EV Digest 5201
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Using an AC rated fuse in DC.
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Fwd: Load testing EV components
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Has anyone tried switching thru series strings of small AGMs to
maximize range?
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
by "Alan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Dragtimes Vote
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Using an AC rated fuse in DC.
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Killacycle nearly in the top 10
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Dean Kamen's sterling generator, Govenators green website & Robert Q
Riley
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Dragtimes Vote
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Load testing EV components
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Dean Kamen's sterling generator, Govenators green website & Robert Q
Riley
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Load testing EV components
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Dragtimes Vote
by "Chris Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Zivan exorcised, ? about ZA22D power board comm
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Dragtimes Vote
by "James McKethen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Has anyone tried switching thru series strings of small AGMs to
maximize range?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Dean Kamen's sterling generator, Govenators green website
& Robert Q Riley
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Dean Kamen's sterling generator, Govenators green website & Robert Q
Riley
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Dean Kamen's sterling generator, Govenators green website & Robert Q
Riley
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Dean Kamen's sterling generator, Govenators green website &
Robert Q Riley
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) EV stuff on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Generator Swap
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Try it and see. Connect your pack through a contactor to your
candidate fuse. Energize the contactor and see what happens. Odds
are, the fuse will work just fine. There has been great emphasis in
the last decade or so for fuses to interrupt faults in less-than-cycle
intervals. That means the fuse cannot rely on zero crossing of the AC
signal to extinguish the arc. Typically there is a filler surrounding
the fuse element that has arc quenching properties.
If the fuse does "fail", it will probably be a burst cartridge. It
will still probably interrupt the circuit but will be
damaged/destroyed and might damage surrounding stuff with shrapnel. A
shield around the holder (preferably polycarb plastic) will protect
from that.
This is the approach that I took with my 72 volt Citi. I'm using a
400 amp service entrance fuse (can't recall the designation without
going out and looking but it's what is sold for 400 amp service
entrance fused disconnects). I tested it in the manner described
above. Appeared normal. Maybe a little bit more gas expulsion than
on AC but the cartridge remained intact and no external signs of
heating. I used 2-0 welding cables as my jumpers so there was no
dearth of fault current. Not sure how much since it pegged my 2000
amp ammeter but plenty to blow the fuse RIGHT NOW.
(Please don't anyone go out and grab a 400 amp fuse and use it just
because I said it worked for me. Ya gotta test first.)
John
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:10:26 -0500, Christopher Zach
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Ok, I know this is normally bad. However I cannot seem to find a source
>for Bussman KLM-1 type fuses (10k AIR rated DC/AC, 500 volts). The only
>thing sold that I can find is the KTK type fuses (100k AIR RMS, AC, 600
>volts).
>
>300 volt battery, Hawker Genesis. This is to protect the Dolphin.
>
>Is a 100k AC rated fuse going to clear a 1 amp short? If not, anyplace I
>can get KLM type fuses?
>
>Chris
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm wanting to do some higher-current load tests (up to 12V / 50A
> (600W), for now), and I'm wondering what people are using for load
> cells.
How about a UPS? I have an old one from the office that had a bad battery. It's
rated to handle
the wattage, just plug in enough lights to get the load you need. I don't know
what the
relationship between what it's drwaing from the batteries and what it's
supplying to the outlets
is though. Any reaosn this wouldn't work?
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David:
I don't mean to be critical, Mark, but you're dismissing the advice of a couple
of very knowledgeable and experienced people.
I'm sorry if that's the way it sounded. I actually enjoyed reading both of
their replies.
But if you're convinced you're right, try it!
Not at all. It just seemed like the runtime might be slightly more then 30
minutes, perhaps a minor point worth noting.
Buy the batteries, build the car, set it up your way, run it, and record your
range. Then rewire it using the more usual approach of 3 parallel packs. Run
as nearly as possible the same range test, and see which system does better.
I'm afraid I have more then enough to do just upgrading my EVs to daily
driver status. It is quite clear that list members can really help each other
out if they want to. For which I am very appreciative.
Then we can all benefit from >your< experience, too.
Well hopefully one day I'll have enough experience to be able to contribute
in a meaningful way. It may be way too early now though. The last thing I want
to do is run afoul of list elders........
