EV digest 5197

Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:11:22 -0800 

                            EV Digest 5197

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Need 48v Charger Advise
        by "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
        by "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: Small Bad Dumb Charger (was: RE: Big ...)
        by "Christopher Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: EV digest 5196
        by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Trains and Power setups
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: OT: major breakthrough in photovoltaics claimed
        by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
        by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) RE: Has anyone tried switching thru series strings of small AGMs to 
maximize range?
        by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) new member
        by "randy gardner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Has anyone tried switching thru series strings of small AGMs to 
maximize range?
        by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Shunts
        by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: EVs Knock Down two 1st & one 3rd Place Trophies at Rod & Custom Show!
        by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: OT: major breakthrough in photovoltaics claimed
        by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: White Zombie to Elude the Police this Saturday!
        by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: new member
        by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
        by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) RE: Shunts
        by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: new member
        by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) RE: new member
        by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
        by "Alan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Shunts
        by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
        by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Dean Kamen's sterling generator,Govenators green website & Robert Q Riley
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message --- 
You can get one for about $50

http://www.poweridestore.com/Hub-Motor-Acces/Battery-Chargers/48V-SLA-Battery-Charger
This guy should also have, but looks like he just redesigned his site and doesn't have it listed yet. 
http://www.eco-riders.com/
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:37 PM
Subject: Need 48v Charger Advise



Hello all,

I have built a recumbent Electric bike with a hub drive motor.  I have
48v of lead acid for the traction pack; however the motor/wheel kit came
with a 36v charger.  The 48v makes for better top speed and increased
range so I want to keep it.  Does anyone have any suggestions for a
smallish charger solution that could be assembled from parts or is
available off shelf for a reasonable price?  Keep in mind that this bike
is built from junk yard parts and a limited budget (intentionally).

Ken Nelson

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
http://www.a123systems.com

What about that? 3 - 5 minute recharge time.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
I am planning to develop a car battery that can be fully charged in 5 minutes. Is there anyone who would like to get involved in this project ?

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Lee Hart wrote:

> The Bonn charger (designed by Don Bonn) is a bad-boy charger with a
few
> manners. The key addition is a big series inductor, in series with the
> input to the bridge rectifier. The inductor filters and limits the
peak
> current, so it won't burn up cords. The inductor also improves the
power
> factor, so you get more charging current out of a given AC outlet. It
> also has a GFCI for safety, an ammeter so you know what you're doing,
> and a timer to automatically shut it off. This may be what you want. I
> can publish the circuit if you need it.

Yes, that would be most helpful.  I'm sure I'm not the only electrical
idiot who could use a cookbook approach to a refined bad-boy.  And yes,
I do know that electrical idiots are the ones most likely to run into
trouble with a bad-boy.  The charger is stupid, so the user *must*
provide the intelligence.

> > Which brings up a problem.  For an EM with all its guts hanging out
> > there inviting finger-pokers, how do you get redundant protection?
> > Two GFIs?
> 
> I would strongly suggest a transformer-isolated charger in this case.
> The only alternative is to thoroughly insulate *everything* as if it
> were connected directly to the AC powerline (because it *is* when you
> use a non-isolated charger)!

I was afraid of that.  Still, a bad-boy (properly used) is a handy tool.
I guess the EM builders will need to find a more appropriate solution.

Chris

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Hi Bob,

You've hit the nail on the head.  Metrolink has mostly F59PH and F59PHI
locomotives, with a couple of F40's bought from Amtrak.  I've seen them
plugged into the 480V 60Hz connections, but they're still idling.


Tim

---
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: Trains and Power setups
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 11:29:51 -0500

   I'll bet Metro Link uses the fairly standard Head End Power setup that
Amtrak seems to have set the standard: 480 volts 60 hz

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Hello Bob,

I hope I don't scare you in how much these Power Anderson plugs cost right 
from the factory.  Not wholesale or even retail.   The ones we used were 480 
volt 3-phase 4 wire with two control pins that operated a size 4 contactors 
that ran 80 hp motors.

These receptacles assemblies which include a female plug that is house in a 
cast aluminum housing that includes a contactor, control transformer, 
circuit breakers and control console ran about $8000.00 completely assemble.

