EV Digest 5136
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Lipo batteries
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Battery reliability vs. perfomance etc.
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: motor/contoller
by Ron Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: RPM/efficiency, was: Safe Rev limit for 8 inch ADC
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EDrive Systems - Any Grass Roots Openions
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Budget EV - motor mount and coupler
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Lipo batteries, nice bike.
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: How to download? (Re: Futurecrush)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) All OK! Re: How to download? (Re: Futurecrush)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Silicone batteries?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: search by range, etc.
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Budget EV - motor mount and coupler
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Silicone batteries?
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Silicone batteries?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Empty Trailer going from Concord, CA to Los Angeles Area
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Silicone batteries?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Fwd: Re: converted sports bike
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) TEVan for sale
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: RPM/efficiency, was: Safe Rev limit for 8 inch ADC
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EDrive Systems - Any Grass Roots Openions
by jerry halstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Budget EV - motor mount and coupler
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Silicone batteries?
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Silicone batteries?
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Exide Deep Cycle Batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Batteries anyone?
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Batteries anyone?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Hey man, your car is on fire !
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I am one of the list members that is jealous of Cliff and his Electric Imp.
He is using large Kokum Lipo cells. Check out
http://www.proev.com/P1Batt.htm.
damon
From: Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Lipo batteries
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:48:43 -0800 (PST)
Hi
I am new to this group. From the flood of emails, there seems to be a
great source of info within the group. Currently I am looking for lipo
batteries for my converted Honda F4 Sports bike (EZE).
The main batteries on the bike are Odyssey Dry Cells driving twin Etek
motors. I use a pack of NiMh batteries to extend the range of the bike but
am looking at the Lipo batteries from Thunder. Does any one in this group
have experience with Lipo packs, good or bad. Where can you get them and
at what size/price. They are quite expensive and appear to need a good
bms.
Ray Wong P.Eng
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail.
<< eze1.jpg >>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So I suppose my question is what
batteries are reliable?
{snip}
I personally like the Hawker Odyssey. They charge like floodies, but are
sealed with true lead and thin plate design. And, (best part) are forgiving
with the abusive charge/discharge cycle that i put mine thru.
I dont yet own stock in the company, but i should!
paul
---------------------------------
What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Steve,
Your comment about "2x the torque" is most relevant, since I'm really
trying to determine if I'll have enough power to travel 65mph up a 6%
grade... into the wind :) ...or 45mph up an 18% grade.
Does anyone have torque curves or charts for WarP motors at 192v or greater?
Ron
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
A quick way to look at things is 1kw = 1hp ( this gives 24% loss ) now
every volt will = 1 hp with a 1k and 2 hp with a 2k so 115hp with a 1k
you would need 115 motor volts and as the battery voltag sags you need a
200v pack. The 11 that I now am enjoying puts out 2x the toqure at the
same voltage as the net gain 9 this I assume means 1/2 the rpm at the
same voltage. It may very well be close the the proformance of 2 9's
stuck in series .
steve clunn
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 2:44 PM
Subject: motor/contoller
I'd like a motor/controller that will output between 87kW/115hp and
153kW/205hp. What's the max power of a WarP 9/Z1k and WarP 11/Z1k?
Thanks,
Ron
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Robison wrote:
> Are there any factors besides the fan that would cause the downslope
> in efficiency after the peak?
The basic losses are I^2R, friction, windage, and core.
I^2R is the loss due to the electrical resistance of the windings (and
brushes in a brushed motor). It is based on current (the "I" in the
name), and goes up as the square of the current.
Friction is the mechanical drag from the bearings (and brushes, for
motors that have them). It is directly proportional to rpm; double the
speed and you double the frictional losses.
Windage is the loss due to the wind resistance of the rotating parts
(and fan, if the motor has one). Windage loss goes up as the square of
the rpm (or worse, depending on the fan design). So this is the big one
that kills efficiency at high rpm.
Core loss is the magnetic loss in the iron cores of the motor. There are
several factors that make them up (magnetization, hysteresis, eddy,
etc.) The total core loss goes up faster than rpm, though not as fast as
windage. Thus the core losses also contribute to efficiency falling off
as speed increases.
