EV Digest 5122
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Whooie, elec does it again!
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: budget EV insurance update
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: How to Convert - For fun and Profit - Without getting Sued
by kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: OT: Prius tires
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: How to Convert - For fun and Profit - Without getting Sued
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Whooie, elec does it again!
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Whooie, elec does it again!
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Give Up on ElectraVan
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: budget EV insurance update
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Yet another conversion and another question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: budget EV insurance update
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Whooie, elec does it again!
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Mazda
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Give Up on ElectraVan
by "Michael A. Radtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Give Up on ElectraVan
by "Michael A. Radtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Motor Rebuild, Replace, or Give Up
by "Michael A. Radtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: How to Convert - For fun and Profit - Without getting Sued
by kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Plenty of room for Joule Injected improvement - Part 1
by "Matthew D. Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 12volt alternator or dc-dc convertor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Anticipation
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: budget EV insurance update
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Whooie, elec does it again!
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Anticipation
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 24 Jan 2006 at 7:24, John Wayland wrote:
> I find the AC Propulsion tactics tiring.
I didn't get the impression that this was an AC Propulsion project. It appears
that "Wrightspeed" just bought an ACP powertrain for it.
It does seem that Wrightspeed is not entirely in touch with what's going on in
EV drag racing. (But then I didn't know that Dennis had gotten down into the
8-second quarter mile range, so I guess I shouldn't talk. ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Victor,
The only other people that drives my car, also have a blanket
insurance that covers them. These are normally people who work on
the paint finish of my car about once a year for detailing. They are
only moving it a short distance in there shops.
I preset the control system and switches so all they have to do is
just turn on the ignition switch and press the accelerator, other
wise its in a full security mode, where you have to turn over 42
switches that act like a cyfer security lock system to make it go.
So I am the only one that knows how to start it up.
>
Roland
Roland, I appreciate that, but that should make no difference as far
as coverage goes. If I'll tell my insurance company my
ICE is equipped with a security lock requiring fiddling with
42 switches to start the car, they don't care. That's not a basis for
issuing single person insurance for multiple cars I'm afraid.
How do you prove to them you don't have family members who
knows how to drive the car? They have to take your
word for it, and I'm not sure it's going to fly with mainstream
insurance companies. I may be wrong, I never asked my insurer
about this (I will though and report what they say).
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
I mean, we live in a country where a burglar can break a window on your house
in order to gain illegal entry, cut himself on the broken glass
and then sue YOU for having such a dangerous situation...and win. Don't laugh,
it's happened.
When? Where? Seriously. If you're going to make decisions - like whether to
convert a car to electric - based on a belief that this is an
accurate assessment of the risk involved, you should take care to make sure
you're basing your opinion on fact, not propaganda. Most
people's belief that America is a wildly litigious country is based on stories
about phony lawsuits that either never happened at all, or claims that
were filed by some nut without a lawyer and promptly thrown out of court. (If
you haven't figured it out by now, I work in a law firm, and
although my firm isn't involved in injury litigation, I know the reality up
close. Reading this stuff is like hearing the gen-on-a-wheel idea for the
200th time for me.) In fact, lawsuits over injuries have been declining on a
per capita basis for decades. There is a real risk that you can
injure someone seriously any time you do something like alter a carefully
designed motor vehicle to operate in a manner other than it was
designed for. If you do, a major financial loss can occur, and its either
going to be borne by you or the person you are responsible for
injuring. Thats the real risk, and its one that has to be realistically
faced. Blaming it on burglars suing you for having glass windows is a cop-
out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 23, 2006, at 1:24 PM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
Paul G. wrote:
What is recommended?
175/65R14
33 tires listed in that size. Nothing in particular jumped out at
me.. Might read some reviews on various tires. Certain tires get rave
reviews. Other are nothing but complaints of tires being noisy, only
lasting 10,000 miles, or having no traction, etc..
That is about what I found. Even looking online for Prius web sites
that discuss tires I didn't find that many for the older ones with the
14 inch wheels (especially in recently updated sites.) I've looked at a
number of online reviews of tires.