We opt to buy these units pre-assemble which cut the price to half!! by 
using Hoffman Nema 12 enclosures, Square D size 4 contactors, transformer, 
circuit breakers and control switches and only bought the power plugs with 
plug housing from Power Anderson for about $1000.00.

The Power Anderson plug which is a large 4 inch in diameter and 16 inches 
long with a molded on 50 foot 4 wire 4/0 2-inch diameter cable was another 
$2000.00!!!

My EV the Transformer I was charge with a similar type of plug back at EFP 
that came right off a large pad mounted charging station.

Roland


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:29 AM
Subject: Trains and Power setups


>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 12:43 PM
> Subject: Re: EV digest 5191
>
>
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> > That's a FANTASTIC idea.  Run a couple hundred feet of third rail 
> > wherever
> > they park them to top off the batteries (and to let them actually shut
> down
> > the locos; Metrolink appears to idle ALL of their equipment EVERY night
> > while sitting.)  Throw in some regen, and Metrolink could see some
> > substantial savings.
> >   Hi Tim;
>
>     I'll bet Metro Link uses the fairly standard Head End Power setup that
> Amtrak seems to have set the standard: 480 volts 60 hz, made fresh daily
> onboard the locomotive, ether or by two modes, a separate Diseasel , like 
> a
> Cummens alternater setup, it just screams along at a fixed 60hz speed. You
> can buy one of these for your home, albiet 300KW would be a bit of
> overkill<g>!These handle up to 15 cars' "hotel "power, a/c heat an' lites,
> AND those handy seat outlets trains are featuring, nowadaze. Other setup 
> the
> prime mover, diesel engine aboard the loco runs FLAT out, to run a 
> 300-400KW
> alternater at sycronous 60 HZ speeds. This was an anoying feature of the 
> GM
> F -40's, the damn lokie was running FULL Speed standing still!Of course 
> this
> raises hell with your gas miliage! > GM thought of this, too, they had a
> "Standby " mode where a fast idle with the MAIN alternater, used for
> traction power had a tap off BEFORE the rectiflfyer, diode, banks,So it
> would be a hellova lot quieter. when parked. Of course you couldn't move 
> the
> loco in this mode.The New GE'S that Amtrak is using now ,do the same
> thing.Amtrak got rid of the F-40 fleet, but they soldier on with various
> commuter outfits. Noisy, hard riding, but sheer willing power they found
> fans everywhere. I put zillions of miles in blizzards to Fla like 100 
> degree
> weather, "they do run run run they do run run" line from a rock song of
> years ago!They cared little about outside conditions. The Lexus of Locos!
>
>     The OTHER great feature with the 480 60 HZ was that the train can plug
> into shore power! When train is laying over, for the night, can be plugged
> in and the Diseasel can be shut down, if the weather is warm.In fact
> Amtrak's operating rules specify when and how to do it.So if you check out
> major stations;PDX, LA Chicago, where trains hang around, take a walk up 
> to
> the far end of the platform, where the lokies usually sit. You will see
> massive 4 ought cables laying around wioth the big round :"Plugs" The 
> Female
> ones are on the Plugitin cord. Pick it up, look down it's throat.It's  OK
> they are dead! To make them work they have to be plugged into a completed
> circuit BEFORE power can be applied! You will see 6 pins, 3 for the heavy
> 480 and 3 small ones for the "Trainline Complete" circuit. Trainline
> complete pilot pins are shorter than the power ones, so they HAVE to be in
> all the way before power can be applied. I worked with these Anderson 
> Power
> Peoducts stuff and why I'm dragging them into the comversation, I feel 
> that
> they would be IDEAL for dump charging EV's. Able to stand 400-500 amps,
> relatively easy to handle, if yur my size<g>!All kidding aside, smaller 
> guyz
> and galz handle these things EVeryday. as Amtrak is an equal opportunity
> employer! A simple male one could be mounted under the hood to keep it
> clean, about the size of a round Coke can, they wouldn't be hard to fit
> SOMEWHERE in a car. Being as there are THOUSANDS of RR cars fitted with
> these things 8 to a car, they are a production item. I don't know HOW
> much,$$ new. I have obtained a few from the Junk yard guy, where RR cars 
> go
> to die. Lots of nice cable lays about too, as the junkies are more
> interested in TONS of stainless steel, than copper entrails.
>
>     Just a few hy power thoughts, in training.
>
>    Seeya
>
>   Bob
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Lee Hart wrote:
>> I'm sorry; it reads like pure unadulturated hype. No verifiable facts
>> or data at all.

