EV Digest 5137
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Hey man, your car is on fire !
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Florida Ampabout Part One, and Finish
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: RPM/efficiency for ADC
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Hey man, your car is on fire !
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Batteries anyone?
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Hey man, your car is on fire !
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Hey man, your car is on fire !
by MIKE & PAULA WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Hey man, your car is on fire !
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Exide Deep Cycle Batteries
by Matt Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Exide Deep Cycle Batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Increasing Range
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Increasing Range
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Increasing Range
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Hey man, your car is on fire !
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Blow DC converter question
by Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Blow DC converter question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) HV dc converter on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Steve's WarP 11, was motor/controller
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Power Supply Question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) ***White Zombie***, Featured Car Of The Month
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Increasing Range
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > This story is WHY you should not have a contactor that cycles > on every power application. Not quite; this is why you shouldn't ever apply power to a Curtis without using a precharge resistor. It is quite possible to have a contactor open each time the throttle is released without undue wear and tear on the controller as long as it leaves traction power connected to the controller through the precharge resistor. For instance, have one contactor (e.g. pack -ve) controlled by the keyswitch and another (pack +ve) by the potbox microswitch. Wire the precharge resistor and the precharge relay across the pack +ve contactor such that when the +ve contactor opens the controller is left connected to the pack via the precharge resistor. The caps cannot now discharge while you have your foot off the throttle at a light and the car cannot runaway since if any real current draw is attempted through the precharge resistor the voltage to the controller will sag to nothing and/or the precharge resistor will fail open. If needed the car can always be completely shut down by turning off the keyswitch and dropping out the pack -ve contactor. > We use the key switch to enable and pull in the contactor. or > more correctly to allow the controller to pre charge itself. > If if can't precharge.. it won't pull in the contactor. The > Zilla and the Raptor/Rex series controllers would drop the > contactor if the micro saw a error or failure in progress. This scheme works fine until the micro loses its mind and holds the contactor in despite other errors or failures... If a controller with "intelligent" precharge is used, the potbox microswitch could probably be used in series with the keyswitch to toggle the controller's enable line. If the caps don't have time to discharge significantly while the throttle is released (e.g. sitting at a light), the delay to re-precharge them when the throttle is pressed should be minimal. However, if you rely on the controller enable line to shut down the controller in the event of a failure resulting in a runaway, you are betting on the failure not affecting the micro and its ability to control the contactor, so the benefit of this scheme is significantly less than if the potbox microswitch controls a contactor directly. I expect that with controllers that look after precharge themselves, disconnecting pack voltage by opening a contactor when the throttle is released while keeping the enable line powered would probably result the micro declaring some sort of failure and locking out the controller until it is reset. So, even with a controller that looks after precharge itself, it might not be totally unreasonable to use the same setup as with a Curtis, but substitute a simple fuse for the precharge resistor: when the throttle is released, the contactor opens and leaves the pack connected to the controller via a small value fuse (e.g. 10A) such that if the controller fails/has failed and attempts to draw any real current the small fuse opens and halts the vehicle. Let the controller have control over the contactor in the other pack supply lead so that if it detects a fault it can also halt the vehicle. Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---> (To be continued, were goin' to the beach!) > > Seeya in the surf! > > Bob > > OK, back from the Beach, and Fla's idalic warm weather, to CT's rainy damp slop. Hell, it isn't snow..yet! After staying at Vero a few daze at my sister's place, called up Steve Clunn, down in Ft Pierce, a short 25 mile run, meetya in a few! Drove into Steve's yard, after He talked me down on the cekll phone" I see ya now, you're in a red car" sort of thing.I had a fire engine red Ponti-crap Sunfire, I think it was.First EVent was a ride, well better yet ,drive ,in Steves 11inch motor truck. WOW! That thing hauls! Well after seeing all the tire smoke at BBB, it was my turn. You put and leave it in 4th gear, drive along at a grandma like 25-30MPH through a school zone. Then when it opens up a bit, nail it! Tires break loose and yoy blast away. Must be like driving Blue Meany or White Ziombie?It puts you back in the seat, the famous EV grin come ALL over you. You re enter Earth atmosphere when you get close to other cars people, driving nicely, but it is hard to resist hitting the amps, like at a lite. I was FIRST away from EVery lite<G.!"Steve ,pick out a good place for lunch, I'll buy"Least I could do, Steve pointed me into an Italion Place, a friend's. We were greeted like old friends, I said to the guy. Try THIS electric, as he had been in other Clunn Cars before. As they took off with smoking tires across the parking lot it did get a notice from the other folks at the restaurant!After stuffing our faces, good food, we went on the rest of the tour. Visiting other Clunn Cars around town, Steve doesn't have enough garage or yard to keep them in one place. He's in the wrong place. Gees ! with his great easy payment plands to get you or somebody into an EV. He builds it and you pay him back each month, but people bomb out! Comon! What better deal? Doesn't bode well for backyard converters!Steve goes out, bends over backwards to get people into EV'sGrassroots EV's his biz. But he hasta mow lawns to stay eating. Sigh! Did I say "Mowing Lawns?" I did. I got to meet his EV mower. The Dixie Chopper. I'm not making thuis up. The Dixie Chopper is a real mower. They are the choice of Yard Men everywhere in FLA at least. saw several others in our drive. Not an arm of the Confederate Air Force" Dixie Choppers picked up the survivers from Ketrina in New Orleons"These are big beefy commercial grade ride on mowers, I would guees with a 10 hp ormore gas engine. No steering wheel, but two hydralic motors for the big drive wheels, controlled by steering sticks, no steering wheel, the front wheels are free floating casters.Steve sez climb on, and he turns on the 8 incher motor, Think of it! Half a White Zombie rig!The blades whirr mennicingly and you push the steering handles forwasrd and off you fly! Time's money for Steve he FLIES along on this thing! I had the amps down low at first, as I go by Steve cranks her on. Gees! Seems like you're flying. It stops at noything, thick grass, dirt ,rocks, charge chords, sucked in as I didn't secure them before liftoff! Steve, like me at Amtrak, keeps the EV Grin at work as well as driving.He's running 96 volts on the Chopper, and if there is any Curtis Squeel, you sure don't hear it!When you have wafted through a few lawns it's time to dump charge from his Red Beastie type truck. He can drive onto the little tilt bed trailer, snap a chain around the mower and he is ready to roll in less time than I could type this<g>!The dump rig is cool, a golf cart controller set up with the dropping resister and wiper contact thing, as the spiral cells charge the voltage drops enpogh he can get the resistance coil out of the circiut , charging her up for the next run.Steve is the guy to talk to about how many cycles ya get with Orb's! After a great afternoon at Steves I shoved off to Tampa, and Jerry's. Drove through Sebring for old times sake. Feh! I didn't recognize ANYTHING, except the downtown circle, a historical landmark, nowadaze. Drove through the racetrack where the Citicar factory used to be. Guess all thew WW2 barracks we used then are all gone? Being it was dark didn't help, couldn't see much.Tried to find my place up rt 17 but disdn't recognize a thing. Well the RR was still there, though.You still can ride the "Silver Metior" there, by Amtrak. Arrived in Tampa, found my way to Riverview, put up for the night at the Bianchi Motel, a blast from the past.Taking you to 50's little cottages style motel that you could plug yur EV in if I HAD one.Hit up Jerry in the AM, found his "Works" on Echo Drive. The great old oak trees there make for a shady place to work in the summer. We