> For example, if you had no fan, would the efficiency peak be
> significantly higher
Yes.
> or could you perhaps eliminate the peak altogether this way such
> that efficiency ramps up continuously to redline?
It will still fall off due to windage and core losses. However, there
are ironless motors that have essentially zero core loss, and special
motors with aerodynamically smooth rotors and stators to minimize
windage. They can operate efficiently at extremely high rpm, and will
generally fail from centrifugal force before their efficiency drops very
much.
> For the record I ask this while acknowledging that I have been
> specifically warned against running a motor without a fan by
> Netgain, as they claim an internal fan cools more evenly than
> using external blowers as your sole source of cooling.
This all depends on the locations of your air intake and exhaust
openings. For example, the GE motor in my ComutaVan had a 2" hose
fitting for the air intake on the *side*, just over one set of brushes.
So this set of brushes got cooled much better than the ones on the
opposite side.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve and EVeryone,
A quick way to look at things is 1kw = 1hp ( this gives 24% loss ) now
every volt will = 1 hp with a 1k and 2 hp with a 2k so 115hp with a 1k
you would need 115 motor volts and as the battery voltag sags you need
a 200v pack. The 11 that I now am enjoying puts out 2x the toqure at
the same voltage as the net gain 9 this I assume means 1/2 the rpm at
the same voltage. It may very well be close the the proformance of 2
9's stuck in series .
steve clunn
George at Netgain mentioned your WarP 11 - said you laid a pretty good
strip of rubber recently! You'll have to tell us all about it! :)
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As you look at the Web site of EDrive: http://www.edrivesystems.com/
It looks like at some Point, they will be looking for Franchise Outlets
which would be technically proficient to Sell / Install / Market their
Prius Up-Grade Kit to PHEV.
Has any one on this LIST had direct contact with them and found any
info on Cost, Necessary Capitol Outlay, Physical Shop Settings, etc.
I am going to be interviewed by one of Clear Channels Radio stations
here in the NW early next month, and would like to know just how far off
in the future, or How Expensive these up-grades will be. I have heard
the $12,000. figure...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seems like a lot of pressure on the motor bearings when the clutch
is engaged.
Were the electric motors designed for this with a thrust bearing ??
the "Experts" seem divided on the issue of clutchless VS clutch...
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> At 11:25 AM 1/29/2006, you wrote:
> >Is this without a flywheel/pressure plate ?
> >
> >I am working on a geo metro conversion ....
> >
> >My thought is that is is better to use a controller and a
clutchless
> >system rather than a contactor/clutch system.(Less wear on
bearings,
> >clutches,transmission)
>
> More wear on the driver. We have heard from numerous people with
> clutchless systems who say they would not do it again. Unpleasant
to
> drive, takes a special touch, there's a delay while shifting. You
> are also elimating a safety function: with a clutch, you can
> instantly disconnect the motor from the wheels in case of a
problem
> such as a runaway.
>
> And, if I understnad you correctly, NO, don't try to substitute a
> contactor for a controller. You need BOTH.
>
> Shari Prange
> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-
1989
> http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since
1979
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is a nice lookin bike, got a webpage, photos, specs, stories?
It would be handy to get some specs from you, what kind of
controller and at what voltage are you running the pair?
This is everything I have on Lithium: http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/Li
I would agree with damon, the Kokum are pretty swell,
I've always thought they might work well on a bike where
you could stack them in odd orientations to maximize odd spaces.
The specs I have there are for 100Ah Li-Poly cells:
171Wh/kg (364Wh/L), 1kW/kg (1.95kW/L)
L8r
Ryan
Ray Wong wrote:
> Hi
>
> I am new to this group. From the flood of emails, there seems to be a great
> source of info within the group. Currently I am looking for lipo batteries
> for my converted Honda F4 Sports bike (EZE).
>
> The main batteries on the bike are Odyssey Dry Cells driving twin Etek
> motors. I use a pack of NiMh batteries to extend the range of the bike but
> am looking at the Lipo batteries from Thunder. Does any one in this group
> have experience with Lipo packs, good or bad. Where can you get them and at
> what size/price. They are quite expensive and appear to need a good bms.
