EV Digest 5191
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EV display at Portland rod and custom show
by Tim Brehm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Can't Buy a Glider?
by Cory Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: EVs Knock Down two 1st & one 3rd Place Trophies at Rod & Custom Show!
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: charger idea
by "Ted C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Train Efficiencies was Re: Battery powered Trains, and hybrids
by "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Has anyone tried switching thru series strings of small AGMs
to maximize range?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Why not more AC conversions vs DC conversions...
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: charger idea
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Battracide
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Free snowblower
by "Christopher Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Hawker AeroBattery: Anyone have pricing / availability?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Steel commutators, was: RE: Why not more
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Steel commutators, was: RE: Why not more
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Steel commutators, was: RE: Why not more
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: EVs Knock Down two 1st & one 3rd Place Trophies at Rod & Custom Show!
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Battery powered Trains, and hybrids, more stuff.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Driving 45 mph on the freeway?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: charger idea
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everyone,
I just made it home from the fourth day of the rod & custom show, as fun
as it was I'm sure glad it's over. It did however give Wayland weeks of
material to write about. It was very eventful there seemed to be a huge crowd
around the EV display most of the weekend. Everyone loved watching the videos
of the battery car pull the front wheels up and take off down the track beating
most of the muscle cars it raced against.
Many people that stopped by the booth already know about the little electric
car that beat up on unsuspecting gas cars at the track and occasionally on the
street. However there was one guy who made my whole weak end. While answering
questions and showing the car I heard someone say "hey that car smoked my car
on the track last year" as he was pointing to the White Zombie. I quickly made
my way through the crowd to talk to him. He didn't realize that I had anything
to do with the car as he told me it was faster than hell and tried to convince
me that the car runs a low 9 second 1/4 mile. I assured him it only runs low
12s. He responded with" My 66 impala runs low 12s and this car left me at the
line" . As he started looking a little closer at the car he got kind of a blank
look on his face as he looked at all the batteries in the space where the back
seat used to be. He made his way to look under the hood, now he seemed very
confused as he turned to me and asked "where in !
the hell
is the engine? I just about lost it, this guy had no idea he had been beaten
by a battery car until now. The worst thing about it was he had three friend
there laughing at him for losing to a battery powered Datsun. It probably
ruined this guys day, but it sure made mine.
This is just one of the many highlights of the weekend, I'm sure Wayland will
have many posts and maybe if we are lucky he will explain the mysterious red
dot he was obsessing about all weekend.
Tim Brehm
---------------------------------
What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
What do you want in a glider? Are people looking for 2-seaters or
4-seaters? FWD/AWD/RWD?
So, if you could get that, with an adaptor for your motor and ample
room designed for batteries, how much is it worth to you?
I know a guy who builds autocross cars (street legal, don't worry). He
loves to try new and old technology, and may be able to source a few
gliders for willing buyers.
Cory Cross
--Almost done with my EV-ATV
--gotta weld an adaptor and wire it up
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
I got home at 10:30, no problems en route. J. Thomas sends greetings to
Bad Clyde.
F.t.
> [Original Message]
> From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 2/19/2006 8:52:31 PM
> Subject: EVs Knock Down two 1st & one 3rd Place Trophies at Rod & Custom
Show!
>
> Hello to All,
>
> It's been a l-o-n-g weekend! This is just a quickie to let everyone
> know, that much to our complete surprise, all three of our racing EVs
> took home trophies from this weekend's Portland Rod & Custom Show.
>
> Father Time's electric Legend Car took first in its category over some
> pretty heady gas car competition, and in a field of too many racing
> motorcycles to list, his compact 'Frankendragon' electric motorcycle
> took an impressive 3rd place.
>
> White Zombie beat all contenders in the 'Unlimited Race' category and
> won the first place trophy.
>
> More to follow after some much needed sleep.
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I do something similar to what you are talking about. Just not with computer
power supplies. I use four Dual Pro four bank pro SE chargers for my
charging needs. Each charger is four isolated 10amp chargers. Each of my
twelve 12volt batteries get individual attention. This setup also helps
avoid some problems you get when you charge a pack in series. When the car
is ready for a charge it draws around 1300watts from a 120v outlet(no
battery heaters in that figure). Then works it way down to a Maintenance
charge of 90watts. If one battery has a problem the charger will let me know
which battery it is. It also shows me the percentage of charge per battery
while charging. This also helps find batteries that are losing their
amp/hour capacity. I haven't been doing this setup very long, but it seems
to be working fine.