loaded up the Freedom's molds to take over to the ' glas place. Alota cool stuff over there, lottsa projects going on there, boats camp trailers, and the Sunrise looking over things from it's lofty perch on top of a shipping container, safely above day to day stuff. Jerry is looking to renting a corner of this place to assemble Freedoms, there as he really isn't set up to build things at home. Steve has got a nice shop building way back in the woods behind a friend's place to do HIS conversions, like Clunn Car 20 or so?I'm glad to see these guyz, Steve and Jerry, getting to the dedicated Shop Phaze of building EV's. Doing then at home is nice for the hobbiest, but ya need real room to get serious.But Jerry has, and is doing the painstaking stuff in his yard, cheaper, and cuts out commuting.Untuil you get there, pick up a few tools and start WORKING on something like this, you are humbled by how much just damn WORK it is to build bodies, or any other part of cars-from-scratch!Especially when you are on a budget.Believe me ,Jerry lives a very plain , humble lifestyle, putting his time and all into the Car.In that he has done so far with the Freedom, working alone, he did hurt his back and was recovering, when I was there. No wonder, stuff is HEAVY, and all laws of gravity are in effect 'til further notice! After running the molds down to the shop Jerry gave me a whirlwind tour of Tampa, the cool 1912 RR station, the harbor, EVen the Trolley cars, nice repro 8 wheel cars. Musta had electronic controllers as my car radio buzzed as I was pacing one?They are a tourist thing, going over to Ybo City.They don't go far enough to be a viable commuter thing, unlike the El trains I saw in Miami, they looked on loan from NYC, scooting along the concrete overhead structure.maybe they had trolley cars in Miami 100 years ago? They DID in Tampa, I think battery cars were tried in the 20's, last trolley car, in Tampa was in 1946, I think, the first time. The TICO, or Tampa Electric Co.are back, in spiffy bright yellow, and look great gliding, to the happy hum of traction motors, along their private right of way. I shoulda gone for a ride. Nice to see electric RR stuff making a comeback in FLA. Maybe wires could go up on the Tri Met in Miami, they are using Diseasels for now.The traffic there is horrendous!95 rt 1 all that is, wall to wall, going like hell, although the Rav-4's keep up./ Fla is IDEAL EV country, flat and no freezes, perfect!So it is great to see EV folks coming to power in the Sunshine State. can you say Solar arrays? To charge your car by.In CT forgetaboutit! It haz rained EVersince I got home! The flite home on Jet Blue was EARLY, they could be drummed out of the Airline biz, They LEAVE on time, EVERY time,novel concept! I have flown with them. Chatted up a interested guy sharing my seat row, and next thing you feel is the skipper putting on the air brakes over NJ to land,You mean they don't use air brakes?A quick ride on the Mono rail Air train thing, looks like it escaped from Dizzy World<g>!Back to Amtrak, and the Acela home to New Haven,CT. Prius patiently waiting my arrival. Wow! A much better than Pontiac car!Home by dark, already, wading through hundreds of E mails. More fun than TV! Was great seeing you guyz again, the FLA Chapter, look forward to the Power Of DC, That's next? then Joliet, RT 66 raceway. Hey! We have a great NEDRA lineup this year. Of course the Woodburn at PIR EVen.Thanks EVerybody! I had a great time. Pix to follow! Seeya all there? Bob
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--- Begin Message ---Leave the Fan in the Darn motor!!! It's there for a reason, and that's good enough for most of us Racers and Road runners. Only serious Racers should remove the fan. And at that I thrash those who do for abusing the motor. Keep in mind a AvDc 9 is a 32 Hp motor, and we stuff 200 + Hp of electrical power through them, there is no such thing as enough cooling. Leave the Fan in unless you are shooting for sub 12 second 1/4 mile times. Madman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:10 PM Subject: Re: RPM/efficiency for ADC > --- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Advanced DC motor have a built-in fan. That fan wastes a lot of >power on unnecessary cooling at > high rpm, and thus hurts >efficiency. > > I plan on using an external fan to cool my ADC 9, would it be advisable to remove the internal > fan? > > Is it physically possible? Down side? > > The motor is not installed yet, so now would be a good time to do it. The risk would be that I'd > have no backup if my external cooling failed. But if I'm willing to take the risk...... > > Dave Cover >
