EV Digest 5165
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EV article in "Make" magazine
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Acoustic noise from Vacuum Pump
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Caution on Mounting Flexible Solar Panels on Cars
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Riding the White Zombie and other EVents (long)
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Armature Air Gap effects
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Vegetable oil as replacement for gasoline heater.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Vegetable oil as replacement for gasoline heater.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Caution on Mounting Flexible Solar Panels on Cars
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Acoustic noise from Vacuum Pump
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Vegetable oil as replacement for gasoline heater.
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Motor Temperature
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Coupler .. Loose or tight
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Motor Temperature
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Vegetable oil as replacement for gasoline heater.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Tour de Sol Press Release
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Vacuum Brake Help needed
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Jesse James & Monster Garage Go Lithium!!!
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Vegetable oil as replacement for gasoline heater.
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) "This New Car" -- Anyone listening?
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Vegetable oil as replacement for gasoline heater.
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: roadside EV repair/look out for this
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Motor Temperature
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: "This New Car" -- Anyone listening?
by James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: "This New Car" -- Anyone listening?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Re: "This New Car" -- Anyone listening?
by david woolard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: "This New Car" -- Anyone listening?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Vegetable oil as replacement for gasoline heater.
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Battery Manu. looking for applications:
by Brian Cole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: "This New Car" -- Anyone listening?
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Coupler .. Loose or tight
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I just received issue #5 of "Make" magazine <http://www.makezine.com>,
and was pleased to find an article on EVs. It's titled "Electric Avenue"
by Charles Platt, and has photos of Mark Mongillo, Roderick Wilde, Tom
True, and Don Crabtree; plus pictures of Mark's "Fiamp", John Wayland's
"Blue Meany", Rod's "Going Postal" and Tom's Datsun "Z". There is also a
shot of John's garage illustrating all the basic components needed.
Overall, it's a very positive article on how people can build their own
EVs on a budget.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I ran a Thomas in my S-10 Blazer before I ordered a pump from metric mind, an
MES I believe.
It was alot quieter, smaller and just looked a lot nicer then the old big
loud thomas. I mounted it in a innertube under the batteries in the rear seat.
You couldn't hear it at all unless you were really listening to it. Even in
stop and go traffic I didn't lose vacuum assist.
It even lasted through me washing down my batteries and filling the innertube
with water. I wouldn't suggest doing that and didn't mean to in the first place
but it was perfectly fine.
I'd buy one now for my S-15 pickup but I'm saving all my pennies for my honda
shadow parts so I can have my ev motorcycle on the road in the spring. Plus my
thomas works fine and my truck has alot of other noises that kind of drown it
out being a rusted old bucket.
Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ask the list. People who bought MES pump must have ran something
else before so can five you a feed back.
So far all the customers were happy with MES pump, but they
don't mention comparison with previous version.
About 40 pumps are sold so far and some people who bought
it are on the EVDL list.
Victor
Grigg. John wrote:
> Has anyone on this list compared the noise level generated from
> different vacuum pumps? I'm frustrated with how loud the Thomas pump
> is.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
> John Grigg
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> This email and any attachments thereto may contain private, confidential, and
> privileged material for the
> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of
> this email (or any attachments
> thereto) by other than the County of Sacramento or the intended recipient is
> strictly prohibited.
>
> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately
> and permanently
> delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto.
> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Solvents for cured silicone are quite rare and of questionable
effectiveness. When searching, be sure to distinguish between products
and methods for removing uncured vs cured silicone.
http://www.geocel.co.uk/PDFs/Data%20Sheets/Dow%20Corning%20Silicone%20Sealant%20Remover.pdf
A wire brush can do it too, if you're careful not to damage the panel's
surface underneath. That may be difficult.
Danny
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You need some STRONG solvent to remove silicone however there are
rubbing wheels you can get at the auto paint supply stores used for
taking off skid protection found on the bottom panels on most normal
trucks / vans etc. It's like a rubber eraser effect. It will work
wonders on rubber, plastic and silicone material. Go to any DuPont or
auto paint supply store and tell them what you are doing. Try these
wheels I think they will do the job and a lot safer than solvents. Use
any standard medium duty drill.
Bad looking rust! Better to have the right adhesive material if you
are doing this again and don't allow water to penetrate below.