Best regards,
Mark Freidberg
David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 21 Feb 2006 at 11:12, Mark Freidberg wrote:
> Except that each string regenerate a little during the 2/3 of the time that
> the other two strings are discharging.
I don't mean to be critical, Mark, but you're dismissing the advice of a
couple of very knowledgeable and experienced people.
But if you're convinced you're right, try it! Buy the batteries, build the
car, set it up your way, run it, and record your range. Then rewire it
using the more usual approach of 3 parallel packs. Run as nearly as
possible the same range test, and see which system does better. Then report
back to us. Then we can all benefit from >your< experience, too.
BTW, don't forget to document how much all those contactors cost. ;-)
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden
Thanks for your valuable comments.
I have looked at developing the 5 minute recharge battery as a big
breakthrough that would help to make EV's viable. Your comments regarding
infrastructure issues would still need to be addressed. As I live in the UK
where there are many millions of fossil fuel vehicles on a tiny island and
high petrol prices... I believe that it is worth developing further.
Your chat forum is very impressive.
best wishes
Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
> On 21 Feb 2006 at 14:26, Danny Miller wrote:
>
> > No conventional battery can be charged in 5 min no matter what you do
> > with it.
>
> That depends on the capacity of the battery! In most cases charging EV
> batteries in the 15 - 20 minute range isn't at all unrealistic, IF you
don't
> try to charge them to 100% (80% is the limit) and IF you monitor their
> temperature carefully.
>
> Five minutes? Maybe. Now you are starting to see challenges in power
> available. To charge a 25 kWh EV battery from 20% to 80% requires 15 kWh.
> Let's assume 90% efficiency from mains to battery, not out of line at all
> for that SOC range even though some energy is always lost to heat. To add
> 16.66 kWh in 5 minutes requires a power source capable of providing 200 kW
> for that 5 minutes. This is equivalent to the full electrical capacity of
> about four average fairly new homes.
>
> This obviously isn't impossible with 3-phase industrial power, and in fact
> fast charging is currently done in some plants where EVs are used all day.
> It's not hard to bring up the pack on a burden carrier during the
operator's
> break.
>
> But now imagine charging 10 or 12 road EVs at once, as might easily happen
> someday at a charging station. Drivers are apt to "gas up" during the
day,
> so offpeak capacity doesn't help at all. Timeshifting that much load gets
> pricey, so it's not hard to imagine the quick and (literally) dirty
solution
> - a honkin' big diesel generator out back. And now we're kind of back to
> where we started from.
>
> If we are going to hope for widespread adoption of EVs, I think we have to
> look very hard at coordinated infrastructure development to support them.
> I'm not holding my breath for either one. In the meantime, the most
> practical and useful charging system remains the one that can replace
> overnight the energy the driver typically uses daily.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
> To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
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>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Audi guy could be the sys admin for a data warehousing firm with
easy access to an array of computers that all have different IP
addresses. So he could be dumping the votes that way.
You have to have alot of friends all voting at the same time to do a
600 vote dump overnight. Unless the ADL (Audi Discussion List) has a
bigger following then us. He's up to something.
Chip
From: Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:32:23 PM US/Eastern
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Dragtimes Vote
FYI the Audi S4 is back at it again with a 600 vote overnight dump. It
had 2874 votes as ot 10 pm last night and jump to 3384 by this morning.
I vote daily to keep this going but if this guy is going to move so
many votes in 12 hours I don't know how the EV's are going to keep ahead
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 01:58:49PM -0500, Christopher Zach wrote:
> The problem is this: AC breakers and fuses are designed to break AC
> loads. This is apparently not too hard as the voltage on an AC line
> swings to zero a certain number of times per second. Thus the arcs tend
> to self-extinguish.
Is this why high power DC breakers are so huge and expensive?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
The Audi has really bumped up so fast he has
to be doing something other than different people voting.
I've found out that you can vote at least
twice a day, probably every 4 hrs or so.
>Here is a direct voting link:
>
>http://www.dragtimes.com/voteprocess.php?slipID=7621
>
>Here are direct links to the other electric vehicles.
>
>Click all these links every day on any computer you use.
