EV Digest 5187
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Why not more AC conversions vs DC conversions...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Battery powered Trains
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Why not more AC conversions vs DC conversions...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Why not more AC conversions vs DC conversions...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: DC/DC use with Xantrex Link 10 Battery Monitor. Why??
by Jim Walls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Battery powered Trains
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Attachments!
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: xantrex Link 1000
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Lithiums in Parallel (was: RE: Jesse James & Monster Garage Go
Lithium!!!)
by "electromc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) AGM failure
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Fwd: Braking energy to heat cabin?
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Dragtimes Vote
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Why not more AC conversions vs DC conversions...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) article: MIT Builds A Better Hybrid Car Battery
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Fwd: Braking energy to heat cabin?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Why not more AC conversions vs DC conversions...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery powered Trains
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Battery powered Trains
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE:Free snowblower
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) OT: "water car" hoax
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Attachments!
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Dragtimes Vote
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: OT: "water car" hoax
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) New Yahoo group on electric motor design
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: New Yahoo group on electric motor design
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: New Yahoo group on electric motor design - with a link this time!
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: New Yahoo group on electric motor design
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: AGM failure
by Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Hawker AeroBattery: Anyone have pricing / availability?
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Controllers
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Free snowblower
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: Controllers
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) RE: Hawker AeroBattery: Anyone have pricing / availability?
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
>
>>I don't think AC offers really anything much in the way of efficiency per
>> se,
>
> What do you call .174 - .288 kWh for AC vs. about .3-.5 for DC?
Shari,
Where are you getting these figures from and what do they represent?
Are you talking about from the batteries or from the wall outlet?
The only DC conversions I've heard of that need 300-500 wh per mile is
when they are talking about from the outlet.
My pickup truck, using 15 year old DC technology, got 260 wh per mile, at
highway speeds, from the battery. I've heard of other DC setups that got
less than 200 wh per mile.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is a very nice article. Even better considering its from 1975. Instant
charging in cold weather is a nice feature of semiconductors. I'd hate to
have to warm up my charger before I could begin charging :-D
That got me thinking, and someone with a longer memory than mine can correct
me if I'm worng, Diesel-Electric plants in trains and ships have been around
long before the term Hybrid-Electric. If it can work for trains it can
surely work for cars; same with all electric.
Thanks for sharing the .pdf
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bob Rice
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 10:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery powered Trains
Hi EVerybody;
Heres a cool battery train setup in Germany. It's an old article, can't
seem to find any newer stuff. Battery trains do and can work, as this
article proves. Load on the batteries, whats a few trons among friends. With
almost no rolling resistance and not having to climb hills, well, not very
STEEP hills a train can go pretty far. If I won the Power Ball thing, would
build some upgraded commuter cars, just for fun and later profit. Cities
could sytart commuter rail with existing freight RR's tracks. No need to
string catenery, at a million bux a mile.
Phillipe? Got yur ears on? Have you been over to Germany and maybe have
seen any of these trains, they seem to be toward the France side of Germany>
In Training
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Andrade said> "...What is the difference between a system with a 0 -
> 12,000 RPM motor with a torque curve T driving a car with a gear
> reduction of R, and a system with a 0 - 6000 RPM motor with a torque
> curve of 2T driving a car with a gear reduction of 0.5R,..."
>
> And the answer is amps.(mostly) One is high voltage low amps and other
> is lower voltage , high amps. Since resistance losses go up with square
> of amps, it is easier to control losses and heat at high voltage low
> amps than low voltage high amps.
>
No not really. The relationship between voltage and rpm is a design
consideration. Yes high voltage makes it easier to achieve high RPM, but
it isn't required. There have been 12,000 rpm brushed motors that run on
3V and 5000 RPM motors that run on 600V.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Seems to me I've heard about a DC powered Carmen Ghia that has similar
Sheesh, I can't believe I spelled that "Carmen". Need to remember not to
post before my second cup of coffee.
My apologies to all Karmann Ghia fans.
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A few days ago (I'm way behind) Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Does anyone have an installation guide for this Emeter? I suspect the
DC/DC is bad and need to replace it but I'd like to know why it failed.