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--- Begin Message ---Hi EVeryone, Otmar is having problems posting to the list, and asked me to post this for him. -Ryan At 12:33 PM -0800 1/29/06, Fortunat Mueller wrote about his Curtis fire: >2- Controllers can/will fail shorted. Thank god for >the secondary contactor. I've always had my EV set up >this way and I am glad I did. Removing your foot from >gas pedal is instinctive and fast; i don't know if I >would have thought to turn off the key in mid >intersection. Looking through the Zilla manual, it >seems Otmar doesn't support this kind of set up >because of precharge complications. Is there a zilla >compatible wiring method that still has the redundent >safety I have come to appreciate ? Hi Fortunat, I'm very sorry to hear about your controller failure. That doesn't sound like fun. I'm glad you were able to stop the fire before it took out the car. It certainly could have been much worse. btw: I'm, curious. What make and part number fuse were you running? Did it blow? Sometimes a fast enough fuse can prevent such a fire. To answer your question: I've never seen a Zilla fail its power section full on like that. But if it were to happen then there are a number of backup contingencies that should drop out the main contactor in less than 1/2 second in a worst case. Attempting to restart a Zilla with the output transistors shorted (internally or some other external means which bypass it) would then cause a precharge error and the Hairball will not pull in the main contactor. The Zilla itself checks the integrity of its power section hundreds of times a second. If there is reasonable current flowing and the Zilla is unable to turn off the motor for a few microseconds (even at full throttle) then the microcontroller in the Zilla sends a error code to the Hairball telling the Hairball microcontroller to turn off the main contactor. Also, if for for some reason the Hairball stops receiving valid "I'm OK" data from the Zilla then the Hairball assumes the worst and again shuts the system down with the main contactor. In that case it will not even try to resume normal operation until the key is turned off for some time and tried again. If the Hairball and the Zilla were somehow both able to lose their minds at exactly the same time, and somehow kept running despite the hardware and software watchdogs in each of them then I suppose the driver would be reduced to turning off the key to force the contactor to turn off. Cycling the main contactor with the pedal has been discussed at length before and I've always felt it to be unnecessary due to the systems already in the Zilla/Hairball combination. I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to change the Hairball code to make it possible. I'd consider such a mod if someone felt strongly that it was important in addition to all the built in safeties. On the downside, microswitch problems are not uncommon in cars using that technique and it could be a source of nuisance trips of errors and damage to the contactor from switching under load. hth, -- -Otmar- http://www.CafeElectric.com/ The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon. Now accepting resumes. Please see: http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
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--- Begin Message ---Location, Location, Location? Rush Tucson AZ www.ironandwood.org > At 07:07 AM 1/31/2006, Seth Rothenberg wrote: >>Would anyone be interested in about 1000 lb of batteries >>without a known history? > > It might help to know what kind they are? A million Watch Batteries, > or one forklift battery? >
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--- Begin Message ---Rich Rudman wrote: > What you did was kill your Curtis with that contactor. Every time > you put your foot on the Juice the contactor comes in and does a > VIOLENT precharge of the Caps in the Curtiss. > > This story is WHY you should not have a contactor that cycles on > every power application. Curtis controllers don't have much capacitor, > and they don't like being hammered every couple of seconds while > driving. I don't recall whether he said he had a precharge resistor across the contactor or not. If he *did* have this resistor, then the capacitors will remain charged with the contactor off, and there isn't a problem with extra strain on them. If he did *not* have a precharge resistor across the contactor, then the controller's capacitors would slowly discharge whenever he released the potbox. He would then get a very high current surge to recharge them when the contactor pulled in again. This would indeed be hard on the capacitors and the contactor. -- If you would not be forgotten When your body's dead and rotten Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth repeating -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Just out of curiosity how long typically do the caps stay charged