Mike Ellis wrote:
> In what? His journal articles or in IOL:SA article?

The news article at the IOL:SA link in the original posting.

Subsequents posts on this topic *have* provided actual factual data. The
ones you quoted *do* provide real information, and so is far more
believable than the news article.

As an aside, that IOL:SA article is typical of so much of the "news"
stories we see. They contain virtually no news or information at all! It
boils down to "somebody did something somewhere that they claim is a
revolutionary breakthrough." That's not news; It's gossip!

Ok; back to what they are claiming. It appears they are working on
fabricating thin-film solar cells with alloys of copper, indium,
selenium, and gallium. I'm sure this is possible, because we already
have examples of copper oxide, selenium, and gallium solar cells. But
all these materials have been generally found to be inferior to silicon.

And, we already have thin-film solar cells, produced on ordinary glass
substrates. They are certainly cheap, since they are widely used in
calculators and other solar-powered gadgets. They are also silicon
based.

So the key point is whether these folks can find a new way to make some
old, inferior, more expensive materials actually work out better or
cheaper than silicon solar cells. This point is not addressed in either
the news or the technical articles. Nor CAN it be at this point, because
it is still a research project; I'm sure that cost and practicality
don't matter yet.

It's the sort of development that's interesting to other researchers in
the field, but won't matter to the rest of us for another 5-10 years.
That's how long it's likely to take to find out if these materials and
techniques are actually useful, or just an interesting dead end.
-- 
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in    --    Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 

On Feb 21, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Alan wrote:
I am planning to develop a car battery that can be fully charged in 5 minutes. Is there anyone who would like to get involved in this project ?
As you likely already know, the problem is not the battery, it's the charging infrastructure. We have lively discussions periodically on the list, talking about many aspects of rapid charging.
Rich Rudman is spending much time and money on building rapid chargers for ordinary lead-acid batteries and appears to be having good success. 





--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Mark Freidberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>   Except that each string regenerate a little during the 2/3 
> of the time that the other two strings are discharging. So 
> when the rotary switch comes back around for a 2nd pass thru 
> the 3 strings, there would be a bit more runtime added. Then 
> a little more on the 3rd pass, etc. That's my guess-estimate 
> anyway......

The key word here is "bit", as in "tiny bit" ;^>

Remember, 2/3 of the time is still just 20min (and that is to 100%
DOD!), so you deplete the first string in 10min, then let it rest for
20min.  I seriously doubt that you would get as much as 1-2Ah more from
a U1 AGM after letting it rest for 20min, but this is an easy experiment
to perform with a single U1 battery if you really want to get an idea of
how much capacity recovery can be achieved with such an AGM.

I don't have any U1s handy, but I am actually running a discharge test
on some T105-sized (~213Ah) AGMs at the moment, so I'll let them rest
for 20-30min after they hit 1.75V/cell and then I'll restart the 75A
discharge and see how much additional capacity I get.  I'll post the
result later today, or more likely, tomorrow.

Cheers,

Roger.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- hi, i'm new to the site and have a lot of questions to ask, but that can wait for a little while. I don't know very much, that's why i'm here, so don't be surprised if I have really stupid questions. thanks 

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 

On Feb 21, 2006, at 11:12 AM, Mark Freidberg wrote:
.........But who knows? Maybe under certain conditions, Peukert's effect wouldn't apply, just like Newton's equations aren't accurate above 0.5c.
Peukert's only applies to lead acid batteries, so perhaps other (more lightweight) battery chemistries would work better. So there's hope.
Of course, other battery chemistries are generally much more expensive or have other serious difficulties. Easier than reaching half of lightspeed, though :) 




--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
(read subject line like an explicative)
I have a nice 1200A-50mv shunt and I have a nice 1200A-50mv ampmeter
(yet to install.)

But I just bought a link 1000 and it comes with a shunt( what a waste,
why not let you program mv/amp) , It is a 500Amp-50mv shunt and is kinda
small.

I would feel stupid having 2 shunts in series, Or would I? at such low
voltages and currents, can I put both gauge and link1000 on same shunt
accurately?