>
>http://www.dragtimes.com/voteprocess.php?slipID=7484
>
>http://www.dragtimes.com/voteprocess.php?slipID=7382
>
>http://www.dragtimes.com/voteprocess.php?slipID=7519
These didn't work this time but I got in with these
below links, the above links are faster so try them first.
http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda-RX-7-Timeslip-7519.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Datsun-1200-Timeslip-7484.html
http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-240SX-Timeslip-7382.html
Jerry Dycus
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:00:32 -0600, "Mike Ellis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I agree the segway was an over-hyped launch. But Kaman actually has made
>some products that have greatly improved the lives of others.
>
>-wearable infusion pump
>-wearable insulin pump
He wasn't the first on either of these. I'm a diabetic and am
intimately familiar with the tools of the trade. .... Damn, I brain
farted. I had the name of the first one on the tip of my tongue and
it slipped off. It was a huge, dumb thing but a vast improvement for
brittle Type I diabetics.
>-home dialysis machine
>-wheelchair that climbs stairs, raises the user to standing height, works on
>unpaved surfaces.
Is that wheelchair actually being made? My mom could use one if it
is. I've looked before and could never find anything more than the
hype.
>
>And if they can get the price of that kilowatt stirling generator down to
>that $1000 price point, I'm buying one for the cottage!
Yeah, me too. I'd LOVE to have a stirling power plant. My only
question is why hasn't it happened before now? I don't see any
pressing material or knowledge barriers. I know a lot of people would
almost kill for an essentially silent generator.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OT, but...
You are probably right. Depending on how your network is set up...
One computer method: You could write a batch script to wget the link for the
vote, then (on windows) ipconfig /release to release your ip address, then
ipconfig /renew to get a new one, then repeat. Some networks will give you a
new ip and some will only give you the same one. Depending on your
subnetting, you could get hundreds to thousands of votes a day in this way.
Another one computer method: If you are on dial up, you can vote,
disconnect, reconnect and you should get a new IP and be able to vote again.
Many computer method: I control about 600 computers with routable IP
addresses at work. With about 2 minutes work I could easily make them each
vote once per day without anyone being the wiser... but that would be wrong.
Maybe Audi guy is a sysadmin without my highly elevated sence of morals ;)
Anonymous internet voting is a joke, it's so easy to stack the deck.
-Mike
On 2/22/06, Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The Audi guy could be the sys admin for a data warehousing firm with
> easy access to an array of computers that all have different IP
> addresses. So he could be dumping the votes that way.
>
> You have to have alot of friends all voting at the same time to do a
> 600 vote dump overnight. Unless the ADL (Audi Discussion List) has a
> bigger following then us. He's up to something.
>
> Chip
>
>
>
> From: Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:32:23 PM US/Eastern
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Dragtimes Vote
>
>
> FYI the Audi S4 is back at it again with a 600 vote overnight dump. It
> had 2874 votes as ot 10 pm last night and jump to 3384 by this morning.
> I vote daily to keep this going but if this guy is going to move so
> many votes in 12 hours I don't know how the EV's are going to keep ahead
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you want constant current and don't need to precisely set the
current, it's hard to beat incandescent light bulbs. They perform as
an essentially constant current device over a surprisingly wide
voltage range.
The traditional load bank before everyone had to go solid state and
make everything expensive WAS a bank of lamps, each with a switch.
With a variety of sizes of lamps, the load increment can be made
pretty much arbitrarily small.
The modern halogen lamps make it even easier. A bunch of 'em can be
mounted through holes in a pipe through which air is blown. Compact
and without the glare of KW of light blazing away. Arrange them in
binary succession (1,2,4,8,10,20,40,80,100,200 watts, etc) and you can
dial in the load in 1 watt increments.
A simpler approach is what I use on my battery discharge tester. I
have a variety of lamps that singly or in pairs produces the desired
current. Since the current remains essentially constant as the
battery voltage drops, I don't have to constantly record the current.
Once in the beginning, occasionally during the discharge and once near
the end. I know the time from my minute meter and I know the current
so I can directly compute amp-hours.