>
> Ray Wong P.Eng
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
> With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff, thanks for the offer.
I've downloaded it twice - from your server and someone else also
posted long link. Got 301MB .avi file OK, but it won't play - file
error. Any other avi file plays OK. I realize it is divx, so standard
player may not be able to handle it.
As long as someone out there have it saved we're fine, I can
ask to burn a CD, or John can just copy it to a flash stick
for me. It just bothers me that these videos may disappear
under GM pressure (or whatever) and we have no saved archives
of it.
I'll try dwnld again from your location, thanks again Jeff!
Victor
Jeff Shanab wrote:
No flame wars please. Just offering ideas. The problem is not windows,
it is web authors writing code that depends on some OS,version, and
installed software. Since they think windows IE is most popular, they
code their fancy flash wrappers for that and it is invariably a wrong
version somewhere. Maybe I should of said the secret is "don't use
flash" I have a 64bit OS and only old flash works.
Win 2k is the most stable of the 95/98/xp crowd, good choice.
When I downloaded, the "download window" said unknown file size and when
finished it said 1K, but it did save the file.
Looking at the code, it tries to download it's flash based player but if
it detects mac (I guess doesn't detect windows) it fallsback to a
direct download, but what a url!
http://vp.video.google.com/videodownload?version=0&secureurl=kwAAAJinrahxfI6HG80Juo_nlzwck6U_hwbB61Rcpg-d3biun9hDK5FaBk_2EPv-xVYhHpi7LwNyz0lOhaThshTuMQyQ4Vbc5lnKCYBg_MWcSRJom-_fB6hGcTk_F0NRxpFAwj-gHbsjqxrz0NKpt3q6gLyGqMMgGIK-1V3OdZC-atqeRXjIJNzBb7dSBo7x2zbLighbHsRIyNs07HIdKvoKYvc&sigh=aBlCftEhMklxYSj2s9o060wPjEE&begin=0&len=1933600&docid=-3974264721033016884";
It contains the SSL authentication I think and is probably to long to
paste into the bar.
I will put it on my server at work and post the link, it is a slow
connection (buisness dsl) but if you can grab it after hours, noone will
notice.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Clicked "send" too soon...
The downloaded file plays OK on third party player, but not standard
windows media player.
Thanks for help!
Victor
Jeff Shanab wrote:
It contains the SSL authentication I think and is probably to long to
paste into the bar.
I will put it on my server at work and post the link, it is a slow
connection (buisness dsl) but if you can grab it after hours, noone will
notice.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's a new one to me..
http://www.guineng.com/HTM/Jwork_01.htm
Supposedly cheaper than Li-Ion (although bigger and heavier), and they
have large capacity cells..
Model:2V200Ah 168mmx104mmx326mm, Weight:15kg
Some other interesting features:
* High current discharge. The battery will not be damaged when
discharging within 8 seconds at the temperature of 30°C. Deep
discharge is allowed.
* Functions normally between �C50°C--+70°C
* Sealed with a release valve. Maintenance free.
Who wants to try them? :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about building a database and let me rebuild the Album to work
from it? That script solution seems to get suggest every so often,
but I don't know how to do it and somehow the right folks and I never
seem to get together to make it happen. At almost 700 pages of
simple html the Album is getting very unwieldy. A database would
make things much easier for me. The hosting server already has
support for PHP, MySQL and such.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey
Webmaster
EV List Photo Album
http://evalbum.com
At 12:21 PM 1/30/2006, you wrote:
Is there a database of converted EV's?
Austin EV is a great resource,
but it's not the easiest way to answer
specific questions...eg,
"What does it take to go over 100 miles/charge?"
"Who is using a Kostov motor?"
I imagine I could build and populate a
database directly from the album
(being a Perl script kiddie :-),
but I thought I would ask if it has been done.
I could build a database and offer it
to evforge....
Thanks
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't believe the pressure for the engaging the clutch has ever been a
problem with the bearings , I don't think they were designed for this , its
just that they can take it .