You will want to make sure the supplies will make it up to good charging
voltage. If the computer power supply only goes up to 12volt period(as I
suspect it does). You will never get a good charging voltage and you will
murder you batteries with a slow painful dead. If you could find one that
you could adjust the voltage up to 14volts, you maybe in business. But thats
a BIG MAYBE. Computer power supplies are just not made for this kind of job.
Good luck,
TED
Olympia, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike golub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:59 PM
Subject: charger idea
> I was wondering if I was trying to charge a 120 Volt
> DC pack, and a got a 10 computer power supplies giving
> 12 volts dc each, could I connect them to charge my
> batteries?
>
> I guess I would need a timer, so they won't get over
> charged.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Mike
> Fairbanks
>
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--- Begin Message ---
The goat is a good step in the right direction for waste avoidance, though, as
it is used
in railyards as a locomotive push train-cars to place and build a trains to go
across
country to the next trainyard.
Almost all diesel trains use electric traction motors instead of mechanical
transmissions.
There is a hybrid train locomotive, though, and GM has built it, and put it on
their page:
https://www.getransportation.com/general/locomotives/hybrid/hybrid_default.asp
Take a look.
Steve Love -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: Battery powered Trains, and hybrids
> Hi Bob,
>
> I don't know if you could truly call the Goat a 'full hybrid.' Not only
> can it NOT be plugged in, but the regen uses the same resistor grids as
> all other diesel-electrics, so the energy is wasted as heat. The only
> advantage comes from the fact that they can use a smaller cleaner diesel
> engine.
>
> I was hoping that Metrolink and other heavy commuter rail could use
> these,
> since they stop every two to three miles and spend a lot of time idling.
> But without the ability to recharge through regen, the Goat misses a big
> part of the energy efficiency boat.
>
> Tim
>
>
> ---------
> From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: February 18, 2006 10:39:59 PM PST
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Battery powered Trains, and hybrids
>
> The Rail Power Hybrid locomotives, the "Green Goats" are pure
> hybrids as
> the OOMPH is really provided by tons of batteries, rather than a Big
> diesel
> engine. In that it can run strictly on batteries OR a small diesel,
> provided
> to keep the batteries charged. I don't think Rail Power offers a
> Plugitin
> loco?The Chicago, North Shore and Milwaukee RR had a fleet of elecytric
> locos WITH batteries aboard for switching non wired sidings. The
> batteries
> were floated on charge when the engine was running under the
> catenery. Cool
> Idea!Always thought this would work for trolley buses, to extending the
> routes and detours.
>
> Todaze modern diesels mearly are electric locomotives that schleppe
> along their own substation.Very easy to fit them with 3rd rail shoes for
> running indoors, or urben areas where the Dieasel smoke isn't
> desirable.With
> a bit of creative engineering we could go a long way with simple
> solutions.
>
> Keep on Training
>
> Bob
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry but it doesn't work that way. Lead-Acid batteries (regardless of
type, i.e. flooded, AGM, etc.) experience something called the Peukert's
effect.
Basically this means that the battery will produce less total energy at
high current draws than it will at low current.
For example an AGM battery might produce 50AH with a 25 amp draw, but only
35AH with a 50 amp draw.
So if you had two batteries and needed to draw 50 amps, you'd be able to
do this for two hours if you had both of them connected in parallel, but
only about 40 minutes each if you drain them separately.
So if you have multiple batteries you get more total energy out of them if
you use them all at the same time, than you do if divide the pack up and
use each part separately.
And if you are going to carry a given weight in batteries, you'll probably
get more energy if you use one string of large batteries than you will if
you use two parallel strings of smaller batteries. Pound for pound,
smaller batteries tend to have more wasted weight in the case and
terminals and less weight in active materials (lead and acid).
For example two strings will have twice as much weight in terminals and
terminal connectors, neither of these components store energy.
> How to maximize range with AGMs in my EV Geo? One idea was that if AGMs
> are good at peak power delivery, then size them so that's where they
> operate given the current demands of the EV. Since the other components of
> the EV Geo are already in place like the Curtis 1231 with 144v / 500 amp
> limits, then size the AGMs to work with this. And finally, try multiple
> series strings of these, say 3 for now, and the ability to switch thru the
> 3 strings as each string is exhausted.