in the Curtis, Raptor and Zilla's when disconnected from the pack? Do they have a designed in bleed off circuit? ----- Original Message ----- From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 12:43 pm Subject: Re: Hey man, your car is on fire ! To: [email protected] > Rich Rudman wrote: > > What you did was kill your Curtis with that contactor. Every time > > you put your foot on the Juice the contactor comes in and does a > > VIOLENT precharge of the Caps in the Curtiss. > > > > This story is WHY you should not have a contactor that cycles on > > every power application. Curtis controllers don't have much > capacitor,> and they don't like being hammered every couple of > seconds while > > driving. > > I don't recall whether he said he had a precharge resistor across the > contactor or not. If he *did* have this resistor, then the capacitors > will remain charged with the contactor off, and there isn't a problem > with extra strain on them. > > If he did *not* have a precharge resistor across the contactor, > then the > controller's capacitors would slowly discharge whenever he > released the > potbox. He would then get a very high current surge to recharge them > when the contactor pulled in again. This would indeed be hard on the > capacitors and the contactor. > -- > If you would not be forgotten > When your body's dead and rotten > Then write of great deeds worth the reading > Or do the great deeds worth repeating > -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac > -- > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, > leeahart_at_earthlink.net >
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--- Begin Message ---Thanks Ryan. Thanks Otmar. Having met you and worked briefly in your shop, I tend to trust your engineering instincts and the robustness of your design. I can't say the same for Curtis. The Zilla obviously has several redundant layers of safety built in which probably more than compensates for not having a secondary contactor which drops out with the accelerator. i didn't realize that the hairball has its own micro and watch dog; i guess i thought it was mostly just a convenient interface panel. I will take another read through your manual and figure out if all this seems sufficient for my case. As for your question, I will look up the fuse P/N but I am pretty sure that I have two fuses in the circuit and that one of them is a quick blow semiconductor fuse. Neither fuse blew in this case. To clarify, i don't know that the controller itself was ever 'on fire'. It did somehow spit that plastic endcap (where the model and SN info is), and this piece landed ontop of my bellypan which subsequently caught fire. So the piece itself may or may not have been on fire, but it was hot enough to ignite the corrugated plastic none the less. Rich : I have wondered about the loss of precharge due to opening the secondary contactor when stopped. Maybe it was never an issue when i was at a lower voltage because i was generally being easy on the controller, but now that i am close to the voltage limit, i am sure you are right that it is hard on the caps. In your opinion, how quickly does the capacitor bank lose charge when disconnected ? Is it substantially discharged in a matter of seconds ? or does it take longer ? Is this self discharge or does some controller function pull the caps down (in the absence of any throttle input) ? Thanks for the advice. Otmar, unpack your damm boxes already...i think i will be ordering a zilla 1k....probably through evsource, i suppose. ~fortunat --- Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi EVeryone, > > Otmar is having problems posting to the list, and > asked me to post this for him. > > -Ryan > > At 12:33 PM -0800 1/29/06, Fortunat Mueller wrote > about his Curtis fire: > > >2- Controllers can/will fail shorted. Thank god for > >the secondary contactor. I've always had my EV set > up > >this way and I am glad I did. Removing your foot > from > >gas pedal is instinctive and fast; i don't know if > I > >would have thought to turn off the key in mid > >intersection. Looking through the Zilla manual, it > >seems Otmar doesn't support this kind of set up > >because of precharge complications. Is there a > zilla > >compatible wiring method that still has the > redundent > >safety I have come to appreciate ? > > Hi Fortunat, > I'm very sorry to hear about your controller > failure. That doesn't > sound like fun. I'm glad you were able to stop the > fire before it > took out the car. It certainly could have been much > worse. > > btw: I'm, curious. What make and part number fuse > were you running? > Did it blow? Sometimes a fast enough fuse can > prevent such a fire. > > To answer your question: I've never seen a Zilla > fail its power > section full on like that. But