John
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:21:50 -0800, "Myles Twete"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I'm wanting to do some higher-current load tests (up to 12V / 50A
>> (600W), for now), and I'm wondering what people are using for load
>> cells.
>
>There are many "electronic load" devices out there you could consider---and
>they appear on the surplus/ebay market.
>Some are pricey.
>
>I've been borrowing an out of production Omega 750R electronic load to test
>the Vicor-based chargers I've built for my electric boat and car. No specs,
>but the unit I used seemed to handle at least 30amps and 72v subject to the
>750watt limit. There are beefier ones out there and with different load
>modes including resistive, constant current, others (?)...
>
>-Myles Twete, Portland
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I've always wished that a Stirling generator could be used for a hybrid
EV. You wouldn't have to give up that silent EV feeling when the generator
was running. They do tend to weight more than a similarly-sized ICE engine,
though, so a 10kW engine might be fairly hefty. And even at $1000/kW, you'd
still be paying $10,000 for one that could run a small car. Y-ouch. Still,
I'd love to see the look on people's faces when you told them your car ran
on an External Combustion Engine.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 1:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Dean Kamen's sterling generator, Govenators green website &
Robert Q Riley
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:00:32 -0600, "Mike Ellis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I agree the segway was an over-hyped launch. But Kaman actually has made
>some products that have greatly improved the lives of others.
>
>-wearable infusion pump
>-wearable insulin pump
He wasn't the first on either of these. I'm a diabetic and am
intimately familiar with the tools of the trade. .... Damn, I brain
farted. I had the name of the first one on the tip of my tongue and
it slipped off. It was a huge, dumb thing but a vast improvement for
brittle Type I diabetics.
>-home dialysis machine
>-wheelchair that climbs stairs, raises the user to standing height, works
on
>unpaved surfaces.
Is that wheelchair actually being made? My mom could use one if it
is. I've looked before and could never find anything more than the
hype.
>
>And if they can get the price of that kilowatt stirling generator down to
>that $1000 price point, I'm buying one for the cottage!
Yeah, me too. I'd LOVE to have a stirling power plant. My only
question is why hasn't it happened before now? I don't see any
pressing material or knowledge barriers. I know a lot of people would
almost kill for an essentially silent generator.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:28 PM 22/02/06 -0700, Peter wrote:
Well, the low tech guys use a bucket of water, a wire coat hanger and a
set of jumper cables :-)
Hi All
Just watch the voltage that you are testing at with these methods - fine
for a 12V battery, but as the volts go up so too does the hazard, and at
these types of power levels things can go 'pear shaped' very quickly, at
36V and above there is risk of arc flash and other hazards.
Up to a point, it doesn't matter what method you use, as long as your brain
is in gear at the time and you understand the hazards.
Me, I built a resistive load bank for testing welders (long before I got
interested in EVs), made from two sets of the resistors out of a particular
welder. Here in Australia they made "Pilot arc" welders from the 1930s to
somewhere in the 1960s or '70s, referred to a "pie heater" welders, as the
heat off the resistors was enough to warm your pie by morning tea time.
These welders have a set of switches across the front to bring in different
resistance values (originally labled in amps). I added a big (200A rated)
knife switch and a second set of the resistors all paralleled together. I
can pull over 500A at around 100V safely (don't actually know the upper
limit as I've yet to get the resistors glowing), or knock it back to 10A
with just the first resistor in circuit. Usually with a DC source I'll only
increase the current with the switches, to reduce the flash on break.
Total cost: not a lot of cash, but a bit of scrounging and time.
Hope this gives some ideas
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If someone is using the many-computers-on-a-network method, I wonder if
someone could get the DragTimes admin to look at the IP addresses from his
webserver logs. If the vast majority are from the same netblock (same
beginning value(s) in their IP addresses) then that'd probably pretty
conclusive that the Audi should be disqualified.
--chris
On Wed, February 22, 2006 3:02 pm, Mike Ellis said:
> OT, but...
>
> You are probably right. Depending on how your network is set up...
>
> One computer method: You could write a batch script to wget the link for
> the
> vote, then (on windows) ipconfig /release to release your ip address, then
> ipconfig /renew to get a new one, then repeat. Some networks will give you
> a
> new ip and some will only give you the same one. Depending on your
> subnetting, you could get hundreds to thousands of votes a day in this
> way.