Assuming it's the same as the Xantrex, it is available on the Xantrex
website as a pdf.
--
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ofc: 818-548-4804
http://home.earthlink.net/~k6ccc
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks, attachments are not allowed on the EV list - especially not huge ones
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EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Heres a cool battery train setup in Germany. It's an old article,
can't seem to find any newer stuff.
That was a 2MB attachment and it blew up the limited email box on my
telephone. Please post a link instead of a file, even if you have to
figure out a place to host it. It much more list friendly in the long
run. Thanks!
-Ken Trough
V is for Voltage
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff,
I have a Link 1000 that I use with my PV panels and a 12vdc system that powers
my 5th wheel. I also have grid power and so use both.
The Link 1000 has the same functions as the Emeter and some added features like
you say. It is used in conjunction with Freedom xx inverter/chargers ( but mine
is 12v input for inverter) From the Link there is a 4 wire telephone cable that
links to the Freedom inverter so that they can talk back and forth to charge
the battery pack from shore power or invert the dc to ac.
I wonder if the Freedom chargers could be configured to charge our voltage
battery packs. As is they only charge a 12 vdc (or 24v) system. The more I
think about this idea the better it is. The Charger uses a 3 stage curve and it
can equalize the batteries. It can also invert so that in case of a power
outage, you can use your battery pack to power house emergency circuits.
Maybe someone with a little more expertise in the area could give some input
here?
In my PV on a RV article I describe my setup in more detail if you want to
check it out.
I've just recently had some trouble with it, after 8 years, and xantrex said
they would mail me a replacement/new one for $185.
You're right it does take up more space, 4.5" x 3", but not much more than the
Emeter, 2.5" D.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:59 PM
Subject: xantrex Link 1000
>I am trying to get my EV ready for it's appointment with the referee on
> wednesday and would really like to drive it in under it's own power.
> (have considered trailering to nearby parking lot then drive a few miles
> only ;-)
>
> Anyhow, I need instrumentation and there is a great place for inverters
> and such in the "west marine" store in fresno. They don't have any link
> 10's but they have a link 1000. It is big,bulky and has a few other
> features like a light for AC in and CHG/Accept/float and some kind of
> simple "turn on inverter remote" that may be useful.
>
> Has anyone used these and got an opinion? It looks like a sheep in
> wolfes clothing.
>
> I will make a prescaler but I won't be able to find an isolated dc-dc in
> this town so, for now, it will be connected to the first battery.
>
> A note about west marine, they are a big chain, maybe affiliated with
> xantrex ???, (they are mentioned in the xantrex instruction book) and ,
> much to my surprise, they have the best collection of quality crimps for
> wires, various wires, waterproof plugs and do-hikies to handle the dock
> power.
>
> I joke with them about working on my "land yacht", The "bring it by for
> me to see" list is at about 20 places now.
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee do you mean thunderskys are crappy from factory?
Or the ones you have happen to be not so good?
Marco
Lee Hart wrote:
> It could be done, but I think you're doing it the hard way. For a
> scooter, I'd rather use a few big Li-Ion cells.
The four crappy TS-90LP
> Thunderskys I have only cost around $400, and deliver 14.4v 70ah at 25a.
> Use an Etek or Lemco motor and small PWM controller and you're in
> business.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting, I just has some AGM batteries fail.
Of course these were in my UPS for the computer, not in a car.
I came home, sat down by the computer, and heard this little
high-pitched whistle for a second. A little while later it happened
again, then the UPS fan kicked on for a few seconds. So I crawled
under the desk, and found that 1 of the 3 external battery packs was
HOT. So I disconnected it. I'll pop it open and see if there is any
visible damage later.
I wonder if this was triggered by our recent 8 hour power outage
where the UPS was run all the way down?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John offered:
> A mathless intuitive example is that after a stop, the brake rotors which
weigh maybe
> 5-10 pounds typically remain cool enough to touch. Very little energy
imparted to the
> brakes.
How about another mathless intuitive counter-example?:
If I plug brake my 1921 Milburn going down a slight hill at 25mph or
greater for more than a few seconds I run the risk of smoking wires and
other things under the car.