Pedroman
Now, who knows how to remove the adhesive on these
panels. They are now full of rust. I tried rubbing
alcohol and lighter fluid. None worked.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments interspersed.
--- ProEV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Then, for the rest of the run, the AWD car has about a 10%
>> weight penalty,
>
> While this might be true for ICE cars, it is not necessarily true
> for a two
> motor electric car. If we are running two motors anyway, connecting
> them
> directly to the front and rear diff does not cost any weight.
Good point, you don't need the center diff or extra driveshaft or
heavier tranny. However, I'd still guess there's 100 or 150 lbs more
than a RWD would have (diff and 2 axles). Also, this is more rotating
weight and some of it is geared. So I think it is still about 3 to 5%
more weight than RWD, and with rotational effects its is effectively
more (maybe 1% more effectively). You also have the losses of a 2nd
diff and 4 extra CV joints (there goes another 3 or 5%). So it would
not surprise me at all if even an electric AWD straight-line
accelerated 5 or 10% slower than an equivalent RWD once above
traction issues speed.
Also, didn't you go AWD for the better regen braking? No question AWD
excels at that.
> Of course, for drag racing if you are doing a wheelie, it would not
> help to
> have half your power going to the airborne wheels.
True. Point being that a RWD doing a wheelie is accelerating as fast
as an AWD not doing a wheelie (all the weight is on the powered
wheels).
> >it was tough
> > to justify AWD even for racing, except for low speed (autocross)
> or
> > slippery surfaces. RWD turns out to be a pretty good compromise,
> and
> > there are good reasons why most paved-surface racecars are RWD.
>
> Umm, you are always traction limited when road racing (i.e. it is
> always a
> slippery surface)- or you are not pushing the car hard enough.
Generally speaking this is true on a low speed course, like an
autocross course can be. For instance, on a 1st gear autocross
course, my car is traction limited at our venue, even for straight
line acceleration. Once I'm in 2nd gear, if I'm going straight I'm
power limited, not traction limited.
At the other extreme, on a very high speed course (like Open Road
Racing), you are power limited almost the whole race, not traction
limited. AWD doesn't help you here, it actually hurts. You don't see
many AWD cars in Open Road Racing. <http://www.openroadracing.com/>
> Being able to
> accelerate with all four wheels is usually an advantage.
For drag racing, it is an advantage for the 1st fraction of a second
the RWD is lofting its front wheels, and then a disadvantage for
extra weight and drag.
For cars designed to corner well, good street tires, AWD can
accelerate at 1 g at first, RWD about 0.7 g. Use Power = Force *
Velocity, and for a typical AWD AX car (3300 lbs, about 250 hp) you
are down to about 0.7 g acceleration at around 40 mph. So the AWD vs.
RWD breakpoint is about 40 mph, RWD should be faster on the 40+ mph
course.
So that's great for straight line stuff, what about cornering? For
deaccelerating, advantage RWD (bit lighter). For pure cornering,
advantage RWD, a bit lighter and you can steer the car with the
throttle. What about squirting out of the turn? AWD has a slight
advantage here, during that short time of transition from pure
cornering to pure straight line acceleration. Straightaway? Below 40
mph advantage AWD, above 40 advantage RWD.
A couple of fine points: Most AWDs have an open front diff, so they
are limited in how much power they can apply in the turn. Most RWD
cars are tuned with some steady state understeer, so you can get on
the gas a bit harder coming out of the turn.
> Sanctioning
> organization tend to required four wheel drive cars to run with a
> weight
> penalty that nullifies the advantage to keep a good mix of cars. In
> a more
> open rules format like German Touring Car a few years back, all the
> teams
> were running four wheel drive.
Interesting, which sanctioning organizations are those, is it SCCA?
Here's a counterpoint: SCCA autocross changed classing to allow AWD
into ESP, which had traditionally been a Mustang and Camaro class.
There was weeping, moaning, and gnashing of teeth -- the pony car
owners were sure the AWDs were going to stomp them. To many people's
surprise, the pony cars have been holding their own and beating the
AWD cars. This might change this summer when nationals switches from
a high grip course to a lower grip course. The AWD cars do well at
ProSolo events that have a drag race start.