>
> Another one computer method: If you are on dial up, you can vote,
> disconnect, reconnect and you should get a new IP and be able to vote
> again.
>
> Many computer method: I control about 600 computers with routable IP
> addresses at work. With about 2 minutes work I could easily make them each
> vote once per day without anyone being the wiser... but that would be
> wrong.
> Maybe Audi guy is a sysadmin without my highly elevated sence of morals ;)
>
> Anonymous internet voting is a joke, it's so easy to stack the deck.
>
> -Mike
>
> On 2/22/06, Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> The Audi guy could be the sys admin for a data warehousing firm with
>> easy access to an array of computers that all have different IP
>> addresses. So he could be dumping the votes that way.
>>
>> You have to have alot of friends all voting at the same time to do a
>> 600 vote dump overnight. Unless the ADL (Audi Discussion List) has a
>> bigger following then us. He's up to something.
>>
>> Chip
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:32:23 PM US/Eastern
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: Dragtimes Vote
>>
>>
>> FYI the Audi S4 is back at it again with a 600 vote overnight dump. It
>> had 2874 votes as ot 10 pm last night and jump to 3384 by this morning.
>> I vote daily to keep this going but if this guy is going to move so
>> many votes in 12 hours I don't know how the EV's are going to keep ahead
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On February 18, 2006 11:37 PM, David Roden wrote:
> On 17 Feb 2006 at 15:44, Chuck Hursch wrote:
>
> > I don't know how to sense it without blocking the LED.
>
> Phototransistor epoxied to the front of the LED?
Are you talking about on the outside of the case? Is the
phototransistor going to be transparent, or how do I see the LED
myself? Inside the case I think the logic board face with the
LEDs is very close to the case (although I didn't take the logic
board out when I had the unit apart) - I don't think there would
be room between the board and the case for hardly anything.
What I'd really like to do is find the spec for what's supposed
to be going over that ribbon cable, but when I asked Greg McCrea
(Elcon/ZivanUSA) about it in my problem note when I sent the
charger in for repair, he did not respond (or he doesn't know).
I get the feeling they don't want you mucking with the innards of
the charger, even to the extent of making it difficult for you to
adjust the charger, what with those teeny-weeny little set screws
inside (I understand it's a similar situation on the NG* line).
I also google'd the board designation, but came up empty handed.
I suppose one angle to play would be to get a Y ribbon connector
with the same ends (9? holes across), and hook up a voltmeter to
the other side of the Y. Try to figure out the signals going
over the ribbon. I doubt it's current, but rather voltage
signals, and since a voltmeter has very high impedence, it will
merely be an observor off to one side. But a spec would make it
so much easier.
Probably best to file this idea off to the "someday" list or
circular file, and just live with it. On the other hand, it
would be fun to make it work, and I'd stand to learn something.
Someday...
Chuck
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes there is no doubt that this was easily done and there is no doubt that
these votes are easy to inflate. Whomever did the technical version of what
we did socially. Lets get back to blowing up and melting stuff.
James
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chris Robison
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Dragtimes Vote
If someone is using the many-computers-on-a-network method, I wonder if
someone could get the DragTimes admin to look at the IP addresses from his
webserver logs. If the vast majority are from the same netblock (same
beginning value(s) in their IP addresses) then that'd probably pretty
conclusive that the Audi should be disqualified.
--chris
On Wed, February 22, 2006 3:02 pm, Mike Ellis said:
> OT, but...
>
> You are probably right. Depending on how your network is set up...
>
> One computer method: You could write a batch script to wget the link
> for the vote, then (on windows) ipconfig /release to release your ip
> address, then ipconfig /renew to get a new one, then repeat. Some
> networks will give you a new ip and some will only give you the same
> one. Depending on your subnetting, you could get hundreds to thousands
> of votes a day in this way.
>
> Another one computer method: If you are on dial up, you can vote,
> disconnect, reconnect and you should get a new IP and be able to vote
> again.
>
> Many computer method: I control about 600 computers with routable IP
> addresses at work. With about 2 minutes work I could easily make them
> each vote once per day without anyone being the wiser... but that
> would be wrong.