>
> So if the EV Geo cruises at 75 amps and peaks at multiples of this on
> hills and acceleration, then maybe use BCI=U1 (~33ah) or smaller batts
> in 3 strings of 144 volts or less. Basically try to size them so they
> are delivering peak power as much of the time as possibile.
>
> So there's 3 strings of these but you are only running on 1 string at a
> time. When the string is exhausted (50%-60% d.o.d), simply turn the
> dashboard rotary swtich to the next string and continue driving.
>
> Another reason for the 3 series strings is it could allow the other 2 to
> recover somewhat while the presently selected string is being drawn
> from. So as you drive you just keep switching thru them, increasingly
> faster no doubt. Eventually of course, they would run out.
>
> Has anyone tried this? The question is would it actually result in
> significant extension of range versus the traditional AGM pack
> configurations like just a single series string of bigger batts.
>
> A variant would be to size the batts even smaller so they are delivering
> peak power at the 75 amp cruise. But then when more current is needed,
> the other strings automatically kick-in temporarily to supply the extra
> current demand, then turn off again. With smaller batts one could have
> more strings to switch through to tap their recovery energy after the
> first pass through all of them. One could still rotate through them with
> a dashboard switch as the presently selected string became exhausted.
>
> I guess one logical extension of this is that so much string switching
> starts happening that it is automated and you get into "pulse draws"
> from the strings like in microsecond or nanosecond bursts. If one did
> this, could it significantly extend the range capabilities of lead-acid
> packs?
>
> Too much complexitiy though and one might as well try something else for
> maximum range like a trailer or advanced batts. But could "pulse draws"
> from Nimh or Li-ion increase their range delivery too?
>
>
> Mark Freidberg
>
> -1980 Jet Electra Van 600
> -1994 Geo Metro EV
> -2002 Ego 2
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Brings words and photos together (easily) with
> PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
>>I'm not following you. For one thing DC motors suitable for conversions
>>are readily available at voltages from 36V to 600V.
>
> And for a given HP or torque at an rpm what is the battery amps of the two
> systems?
>
> 36V @ 1000 amps = 60Amps * 600V
>
> Losses are relative to square of amps, and cable size,connectors and to
> some extent silicon, are related to amps.
So you use heavier cable and the losses are the same. FWIW using
available batteries, 600V requires 50ea 12V batteries which means 100
terminals and 100 terminal connectors which add weight and don't store
energy (just like using heavier cable). Also for a given weight in
batteries you will need to use smaller batteries which generally have a
lower energy density.
Roughly speaking it balances out.
>>As many the folks that argue about drag racers point out, there is no law
>>of nature that directly links voltage to HP(or torque). You can find
>>motors designed for just about any voltage at a wide variety of HP.
>
> But I think it would also be agreed that there are some practical limits
> to the number of amps(and volts for that matter)
Yes, if your goal is drag racing, then it's easier to go fast with higher
voltage. At least with the readily available components.
My point was that you don't HAVE to have high voltage to go fast; i.e. you
can get (relatively) high torque at high RPM with low voltage.
> In an AC motor, the BEMF generated is subtracted from the applied voltage
> and the remaing voltage is avail for making torque.
Ok first BEMF works EXACTLY the same in DC motors as it does in AC motors.
Secondly, BEMF is a function of motor design, repeating myself but it has
NOTHING to do with whether the motor is AC or DC (since they are BOTH AC
inside)
Finally, torque is related to AMP turns. Voltage is irelevant except that
it allows you to push the current through the resistance of the wires.
You can get exactly the same torque using higher current through a few
turns of thick wire (low voltage) or lower current through a large number
of turns of thinnner wire (higher voltage).
> When a motor is rewound so that a lower voltage can make higher rpm, the
> torque constant goes down. Watts is Watts and HP is a product of rpm and
> torque, no free lunches :-( I am not a motor guru, but I have poored over
> charts and there is usually a torque curve per voltage applied.
As you say, watts is watts, so unless you do something that makes a major
change in the efficiency of the motor, a given Watt input will result in
the same HP output.
>>So it doesn't matter if you have a 12,000 RPM AC drive system running at
>>360V or a 6,000 RPM DC drive running at 120V, assuing similar system
>>efficiency, if you pull 60kw from the batteries you'll end up with
>>approximately 60hp at the wheels. With a given HP output, at the same
>>vehicle speed, you are going to get the same wheel torque.
>
> Yes! Watts = V * Amps But what if 60kw isn't enough :-(
Which has nothing to do with RPM, or getting back to the original point,
that high voltage is required or implied for high RPM (which is NOT true)
>
> 60KW is about 80hp.