Would there be a way of using an opamp to "adapt" the mv signal for the
link while connecting direct to gauge?

Or, save that shunt for the motor loop and just put the link1000 on amp
display? Although I have current limit set for 400 amps and a 400 amp
fuse, I seem to remember going to 1200Amp because I didn't want to heat
up the 500 amp shunt and loose accuracy over the years.

Would buying a 100mv 1000A shunt been the ticket?

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Congratz, Plasmaboy and Father Time. Those vehicles were
likely seen by thousands of people. A 12 second all-electric
street car? It's no surprise that it took first place. You
had the only one. <g>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm sorry; it reads like pure unadulturated hype. No verifiable facts or data at all. It reads exactly like what someone writes to promote a stock swindle.
That's why we do not rely on journalists to publish scientific data. A two second dig uncovers the underlying tech in numerous physics journals. That's the real meat of course. 

-Ken Trough
V is for Voltage
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 

Roderick Wilde wrote:

How come no one else has a life this insane? What do you eat for breakfast?
I want some! Actually I have always said that reality is far stranger than
fiction.


I think you may have hit the nail right on the head Rod.
John is really into his breakfast, he actually has a photo album of his breakfast plates :^D 

Breakfast is the key!

...




Roy LeMeur  Olympia, WA

My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html

Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Welcome, Randy.  Don't worry, though.  I've been on the list for over a year
and am still asking stupid questions!  There's already a lot of info in the
archives, so you might want to search there before posting.

Bill Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of randy gardner
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 1:00 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: new member

hi, i'm new to the site and have a lot of questions to ask, but that can 
wait for a little while. I don't know very much, that's why i'm here, so 
don't be surprised if I have really stupid questions. thanks

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to 
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- No conventional battery can be charged in 5 min no matter what you do with it. Many scientists have been working on how to make a battery which can charge faster but there are tough physical limitations. That is, it's not like this hasn't been done because nobody's tried.
There is a new type of lithium battery which is supposed to be able to charge at extraordinarily high rates but they're not really on the market yet, much less in a large and affordable cell. 

Danny

Alan wrote:


I am planning to develop a car battery that can be fully charged in 5 minutes. 
Is there anyone who would like to get involved in this project ?

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I have a nice 1200A-50mv shunt and I have a nice 1200A-50mv 
> ampmeter (yet to install.)
> 
> But I just bought a link 1000 and it comes with a shunt( what 
> a waste, why not let you program mv/amp) , It is a 
> 500Amp-50mv shunt and is kinda small.
> 
> I would feel stupid having 2 shunts in series, Or would I? at 
> such low voltages and currents, can I put both gauge and 
> link1000 on same shunt accurately?

The only answer without trying it to see is "maybe".

You might be better off using the 1200A shunt with the 1200A meter and
the 500A shunt with the Link1000.  You could, for instance, install the
1200A shunt and meter in the motor loop and leave the 500A shunt and
Link1000 on the battery loop.

> Although I have current limit set 
> for 400 amps and a 400 amp fuse, I seem to remember going to 
> 1200Amp because I didn't want to heat up the 500 amp shunt 
> and loose accuracy over the years.

I don't think you need to worry particularly about this.  IIRC, Deltec
recommends not operating their shunts over 70% of the nominal rating
continuously as they can overheat and permanently shift, however, most
EVs don't operate at even 400A for more than a few seconds at a time,
which the shunt can handle just fine.  Even the occasional excursion to
1000A or beyond is unlikely to bother the 500A Deltec shunt since it is
unlikely to last more than a couple of seconds.  Also, the shift might
be large enough to be of concern in a laboratory setting but compeletely
negligible in our EVs.  I think when this subject came up a while ago
Otmar said he'd been using a 500A Deltec shunt with his Z2K CaPope and
it was still working fine despite having heated to the point of
discolouring...

If you are drag racing, and expect to hold 1000A+ for upwards of 10s at
a time, you might want to upgrade the stock 500A Deltec shunt for one of
the heavier duty units offered, for instance, by EV Parts.  It is still
a 500A 50mV shunt, but it is physically larger and capable of handling
the higher dissipation associated with high currents.

> Would buying a 100mv 1000A shunt been the ticket?

Sure, that would also work.