So don't get me wrong, I have 4WD for the snow and want my wife to
get an AWD car. I was surprised, though, when I started doing some
math and research that AWD was not as much of an advantage as I had
guessed. For road racing like you are doing, the regen advantages are
very clear with AWD. For me, planning on cheaper lead-acid batteries,
anything longer that an AX run is out of the question, so regen isn't
much help, so RWD seemed a good compromise. I did note you beat all
the RWD cars at BBB autocross. :)
Another promising area I think is 4 wheel intelligent traction
control for cornering. Not to just stop wheel spin, but to help the
car yaw correctly. Ultimately, input the course and have the car
adjust for slaloms vs. corners, for instance. I think an EV would be
the ultimate way to do this.
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BFRListmail wrote:
> I've been trying to learn more about the effects of armature air
> gap on DC motors. Most of the resources that I've found talk about
> the torque/speed relationship. Specifically in a Permanent Magnet
> motor, the smaller the armature air gap, the greater the torque,
> at the cost of lost speed. Likewise the larger the armature air
> gap, the greater the speed, at the cost of lost torque. Seems like
> a simple trade off.
This is one of those cases where a simple explanation is too simple, and
leads one to false conclusions.
The torque is produced by the strength of the magnetic field. You can
think of the field strength (magnetic flux) as the "current" flowing in
the magnetic circuit. The air gap is a "resistance" (magnetic
reluctance) in this circuit. The bigger the air gap, the greater the
reluctance. This in turn lowers the magnetic flux, which reduces torque.
But, the important point that "torque=air gap" misses is how MUCH the
air gap affects the torque. Let's think in terms of a battery powering a
motor. The connecting wires between the battery and motor have some
resistance, and thus some voltage drop. But this is so small as to be
negligible. If you have a 100v battery and the wire has a 0.1v drop, the
motor is getting 99.9v. Increasing the wire's resistance by 10:1 only
drops the motor voltage to 99.0v; less than a 1% change for a 10:1
change in resistance.
But if the resistance is very large compared to the motor, it has a
large effect on motor voltage. If the motor is 1 ohm and wiring is 1
ohm, then the motor only get 50v and half your power is burned up in the
wiring!
Now apply this to motors. If the air gap is very small, it has no real
effect on torque (or speed), because its reluctance is negligible
compared to the reluctance of the rest of the magnetic circuit. You will
find this to be the case with large motors. The total magnetic path
length is over 12" on a 9" dia. motor, and the air gap is only 0.012"
(1/1000th). So, doubling the air gap to 0.024" has fairly little effect,
but makes the motor a lot easier to build.
But a little R/C airplane motor has a magnetic path length under 1". It
is *far* more sensitive to the size of the air gap. The same 0.012" gap
is 12 times more significant. Cheap little toy motors have such sloppy
tolerances and large air gaps that the size of the air gap almost
completely controls the torque/speed of the motor.
> It talks about the high reluctance of air in the gap. It takes more
> energy to push magnetic flux through the air than steel.
Here the electrical analogy breaks down. The air gap is not a
resistance; it does not cause an energy loss. It does not (directly)
affect efficiency.
The air gap affects efficiency indirectly. The gap lowers the field
strength, a little or a lot as described above. The weaker field means
you need more turns of wire in the electrical circuit to reach the same
volts per turn. This extra wire adds resistance. It is this *resistance*
that adds losses to lower the efficiency.
Or, you can get the magnetic flux back up by lowering the reluctance of
the rest of the magnetic circuit. But this adds iron, and the extra iron
increases the core losses. Again, this lowers the efficiency.
> Would most motors benefit from a small air gap? Are air gaps
> typically on the high side due to mass production, etc?
Too small a gap creates manufacturing problems. But they can be dealt
with (it's only money :-) However, too small a gap causes other
problems. The magnetic flux is flowing between the rotor and stator. As
the rotor and its coils turn, this flux keeps reversing at any given
point. With a large air gap, the reversals are softer and more gradual.
With a small gap, the reversals occur abruptly. The abrupt changes
increase the core losses at these points.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would suggest that you pioneer converting your gasoline heater to
ethanol. I'll bet that just changing the fuel lines to something more
compatible with alcohol will do the trick and the heater will run well
and without odor.
Mike
Yes so true Mike but the veggie oil is free. Lawrence.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found out that systems that use vegetable oil in furnaces will preheat the
oil to 275° F. Not sure I can do that. I'll do more research.
LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: Vegetable oil as replacement for gasoline heater.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I own an Electravan that has a gasoline heater. I have seen
conversions for house heaters from natural gas/oil to vegetable
oil. Has anyone converted any of the gasoline heaters so they
will work on vegetable oil?
It's possible, but challenging. Oil is *far* harder to light. A tiny
spark plug or glow plug will light gasoline, propane, or natural gas.
But the spark igniter for oil needs over 100 times more energy.
The oil we normally get here in the USA is also incredibly dirty. It
will foul the spark gap, and makes a big mess of the combustion chamber.
I don't know how long your gasoline heater would hold up if you burned
oil in it.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's one from eastwood and the price is about right. The last one I bought
lasted two trucks taking off the protective stone shield along the rocker
panels. It works great and I don't see why it wouldn't work with silicone.
Let us know how it goes...
Pedroman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 11:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Caution on Mounting Flexible Solar Panels on Cars
> there are rubbing
> wheels you can get at the auto paint supply stores used for taking off
> skid protection found on the bottom panels on most normal trucks /
> vans etc. It's like a rubber eraser effect.
Is this it?
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=1913&itemType=PRODUCT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have my MES pump mounted on the motor end bracket. This bracket is
isolated from the vehicle frame by a nice, thick rubber bushing (original
engine mounting bushing). I can hear the pump a little when the car isn't
moving, but not much otherwise. Functionally, it works very well.
Ralph
Victor Tikhonov writes:
>
> I do use MES-DEA pump in my car, Ralph Mervin, Gary Graunke and
> Paul Wallace (from what I can recall without digging paperwork,
> all on the list) also have MES pump installed.
>
> Please ask these people.
>
> Victor
>
> --
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
> Grigg. John wrote:
> > I already have the pump installed in the engine compartment but I will
> > look into the sound insulating box idea for the rear of the vehicle.
> > I guess the biggest problem with my Thomas pump there is no exhaust
> > muffler. Trying to find something that would fit on the pump has been
> > difficult...
> >
> > Has anyone used other pumps like the MES. I don't think I would try any
> > repurposed medical units though... :-)
> >
> > John Grigg
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Ward
> > Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 11:20 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Cc: Grigg. John
> > Subject: Re: Acoustic noise from Vacuum Pump
> >
> > Have you thought about putting it in a sound insulated box and
> > installing it where your gas tank used to be? On my saab the area
> > under the back seat used to have the fuel tank. It now has the vacuum
> > resorvoir and will soon have the pump as well. They make a black
> > insulation material in a roll that is covered with foil for noise
> > insulation. Maybe try adding some to the box to reduce the noise.
> >
> > Mark Ward
> > St. Charles, MO
> > 95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
> > www.saabrina.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---- "Grigg. John" wrote:
> >
> >>Has anyone on this list compared the noise level generated from
> >>different vacuum pumps? I'm frustrated with how loud the Thomas pump
> >>is.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>John Grigg
> >>
> >>______________________________________________________________________
> >>_____________________________________
> >>This email and any attachments thereto may contain private,
> >>confidential, and privileged material for the sole use of the intended
> >
> >
> >>recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any
> >>attachments
> >>thereto) by other than the County of Sacramento or the intended
> >
> > recipient is strictly prohibited.
> >
> >>If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
> >>immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this
> >
> > email and any attachments thereto.
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > ___________________________________
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
might want to ckeck out the yahoo group called
"altfuelfurnace"
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I found out that systems that use vegetable oil in
> furnaces will preheat the
> oil to 275� F. Not sure I can do that. I'll do
> more research.
> LR..........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 4:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Vegetable oil as replacement for
> gasoline heater.
>
>
> > Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >> I own an Electravan that has a gasoline heater. I
> have seen
> >> conversions for house heaters from natural
> gas/oil to vegetable
> >> oil. Has anyone converted any of the gasoline
> heaters so they
> >> will work on vegetable oil?
> >
> > It's possible, but challenging. Oil is *far*
> harder to light. A tiny
> > spark plug or glow plug will light gasoline,
> propane, or natural gas.
> > But the spark igniter for oil needs over 100 times
> more energy.
> >
> > The oil we normally get here in the USA is also
> incredibly dirty. It
> > will foul the spark gap, and makes a big mess of
> the combustion chamber.
