EV Digest 5179
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Taking it to the list
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Jesse James & Monster Garage Go Lithium!!!
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Taking it to the list
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) OT: Moderated EVDL (was re moderation at EVDL)
by "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: critical mass-battery weight vrs amp hour ratings
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: looking for VW bug kit
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Moderation at the EVDL
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE : critical mass-battery weight vrs amp hour ratings
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Flooded Battery Questions From A Newbie
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: DC/DC use with Xantrex Link 10 Battery Monitor. Why??
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Ot Moderators (was Re: Moderation at the EVDL)
by "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) BIG battery charger anybody?
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: RE : critical mass-battery weight vrs amp hour ratings
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: EV1 BMS and Temp Management
by "Hacker Joel-QA6240" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Mk3 Regs
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: looking for VW bug kit
by "Hacker Joel-QA6240" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Jesse James & Monster Garage Go Lithium!!!
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Busted in Blue Meanie!
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Hybrid Technologies, in a joint venture with Mullen Motor Company,
will produce an electric version of the Mullen GT carbon fiber super car.
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: looking for VW bug kit
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) CAD Software (was RE: EV1 BMS and Temp Management)
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Seems the EVDL is being monitored by the manufacturer some won't use due to
politics. Anyone else disagree with my opinion that a battery with only a 2C
peak curve is no better than a giant 18650 cell? Seems they should be posting
to the list itself instead of a random observer who found there site data
lacking:
<<<<< Dear Sirs,
Hello!
I have browsed your message from "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List".The details as follows,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/message/33676
Yes, but can you imagine a pack of what essentially looks like
gigantic D-cells?! 3.7V/100Ah, 5.7lbs, but otherwise has the specs
of a common 18650 cell.
I think you haven't use our batteryand don't know our battery -
ICR65/400 ,but issued negative opinion on this discussion(see
above).
pls don't issued any negative opinion before you have not use our
battery. ICR65/400 is single cell with big capacity, it is not a D
type cells or other cells to parallel. It is a high power li-ion
battery. And applies to HEV and EV.
If you have any problems with spec. or tech. of battery, I will very
pleased to answer.
Looking forward to your reply.
Yours,
Queenie
Tianjin Lantain Double-Cycle Tech. Co., Ltd
Tel:86-22-23786701
fax:86-22-23786702
www.tjshuanghuan.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is not easy to make a good big cell either. So making a big cell from
many small cells should not be soooo much easier. :)
The difference between cells is getting greater due the different level
of DOD on each paralled cell. It is in respect of their individual
capasities after every cycle.
There is about 20-30% reserve in the cell and each cell has individual
cushions. This gives the false indication that everything is ok during
first cycles. 30, 50, 70, 100.. god knows how many can be achieved
before the problem is noticeable. Then it is already too late.
Cell can provide different amount of cycles. It depends on DOD and how
it has been charged.
Balancing thousands of cells with required accuracy.... huh... not
impossible but certainly a pain in a... through the whole life of the pack.
For racing I would use custom made Li-Fe pack from TS. Electrolyte tuned
for performance. I'm going to do that for my Drag-bike later this spring...
-Jukka
Myles Twete kirjoitti:
Lee offered:
Ten cells in parallel supplying 100 amps won't all deliver 10
amp each...You could conceivably have one
supplying 1 amp while another supplies 20 amps. So, your total current
rating for the parallel pack is not just the sum of the
individual cell
fuses (ten 10amp fuses = a 100amp pack) -- you might only be able to
draw 20 amps before one of the 10amp fuses blows.
But Lee, aren't you discounting the very real effect that with massively
parallel connections between batteries (e.g. the spot-welded grid used on
the ACP 68P2S Lithiums I referred to) it's highly unlikely that you'd see
the kind of current variance you refer to if the batteries are of similar
capacity and age? With massively parallel interconnects, any cell that
begins delivering too much current or for too long begins to see its voltage
drop slightly and its buddy cells will pick up the slack. This effect
shouldn't be ignored. Agreed, if you add extra external fusing for each
battery you reduce this balancing effect, but even with fuses, there will
still be a balancing effect which mitigates the variance between cells. The
more massive the paralleling, the more insignificant the resistance of fuses
become, with the effective resistance between a cell and its collective
brethren approaching the resistance of a single fuse.
