EV Digest 5217
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) zinc air batteries
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Google webpage authoring
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Need Idiot's Guidance to PFC20 & Wet Cell Batteries
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Google webpage authoring
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Revived and free batteries?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Revived and free batteries?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Revived and free batteries?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Ampabout ... wearing a big fat EV Grin
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Brakes .. Vacuum to manual
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Battery handbook download
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: E-Meter confusion
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) OT: Bush acknolwedges 'mixed signals' over layoffs
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Revived and free batteries?
by Joel Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Vacuum pumps
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
19) ownerless car?
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Electifying Opportunity from the Arcane car list.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) First week's impression of my conversion.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Need Idiot's Guidance to PFC20 & Wet Cell Batteries
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Mk3s expense/benifits
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Different Ah Strings
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) dc converter disconnect
by Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: First week's impression of my conversion.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Com ed in Chicago has no reduced night rates. I doubt they even have payback
rates.
Rick Miller
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:53:46 -0500
Subject: Re: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
> Here's a question. Why isn't everyone installing battery packs in their
> basement and buying at night and selling in the day?
>
> -Mike
>
Hi Mike;
Good point, but would ya WANT a basement fill of batteries? IF you are
lucky to be able top HAVE a basement. FLA an' CA don't apply here!I don't
think most power Co's give ya a night break? They sure as hell DON'T here in
CT.Show of hands WHO get off peak rates? Just for fun.
Seeya
Bob, Hell CLand P in CT won't EVen PAY you their outragious rate when
they buyback power!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Or, for that matter, installing a battery pack in the basement
and keeping the house solely on battery power during the day.
Could make for shallow discharges (longer battery pack life),
off-peak charging (cheaper) and built-in whole-house UPS.
Problem is the size of the inverter that would be needed to
power a 100 amp panel.
Battery costs would also be a consideration, but I could
see some old forklift packs or other heavy-duty batteries
being procured that couldn't put out the amps for high
amp draws, but might work fine as a cycle pack for a home.
Tim
---------
From: Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 11:23:01 -0600
Subject: Re: V2G, vehicle to grid - fantastic concept
Here's a question. Why isn't everyone installing battery packs in their
basement and buying at night and selling in the day?
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I keep hearing about zinc air batteries. The problem
is that to smelt the zinc back to metallic zinc from
zinc oxide requires sulfuric acid and lots of
electricity. It is also not very efficient and
produces a lot of heat. So again there goes the
argument, "Why not just use the power directly?". It
got me thinking, I wonder if there is a way to smelt
with heat? One could build a big solar furnace and any
inefficiency could be dealt with with a few more
mirrors. so I did a little research and found this.
http://www.atdforum.org/article.php3?id_article=157
Once they get the bugs worked out it could also be a
viable, if you like Zinc Air batteries.
Gadget
visit my websites at www.reverendgadget.com, gadgetsworld.org,
leftcoastconversions.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know the people who post such notes as this one mean well, and it's good
to see that they're enthusiastic about promoting EVs. However, this
information has been posted here already. A check of the archives before
posting would have confirmed that.
See :
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/59355
Or if you're a Google and Yahoo avoider :
http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/ev/3784/
On the second source, the relevant message is about 3/4 of the way down
the digest page.
Again, I mean no offense, and I'm not trying to be critical. I'm just asking
folks to please not post off-topic material, especially when it's already been
posted. Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.
PS - I changed the subject because the previous one read like a Google
advert.
David Roden
EV List Assistant Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brian M. Sutin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have a string of 10 Trojan 12V 27TMH wet cell batteries on
> the end of a PFC20 charger. I originally tried to follow the
> directions in the PFC20 manual for setting up the charger,
> which didn't work in a big way. A call to Manzanita Micro
> revealed that the instructions are only for AGM batts. Nice
> if they had said so, but no damage done.
The procedure for setting the charge voltage that I see in the online
document seems applicable regardless of the battery type. I think your
issue has more to do with needing to figure out the proper settings for
your older batteries than how to set the charger to the proper values.
> Right now I have the charger set to the brand-new pack
> acceptance voltage of 148V, and have the charger time out
> after 2 hours. It never reaches voltage limit, perhaps
> because the batteries are very old.
So, you have the timer set to expire 2 hours after charger power on?