I was warned that the dump coil gets RED HOT and that plug braking needs to
be pulsed or "danger Will Robinson"...indeed, when we were towing the
vehicle and i accidentally had the shifter in plug braking, smell led to
visible smoke to small flame in a matter of under a minute.
Seems there should be some heat there to extract---and keep the heat from
being concentrated at the same time. Long hills would be particularly
sweet...
Maybe someone wants to look at the numbers.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
Noticed the talk on Dragtimes voting has died off- Also noted some Audi came out of nowhere and slaped the Mazda and the Nissan back to 2nd and 3rd place and that Corvette that was third is still trying to move up.
Thanks for posting this, Bruce. Where 'did' that Audi come from, and how
in the world did it get so many votes, so fast?
I vote every day for the EVs, and sure wish all who voted regularly and
propelled White Zombie to the number one spot, would do the same for our
EV friends fighting for next month's honor. All it would take, is for
this group to sit down today and vote once, and the Audi guy would see
stars and wonder how the EVs shot past him. Come on everyone, this is
fun! Vote for the EVers!
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andre said:
>> "No reason they could not be built in EV sizes with RPM's in the
>> 10,000 to 12,000 range.
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> it is easy to build a small diameter high rpm commutated motor, it is
> impractical to build a large diameter high rpm motor.
The molded plastic commutators that are common today are about the worst
choice for high rpm, but they are cheap and "good enough" for most uses.
Though harder to build commutators for high RPM, we can go a long way in
that direction before it becomes "impractical". Steel commutators are
just one example, and good enough to read 12,000 rpm.
> One other thing is that the brush surface speed goes up and there is a
> limit where the film won't form and the brushes grind to dust.
When things are working right, the brushes don't actually touch the
commutator bars. They "float" on an ionized layer of air, kind of like
the heads in a computer's hard disk drive. As long as you maintain this
layer, brush wear at higher rpm won't change significantly. Brushes
actually wear faster if the current is too low, because this boundary
layer doesn't form.
> sparkless because it's carbon-carbon
That's not sparkless! Carbon-carbon arcs are even hotter (you can use
them as cutting torches)! I suspect it won't ignite the fuel because
there's no air.
> Imagine if you were to invert the whole series motor...
This has been done on occasion for special applications. It leads toward
a design that looks very much like a normal AC motor. The commutator
turns into a mechanical version of a 3-phase H-bridge! But such motors
had more trouble with brush life.
The clever thing about the regular commutator is that (when everything
is done right), the switching occurs at zero voltage; thus there is
negligible arcing. Coupled with floating the brushes on an air film,
this is what produces the astounding long brush life that we take for
granted.
Calculate how many times a brush makes/breaks the circuit in a motor
that has 24 commutator bars and runs at (say) 3000 rpm for 5000 hours.
:-)
> How about 6-step on an induction motor. Would that be the "ford"
> Induction motor? Simpler (cheaper?) control on AC wound motor, regen
> and "fail on" safe.
Many AC inverters operate in 6-step mode for at least part of their
operating speed range. The Toyota Prius does this, for example. The
6-step waveform increases losses in the motor, but lowers losses in the
inverter. There are times when this puts you ahead overall.
I found that the 6-step waveform is only about 10% worse than a perfect
sinewave. So, an inverter that always operated in 6-step would cost you
about 10% in range.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"lithium nickel manganese oxide",
"about 10 times faster than unmodified lithium nickel manganese oxide
technology, according to MIT"
link:
http://www.personaltechpipeline.com/180203336?cid=rssfeed_pl_ptp
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 22:38:16 -0800, "Myles Twete"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>How about another mathless intuitive counter-example?:
> If I plug brake my 1921 Milburn going down a slight hill at 25mph or
>greater for more than a few seconds I run the risk of smoking wires and
>other things under the car.
>I was warned that the dump coil gets RED HOT and that plug braking needs to
>be pulsed or "danger Will Robinson"...indeed, when we were towing the
>vehicle and i accidentally had the shifter in plug braking, smell led to
>visible smoke to small flame in a matter of under a minute.