>
> 60KW at 360V is 167Amps
> 60KW at 120V is 500Amps
>
> but lets say we want 200hp
>
> my zilla set for 400 battery amps and a motor limit of 170V and 1000amps
> on a 300V pack lets say sagging to 240V
> is 96KW = 128HP but could be as high as 170V @ 1000A or 170kw at motor =
> 226Hp
>
> I have 2/0 cables all over the place. If I was dragging this I would put
> 4/0 or double 2/0 in motor loop.
>
> What are the pukert losses at 400 battery amps? what are the controller
> and wire heating losses.
>
> Ok now what if I had 480V capable motor on 360V pack
>
>
> Even in motor loop now that I can go higher in voltage, I will never see
> over 472Amps.
>
> Which goes back to my original point, one the rest of the system, what
> difference does it make? one word... AMPS.
Uhh, so? What does this have to do with the difference between AC and DC?
None of the available AC systems can handle the AMPs that a Zilla can
dish out, and the Zilla can do it at just as high a voltage as the AC
systems.
So, as I originally said, it's not as clear cut as AC gives you high RPM
at high voltage and low amps and DC gives you low RPM at low voltage and
high AMPs.
With a Zilla you can have just as high a voltage and much more AMPs, but
this has nothing to do with AC or DC, just with the design of the Zilla.
There is nothing intrinsically low voltage about DC system or high voltage
about AC systems. Nor does high voltage mean that you have to use low
current.
Yes for a given power output, high voltage will use less current, so what?
High voltage also needs more batteries, more connectors, more etc.
non-active components. This practically evens out the higher weight
needed in heavier cables to keep your I2R losses the same at low voltage.
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--- Begin Message ---
Theoretically, probably.
Assuming the power supplies are isolated (not always a given) you could
probably hack them and turn them into a battery charger. But by the time
you figured out how, and then added the work and parts, you probably would
have been able to build a charger from scratch.
FWIW, if you have a pack of flooded batteries, people have been know to
charge them with nothing more than a rectifier and a bunch of extension
cords (to add resistance). This is a very hands on method and slightly
dangerous, so it's picked up the nick name "Bad boy charger"
A better method than either of these would be to get a bunch of 12V or 24V
battery chargers and use them. Search the archieves for something called
"Modular chargers"
There are advanatages and disadvantages to this. Disadvantages include
the possibility of one of the chargers failing and you not noticing that
one of your batteries didn't get charged. One of the advantages is that,
if everything works right, the batteries are always automatically
equalized.
Of course the best bet is probably to see if you can find a used 120V
charger around somewhere. That or spend the bucks and buy a new one.
> I was wondering if I was trying to charge a 120 Volt
> DC pack, and a got a 10 computer power supplies giving
> 12 volts dc each, could I connect them to charge my
> batteries?
>
> I guess I would need a timer, so they won't get over
> charged.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Mike
> Fairbanks
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
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--- Begin Message ---
Yup, I've brought a few cells back from extreemly low voltage, but they
never worked right or lasted long.
Chalk it up to experience.
"He's dead Jim." - Dr. (Bones) McCoy
> Oops.
>
> I am trying to put back together my EV. I kept chargeing the batteries
> with a single charger, a few per weekend during the months it was down,
> but I forgot one, the one I was using as an AUX battery. It looks like
> there may have been a load not all the way off, it was down to 2 Volts
> :-(
>
> So I got the single battery charger("dayton 10amp") and started it on
> 6Volts, It started off very slow then picked up the pace so I turned it
> to 12V. After about 4 hours it is up to 11V on the charger and the
> amount of amps increased to the point were the charger started cutting
> out. Remove the charger and it drops quickly to about 7Volts and the
> battery feels warm. Did I commit my first battracide and reverse a
> cell? Can I fix this?
>
> This is a XCD orbital, made sept 2005 purchased in about november with
> the whole traction pack.The rest of them in the pack read about 12.66 V
> and was lighting the led on the balancers.
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Marc Breitman wrote:
> The blower still available? I work at a toro retail/warranty station
and I
> would be happy to take it in.
Hi Marc,
Yes, the snowblower is still available. For those who missed my first
post on this, it's a 3-season-old Toro CCR-3650 walk-behind as described
here (except the engine is seized solid):
http://www.toro.com/home/snowthrowers/gassinglestage/ccr3650.html
I'd love to have someone come to Montgomeryville PA during working hours
to pick it up at my employer, or I can take it home to Narberth PA if
you can only pick it up on a weekend. (Please contact me off-list to
make arrangements.)