> I opportunity charge about four times a day, and I have to
> add a 1/2 cup of water about once a week to keep to plates
> under water.
This sounds excessive to me.
I would suggest that the first thing you need to do is figure out what
the proper charge voltage is for your batteries. 148V seems a tad high,
even for new batteries, unless you are factoring in a bit of temperature
compensation to account for cooler temperatures.
First off, change the timer to shut off 2hrs after hitting the
acceptance voltage (turn on SW4-2 instead of SW4-3). Now let the
batteries charge and periodically check the voltage and current. Also
check at least a few cells for signs of gassing (are they bubbling
gently; kind of a "fizzing")? If they are, then lower the voltage limit
until the blue LED comes on, if it is not already on. What you've just
done is to set the absorption/acceptance voltage to the gassing voltage
of your particular batteries. For healthy/new flooded Trojans this
would be about 2.43V/cell (@ 26.7C), but for older/less healthy
batteries it will be somewhat lower.
Now check the current every 5-10 minutes and record the values. It
should be dropping; if it isn't, then the voltage is still set too high,
turn it down further. If the current is increasing, stop immediately:
the voltage is set too high and the higher than desired current that
results is causing the batteries to heat up and draw even more current
(thermal runaway). Let the batteries cool overnight and try setting the
acceptance votlage again (to a lower value).
If it stops dropping before the 2hr timer shuts off the charger, this is
the finish current your batteries will sustain (if your batteries were
healthy/new this would be under 2A). Anything you return to the battery
after this point is "overcharge"; the batteries need some amount of
overcharge, but you want to balance this against excessive water
consumption. Adjust the timer to limit the amount of time that the
charger runs beyond this point. If you are opportunity charging often,
you may want to be a bit conservative on the timer so that the total
overcharge accumulated during the course of a day will not be too great.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Applogies, I did check my archives. I must have typo'd my search.
-Mike
On 2/27/06, David Roden (Akron OH USA) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I know the people who post such notes as this one mean well, and it's good
> to see that they're enthusiastic about promoting EVs. However, this
> information has been posted here already. A check of the archives before
> posting would have confirmed that.
>
> See :
>
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/59355
>
> Or if you're a Google and Yahoo avoider :
>
> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/ev/3784/
>
> On the second source, the relevant message is about 3/4 of the way down
> the digest page.
>
> Again, I mean no offense, and I'm not trying to be critical. I'm just
> asking
> folks to please not post off-topic material, especially when it's already
> been
> posted. Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.
>
> PS - I changed the subject because the previous one read like a Google
> advert.
>
> David Roden
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cor van de Water wrote:
> Lee Hart recently wrote how to revive a battery by applying a
> somewhat higher voltage than normally would be max.
> I tried the same with some old Hawkers and indeed saw some
> come back, some were (physically) damaged and only came back
> to disappointing levels, often losing charge in days.
Yes, I'm doing this to an old abused set of Hawkers right now. the 12v
battery is under 6v as it arrives. If charged with a normal 12v charger
(about 15v max), it draws almost no current, and thus won't charge.
If I charge it with a 24v bench supply, it starts off drawing some very
low current, like 0.1 amp. The current slowly rises over many hours,
sometimes taking DAYS to peak. At some point, the current starts to
increase quite rapidly, and it "transitions" into normal battery
behaviour. Since it's connected to a 24v charger, I have a car tail
light bulb in series to limit the current to about 1 amp maximum.
When I see this lamp light (charging at >1 amps), I remove the battery
from the 24v supply, and continue charging it with a normal 12v charger.
The current peaks, then falls again as the battery reaches full. I stop
charging when the current stops falling.
I then cycle the battery through several charge/dischare cycles.
Discharge to 10.5v, charge to 15v, repeat. If the battery is good,
capacity keeps improving over each cycle. I have an E-meter connected,
and am putting in an extra 5ah or so on each charge cycle. I quit when
the capacity stops improving.
You could apply still higher voltages, but I think it is rather
pointless. The very dead 12v battery draws essentially the same current
at 24v or 120v, so there's no benefit and probably a higher risk in
using a higher voltage than necessary.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mike golub wrote:
> So can you just buy the "plates" that exist in the
> transformer?
> Who sells them?
