EV Digest 5130
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: OT - New Name for the EVDL
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) registering a conversion in CT
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: OT - New Name for the EVDL
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) 10HP 48V Taylor-Dunn motor?
by kluge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Ampabout ... You just have to a little faith baby
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Futurecrush
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: NAPA - Exide Deep Cycle Batteries - Update
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: NAPA - Exide Deep Cycle Batteries - Update
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Advice on relay coils
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Well crap!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 10HP 48V Taylor-Dunn motor?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Advice on relay coils
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: OT - New Name for the EVDL
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Futurecrush
by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Price going up --> Exide Deep Cycle Batteries
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: NAPA - Exide Deep Cycle Batteries - Update
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Exide Deep Cycle Batteries
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Futurecrush
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: NAPA - Exide Deep Cycle Batteries - Update
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: New use for electric motors in 1884
by Brian Cole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Raptor 600
by "Jim Seibert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Futurecrush
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) How to download? (Re: Futurecrush)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: How to download? (Re: Futurecrush)
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) 99 Ranger EV on E-Bay in LA (no reserve) Item number: 4607082651
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: Exide Deep Cycle Batteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: 99 Ranger EV on E-Bay in LA (no reserve) Item number: 4607082651
by Curtis Keller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Advice on relay coils
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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The general direction of the EVDL has definitely changed over the years.
Ten years ago I recall much less racing discussion, though there's always
been interest in going fast.
I recall John Wayland as being heavily into car audio competitions in those
days; I'm pretty sure I used to have a car audio magazine with one of his
Datsuns on the cover. I think Dennis Berube was racing then, but I don't
recall him posting to the list about it (Dennis, please correct me if I'm
wrong). Bob Schneeveis was still running Snow White into the mid-90s or so
and it got some mentions here, but not many. Ed Rannberg had built some
racers.
Certainly there was racing, but rather than drag racing, it was more track
racing with university teams (Formula Lightning, APS Electrics). I don't
think many of the racers were on the EVDL. If NEDRA even existed, it was
just getting started.
I suppose a bit of age makes us transform the old days into the Good Old
Days, but it seems to me that back then you could still mention
commercializing EVs, laws encouraging EVs, or EVs' environmental benefits,
without having someone ridicule you. We even managed to discuss EV-related
politics without coming to blows. Most of the flame wars were over AC vs.
DC and flooded vs. AGM. Once in a while a bit of a tiff broke out over fast
and short range vs. slow and long range, or series charging vs. modular
charging.
The internet was still peopled by highly educated, technically adroit, and
(reasonably) well socialized folks. We were just beginning to see the
influx of participants from AOL and other mass-appeal providers.
Things here thus tended to be more collegial. Listers did get into spats,
but we didn't see too much of the kind of bludgeoning and head-banging
that's become more common on the list lately. Mostly they scrapped with
numbers. Now and then when somebody was being really dense, the other guy
would go in with a nice sharp knife and eviscerate him so cleanly that he
didn't even notice. (The rest of us did though. ;-)
The Crest archives (originally set up and paid for by Mike Thompson) have
not been active for some years now. But their old logs are still online and
include EVDL traffic from August 1997 to October 2002. It's intriguing to
see what's changed (and what hasn't) since those days.
http://crest.org/discussion/ev/
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
I have good news to share about registering a
conversion in CT (Dave Cover, i am looking at you);
once you figure out how who to call, it is very easy.
In CT, emissions inspection is privatized. As a
result, when you register a used car that you bought
out of state, they give you a ten day tag, tell you to
go to a garage and have the emmisions checked and VIN
verified, then go back to DMV to get a permanent
registration. If you are emissions exempt (pre 1980 or
post 2004 or over xxxxx lbs), then all you need is a
VIN verification. They still do this at the inspection
lane at DMV. (this is what the guy at the dmv branch
office told me i needed to do with my fiero).
