EV Digest 5177
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: C?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) ISOTOPsRe: EV digest 5169
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Paralleling Li-ion
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Controlling ceramic heaters, was UHMW in heater core
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Lithiums in Parallel
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: The little hybrid car that could -- TdS car at Philadelphia Auto Show
by Vivek Gani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Electric truck
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) high current light battery, was Re: Busted in Blue Meanie!
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Non-electric hybrids
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: No demand?
by lee parrish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Chevy Silverado Hybrid Wanted in Los Angeles Area !
by "Dr. Andy Mars" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Database
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Non-electric hybrids
by "Hacker Joel-QA6240" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Electric truck
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: looking for VW bug kit
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) was Jesse James/ now fuse's
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) TOUR DE SOL RULES POSTED! EARLY REGISTRATION EXTENDED
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: looking for VW bug kit
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: DC/DC use with Xantrex Link 10 Battery Monitor. Why??
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Database
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: high current light battery, was Re: Busted in Blue Meanie!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) critical mass-battery weight vrs amp hour ratings
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: looking for VW bug kit
by "Hacker Joel-QA6240" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Hybrid Technologies, in a joint venture with Mullen Motor Company, will
produce an electric version of the Mullen GT carbon fiber super car.
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: was Jesse James/ now fuse's
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Jesse James & Monster Garage Go Lithium!!!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
Victor,
I am afraid you are confusing things.
Don't be afraid, I'm not.
The *capacity* C is MEASURED at the C/20 discharge rate,
in other words: if you discharge a battery with a current
1/20 of its rated capacity then it's able to hold that
current for 20 hours long.
Example: 100Ah battery can deliver 5A for 20 Hours.
Close, but not exactly. The battery won't be able to "hold"
the current at 1/20 of its rated capacity (unless the load
is regulated), the current will decline as terminal voltage
drop. What they say is at that rate (if you manage to sustain it)
the battery will deliver 100Ah overall.
Now the charging/discharging *current* is specified with reference
to the previous defined capacity C over a 1-hour period of time.
Really? News to me. Where did you get this idea? Any references?
You see this on slow chargers (continuous/non-shut-off Nicad)
that they will put 1/10 C in the batteries and charge time is
typical 14-16 hours.
The rate has nothing to do with amount of hours needed.
It's all matter of capacity. 1C rate may also require
24 hrs to charge if a battery is huge.
If you have a 100Ah battery (capacity measured at C/20) and you are
charging it at "C" then you are not putting 5A in it for 20+ hours,
but instead you are trying to charge it in 1 hour using 100A.
Yes, I know 1C rate for 100Ah battery is 100 amps. Kind of obvious.
So, the 100C is extremely impressive, because this means that you
are charging a battery in 36 seconds (plus some time for the losses)
This means that a 2.3Ah call is being charged with 230A!
Yes, exactly, 2.3Ah battery in 36 seconds with 230A current. So?
(aside that very few batteries can handle that rate without
rising temp and other damage), mathematically you're correct.
As I have written before, it is an impractical amount of energy
if you want to recharge an 80Ah pack at 100C at home, as you need a
whopping 8,000A into the pack, but if you have a dedicated dump-pack
or local generator (central charging station), it may be possible.
For floodeds it would give a whole new meaning to the term 'gas'-station.
Be careful with terminology - you did not mean impractical amount
of energy. You meant impractical rate of charge (current) to put
in all that amount of energy (Wh) in short time.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Regards,
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FWIW, my electric boat controller used 2 FB180SA10 MOSFETS, pretty
similar to that ST part. I forgot if that is an IXYS or an IRF part.
Some diodes, too. I loved it and I did in fact bus bar them together
and screwed thru the PCB, thru the bus bar and to the ISOTOP (also
SOT-227 or SOT-227B are common listings). It worked really well and
took all sorts of abuse. I have loads of ST ISOTOPS for the next
controller. 100V and 200V parts.