The P3000 Pirelli is now available in that size. Its an 85,000 mile
tire with generally good online ratings (for what its worth), in
particular rain traction (I'm the pacific north wet after all.) I've
found them available for under $70 each and am leaning toward that
tire. If I choose it I will be able to comment on its rolling
resistance based on what it does to the Prius fuel mileage :-)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:41 AM 1/24/2006, kluge wrote:
When? Where? Seriously. If you're going to make decisions - like
whether to convert a car to electric - based on a belief that this is an
accurate assessment of the risk involved, you should take care to
make sure you're basing your opinion on fact, not propaganda. Most
people's belief that America is a wildly litigious country is based
on stories about phony lawsuits that either never happened at all,
Try reading www.StellaAwards.com
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1/24/06, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 23 Jan 2006 at 23:03, Rush wrote:
>
> According to both websites cited, the car has achieved a quarter mile time
> of 11.95 seconds. I don't know whether that's official, and I don't
> follow
> EV drag racing that closely, but it seems to me that somebody on this list
> has run low in the 11s with a more or less street legal EV
> setup. Yes? No?
My understanding is that the fastest street legal EV we generally talk about
is White Zombie at 12.151 in the 1/4 mile. However, if that car gets
11.95does that mean it's the world's "World's
Quickest & Fastest 'Street Legal Electric Car'"? Does it meet NEDRA rules?
-Mike
**
**
**
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 08:59:30 -0800, "Don Cameron"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>What would be nice to see is the AC Propulsion powered Venturi Fetish
>compared against these cars. But... the fetish costs $600k, so maybe it
>would be better to compare it to more expensive ICE cars.
What would be even nicer would be if AC quit the stunts and built an
actual, practical car that an ordinary person could afford. Preferably
one that is only half as butt-ugly as their stunt cars.
No knowing anyone involved and judging only from outward appearances,
this bunch reminds me of the childish dot.bombers who ran through
their funding playing games instead of making saleable product.
John
PS: If they want to do an actual hotrod-vs-hotrod, let's roll out a
Callaway or Linginfelter 'Vette or a nicely warmed up Buick GN and see
who comes out on top.
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Another way to reduce ripple current is to add capacators to
> the input of the controller.
Different ripple; bus caps on the input help to reduce battery ripple
current, but do nothing for the motor ripple current (well, actually,
they could even make the motor ripple *larger*! ;^). An inductor in
series with the motor will reduce motor ripple current and battery
ripple current.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Before Everyone Jumps their insurance Agents about their liability
coverage,Check with your local Motor Vehicle Offices. What Roland is doing must
be legal in his state, it is not nessecarily legal in ALL STATES.
For Example: In Arizona the law requires Each Vehicle to have insurance and
each drive gets assigned to that vehicle to be insured. I have 3 vehicles and
each has a policy against it. Then Myself and my wife are attached to 2 of them
while I am the only person driving the Motorcycle due to licensing so I am the
only insured person on it. Each State has it's own laws but will recognize the
requirements from other states as a vistor. While I don't like it because it
drives up the prices, but that is the legal requirement. Same would go for self
bonding. I would require a bond for each vehicle. Not for each driver.
Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Roland,
Maybe I misunderstand or misinterpret what the DMV or DPS says but where I
have lived it was required to provide proof of insurance on the vehicle you
were insuring. They looked for the VIN/model on the insurance card or they
wouldn't insure you. In fact they starting impounding cars down here as of late
if you didn't have an up to date insurance card proving that vehicle is covered
when they pull you over for speeding and such.
Maybe all this time they have been saying "proof the vehicle is insured" only
meant the person owning the vehicle has to have auto liability coverage but my
agent nor the DMV/DPS/Police would ever say such a thing. Given I have zero
claims against any insurance and only carry liability I'll have to give this a
look since I have at least twice sold a car because I didnt' use it enough to
justify paying insurance on it.
Mark Hastings
Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Darin,
I am going to give you some information that a lot of vehicle insurance
companies don't want you to know.