> > I don't know how long your gasoline heater would
> hold up if you burned
> > oil in it.
> > --
> > Ring the bells that still can ring
> > Forget the perfect offering
> > There is a crack in everything
> > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
> Cohen
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 9, 2006, jmygann wrote:
Should the coupler from the motor shaft to the flywheel be tight or
have some movement ?
What type of motor coupling? If you are talking about a keyway and set
screw coupler it had better be tight and locktight-ed too (most common,
but falling out of favor.) They are a weak link in many conversions.
Likewise, a taperlock needs to be tight to do its job (2nd most common
and gaining ground.) If its a spline coupler you would not want it so
tight that there was any spline binding.
At what temperature is the motor running too hot ?
Rule of thumb - if you can't hold your hand on the motor case. If the
motor is seeing amps several times over its continuous rating its
usually the brush temperature you have to worry about first. Harder to
spot check but every bit as critical. Also, this is not usually a
problem with well sized motor and a modest power controller.
Are temperature gauges being used ?? Temp. cutoff ?
Where/how are they being mounted ??
Generally not some type of cutoff. It could be dangerous for either an
EV or ICE car if overheating caused a forced shutdown (likely at a
really bad time.) Many of the motors used in EVs have a built in
thermal switch. Its generally in the field iron and so doesn't respond
quick enough for high power/ rapid overheating events (motor will be
damaged before it the thermal switch closes.) For slow overheats from
running the motor at some amp level over its continuous rating (say the
30 minute amp rating) it should respond in time. I like to connect them
to the oil pressure light. Most of the EV parts suppliers have some
sort of motor temp option that is better than what most stock EV motors
come with.
HTH,
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's going to be extreemly tight. There should bet a torque setting for
the bolts on the coupler.
> Newbie here
>
> Should the coupler from the motor shaft to the flywheel be tight or
> have some movement ?
>
>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> At what temperature is the motor running too hot ?
Depends on the motor.
> Are temperature gauges being used ?? Temp. cutoff ?
Generally not.
> Where/how are they being mounted ??
Depends on the motor. The few folks that are monitoring temperature on
D/C motors generally mount a thermo couple in one of the brushes.
I think some of the A/C motors montior coolant temperature.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think you'll be able to convert the gasoline heater to burn oil,
at least not without so much modification that it would probably be easier
to start from scratch.
You might be able to swap to a deisel heater and make you're own
biodeisel. For just running a heater you probably wouldn't have to worry
so much about the quality of the biodeisel.
Another possibility, maybe make something like a kerosene heater that uses
a burning wick (think oil burning lamp on a large scale).
> I own an Electravan that has a gasoline heater. I have seen conversions
> for
> house heaters from natural gas/oil to vegetable oil. Has anyone converted
> any of the gasoline heaters so they will work on vegetable oil?
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> 415-821-3519
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
When I started writing this, I planned to suggest that EVers should boycott
the TdS. Further in, I'm more sad than angry, so I guess I won't go that
far. And perhaps I've just missed mention of road EVs in the publicity
materials.
I would love to be corrected - shown where the publicity extends open arms
to road EVs like the old days. I just don't see it. It seems to me that
TdS has publicly turned its back on EVs, and I'm deeply disappointed. EVs
were there for you when you were just getting started. They are more
essential than ever now - and, with battery developments of the last few
years, closer to broad public acceptability than ever before. Why now do
they deserve the cold shoulder?
They don't. The reason I think is simpler.
Sadly, TdS participants are only sponsored if build hybrids.
EVs are [sort of] welcomed but seen as odd balls - if there
are no applications coming from pure EVs to participate -
so organizers may feel that EVs are the ones ignoring TdS,
not that TdS is failing to invite. Why invite if no one
is coming (e.g. less and less applicants each year)?
And, it will be less and less since no sponsor wants to
dump money into pure EV and there are very few built
on entirely own budgets to stay in the same rank as
hybrids backed up by corp. wallets.
That said, nothing prevents pure EV enthusiasts to organize
own tour in old style (no fossil fuel allowed, period) if
they indeed feel unwelcomed, but EVs aren't really at that
point. Besides granted it's too complicated and big task.
Victor
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I got my vacuum brake pump, but it needs the ford
power connector.