It is my favorite package simply for ease of use.
Any replies should cc me directly as I don't often read the list
anymore. I am too busy building stuff to read much.
Seth
On Feb 13, 2006, at 10:15 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
EV Digest 5169
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: AWD?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Jeep Kit Car EV (was What an EV filled day!)
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Motors and Drives conference in Miami, FL
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) ISOTOP power components
by "Steve Arlint" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: ISOTOP power components
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Breaking News - Berube to Auction Current Eliminator
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: ISOTOP power components
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: What an EV filled day!
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Breaking News - Berube to Auction Current Eliminator
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: Jeep Kit Car EV (was What an EV filled day!)
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: ISOTOP power components
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: ISOTOP power components
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Breaking News - Berube to Auction Current Eliminator
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Breaking News - Berube to Auction Current Eliminator
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: AWD?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: ISOTOP power components
by "Steve Arlint" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: What an EV filled day!
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: What an EV filled day!
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Anyone else been spammmed RE: LiPo? New co. in China?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Fwd: re: UHMW in heater core
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Anyone else been spammmed RE: LiPo? New co. in China?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Busted in Blue Meanie!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<EV__digest_5169>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> If you had an internal mosfet in each cell that is internally
> switched on. (IS there another PTC like component that has very
> low on-resistance?)
A MOSFET is a poor choice; it requires a significant gate voltage to
turn fully on, and the 3.6v from the lithium cell isn't really enough.
My first thought would be to design a special bimetal disk switch. At
low temperatures and currents, the disk "clicks" to the "on" side,
making contact between the cell and the external terminal to complete
the circuit.
If the temperature rises above the trip point, the bimetal disk "clicks"
to the "off" position; this breaks the contact between the cell and
external terminal. The cell becomes an open circuit as far as the rest
of the pack is concerned.
The load current also flows through this bimetal disk; so if you draw
too much load current for too long, it also acts as a circuit breaker
and trips "off".
When the disk cools down, it automatically resets to the "on" state.
Since this device is a physical switch contact, its on resistance can be
extremely low.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
> This is nichrome wire, right? What temps does a simple room/personal
> heater normally run it up to?
No; he's talking about a *ceramic* heating element; they have a drastic
change in resistance versus temperature (over a 20:1 change in
resistance over the temperature range in question).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I'm not mistaken it's illegal (in the US) to manufacture 18650 cells
without
internal fuse under positive cap. Some manufacturers may not
comply or ignore, but they are suppose to do include the fuse.
Victor
Myles Twete wrote:
Clearly ACP wasn't too concerned about paralleling a mass of Lithium
batteries without fuses since each of their modules was configured as a
2S*(68P) config.
Maybe they've since changed this?
-Myles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I'll toss the idea out on the list
anyways. I've been pondering (for a few months now) the idea of converting a
VW Mk. 4 Golf TDI into a Hybrid, where I would use an electric motor to
drive rear axle, while keeping the TDI engine in the front. What I am hoping
is that I can take a rear axle from a VW GTI R32, instead of going through
the process of getting someone to machine one.
The only problem I see is a possible problem with space, since the Golf is
already a small car, and I would not be creating extra space in the front
for batteries due to keeping the TDI engine. Any ideas/criticism? I really
think it could make a good AWD Hybrid simliar to K1-Attack that West Philly
did.
Oh yeah, the results from the car from West Philly at Tour De Soul '05 can
be found at:
http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour/05pressinfo.html
http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour/Tour%20de%20Sol-RESULTS%20stats%20summary.pdf
-Vivek G. ("first post!")
On 2/14/06, Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The car seems to run ok in the video at
> http://evteam.gambitdesign.com/albums/attack_build/car_001.wmv
>
> The all-wheel-drive hybrid-drive kitcar is not bad -actually very good.
> It has a turbodiesel rear axle, which gets 50mpg and runs on soybean oil,
> and there are electric motors for the front axle. It appears to run ok.