if it were to happen > then there are a > number of backup contingencies that should drop out > the main > contactor in less than 1/2 second in a worst case. > Attempting to > restart a Zilla with the output transistors shorted > (internally or > some other external means which bypass it) would > then cause a > precharge error and the Hairball will not pull in > the main contactor. > > The Zilla itself checks the integrity of its power > section hundreds > of times a second. If there is reasonable current > flowing and the > Zilla is unable to turn off the motor for a few > microseconds (even at > full throttle) then the microcontroller in the Zilla > sends a error > code to the Hairball telling the Hairball > microcontroller to turn off > the main contactor. Also, if for for some reason the > Hairball stops > receiving valid "I'm OK" data from the Zilla then > the Hairball > assumes the worst and again shuts the system down > with the main > contactor. In that case it will not even try to > resume normal > operation until the key is turned off for some time > and tried again. > If the Hairball and the Zilla were somehow both able > to lose their > minds at exactly the same time, and somehow kept > running despite the > hardware and software watchdogs in each of them then > I suppose the > driver would be reduced to turning off the key to > force the contactor > to turn off. > > Cycling the main contactor with the pedal has been > discussed at > length before and I've always felt it to be > unnecessary due to the > systems already in the Zilla/Hairball combination. I > suppose it > wouldn't be too hard to change the Hairball code to > make it possible. > I'd consider such a mod if someone felt strongly > that it was > important in addition to all the built in safeties. > On the downside, > microswitch problems are not uncommon in cars using > that technique > and it could be a source of nuisance trips of errors > and damage to > the contactor from switching under load. > > hth, > -- > -Otmar- > > http://www.CafeElectric.com/ > The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon. > Now accepting resumes. Please see: > http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 10:26:01 -0800, you wrote: >> Anybody got experience with Crown Batterys? > >I've mentioned before that I have some experience with Crown batteries. >They seem to be a quality product and deliver their rated capacity. At >present my experience is limited to the larger CR325 and CR395 models >(325Ah & 395Ah flooded 6V), however, I will shortly be testing some >CR225s (225Ah 6V, basically T105 counterparts). How do they cost compare? Matt Milliron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1981 Jet Electrica, Ford Escort My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black, electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
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--- Begin Message ---Matt Milliron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > How do they cost compare? Dunno; I was supplied with samples to do charge algorithm development/testing with. I assume they couldn't stay in business if they weren't competitive; contact them and see what sort of price you can get: <http://www.crownbattery.com/en/howtobuy/howtobuy.html> Cheers, Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---At 12:44 PM 1/30/2006, Roger Stockton wrote:Why do you think that? 100V may certainly be too low to achieve the sort of highway speeds you require, but your controller would have no problem with it as the Raptors are rated for 48-156VDC (nominal), 36-180VDC (maximum):I do need to be able to go 60mph, up a gentle hill.Anyone know if that is possible with an 8" ADC, that will be up near it's RPM limits? (Sparrow is "geared" for a max of 70mph.)The cleaner option would definitely be to upgrade to a controller with a higher maximum input voltage so that you can use a single longer string of cells. The Z1k HV is a logical choice, but this would be a bit of a cash outlay (I figure more like $2k than $3k since your Raptor shouldn't be hard to resell to recoup some of the Z1k cost). Given the space limitations in a Sparrow, I'm not sure how challenging it might be to squeeze a Z1k + mandatory hairball + water cooling system in place of a Raptor, especially once you've packed the extra cells into the bird.I know that a couple of other Sparrows have Z1K's in them, so it's possible.Right now, adding the extra cells would take up the space where I wanted to put the PFC-20. I have one other possible location for the charger (haven't done a test-fit yet), but it's a royal PITA to access there. I'd definitely have to setup a remote control panel for it.If it were my money, I would definitely go for a controller upgrade rather than dropping $800-900 on