With the cylindrical 18650 style cells mentioned, by relying on the internal
battery thermal, overpressure and electrical fusing you wouldn't need
anything more than spot-welded grid connections between batteries. The
advantages here may well outweigh the disadvantages for some applications.
External projectile damage to battery shell leading to unfused short is the
biggest risk. OTOH, perhaps the reliability of the manufacturer's
overcurrent, overpressure and overtemp short circuit protections isn't
enough to depend on..?
Kokam refers to paralleling their LiPo batts, e.g.:
http://www.kokam.com/english/product/charge.html
There's also a tutorial which describes paralleling the Kokam batts:
http://www.aurorra.co.uk/reference/Lipo%20Cells%20-%20Lithium%20Polymer.pdf
No fuses.
Just interconnects.
Good policy? Perhaps not...but by keeping interconnect resistance low,
current sharing between batts should be high.
Add fuses and it still seems to me that the buddies will pull up their
brethren in parallel avoiding wide current variance.
As I see it, there are advantages to massively paralleling the batteries
first, then stacking them in series. Those advantages do have tradeoffs as
mentioned.
But I just don't see that current hogging would be 10:1 or anything close to
that as argued.
Again, I still don't see how 10 1ah Lithium batteries in parallel (for
example) would be more of a risk to internal short than 1 10ah Lithium
battery. A look at a Kokam cell's construction makes it more perplexing why
it would add risk.
Perhaps I just don't get it.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--
Jukka Järvinen
R&D Director
Oy Finnish Electric Vehicle Technologies Ltd
Sepänkatu 3
11710 RIHIMÄKI
FINLAND
VAT ID: FI18534078
jukka.jarvinen(a_t)fevt.com
mobile. +358-440-735705
fax. +358-19-735705
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there any statistics how many people gets these messages emailed and
how many hits per month web based archieves are getting.
This list just might be SO much bigger forum that we even realize.
:) Nice... so many interested minds together fighting the oil-monster..
-Jukka
[EMAIL PROTECTED] kirjoitti:
Seems the EVDL is being monitored by the manufacturer some won't use due to
politics. Anyone else disagree with my opinion that a battery with only a 2C
peak curve is no better than a giant 18650 cell? Seems they should be posting
to the list itself instead of a random observer who found there site data
lacking:
<<<<< Dear Sirs,
Hello!
I have browsed your message from "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List".The details as follows,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ev/message/33676
Yes, but can you imagine a pack of what essentially looks like
gigantic D-cells?! 3.7V/100Ah, 5.7lbs, but otherwise has the specs
of a common 18650 cell.
I think you haven't use our batteryand don't know our battery -
ICR65/400 ,but issued negative opinion on this discussion(see
above).
pls don't issued any negative opinion before you have not use our
battery. ICR65/400 is single cell with big capacity, it is not a D
type cells or other cells to parallel. It is a high power li-ion
battery. And applies to HEV and EV.
If you have any problems with spec. or tech. of battery, I will very
pleased to answer.
Looking forward to your reply.
Yours,
Queenie
Tianjin Lantain Double-Cycle Tech. Co., Ltd
Tel:86-22-23786701
fax:86-22-23786702
www.tjshuanghuan.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>>
--
Jukka Järvinen
R&D Director
Oy Finnish Electric Vehicle Technologies Ltd
Sepänkatu 3
11710 RIHIMÄKI
FINLAND
VAT ID: FI18534078
jukka.jarvinen(a_t)fevt.com
mobile. +358-440-735705
fax. +358-19-735705
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Point 1. this EVDL is a mostly unmoderated forum -this is good.
Point 2. We mostly try to get along -also good.
Point 3. To clarify the subject line -is a good thing, too!
Steve Love -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: Moderation at the EVDL
> > Put your money where your mouth is: Make me a moderator.
>
> Newsflash: this is essentially an unmoderated forum. We do have an
> official moderator, and I know he does good, but he has [little] actual
> control over anything and cannot ban people for being offensive, calling
> for violence on others, etc. I've seen participants berate and insult
> him (and others) without any consequence despite the moderator's desire
> to ban the miscreant.