However -
I'm standing firm on the condition I stated before. That is, it's free
to anyone who will convert it to electric power. If your employment at
a Toro repair center is helpful because it puts all the incidental bits
needed for a conversion easily at hand, come on down! If you plan to
fix the original 2-stroke engine, no deal. I'd rather scrap it than
revive a 2-stroke.
The only good 2-stroke is a dead 2-stroke.
Chris
P.S. I tried to post this on the ET list, but all attempts there are
bounced. If Marc or someone else doesn't claim this soon I'll ask
someone to post it to ET for me.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
MAybe a silly question but which model is the Aero Cell? All the ones listed
are Harley Davison or General use Auto starting batteries. These are also the
Odysessey line.
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://www.remybattery.com/350/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=343&subcat=477&cat=Odyssey%3Cbr%3EPower+Sports+%2F+Motorcycle
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new
and used cars.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey James, all
First before we get the horse in front of the cart so to speak is I've seen
my share of blown steel comm, just not sure where they blew at, lol. So even
the steel guys have the weak points. The Bake-a-lite comms have 3 to 4 "T"
shaped lock down knubs that hold the bar in place along the length of the bar.
The old steel comm's had a fish tail looking lock down in the center of the bar
that the steel cones press against to lock it all tight. There are two ways to
tighten the steel comm's that I've seen. One is to use a nut and thread and
the other is a tube rivit like style. Both can be tightened if they work loose
which is a big plus if things work loose. For an out of the box type idea I've
been thinking about when I had a guy who wanted me to bore out the first half
of the comm underneath the bars and place a small brush ring and brush set
inbetween the shaft and under the comm bars riding the inside of the comm.
This got me thinking that if one were to build an i!
nside out
comm. Build a cup and place the bars inside with a brush set up to ride
inside RPM's would just push the bars tighter against the cup wall which could
be built to withstand alot of spin. FT and I got to talk about this alot this
weekend. When I find time I'll grab some pics of a steel comm bar, just not
sure if I have a blown one or not. If I don't I'll have to detsroy one but
even that sounds kinda fun, damn it I been hanging with John, FT, and Tim to
much, hehehe. I guess my thoughts are that there really are a million ways to
skin a cat and well if we're gonna do something why not do it even better than
what was going on 80 years ago??
Hope this helps, more to follow I'm sure. I was pretty burnt out yesterday
but wanted / needed to address the steel comm issues I learned about and still
need to verify.
As it's close to time for me to head to the shop I wanted to throw out
something to chew on for awhile, hehehe.
PS: trying to machine out a Bake-a- lite comm for steel use would not work
do to the different type of keys they use to hold everything tight. The older
comms also had alot more meat underneath adding to the heat sink abilities of
the bar itself as there was just alot more mass to the bars. As was stated
Mica sheet was the norm for steel comm insulation.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque electric
James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
G'day John, and all
At 04:45 PM 19/02/06 -0500, John wrote:
>This would be a simple CNC job. Why don't you design one, import the
>design into eMachineShop.com's free CAD/CAM software and see how it
>costs out? Their CAD software costs the job on the fly.
>
>The ultimate design would be an integral comm/shaft, all one piece.
>Nothing to come loose that way.
>
>If I were doing this project, I'd design it to use off-the-shelf bars.
>Lots cheaper that way and a lot easier to repair.
Yes, those are along the ideas that I'm having, but (as always) "the devil
is in the details":-
With what material should the comm segments be insulated from one another
and the clamping cones?
How much copper needs to be 'inside' the cones and at what angle to keep
them there?
I'm sure there are lots of other details I haven't thought of yet, which is
why construction details would be good. I'm not going to take either of the
two motors that I have with steel comms apart just to get the details.
It may be possible to just take an oversized bakelite comm, machine the
ends for cones, machine some cones and conical insulators and put it all
together. Jim Husted, any input on that idea?
Starting from scratch, copper bar machined to the profile of the commutator
bars, then machined into the tapered segments, or machine rings of the
right profile and section them out with a slitting saw (probably need to do
several extra bars or shrink the diameter to the finished size to close up
the gaps).