Liability insurance is on the person, not the vehicle. The person is liable,
not the vehicle. It does not make any difference if the vehicle is worth
$10,000.00 or $1,000,000.00. Both of the vehicles will do about the same amount
of damage. The $10,000.00 vehicle may do more damage.
I have three cars that I am the only one that drives them. All three vehicles
are under the same liability coverage. One is a $60,000.00 sports car, one is a
Classic in original condition that is about $40,000.00 and then the EV which I
have is over $50,000.00.
I have one proof of insurance card that I carry from vehicle to vehicle. If I
drive your car, it is cover. If I drive a rental car, it is cover by the same
liability policy. If you used your credit car to rent a car, then the collision
damage is cover by them.
Now some insurance companies won't do a blanket coverage for multiple vehicles.
When you shop for insurance, they won't even consider that. Some advertise that
they will same you money if you insure with them. Sometimes I call these
companies to see how much they can save me. So far everyone is over triple or
one was ten times the cost of my insurance. The one with the animal rat was the
worst.
My insurance company is The Hartford. They insure you the person for liability.
I do not insure any of my vehicles for collision, except for other than
collision cause by objects.
They actually send you a check in with two or three days, in case the other
other person who cause the damage takes a long time to pay for the damage. If
they do, I send the check back to them. If the other person does not pay right
away, then my insurance check pays for the damage and the Hartford contacts the
other person insurance company for payment directly to them.
Glass damage is a separate item where they paid for 100 percent of the damage.
I just call it in, and they give me a Work Order No. and a phone number to the
Hartford which pays them directly.
Insurance is a betting game, you bet all the damage that is cause to your
vehicle by yourself is less than all the collision insurance premiums you will
have for the next 50 years.
In my case, in the last 50 years, I have only $129.00 worth of damage. Other
people have cause $1000.00 of damage to my vehicles while they were park.
The cost of full insurance for one car for that many years, will alone buy you
several new cars.
Insuring multiple vehicles is like insuring only one, you cannot drive all of
them at the same time, so only one is insure while you are driving it.
They don't care what equipment you carry on the vehicle because it is not
insured unless you get a separate equipment policy for it. It's the same as
insuring a computer, cameras, or any thing you carry in the car.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Darin
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 3:13 PM
Subject: budget EV insurance update
After striking out twice last week trying to obtain only liability
insurance on a "non-professional" (hobbyist) EV conversion with through
my broker and a second insurance company, I received several suggestions
from list members that I simply try an insurer used by other EV owners.
I did so this morning, and was successful (was quoted a 3rd party
liability rate comparable to my ICE vehicle).
The insurance company's initial concern was the same: i.e. who is doing
the conversion?
My partner in this project is an industrial electrician, and those words
seemed to satisfy their concern (after a moderately suspenseful "please
hold while I check with my manager"). This information had been
unacceptable to the companies I tried last week.
Their only (reasonable) request was that they may ask for a
post-conversion inspection of the vehicle by a professional mechanic of
their choosing in my area.
For the record (and the archive), I'm in Ontario, and the obliging
insurance company is Melloche Monnex.
Darin
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays,
whatever.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In looking at the relays today, their coils are marked as
> 24V int and 18V con. Which I take to mean that they are
> only designed for 18 volts continuously on the coil. Is
> there a simple way to get them to operate off of the 24V
> traction pack that I intend to have on the bike other than
> multiple diodes to get the voltage drop?
The simple way is to place a resistor in series with each coil. Connect
the coil to 24V and measure the current it draws, then calculate the
appropriate resistor as R = 6/I ohms, where I is the measured current in
amps. You also need to figure out the power dissipation of this
resistor, since it could be significant: P = 6*I watts. Choose a
resistor rated for about 2x the computed power to provide a safety
margin. Finally, you may want to connect a capacitor in parallel with
the resistor (the capacitor bypasses the resistor when you first switch
on the relay so that the coil sees the full 24V for a brief time while
pulling in).