>
> I think it would be best to drop any false semblence of moderation here
> as there is essentially none anyway. At this point, one either polices
> oneself or one does not. Just my .02
>
> -Ken Trough
> V is for Voltage
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM/YM - ktrough
> FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland wrote -
> Hello Paul,
>
> There is a good gage of battery power, that we have used back in the 60's
> and 70's that it seems that nobody uses as far as I know on this list uses.
> It's the ratio of battery watts per the weight of the battery. If you have
> a battery that has 25 watts per lb, then you will have a good battery
> performer.
>
> Assuming your Hawkers at 12 volts at 40 AH, therefore 12 x 40 = 480 watthr.
> The 480 / 38 lbs = 12.6 wh per lb. Also 12 x 26 = 312 wh.
> 312/26 = 12 wh per lb.
So a Trojan T-125, 6 v at 240 AH = 1,440wh / 67lbs = 21.49 wh/lb at the c20
rate,
but at c1 rate - 6 v at 136 AH = 816 wh / 67 lbs = 12 wh/lb
> For example of my batteries I had a one time which was the best performer I
> ever had, was a 2 volt cell at 300 AH at 30 lbs each. Therefore 2v x 300ah =
> 600wh. 600wh / 30 = 20wh per lb.
>
> I had 2700 lbs of these cells in my EV that could drive the vehicle at a top
> speed of 92 mph and ran a endurance test around a GM track back in Detroit
> for 1056 miles in 24 hours.
Since you ran 1056 miles at top speed of 92, that means you only drove for 11
hrs, so the rest was used charging the batteries? What kind of charger?
> These batteries than ran the car for the next 10 years.
>
> Roland
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try
http://www.grassrootsev.com/
Or
http://www.fsip.biz
Pedroman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: looking for VW bug kit
For VW kits or any other small EV, try Flight Systems. They have a EV
division, that makes ev kits. They also a large stock of used parts and
motors. They provide the EV-1 motor controllers.
There WEB site does not work for some reason, so just type "Flight Systems"
in your search engine.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hacker Joel-QA6240" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:22 AM
Subject: RE: looking for VW bug kit
> Steve,
>
> Your link www.grassrootaev.com does not work for some reason...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of STEVE CLUNN
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:54 AM
> To: [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: looking for VW bug kit
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "charles w jarvis III"
> > Hey folks. Long time lurker, "coming out" (of lurk that is) just
> > long enough to look around for anyone with spare EV parts or kits
> > for a 74 VW bug. I already have a sep-ex controller, (GE 72v 350amp)
> > so I'm in need of a sep-ex motor, adapter plate and coupler.
> >
> > Before the flood of advice comes in.........YES, I know this will
> > make
>
> > for a pitiful performer.
> Hi Sir Charles
> as long as you know that then there's no problem , you are trying to
> build your ev on your budget , that's ok , the problem comes when
> you try to do it with stuff that just won't work , then you west your
> time and money , ending with nothing . But as your on the list , this
> won't happen :-) .
>
>
> But hey....Im broke and on a shoestring budget! and It's mostly for
> just around town anyway. Mostly back roads and 45 mph tops! (most in
> town is 35). if anyone does have any of these needed parts. Please
> contact me off list as I am currently two full months behind on
> reading here! ugh.
> >
> One reason that people take the time to write so much is that they
> believe there are many Lurkers doing the same thing and the advice is
> for many , so maybe people could post and send directly to you , which
> I am doing . As there are probable more people doing what your doing
> that there are building hi performance EV's , your post about how you
> pull this off may be helpful to a lot of Low budget EV'ers.
>
> .My first conversion was my "little red rider" mower I used a 96 volt
> Ametek motor and a BUNCH of 12ah scooter batteries. Only had a simple
> on-off for speed control and the 3speed. Starting in 2nd or 3rd would
> pull the front wheels off the ground! Lots of fun, but no match for
> the "HMGT"! looking for a good 24/36 volt motor for it and a pwm
> controller big enough to let me continue to pull trailers around the
> yard with it.
> >
> This would be a good place to try out a contactor controller with some
> heavy coils for resistors to get the hang of this type of controller
> , but your car motor will take another type , how big is this sep ex
> motor.