>On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 08:03:33 +1100, James Massey
> wrote:
>
> >At 10:00 AM 19/02/06 -0800, Jim Husted wrote:
> >>I was informed solidly (as he goes there alot) that "no one" is or has the
> >>ability any longer to make steel comm's even at higher prices at least as
> >>far as these motors go. He suggests that once those comms are gone they
> >>are gone.
> >
> >G'day all
> >
> >Maybe this is an opportunity for a small start-up business for someone with
> >the right tools and background?
> >
> >What does it take to make a steel commutator anyway? As far as I can see,
> >it shouldn't be that complex a job for a half-decent machinist, except for
> >making the tapered commutator segments - but that isn't unsurmountable, I
> >can think of a couple of ways straight off the top of my head.
> >
> >Has anyone got a link to somewhere showing the construction of a steel comm?
> >
> >If not then a description?
---------------------------------
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and used cars.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:03 PM 2/19/2006, you wrote:
At 10:00 AM 19/02/06 -0800, Jim Husted wrote:
I was informed solidly (as he goes there alot) that "no one" is or has
the ability any longer to make steel comm's even at higher prices at
least as far as these motors go. He suggests that once those comms are
gone they are gone.
G'day all
Maybe this is an opportunity for a small start-up business for someone
with the right tools and background?
What does it take to make a steel commutator anyway? As far as I can see,
it shouldn't be that complex a job for a half-decent machinist, except for
making the tapered commutator segments - but that isn't unsurmountable, I
can think of a couple of ways straight off the top of my head.
Has anyone got a link to somewhere showing the construction of a steel comm?
If not then a description?
Regards
James
Best I can come up with at the moment is this.
http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/chap2.htm
About half way down the page, Fig. 2-31
This is part of a series of submarine training manuals, all very interesting.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:19 AM 2/20/2006, you wrote:
At 03:03 PM 2/19/2006, you wrote:
At 10:00 AM 19/02/06 -0800, Jim Husted wrote:
I was informed solidly (as he goes there alot) that "no one" is or has
the ability any longer to make steel comm's even at higher prices at
least as far as these motors go. He suggests that once those comms are
gone they are gone.
G'day all
Maybe this is an opportunity for a small start-up business for someone
with the right tools and background?
What does it take to make a steel commutator anyway? As far as I can see,
it shouldn't be that complex a job for a half-decent machinist, except
for making the tapered commutator segments - but that isn't
unsurmountable, I can think of a couple of ways straight off the top of
my head.
Has anyone got a link to somewhere showing the construction of a steel comm?
If not then a description?
Regards
James
Best I can come up with at the moment is this.
http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/chap2.htm
About half way down the page, Fig. 2-31
This is part of a series of submarine training manuals, all very interesting.
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
Here are some interesting pics of of "little";) generators 4th pic shows a
big comm.
http://web.doe.carleton.ca/~jknight/Power/ChatsFalls/PowerStation_4.html
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congratulations F.T. and all who were there!!!
--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> John,
>
> I got home at 10:30, no problems en route. J.
> Thomas sends greetings to
> Bad Clyde.
>
> F.t.
>
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Date: 2/19/2006 8:52:31 PM
> > Subject: EVs Knock Down two 1st & one 3rd Place
> Trophies at Rod & Custom
> Show!
> >
> > Hello to All,
> >
> > It's been a l-o-n-g weekend! This is just a
> quickie to let everyone
> > know, that much to our complete surprise, all
> three of our racing EVs
> > took home trophies from this weekend's Portland
> Rod & Custom Show.
> >
> > Father Time's electric Legend Car took first in
> its category over some
> > pretty heady gas car competition, and in a field
> of too many racing
> > motorcycles to list, his compact 'Frankendragon'
> electric motorcycle
> > took an impressive 3rd place.
> >
> > White Zombie beat all contenders in the 'Unlimited
> Race' category and
> > won the first place trophy.
> >
> > More to follow after some much needed sleep.
> >
> > See Ya......John Wayland
> >
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: Battery powered Trains, and hybrids
> Hi Bob,
>
> I don't know if you could truly call the Goat a 'full hybrid.' Not only
> can it NOT be plugged in, but the regen uses the same resistor grids as
> all other diesel-electrics, so the energy is wasted as heat. The only
> advantage comes from the fact that they can use a smaller cleaner diesel
> engine.
>
> I was hoping that Metrolink and other heavy commuter rail could use
> these,
> since they stop every two to three miles and spend a lot of time idling.
> But without the ability to recharge through regen, the Goat misses a big
> part of the energy efficiency boat.