> Maybe Audi guy is a sysadmin without my highly elevated sence of
> morals ;)
>
> Anonymous internet voting is a joke, it's so easy to stack the deck.
>
> -Mike
>
> On 2/22/06, Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> The Audi guy could be the sys admin for a data warehousing firm with
>> easy access to an array of computers that all have different IP
>> addresses. So he could be dumping the votes that way.
>>
>> You have to have alot of friends all voting at the same time to do a
>> 600 vote dump overnight. Unless the ADL (Audi Discussion List) has a
>> bigger following then us. He's up to something.
>>
>> Chip
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:32:23 PM US/Eastern
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: Dragtimes Vote
>>
>>
>> FYI the Audi S4 is back at it again with a 600 vote overnight dump.
>> It had 2874 votes as ot 10 pm last night and jump to 3384 by this
morning.
>> I vote daily to keep this going but if this guy is going to move so
>> many votes in 12 hours I don't know how the EV's are going to keep
>> ahead
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Freidberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The T105-size AGM results will be interesting to read in part
> because I had thought of replacing the T105s in the Electra
> Van at some point with a sealed battery pack.
OK; here are some results:
Discharged at 75A until the first battery hit 5.25V (1.75V/cell), allow
to rest for ~103min, then reapply 75A load until the first battery hits
5.25V/cell again. 116Ah removed prior to the rest, and 11.7Ah removed
after, for a total of 127.7Ah. So, about 10% additional was removed
after the ~1.75hr rest. Graphs of the discharge are available at:
<http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/ev/agm_recovery.pdf>
This was the wery first cycle on these new batteries, so the capacity
was a bit low. The almost 2hr rest period was because by the time I got
down to check on them they'd already been resting for this long.
Today I repeated the test with a 20minute rest to see what effect the
duration of the rest interval has on the capacity recovery. Results
aren't yet available to graph, but the initial 75A discharge lasted
about 1hr47min (133.75Ah), and after a 20min rest they were able to
sustain a 75A load for another 7.5min (9.4Ah), or about 7% more Ah.
If these results scale directly to your U1s, then you could discharge a
U1 string completely in 10min at 75A, let it rest for 20min and expect
to get another 7% of 10min, which is 42sec of runtime. Doing this for
all 3 strings increases your total runtime from 30min to 32min.
Connecting the 3 strings in parallel and discharging them as a single
large battery gets you a 54min runtime, so while there is some capacity
recovery associated with allowing the AGMs to rest, it isn't significant
enough to overcome the reduced capacity associated with discharging your
3 strings individually.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ye may be interested in this.
http://www.vok.lth.se/~ce/Research/stirling/papers/ST_TA2_1.pdf
http://www.vok.lth.se/~ce/Publ/publ_en.htm
_____________
Andre' B.
At 03:11 PM 2/22/2006, you wrote:
Yes, I've always wished that a Stirling generator could be used for a hybrid
EV. You wouldn't have to give up that silent EV feeling when the generator
was running. They do tend to weight more than a similarly-sized ICE engine,
though, so a 10kW engine might be fairly hefty. And even at $1000/kW, you'd
still be paying $10,000 for one that could run a small car. Y-ouch. Still,
I'd love to see the look on people's faces when you told them your car ran
on an External Combustion Engine.
Bill Dennis
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think they do sell the wheelchair. One of the IT people in the physics
department here has one, or a very good faximile anyway.I will ask him the
next time I see him.
Are stirling devices silent? I thought they could be quite noisy ( I think I
read that in WIRED a number of years ago). Still, on occasion I need more
power than I can afford solar panels and batteries at the lake.
-Mike
On 2/22/06, Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:00:32 -0600, "Mike Ellis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I agree the segway was an over-hyped launch. But Kaman actually has made
> >some products that have greatly improved the lives of others.
> >
> >-wearable infusion pump
> >-wearable insulin pump
>
> He wasn't the first on either of these. I'm a diabetic and am
> intimately familiar with the tools of the trade. .... Damn, I brain
> farted. I had the name of the first one on the tip of my tongue and
> it slipped off. It was a huge, dumb thing but a vast improvement for
> brittle Type I diabetics.