Unfortunately when i attached the ten day tags and
drove down to the inspection lane for my VIN check
last weekend, the inspectors shook their heads and
said 'how do i know this vehicle is exempt ? looks
like an '84 fiero to me. yup, VIN says '84
fiero...needs emissions test'.
Of course the local garage doing emissions testing
will say, 'i can't do an emmisions check on this
thing. There is no engine in it, gotta go to the DMV
inspection lane'. And so on...
I asked and asked and asked. Who in the state can
certify that this vehicle is emissions exempt, so i
can have a VIN verification done and get the car
registered. I got lots of blank looks and about 6
different opinions that made no sense at all (register
as a composite, register as new vehicle with new VIN
etc). I fought the urge to throw a tantrum and just
kept smiling and asking my question.
Finally, i got an answer that makes sense. There is a
Technical Center in Chesire, they will inspect your
car down there and give you a waiver for emisions.
Great...too bad Chesire is too far for me to drive and
by now my 10 day tag is expired. I guess I need to
trailer my car down there for an inspection...but when
I called the tech center, i was in for a surprise...
They sent an inspector to my house! Just two days
later (yesterday), at a time of my choosing, an
inspector came to my house to do an inspection to
verify the car was all electric and thus emissions
exempt. He showed up at 8:30 in a shiny new 'State of
CT' Prius. He poked around my car looking for any
signs of a gas tank or IC engine. He filled out a
couple forms (emissions waiver and VIN check) and he
was done.
today, i went back to the branch office with those
papers, and got my permanent plates. As a bonus, I
didn't have to pay sales tax on the car since EVs are
tax exempt in CT (i didn't mention that it wasn't
electric yet at the time i bought it).
so, the moral is (for me), fight the urge to freak
out. Smile and make polite conversation; somtimes it
works out.
For other CT EVers, the moral is, call the Tech Center
in Chesire 207-271-5427. They will hook you up.
can't wait to put the tags on and go for a spin.
~fortunat
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the reminder, Seven. It's been open a browser tab for days.
I'm watching it now and it seems very good.
-Mike
On 1/27/06, Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> It was nice to see someone respond to my POST about the Plug-In-Partners
> press conference, kicking off their nation wide campagin... even if it
> was just a press rlease from another news paper....
>
> After two days of seamingly nothing but EV Racing, Air Cars, and Worlds
> Quickest, or Fastest .....I was thinking we should just change the name
> of the EVDL to something like EVRO ( Electric Vehicle Racing Only )
>
> Yah... I know, I've got my butain lighter going here... But I fully
> realize how important EV Competition is ....Really I DO ! I love all
> aspects of EV Racing.. Just seems like it overtakes the
> EVDL somethimes....
>
> Makes me wonder where all the folks who are interested in other aspects
> of the EV world are. ??
>
> I love the EVDL and read it cover to cover twice a day....
>
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw this motor advertised by "HT Electric, Inc."
Taylor-Dunn D-385
36V, 3.5 HP, 2900RPM
48V, 10 HP, 1360RPM
Am I the only guy that looks wrong to? They haven't responded to my e-mail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My research did not find any EV repair shops in my area. There are
no local auto repair shops that will even touch my vehicle.
Mechanics are scared of anything that is different or which is not
known to be a quick-moneymaker.
A lot of research, legwork, and beating the bushes for a mechanic
to drop the motor, and let me repair the motor's bearings was
getting me nowhere.
Last week I went over to the house of one of our local EV God's who
lives in Palo Alto. He gave me a couple hours of his time in the
morning on Sunday. We put my EV up on drive up ramps to look under
the front at the motor and transmission.
He determined that the job could be done from underneath without
having to yank the batteries and battery racks out which are above
the motor. Good, that makes it easier work.
He offered his driveway and the loan of his gas car if I wanted to
do the work at his house. When the motor was out, he would replace
the bearings as he is a machinist by trade.
But declined his very gracious offer. I do not have the time (doing
College courses) and the experience to do that work. I am just too
busy and so I need a mechanic and a machinist to complete the
repair.
I thanked him because now I knew what to tell the mechanic what the
work involved. I felt better about what I was to say to a potential
mechanic and what not to say as to not scare them away.