Cheers,

Roger.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Since 1994 myself and still going stupid!

-Mike


On 2/21/06, Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Welcome, Randy.  Don't worry, though.  I've been on the list for over a
> year
> and am still asking stupid questions!

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Check out the FAQ:  http://www.evparts.com/faq/  


Victoria, BC, Canada
 
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of randy gardner
Sent: February 21, 2006 12:00 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: new member

hi, i'm new to the site and have a lot of questions to ask, but that can
wait for a little while. I don't know very much, that's why i'm here, so
don't be surprised if I have really stupid questions. thanks

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Danny

Thanks for your informative e-mail. I am aware of the limitations of fast
charging conventional batteries. A few years ago I was involved in
developing revolutionary electrochemical processes. This experience has
helped me develop some unconventional approaches to the design of super fast
charging batteries. I plan  to test these approaches. Before I start I am
researching the potential markets, partners, funding sources and other
interested parties.

Thanks again.

Alan White



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes


> No conventional battery can be charged in 5 min no matter what you do
> with it.  Many scientists have been working on how to make a battery
> which can charge faster but there are tough physical limitations.  That
> is, it's not like this hasn't been done because nobody's tried.
>
> There is a new type of lithium battery which is supposed to be able to
> charge at extraordinarily high rates but they're not really on the
> market yet, much less in a large and affordable cell.
>
> Danny
>
> Alan wrote:
>
> >I am planning to develop a car battery that can be fully charged in 5
minutes. Is there anyone who would like to get involved in this project ?
> >
> >
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
At 02:11 PM 2/21/2006, you wrote:

(read subject line like an explicative)
I have a nice 1200A-50mv shunt and I have a nice 1200A-50mv ampmeter
(yet to install.)

But I just bought a link 1000 and it comes with a shunt( what a waste,
why not let you program mv/amp) , It is a 500Amp-50mv shunt and is kinda
small.

I would feel stupid having 2 shunts in series, Or would I? at such low
voltages and currents, can I put both gauge and link1000 on same shunt
accurately?

Would there be a way of using an opamp to "adapt" the mv signal for the
link while connecting direct to gauge?

Or, save that shunt for the motor loop and just put the link1000 on amp
display? Although I have current limit set for 400 amps and a 400 amp
fuse, I seem to remember going to 1200Amp because I didn't want to heat
up the 500 amp shunt and loose accuracy over the years.

Would buying a 100mv 1000A shunt been the ticket?
Put the 1200 amp shunt and meter in the motor loop and the 500 amp shunt and link1000 in the battery loop. 
Then add an analog volt meter to show the motor voltage.


__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
It already exist, my son have one with a tiny capacitor on it...
sorry i couldn't resist
:^)

charging fast is easy, i tested succefully charging near 80% some 24V14Ah
(2S2P) AGM batteries in less than 10 minutes...

BUT charging to 100% in such delay is more, hum...problematic.

cordialement,
Philippe

Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
 http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes


> I am planning to develop a car battery that can be fully charged in 5
minutes. Is there anyone who would like to get involved in this project ?
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 1:38 PM
Subject: [ETList] Digest Number 1234



There are 3 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

     1. Dean Kamen's electricity for the world's poor
          From: Remy Chevalier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
     2. Governor's Green California Website
          From: Remy Chevalier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
     3. Robert Q. Riley Enterprises
          From: Remy Chevalier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
  Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:37:12 -0500
  From: Remy Chevalier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Dean Kamen's electricity for the world's poor

From:
http://business2.blogs.com/business2blog/2006/02/dean_kamens_lat.html#more
via: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/02/dean_kamen_sequ.php

Dean Kamen's Newest Slingshot

Originally uploaded by Allen Ra. (Below is a longer version of a
CNNMoney.com column I just wrote on Dean Kamen's latest inventions: two
machines that can produce clean water and electricity for the world's poor. 
It includes some details about his frustrations with the World Bank and UN
that were cut for space):

Dean Kamen, the engineer who invented the Segway, is puzzling over a new
kind of equation these days.  An estimated 1.1 billion people in the world
don't have access to clean drinking water, and an estimated 1.6 billion don't 
have electricity.