The dealer told me to go the junk yard because it's
part of the wiring harness.
He said it's from a F250 truck.
I was wondering there's a source online?
It's got two recessed pins. I remember somewhere you
could get a very small connector that would go over
each pin...but I can't recall where?
Thanks
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--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
>Basicly none at all.
><snip>
>Jesse made a batter support rack and made sure it was not plumb or squre...
>because he wanted it to look a bit strange. His total time on the build
>was abnout 5 minutes a day, and maybe 1 hour mid week.
>
>So...Jesse didn't do much... except hassle us when we most didn't need it.
>
>
Isn't that what he's supposed to do, give the builders a hard time that
is...
Have you got ahold of any of those Milwaukee batteries to play with yet
Rich?
I'm not sure if it would entice or discourage you from showing up at the
next
SEVA meeting, but I'm gonna bring my latest 2.2lb. Li-ion scooter battery...
L8r
Ryan
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At 03:44 AM 2/10/2006, you wrote:
I don't think you'll be able to convert the gasoline heater to burn oil,
at least not without so much modification that it would probably be easier
to start from scratch.
You might be able to swap to a deisel heater and make you're own
biodeisel. For just running a heater you probably wouldn't have to worry
so much about the quality of the biodeisel.
Another possibility, maybe make something like a kerosene heater that uses
a burning wick (think oil burning lamp on a large scale).
And just to avoid a common misunderstanding.
Biodiesel is not vegetable oil, it is commonly made from vegetable oil and
the process involves more then just filtering.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm curious; is anyone listening to the "This New Car" programs I've been
advertising?
--
Mike Bianchi
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--- Begin Message ---
At 06:28 PM 2/9/2006, you wrote:
My camper van has a propane furnace by Suburban Propane in it, it's a
proper heat exchanger so the combustion air never mixes with the cabin
air. Makes a lot of heat. Physically, it's a bit large though for
fitting in a sedan.
If you could only make one that runs on charcoal briquets... that would be
a laugh.
Pretty tough to start/stop and generally handle safely, though.
Danny
It could be done. Grand pop had a charcoal burning stock tank heater,
basically a bucket inside a larger bucket that was floated in the water
tank. He would also put a bucket of burning charcoal in the little pump
house to keep the water liquid.
I think but am not positive that there were charcoal burning heaters for
keeping engines warm just like the electric or propane tank heaters in use
today.
Something like that could be used to heat the cabin of the vehicle, but not
many would find it fun. You would definitely want some kind of catalytic
secondary burner to get the most out of the CO.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
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I should add that one doesn't just stick another fuse in and power it up . I
first powered up the house 15v supply , all checked out ok , then slowly
with vearack ( vearable transformer miss spelled ) powered the power stage ,
while charger was hooked to one battery.
----- Original Message ----- >
In the heat of battle you really want everything neat simple and takes the
least amount of thinking. If you don't something's gonna get blown up.
From what I hear Steve got lucky and just opened the $25 Fuse, that I was
supposed to ship him...Opps!
Madman
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In my 11.5 inch GE motor, the thermo couple is place in the windings of the
field in the front place over the top of the commentator. The other one is
place at the rear also place on top over the rotor.
Both thermo couplers are wire in series. The temperature range of these
thermo couplers are 140 degrees F OFF and 120 degrees ON which is a 20
degree differential.
This temperature sense circuit operates a 12 volt plug in class relay that
turns on the 12 volt control circuit of a controller which I have now have
with the Zilla.
A green LED comes on showing the temperature is normal. I also install a
Stewart Warner engine temperature sender which just bolts down to aluminum
housing at the rear exhaust screens of the Warp 9. This goes to a Stewart
Warner temperature gage that reads from 0 to 600 degrees F.
There is a bypass switch on the console, where I can by pass the thermo
coupler circuit in case of a emergency. I never had to used that in 30
years of running the GE motor. The maximum temperature I ever saw was about
100 degrees which was the same ambient temperature of the air which is
brought in by a large 6 inch filter blower fan.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 2:28 AM
Subject: Re: Motor Temperature
> > At what temperature is the motor running too hot ?
>
> Depends on the motor.
>
> > Are temperature gauges being used ?? Temp. cutoff ?
>
> Generally not.
>
> > Where/how are they being mounted ??