Well yeah, if I leave the parking brake on while towing, it'll get red
hot too :-) Your dump coil gets red hot quickly because it has little
thermal mass. What do you think it weighs, less than a pound? And if
you blow air across it to extract useful heat, it'll cool down very
quickly. It gets red hot only because there in only radiation and
maybe a little convection to remove the heat. Abstract that dump coil
to a heater. Would a few seconds' heat while slowing do anything
toward heating the cabin? Probably not.
I haven't been considering steep hills for several reasons. One,
steep hills kill range. Peukert if nothing else. Two, they cause
lots of motor heating, ergo, they're to be avoided. Three, we don't
have many around here. My field testing shows that regen does little
to extend battery life in this environment and that freewheeling
combined with pulsed power does far more.
I'm not saying that it won't work, just that it won't work enough to
be worth the hassle, perhaps unless as in your case, the heater is
already there, needing only a fan.
With your car in particular since you have an excellent amp-hour
gauge, you can easily determine how much energy would be available
from braking. Accelerate to a specified speed at a constant rate so
that the battery voltage remains the same. Measure said voltage. When
you reach the speed, chop the throttle. Read the amp-hour consumed.
Multiply by voltage to get watt-hours. That's the input energy to
bring the car to that speed.
Multiply by the efficiency factor, say, 0.8 to get the net kinetic
energy including drag and rolling resistance which is lost to
recovery. That is the maximum theoretical energy available for
recovery.
Divide that by whatever time interval you're interested in, say, 10
seconds to stop. That is the power rate in watts. Then think of a
space heater of the same wattage run for that 10 second interval.
Doesn't amount to much, does it?
(This could be simplified to watt-hours divided by the ratio of
acceleration to deceleration time but I wanted to go through the
thought experiment to make it clearer.)
You can conduct the same experiment going up the steep hill of your
choice. The energy expended going up is the same as going down, minus
the drag and rolling resistance.
>
>Seems there should be some heat there to extract---and keep the heat from
>being concentrated at the same time. Long hills would be particularly
>sweet...
There is, but again, is it worth the effort. A simple approach is a
large heat sink, say, a tank of water. Water holds 1 btu per pound
which is quite a lot.
An even better method from the standpoint of heat stored vs weight and
volume is a phase change medium. In other words, something that melts
and freezes at the temperature of interest.
For domestic hot water storage, paraffin is an excellent medium. Phase
change involves far more heat than simply changing the temperature.
I've built two phase change storage units for RVs that lets the owners
take long, luxurious showers with only the 5 or 10 gallon heater
onboard. There are many other fancy substances, alloys, polymers and
so on available that melt at almost any temperature you can imagine.
A good configuration would be an insulated tank filled with water and
spheres of the PC material and with the dump coil immersed in the
water. The water would heat to the melting point of the PC material
and then remain at that temperature until all the PC material is
melted. Upon withdrawal, the temperature would drop to the freezing
point and remain there until all the PC material has solidified.
If you (or someone else) wants to supply me some data I'll do the
math. I don't want to spend the time on a theoretical problem. I
need the vehicle weight, the watt-hours used to accelerate to a
designated speed, the watt-hours used to climb a designated hill and
how often you'd do that in a designated trip.
I can also approximate the motion losses (drag, rolling resistance) if
you'll do a coast-down test. On level ground, achieve a designated
speed, then as fast as possible chop the throttle and engage neutral.
Time the period it takes to come to a stop. With the vehicle weight I
can compute the losses. If I can get the Cd and frontal area (a
picture from a far distance with a telephoto lens to minimize parallax
error with a 1 ft ruler in the photo will let me calculate frontal
area) I can separate the wind resistance and rolling resistance.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> I don't think AC offers really anything much in the way of efficiency
>> per se,
Electro Automotive wrote:
> What do you call .174 - .288 kWh for AC vs. about .3-.5 for DC?
Except that my LeCar EV, with an Advanced DC L91 motor and Curtis 1231C
controller also uses under 0.25 kwh per mile.
