EV Digest 5231
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Figured out the Dolphin problem, now need a weird DC-DC....
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) battery charger building
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) on board battery chargers---to disconnect or not
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: battery charger building
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: battery charger building
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) New US Electricar group created, please join.
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Figured out the Dolphin problem, now need a weird DC-DC....
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) was battery charger/ now welder building
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Electrum Spyder
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: on board battery chargers---to disconnect or not
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Continuation of Coco Loto at Seattle Rod and Custom Show
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Figured out the Dolphin problem, now need a weird DC-DC....
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Electrum Spyder
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) What are the + and - of parallel strings and buddy pairs?
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: on board battery chargers---to disconnect or not
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Figured out the Dolphin problem, now need a weird DC-DC....
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Totally OT but... So you thought you had problems
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: What are the + and - of parallel strings and buddy pairs?
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Figured out the Dolphin problem, now need a weird DC-DC....
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: What are the + and - of parallel strings and buddy pairs?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: was battery charger building
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: What are the + and - of parallel strings and buddy pairs?
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) lift bed
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 9:54 PM -0500 3/4/06, Christopher Zach wrote:
Now of course I have to make repairs. What I need is a DC-DC
converter that can take anything from 100 volts up to 400 volts and
put out a rock-solid 15 volts at about 1 amp. I can then attach this
to the Dolphin at the point of the existing voltage regulator and
let it go to town.
Before I go building this myself, does anyone know of something
off-the-shelf that might work? I think my chances of replacing this
transformer are pretty nil, but does anyone know of a place to find
replacement small transformers?
Not the cheapest at $68.00 each, but I've used Gorilla's as wide
range DC input supplies many times. All the old 1200, 1400 and 1800
Amp G__Zillas had a Gorilla inside.
You would need three 5V ones with outputs in series to get your 15V.
http://www.cosel.co.jp/en/products/yas-yaw/pe_yas10.html
You can get them from Allied:
http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=800-1905&SEARCH=yas1005&ID=&MPN=YAS1005E&DESC=YAS1005E
They use 400V caps internally, and I have run them up close to that.
Also the designer told me they are not harmed by undervoltage. They
turn on at about 62 Volts and will run down to 45V or so, but
probably will not provide full power under about 95V. (It's been many
years since I ran the tests and back then my notes were on paper
which I no longer use). That's why I suggest the 10W versions which
will only be loaded 50%.
You could also look into Astrodyne ones. I've had some noise
susceptibility issues with other Astrodyne board level DC-DCs, so I
shy away from them. Still, they are probably cheaper. Be sure to get
the universal input AC models in order to handle the wide DC input
range.
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a thought here but when i was at the auto parts store, i found a welder
that was dc, with controlable current and voltage.
Would it be a pain to start with something like that or simpler to start from
scratch? What do you look for in somthing like this, duty cycle? avail voltage?
Current?
Comments?
Thanks, Paul
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I searched the archives for an answer to this but found little. What is the
practice with on board battery chargers. Should they be disconnected from the
pack when operating the vehicle?
Maybe with a contactor or ac operated relay?
thanks
paul
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I haven't tried it yet but this guy with four 6volt
traction batteries should do a similiar job:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47910
--- paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just a thought here but when i was at the auto parts
> store, i found a welder that was dc, with
> controlable current and voltage.
> Would it be a pain to start with something like
> that or simpler to start from scratch? What do you
> look for in somthing like this, duty cycle? avail
> voltage? Current?
> Comments?
> Thanks, Paul
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a
> breeze.
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is a great clamp!
mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I haven't tried it yet but this guy with
four 6volt
traction batteries should do a similiar job:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47910
--- paul wiley wrote:
> Just a thought here but when i was at the auto parts
> store, i found a welder that was dc, with
> controlable current and voltage.
> Would it be a pain to start with something like
> that or simpler to start from scratch? What do you
> look for in somthing like this, duty cycle? avail
> voltage? Current?
> Comments?
> Thanks, Paul
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a
> breeze.
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to all EV'ers who are interested in the US Electricar.