I'm sure companies must make them, and sell them to transformer
manufacturers. But they'd be buying laminations by the ton. I don't know
of anyone who would sell you a just a few dozen laminations.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ted C. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I havn't hear anything. But i live two hours north of there.
> Ted
> Olympia, WA
Actually, the "Vancouver" in question is the one several hours north of
you (in BC) ;^>
Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The rumor of battery reviving in Vancouver is back. Can
> anyone confirm or debunk this. Maybe someone from Vancouver.
I can confirm that the rumour never went away. Locally the fellow
responsible is known as "E-Bike Bob". He does apparently collect/accept
used batteries for revival, however, he does not disclose any details of
what he does. It could be as simple as giving them a proper charge.
I have seen no convincing evidence of any battery being revived to
"110%" of its rated capacity. Bob did bring a small revived battery (a
PbA gel cell, IIRC) to a VEVA meeting some months ago and connected it
to some handheld device that indicated a capacity estimate on its LCD
which suggested the battery might have rated or better capacity,
however, I will believe this estimate only when backed up by a discharge
test at an appropriate current.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
We used either Cadmium Sulfate anhydrous power or in a crystal form. The
stuff from JC Whitney could be diluted with a ratio of 1 gallon per 4 mg of
Cadmium metal. This is about 500mg per pound.
The Cadmium Sulfate anhydrous power cost about $400.00 per lb while the
crystal form cost about $200.00 a lb or is about 500 mg. We used about 4mg
of the crystal form per gallon which was enough to fill four 300 ah battery
jars. So one lb is enough to do 500 jars or even 1000 cells in standard size
battery.
You can use this mixing ratio in distill water for toping off a fill battery
when its needed. Do this only one time. If you do it this way, you will
have enough for 1000's of cells.
The source of supply for these chemicals is a company call
Fisher Scientific who is a supplier of scientific laboratory supplies.
They have 30 U.S. Customer Support Centers in all the major cities. I have
either bought from them in Seattle which is in my purchasing area or
sometimes from Denver.
You may have to order in case lots for a minimum order.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike golub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: Revived and free batteries?
> In trying to get some "cadmium sulfated"
> is JC WHitney's Charge it, the cheapest place?
>
> Thanks
> --- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > There is a maintenance method we used in our battery
> > shops in maintaining
> > industrial 2 volt cells. Should be call jars not
> > cells. We had thousand of
> > these jars in our buildings complex used for backup
> > emergency power.
> >
> > The 300 ah jars that are listed in the below article
> > is about the same type
> > I used in my EV. They had removable tops which the
> > top and grids can be
> > pull out.
> >
> > To repair or clean a jar, we first took voltage, a
> > specific gravity reading
> > of the specific gravity and a load reading of each
> > jar. We normally
> > discharge the jars down to 1.200 sg before removing
> > the grids. Removing the
> > tops and grids we put them into a container of
> > distill water that was a
> > ultrasound type of cleaner.
> >
> > We than filter the 1.200 sg acid for reused. Note,
> > only replace the same
> > specific gravity acid with the same sg reading you
> > take out.
> >
> > In some cases in a suspected short cell, we would
> > push in new plastic grid
> > separators while pushing out the old ones. This
> > does two things, it
> > eliminates the short and pulls out a lot of
> > sulfating that is trap in the
> > groves of the separators.
> >
> > After a cleaning rinse in the distill water, the
> > grids was submersed in a
> > solution of cadmium sulfated which is to remove any
> > traces of sulfating in
> > the grids. While its in this solution a slight
> > charging is applied.
> >
> > The jar is then assembled and put in service for
> > about another 5 years.
> >
> > I did this maintenance on three of my jars in my EV
> > after about 8 years of
> > service. The sg was not coming up which I suspected
> > it was either a shorted
> > cell or too much sulfating.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ted C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 6:27 PM
> > Subject: Re: Revived and free batteries?
> >
> >
> > > I havn't hear anything. But i live two hours north
> > of there. A couple of
> > > years ago i ran across this article about this
> > subject. So i will throw it
> > > into the mix. I found it quite interesting.