The roughly 2:1 difference you cite for AC vs. DC is too large to
attribute solely to the motor and controller.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is another type of locomotive that is equally interesting. Known
as the "thermos bottle" locomotive, it consisted of little more than a
huge insulated steel pressure vessel mounted on the trucks of a steam
locomotive. The pressure vessel was filled with superheated water at
about 350 psi. The water flashed to steam as the pressure was reduced
and the steam drove the locomotive.
These locomotives were used around refineries, mines and other places
where there were lots of flammables about. They were 'refueled' from
piping brought from the plant's central boiler. One filling was good
for a whole shift.
Here's a photo of one used by PP&L at a power plant's coal yard. This
is located at the Pa railroad museum.
http://www.johngsbbq.com/Deep_linked/Thermos_bottle.jpg
John
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 02:59:25 -0500, "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Hi EVerybody;
>
> Heres a cool battery train setup in Germany. It's an old article, can't seem
> to find any newer stuff. Battery trains do and can work, as this article
> proves. Load on the batteries, whats a few trons among friends. With almost
> no rolling resistance and not having to climb hills, well, not very STEEP
> hills a train can go pretty far. If I won the Power Ball thing, would build
> some upgraded commuter cars, just for fun and later profit. Cities could
> sytart commuter rail with existing freight RR's tracks. No need to string
> catenery, at a million bux a mile.
>
> Phillipe? Got yur ears on? Have you been over to Germany and maybe have seen
> any of these trains, they seem to be toward the France side of Germany>
>
> In Training
>
> Bob
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I ran into a guy at the bar in an airport somewhere (I really don't remember
where) He is part of a group in the northwest, Oregon I think. They are
converting switchyard engines to battery power. They remove all the diesel
stuff and fill the deck full of batteries. Selling them to yards that are in
the city to get rid of the noise and stink problem associated with idling
locomotive diesels.
Mark Grasser
Subject: Re: Battery powered Trains
There is another type of locomotive that is equally interesting. Known
as the "thermos bottle" locomotive, it consisted of little more than a
huge insulated steel pressure vessel mounted on the trucks of a steam
locomotive. The pressure vessel was filled with superheated water at
about 350 psi. The water flashed to steam as the pressure was reduced
and the steam drove the locomotive.
These locomotives were used around refineries, mines and other places
where there were lots of flammables about. They were 'refueled' from
piping brought from the plant's central boiler. One filling was good
for a whole shift.
Here's a photo of one used by PP&L at a power plant's coal yard. This
is located at the Pa railroad museum.
http://www.johngsbbq.com/Deep_linked/Thermos_bottle.jpg
John
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 02:59:25 -0500, "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Hi EVerybody;
Heres a cool battery train setup in Germany. It's an old article, can't
seem to find any newer stuff. Battery trains do and can work, as this
article proves. Load on the batteries, whats a few trons among friends.
With almost no rolling resistance and not having to climb hills, well,
not very STEEP hills a train can go pretty far. If I won the Power Ball
thing, would build some upgraded commuter cars, just for fun and later
profit. Cities could sytart commuter rail with existing freight RR's
tracks. No need to string catenery, at a million bux a mile.
Phillipe? Got yur ears on? Have you been over to Germany and maybe have
seen any of these trains, they seem to be toward the France side of
Germany>
In Training
Bob
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's at my employer in Montgomeryville PA. If you can't pick it up here
I can schlep it home (Narberth PA) for pickup on the weekend. Please
email me off-list.
The last thing I need is another project,
I would like to take you up on this offer but to drive (4 hours) from
Pittsburgh for a snow thrower even for free is a bit much.
I am already trying to convert my old snow thrower to electric. The
motor arrived last week. And I was disassembling the machine at the
same time you were writing this.
Let me know if you are heading close to Pgh.
Mike G.
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Ah the classic "water powered car" hoax. Well, the news station looks
like they thoroughly researched it.
http://mediax.muchosucko.com/movies/water_engine-16-02-06.mp4
Danny
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Ken Trough wrote:
> Please post a link instead of a file, even if you have to
> figure out a place to host it.