>
> >
> > anyway, running on empty here as its 3am now. going back into "lurk"
> mode
> > again. Thanks for all the great info here. The EVDL has kept me in
> "dream
> > mode" for the last two years. hoping to get out of "dream mode" and
> into
> > real world EV'ing!
> >
> Looks like your 2 big steps are a controller for the sep-ex motor and
> a adapter plate With a low power system / home made controller the
> clutch becomes more important, I sell a video that shows how to make a
> adapter plate which if
> you video your project and let me us the footage you could have for
> free.
> www.grassrootaev.com
> Steve Clunn
>
>
>
> > Thanks for listening to me ramble. I tend to do that when tired. :-)
> >
> >
> > Sir Charles
> >
> > ___
> > / \
> > (o\!/o)
> > [] []
> >
> > (the above art looks right in my out going email here...hope it
> > turns
> out
> > ok on the list. it's suposed to be the front of a VW Beetle)
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken Trough writes:
>
> > Put your money where your mouth is: Make me a moderator.
>
> Newsflash: this is essentially an unmoderated forum. I know that we have
> an official moderator, and I know he does his best, but he has NO actual
Newsflash: this is an unmoderated list. There is no moderator. There
are list admins, but no moderator.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hello Paul,
>There is a good gage of battery power, that we have used back in the 60's
>and 70's that it seems that nobody uses as far as I know on this list uses.
>It's the ratio of battery watts per the weight of the battery. If you have
>a battery that has 25 watts per lb, then you will have a good battery
>performer.
>Assuming your Hawkers at 12 volts at 40 AH, therefore 12 x 40 = 480 >watthr.
>The 480 / 38 lbs = 12.6 wh per lb. Also 12 x 26 = 312 wh.
>312/26 = 12 wh per lb.
Yes, they are 12v. So with the same wh per lb, would losing basically 60 lbs of
battery weight make the up the difference for the reduction of ah? My thought
is, the lighter the pack, (with the same battery characteristics) the better
the range. Heavy pack travels X distance. Lighter pack travels further
(although maybe not as far) because the whole vehicle is lighter.
Hmm. reading it it doesn't sound right, sounds like experiment time!
>For example of my batteries I had a one time which was the best performer I
>ever had, was a 2 volt cell at 300 AH at 30 lbs each. Therefore 2v x 300ah =
>600wh. 600wh / 30 = 20wh per lb.
>I had 2700 lbs of these cells in my EV that could drive the vehicle at a top
>speed of 92 mph and ran a endurance test around a GM track back in >Detroit
>for 1056 miles in 24 hours.
>These batteries than ran the car for the next 10 years.
>Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul wiley"
To: "evdl"
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 9:26 AM
Subject: critical mass-battery weight vrs amp hour ratings
> Is there ever a time that a "critical mass" is reached and the vehicle is
> to heavy for the battery pack with the current amp hour rating?
> What i am getting at is i chose a 40 ah hawker, @ 38 lbs each. The next
> battery down is 26 ah @ 26 lbs. Would a change to the lighter battery be
> productive? Does one always use the biggest battery that one can fit?
> Just wondering before I spend some money!
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
>
>
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congrats on your new truck.
What I would do if I were you would be to make an assessment on each
individual battery. First open up each one to see if the plates are
covered with water. If any plates are exposed those batteries could be
done for. But if the water just barely clears the plates you may be
able to save them. Fill the low ones with just enough distilled water
so its about a half inch below the case or cap. You don't want to over
fill them because they could boil over during charging.
Then test each with a voltmeter to see where they are. If they are down
to 4 volts you may be able to bring them back to life. I've done this
with some GE Elec-Traks I've worked on for people.
You can also test the batteries with a battery tester that draws the
water out of each cell and a needle will point to whether the battery
is in the good, fair or bad range. Geez, I can't remember the name of
the thing off hand but I use it when testing the batteries as well.
Once you determine their current state of charge take a 12/6 volt
charger that charges deep cycle batteries, set it to 6 volts-deep cycle
and charge each one up individually. This could take awhile but its
worth it in the long run. Once you get each one up to about 2.5 volts
per cell which would be 7.5 volts or their abouts charge them with the
trucks original charger to get them equalized. Do this for a couple
hours. Turn the charger off and wait about 15 minutes. Take the
voltmeter and test each one to see where they are.