> > >
> > > http://www.homepower.com/files/edta.pdf
> > >
> > >
> > > Ted
> > > Olympia, WA
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Lawrence Rhodes"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Zappylist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric
> > Vehicle Discussion
> > > List"
> > > <[email protected]>;
> > "electric_vehicles_for_sale Moderator"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:49 AM
> > > Subject: Revived and free batteries?
> > >
> > >
> > > > The rumor of battery reviving in Vancouver is
> > back. Can anyone confirm
> > > > or
> > > > debunk this. Maybe someone from Vancouver.
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.geocities.com/battery_rescue/index.html
> > > > Lawrence Rhodes
> > > > Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> > > > Reedmaker
> > > > Book 4/5 doubler
> > > > Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> > > > Vegetable Oil Car.
> > > > 415-821-3519
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Smalley wrote:
> Welding only the outside edge of the laminations only shorts the
> outer edges together. There is no weld in the inner edge of the
> laminations therefore there is no shorted turn. It is only a U
> shaped conductor. Not an entire turn.
To be precise, what counts is the cross sectional area of the shorted
region produced by the weld.
Let's say your core has a cross sectional area of 1" x 1" = 1 sq.inch.
If you made the core from a solid lump of iron, current could flow
around the periphery of this area; a 1" + 1" + 1" + 1" + = 4" long path.
This is your "shorted turn". The magnetic flux going thru this shorted
turn is the full 1 sq.inch. Not good! The core would get very hot, and
your transformer would be very inefficient.
Now make the core with 20 laminations, each 1" wide x 0.05" thick. The
"shorted turn" still exists around the periphery of each lamination;
this path is 1"+ 0.05" + 1" + .05" = 2.2" long. Making our path about
half as long, so its electrical resistance is half as much. By itself,
this would *double* the current in our shorted turn; that's bad! But the
cross sectional area of each lamination is 1/20th. This cuts the loss by
20:1. Our resulting loss is now 2/20 or 1/10th of what it would have
been if we hadn't laminated the core.
When you weld the laminations together, you would never weld both edges;
this would form a shorted turn around the outside of the core, creating
the same situation as a solid lump of iron. You weld just one edge,
making a "C" shaped path as Joe said.
However, the cross sectional area of the weld itself becomes a shorted
turn. If it were 1" wide and penetrated 1/4" deep, it would have a cross
sectional area of 1" x 0.25" = 0.25" sq.inch. Not as bad as a solid
core, but 5 times worse than 1" x 0.05" = 0.05" sq.inch laminations.
So, the goal is to keep these welds pretty small and shallow.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well the mechanic got me and my EV back on the road. Both of the
motor bearings were replaced, and the throw-out and the rear shaft
bearings in the transmission were replaced. The contaminated
transmission fluid was removed the transmission flushed, and
automatic transmission fluid put in my 4 speed manual transmission.
The differential fluid was not contaminated, the rear wheel
bearings were OK, but the mechanic found the front wheel bearings
contaminated, and the front brake lines cracked. I had him replace
all of them and repack the front bearings.
After he fixed the EV he drove it over to his Mom's to show it off.
He was having a pretty good time driving it around. However he did
not plug in the PFC-30 charger, only my 12V charger (my work around
until I get another DC2DC installed).
When I received my EV at work, I checked the cruising control
e-meter. My pack was down 72 Ahrs. 80 Ahrs is my limit/capacity. I
told him to park it. I told him I know how to drive it home,
because I know how to drive an Electric (like you have an egg under
your accelerator foot). He gave me a puzzled look, then a smile. I
drove him back to his house using the borrowed ICE vehicle.
After work, I put my EV in reverse, and all I could hear was a
little bit of transmission noise. The motor was now so quiet, it
was like 1992 when I first took possession of my EV. A pure EV grin
was on my face as I drove it home for the first time in a very long
time.
When I got home I put the pack on a deep, slow charge. The next
morning the charger had not reached its pack voltage set point and
had over charged by 17 Ahrs. I attribute this to the weather last
not was warmer so the pack did not reach the voltage to turn off
the PFC. 17 ahrs of overcharge is nothing, distilled water is
cheap. Besides I know I have a fully charged pack with all its
cells as balanced as they are going to get.
The drive to work was fun, even though the cooler pack temperatures
reduce my range, I don't have to drive far in my commute to work.
It was pure pleasure and I was wearing a big fat EV Grin.