Seems like a lot of pressure on the motor bearings when the clutch
is engaged.
Were the electric motors designed for this with a thrust bearing ??
the "Experts" seem divided on the issue of clutchless VS clutch...
Electro Automotive were the "Experts" when I started doing my first EV over
10 years ago . Solar car , watch is gone now couldn't advise me where to go
with a 6.7 or a 9 , Shari Prange was very helpfull and advised on the 9 ,
and I got my adaptor from them , ( still working great today now in clunn
car 8 ) .
for
If your going to buy all the standard stuff then the price of the adaptor
will only be about 10-15 % for the total cost , it could end up taking lots
of time to make your self , and you may not get it right. I went to a
local machine shop and they wanted $500 to make just the hub. I wouldn't
mess with your local machine shop as they may just see you as "nut with to
much money " , charge you for that and they might not get it right anyway.
Not for
With a 1k zilla or bigger , a standard clutch is probable going to slip
when pushed hard with motor rpm low , like starting off. I got a " not for
street use " racing clutch which was rated at 440 lbs . My 1k and the 11'
net gain motor would slip this . It would not spin the wheels in 3 ed or 4
th when take off and the 2 k broke my home made hub , . I'm very happy
without the clutch on this one but this is not your normal EV. .
>
>I am working on a geo metro conversion ....
>
>My thought is that is is better to use a controller and a
clutchless
>system rather than a contactor/clutch system.(Less wear on
bearings,
>clutches,transmission)
I assume you mean contactor controller , a few steps , with resistor's ect .
So you are on a tight budget , lots of time , not lots of money , ?
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wrote them asking for more information. The converted english website leaves
a little to the imagination. I like the 2v500ah battery, although in a 100+
volt system you better have a semi trailer to pull it. :)
paul
Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It's a new one to me..
http://www.guineng.com/HTM/Jwork_01.htm
Supposedly cheaper than Li-Ion (although bigger and heavier), and they
have large capacity cells..
Model:2V200Ah¡¡¡¡168mmx104mmx326mm, Weight:15kg
Some other interesting features:
* High current discharge. The battery will not be damaged when
discharging within 8 seconds at the temperature of 30¡ãC. Deep
discharge is allowed.
* Functions normally between ¨C50¡ãC--+70¡ãC
* Sealed with a release valve. Maintenance free.
Who wants to try them? :)
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new
and used cars.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The claimed Wh/kg seems to be not far behind the Saft Nicad, for some
of their cells. However, the cycle life is a lot poorer.
On the other hand, they might be much cheaper, and (this could be
wishful thinking) does it read to you like the battery can be
rejuvenated by replacing the electrolyte? It also claims that the old
electrolyte "makes good fertiliser" - hah.
On 1/31/06, paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I wrote them asking for more information. The converted english website
> leaves a little to the imagination. I like the 2v500ah battery, although in a
> 100+ volt system you better have a semi trailer to pull it. :)
> paul
>
>
> Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's a new one to me..
>
> http://www.guineng.com/HTM/Jwork_01.htm
>
> Supposedly cheaper than Li-Ion (although bigger and heavier), and they
> have large capacity cells..
>
> Model:2V200Ah¡¡¡¡168mmx104mmx326mm, Weight:15kg
>
> Some other interesting features:
>
> * High current discharge. The battery will not be damaged when
> discharging within 8 seconds at the temperature of 30¡ãC. Deep
> discharge is allowed.
> * Functions normally between ¨C50¡ãC--+70¡ãC
> * Sealed with a release valve. Maintenance free.
>
> Who wants to try them? :)
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new
> and used cars.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is your chance to get something from northern to southern California.
Do not contact me. Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have no relation. Just saw this on the Arcane car list.
From: mark sebolt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Empty Trailer going from Concord, CA to Los Angeles Area
I have a small open flatbed trailer that will be empty heading north to
south in the next few days. I can carry a small car like an Isetta or
Messerschmitt or other items. I have a winch and ramps so I can load a
non-op vehicle as long as it rolls. The width between the wheelwells is the
problem for larger cars it is only 55"
Mark
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Paul an' All;
Looks great ." The world Cheers for the arrival of"...........and so on.