The slightly more complicated way is to search up the datasheet for the
DRV-101 or DRV-102 solenoid driver ICs. One is a high side switch
(switches the +ve supply to the coil), the other switches the -ve side;
you only need one or the other. With a simple resistor and capacitor
you can configure either part to apply full voltage to the coil for a
set time at turn on and then cut back to a set % duty cycle (75% for 18V
with a 24V supply) continuously. This is a much more efficient and
elegant solution, but more costly (I think the DRV parts cost about $5
each, however, they are Burr Brown/TI parts and you can probably get 3-5
free samples overnight from TI via Digikey.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hastings wrote:
> Maybe I misunderstand or misinterpret what the DMV or DPS says but
> where I have lived it was required to provide proof of insurance
> on the vehicle you were insuring.
At least in the three states where I have lived (MI, NY, and MN),
"insurance" per se wasn't actually required. It was the banks and
lending institutions that required insurance on the vehicle itself, so
they got their money even if you totalled it. Once the vehicle was paid
off and there were no outstanding leinholders, this requirement
vanished.
As for the driver, you had to submit proof of financial liability of
some minimum amount. Insurance was the obvious way to provide this. But,
you could also post a bond, or your house, or other collateral to prove
that you could pay in case of an accident.
I've only bought one car in my life with a loan; my first car when I got
out of college and had a lot of education loans to pay back. For every
other car, I save up until I can afford it, and pay cash. This also
explains why I tend to buy old used cars rather than new ones! :-)
Anyway, it means I don't buy insurance on my vehicles. I cover whatever
damage they incur out of my own pockets, or it's paid for by the guy who
hit me.
The state's liability coverage isn't that high; $20,000 to $50,000
depending on the state and what year we're talking about. Until I was
married, I had enough equity in my home to use it as collateral. So, I
self-insured about half the time. When I bought a home, within 5 years
or so I had enough equity and the house had appreciated enough in value
to pledge it as collateral. I had no dependents, and am a good driver;
so I didn't care if I lost the house or car due to an accident that was
my fault. Now, married with kids etc. my wife won't accept such an
attitude.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1/24/06, John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello to All,
>
> I love EVs....I love quick and fast EVs, however, to call the Wright
> Speed a 'car' is really a stretch. Showing this rolling tube chassis
> beating expensive exotica seems silly. This thing doesn't have a roof,
> or doors or any real body to speak of. It's a rolling tube skeleton
> being tauted as a 'car'...give me a break!
Agreed. I think Top Gear called the Ariel Atom (from which that is
converted) a four wheel motorcycle when they reviewed it (they loved it).
But it is (at least in the U.K.) a street legal car. And don't get me wrong,
I think that it and WZ are truely in different classes, but would it meet
NEDRA rules?
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I've been looking at the Mazada 3 Hatchback (aka "5 Door") as
> a possible donor vehicle for a (very) future project. This is
> based on looks alone - I'm not sure why but the car looks good
> to me.
When I was considering converting the Mazda 626, I talked to one
mechanic - not an EV buff at all - and he had one piece of advice....
"When you need a new upper control arm, if it's a Mazda, it will be
$500 more than for a Ford....it doesn't matter what kind of engine
you have."
I don't know if the Mazda 3 is any different...
BTW, I thought of the same question regarding lights.
Should we include Headlights in the checklist?
It seems to me, sealed headlights would automatically
exclude future enhancements like LED bulbs
(or other lighting technology - I understand LED's
have their own issues).
BTW, they are stealing HID headlights in NJ these "daze".
It took them two tries 5 days apart to get a complete set
from my neighbor...(I think he needs to join NRA :-)
(I was suggesting a Van-de-Graf Security System.
Other than it being felonous :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the note Rod.
I've thought about that. If and when I pull the motor, I'll see if I
can sort out the brush timing.
Thanks,
Mike
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Give Up on ElectraVan
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:53:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
This may be too obvious, but I thought I would mention
it.
The GE motor you have is the one given to many high
schools
and colleges when I worked at GE back in the early to
mid 90's.