In the evening when I pull into the drive way at home, I noticed
spots on the driveway that looked like fluid dripping from my
transmission. I put down newspaper so that it was under the
transmission. I would know if I have a leak by the next morning.
The next morning I backed half way out, and the newspaper was
clean. Those spots on the driveway are from the ICE vehicle I
borrowed from my friend. That put a different kind of smile on my
face.
It reminded me of when I lived in a Sunnyvale Apartment. My parking
stall floor was very clean. And why not, I did not have an ICE to
drip petroleum everywhere. Gawd it is good to have my EV back!
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
IMHO, It depends on the car on how well it works without power, but the
spring and diaphram are negligable. the spring gets rid of the one under
the dash one and is only strong enough to prevent accidental activation
when you rest your foot on the pedal. Unless the checkvalve was
installed backwards or is completely plugged, removing the hose should
feel the same as gutting things. (But of course the brakes would have
been terrible anyway)
Some vehicles, most notibly the ones with the 2 stage diaphram are
designed practialy to depend on the booster to get shorter under dash
pedals and smaller calipers to fit in tighter spots, these vehicles will
suffer greatly without vacuum. A good clue is how beefy the pedal is and
whether the car was also offered without power brakes.
We need a better vacuum pump. I haven't gotten the opertunity to check
out the one that victor sells yet but it also looks like a single piston
pump. A single piston pump is gonna vibrate, period, everthing to make
a single piston pump quiet is sortof a bandaid. Especially when trying
for a small motor, they tend to rev quite high. boing boing boing
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You may be interested in this free technical book...
Sorry for the incinveniance caused.... I have uploaded
the file
again...
http://rapidshare.de/files/14299292/Handbook_Batteries.zip.html
You have to click download option 'free'
Then you have to wait 30 seconds while this is
displayed
"Download Ticket reserved x seconds"
Then it gives you a three digit multicolor code that
you have to type into the provided box.
Then click download and it should work
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger wrote -
> One word of caution: while the E-Meter outputs data at 1 second
> intervals, it actually reads its inputs much more frequently, and so
> does a more accurate job of counting Ah during discharge than you can
> based on integrating the current values it reports over time. This is
> because the current varies wildly and quite rapidly while driving an EV
> and you cannot accurately compute the Ah used based on the 1 second
> reporting intervals. In this case the "smoothed, ready for the Sailor
> number" *is* better than the raw data! ;^>
>
You can also set the time interval average that the meter uses to show the time
of operation remaining. So if you have lots of stop and go, you might want to
set it at 4 minutes or if just constant driving, then to instant. There is also
a percent remaining.
It is called 'How to Set t' on page 24 of the pdf file on the Xantrex web site.
HTH,
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While this thread is marked OT, it really is on topic, as it is in
regards to the funding of electric transportation research projects.
I think it was Chip who brought up the fact that 32 workers were laid
off from the renewable energy lab due to significant budgetary cutbacks,
then rehired right before the president's visit.
The president acknolwedged that Washington has sent "mixed signals" on
this issue and blamed the appropriations process.
The Energy Secretary Samual Bodman authorized an immediate $5 million
transfer to the institute to get the workers back on the job in time for
the president's visit, but this political gesture doesn't provide the
money they need to continue the renewable energy programs they were
working on. There is still a $23 million dollar budget shortfall at the
lab.
Co-chairman of the House Renewable Energy and Energy Efficiency Caucus,
Mark Udall said that the government has funded only ONE-THIRD of the
money that the 2005 energy bill authorized for renewable energy and
energy efficiency.
We're simply not funding the past and current mandates. While Bush has
called for a 22 percent increase in DOE funding, the actual reality of
major government funding CUTBACKS are being felt in many labs that
perform this research. It's a very sad shell game. Pass the
"authorization" for spending in renewable energy, but don't send the
labs the money that is authorized. That way leadership can say that they
are supporting alternate energy research without having to actually fund
it.
Just remember, it's more than what they say that counts, and while
Bush's new "advocacy" of alt-fuels is high profile, it needs to
translate into actual funding getting to actual labs doing the actual
work.