Dontya just love the way these folks describe their products? Right from the
heart descriptions. And electric locomotives, too?Go there, it is a charming
read!
Lets hope that isnt a flash in the pan(contactor) thing. What with
thousands MORE Chem. and electrical guyz training and in service techy folks
in the Central Kingdom, they can come up with SOMETHING? We will be their
test pilots, like the Thunder Sky thing. But Who in China has a " White
Draggin'" racing setup to test with?Now THAT would be something! The Bei
Jing challange, NEDRA EVent, IF NEDRA gets its' act together?If they , the
Chinese Chapter of EAA could fly all of our racers over there?Ha Ha! The
North Korean racer would be in a sealed box til track time? No Peking<g>!The
Chinese have plenty of money, ours. I can dream, can't I.
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul wiley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Silicone batteries?
> I wrote them asking for more information. The converted english website
leaves a little to the imagination. I like the 2v500ah battery, although in
a 100+ volt system you better have a semi trailer to pull it. :)
> paul
>
>
> Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's a new one to me..
>
> http://www.guineng.com/HTM/Jwork_01.htm
>
> Supposedly cheaper than Li-Ion (although bigger and heavier), and they
> have large capacity cells..
>
> Model:2V200Ah¡¡¡¡168mmx104mmx326mm, Weight:15kg
>
> Some other interesting features:
>
> * High current discharge. The battery will not be damaged when
> discharging within 8 seconds at the temperature of 30¡ãC. Deep
> discharge is allowed.
> * Functions normally between ¨C50¡ãC--+70¡ãC
> * Sealed with a release valve. Maintenance free.
>
> Who wants to try them? :)
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on
new and used cars.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, I had pm this email to Paul when I should have sent it to the group.
Note: forwarded message attached.
---------------------------------
Bring words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.--- Begin Message ---
I have been playing with different combinations. My EZE can be used with one
or two Eteks and drives a CVT with a 3:1/1:1 ratio. Best range is on 48 volt
single Etek. I am using an Alltrax 7245 on this configuration. At 72 volts, I
get a lot more zip. The bike accelerates like my old Virago 700 ICE cruiser
but handles like my ICE Honda F4i.
In the twin Etek (drag mode) I am running with a 550 amp Curtis 7221 and the
two motors in series. I have yet to try the series to parallel switch that
some of the other drag bikes are using. Could try a 48v/96v. If I win the
lottery, I will probably get a 1000+ Zilla or a T-REX and some big contactors
and try blow up the Eteks.
Most of the time I just want to get the best range out of the bike. I have
about 1cf of space left under the gas tank that I can add extra batteries. I
currenltly have a NiMh pack at 24Ah. Lipo packs have a great power/weight
ratio but seam to cost as much as a 1kwatt fuel cell.
I like the Odyssey batteries for regular use. I am using two strings of
PC680MJ for 32AH. The electric conversion had to fit inside the original F4
plastic so the 680s fit better than the bigger batteries. Most of the time I
drive the bike hard but the Odyssey batteries are fine with 500-600 amps loads
and deep discharges. I found the smaller 10C NiMh don't have much punch but
are fine for extra range and don't weigh as much.
Ray
paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ray,
Welcome to the group. I to have a converted bike, runnning only one etek and
48v. What voltage of pack do you run? Also, what controller and size of
battery?
I have a 400 amp alltrax, and Odessey pc1200 batteries. Although, i was
thinking of doing the power tool routine and buying several lipo packs for the
makita hand tools. With some clever plastic modeling, it would be that tough to
build a pack that could be charged by removing it from the bike and using a
"gang" charger.
Have fun and take a looke at the Kokam cells, they are claimed to be the best
if you can afford them!
Paul
---------------------------------
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PhotoMail - it's free and works with your Yahoo! Mail.
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Due to the People's Republic of Maryland not allowing me to work on my TEVan
in my driveway, I'm going to sell it. I will soon have it listed on the EV
Trading Post (as soon as Mike approves my ad).
http://www.austinev.org/evtradinpost/
Asking price $9000 as is. A couple of these have recently gone for much
more. It needs a bit of work, mainly dropping the batteries and repairing
the tubing in the watering system. Has extra controller. Details in the
ad.