>
> Depends on the motor. The few folks that are monitoring temperature on
> D/C motors generally mount a thermo couple in one of the brushes.
> I think some of the A/C motors montior coolant temperature.
>
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
> legalistic signature is void.
>
>
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I've tried. Every time I have tried to download an episode I get about
5-10 megs of it and then the download grinds to a halt. Have yet to get
one to listen to.
James
On Fri, 2006-02-10 at 08:10 -0500, M Bianchi wrote:
> I'm curious; is anyone listening to the "This New Car" programs I've been
> advertising?
>
________________________________________________________________________
James F. Jarrett
Information
Systems Associate
AP Java
Programming
Instructor
Charlotte Country
Day School
1440 Carmel Road
Charlotte, NC
28226
(704)943-4562
Main's Law:
For every action
there is an equal
and opposite
government
program.
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes, in the UK.
___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo!
Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
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Yes I did , good stuff , didn't get through all , can you post the list
again .
----- Original Message -----
From: "M Bianchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 8:10 AM
Subject: "This New Car" -- Anyone listening?
I'm curious; is anyone listening to the "This New Car" programs I've been
advertising?
--
Mike Bianchi
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My factory S-10 ev has a diesel heater for passenger comfort... and it
is the least enjoyable feature of the truck. It too has those smoky
phases and driving around the city when that is happening is down right
embarrassing as people see/smell the smoke billowing from under the
truck. And of course the smell gets inside so I smell it too... kinda
like being stuck behind a big ol' bus, which defeats the "clean" feel of
an electric. Extending the range is good, but... I'd prefer to use the
batteries up and prevent the stink.
Michael A. Radtke wrote:
However, please understand that the diesel versions of these heaters are
smoky and smelly at startup and shutdown. With diesel, that means a
smell like you'd expect and soon learn to hate. The biodiesel does not
smell like french fries as folks have said, but more like smoking,
overheated vegetable oil. Even if only at start up and shut down,
neither of these smells is desirable.
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
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--- Begin Message ---
http://www.a123systems.com/html/technology.html
The A123Systems cells have power, safety, and life
attributes that would be terrific - click on the
buttons on the above page. Seems like these batteries
could "take a licking and keep on ticking?"
I think dump charging with the cells would be doable
for some applications, but my big idea isn't really
very practical. Big ifs, but if the Tour de Sol still
needed to charge a dozen or two ev's every day, it'd
be a hoot if it didn't take all night. Still only
doable if competitors could take advantage of very
quick recharging, and if the system were loaned for
the event.
How about using a Capstone microturbine to charge a
large A123Systems battery bank, then rapid charge
competitors from that? I don't think such a system
would be easy or cheap to implement, and there doesn't
currently seem to be a need for quick charging on at
the Tour de Sol.
AeroVironment's PosiCharge system gives an idea of
what might have been done for ev's, at least from the
mains. The PosiCharge system has been very favorably
received by industry, for tow & lift vehicles.
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=953
http://www.industryweek.com/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=10407&SectionID=34
http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?page=blogentry&authorid=46&blogid=97
-brian
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes, very good. Although, I am getting tired of that one guy's English
language metaphore ;)
-Mike
On 2/10/06, M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm curious; is anyone listening to the "This New Car" programs I've been
> advertising?
>
> --
> Mike Bianchi
>
>
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At 01:20 AM 2/10/2006, you wrote:
It's going to be extreemly tight. There should bet a torque setting for
the bolts on the coupler.
> Newbie here
>
> Should the coupler from the motor shaft to the flywheel be tight or
> have some movement ?
The coupler should be tight on the shaft to eliminate the flywheel
moving in and out along the motor shaft, and moving radially when the
motor starts and stops. Any looseness will damage the motor shaft
and the hub in the keyway area where the motion causes what we call a
"fence post" failure.
On our taperlock hubs, the small allen cap screws are ONLY used to
pull the hub over the bushing and set the taperlock. The do not hold
the pressure once it is set. Hypothetically, you could remove these
completely and the taperlock alone would hold the bushing on. (But
DON'T do this.) These small bolts should only be tightened "hand
tight" - as tight as you can get with one hand alone on a short
ratchet, not getting your whole arm into it. I don't give a torque
spec because it would be in inch/lbs., and nobody has an inch/lb.
torque wrench, including me.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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