I did get a lead from a Sacramento contact. There is an Auto Shop
in Auburn that is willing to do the work and take the motor to an
Auburn machinist shop to rework the motor. But that is a last
resort. Because I would have to rent a U-Haul truck and a flat bed
trailer, and spend a weekend driving it up and back (twice).
I got two nibbles on an ad I put up on Craigslist asking for a
mechanic to do the work. I had both come out to my work site to
check under the vehicle as it was parked in the company parking
lot.
The first one is an aircraft mechanic that lives in Redwood City
very close to me. He has room at his home to let the vehicle sit
while the motor is out, and he has a co-worker at work that will do
the machinist work.
He also said he will do the rest of the flood damage work I need
done: repack the wheel bearings, lube the grease fittings under the
vehicle, grease the steering, replace the transmission fluid (might
be contaminated with water), and check the differential gear oil
for water contamination.
The second one might have been cheaper but he did not sound as
experienced and he did not have place to let the vehicle sit while
the motor was being worked on. I went with the first one.
Thursday during my lunch period I drove my EV over to the guy's
home. I did a quickie review of how to drive my EV, and then let
him drive it into his back yard. Later he drove me back to my work.
I had already arranged to borrow a friend's gas car (Yuk) during
the time I would be without my EV wheels. I got sticker shock when
I paid the cost of filling the gas tank, and the iffy-lube
sticker on his windshield kept reminding me the ICE was due for
another petroleum-fix. I haven't had to pay that much for gas, or
have to lube an ICE in a very long time.
OK, things are looking better now. I just have to trust that the
mechanic & machinist do not burn me. But I am pretty good about
reading body language and knowing when I should put faith in
something (or maybe I have been just lucky).
It was like back in the 90's when I went Electric. After you do the
research and your homework, you just have to have a little faith
baby and go for it.
ta
-Bruce
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
A quick search of my gmail account is telling me that no one has posted this
before. It's a very nice little documentary on the EV1 and the recent
crushing of said car.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3974264721033016884&q=electric+car
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Steve and others:
> What is the finnish voltage / ampreage just before the charger shuts off
About 190 V. Wasn't able to measure Amps, but it seems to be pretty low.
> Do they bubble at the end of the charge?
Sure do.
>
> and those
>>> batteries have never been raped in any form.
>
> well'll be the judge of that :-)
Ok ;)
> I am
>>> still asking myself, if
>>> I might be responsible for the untimely death of
>>> those batteries .. any
>>> ideas?
>>>
> what is your max amp pull and what do you curse at ?
I am pulling approx. 200 Amps, sometimes 300 Amps during accelaration.
I usually cruise around 130-150 A @ 55 mph.
Michaela
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--- Begin Message ---
On 27 Jan 2006 at 8:33, STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> what is your max amp pull and what do you curse at ?
I curse at Exide batteries.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
John Luck Home wrote:
> My charger has a burned out relay that is switched by 24 volts AC.
> The only similar relays I can find have 24 volt DC rated coils.
> Does anyone know if this just means that they have a diode in series
> with the winding that I can take out, or will a 24V DC relay just
> work anyway with AC applied...
DC coils and AC coils on relays and contactors are two different things.
On DC, the only thing that limits the coil current is its DC resistance.
Simple to measure with an ohmmeter, and simple to calculate with Ohm's
law. For example, a "24 volt DC" coil that measures 240 ohms will draw I
= V/R = 24volts / 240ohms = 0.1 amps. Power-wise, it takes P = 24v x
0.1a = 2.4 watts.
On AC, the situation is more complicated. The coil is inductive, so its
AC current is reduced. The same coil that draws 0.1 amps on 24vdc would
draw 1/2 to 1/10th this current on 24vac at 60hz. Since the current is
what produces the mechanical force, it probably won't pull in on AC.