Van is located in Glen Burnie, Maryland (just outside of Baltimore).
Dave Davidson
Glen Burnie, Maryland
240-271-0120
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--- Begin Message ---
The Eff curves from AvDC clearly show the Eff peaks in the mid 3000 rpm
range 3400 to 3600.
higher RPM has a LOT more windage losses for one thing, and the brush drag
just keeps getting more with more turns.
So.... Don't over rpm for real gains. Run over 3600 for good air cooling,
this is s trade off in hot weather or in hard running, You have to cool them
enough to not melt them. And the hotter the easier it is to have the Molded
comm loose strength and fly apart.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 9:39 AM
Subject: RPM/efficiency, was: Safe Rev limit for 8 inch ADC
> On 5:18:40 pm 01/30/06 "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I would say don't go above 7000 rpms. If you are not over voltaging
> > there is not much torque above 5000 rpms. For efficiency run the
> > motor between 3800 and 4600 rpms.
>
> Is this true?
>
> My understanding has been that for efficiency, you want to be running up
> toward the redline, where you are running out of torque. You get high
> efficiency at the cost of power.
>
> Why would upshifting to a taller gear to maintain a midrange RPM be more
> efficient than staying in a lower gear and running 6000RPM or so? It'd
> certainly perform better and might be a good idea for other reasons, but
it
> seems like you'd be drawing more amps.
>
> --chris
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Roderick Wilde
> > EV Parts, Inc.
> > www.evparts.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:00 AM
> > Subject: Safe Rev limit for 8 inch ADC
> >
> >
> > > Does anyone know what the safe upper rev limit is for an 8 inch
> > > ADC motor?
> > > I have a TD-100 tacho/rev limiter which can be set to 5000, 6000,
> > > 7000, 8000 RPM
> > > however I am thinking anything above 6000 could lead to grief.
> > >
> > > Regards, Rod Dilkes
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.22/239 - Release Date:
> > > 1/24/2006
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.22/239 - Release Date:
> > 1/24/2006
> >
>
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--- Begin Message ---
On Jan 30, 2006, at 11:19 PM, Steven Lough wrote:
As you look at the Web site of EDrive: http://www.edrivesystems.com/
It looks like at some Point, they will be looking for Franchise
Outlets which would be technically proficient to Sell / Install /
Market their Prius Up-Grade Kit to PHEV.
Thanks for the link, Steven.
First thing I thought of after reading their technology page was:
what they gonna do with all them old NiMH's?
-Jerry
http://www.evconvert.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jmygann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Seems like a lot of pressure on the motor bearings when the clutch
> is engaged.
> Were the electric motors designed for this with a thrust bearing ??
The bearings in ADC motors are "single row deep groove ball bearings"
(6207 and 6305 in the ADC 9"), which are capable of handling both radial
and axial ("thrust") loads. Here is what SKF says about them:
"Single row deep groove ball bearings are particularly versatile. They
are simple in design, non-separable, suitable for high and even very
high speeds and are robust in operation, requiring little maintenance.
Deep raceway grooves and the close conformity between the raceway
grooves and the balls enable deep groove ball bearings to accommodate
axial loads in both directions, in addition to radial loads, even at
high speeds."
If you stick with a stock pressure plate you are probably fine, but if
you upgrade to a stronger/racing plate you may want to check the specs
of your bearings to verify that they are up to the task. Of course, one
doesn't tend to shift as often with an electric, so the bearings will
likely hold up for quite some time anyway.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Did anyone else notice this about these batteries:
"Discharging at pulsing load: 20% better than steady load"
Seems to indicate a very fast voltage recovery rate?