The numbers may be daunting, but Kamen thinks he can help solve these twin
Goliath problems. "I thought the moral of the David and Goliath story was
this little guy won because he had a really neat piece of technology," says 
Kamen.  In other words, it wasn't David who brought down Goliath.  It was
the slingshot.
Kamen's slingshots are a pair of machines he's invented-each about the size 
of a washing machine -that can provide power and clean water in rural
villages.

"If you could take all the diseases you could name,  80 percent would be
wiped out if you just gave people clean water," says Kamen. "This [water
purifier] makes 1,000 liters of clean water a day, and we don't care what
goes into it.  And that [power generator] makes a kilowatt off of anything
that burns."

Entrepreneurial power

Kamen is not alone in his quest.  He's been joined by Iqbal Quadir, the
founder of Grameen Phone, the largest cell phone company in Bangladesh. Last 
year, Quadir took prototypes of Kamen's power machines to two villages in
his home country for a six-month field trial.  The trial, which ended last
September, sold Quadir on the technology. "This is a reliable machine," he 
says.

In fact, Quadir thinks it is reliable enough that he is negotiating to
license the technology from Kamen through a startup called Emergence Energy 
in Cambridge, Mass., and is trying to raise $30 million to start producing
the power machines.
The electric generator in the power machine is based on a Stirling engine, a 
clean-burning combustion engine which has long fascinated Kamen. Best of
all, it can be powered by an easily-obtained local fuel: cow dung. Each
machine produces a kilowatt of electricity.  That may not sound like much,
but it is enough for 70 energy-efficient light bulbs. As Kamen puts it, "If 
you judiciously use a kilowatt, each villager can have a nighttime."

Take a look at a satellite picture of the earth at night, and you will see
whole swaths of darkness across Southeast Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. For the people living there, a simple light bulb would mean an extension of 
both productive and leisure hours.  In fact, some of the villagers in the
trial in Bangladesh used the electricity to power TVs that they were
previously juicing off car batteries.

The real invention here, though, may be the economic model that Kamen and
Quadir hope to use to distribute the machines.  It is fashioned after
Grameen Phone's business, where village entrepreneurs (mostly women) are
given micro-loans to purchase a cell phone and service. The women, in turn, 
charge other villagers to make calls.

"We have 200,000 rural entrepreneurs who are selling telephone services in
their communities," notes Quadir: "The vision is to replicate that in
electricity."

During the trial in Bangladesh, Kamen's Stirling machines created three
entrepreneurs in each village: one to run the machine and sell the
electricity, one to collect dung from local farmers and sell it to the first 
entrepreneur, and a third to lease out light bulbs (and presumably, in the
future, other appliances) to the villagers.

"I don't like the charitable model," says Quadir.  "Poor countries are
supposedly poor because they have a scarcity of capital.  So if there is a
scarcity of capital," he reasons, "you should find an efficient way to spend 
it."  The most efficient way he can think of is through capitalism.

Kamen thinks the same approach can work with his water-cleaning machine,
which he calls-there's David and Goliath again-the Slingshot. While the
Slingshot wasn't part of Quadir's trial in Bangladesh, Kamen thinks it can
be distributed the same way. "In the 21st century, water will be delivered
at the point of use by an entrepreneur," predict Kamen.

The Slingshot works by taking in contaminated water, even raw sewage, and
separating out the clean water by vaporizing it.  It then shoots the
remaining sludge back out a plastic tube.  Kamen thinks it could be paired
with the power machine and run off its waste heat.

Cold reception in Washington

Before Kamen met Quadir, he took his inventions to places like the United
Nations and the World Bank, part of whose stated goals are to improve access 
to power and water in the world's poorest nations.  He says he met nothing
but skepticism among the experts who told him there were much cheaper and
better ways to make power and clean water. He describes these encounters as 
"the most chilling meetings I ever had in Washington."
During one such encounter, Kamen lost his cool and blurted out: "Okay, you've 
had 60 years and spent $1 trillion on these two issues.  Can you point to
the places where you are proud of the success you've had?" The meeting didn't 
get much farther than that.

Says Kamen, "If you are going to wait for governments or NGOs
[non-governmental organizations] to change the world, it is going to take
another 60 years."

Jamal Saghir, the World Bank's director of energy and water, says he is
unaware of any meetings that might have taken place with Kamen. "We get a
lot of requests from inventors to endorse their products," says Saghir. "The 
World Bank does not support proprietary technology.  We support developing
country governments and empower them to make choices."