>
> Tim
>
> Hi Tim;
Hafta agree with ya on this one. A switcher doesn't go very fast. Most
Diseasel ones only are geared for 50-60MPH, RARELY go anywhere near that
fast 'cept to tow in a dead road job.Rescue service. Never seen any that
were fitted with dynamic brakes. I guess that the Green Goat folks took that
into consideration, as I don't think they have Dynamics? Now to do a
commuter car, regen would be a most important thing as you have to stop
EVery few miles and could recoop some juice for starts. When you get into
where the train or car is going you could have a few hundred feet of 3rd
rail, for it to charge while laying around, or over, crew can go get their
coffee, without having to plug anything in.
Not having to string MILES of catenery or third rail, would put electric
commuter service in the relm of " Let's try it" See if we build it would
anybody come, or (ride)?A startup outfit could try out the idea somewhere
that there are tracks, what American city doesn't have lottsa dead or
abandoned tracks all around. Or like PDX, ya run down the medium of the
interstates. If you're successful you can lay third rail there, so you can
charge as you dust the auto traffic. It is embarrasing to be flying a train
,and EVERYBODY on the highway is passing you! You crank on the amps to at
least pass most of them!!The MAX duz this in PDX, it's great when the Pilot
turns up the amps and ya pass everything! As you float along, wafted along
by 700 volts or so? What's not to love with commuter rail done right?Third
rail in interstate mediums is safely away from the public, as they can be a
danger, but they have been around for 100 years on the Long Island RR and
folks in them thar parts are used to them. After all the song, from the
20's." Take Good Care of Yourself ,You belong to Me" Has the line " Don't
sit on Hornets' Nests- or Third Rails",OOOH OOOH! You have been warned, by
Victrola<g>!
I thought I'd send a link, but after the LAST link thing, I won't. But
it was a great set of pix, I'll save the bandwidth and describe it; What
2.75 a gal gas buys.:A house a HOUSE ,a palace in Emirates land . Sultan
Shekyh Ohh bla diiah of Offyh ,or something like that. Maybe I shoulda
looked on the Christmas card?<G>!? Showing a place with a house with a
livingroon like the grand concourse of Grand Central Station. BATHROOMS
bigger than LOTS in Sol Cal, a silver Audi a8 of REAL polished silver!
Maybe that's what he drives out to the garage in?He had a bunch of Rollses
parked outfront too. No SILVER Rolls? Sheeh! Different lifestyle? Sigh! What
a electric racing team HE could put together?!!
OK? WHO won the Power ball? Anybody on here? Speak up, you can still be
our friends, with 340 Mil you can pop for TWO Zillas and some trainload of
Hawker Areos! Buy up and out Valance for your OWN set of Sapians?AND a place
to work on it. 340 mil, gees! you could build a better copy of an EV -1 or
better yet just BUY GM and restart the line?Throw out the MANAGMENT, save
the blue collar jobs and be an American hero<g>! EVen Micheal Moore would do
the story!
OK. back to the Real World of batteri and chargers.
Seeya, in training
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
NHTSA gave nothing below as far as I know. I searched the NHTSA site and
could only find examples of slow drivers in the fast lane causing trouble.
I still say that my slow driving won't be an idiot magnet. Yes if you drive
slow more people will pass you and you raise the number of idiots that will
pass you but in my congested area the range from lane one to lane 4 is great
& the idiots that pass in the slow lanes are looking for holes in the
traffic. I couldn't find your stats so unless you can quote from the source
it sounds like opinion to me. The only rule I break is driving tired and
usually a bottle of Mountain Dew solves that. Lawrence Rhodes.....Still
driving slow......
You're speeding home from work so you won't be late for dinner with your
friend. You reach for your cell phone and give your friend a call to say you
are running a couple of minutes late. You pass a police car and remember
that one of your brake lights is out. Oh well, you'll get it fixed tomorrow.
In one short drive, you've made three of the ten most common driving
mistakes. Even if you know better than to drink and drive or drive without
wearing a seat belt, chances are you still have some bad driving habits. In
fact, a recent survey commissioned by Drive For Life: The National Safe
Driving Test and Initiative-a group that promotes driver education-reported
that 91% of licensed drivers admit to bad driving habits. These habits range
from speeding to being distracted by cell phones, and are responsible for a
majority of the six million auto accidents that occur each year in the
United States. What are the most common mistakes we make on the road? How
can we avoid them?