The Honda civic had a transmission that turned the
opposite direction of that intended. This caused lots
of arcing and sparcing not to mention less efficient
opperation. Since the brushes are advanced for one
direction of rotation I wonder if your vehicle is
turning in the opposite. Sorry I can't find the
proper rotation, but I think it can be found in the
archives.
Rod
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael A. Radtke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > From my earlier post, you may have seen that my
> Jet
> > ElectraVan is down again, this time in an
> expensive way.
>
> Sorry to hear of your EV problems, however, for what
> it is worth, I
> think that there is something wrong with your
> particular sample. That
> is, other people with the GE motors have/are
> enjoying much better
> reliability and brush life than yours has
> demonstrated. This motor is
> plenty big for the application and I seriously doubt
> that there is any
> problem at all with the votlage you are feeding it
> since others have
> happily run these motors anywhere from 96V to 120V
> (and likely well
> beyond in racing).
>
> I would lean toward suspecting the motor controller
> possibly subjecting
> the motor large amount of ripple current, which
> might accelerate the
> brush and comm wear (think of it being something
> like continuously
> switching the motor between full off and full on, so
> that instead of a
> fairly even modest average current it sees a few to
> several hundred amps
> for a short time, then nothing, then a few hundred
> amps, etc. This
> thought is based on my assumption that you are still
> running the
> original SCR controller.
>
> It might be that something is not quite right with
> your controller, or
> it might just be a fact of life with this controller
> and such a
> (relatively) small inductance motor.
>
> Due to the collector nature of the vehicle, you may
> be reluctant to
> change anything from stock. If so, then your only
> option would seem to
> be trying to determine if there is something amiss
> with the controller
> and getting it corrected so your next set of brushes
> and comm last
> longer.
>
> If you are willing to modify the car you have a few
> options. Money
> being no object, replace the SCR controller with a
> Z1k and enjoy all the
> performance your EV is capable of (more than you
> ever thought it had
> ;^). If that is too much of a stretch, replace the
> SCR controller with
> a Curtis 1231C; performance will remain similar to
> the original, but you
> should have better (possibly much better) range.
> Finally, if even that
> is too much, you could try to verify the SCR
> controller is working
> properly, then add a large inductor in series with
> the motor. David
> Chapman (also in your area) is a good source for
> such inductors
> (surplus/takeout 'reactors' from the output side of
> large welders). If
> the large ripple current is stressing your motor,
> the addition of the
> inductor will help smooth it and should reduce the
> stress on the motor.
>
> Perhaps Jim Husted can offer some thoughts on
> possible failures/defects
> that your motor might have that could reduce its
> inductance or make it
> eat brushes unusually quickly? My thinking is that
> while the motor
> might have accidentally been fitted with the wrong
> brush material in the
> first place, or you might have been given the wrong
> material when
> replacing them, it seems unlikely that you would get
> the same low life
> in both cases. For instance, do you hear any sort
> of roughness when the
> motor spins? A raised comm bar early in the motor's
> life might cause it
> to eat brushes quickly; if this condition went
> undetected when you
> replaced the brushes, they would also wear
> prematurely. The good news
> is that since you rcomm is now damaged, if a raised
> bar were the
> problem, it will be corrected when the motor is
> repaired. How about a
> short between a field winding and the motor case, or
> just a short
> between turns of a field winding? If this results
> in a decrease in
> motor inductance, then your motor will experience
> more extreme ripple
> current than otherwise identical motor/controller
> pairs. I'm sure Jim
> can come up with more possibilities.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
Thanks for your note.
Well, you certainly are emitting enthusiasm! Perhaps that's what I
need. I'm beaten down at the moment, and if I can catch up on all my
other responsibilities, perhaps I'll get the motor pulled and take
pictures for everyone. At the moment though, I am still considering
getting out from under.
Thanks for the encouragement,
Mike
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Give Up on ElectraVan
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 23:20:26 -0800
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
snip_
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
Thanks for taking the time for the long reply. What I will do is walk
away from this for a while and maybe my enthusiasm will return.