The AP picked up the story:
http://tinyurl.com/ov79p
-Ken Trough
V is for Voltage
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't they also sell the stuff at Harbor Freight Tools?
mike golub wrote:
In trying to get some "cadmium sulfated"
is JC WHitney's Charge it, the cheapest place?
Thanks
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There is a maintenance method we used in our battery
shops in maintaining
industrial 2 volt cells. Should be call jars not
cells. We had thousand of
these jars in our buildings complex used for backup
emergency power.
The 300 ah jars that are listed in the below article
is about the same type
I used in my EV. They had removable tops which the
top and grids can be
pull out.
To repair or clean a jar, we first took voltage, a
specific gravity reading
of the specific gravity and a load reading of each
jar. We normally
discharge the jars down to 1.200 sg before removing
the grids. Removing the
tops and grids we put them into a container of
distill water that was a
ultrasound type of cleaner.
We than filter the 1.200 sg acid for reused. Note,
only replace the same
specific gravity acid with the same sg reading you
take out.
In some cases in a suspected short cell, we would
push in new plastic grid
separators while pushing out the old ones. This
does two things, it
eliminates the short and pulls out a lot of
sulfating that is trap in the
groves of the separators.
After a cleaning rinse in the distill water, the
grids was submersed in a
solution of cadmium sulfated which is to remove any
traces of sulfating in
the grids. While its in this solution a slight
charging is applied.
The jar is then assembled and put in service for
about another 5 years.
I did this maintenance on three of my jars in my EV
after about 8 years of
service. The sg was not coming up which I suspected
it was either a shorted
cell or too much sulfating.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ted C." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: Revived and free batteries?
I havn't hear anything. But i live two hours north
of there. A couple of
years ago i ran across this article about this
subject. So i will throw it
into the mix. I found it quite interesting.
http://www.homepower.com/files/edta.pdf
Ted
Olympia, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Zappylist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric
Vehicle Discussion
List"
<[email protected]>;
"electric_vehicles_for_sale Moderator"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 11:49 AM
Subject: Revived and free batteries?
The rumor of battery reviving in Vancouver is
back. Can anyone confirm
or
debunk this. Maybe someone from Vancouver.
http://www.geocities.com/battery_rescue/index.html
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all.
In the quest for a quiet vacuum pump......
Has anybody tried a rotary vane vacuum pump?
Dana
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was wondering if anyone has had
an experience having a car with no title.
I don't mean a stolen car, I mean a car
that the Manufacturer denies Paternity.
They never registered the car with any State,
and they never will.
I can understand their legal reason for doing so...
in theory, it is modified, so it might not be
as safe as the original car was.
One thought that occurred to me is,
once it is running, it could be used
for NEDRA races and the like - or could it?
Do they require cars to have a legal status?
I'm thinking if it can't go on public roads,
maybe it can be optimized for the track.
Seemingly, registration is not needed to drive on
private roads (tracks).
It would be really sad to crush the car just because
it's DNA hasn't been registered with the DMV.
Maybe they'll go out of business, and I can claim
it just got forgotten in the shuffle...
-=-=-===--==
I need to talk to the lady in charge of titles in NJ
anyway, because it seems NJ doesn't register EV's at all.
The only one I heard about in NJ, um, hasn't been inspected
just yet - so its a secret.
Anyone want to join a class action suit?
They don't realize which members of my family are on my
legal team...
Thanks
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: David Russel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Electifying Opportunity
anyone interested?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4616581676&;
David
Sincerely,
David
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I have driven to work and errands mostly with my converted 300zx,
about 101 miles so far.
There is so much that still needs to be done, but it has been fun.
but, observations
My EV mileage sucks: I am using mapquest to determine miles since
odometer is broken and I have put the emeter on kWh so I can say that I
am getting 425wh/mile. ack, cough. Although it seems to coast and
coast, that is way high and ther must be something dragging.
Wireing an EV for having the plug in back wasn't very bright. I had
planned to put a cord real thru the old filler location, but, honestly,
how many times do I back into the parking stall? Having it in back means
running wire from front of car to charger in back, then an extension
cord past the front of car bac to plug in front, doh!.
a Link1000 works, but a link 10 is way better for 3 reasons. It has a
way of scaleing so the decimal looks right, it can go to 1000amps with a
1000amp 100mv shunt and display correctly and it has rs232.