>
> Steve Love -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 2:13 PM
> Subject: Re: The little hybrid car that could -- TdS car at Philadelphia
> Auto Show
>
>
> > On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:58:41 -0500, "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >On 14 Feb 2006 at 13:29, Neon John wrote:
> > >
> > >> Wow, what an utterly BS article. Should be named "The little hybrid
> > >> that hasn't yet run". it's crap articles like this that go so far in
> > >> dissipating credibility.
> > >
> > >Where does it say that it hasn't yet run? Did I miss something
> here? Or is
> > >this perhaps a personal reaction to something else in the article?
> >
> > It's not in the article but in the flash presentation that is linked
> > from the article.
> >
> > John
> > ---
> > John De Armond
> > See my website for my current email address
> > http://www.johngsbbq.com
> > Cleveland, Occupied TN
> > A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
> Emerson
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/adv_tech/300_hybrids/fact_sheets.html
Try the above link for gm's report on their hybrid of the tahoe chevy suv
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "J.J. Hayden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 4:53 PM
Subject: Electric truck
EVers
I have been reviewing the EV list posts and reading the material on the
web about electric powered â?olightâ? trucks and want some suggestions on
the feasibility of a two electric motor (1 per rear wheel),
diesel-electric-battery system. Something along the lines of the Allison
system now in field tests in a few metropolitan bus systems. Specifically
the intended application is in a tow vehicle for a travel trailer.
Any suggestions or web links would be appreciated.
Thanks
J.J. Hayden
http://home.earthlink.net/~jjhayden
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.7/259 - Release Date: 2/13/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Consider the EP Horizon 12V battery:
18.1 pounds
rated as Cranking power 1250+ Amps for 5 seconds at 80 deg. F to 6V (What
can it do if you are not afraid to push it?)
25 A-Hr at the 3Hr. rate
Claimed less than 1 mOhm resistance
A light-weight pack of these should be good for some low ETs.......
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: Busted in Blue Meanie!
I stand corrected then. However, 1100 amps out of a 24 pound
Hawker is still very impressive. What voltage do they sag
to, at say, 1,000 amps?
Rich Rudman wrote:
The Aero battery that Plasma Boy is using is good for
only 1100 amps, and at that he has thermally Damaged
them.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A data point on hydraulic storage.
This type of storage is very established. On the low end is just about
every water system on a well.
We have 4 machines that use them, when the machine is working right it
pulls about 100amps for 5-6 seconds to pump hyd oil from the tank into
the piston chamber and compresses the nitrogen into it's tank, it then
runs about 30-40sec off of the pressure in the tank. and idles at 20 or
so amps. Like an air compressor it comes on and off. This works well
in this application because we have to have this big of a motor anyway
as the hydraulic extruder motor is direct off of the pump during a
different part of the cycle.
We have 2 types
type 1 is a piston with nitrogen on one side and hyd oil on the other
type 2 is a oil into a chamber against a bladder
Since hydraulic fluid is not compressible, using it for power makes
smooth usable power, I think direct air would surge and make for a
sparatic drive system as it expands and contracts in the lines and
through valves. You can buy these type of accumulators at grainger.
Using hydraulics allows the motor to be more compact than if it was air.
but....it is, in general, heavy. Fed-ex was looking into this at one
time to recoup some of that stop-start energy.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I too was interested in a new Chevy Silverado Hybrid
truck, and inquired to the local dealers. After a
week i finally got a call back and was informed that
none were being shipped to ANY dealers in Hawaii. He
told me that most were being sent to California, and
if I wanted one, I would have to buy it from a Cali
dealer, and pay both CA and HI sales tax! OUCH!
Sounds like they figure there is no demand here in
Hawaii, but here I am...
Still Guzzlin',
Lee Parrish
From:
"Robert Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
[email protected]
Subject:
Re:No demand?
Date:
Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:07:45 -0600
Wanted to see and try a Ford Escape Hybrid this last
weekend. Local
FORD
dealer said He will neither stock nor sell the Hybrid.