What Kamen is really railing against, though, is the conventional wisdom
that governments need to build huge, centralized power plants or water
sanitation facilities to economically address the problems at hand.  That
centralized approach might result in a lower cost per kilowatt or per clean 
liter of water, but it also requires a lot of capital, a lot of expertise,
and a lot of pipes and wires.
His approach, by contrast, has the virtue of simplicity. He even created an instruction sheet to go with each Slingshot. It contains one step: Just add 
water, any water.  Step two might be: add an entrepreneur.

"Not required are engineers, pipelines, epidemiologists, or
microbiologists," says Kamen.  "You don't need any -ologists.  You don't
need any building permits, bribery, or bureaucracies."

The price of freedom

Still, even if some of the technical challenges have been solved ("I know
the technology works and I'd fall on my sword to prove it," insists Kamen), 
the economic challenges still loom.
Kamen's goal is to produce machines that cost $1,000 to $2,000 each. That's a far cry from the $100,000 that each hand-machined prototype cost. Quadir 
cautions that a lot more trials and work is necessary: "The price of the
machines will dictate at what cost we can sell electricity." But nobody-not 
him, not Kamen- really knows yet what it will cost to mass-produce the
machines.
Quadir would like to find out by setting up a factory in Bangladesh. If the 
economics work out, not only does he think that the decentralized approach
will be good business.  He also thinks it will be good public policy.
Instead of putting in a 500-megawatt power plant in a developing country, he 
argues, it would be much better to place 500,000 one-kilowatt power plants
in villages all over the place because then you would create 500,000
entrepreneurs.

"Isn't that better for democracy?" Quadir asks.  "We see a shortage of
democracy in the world, and we are surprised.  If you strengthen the
economic hands of people, you will foster real democracy."

Lights, water, freedom-that would be some slingshot

Posted by Erick Schonfeld on Feb 16 at 10:31 AM in Innovation & Startups,
Politics & Policy | Permalink

Comments
I met Iqbal Quadir several times now and I am fascinated by his perspective of the world. He is an amazing entrepreneur and has revolutionized telephony 
in Bangladesh through his start-up Grameen Phone.
His strength is connecting the disconnected in order to create change. Again 
he is attempting to connect local entrepreneurship with the basic need of
energy! I wrote about Iqbal (though not Dean) on my blog:

http://business-model-design.blogspot.com/2005/10/innovative-business-model-design.html
I am totally convinced that this project will have a much bigger impact than 
most of the projects the World Bank has come up with for the simple reason
that they don't totally embrace local ownership of responses to development 
issues!

Posted by: Alex Osterwalder | Feb 16, 2006 5:05:49 PM
I love the way Mr. Kamen thinks and the significant world problems he would 
like to fix such as the water and electricity .I ran filtration
companies,started my own filter company,created machines to remove arsenic
from water,developed and patented filter making machine so I know
if Kamen stays with it he will suceed in coming up with a disruptive
technology to give
anybody clean safe drinking water.







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
  Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:55:44 -0500
  From: Remy Chevalier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Governor's Green California Website

From:
http://www.green.ca.gov/newsevents.htm

February 8, 2006

SCHWARZENEGGER ADMINISTRATION UNVEILS
"GREEN CALIFORNIA" WEB SITE
SACRAMENTO - Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's administration today unveiled a sweeping new "Green California" Web site, based on his vision of an energy 
efficient and environmentally friendly California.

http://www.green.ca.gov
green@ dgs.ca.gov

The new Web site is filled with ideas, guidelines, reference materials,
engineering data and environmentally friendly purchasing information to
assist state and local government agencies and California businesses with
the shift toward environmental sustainability, energy conservation and the
reduction of landfill waste.

"We believe this new Web site will become the primary "go to" site - the
new, centralized, electronic reference library - for engineers, architects, 
building managers, contractors, purchasing agents and other business and
government officials and environmentalists in their quest for a Green
California,'" said State and Consumer Services Agency Secretary Rosario
Marin. "It will be a constantly expanding resource, as more and more links, Web pages and data are added. We believe it will demonstrate with facts and 
figures that environmentally smart business decisions can also save big
bucks, while making life healthier for all of us."