Here's a link for future reference:
http://rapidshare.de/
I use that site all the time with great results.
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Something is really fishy concerning the initial
voting.
The Subera last month jumped up to 1400 votes and then
barely got 10 votes a day after that. I think they
are finding a way to artificially increase voting when
the car is initially featured.
Maybe you could email the site owner and ask him about
the legitimacy of this vehicle (the Audi).
I believe the Corvette has a large following and has
many voters just like the EV's.
I don't however believe the Audi has a very big
audience.
Rod
--- John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello to All,
>
> Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
>
> >Noticed the talk on Dragtimes voting has died off-
> Also noted some Audi came out of nowhere and slaped
> the Mazda and the Nissan back to 2nd and 3rd place
> and that Corvette that was third is still trying to
> move up.
> >
>
> Thanks for posting this, Bruce. Where 'did' that
> Audi come from, and how
> in the world did it get so many votes, so fast?
>
> I vote every day for the EVs, and sure wish all who
> voted regularly and
> propelled White Zombie to the number one spot, would
> do the same for our
> EV friends fighting for next month's honor. All it
> would take, is for
> this group to sit down today and vote once, and the
> Audi guy would see
> stars and wonder how the EVs shot past him. Come on
> everyone, this is
> fun! Vote for the EVers!
>
> See Ya....John Wayland
>
>
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On 18 Feb 2006 at 13:49, Danny Miller wrote:
> Well, the news station looks
> like they thoroughly researched it.
How do you figure? It looked like a typically fawning, vacuous TV news
"feature" to me. Or are you being facetious?
Fill 'er up! ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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I thought many on this list would be interested in the
technical
files that are being posted in this yahoo group.
Some of the files include;
1) Design of an in-wheel motor for solar electric cars
2) Design of a PM Brushless Motor Drive for electric
hybrid motor
3) Development of Traction Drive Motors for the Toyota
Hybrid System.......Munehiro Kamiya* Toyota Motor
Corporation developed in 2005 a new hybrid system for
a large SUV.
4) IN-WHEEL MOTOR DESIGN FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLES
5) Basic Introduction of different types of electric
motors
I think you have to join to access the files, but it's
probably worth it.
Rod
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This group or some other group?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evcontrols/
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricalmotordesigners/files/
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I thought many on this list would be interested in
> the
> technical
> files that are being posted in this yahoo group.
> Some of the files include;
> 1) Design of an in-wheel motor for solar electric
> cars
> 2) Design of a PM Brushless Motor Drive for electric
> hybrid motor
> 3) Development of Traction Drive Motors for the
> Toyota
> Hybrid System.......Munehiro Kamiya* Toyota Motor
> Corporation developed in 2005 a new hybrid system
> for
> a large SUV.
> 4) IN-WHEEL MOTOR DESIGN FOR ELECTRIC VEHICLES
> 5) Basic Introduction of different types of electric
> motors
>
> I think you have to join to access the files, but
> it's
> probably worth it.
> Rod
>
>
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Nope, it's this one.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricalmotordesigners/files/
I also downloaded an 850 page electrical engineering
reference book
from the site owner. It's pretty complete and the the
price is right (free).
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This group or some other group?
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evcontrols/
>
>
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Aren't those normally Gel Cells in a battery backup system?
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
Interesting, I just has some AGM batteries fail.
Of course these were in my UPS for the computer, not in a car.
I came home, sat down by the computer, and heard this little
high-pitched whistle for a second. A little while later it happened
again, then the UPS fan kicked on for a few seconds. So I crawled under
the desk, and found that 1 of the 3 external battery packs was HOT. So
I disconnected it. I'll pop it open and see if there is any visible
damage later.
I wonder if this was triggered by our recent 8 hour power outage where
the UPS was run all the way down?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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I didn't see any answer to this question either. One of the first
things I look into when considering a product is "can I purchase this
easily". If I can find a posted price and a "Buy Now" button, I'm
*much* more likely to consider that product for a certain design. So
right now, Aerobatteries are just a John Wayland special product :) So
John, where can these things be bought and for how much?
Did anyone ever answer this? I went through the recent list posts, and
didn't really find an answer. Does anyone have ballpark pricing?
