my Force did probe the connector at the charger and was able to determine the resistance between the three wires. The batteries were probably somewhere around 68 degrees F and he found from the black wire to the green was 65.8 K Ohm, from black to red was 53.1 M Ohm, and from green to red 5.41 M Ohm. Is it possible to identify a compatible sensor based on this info? If not a sensor, can I make up a jumper to fool it into working? The point is to just get the think working well enough to give me a lightweight 120 VAC charger on the Civic that won't trip a breaker and won't fry the batteries. Currently I am using a home built setup based on the guts of a "Fair Radio" charger with a 24 Volt transformer added and a 12 hour fan timer for control. The whole think is probably 80 pounds and is not efficient nor does it bring the pack to full charge.Another chapter member has a similar charger, from an older 144 Volt Force. He would like to try to use it as an opportunity charger on his 120 Volt pickup conversion. If the temp sensor issue can be solved, is it possible to reduce the output voltage from 144 to 120 by using a series of diodes in the output?Thanks, Mike Chancey, '88 Civic EV Kansas City, Missouri EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.htmlIn medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme position. (Horace)
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--- Begin Message ---Steve and All, This reminds me of an interesting eelectric field trip back in October, when my daughter and I tried to do something similar on the last weekend that Bandimere's in Denver was open for the season. We had finally installed a bone-yard transmission along with a new clutch in the eelectric car, and had cycled the fresh new Orb' battery pack, having retired the old Yeller Tops. I had hitched a tow-dolly up to the eelectric truck, and had the 10kW propane genny and off-board FrankenLester charger in the bed, feeding the batteries in the RX-7, which I had loaded onto the dolly. My daughter was in the car shifting and running the go-pedal as a "pusher", while a communicating with me in the truck using walkie-talkies. We had to stop to top off the car and switch the genny and charger to the truck after going up "the big hill" on 93 south of The Peoples Republic of Boulder, having stupidly gone through TPRoB with the genny off, instead of around it with the genny running. Anyway, at the top of the hill we called it quits 'cause we got a late start, the daughter had to work later that night, blah blah blah, but we learned how to get a short range EV to EVents without a using no stinkin' gasoline. Or breaking a tow rope, but that's another story! 50,000 plus eelectric miles on the buggies, and a counting, Dave (B.B.) Hawkins Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council: http://www.devc.org/ Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag Racing Association: http://www.nedra.com/ Lyons, CO 1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of Orbs for the teenagers) 1989 GM (General Murderers of the EV-1!) S10 (144V of floodies, for Pa only!) >From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: Battery Beach Burnout and , Who an' Where? >Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:12:43 -0500 > >I'm going , plan is to tow the race truck with my work truck , got 65 miles >to my first charge , I'm thinking of running the pfc 50 off the race truck >pack and have it help on the drive down . I have a friend down there that >I'll be staying with , so can't help you there. Got my 2k today , not much >time for testing . >steve clunn with 40 golfers in my work truck <snip>
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--- Begin Message ---Mike Chancey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Is it possible to identify a compatible sensor based on this info? I don't think so. The 65K between black and green is kind of high for a thermistor at 68F, but not impossible (just implies the use of an unusually high value thermistor). However, if the sensor were a simple thermistor, there would probably only be 2 wires between it and the charger. The presence of three wires and really high impedance on the other two wires makes me suspect an active sensor of some sort. At the very least, I think you would need to have some measurements taken of the voltages on these wires while the sensor is connected to the charger and the charger is running. > If not a sensor, can I make up a jumper to fool it into working? Possibly. If it is an active sensor, it is probably a reasonable starting assumption that the black wire is ground, the red is supply voltage, and the green is the temperature signal to the charger. If you can measure what voltage is on the green wire while the sensor is connected to the charger and the charger is running, then you might be able to wire up a simple voltage divider to fake it out. Since the charger and sensor don't seem to be in the same place, you might be able to fire up the charger and measure what voltage is present between the black and red wires; presumably it will be something like 5V. Check the voltage between green and black; hopefully it is 0V or near 0V. Then get yourself a high value potentiometer (perhaps 100K) and connect one end to black, and the other end to red. Set it so that the voltage between the wiper and the black wire is 0V, then connect the wiper to the green wire. Gradually adjust the pot until the charger starts up. Hopefully it does. If you know the amount of temperature compensation the charger applies (typically about 0.005V/cell/degree C), and/or the nominal voltage it is supposed to put out at some stardard temperature (usually in the vicinity of 25C), then you can note the output voltage and green-to-black voltage for several settings of the pot and