an inverter that will make lessYeah, though I did realize I have an older 1500W inverter sitting on the shelf. I could experiment with it. The biggest problem with using an additional battery pack is the extra effort to charge it.The 20min you spend on the ferry could completely solve the problem if you were able to find some way to charge during the trip. 1.3hr @ 30A (PFC30) = 10Ah into a 164V pack for 1.6kWh results in just over 8 miles additional range at 195Wh/mi.Oh, the Ferry has some outlets, but: A) It's likely to be a hassle and hit or miss to get permission to use them. B) I'm pretty sure they are 10 or 15A 120V. Pretty low charge rate.Assuming you are down at least 10Ah by the time you reach the ferry dock, is there any possibility of arranging an opportunity charge *before* getting on the boat?I'm working on finding out if that is possible. I have to find an outside outlet somewhere that isn't in the way, then get permission to use it.Someone else suggests that perhaps the Sparrow gearing doesn't result in very efficient motor operation at lower speeds; if you don't need the full top speed of the stock Sparrow, perhaps this is something toI need 60, and preferably 70mph, so top speed is required. -- John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---At 12:56 PM 1/30/2006, mike golub wrote:webesto is expensive. Wouldn't he do better with a Mr. Buddy propane? Unless it's not allowed on the ferry?Installing a fuel-powered heater into a Sparrow just feels like some kind of Sin.Plus, there just isn't much room. -- John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---At 04:55 PM 1/29/2006, Christopher Zach wrote:Sparrow runs at 150wh/mile, that's around 7 miles or so range, assuming no loss. Assuming 90% eff onMy bird runs at about 195WH/Mile @ 50MPH.I've heard people talk about theirs getting 150WH/Mile, but they never mention their cruising speed while doing so.-- John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ------ Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, actually Otmar wrote: > > btw: I'm, curious. What make and part number fuse > were you running? > Did it blow? Sometimes a fast enough fuse can > prevent such a fire. I have two fuses in the circuit and neither one blew during my 'overtemperature event' (a euphamism i have learned to use liberally at work). They are both Bussmann ANN quick blow fuses. One is 300 A and one is 500 A. Here is the cut sheet : http://www.bussman.com/library/bifs/2023.PDF if I read it right, the 300 A fuse should blow in aobut 0.4 seconds at 1000 A. I don't know what the actual current was when the controller failed but my 500 A meter was pegged. Of course it was really a very brief burst thanks to the contactor opening. does this seem like an appropriate fuse to you ? ~fortunat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---I have a 1993 Soleq Evcort electric car. It was converted by the now out of business company Soleq. My 40A peak (i think) 13.8V DC/DC converter has failed, and I am trying to figure out a way to replace it. Soleq implemented it rather strangely - the main battery pack is connected to the converter at all times, but when the accessory battery closes the main contactor, the motor controller sends a 800hz PWM square wave to the dcdc converter, and it starts generating 12v and charging the accessory battery. Additionally, some functions operate when the key is off (from the battery) â voltage and current sense when charging, automatic seatbelts, door lights, flashers, etc. Here are the options I have thought of: 1 Add a contactor for a new dcdc converter (a pain, as the main control box is specifically designed). 2 Leave the new dcdc connected directly to the main battery pack ALL the time (is this crazy?) 3 Find a dcdc converter that is 12v on/off controllable. 4 Try to repair the original dcdc controller. Any opinions on the options? Anyone have any suggestions for specific converters that are good? Thanks! Tim
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--- Begin Message ---> Here are the options I have thought of: > > 1 Add a contactor for a new dcdc converter (a pain, as the main > control box is > specifically designed). > > 2 Leave the new dcdc connected directly to the main battery pack ALL > the time (is this crazy?) > > 3 Find a dcdc converter that is 12v on/off controllable. > > 4 Try to repair the original dcdc controller. > > Any opinions on the options? Anyone have any suggestions for specific > converters that are good? There were (are?) converters that have two settings (Todd/Iota) - "low" setting left on all the time (13.5V or so), using the keyswitch turns on a higher voltage (~14.5V). You might be able to do this with a Vicor or other adjustable converter, since it's just a change in resistor value for these.