Ryan Bohm wrote:
Where does one purchase these Aerobatteries? It appears the
Aerobattery website is under renovation, so none of the links seem to
work.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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Anyone have a used or dead Zilla for sale?
Also, I have a Curtis PMC21 that has been stored for 10 years. It has a
max rated voltage of 96, can I kick this up? If so, what will happen to
the current capacity? It is presently rated at 400A.
Thanks for any help,
Jimmy
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Just a side snowblower data point:
Last Sunday we got about 15 inches of very heavy, wet snow. It was my
first chance to try the Elec-trak snow-blower with the BB600 NiCD batteries.
First off: Blowing thick wet heavy snow is very energy intensive.
Several times I almost stalled the auger and it blew out like soup. The
POR-15 lined chute did not clog once, however the motor definitely had a
time with it. The batteries were incredible; they were putting out well
over 300 amps at 36 volts for stretches of time. Average power draw was
over 100 amps. Very little voltage drop.
Several of the neighbors had gas blowers that either stalled out or
sheared pins. I'm still amazed that it was so heavy it would come close
to stalling mine; that motor is significantly bigger than the E20's main
drive motor and it's a series model to boot.
If you're converting a blower, use a big motor with a lot of torque, and
go for a battery pack that will be stiff in the cold. NiCDs from
sg-photo might be the best bet actually; they don't suffer too much in
the cold and they put out the voltage under heavy amps without sagging
too much.
Chris
M.G. wrote:
It's at my employer in Montgomeryville PA. If you can't pick it up here
I can schlep it home (Narberth PA) for pickup on the weekend. Please
email me off-list.
The last thing I need is another project,
I would like to take you up on this offer but to drive (4 hours) from
Pittsburgh for a snow thrower even for free is a bit much.
I am already trying to convert my old snow thrower to electric. The
motor arrived last week. And I was disassembling the machine at the
same time you were writing this.
Let me know if you are heading close to Pgh.
Mike G.
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On 18 Feb 2006 at 15:15, Jimmy Argon wrote:
> Also, I have a Curtis PMC21 that has been stored for 10 years. It has a
> max rated voltage of 96, can I kick this up? If so, what will happen to
> the current capacity? It is presently rated at 400A.
The PMC-21 is a fairly solid second generation (or maybe 1.5 generation;-)
transistor controller. I had a PMC-25, the higher voltage version. It was
butter-smooth with a Prestolite motor - I could move the car by centimeters -
and hardly ever got more than slightly warm even when under lots of load.
This may be partly because it was a low-frequency controller, chopping at 2
kHz, which also causes it to have an audible whine when it's in current
limit. The noise never bothered me but some people find it annoying.
The 21/25s have one weakness, the circuit which derives logic voltage from
the battery voltage. One resistor is undersized and it tends to burn out.
If this happens the controller acts like the battery is undervoltage and
won't go over 50 amps. AFAIK Curtis doesn't work on these controllers any
more, so if it fails you will probably have cut into the potting compound
and fix it yourself.
The PMC-21 is rated for 72-96 volts. If you try to run it above that it
will probably either not operate or (more likely) fail, possibly in a
spectacular fashion. My PMC-25 was rated for 96-120 volts, and its input
caps were 130 volt, IIRC, so I'd be surprised if the caps in yours were more
than 100 volt.
This caution goes double now that it's probably just about old enough to
vote. In fact I would even be hesitant to take it over about 84 volts. If
you want to run more than 96 volts, sell it to someone who will appreciate
it, and buy something else.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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For a close relative of the Aerobatteries, click on Odyssey Batteries (made
by Hawker. I'm getting mine through West Coast Batteries in CA.
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Bohm
Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 3:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hawker AeroBattery: Anyone have pricing / availability?
I didn't see any answer to this question either. One of the first
things I look into when considering a product is "can I purchase this
easily". If I can find a posted price and a "Buy Now" button, I'm
*much* more likely to consider that product for a certain design. So
right now, Aerobatteries are just a John Wayland special product :) So
John, where can these things be bought and for how much?
--
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