Not having an alternator, or a dc-dc and keeping the aux battery charged
is a pain. Plus the aux battery is also an AGM and that means it needs a
bloody regulator or a chair next to the car so I can watch the voltmeter.
5 times I have thought I was chargeing and I wasn't
2 popped breakers.
1 plug in and walk away, but switch is off (duh, leaves handprint on
forehead)
1 plug in without checking current controll knob, Have to manually turn
charger down near end of charge until I upgrade the charger. Gotta
remember to crank it back up!
And today, when a reg got wet and told the charge to go into equalize
mode. let me see .1 amp * 300V is 30watts, i need 3,400 to get home,
that is 113 hours! Unplugged communication and started chargeing at 5.5
amps and went into shop. Realized that that means reg is in eq mode and
charger isn't and ran back to pull the regs fuse, Yes the heat sink was hot!
The wetherman is 1/2 wrong.
I didn't waterproof under the hood and water dripped onto a regulator
and "damaged" it. I didn't want the pack to sit too long before it got a
proper charge and kind of rushed the regulator installation. I need to
ask the list for some ideas on how to achieve waterproof EV. It is
raining today and my drive home had me worrying. I have EXIDE Orbitals
and have been looking thru album but havent found an example of orbitals
under the hood with reg's.
When I plug in an external load, does it do all the bypassing? If
this is the case, I could put them in an enclosure and put the loads
external. I look at the circuit and it doesn't seem like that is
possible, the thermister is under the on-board heatsink looks like it is
still the basis of control.
options are
remote mount all the regs in a drip-proof box and put a fan and a filter
on it
remove batteries and make a box, then fan, and filter. with regs on top
of each battery.
totally seal off engine compartment and have one big fan and filter to
cool motor and regs. Make it like a trunk.
make a top box, a thin box with holes in the bottom for the posts. al
the cables and regs are in this and a fan keeps them from getting too hot.
what am I missing?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think I said that...to anyone...Ever.
You might want to rethink What you are trying to do.
And do your flooded lead acid home work.
In fact I tell folks how to charge just about any battery with my Chargers.
I am glad Roger helped you out...
Please don't put words in my mouth that never came from them.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 8:57 PM
Subject: Need Idiot's Guidance to PFC20 & Wet Cell Batteries
> I have a string of 10 Trojan 12V 27TMH wet cell batteries on the end of a
> PFC20 charger. I originally tried to follow the directions in the PFC20
> manual for setting up the charger, which didn't work in a big way. A call
> to Manzanita Micro revealed that the instructions are only for AGM batts.
> Nice if they had said so, but no damage done.
>
> Right now I have the charger set to the brand-new pack acceptance voltage
> of 148V, and have the charger time out after 2 hours. It never reaches
> voltage limit, perhaps because the batteries are very old. I opportunity
> charge about four times a day, and I have to add a 1/2 cup of water about
> once a week to keep to plates under water.
>
> So how do I set up this charger correctly?
>
> Brian
> http://www.skewray.com/alfa/
>
>
> --
> Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Astronomical Optical Engineering and Software
> Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 3:01 PM
Subject: RE: Mk3s expense/benifits
> Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > But finding them getting them all wired up and running is
> > goign to be a real challenge.
>
> No custom code at all to do data acquisition, just run up the free
> Agilent-supplied application. It doesn't get any friendlier for the
> user.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
Well OK Roger.
This looks like what I need to do Cal an quality control on My Reg
production line. And could be used for some major upgrading to my Charger
power bench.
Nice Idea.
Lets see you get it into a a battery rack...ina REAL EV... Got ya there!!!
Not gonna fight on this one.. Looks like a good idea for Lab work.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> Suppose you have batteries of the same chemistry, but with different
> Ah ratings... What would be a good way to hook up the two strings?
I'd use something like my Battery Balancer, where you monitor each one's
voltage, and switch a charger/chargers between them as appropriate to
keep them at the same state of charge.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am putting a new dcdc converter in my EV, but need to add a relay to shut it
off
when the key is off since it has high 65mA off drain current.
I am thinking of using a Crydon solid state relay that is rated for 100-200VDC
at 7A, but it is a bit expensive - $50.
Can anyone reccomend a cheaper sealed mechanical relay for this same job?