You should check to see what your batteries recommended SOC is per
cell. 2.5 is a guess and that may be wrong.
Now the thing is you may have some bad ones in the bunch. You may be
able to get a few good used ones from the AZ EAA folks. Once you get
them up to snuff drive the truck around a few miles to discharge them.
Then take the voltmeter out and test each battery to see where they
stand. You may need to do some individual charging again on a couple of
them. Then equalize them again. And keep exercising them a bit going a
little bit further each time you drive it.
If the batteries are salvagable you may also consider getting a
desulfator. I'm not sure if they come in 120 volts or not but you may
able to get a 60 volt one and do half the pack at a time. This should
shake off any stuff that hangs on the batteries. I haven't really used
these much so I can't really say if they make any difference or not.
This is what I do to bring back the flooded cells back to life. Its
easy to do on GE Elec-Traks because there are only 6 batteries. But
with this method I had someone bring in a tractor with batteries down
to 4 volts and I've been able to bring them back to life. But if they
read 1, 2 volts or in millivolts they are probably done for.
Chip Gribben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a step up 12v to 24v DC/DC by Wall Industries, Inc. The
XDIS2618-SMT. Would this provide adequate filtering & isolation? Lawrence
Rhodes.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:15 AM
Subject: RE: DC/DC use with Xantrex Link 10 Battery Monitor. Why??
Looks like the DC/DC is bad. That part should never draw more than
340mA at 9-18V, although at 250 mA output, it may be a bit small for the
link 10. If the DC/DC blows the fuse when not connected to the link 10,
there is a short in the DC/DC. Try powering your link 10 from a fused
external 12 battery (put it in a plastic battery box to prevent
connection to chassis ground.
Lynn "in between EV's for about 5 more days" Adams
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 10:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: DC/DC use with Xantrex Link 10 Battery Monitor. Why??
It's a Datel UWR-12/250-012. A very small DC/DC Just a few watts
output but the emeter doesn't need much. Probably would protect the
Emeter. It was a nice clean installation in a black box. Lawrence
Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:23 PM
Subject: RE: DC/DC use with Xantrex Link 10 Battery Monitor. Why??
It could be that your DC/DC is not isolated. The better ones are,
some cheap ones are not.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Mark Farver
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 1:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: DC/DC use with Xantrex Link 10 Battery Monitor. Why??
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I am working on a nicely converted Ford Ranger. It is using a Link
10
Battery monitor with Cruising Equiptment Co on the bottom. In the
manual it shows 9.5 to 40vdc input. It has a 12v source so why is
the
DC/DC needed? Purify & stablize the energy source or keep the watts
down? In any case the DC/DC is blowing the 2 or 3 amp fuse we are
putting in. To me that means the DC/DC is bad. Is it really needed
with this installation?
Lawrence Rhodes
Yes for isolation. The Link 10's negative 12v power lead is connected
to the traction pack negative. If you do not use the DC/DC you are
connecting the frame of the car (12v negative) to the traction pack
negative. Touch the positive traction pack post, or any other
terminal and you'll get shocked.
Mark
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
!DSPAM:43f23a25277931988019335!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Point 1. We mostly try to get along. This is good.
Point 2. This EVDL is a mostly unmoderated forum. This is good.
Point 3. To clarify the subject line -This is a good thing, too!
Some may take newsflashes as harsher than intended.
Some are more political minded than others.
Steve Love -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Merwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: Moderation at the EVDL
> Ken Trough writes:
> > > Put your money where your mouth is: Make me a moderator.
> > Newsflash: this is essentially an unmoderated forum. I know that we have
> > an official moderator, [who] does [good], but he has [little] actual...
> Newsflash: this is an unmoderated list. There is no moderator. There
> are list admins, but no moderator.
> Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have access to a former Telco supply, output is
48V and has 8x 50A power supplies in a 19" rack.
Each supply can be switched between float and equalize
and needs a 240V 20A (max) service, though it should
never draw more than 10A continuous.
There is a panel of 100A breakers for each supply
(they will cut out at 125A and are spec'ed for 65V)
and a digital voltage read-out and some other stuff
and in addition to the equipment rack there is also
a battery-tray rack (without batteries).