>
> >-home dialysis machine
> >-wheelchair that climbs stairs, raises the user to standing height, works
> on
> >unpaved surfaces.
>
> Is that wheelchair actually being made? My mom could use one if it
> is. I've looked before and could never find anything more than the
> hype.
>
> >
> >And if they can get the price of that kilowatt stirling generator down to
> >that $1000 price point, I'm buying one for the cottage!
>
> Yeah, me too. I'd LOVE to have a stirling power plant. My only
> question is why hasn't it happened before now? I don't see any
> pressing material or knowledge barriers. I know a lot of people would
> almost kill for an essentially silent generator.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
> Emerson
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The guy's here is different, but this site claims to sell it... no longer
off topic BTW, it's an EV!
http://www.independencenow.com/ibot/
-Mike
On 2/22/06, Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I think they do sell the wheelchair. One of the IT people in the physics
> department here has one, or a very good faximile anyway.I will ask him the
> next time I see him.
>
> Are stirling devices silent? I thought they could be quite noisy ( I think
> I read that in WIRED a number of years ago). Still, on occasion I need more
> power than I can afford solar panels and batteries at the lake.
>
> -Mike
>
> On 2/22/06, Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:00:32 -0600, "Mike Ellis"
> > < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >I agree the segway was an over-hyped launch. But Kaman actually has
> > made
> > >some products that have greatly improved the lives of others.
> > >
> > >-wearable infusion pump
> > >-wearable insulin pump
> >
> > He wasn't the first on either of these. I'm a diabetic and am
> > intimately familiar with the tools of the trade. .... Damn, I brain
> > farted. I had the name of the first one on the tip of my tongue and
> > it slipped off. It was a huge, dumb thing but a vast improvement for
> > brittle Type I diabetics.
> >
> > >-home dialysis machine
> > >-wheelchair that climbs stairs, raises the user to standing height,
> > works on
> > >unpaved surfaces.
> >
> > Is that wheelchair actually being made? My mom could use one if it
> > is. I've looked before and could never find anything more than the
> > hype.
> >
> > >
> > >And if they can get the price of that kilowatt stirling generator down
> > to
> > >that $1000 price point, I'm buying one for the cottage!
> >
> > Yeah, me too. I'd LOVE to have a stirling power plant. My only
> > question is why hasn't it happened before now? I don't see any
> > pressing material or knowledge barriers. I know a lot of people would
> > almost kill for an essentially silent generator.
> >
> > John
> > ---
> > John De Armond
> > See my website for my current email address
> > http://www.johngsbbq.com
> > Cleveland, Occupied TN
> > A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
> > Emerson
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well you can always go to Wikipedia again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine
which I did and was promptly ROTFL at the shape of the "Rhombic Drive
Beta Stirling Design".
And eBay of course has lots of stuff, just little desktop models
though. Well, that and "plans" for sale.
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&catref=C6&satitle=%28stirling%29+engine&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=78758&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=
<http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&catref=C6&satitle=%28stirling%29+engine&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=78758&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=>
Danny
At 03:11 PM 2/22/2006, you wrote:
Yes, I've always wished that a Stirling generator could be used for a
hybrid
EV. You wouldn't have to give up that silent EV feeling when the
generator
was running. They do tend to weight more than a similarly-sized ICE
engine,
though, so a 10kW engine might be fairly hefty. And even at
$1000/kW, you'd
still be paying $10,000 for one that could run a small car. Y-ouch.
Still,
I'd love to see the look on people's faces when you told them your
car ran
on an External Combustion Engine.
Bill Dennis
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wonder how long before a 10KA fuse blows:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5869409819
Contactor with 120Vdc coil:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7592288747
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Alan... you bring the batteries...
I can make the watts.
It's that simple
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
> Danny
>
> Thanks for your informative e-mail. I am aware of the limitations of fast
> charging conventional batteries. A few years ago I was involved in
> developing revolutionary electrochemical processes. This experience has
> helped me develop some unconventional approaches to the design of super
fast
> charging batteries. I plan to test these approaches. Before I start I am
> researching the potential markets, partners, funding sources and other
> interested parties.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Alan White
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:26 PM
> Subject: Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
>
>
> > No conventional battery can be charged in 5 min no matter what you do
> > with it. Many scientists have been working on how to make a battery
> > which can charge faster but there are tough physical limitations. That
> > is, it's not like this hasn't been done because nobody's tried.