Also, anyone have a suggestion for an inline fuse or fuse holder?
Thanks...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jeff,
I also plug my EV in the back, but I have a recepticle on the wall at the
back of the garage, plus one just outside on the wall of the garage and
another one on a power post at the end of the driveway. They are all on the
same 50 amp circuit breaker using three 125/250 50 amp 4 wire recepticles.
If you just have one recepticle in the front, just go down to Home Depot and
purchase the surface mounted wireway made by Wiremold. You remove the power
recepticle up to 50 amp type and install a Wiremold extension box over the
existing outlet box. This allows you to run a Wiremold raceway on the
surface to the back of the parking area or garage. Install a large surface
box for your power recepticle.
If its not a enclose garage, but a cover parking space, then you can install
a cast aluminum extension box over the existing outlet junction box and run
conduit with watertight box connectors to a surface mounted cast aluminum
recepticle box. You can also gets these at Home Depot made by the Bell
Electrical company.
You can have as many 30 to 50 amps power recepticles on the circuit as long
as you have just one circuit breaker size for that recepticle and wire or
just blank off the front recepticle with a blank plate and reused the
recepticle in the back if it's a 30 to 50 amp type.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 5:50 PM
Subject: First week's impression of my conversion.
> Well, I have driven to work and errands mostly with my converted 300zx,
> about 101 miles so far.
> There is so much that still needs to be done, but it has been fun.
>
> but, observations
> My EV mileage sucks: I am using mapquest to determine miles since
> odometer is broken and I have put the emeter on kWh so I can say that I
> am getting 425wh/mile. ack, cough. Although it seems to coast and
> coast, that is way high and ther must be something dragging.
>
> Wireing an EV for having the plug in back wasn't very bright. I had
> planned to put a cord real thru the old filler location, but, honestly,
> how many times do I back into the parking stall? Having it in back means
> running wire from front of car to charger in back, then an extension
> cord past the front of car bac to plug in front, doh!.
>
> a Link1000 works, but a link 10 is way better for 3 reasons. It has a
> way of scaleing so the decimal looks right, it can go to 1000amps with a
> 1000amp 100mv shunt and display correctly and it has rs232.
>
> Not having an alternator, or a dc-dc and keeping the aux battery charged
> is a pain. Plus the aux battery is also an AGM and that means it needs a
> bloody regulator or a chair next to the car so I can watch the voltmeter.
>
> 5 times I have thought I was chargeing and I wasn't
> 2 popped breakers.
> 1 plug in and walk away, but switch is off (duh, leaves handprint on
> forehead)
> 1 plug in without checking current controll knob, Have to manually turn
> charger down near end of charge until I upgrade the charger. Gotta
> remember to crank it back up!
> And today, when a reg got wet and told the charge to go into equalize
> mode. let me see .1 amp * 300V is 30watts, i need 3,400 to get home,
> that is 113 hours! Unplugged communication and started chargeing at 5.5
> amps and went into shop. Realized that that means reg is in eq mode and
> charger isn't and ran back to pull the regs fuse, Yes the heat sink was
> hot!
>
> The wetherman is 1/2 wrong.
> I didn't waterproof under the hood and water dripped onto a regulator
> and "damaged" it. I didn't want the pack to sit too long before it got a
> proper charge and kind of rushed the regulator installation. I need to
> ask the list for some ideas on how to achieve waterproof EV. It is
> raining today and my drive home had me worrying. I have EXIDE Orbitals
> and have been looking thru album but havent found an example of orbitals
> under the hood with reg's.
> When I plug in an external load, does it do all the bypassing? If
> this is the case, I could put them in an enclosure and put the loads
> external. I look at the circuit and it doesn't seem like that is
> possible, the thermister is under the on-board heatsink looks like it is
> still the basis of control.
>
> options are
>
> remote mount all the regs in a drip-proof box and put a fan and a filter
> on it
>
> remove batteries and make a box, then fan, and filter. with regs on top
> of each battery.
>
> totally seal off engine compartment and have one big fan and filter to
> cool motor and regs. Make it like a trunk.
>
> make a top box, a thin box with holes in the bottom for the posts. al
> the cables and regs are in this and a fan keeps them from getting too hot.
>
> what am I missing?
>
>
--- End Message ---