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--- Begin Message ---Model VI-B62 takes 200-400Vdc input, and the 15Vdc output can be trimmed down: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7586424501
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--- Begin Message -------- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Bohm" >George at Netgain mentioned your WarP 11 - said you laid a pretty good strip of rubber recently! You'll have to tell us all about it! :)Hi Ryan and all . I'm just getting to know this motor , it is NOT a 11" kostove re done , I could never make up my mind what motor I liked better in the pre zilla days , My second motor was a 11 kostofe ( which I will spell different each time I use it and hope to get it right once ) . I ran a zapi with re gen about 10 years ago with both motors. In the truck that went to BBB it first had a ADC 9" , and 1k 300v zilla which I was running at 264v . I was getting tire spin in 2nd but not 3rd with this set up . The motor was acting very funny at 450 battery amps like a boom and you think it can't run after that. but it did , like nothing happened , I boomed the motor 3 times and then ordered the net gain 11 with BBB 2 weeks away. Net gains 11 has the same bolt pattern . Now with the 11 I'm seeing wheel spin in 3ed ( still 1k ) and I'm feeling like not having a working clutch is going to be OK . I was having a problem when I'd push the new set up hard , the 1k zilla was dropping the contactor right when the power would start to come on strong . When I switched to the 2k zilla, the day before BBB I noticed that the points on the Albright sw200 had some , what looked like melted steel on them , almost like welding slag. I had noticed some steel fillings that the magnetic blow outs in the contactor had collected . I think that this steel dust may have gotten picked up when the contactor opened while under load on a test run when the 12v batteries went low . The steel dust had probable come for all the work I had done , grinding , cutting ect , with the contactor laying around , just another thing to look out for . The net gain 11 has the same number of com bars as the 9 but they are wider bars as the diameter of the com is bigger , with this means I don't know. The motor info says 135 lbs of torque at 72 v compared to the 9's 70 lbs at 72v . This is probable the reason that the 11 in 4th gear feels like the same pull as the 9 in 2nd . I have the motor voltage set at 170 and a 9 at 170v is singing , but this 11 kind of feels like its not near full rpm. I would almost say that the feel of the 11 in 3ed and 4th gears is like the 9 in 1st and 2nd . 3ed with the 11 has the "run out of toque to soon" feel you get when in first gear with a 9. of course the MPH is around 80 instead of 40 ( 2n gear 9) . I need to get out on the hi way and take it up to top speed in 3nd , check the amps and then 4 th and check the amps. My gut feel is that this motor can take more voltage , , or maybe a higher rear. I'm thinking about 2 11's with series parallel switching , and some big tires , just so we can pull some big amps at higher speeds , ya I'm hooked , got a auto cross that happens in my town once a month . going to be at the next one , you bet. --RyanSteve Clunn I still got one more day at BBB to write about , just no time .
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--- Begin Message ---Without knowing the particulars of the power supply, it's probably better to disconnect the input. Some power supplies actually do bad things when their output is disconnected. > With a transformer-based power supply, like the one on my PC, as long as > the > supply is plugged in, there is always AC pulsing through the primary coil > even when there's nothing connected to the secondary side. So some small > amount of energy is being consumed by the resistance in the primary, thus > the power supply case is always a little warm. > > With a switch mode supply connected to my traction pack, like a DC/DC > converter or the little wall-wart that Roger Stockton suggested to power > my > 56V coils, if the output side is disconnected, is the input side still > consuming power? > > I guess my base questions is: When you want to turn off the power supply > (for example, when the car is parked and you just want to power things > from > the 12V battery), should you put the disconnect switch on the input side > or > the output side? > > Thanks. > > Bill Dennis > > -- If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long legalistic signature is void.
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--- Begin Message ---Congratulations John, and thank you to all the loyal fans for bringing electric vehicles to the forefront. Surely this and the fact that you guys put a lot time and effort into the cars, will open some eyes. Again, Thanks and Congratulations. Mike, Anchorage, AK.<<attachment: winmail.dat>>
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--- Begin Message ---I was under the impression that the TOyota and Honda hybrids surpased the emmissions requirements, receiving ultra low emmissions ratings or some such. > I'd be interested to see the power and torque curves of those ICE > machines. > It wouldn't surprise me to find that they were less efficient than some of > the well tuned ICE only engines running around. Back in the early I > remember having a friend that got ~60mpg in her Honda Civic. The reason I > say this is because I'm not sure the Hybrid engines have to meet the > strict > emissions control restrictions the regular ICE cars do. Does anyone have > these curves or can comment on them? > > Mike, > Anchorage, AK. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of mike golub > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 5:55 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Increasing Range > > > Does pulse and glide help ev's? > > http://www.metrompg.com/posts/pulse-and-glide.htm > > > --- Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Around Jan. 21, there was a thread called "is this a >> good idea?" about >> putting batteries AFTER the controller. I think Lee >> Hart responded on Jan >> 21. saying that it would be possible. Could you put >> your 30 cells after the >> controller and follow Lee's plan? >> >> Bill Dennis >> >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > -- If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long legalistic signature is void.
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