So, if you power a DC-rated coil from AC, you need to apply 2 to 10
times the voltage. Or, if you compare the AC-rated and DC-rated coils
for a particular model relay, you'll find the AC-rated coild has fewer
turns of thicker wire, such that its resistance+inductance on 24vac
produces the same current and same power as the 24vdc version. The ratio
between AC and DC ratings is not predictable; you have to measure the
actual coil current.
There are further complications. On DC, the magnetic pull is steady. On
AC, it pulsates 120 times per second (at 60hz). Many relays and
contactors will try to pull in and drop out 120 times per seconds. The
result is that they "buzz", or the contacts chatter and bounce.
The cheap solution is to add a "shading coil". This is an additional
winding, which looks like a heavy piece of copper around *part* of the
core. Half the magnetic field produced by the main coil goes around this
shorted turn; the other half is delayed a fraction of a second and then
goes thru the shorted turn. This keeps the total magnetic field from
going to zero 120 times per second, because one or the other of the two
half-fields is always pulling.
The other, slightly more expensive solution is to use a DC coil with
rectifier diodes on AC. You need a full bridge, not just a single diode;
a single diode allows the coil current to go to zero every half cycle,
again producing that objectionable "buzz" or contact bouncing. With the
bridge, the coil's inductance keeps the current flowing through the zero
crossings of the AC line.
And there's *still* more. The inductance of a coil changes with the
position of the relay's armature. Before it pulls in, there is a big air
gap in the core, so its inductance is low. After it has pulled in, this
gap closes and the inductance goes way up. On AC, this means the initial
current is much higher, and then drops after it pulls in. On DC, the
opposite happens; the inductance causes the current to start low, and
increase to its maximum value after the coil has pulled in. Some relays
and contactors are explicitly designed with this current-versus-time
effect in min. For instance, an AC-only contactor may depend on the high
initial current to make it pull in fast, and the lower holding current
to keep its coil from burning up. To use this device on DC, you'd need
an external circuit to shape the DC current to be similarly high
initially, and drop to a lower value once pulled in.
And if all this isn't bad enough... contactors marked "definite purpose"
are specifically designed so when powered with their rated AC voltage,
their contacts just happen to close as the AC line crosses zero. Thus
you only get full contact ratings with the "right" coil voltage and
"right" power factor load.
In case I haven't scared you off and you're still reading...
Yes, you can use a relay with a DC coil to replace one with an AC coil.
Add a bridge rectifier across the coil to convert the applied AC to DC.
Add a series resistor so the resulting coil current is the same as the
old AC-rated coil's current. Add a capacitor across this resistor to
give the relay an extra "slug" of current when first powered, to
simulate the inrush of the AC coil.
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Jan 2006 at 21:56, Matt Milliron wrote:
> Are there any Electrica owners that know where the thin red wire in
> the back battery box is connected?
Does that car have a PMC DCC-96 controller? It (the controller, I mean)
would be a light green or light blue rectangular box. There are 3 large
lugs for the high power connections (and a smaller lug for the field on the
sepex versions). The low power control connections for 12v enable in, 12v
ground, 24v logic tap, and 3-wire potbox, go to a 6-pin nylon molex plug.
If so, that is probably the 24 volt battery tap for the logic supply.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
At 04:39 PM 27/01/06 -0800, kluge wrote:
I saw this motor advertised by "HT Electric, Inc."
Taylor-Dunn D-385
36V, 3.5 HP, 2900RPM
48V, 10 HP, 1360RPM
Am I the only guy that looks wrong to? They haven't responded to my e-mail.
G'day kluge and All
A motors' rating on its' nameplate is only one point along its' curves. It
is quite reasonable that a motor can deliver 3.5hp @ 2900RPM from 36V, and
if you up the supply volts to 48V and load it down to 1360RPM that it'll
deliver 10hp.
However, that said, I doubt that the manufacturer put those values on the
motor plate, or if they did, there would be more to it - such as "36V,
3.5hp, 2900RPM, cont, 48V, 10hp, 1360RPM, 15min [or ext. blower]).