(please forward this message if you know of an owner!)
After a long time trying to become member of the other
Yahoo group for US Electricars and trying to get the
attention of the owner (Bruce Parmenter) to appoint a
moderator for that group or transfer ownership - without
ever receiving a reply,
it now has become time to make a fresh start and allow
new and existing owners of US Electricars (S-10 and Prizm)
to join, share their experience, learn from others and
have fun while keeping or bringing their EVs on the road!
You can find more information at the group website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/uselectricar/
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
Did you check the resistance of this transformer winding
to ALL the transformer's other pins?
Sometimes the winding order is not reflected in the pinning...
Alternative would be to add a winding yourself - this is tedious
work but the number of turns is usually limited for HF switching
transformers, you can try this by wrapping a few turns around it
and measuring the AC voltage, then calculating the nr of turns
to get the proper voltage.
If you want to generate auxiliary 15V DC, then I suggest a switching
power supply (wall brick) that takes 110 - 240V AC to supply
15V 1A and hook that up to the pack voltage.
Note: old Toshiba laptop supply is 15V 3A IIRC.
Let me know if you want me to ship you one.
Great progress on the Dolphin!
Success debugging,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 6:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Figured out the Dolphin problem, now need a weird DC-DC....
Well, as some people may know, I have a US_Electricar Prizm, and have
been given a truck with a dead Dolphin. So now I am highly motivated to
fix these things.
I've sat down and worked on it, and now I know why it's dead: Basically
there is a variable power supply inside there that takes anything from
120 volts DC rectified thru 400 volts DC (battery at max possible
trickle) and runs it thru a power MOSFET and switcher circuit to a
little transformer.
The other sides of this transformer provide the +5,-5,+15,-15 through a
set of simple diodes and regulators. Thus you get nice isolated power
for all your telemetry circuits.
Well, one of these (+15) is dead. Further checking shows that the
transformer has a burned out winding on that leg. Terrific.
Now of course I have to make repairs. What I need is a DC-DC converter
that can take anything from 100 volts up to 400 volts and put out a
rock-solid 15 volts at about 1 amp. I can then attach this to the
Dolphin at the point of the existing voltage regulator and let it go to
town.
Before I go building this myself, does anyone know of something
off-the-shelf that might work? I think my chances of replacing this
transformer are pretty nil, but does anyone know of a place to find
replacement small transformers?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
Do what my uncle did years ago, and make your own out of tin cans!
Recycling!!!
OK ,,, I sent Mike a old micro wave trans formor 1500 (?) w and
another one that looks like it would work better , with many taps and heavy
wire. also a ac motor cap 5uf and 35 uf , 2 35 amp 1000 v bridge rectifier,
2 SCR's 10amp 400v . . Yes I'm cleaning up , ,Mike says that in Alaska
they don't have old micro wave ovens laying all over and when you
think of a sphere spinning , it dose look like all the junk would roll to
the equator , now I'm send it back to the pole , I think Mike could make
something , but
not with tin cans :-) , I know there are a few ways with these parts that
one could build a charger , Can mike do it , , :-?
. what might be best is to have the different circuits that
people are thinking about on a web site so the people who want input or give
ideas can all be on the same page ( and read the somatic) . Then when this
talk about bad boys come
up , there be a web page with this info . If nobody wants to do it , then I
will on the www.grassrootsev.com . I think that wanting to save on money
with the charger is a common thing , and as much as I like the PFC chargers
there are people buying one part at a time , If they wait till they have the
money for the charger , they will be another year doing there project ,
where getting it on the road with a bad boy , and finding out about what
EV's are about while saving for a green box might be the way to go.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
mike golub wrote:
> So can you just buy the "plates" that exist in the
> transformer?
> Who sells them?
I'm sure companies must make them, and sell them to transformer
manufacturers. But they'd be buying laminations by the ton. I don't know
of anyone who would sell you a just a few dozen laminations.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are we talking about a battery charger or welder? I had a friend who made
one with the batteries , and I welded with it often , I liked it better the
my ac buss box welder . he had a peace of no 12 wire about 20 feet long (
coiled up ) and would tap in along it to get different power settings .
steve clunn
Ps Harbor freight also sell the ground and stabber with leads at a price
that is lass that what I pay for welding cable the same length, but they
don't say the gage. .