Tech training
too
expensive for the expected sales.
This is not a small dealer. Largest within 100 miles.
So which comes first, the demand or the availability?
Will not buy if
no
warranty service, but no techs if don't buy.
Wonder how general this attitude will be?
Robert Wilson
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As a follow-up to Lee's post . . .
_________________________
I know someone here in California who has tried to purchase one of those
Silverado Hybrids, but got the same lame "no demand" reply from the dealers
here -
If anyone knows a dealer in the Los Angeles / San Fernando Valley area that
is willing/able to get a Silverado Hybrid, please do let me know, and I
would be pleased to pass that info on -
Thanks -
Until next INTERNEcTion -
Take care (and spread it around) -
Peace,
Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: "lee parrish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: No demand?
> I too was interested in a new Chevy Silverado Hybrid
> truck, and inquired to the local dealers. After a
> week i finally got a call back and was informed that
> none were being shipped to ANY dealers in Hawaii. He
> told me that most were being sent to California, and
> if I wanted one, I would have to buy it from a Cali
> dealer, and pay both CA and HI sales tax! OUCH!
>
> Sounds like they figure there is no demand here in
> Hawaii, but here I am...
>
> Still Guzzlin',
>
> Lee Parrish
>
>
>
> From:
> "Robert Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> To:
> [email protected]
>
> Subject:
> Re:No demand?
>
> Date:
> Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:07:45 -0600
>
> Wanted to see and try a Ford Escape Hybrid this last
> weekend. Local
> FORD
> dealer said He will neither stock nor sell the Hybrid.
> Tech training
> too
> expensive for the expected sales.
> This is not a small dealer. Largest within 100 miles.
> So which comes first, the demand or the availability?
> Will not buy if
> no
> warranty service, but no techs if don't buy.
> Wonder how general this attitude will be?
> Robert Wilson
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm interested, whats the format of the data?
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Seth Rothenberg
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 3:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Database
Would anyone like to help me review the data from the
harvesting of the EV album?
I think I extracted what's important, and there is only
a bit more refining to do to get a load file ready.
Thanks
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So...do you think Ford is turning the engine off, or
Just letting it idle for the length of time that it is
Not compressing the nitrogen gas?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:06 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: Non-electric hybrids
A data point on hydraulic storage.
This type of storage is very established. On the low end is just about
every water system on a well.
We have 4 machines that use them, when the machine is working right it
pulls about 100amps for 5-6 seconds to pump hyd oil from the tank into
the piston chamber and compresses the nitrogen into it's tank, it then
runs about 30-40sec off of the pressure in the tank. and idles at 20 or
so amps. Like an air compressor it comes on and off. This works well
in this application because we have to have this big of a motor anyway
as the hydraulic extruder motor is direct off of the pump during a
different part of the cycle.
We have 2 types
type 1 is a piston with nitrogen on one side and hyd oil on the other
type 2 is a oil into a chamber against a bladder
Since hydraulic fluid is not compressible, using it for power makes
smooth usable power, I think direct air would surge and make for a
sparatic drive system as it expands and contracts in the lines and
through valves. You can buy these type of accumulators at grainger.
Using hydraulics allows the motor to be more compact than if it was air.
but....it is, in general, heavy. Fed-ex was looking into this at one
time to recoup some of that stop-start energy.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Unless you have VERY deep pockets, I'm not sure how usefull this would be.
The problem (in my mind) is that it takes a tremendous amount of power to
pull a travel trailer up a hill (say 6% incline) at a reasonable speed.
Hybrids normally gain their advantage by using an undersized ICE and
supplementing it with electrical power. Let's say we undersize the ICE by
100 hp and expect the electric motor to supply that 100 hp as needed (say
climbing a mountain pass).
You'll need about one ton of lead-acid batteries to provide you with 10
minutes worth of 100 electric hp.