It may be that the advertiser has the motor voltage cureves for this motor,
and picked two datapoints off those curves that makes the motor look in
its' best light.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:29 PM 27/01/06 -0600, Lee Hart wrote:
For instance, an AC-only contactor may depend on the high
initial current to make it pull in fast, and the lower holding current
to keep its coil from burning up. To use this device on DC, you'd need
an external circuit to shape the DC current to be similarly high
initially, and drop to a lower value once pulled in.
G'day Lee, and all.
So that's why:
a) AC coils in contactors are much smaller than DC ones, and
b) (I see this a lot in welder repairs) when there is a build-up of
material in a contactor that gets onto the magnetic poles it'll burn out
the coil. The main symptom of this is the contactor buzzes much louder than
it normally should. If we see this symptom in a machine we have apart we
cean the insides of the contactor (if it's otherwise OK) and it goes a few
more years. (When we change a contactor in a welder we put the new one in a
plastic bag to keep the dust out and prevent this).
Never got around to checking out why they did this, now I know, thanks, Lee.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
I am still waiting to hear you do another interview.
I loved the last one. BTW, I had posted your link on
the voltage forum too for others to see.
Lyle Sloan
--- Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It was nice to see someone respond to my POST about
> the Plug-In-Partners
> press conference, kicking off their nation wide
> campagin... even if it
> was just a press rlease from another news paper....
>
> After two days of seamingly nothing but EV Racing,
> Air Cars, and Worlds
> Quickest, or Fastest .....I was thinking we should
> just change the name
> of the EVDL to something like EVRO ( Electric
> Vehicle Racing Only )
>
> Yah... I know, I've got my butain lighter going
> here... But I fully
> realize how important EV Competition is ....Really
> I DO ! I love all
> aspects of EV Racing.. Just seems
> like it overtakes the
> EVDL somethimes....
>
> Makes me wonder where all the folks who are
> interested in other aspects
> of the EV world are. ??
>
> I love the EVDL and read it cover to cover twice a
> day....
>
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- Begin Message ---
From: Mike Ellis
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3974264721033016884&q=electric+car
FutureCrusH
This was made by Mike Patterson, a good friend of Dave (Battery Boy)
Hawkins
and myself. Mike told me some time ago to start watching for it, I'm glad to see
that it's up! I've watched the first part of it,..... my dialup gives me another
tantalizing little bit to watch every .........so often. Great so far! Mike has
made
many great EV videos over the years, and has also recently been importing
Twikes.
....John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like an 8% increase:
http://www.exideworld.com/News/pressrelease/20060125_industrial_price_increase.html
--- David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 27 Jan 2006 at 8:33, STEVE CLUNN wrote:
>
> > what is your max amp pull and what do you curse at
> ?
>
> I curse at Exide batteries.
>
> Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;-)
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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> = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while
> you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how:
> http://www.evdl.org/help/
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> = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses
> will not reach me.
> To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm
> period net.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = =
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
he he he , good thing we don't getting graded here . I'm wondering if the
batteries got broken in right . A 150 amp draw would give me about 75 ah , .
With my 2 strings of golfers most of the time my max is less the 200amps or
100amps a string , and cruising ( another shot in the dark) for me is 150
watch is only 75 amps per string , so mine have it good , but I can say my
last pack is not the same as the old ones I had 5 years ago .
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: NAPA - Exide Deep Cycle Batteries - Update
On 27 Jan 2006 at 8:33, STEVE CLUNN wrote:
what is your max amp pull and what do you curse at ?
I curse at Exide batteries.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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I forgot to ask, but the Sam's Club batteries have 12
month
warranty.
Is it possible to use them up within 12 months?
Thanks?
Michael
Alaska
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google video is not available over the pond (France)
:^(
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: Futurecrush
>
> From: Mike Ellis
>
> >
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3974264721033016884&q=electric+car
>
> FutureCrusH
> This was made by Mike Patterson, a good friend of Dave (Battery Boy)
Hawkins
> and myself. Mike told me some time ago to start watching for it, I'm glad
to see
> that it's up! I've watched the first part of it,..... my dialup gives me
another
> tantalizing little bit to watch every .........so often. Great so far!