> >
> > There is a new type of lithium battery which is supposed to be able to
> > charge at extraordinarily high rates but they're not really on the
> > market yet, much less in a large and affordable cell.
> >
> > Danny
> >
> > Alan wrote:
> >
> > >I am planning to develop a car battery that can be fully charged in 5
> minutes. Is there anyone who would like to get involved in this project ?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Range and cost of Batteries.
Power is not the issue
Stored Engery is.
Recharge is limited what you can pull off the mains.
At over 12Kw that gets to be a real hassle for most EVs.
Large filling stations and Sub 15 minute Charges are limted power you can
pull off the Grid.
More later
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
> Rich
>
> 7 minutes I am impresed.
>
> If you can recharge an EV in 7 minutes repeatable there is no point us
> developing EV batteries. If the dreaded overnight charge is no longer
> required what is stopping the market in EV's taking off ?.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 5:53 PM
> Subject: Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
>
>
> > Sure....
> > Not a problem....
> >
> > This should be a nice learning process....
> > How many Kwhr does your "EV" store ???
> >
> > I hope you have a healthy check book. 150Kw chargers are not cheap...or
> > small.
> >
> > I have a couple of 7 minute cycles in my log book.
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Alan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:04 AM
> > Subject: Re: Battery charging in only 5 minutes
> >
> >
> > > I am planning to develop a car battery that can be fully charged in 5
> > minutes. Is there anyone who would like to get involved in this project
?
> > >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a similar idea a few years ago. The way I envisioned it working
was like this:
Someone takes the trailer connection standard we have today (lights,
brakes, hitches, etc) and adds to it a standard generator interface.
This standard would be made available to all EV converters and
manufacturers.
Converters and EV operators could build their own generator trailers if
they want them. As EVs with the correct socket start to appear, more
people will build the gen trailers. I'd expect local EV clubs or
similar organizations to build and maintain them initially, like Peter
suggests.
Eventually it might become practical for a place like U-Haul to rent EV
generator trailers alongside their other trailers. Need to make a long
trip in the EV? Stop in at your local U-Haul, rent the gen trailer,
and drive to your destination. Either leave it there at the
destination U-Haul, or bring it home. Just like you can do with their
trucks and trailers today.
This would also work for pusher trailers, which personally I like
better than generator trailers. Pushers should be more fuel-efficient.
I don't know how they'd compare cost-wise. Gen trailers need a
generator, pusher trailers need a transmission.
Leaving a space inside your vehicle for a generator would compromise
the design of many of our (converted) EVs, I think. (Purpose-built EVs
like Jerry's Freedom EV could be an exception.) I might be able to put
a generator in the engine compartment in my Karmann Ghia conversion,
and pickups are a natural choice, but those of us with Metros and
Aspires and other small sedans would probably have a hard time fitting
in a generator. And of course, it's generally the smaller cars that
are most in need of a range boost.
On Feb 22, 2006, at 12:18 PM, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
That's a clever idea. I doubt it will ever happen, especially since it
depends on the widespread acceptance of EVs, but it is clever.
Hmm, maybe EV clubs could form and pool their money for a good low
emissions generator.
I haven't really thought this through any more deeply that the level
of
"hey, this idea just occurred to me", and maybe it's already been
discussed,
but...
In the past, there's been discussion on the EVDL of battery swapping
stations, with the consensus that didn't seem impractical. With
hybrids
sounding like they're going to be big in the next few decades,
though, I
was
wondering if a "generator renting paradigm" might work. For example,
you
purchase a series hybrid without a generator, just batteries. Most
of the
time, you just drive it around town on batteries only. When you need
to
take a longer trip, you stop by a Generator Rental Store, which pops a
generator into the vehicle, and off you go.
You don't need to spend the money up front on the generator piece of
the
car, and you're not carrying around the generator weight unnecessarily
every
day.
Thought (rebuttals, flames :})?
Bill Dennis
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