The Top Ten Mistakes We Make
According to Drive for Life, the top ten bad driving habits Americans have
are:
1.. Failing to pay attention; "zoning out"
2.. Driving while drowsy
3.. Becoming distracted inside the car (by your radio, cell phone,
children, etc.)
4.. Failing to adjust to adverse weather conditions
5.. Driving aggressively (tailgating, running red lights and stop signs,
etc.)
6.. Making assumptions about other driver's intentions
7.. Speeding
8.. Changing lanes without checking blind spots and mirrors
9.. Driving while upset
10.. Ignoring essential auto maintenance (brake lights, bald tires, etc.)
The Drive for Life survey interviewed 1,100 licensed drivers, age 16 and
older, about their driving habits. The survey found that people between the
ages of 26 and 44 admitted to the most dangerous driving habits. The most
common mistakes these drivers make are ignoring auto maintenance, driving
through red or yellow lights, using a cell phone while driving, reading
while driving, and eating while driving.
Younger and older people make their fair share of driving mistakes, too.
Drivers under 26 were the most likely to speed and neglect to signal before
they turn. Even though seniors tend to drive more carefully than younger
people, 57% admitted to speeding and 39% said they eat while driving.
How You Can Drive More Safely
Do you have bad driving habits? If so, The National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration (NHTSA) has some tips on how to sharpen your driving skills
and make you and those around you safer on the road:
a.. Plan ahead and allow yourself some extra time to get where you are
going. This way, you will be more likely to concentrate on your driving and
less likely to drive aggressively.
b.. Be relaxed when you are behind the wheel. Listen to your favorite
relaxing music, which can calm your nerves and keep you from getting
frustrated when you are driving.
c.. Drive the posted speed limit. If you tend to drive a few miles above
the speed limit, don't. The road is a safer place when everyone is driving
at the same speed.
d.. Find alternate routes to your destination. Even if it is a little bit
out of the way, an alternate route may be less congested and safer.
e.. Take advantage of public transportation. You can avoid having to
navigate through traffic if you let someone else do the driving.
f.. Don't rush to get there on time. Realize that you will be late every
once in a while and avoid driving aggressively.
If you find yourself on the same road as an aggressive driver, the NHTSA
suggests that you do the following:
a.. Get out of the way. When you see a dangerous driver on the road, the
most important thing you can do is get out of their way.
b.. Put your pride aside. Don't challenge an aggressive driver by speeding
up and putting yourself in danger.
c.. Avoid eye contact. Eye contact with aggressive drivers may enrage
them.
d.. Ignore gestures and refuse to return them.
e.. If someone on the road is seriously driving aggressively, call the
police. Just don't forget to pull off the road to a safe place to use your
cell phone.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: Driving 45 mph on the freeway?
I disagree with the opinion that slow vehicles in the right lane pose a
particular hazard. All decent drivers know to expect this.
No offense intended, but this is not an opinion, but a well established
fact. Many accidents are caused by drivers that are going either well
above or well below the average speed of traffic. My parents were both
cops and they hammered the "go with the flow" point home when I was
learning to drive, showing me statistics and studies gathered at the time.
They even taught this fact in Driver's Ed back in the mid 80's (when I was
in high school).
The number one cause of all accidents is reported to be "driver
inattention" according to the NHTSA and if you are going substantially
slower than those around you, you put yourself and others at much greater
risk of collision.
I know it is not happy news, but it is well established in the studies and
crash analysis. Just because you are in the "right" doesn't make you any
less hurt in a crash.
-Ken Trough
V is for Voltage
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mike golub wrote:
> I was wondering if I was trying to charge a 120 Volt
> DC pack, and a got a 10 computer power supplies giving
> 12 volts dc each, could I connect them to charge my
> batteries?
This idea has been discussed many times. If you have the patience, it is
worth looking it up in the EV list archives.
It can work, but it's not as easy as it seems. Here are a few of the
challenges to overcome with these supplies.
- the 12v output is too low to charge a 12v battery (you need 15v)
- the 12v output is poorly regulated
- the ratings are often marketing exaggerations
- they have no charging algorithm, which is hard on batteries
- the outputs are not isolated (share a common ground)
- they often shut down if overloaded, rather than current limit
- most are cheap, poor quality, junk that don't last long in heavy use
- they are not power factor corrected; more than a few at once will
trip the breaker on a 120vac 15amp outlet.
There are workaround for all of these, but you have to ask yourself if
it is worth the trouble.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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