Mike has made
> many great EV videos over the years, and has also recently been importing
Twikes.
>
> ....John
>
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On 28 Jan 2006 at 1:22, STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> good thing we don't getting graded here ...
Ayuh. ;-)
Seriously, my experiences years ago with Exide golf car batteries in my C-
car put me off them for good.
One friend of mine uses Exides in his Elec-Trak tractor and likes them, but
unless they've improved a lot since about 1988, I don't think I'd use them
again in a road EV.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
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My heart skipped a beat when I read the subject line,
as I hoped I'd at last found a source for a
publication I can no longer locate. I'd come across a
CT Agricultural Experiment Station article, circa 1884
perhaps, on "Fertilizer Experiments with Tomatoes."
Seems the market gardeners in Connecticut, who were
growing veggies for NYC, had been accustomed to
getting the horse manure to grow those crops from the
city. Due to the rapid replacement of horses by
"electric cars" in New York City, however, horse
manure was no longer readily available. Thus, the need
for the rapid introduction of chemical fertilizers.
Wild.
-brian
> > Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:56:52 -0600
> To: [email protected]
> From: "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: New use for electric motors in 1884
>
>
http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/pageviewer?root=%2Fmoa%2Fmanu%2Fmanu0016%2F&tif=00084.TIF&cite=http%3A%2F%2Fcdl.library.cornell.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmoa%2Fmoa-cgi%3Fnotisid%3DABS1821-0016-195&coll=moa&frames=1&view=50
>
> Here is the text for those on a slow connection.
>
> "
> PRINTING A PAPER BY ELECTRICITY The fact is
> being extensively circulated that the Citizen news-
> paper of Ilion, N. Y., is printed by electricity,
> using
> an electric motor deriving its current from a dynamo
> machine fifteen rods distant. This is said to be
> the
> first practical application of electricity for this
> pur-
> pose in this country. Whether the use of an electric
> motor for this purpose is merely to test a novel ex-
> periment, or whether it is to be regularly used, we
> are not informed.
> "
>
>
> Also on the same page is an 1884 view of the worlds
> population. We should
> be at only 3,000,000,000 now.:)
>
>
> __________
> Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Neil,
When you connect the remote, do you still have the Raptor disconnected from
your motor? If you do not (and are checking it while driving), then perhaps
you're in current limit, and the Raptor is not at 100% (which is what lights
the yellow LED on the remote).
I don't know if plugging in the remote disables the LED on the controller.
One other idea: could it be that when you are under the hood, setting the
pots, that you are manually actuating the accelerator linkage (with your
hand), whereas with the remote hooked up, you are using your foot (and the
associated cables/linkages)? Maybe you don't have the travel you expect from
inside the cabin.
Finally, what's your current drain/battery sag during acceleration. Your
performance may be more related to something besided the controller not
coming full-on.
Best regards, Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Gover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 9:22 AM
Subject: Raptor 600
> Thanks for the tachometer advice. I have ordered one from my local speed
shop. I also heard about "TinyTach" who make tachs for engines without
one. www.tinytach.com
>
> I have still not been able to finish the calibration of the controller.
I can get the WOT LED to light on the controller itself but when I connect
the remote I cannot get it to come on even it I turn the pot up some more.
I know the yellow LED works because I sometimes have the heater on when I
start and the raptor fires up all the LEDs. The vehicle seems sluggish
compared to another EV that I have driven. Once the tach is installed I
will have more info.
> Thanks
> Neil
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
> 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
> Signup at www.doteasy.com
>
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Hi Philippe,
Your news really bothered me... I mean what if I were suddenly to find
myself in France and was depending on Google Video???