Both are about 7' high and can be bolted to the floor
(or put on a dolly if you want to move them around).
I can help move it in the San Jose area, price is
very reasonable - hardly more than scrap metal.
It is a lot of metal...
If nobody is interested I may modify the setup and
have all supplies wired in series for a 400V 50A for
US Electricar or a 200V 100A fast-charger for my next
planned conversion.
(though I will need to upgrade the house service to
pull that kind of power off...)
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
paul wiley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> My thought is, the lighter the pack, (with the same battery
> characteristics) the better the range.
> Heavy pack travels X distance. Lighter pack travels further
> (although maybe not as far) because the whole vehicle is
> lighter.
If only it worked that way! ;^>
For a given battery type, the available energy is directly proportional
to the weight of the pack: more battery weight = more range.
The one possible situation where this may fall apart is if your travels
include lots of stop and go and/or lots of elevation gain. In these
cases weight works against you to a much larger degree than in mostly
steady speed driving. The equations for rolling drag, aero drag, and
the energy consumed overcoming gravity (climbing an incline) are readily
available, so you could do some calculations to get a feel for how steep
of an incline you would need to traverse before adding more battery
weight might shorten your range.
One exception to the weight rule is when you compare different battery
types. For instance, if you compare a flooded lead pack and an AGM lead
pack, you may well discover that you can get similar (or perhaps better)
range from a lighter pack of AGMs if you are discharging at high rates
due to their superior high rate discharge capability. What happens is
that although the flooded battery may have a similar or better Wh/lb
figure at the C/20 rate, the AGM battery may have a better Wh/lb figure
at the C/1 to 2C rate more typical of EV use. However, you must also
consider that for while you can discharge a flooded lead battery to
80%DOD and still get reasonable life from it, you really don't want to
take an AGM much below 50% on a regular basis if you want it to have a
similar life.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don,
I just surfed your VW Beetle Conversion, and saw that
You did an excellent job detailing all the requirements
Analysis and steps of your conversion (with photographs).
I made bookmarks to all the pages as reference.
Thanks for the detailed design notes!
Can you tell me one thing though...what software did you
Use to draft some of the motor mount - transmission mount
Adaptors?
It would be helpful to know that so we (I) can do the same
Thing when the time comes.
Thanks!
Joel
tel: +001 250 889 2480
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.cameronmotorworks.com <http://www.cameronmotorworks.com/>
sms: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am off to stuff my first Mark 3 Digi Reg...
Got PCBs...
Oh fun...
I will let you all know how it goes.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you have any more details for Flight Systems...
Google is turning up quite a clutter of
Flight related information...
Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: looking for VW bug kit
For VW kits or any other small EV, try Flight Systems. They have a EV
division, that makes ev kits. They also a large stock of used parts and
motors. They provide the EV-1 motor controllers.
There WEB site does not work for some reason, so just type "Flight
Systems"
in your search engine.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hacker Joel-QA6240" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:22 AM
Subject: RE: looking for VW bug kit
> Steve,
>
> Your link www.grassrootaev.com does not work for some reason...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of STEVE CLUNN
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:54 AM
> To: [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: looking for VW bug kit
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "charles w jarvis III"
> > Hey folks. Long time lurker, "coming out" (of lurk that is) just
long
> > enough to look around for anyone with spare EV parts or kits for a
74
> > VW bug. I already have a sep-ex controller, (GE 72v 350amp) so I'm
in
> > need of a sep-ex motor, adapter plate and coupler.
> >
> > Before the flood of advice comes in.........YES, I know this will
make
>
> > for a pitiful performer.
> Hi Sir Charles
> as long as you know that then there's no problem , you are trying to
> build your ev on your budget , that's ok , the problem comes when
you
> try to do it with stuff that just won't work , then you west your time
> and money ,
> ending with nothing . But as your on the list , this won't happen :-)
> .
>
>
> But hey....Im broke and on a shoestring budget! and It's mostly for
> just around town anyway. Mostly back roads and 45 mph tops! (most in
> town is 35).
> if anyone does have any of these needed parts. Please contact me off
> list as I am currently two full months behind on reading here! ugh.