Li-Ions/Li-Poly would be MUCH lighter, but 10 minutes worth will run you
$20,000-$30,000.
FWIW though the Li-Ions/Li-Poly weigh less than Lead-Acid, they take up
almost the same amount of physical space. Either way they take up a LOT
of space.
And of course there is also the weight/space taken up by the motors,
controllers, wiring, battery racks, etc.
Undersizing the ICE by only 50hp would change things, but how much fuel do
you think that will save? Besides 50 hp is right in their were convention
hop up tricks will give you enough extra power (while mainting the fuel
economy) that you wouldn't need to add the electric components.
A mild hybrid makes a bit more sense. some kind of bolt on kit for th
emotor that allows it to shut off at stop lights and instant start again
when the light turns green. Of course that brings it's own set of
problems.
> EVers
>
> I have been reviewing the EV list posts and reading the material on the
> web about electric powered âlightâ trucks and want some suggestions on
> the feasibility of a two electric motor (1 per rear wheel),
> diesel-electric-battery system. Something along the lines of the Allison
> system now in field tests in a few metropolitan bus systems. Specifically
> the intended application is in a tow vehicle for a travel trailer.
>
> Any suggestions or web links would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> J.J. Hayden
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~jjhayden
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "charles w jarvis III"
Hey folks. Long time lurker, "coming out" (of lurk that is) just long
enough to look around for anyone with spare EV parts or kits for a 74 VW
bug. I already have a sep-ex controller, (GE 72v 350amp) so I'm in need of
a sep-ex motor, adapter plate and coupler.
Before the flood of advice comes in.........YES, I know this will make for
a pitiful performer.
Hi Sir Charles
as long as you know that then there's no problem , you are trying to build
your ev on your budget , that's ok , the problem comes when you try to do
it with stuff that just won't work , then you west your time and money ,
ending with nothing . But as your on the list , this won't happen :-) .
But hey....Im broke and on a shoestring budget! and It's mostly for just
around town anyway. Mostly back roads and 45 mph tops! (most in town is 35).
if anyone does have any of these needed parts. Please contact me off list as
I am currently two full months behind on reading here! ugh.
One reason that people take the time to write so much is that they believe
there are many Lurkers doing the same thing and the advice is for many , so
maybe people could post and send directly to you , which I am doing . As
there are probable more people doing what your doing that there are building
hi performance EV's , your post about how you pull this off may be helpful
to a lot of Low budget EV'ers.
.My first conversion was my "little red rider" mower I used a 96 volt
Ametek motor and a BUNCH of 12ah scooter batteries. Only had a simple on-off
for speed control and the 3speed. Starting in 2nd or 3rd would pull the
front wheels off the ground! Lots of fun, but no match for the "HMGT"!
looking for a good 24/36 volt motor for it and a pwm controller big enough
to let me continue to pull trailers around the yard with it.
This would be a good place to try out a contactor controller with some heavy
coils for resistors to get the hang of this type of controller , but your
car motor will take another type , how big is this sep ex motor.
anyway, running on empty here as its 3am now. going back into "lurk" mode
again. Thanks for all the great info here. The EVDL has kept me in "dream
mode" for the last two years. hoping to get out of "dream mode" and into
real world EV'ing!
Looks like your 2 big steps are a controller for the sep-ex motor and a
adapter plate
With a low power system / home made controller the clutch becomes more
important, I sell a video that shows how to make a adapter plate which if
you video your project and let me us the footage you could have for free.
www.grassrootaev.com
Steve Clunn
Thanks for listening to me ramble. I tend to do that when tired. :-)
Sir Charles
___
/ \
(o\!/o)
[] []
(the above art looks right in my out going email here...hope it turns out
ok on the list. it's suposed to be the front of a VW Beetle)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Their I changed the thread line to what we are talking about :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart"
I put a 600 amp fuse in my drag race truck for testing , ( has a 2k zilla )
and it still hasn't blown , and done a fair about of testing :-) . I would
say a fuse is a good thing to have but don't count on it blowing if
something goes wrong. I don't think a blown full on Curtis with golf cart
batts will blow even a 300 amp fuse with low batteries .