And the german company that is using these in a currently shipped
product (http://www.e-max-scooter.com/) has this to say on cost:
"$0.36 - $0.42/Wh"
which would put the 12V/20AH batteries at $85 - $100 each ...and they
are offering a 1yr/10,000km warranty on these batteries, with a claimed
cycle life of minimum 400.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
And the german company that is using these in a currently shipped
product (http://www.e-max-scooter.com/) has this to say on cost:
"$0.36 - $0.42/Wh"
which would put the 12V/20AH batteries at $85 - $100 each ...and they
are offering a 1yr/10,000km warranty on these batteries, with a
claimed cycle life of minimum 400.
Oops, self correction: I found this on a e-max owners site
(http://e-max.us/), where he lists support letters from e-max USA:
"Jason, charge cycles typically >400. Battery costs as of today for a
complete replacement of all batteries in an e-max scoot is under $500.
Single batteries out of warranty $62.49. By the time you need them,
volume may reduce the cost. Batteries sent only to purchasers of e-max
scoots with return of old battery/s. After market Silicone batteries may
be purchased from www.subcpower.com <http://www.subcpower.com>."
And this little gem:
"The Silicone battery comparisons are on our website www.e-maxusa.com
<http://www.e-maxusa.com>. If you dropped a lead acid and it broke open,
you would have hazardous waste in the form of acid liquid or gel. In the
case of a Silicone, it would be a solid-like piece that looks and feels
like fiberglass and is non hazardous. Also the low and high temps as
well as shelf life surpass SLA's by a tremendous margin. [...]
The beauty of the e-max Silicones, is that you do not need to keep the
batteries "topped off" like SLA's or other types of batteries because of
memory degradation or sulfating. Just like a car, fill it up whenever
the time is right for the distance traveled."
The fiberglass part indicates AGM maybe - the alternative name for these
is "Silicone Gel Batteries", which use silca salt evidently.
--
Stefan T. Peters
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--- Begin Message ---
Matt Milliron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Anybody got experience with Crown Batterys?
I've mentioned before that I have some experience with Crown batteries.
They seem to be a quality product and deliver their rated capacity. At
present my experience is limited to the larger CR325 and CR395 models
(325Ah & 395Ah flooded 6V), however, I will shortly be testing some
CR225s (225Ah 6V, basically T105 counterparts). My testing is at 75A
discharge, so I cannot comment on how well they will stand up to the
higher discharge rates typical of on-road EV use, however, I have no
reason to expect them to differ significantly from the other brands of
6V floodeds.
They do not charge quite the same as Trojans, however, so should you use
them do make sure you keep an eye on the s.g. for at least the first
several cycles to ensure that your charger is bringing them back up to
at least 1.275.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Would anyone be interested in about 1000 lb of batteries
without a known history?
I'm thinking it might cost me more to move them that
they could possibly be worth.
Giving them away, I'll save about $400 on "tug" rental.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:07 AM 1/31/2006, Seth Rothenberg wrote:
Would anyone be interested in about 1000 lb of batteries
without a known history?
It might help to know what kind they are? A million Watch Batteries,
or one forklift battery?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---
What you did was kill your Curtis with that contactor. Every time you put
your foot on the Juice the contactor comes in and does a VIOLENT precharge
of the Caps in the Curtiss.
This story is WHY you should not have a contactor that cycles on every power
application.
Curtis controllers don't have much Capacitor, and they don't like being
hammered every couple of seconds while driving.
We use the key switch to enable and pull in the contactor. or more correctly
to allow the controller to pre charge itself. If if can't precharge.. it
won't pull in the contactor. The Zilla and the Raptor/Rex series controllers
would drop the contactor if the micro saw a error or failure in progress.
Having a contactor or disconnect that CAN open any fail mode current surge
is a must in all SANE street EVs and in simply required in Racing.
Added safety is a fuse or breaker that will open if a runaway happens, and
you panic stop with the main brakes. Standing on the brakes should be your
final Pan "D" way to stop your run a way EV.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fortunat Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:33 PM
Subject: Hey man, your car is on fire !
> well, the subject just about says it all; the first
> drive with the fiero since I got permanent tags on it
> was....um, an adventure.
>
> Sat morning, I decided I would take the fiero to run
> some errands. I was only going about 2 miles each ways
> so I figured it would be a good time to see how she
> keeps up with traffic on a variety of roads without
> worrying too much about SOC.