Thanks again for the good words,
Mike
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Motor Rebuild, Replace, or Give Up
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:17:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Hey Mike
Okay being the brushes have the black color they are probably very
carbon based, and are what is called a soft brush. Even though you
can't mark it with your finger nail. The grey H-100 grades that
although can easily be scratched by your nail are the harder brush,
Sounds wierd I know. So you would do "Better" with the H-100 grade.
Theres more to it and they have different properties, ect. Now you may
have a small bar lift as someone suggested but I suspect you would have
heard the tick, tick, tick it would make. If you didn't have the
armature comm turned before you put the new set in well then you
wouldn't get the life that was given by the original first set. Every
brush set will last less if they are put into a motor with an out of
round or grooved comm. You in fact may be running the motor with the
advancement reversed. To many what if's for me to guess at without a
pic or seeing it first hand. Being others have had good success with
the same type of set up!
, there
is either a motor issue or a controller issue that is causing the motor
to show the symtems but is in fact not to blame. At this point the
motor has been damaged, so repair / replacement of the controller if it
is the problem will not fix your issue alone. From what you describe
the motor has a good chance at needing a basic repair. Those big GE's
can take a fair amount of abuse, from my low voltage accounts I speak
this with great authority. There is really nothing more I can do here
without at least some pics. Try to use this as the lesson it is. There
should never be the assumtion that this is all going to be easy, and
flawless. These post are where others learn and grow and get the
incouragement to continue with their fight, so although it may take you
some time become an informed consumer like you are to plot your next
course and then set sail toward that goal as best you can. Be not
discouraged, I'm sure even Waylands had those times when it seemed
everything !
was
aginst him. Sharing this issue with others is living in the real world
and not trying to paint a rosey picture for the world to see that is not
the truth. Stiffen that upper lip as I believe that there are many with
you in spirit and hoping you to continue, at least as an EV'er
Best of luck
Sorry I can't help more (yet)
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
snip_
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try reading www.StellaAwards.com
--
John G. Lussmyer
Thanks for the link. It's very informative - not least in the fact that all
the "burglar sues after cutting hand on broken glass" type of lawsuit stories
are identified as being "fabricated." Out of the last
three years of "Awards" all but one of the listed lawsuits involve a company
suing an individual or an injury lawsuit that has not resulted in any award to
the plaintiff - the sole exception is the woman
who was accidentally locked in a storage locker for 63 days, was rescued
weighing 83 pounds, and was awarded $100,000. I don't know any of the facts
behind that one, but it's certainly not going
to make me lose any sleep.
And that's from a source that is actively looking for the worst litigation
horror stories it can find.
Like I said - frivolous litigation is not a real problem - it's the
"gen-on-a-wheel" of the legal system. But the possibility of serious loss and
injury is, which is why dealing with that possibility shouldn't be
ignored.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey everyone,
Well, I guess everyone is aware that there's still a few miles per hour
separating Joule Injected from the 100 mph club. You could definitely say
I'm disappointed, but like the email subject line says, there's plenty of
room for improvement! Although I used to drag race my '77 Camaro up in
Maryland years ago, I only have about 12 or 15 passes total (in a car) under
my belt. As Rod mentioned recently regarding Dennis's experience, "practice
makes perfect", and I've got a long way to go to get there! Certainly the
car can still use a little tweaking, but I am absolutely thrilled with how
much potential it has. . .it's the guy behind the wheel who really needs to
improve his technique. :-)
I'm just going to concentrate on Joule Injected in this post, because
otherwise there will be eight parts to this story. Lowell will be posting
about the Porsche (at least he will now!) And hopefully he, Cliff or Shawn
will comment on the autocross soon.
As Shawn mentioned in his post, Friday night was super busy at the track.
Lowell, Cliff and I pulled into the tech inspection lane a little late in
the day, and I swear there must have been thirty cars in front of us. By the
time we got closer to the front, there were probably another forty or fifty
behind us. This is one of those things you can hardly plan for. . .the
locals down here must have just been itching to go racing, after the short
"winter" break the track took over the holidays.