> >
> One reason that people take the time to write so much is that they
> believe there are many Lurkers doing the same thing and the advice is
> for many , so maybe people could post and send directly to you , which
I
> am doing . As there are probable more people doing what your doing
that
> there are building hi performance EV's , your post about how you pull
> this off may be helpful to a lot of Low budget EV'ers.
>
> .My first conversion was my "little red rider" mower I used a 96 volt
> Ametek motor and a BUNCH of 12ah scooter batteries. Only had a simple
> on-off for speed control and the 3speed. Starting in 2nd or 3rd would
> pull the front wheels off the ground! Lots of fun, but no match for
the
> "HMGT"!
> looking for a good 24/36 volt motor for it and a pwm controller big
> enough to let me continue to pull trailers around the yard with it.
> >
> This would be a good place to try out a contactor controller with some
> heavy coils for resistors to get the hang of this type of controller
,
> but your car motor will take another type , how big is this sep ex
> motor.
>
> >
> > anyway, running on empty here as its 3am now. going back into "lurk"
> mode
> > again. Thanks for all the great info here. The EVDL has kept me in
> "dream
> > mode" for the last two years. hoping to get out of "dream mode" and
> into
> > real world EV'ing!
> >
> Looks like your 2 big steps are a controller for the sep-ex motor and
a
> adapter plate
> With a low power system / home made controller the clutch becomes more
> important, I sell a video that shows how to make a adapter plate which
> if
> you video your project and let me us the footage you could have for
> free.
> www.grassrootaev.com
> Steve Clunn
>
>
>
> > Thanks for listening to me ramble. I tend to do that when tired. :-)
> >
> >
> > Sir Charles
> >
> > ___
> > / \
> > (o\!/o)
> > [] []
> >
> > (the above art looks right in my out going email here...hope it
turns
> out
> > ok on the list. it's suposed to be the front of a VW Beetle)
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes Roger... I agree.
But What they are missing is what other Lion folks deam nessasary for
reasonable levels of saftey.
That means for us racers, that we don't get killed, or have to call the
track Fire Guys.
Then there is the level of safety that We wish to have our clients and
customers be happy with...
This can be pretty hard to define. Let alone engineer to.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: Jesse James & Monster Garage Go Lithium!!!
> Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Guys... The V28 Lion packs have a LION proection chip and FET
> > that PWM and limit the peak current from the protected 7 cell
> > set.
>
> I think the discussion has been considering what potential issues might
> arise if one parallels a bunch of bare cells to get a module with
> EV-suitable peak current and capacity, and what protections might be
> required in that situation.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ask Wayland but I think he keeps them over 170 volts at full scream.
Pretty stiff!!!
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Busted in Blue Meanie!
> I stand corrected then. However, 1100 amps out of a 24 pound
> Hawker is still very impressive. What voltage do they sag
> to, at say, 1,000 amps?
>
>
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> >The Aero battery that Plasma Boy is using is good for
> >only 1100 amps, and at that he has thermally Damaged
> >them.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Something about that car made it make the news more so then most:
http://www.warp2search.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=27480&mode=nested&order=0&thold=0
http://wiredblogs.tripod.com/cars/index.blog?entry_id=1412842
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found the EV site by just typing in Flight Systems Electric Vehicle Parts
( or Kits) . I have one of the catalogs that I got about 30 years ago. They
have a VW kit that is direct replacement for a VW engine. You can get whole
array of aircraft style instruments for it, which includes a EV Fuel Gage
that works like a fuel gage, Amp meter, Volt meter, etc. Also control
circuits that prevent over speed, and contactor freeze protections, (prevent
the main contactors from welding together is close or open under load).
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hacker Joel-QA6240" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:06 PM
Subject: RE: looking for VW bug kit
> Do you have any more details for Flight Systems...
> Google is turning up quite a clutter of
> Flight related information...
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:34 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: looking for VW bug kit
>
> For VW kits or any other small EV, try Flight Systems. They have a EV
> division, that makes ev kits. They also a large stock of used parts and
> motors. They provide the EV-1 motor controllers.
>
> There WEB site does not work for some reason, so just type "Flight
> Systems"
> in your search engine.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hacker Joel-QA6240" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:22 AM
> Subject: RE: looking for VW bug kit
>
>
> > Steve,
> >
> > Your link www.grassrootaev.com does not work for some reason...