>
> She was doing pretty good, keeping up with traffic at
> about 40-45 mph. The car definitely has one sticky
> brake caliper so it takes a bit more amps than
> expected to cruise, but i figured i will get to that
> when I can.
>
> anyway, I pull up to the light at the intersection of
> two 4 lane roads (two lanes each way). I am in the
> left turn lane and waiting for an arrow. Since I am on
> a slight uphill, i decide to give first gear a try. I
> shift and when the arrow comes up I hit the gas and
> the car lurches forward violently. Out of the corner
> of my eye I see that the Ammeter is pegged (something
> that never happens on my car since I have a wimpy 1231
> Curtis with a 400 a limit and a slow ramp rate). I
> instinctively take my foot off the gas and the current
> drops to zero (thank good for the secondary contactor
> wired through the potbox limit switch).
>
> I am in the dead center of the intersection and the
> light is turning so I gently try the gas again. Same
> violent lurch and then nothing; ammeter drops to 0. I
> hop out and with the help of some adreneline, push the
> car to the curb. My suspicion of what happened
> (controller failure) is reinforced by the smell of
> burned semiconductor in the air. I pop the trunk to
> make sure everything is ok. Nothing obviously amiss so
> I grab my phone to call my wife to ask her to call for
> a tow. As I am explaining my situation a guy drives by
> in a big black SUV and hollers out the window, "Hey
> Man, your car is on Fire".
>
> Sure enough, i see some smoke coming from the engine
> bay and am starting to smell burning plastic. I tell
> my (slightly nervous) wife that I have to go because
> my car is on fire.
>
> I lay down next to the car and quickly recognize the
> source of the flames. Two of the corrugated plastic
> panels that I recently used to make a belly pan for
> the car have caught fire and are dripping molten
> plastic to the ground. Another shot of adreneline
> helped me rip the panels off the bottom of the car and
> put out the small flames. As I am laying under the car
> to make sure there is no more fire, I spotted the
> source of ignition: the plastic ID panel from the back
> of the curtis. The controller must have spit the panel
> when it fried but I didn't notice when looking under
> the trunk lid because that end of the controller faces
> the firewall. The smoldering panel set fire to the
> belly pan plastic and thus the extra excitment for my
> day.
>
> anyway, to make a long story short. The fire was out,
> but the car wasn't going anywhere. I called for a tow.
> within a few minutes, the fire dept stopped by with a
> 50 ft pumper truck (a passer by must have called) but
> I assured them I was all set so they helped me push
> the car into a nearby lot. When i mentioned the car
> was a conversion (sorry for the bad press) they cheif
> was interested and impressed. 'Cool car', he said.
> 'You should see it when it isn't dead'.
> AAA came to get me and towed my car home (only 2
> miles).
>
> So, what have I learned :
>
> 1-Running an old curtis near its voltage limit
> probably shortens its life. Maybe it would have
> happened anyway, but the voltage probably accelerated
> this failure. I used this controller for 3 years at
> 108 V on my jetta and other than sub par performance
> and one moisture problem, i never had any issues. Now
> I was running it at 120 V (of Nicds, so it is close to
> 150 coming off of charge). This is right at the high
> limit for the controller.
>
> 2- Controllers can/will fail shorted. Thank god for
> the secondary contactor. I've always had my EV set up
> this way and I am glad I did. Removing your foot from
> gas pedal is instinctive and fast; i don't know if I
> would have thought to turn off the key in mid
> intersection. Looking through the Zilla manual, it
> seems Otmar doesn't support this kind of set up
> because of precharge complications. Is there a zilla
> compatible wiring method that still has the redundent
> safety I have come to appreciate ?
>
> 3- time to buy a Z1k. This was in the plans anyway but
> i was hoping to wait for my tax refund check. Now, I
> will upgrade to 240 V nominal (200 cells) and order
> the Z1k soon.
>
> oh well. My coworkers will have to wait a couple more
> weeks to see the car I have been talking aobut for the
> last couple months.
>
> I am off to go disect what is left of the controller.
> Perhaps some photos will follow...
>
> ~fortunat
>
>
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