So I did a little digging (www.digg.com) and found this article on how to
get around the geolocating google does:
http://labnol.blogspot.com/2006/01/download-watch-google-videos-in-any.html
Hope that helps,
-Mike
On 1/28/06, Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> google video is not available over the pond (France)
> :^(
>
> cordialement,
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 7:06 AM
> Subject: Re: Futurecrush
>
>
> >
> > From: Mike Ellis
> >
> > >
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3974264721033016884&q=electric+car
> >
> > FutureCrusH
> > This was made by Mike Patterson, a good friend of Dave (Battery Boy)
> Hawkins
> > and myself. Mike told me some time ago to start watching for it, I'm
> glad
> to see
> > that it's up! I've watched the first part of it,..... my dialup gives me
> another
> > tantalizing little bit to watch every .........so often. Great so far!
> Mike has made
> > many great EV videos over the years, and has also recently been
> importing
> Twikes.
> >
> > ....John
> >
>
>
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Computer gurus,
Does anyone knows how to save this interview as a file to a hard disk
(as .wmf or .avi, or whatever)?
Victor
Mike Ellis wrote:
A quick search of my gmail account is telling me that no one has posted this
before. It's a very nice little documentary on the EV1 and the recent
crushing of said car.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3974264721033016884&q=electric+car
-Mike
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Download button on right side of the video.There are also several other EV
files if you hit the more videos tab on top of page. Very big avi file had to
cansel due to time limit but stopped at 50 MB. Will attempt to save tonight
Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Computer gurus,
Does anyone knows how to save this interview as a file to a hard disk
(as .wmf or .avi, or whatever)?
Victor
Mike Ellis wrote:
> A quick search of my gmail account is telling me that no one has posted this
> before. It's a very nice little documentary on the EV1 and the recent
> crushing of said car.
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3974264721033016884&q=electric+car
>
> -Mike
>
>
---------------------------------
What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
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1999 Ford Ranger EV Electric Vehicle NiMh E V NIMH
VERY RARE, LOW MILES, NO RESERVE - Highest Bidder WINS!
Item number: 4607082651
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I look at the Sam's Club Exide batteries. These are deep cycle marine type and
they do not have the ampere-hour rating, that I would need.
There was one at 80 ah and another just over 100 ah, I would have to charge
them every day and maybe twice a day. If you discharge them from 100 to 20
percent and charge them at 30 amps, the life will be about 600 charging cycles.
It is recommended for a long life, is that you use the highest ampere-hour
battery you can for long distance driving or many short distances before you
have to charge. I am using a 260 ah battery that can be charge at 20% of the ah
rated or 52 amps from 50 to 80 charge capacity.
I can drive 5 days running two 2-mile runs a day. I may at times will have a
75 % charge capacity. I normally charge at 30 amps from 70 to 80 % every 4 to
5 days. According to the life and discharge graph curves which is listed in
the Trojan battery sites or some 6-volt golf battery sites, this rate of
discharge and charge, these batteries should last 2000 cycles!!!
At 2000 cycles times a minimum of 4 days would be 8000 days. This would be over
20 years !!!
The last set of batteries which were the Exide 235 Ah 6-volt, lasted me from
1991 to 2000. I could still use them, but they were down to about one charge a
day.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: mike golub<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 1:14 AM
Subject: Exide Deep Cycle Batteries
I forgot to ask, but the Sam's Club batteries have 12
month
warranty.
Is it possible to use them up within 12 months?
Thanks?
Michael
Alaska
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Is the claimed 70 - 80 miles of range realistic?
My round trip is 25 miles - so the DOD for daily drive would be 30-40%.
Any one have performance data? 0 - 60 time?
On 1/28/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> 1999 Ford Ranger EV Electric Vehicle NiMh E V NIMH
> VERY RARE, LOW MILES, NO RESERVE - Highest Bidder WINS!
> Item number: 4607082651
>
>
>
--
Curtis Keller
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Wow - thanks for the explanation - I have searched on a number of
manufacturers sites and tech sites for an explanation but found nothing as
detailed - so thankyou for the enlightenment.
I have now found a contactor rated 24V DC and yet they then show this
graphically as both a straight line and also a dotted line which I always to
as meaning AC or DC operation.