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of STEVE CLUNN
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:54 AM
> > To: [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: looking for VW bug kit
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "charles w jarvis III"
> > > Hey folks. Long time lurker, "coming out" (of lurk that is) just
> long
> > > enough to look around for anyone with spare EV parts or kits for a
> 74
> > > VW bug. I already have a sep-ex controller, (GE 72v 350amp) so I'm
> in
> > > need of a sep-ex motor, adapter plate and coupler.
> > >
> > > Before the flood of advice comes in.........YES, I know this will
> make
> >
> > > for a pitiful performer.
> > Hi Sir Charles
> > as long as you know that then there's no problem , you are trying to
> > build your ev on your budget , that's ok , the problem comes when
> you
> > try to do it with stuff that just won't work , then you west your time
> > and money ,
> > ending with nothing . But as your on the list , this won't happen :-)
> > .
> >
> >
> > But hey....Im broke and on a shoestring budget! and It's mostly for
> > just around town anyway. Mostly back roads and 45 mph tops! (most in
> > town is 35).
> > if anyone does have any of these needed parts. Please contact me off
> > list as I am currently two full months behind on reading here! ugh.
> > >
> > One reason that people take the time to write so much is that they
> > believe there are many Lurkers doing the same thing and the advice is
> > for many , so maybe people could post and send directly to you , which
> I
> > am doing . As there are probable more people doing what your doing
> that
> > there are building hi performance EV's , your post about how you pull
> > this off may be helpful to a lot of Low budget EV'ers.
> >
> > .My first conversion was my "little red rider" mower I used a 96 volt
> > Ametek motor and a BUNCH of 12ah scooter batteries. Only had a simple
> > on-off for speed control and the 3speed. Starting in 2nd or 3rd would
> > pull the front wheels off the ground! Lots of fun, but no match for
> the
> > "HMGT"!
> > looking for a good 24/36 volt motor for it and a pwm controller big
> > enough to let me continue to pull trailers around the yard with it.
> > >
> > This would be a good place to try out a contactor controller with some
> > heavy coils for resistors to get the hang of this type of controller
> ,
> > but your car motor will take another type , how big is this sep ex
> > motor.
> >
> > >
> > > anyway, running on empty here as its 3am now. going back into "lurk"
> > mode
> > > again. Thanks for all the great info here. The EVDL has kept me in
> > "dream
> > > mode" for the last two years. hoping to get out of "dream mode" and
> > into
> > > real world EV'ing!
> > >
> > Looks like your 2 big steps are a controller for the sep-ex motor and
> a
> > adapter plate
> > With a low power system / home made controller the clutch becomes more
> > important, I sell a video that shows how to make a adapter plate which
> > if
> > you video your project and let me us the footage you could have for
> > free.
> > www.grassrootaev.com
> > Steve Clunn
> >
> >
> >
> > > Thanks for listening to me ramble. I tend to do that when tired. :-)
> > >
> > >
> > > Sir Charles
> > >
> > > ___
> > > / \
> > > (o\!/o)
> > > [] []
> > >
> > > (the above art looks right in my out going email here...hope it
> turns
> > out
> > > ok on the list. it's suposed to be the front of a VW Beetle)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joel,
I used an inexpensive CAD software called Design CAD 3D Max - $100. Of all
the CAD products I evaluated, that was the best bang for the buck. Now, if
you are a student, I **highly** recommend to purchase a copy of SolidWorks
$200 for the student edition, $5000 for the commercial version. It is an
excellent CAD tool for engineering diagrams.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Hacker Joel-QA6240
Sent: February 15, 2006 3:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: EV1 BMS and Temp Management
Don,
I just surfed your VW Beetle Conversion, and saw that You did an excellent
job detailing all the requirements Analysis and steps of your conversion
(with photographs).
I made bookmarks to all the pages as reference.
Thanks for the detailed design notes!
Can you tell me one thing though...what software did you Use to draft some
of the motor mount - transmission mount Adaptors?
It would be helpful to know that so we (I) can do the same Thing when the
time comes.
Thanks!
Joel
tel: +001 250 889 2480
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.cameronmotorworks.com <http://www.cameronmotorworks.com/>
sms: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