While we were in line, I took the time to drop the pressure in the big, rear
drag radials down to about 16 psi. Next, I moved onto the settings for the
Zilla. Then. . .hang out and chat while the cars creep up the lane. Lowell
and I decided we'd pull directly into line afterwards to get a quick run in,
hopefully before even more cars showed up. So after tech inspection, which
went off without a problem, we did just that.
Around 8:15 that night, we're getting up to the front of the line. I was
excited to use more of the features of the Zilla this time, namely option J
that would permit a burnout without going into parallel. I was sure I'd get
close to, if not exceed 100 mph on this first run! Lowell and I are matched
up to go at the same time. We're waved in and I get ready to start the data
acquisition and do the burnout. This time, I actually set up properly over
the water box, jam on the brakes and tromp on the accelerator. The car does
a nice burnout and, just as directed, never goes into parallel. Good! No
lurching, disconcerting behavior like the Sunday before. Lowell and I creep
up to the staging line together. . .both lights lit. . .down the tree. .
.launch! Everything feels perfect at first, but mere seconds into the run
and it's clear this one won't get it. No shift to parallel. My 1/8 mile
speed was 69.43 mph, and I only made it to 79.51 by the end of the quarter
in 15.025 seconds.
After Lowell and I get back to the pits, it was like we're speaking in
stereo: "Did you shift?", "I didn't shift!", "Did you?", "No, I didn't
shift!" What was going on? Five minutes later, Lowell's got it figured out,
"I never had the option set to shift automatically!" Man, I wish my problem
was the same! I pored over the data, furiously converting all the hex values
and trying to see where I went wrong. No bad status codes, all options set
properly, but no attempt at shifting. While the car's happily charging away,
I go over the process in my head. At this point, I'm second guessing every
move I made. When did I start data acquisition? Did I leave it in Valet
Mode? Could I have had the parallel switch on, disabling the automatic
shift? I had recently added the cut-off switch on the back of the car up to
the main contactor. . .now I'm seeing an error code for high resistance
across main contactor. Is that involved?
By the time the car is charged up, I'm still no closer to an answer. Nothing
is clearly presenting itself as the culprit, so I make a bit of a leap that
either my procedure was somehow to blame, or it was due to a (hopefully)
intermittent problem with some signal to the Hairball. Possibly a value
fluctuated enough, like maybe the accelerator input, to the point where it
didn't meet the criteria for shifting. I head back out to the track to put
the theory to test, and remedy any failure I might have made.
When I get back up to the front of the line around 10:30 PM I'm really
feeling the pressure. It has *got* to do it this time! After I'm waved in I
pull off a great burnout and my confidence starts to rise a bit. I start the
data acquisition procedure, but immediately realize I've failed to capture
it to a data file. Oh well, too late now. I pull up to the line, stage and
launch hard! This feels like my best launch ever! But then seconds later,
there's no lurch of the car that would be characteristic of the shift into
parallel. I go ahead and finish the run in series anyway. It turns out to,
in fact, be my best launch ever. A 1.805 second 60-foot time! I'm ecstatic
about that, but my quarter mile time of 14.835 at 79.54 mph just isn't
indicative of what the car can do. I'm determined to put this all together!
All the EV fans that came out for Battery Beach Burnout, and all the unaware
conventional race fans deserve a show!
. . .to be continued in Part 2 (okay, so you already know what happens, but
read Part 2 anyway!)
Matt Graham
300V "Joule Injected" Nissan
http://www.jouleinjected.com <http://www.jouleinjected.com>
Hobe Sound, FL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Granted, it does not happen frequently, but I have been in a traffic
> jam that lasted 4.5 hours before I could leave the freeway. I could
> not shut down the car, as it was a queue of several miles of 3 lanes
> emptying via a 1-lane local road with many traffic lights. Avg speed
> less than 2 MPH. No problem with DC/DC but a serious breakdown when
> I would have been there in EV with deep cycle aux battery.
What were you running with your 12v system that would have drained the
battery in 4.5 hours? Was this at night in the rain with everything
turned on?