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Why in the world anyone would fuse the cells for half of the
possible current drawn from them?
You *normally* size fuses for less than the peak current. Otherwise, the
fuse will never blow, even if there is an overload.
You normally size a fuse to hold with the *average* current you will be
using. Then, you pick the speed of the fuse to handle the brief peaks.
For instance, you'd use a slow-blow fuse for a motor, because it draws a
high starting current. You use a fast-blow fuse for an electronic
controller, because it should electronically limit the peak current (and
if it doesn't, something is wrong!)
For example, an EV with a Curtis 1221 controller could draw 400 amps
peak; but the battery fuse is 300 amps. That's because under normal
conditions, the controller won't draw its peak 400 amps for more than a
fraction of a second. The fuse will hold in for these brief peaks. But
if the controller fails, it *can* draw a sustained current of well over
400 amps. At a 2:1 overload, that 300 amp fast-blow fuse will blow in
about 1 second. In this case, the purpose of the fuse is to limit the
damage to the controller, (and perhaps keep you from driving through
your garage door).
The consideration with the battery fuses in this discussion were that
you need to size the fuse to protect the *battery* from damage. So, you
want the fuse to blow *before* the battery fails, because a battery
failure with lithiums can be catastrophic.
But folks like the Monster Garage EVers are deliberately trying to get
as much current as possible for drag racing. This can put them outside
of the normal range of sanity. They are willing to take an "acceptable
risk" to win a race. (Jesse might have actually liked it better if the
lithium packs *did* explode or catch fire -- on camera, of course).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TOUR DE SOL RULES POSTED!
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If you have questions please email us at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or call
413.774.6051
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
charles w jarvis III wrote:
> Hey folks. Long time lurker, "coming out" (of lurk that is) just long
> enough to look around for anyone with spare EV parts or kits for a 74
> VW bug. I already have a sep-ex controller, (GE 72v 350amp) so I'm in
> need of a sep-ex motor, adapter plate and coupler.
Welcome to the EV list, Charles. You've come to the right place. I don't
have the parts, but someone probably does or can lead you to them. If
all else fails, a surplus aircraft generator can serve.
> YES, I know this will make for a pitiful performer.
Not that bad. A 72v 350amp controller in a bug with a transmission will
do reasonably well. That's about 25kw, which will be similar in
performance to the old 40hp beetle.
> My next two "conversions" were abandoned power wheel trucks for the kids.
> (two of em, 6 and 8) picked both up along side the steet and fixed with minor
> work. mostly just use them 12ah scooter batts to get em going again. cheap
> fun for the kids. was great to see their first EV Grins! even put 12volt
> smart chargers inside the trucks so all the kids got to do is back up to an
> outlet and plug in!
Powerwheels are a great way to start that EV grin early! You can find
them at garage sales almost free. The batteries are normally shot,
destroyed by the supplied charger. Replace the battery, throw the
charger away and replace it with a proper one for a sealed battery and
you're usually in business!
> ___
> / \
> (o\!/o)
> [] []
>
> (the above art looks right in my out going email here... hope it turns
> out ok on the list. it's supposed to be the front of a VW Beetle)
The trick is to set your email program for a "fixed width font" like
Courier. Then it looks like this
___
/___\
(o\!/o)
[] []
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Does anyone have an installation guide for this Emeter? I suspect the
DC/DC is bad and need to replace it but I'd like to know why it
failed. Lawrence Rhodes........
A quick safe test is to use a small (independant from the car's 12v
system) battery to power the emeter. It has moderate power
requirements: a 9v battery would probably power the emeter long enough
to verify it works.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Me too.
-Mike
On 2/15/06, Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm interested, whats the format of the data?