The site, www.green.ca.gov, is focused primarily on two broad areas. It
provides, in a single location, vital reference materials for the design,
construction, benchmarking and operation of "green buildings." It also
provides government and business purchasing officials with detailed
information on environmentally friendly products and services, such as
office supplies, paper products, office machines, vehicle supplies, building 
materials, medical supplies, etc.

In a December 2004 executive order, Governor Schwarzenegger launched an
aggressive action plan to reduce California's energy purchases for the
thousands of state-owned buildings by 20 percent by 2015, while conserving
other scarce natural resources. The executive order also urged local
governments, K-12 schools, universities, community colleges and business
organizations to adopt the same ambitious goals. The new Web site provides
vital reference material and "how to do it" guidelines to implement that
vision.

The governor proposed to achieve the 20 percent energy reduction by
designing, constructing, operating and renovating state-owned buildings to
meet the high standards of the U.S. Green Building Council's Leadership in
Energy and Environmental Design silver rating ("LEED Silver") and by leasing 
office space in buildings with a federal "Energy Star" rating - both of
which are explained on the Web site. He also directed the State Architect in 
the California Department of General Services to adopt guidelines to
encourage California schools built with state funds to be resource and
energy efficient.

In the private sector, the governor pointed out that commercial buildings
use 36 percent of California's electricity and account for a large
percentage of greenhouse gas emissions, raw material consumption and waste. 
By adopting the practices outlined in his executive order, Schwarzenegger
said, California could save $2 billion of the $12 billion in electricity
consumed every year by the state's commercial and institutional buildings.
California law now requires all departments of state government to practice EnvironmentalIy Preferable Purchasing (EPP), buying goods and services that 
have a reduced impact on human health and the environment. The "Green
California" Web site includes a complete online version of the EPP Best
Practices Manual. Among other things, it shows officials how to write
environmental specifications into their bid solicitations.

NEWS MEDIA CALLS ONLY:
DGS Office of Public Affairs
916-376-5038
Bill Branch or Matt Bender

The Ziggurat
707 Third Street
West Sacramento, CA 95605
(916) 376-5000 Fax (916) 376-5018






________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
  Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:59:55 -0500
  From: Remy Chevalier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Robert Q. Riley Enterprises

From:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/02/please_lord_bui_1.php

December 12, 2005 - Jacob Gordon, Los Angeles, CA

As we wait for more electric vehicles, hybrids, and small, efficient cars,
as well as bemoan the execution of EVs by their very makers, we should
remind ourselves that matters can always be taken into our own hands.
Do-it-yourself car building has always enjoyed a following, but it does seem 
that the 70s and 80s saw a golden age of ingenuity and innovation in DIY
jalopy workshops. I stumbled across a trove of plans for such project cars, many published in Popular Mechanics and Mechanix Illustrated, many of which 
are still available for purchase. A majority of these designs strive for
high efficiency and low emissions; and talk about style! The car builders of 
today have so clearly lost their way and could learn a thing or two.

Hacking your Prius is one thing, but building a "100 mpg hybrid-electric"
Towncar (lower right) from scratch is something else entirely. Volkswagen's GX3 pales in comparison to the 3-wheeled electric Trimuter (lower left), or 
the Tri-Magnum (upper center). The Centurion (lower center), with its
3-cylinder diesel engine, boasts an impressive 128 mpg, and in overdrive can reach speeds of 65 mph. With bodies of fiberglass and chassis swiped from VW 
and Subaru, you are sure to get a unique ride. And seeing as several of
these cars were, fittingly, extras in Total Recall, Arnold might have a soft spot in his now-even-greener heart for their future/retro design aesthetic. 

+++
Robert Q. Riley Enterprises is a full-service product design and development 
consultancy, specializing in transportation, recreation, fitness, and
medical products. The "DIY... Plans & Projects" area showcases the world's 
finest projects that you can build from plans.  Network with others using
the "DIY Forum."  Download free software and plans.  Get technical and
how-to information on intellectual property, one-off construction
techniques, automotive design, and alternative energy technologies.

Robert Q. Riley Enterprises
P.O. Box 14465
Phoenix, AZ 85063
623-872-8010 Fax:  623-872-3476

Media Contact
Robert Q. Riley
rqriley@ rqriley.com







________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________


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