figure out the relationship between sensor voltage and temperature. This will allow you to manually adjust the sensor to correct the charger voltage for seasonal temperature variations instead of using a fixed limit. Fortunately, if the sensor is an active one, it probably delivers a signal that varies linearly with temperature. > Another chapter member has a similar charger, from an older 144 Volt > Force. He would like to try to use it as an opportunity charger on > his 120 Volt pickup conversion. If the temp sensor issue can be > solved, is it possible to reduce the output voltage from 144 to 120 > by using a series of diodes in the output? A possibility would be to use the temperature sensor input to force the charger to lower the output voltage (i.e. fake the sensor out to tell the charger the batteries are hot), however, the difference between 144V and 120V is probably too large to handle in this way (I figure you'd need to fool the charger into thinking the batteries are about 80C hotter than nominal, which should probably result in the charger refusing to charge instead of just dropping the voltage). You could use diodes to drop the output, but you are looking at having to drop something like 29V to get the absoption voltage right. Assuming about 1V drop per diode, this is going to be 29-30 diodes rated to carry the full output current of the charger (probably at least 10A?). Another possibility is to use an "amplified zener", which is a normal zener of the appropriate voltage connected to a transistor beefy enough to handle the required current and to dissipate the required power (about 300W assuming 29V drop and 10A max current). The diode approach has the advantage of spreading the 300W power dissipation over many devices (about 10W each), but you will need a good heatsink and/or fan in either case. Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---Roger wrote: > I would suggest that you locate the charger and contactors > in the box with the batteries. When the truck is off, the > contrator(s) are open and no battery voltage is present > outside of the battery box. In case you are having anything >inside< the battery box that can create a spark, make sure that you Force-Vent the box, or you will see the lid come off by its own force very soon. EVEN when you are running sealed batteries, you should have some ventilation, as high charge current can still make the batteries vent hydrogen. In fact, my recommendation would be to mount an additional box outside the battery compartment, it can be bolted right to the side or front of the battery box and the wires run into that box, but make _sure_ you seal the openings between the two with something like caulk, so the gasses don't do from the battery box to the place where you are making and breaking contacts. Some experience from Solar installations is talking here, I saw pictures of a inverter/charge controller that was wired according code with conduit to the battery box, so the sealed battery box was happily venting its fumes into the controller and no wonder that at the end of the day when the controller kicked a relay over the controller box opened itself. Safe charging! Cor van de Water Systems Architect Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925 Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130 Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743 Take your network further http://www.proxim.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Roger Stockton Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:58 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Battery Box in the back of a Pickup Mike & Paula Willmon wrote: > Any body thats done a pickup and put the batteries "in" the > bed? It has been done. The advantage is that the batteries are easy to access, and it fills the box so that you are lessa ta risk of severely overloading the vehicle by filling the box with something when the vehicle is already at/over GVWR due to a full load of batteries under the box. The downside is that the vehicle will handle better and usually looks cleaner if you put the batteries under the bed between the frame rails and modify the box to tilt up for almost as easy access as if the batteries were in the box. > I'm wondering that since I'm building a box back there > if putting the charger and controller in boxes of their own > off to each side would be cleaner and/or safer than under the > hood. If I do this I can consolidate all the pack and > charging wires inside the boxes. The only high voltage that > would need to run to the front would be the motor wires and > aux power wires. Any thoughts? Locating the charger with the pack is fine, but you don't want to locate the controller there. The wires between the controller and motor should be kept as short (and stout) as possible, and this is hard to do if the motor is under the hood and the controller is behind the cab. Even with the controller up front you still have only 2 traction (high) voltage wires going up under the hood: pack +ve and -ve to the controller input. Given that you seem to want to minimise the number of high voltage wires under the hood, I would suggest that you locate the charger and contactors in the box with the batteries. When the truck is off, the contrator(s) are open and no battery voltage is present outside of the battery box. The charger needs to connect to the battery side of the contactors, so locating it near the batteries makes sense. This also keeps the AC connection to the charger out from under the hood. You may then want to have a manual service disconnect under the hood, such as an appropriate Anderson SB connector, so that you can physically unplug the battery wires from the controller before working on anything. Cheers, Roger.
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