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Seth Rothenberg
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 3:00 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Database
>
>
>
> Would anyone like to help me review the data from the
> harvesting of the EV album?
>
> I think I extracted what's important, and there is only
> a bit more refining to do to get a load file ready.
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Hartley wrote:
> Consider the EP Horizon 12V battery:
> A light-weight pack of these should be good for some low ETs...
John Westlund wrote:
> 1100 amps out of a 24 pound Hawker is still very impressive.
Rich Rudman wrote:
> The Aero battery that Plasma Boy is using is good for only 1100 amps,
If John is looking for new batteries for the Blue Meany, I'd suggest
staying with the Optimas. They fit, and have done a good job for him.
This is a daily driver, not a special-purpose drag car.
The White Zombie is another matter. Here I can see where it makes sense
to experiment with other batteries.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there ever a time that a "critical mass" is reached and the vehicle is to
heavy for the battery pack with the current amp hour rating?
What i am getting at is i chose a 40 ah hawker, @ 38 lbs each. The next battery
down is 26 ah @ 26 lbs. Would a change to the lighter battery be productive?
Does one always use the biggest battery that one can fit?
Just wondering before I spend some money!
---------------------------------
What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
Your link www.grassrootaev.com does not work for some reason...
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of STEVE CLUNN
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:54 AM
To: [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: looking for VW bug kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "charles w jarvis III"
> Hey folks. Long time lurker, "coming out" (of lurk that is) just long
> enough to look around for anyone with spare EV parts or kits for a 74
> VW bug. I already have a sep-ex controller, (GE 72v 350amp) so I'm in
> need of a sep-ex motor, adapter plate and coupler.
>
> Before the flood of advice comes in.........YES, I know this will make
> for a pitiful performer.
Hi Sir Charles
as long as you know that then there's no problem , you are trying to
build your ev on your budget , that's ok , the problem comes when you
try to do it with stuff that just won't work , then you west your time
and money ,
ending with nothing . But as your on the list , this won't happen :-)
.
But hey....Im broke and on a shoestring budget! and It's mostly for
just around town anyway. Mostly back roads and 45 mph tops! (most in
town is 35).
if anyone does have any of these needed parts. Please contact me off
list as I am currently two full months behind on reading here! ugh.
>
One reason that people take the time to write so much is that they
believe there are many Lurkers doing the same thing and the advice is
for many , so maybe people could post and send directly to you , which I
am doing . As there are probable more people doing what your doing that
there are building hi performance EV's , your post about how you pull
this off may be helpful to a lot of Low budget EV'ers.
.My first conversion was my "little red rider" mower I used a 96 volt
Ametek motor and a BUNCH of 12ah scooter batteries. Only had a simple
on-off for speed control and the 3speed. Starting in 2nd or 3rd would
pull the front wheels off the ground! Lots of fun, but no match for the
"HMGT"!
looking for a good 24/36 volt motor for it and a pwm controller big
enough to let me continue to pull trailers around the yard with it.
>
This would be a good place to try out a contactor controller with some
heavy coils for resistors to get the hang of this type of controller ,
but your car motor will take another type , how big is this sep ex
motor.
>
> anyway, running on empty here as its 3am now. going back into "lurk"
mode
> again. Thanks for all the great info here. The EVDL has kept me in
"dream
> mode" for the last two years. hoping to get out of "dream mode" and
into
> real world EV'ing!