I was going to try the little bridge rectifier solution (one of those 4 lead
packages) to take the 24V AC and I assumed it would produce 1.414 x the 24V
AC once I had hung a capacitor across the DC output. A limiting resistor too
if needed and I'm all set.
It would be simpler to find an AC rated 24 volt relay though !!!.
Thanks again
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 5:29 AM
Subject: Re: Advice on relay coils
John Luck Home wrote:
My charger has a burned out relay that is switched by 24 volts AC.
The only similar relays I can find have 24 volt DC rated coils.
Does anyone know if this just means that they have a diode in series
with the winding that I can take out, or will a 24V DC relay just
work anyway with AC applied...
DC coils and AC coils on relays and contactors are two different things.
On DC, the only thing that limits the coil current is its DC resistance.
Simple to measure with an ohmmeter, and simple to calculate with Ohm's
law. For example, a "24 volt DC" coil that measures 240 ohms will draw I
= V/R = 24volts / 240ohms = 0.1 amps. Power-wise, it takes P = 24v x
0.1a = 2.4 watts.
On AC, the situation is more complicated. The coil is inductive, so its
AC current is reduced. The same coil that draws 0.1 amps on 24vdc would
draw 1/2 to 1/10th this current on 24vac at 60hz. Since the current is
what produces the mechanical force, it probably won't pull in on AC.
So, if you power a DC-rated coil from AC, you need to apply 2 to 10
times the voltage. Or, if you compare the AC-rated and DC-rated coils
for a particular model relay, you'll find the AC-rated coild has fewer
turns of thicker wire, such that its resistance+inductance on 24vac
produces the same current and same power as the 24vdc version. The ratio
between AC and DC ratings is not predictable; you have to measure the
actual coil current.
There are further complications. On DC, the magnetic pull is steady. On
AC, it pulsates 120 times per second (at 60hz). Many relays and
contactors will try to pull in and drop out 120 times per seconds. The
result is that they "buzz", or the contacts chatter and bounce.
The cheap solution is to add a "shading coil". This is an additional
winding, which looks like a heavy piece of copper around *part* of the
core. Half the magnetic field produced by the main coil goes around this
shorted turn; the other half is delayed a fraction of a second and then
goes thru the shorted turn. This keeps the total magnetic field from
going to zero 120 times per second, because one or the other of the two
half-fields is always pulling.
The other, slightly more expensive solution is to use a DC coil with
rectifier diodes on AC. You need a full bridge, not just a single diode;
a single diode allows the coil current to go to zero every half cycle,
again producing that objectionable "buzz" or contact bouncing. With the
bridge, the coil's inductance keeps the current flowing through the zero
crossings of the AC line.
And there's *still* more. The inductance of a coil changes with the
position of the relay's armature. Before it pulls in, there is a big air
gap in the core, so its inductance is low. After it has pulled in, this
gap closes and the inductance goes way up. On AC, this means the initial
current is much higher, and then drops after it pulls in. On DC, the
opposite happens; the inductance causes the current to start low, and
increase to its maximum value after the coil has pulled in. Some relays
and contactors are explicitly designed with this current-versus-time
effect in min. For instance, an AC-only contactor may depend on the high
initial current to make it pull in fast, and the lower holding current
to keep its coil from burning up. To use this device on DC, you'd need
an external circuit to shape the DC current to be similarly high
initially, and drop to a lower value once pulled in.
And if all this isn't bad enough... contactors marked "definite purpose"
are specifically designed so when powered with their rated AC voltage,
their contacts just happen to close as the AC line crosses zero. Thus
you only get full contact ratings with the "right" coil voltage and
"right" power factor load.
In case I haven't scared you off and you're still reading...
Yes, you can use a relay with a DC coil to replace one with an AC coil.
Add a bridge rectifier across the coil to convert the applied AC to DC.
Add a series resistor so the resulting coil current is the same as the
old AC-rated coil's current. Add a capacitor across this resistor to
give the relay an extra "slug" of current when first powered, to
simulate the inrush of the AC coil.
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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