On my EVs, the *maximum* load on the 12v system is around 25-30 amps;
headlights, wipers, radio, etc. My accessory battery could run this load
for a 1-2 hours. But the *typical* load was more like 5 amps -- that's
enough to hold in the contactors, run the radio, and a few other misc.
loads like intermittent wipers or parking lights. The accessory battery
could power all this for your 4.5 hours. There were occasions where I
forgot to turn my EV off and it sat all day in the parking lot at work,
and still had enough 12v power to drive home.
> My Prius (not the latest model) is heated with engine heat,
> no electrical heater.
Our 2001 Prius *does* have an elctric heater. It is a small one, about
300 watts, powered off the 12v system. It isn't enough to heat the car,
but does provide enough to preven the "icy blast on your feet" when you
first start out, and it does work to take the fog off the windshield.
> I would always go for a DC/DC because a battery needs to be
> replaced regularly, while (at least in theory) the DC/DC
> should live longer than the car, so it is a one-time thing.
I agree, the DC/DC should last longer. However, most people use cheap
power supplies for their DC/DC converters that weren't built for the
purpose, and aren't very reliable in an automotive environment.
> With constant keeping the (much smaller) battery charged,
> it will live much longer than the cyclic use of a deep
> cycle battery that is not charged while driving.
That would be true if your DC/DC was a proper battery charger. But most
aren't -- they just float-charge the battery, usually with no
temperature compensation, and at the wrong voltage. The voltage is
chosen to emulate a car's alternator, not a proper float voltage.
Batteries rarely last more than a few years if treated this way.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just got back from seeing it.
--- Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> By my estimation, "Who Killed..." was shown to the public
> for the first time just as I was dozing off last night....
> (8:30 in Utah?)
>
> and no-one has given a review on the list yet!
>
> I can't take it!
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If a unauthorized person takes your car, or steels it, your insurance covers
it. Anyway all my family members are dead, except one who is in a retirement
home. Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Victor Tikhonov<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: budget EV insurance update
Roland Wiench wrote:
> Hello Victor,
>
> The only other people that drives my car, also have a blanket
> insurance that covers them. These are normally people who work on
> the paint finish of my car about once a year for detailing. They are
> only moving it a short distance in there shops.
>
> I preset the control system and switches so all they have to do is
> just turn on the ignition switch and press the accelerator, other
> wise its in a full security mode, where you have to turn over 42
> switches that act like a cyfer security lock system to make it go.
>
> So I am the only one that knows how to start it up.
>
> Roland
Roland, I appreciate that, but that should make no difference as far
as coverage goes. If I'll tell my insurance company my
ICE is equipped with a security lock requiring fiddling with
42 switches to start the car, they don't care. That's not a basis for
issuing single person insurance for multiple cars I'm afraid.
How do you prove to them you don't have family members who
knows how to drive the car? They have to take your
word for it, and I'm not sure it's going to fly with mainstream
insurance companies. I may be wrong, I never asked my insurer
about this (I will though and report what they say).
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I love EVs....I love quick and fast EVs, however, to call the Wright Speed
a 'car' is really a stretch. Showing this rolling tube chassis beating
expensive exotica seems silly. This thing doesn't have a roof, or doors or
any real body to speak of. It's a rolling tube skeleton being tauted as a
'car'...give me a break! It's another one of AC Propulsion's tricks of
using something that barely passes as a car, then pitting it against real
cars.
The car is an Aerial Atom, in ICE form the fastest accelerating road car in
the world (with supercharged V-tec). It's also one of the best handling cars
in the world and is an awsome car to throw around a track. It's the
spiritual sucessor of the Lotus 6 or 7, the minimum amount of car for the
job. Costing £28,000 it's beaten the worlds most powerful, exotic, and
expensive supercars around a moderately tight test track.
It's not a fair comparison.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just teasing everyone with the short response, a review is coming.
It'll be under another subject.
--- David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just got back from seeing it.
>
> --- Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > By my estimation, "Who Killed..." was shown to the public
> > for the first time just as I was dozing off last night....
> > (8:30 in Utah?)
> >
> > and no-one has given a review on the list yet!
> >
> > I can't take it!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