>
Looks like your 2 big steps are a controller for the sep-ex motor and a
adapter plate
With a low power system / home made controller the clutch becomes more
important, I sell a video that shows how to make a adapter plate which
if
you video your project and let me us the footage you could have for
free.
www.grassrootaev.com
Steve Clunn
> Thanks for listening to me ramble. I tend to do that when tired. :-)
>
>
> Sir Charles
>
> ___
> / \
> (o\!/o)
> [] []
>
> (the above art looks right in my out going email here...hope it turns
out
> ok on the list. it's suposed to be the front of a VW Beetle)
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/02/mullen_plans_ev.php
Hybrid Technologies, in a joint venture with Mullen Motor Company,
will produce an electric version of the Mullen GT carbon fiber super
car. The GT, that our friends at Jalopnik describe as
"extra-ugly-with-a-side-of-hideous," may not be the belle of the ball,
but she's not slow. The petrol version goes 0-60 in a smidge over 3
seconds with top speed of 180 mph. The electric is supposed to have
similar stats. And if you doubt that an EV can be mean as hell, see
this clip of the Wrightspeed X1 burning a Porsche and Ferrari in the
track. :: Green Car Congress
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> I put a 600 amp fuse in my drag race truck for testing...
> I would say a fuse is a good thing to have but don't count on it
> blowing if something goes wrong. I don't think a blown full on
> Curtis with golf cart batts will blow even a 300 amp fuse with
> low batteries.
It depends on how serious a "thing" you are trying to protect against.
A 600amp fuse with golf cart batteries is a bit too big. The batteries
themselves will limit the current (and fail!) first. A new, warm, fully
charged 6v golf cart battery can top 1000 amps for a few seconds; but
once it is cold, or a few years old, or down to 50% SOC it won't reach
500 amps.
I used a 400 amp fuse in my ComutaVan with its golf cart batteries and
contactor controller. It was not possible to blow it without some fault
condition. I did managed to blow a 300 amp fuse in it by driving home
with a flat tire (I don't carry a spare and the tire was wrecked anyway
:-)
My present EV has a 300 amp fuse. With its Curtis 1231C controller and
12v Concorde AGM batteries, it can hit just over 400 amps for a couple
seconds -- too short a time to blow the fuse.
Sizing the fuse small limits the damage when something goes wrong. It
blows before the controller or wiring is totally destroyed. A huge fuse
won't blow until the wiring is on fire and the controller is a smoking,
unrepairable ruin.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
> While Lee is correct that one would indeed use a fuse rated for less
> than the peak current, I am not following his logic either! ;^>
I guess I was too brief and casual in my descriptions.
When you connect a lot of cells in parallel, you need to fuse each cell
separately. The fuse needs a low enough current rating to prevent fires
or explosions if the cell ever shorts. If the cell can fail
catastrophically from excessive charge or discharge current, then the
fuse also needs to be sized to protect against that.
This fuse may or may not be built into the cells. I would assume it is
NOT there unless you have explicit evidence to the contrary (the
manufacturer's data sheet, or you have physically taken apart a cell to
check for it).
This sets a practical limit on the number of cells you can put in
parallel. Cells will have different internal resistances, and will be at
different states of charge. The current that each one supplies with be
different. Ten cells in parallel supplying 100 amps won't all deliver 10
amp each; some will deliver 8 or 9, others 11 or 12 amps. If the cells
are not hand matched, or are old, or of poor quality, or at different
temperatures, or your wiring to them is not consistent, these
differences can get quite large. You could conceivably have one
supplying 1 amp while another supplies 20 amps. So, your total current
rating for the parallel pack is not just the sum of the individual cell
fuses (ten 10amp fuses = a 100amp pack) -- you might only be able to
draw 20 amps before one of the 10amp fuses blows.
For racing, you'd just hand-match all the cells, and ignore what happens
at the extremes. You might only get a few races out of them before the
differences between cells become too large to use. It's only money.
These problems are what lead me to prefer having relatively few cells in
parallel. Instead, wire them in series strings, and put the series
strings in parallel. Of course, if the string's voltage gets too high
(more than about 30 volts), then you start having problems with the
voltage across a fuse if it blows. You don't want to need 300v fuses in
series with every cell.
So, as these things usually go, it's better to wire the cells into
batteries (series strings of cells) of 6-24v each. These batteries can
have all the necessary voltage and current monitoring circuits.
This is pretty much what the Monster Garage EV did. Expensive and
complicated, but it worked!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