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul wiley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: battery charger building
That is a great clamp!
mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I haven't tried it yet but this guy
with four 6volt
traction batteries should do a similiar job:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47910
--- paul wiley wrote:
Just a thought here but when i was at the auto parts
store, i found a welder that was dc, with
controlable current and voltage.
Would it be a pain to start with something like
that or simpler to start from scratch? What do you
look for in somthing like this, duty cycle? avail
voltage? Current?
Comments?
Thanks, Paul
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a
breeze.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had just read that "Universal Electric Vehicles" is going to produce 20
"beta test" versions of their Electrum Spyder.
http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/spyder.html
I am curious: is this car a conversion? What is its' drive system?
I searched the archives and found no information. I wonder why it hasn't
been mentioned on this list before...
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Paul,
It is best to have a isolation dc contactors between the battery charger and
battery pack that would be size for the maximum ampere of the battery
charger. Also another set of dc contactors between the battery pack and the
main contactor and controller. Sometimes these are call safety contactors
which also acts as a back up if your controller circuit fails.
I even have a AC contactor that is between the on board chassic mounted 60
amp GFCI 2 pole circuit breaker and the on board charger.
Every time the AC input plug is inserted in to the receptacle, this AC
contactor is on which has a normally close micro switch or a power pole
attach to it to keep the 12 vdc controller ignition circuit off. This may
either control by a six pin ac plug which has two small pins that is jumper
in the plug. This operates the coil of the AC input contactor.
You could also have a plunger type micro switch that can operated every time
the receptacle cover is open.
In my first EV, a 1976 Transformer I, they did not have the input AC
contactor and a isolation contactor between the charger and battery pack.
There was only one safety contactor between the battery pack and the
controller. There was no AC input plug interlock where I would at times
drive off dragging the power cord.
The DC-DC unit which was a Honeywell motor generator that provided 14 volts
DC and work as a motor to run accessories had one power lead coming off the
main contactor and the other one coming directly from the battery.
Also the motor controller had the DC positive coming off the main contactor
and the DC negative coming off the main battery pack.
After about a 1000 miles of running, we found that when the battery charger
not only had it voltage of 315 volts suppress on the battery pack, but was
on the main motor and motor generator. There was arc over from the
commentators to the motor shaft in both units which took out the motor
generator and I had to remove the main motor commentator to clean and have
it turn.
I than received this EV as a research grant to make improvements as I listed
as above.
Another improvement I made, was to isolated the battery charger and
batteries from the frame of the EV. The batteries were in epoxy coated
aluminum boxes and the battery charger was in contact with the frame of the
vehicle. Charging the batteries, I would read the full charging voltage
from any one battery terminal to the frame of the vehicle.
You could also see voltage arc tracking when it was dark. Could not see this
arcing during the day. This is a test that all EV'ers should do.
I then install the battery pack in a acid proof epoxy coated 1/4 inch thick
fiberglass boxes with a gasket cover. The battery charger compartments are
also made out of epoxy coated 1/4 inch tick fiberglass. The only thing that
is AC grounded is the battery charger case.
The input receptacle is also a isolated grounded type, not a self grounding
type.
The battery enclosures have a explosive proof 150 cfm exhaust fan ( or you
can used a totally enclose all plastic fan where the plastic should be acid
proof). The fan exhaust ducts are made out of acid proof 1/4 inch thick PVC
solid and/or flexible pipe.
There is also a cooling input fan of 150 cfm that pressurized the charger
compartments. The input and exhaust ports of the fan ducts should be
position so there is not battery fumes coming into the charger compartment.
My exhaust port exits under the car like a exhaust pipe. If I'm charging in
side a building, I can run a exhaust hose out through the garage door.
While the battery exhaust fan is on, I can pull in 70 degree plus air
through the batteries and exit to the outside.
Another advantage of a seal battery enclosure is that I can set the
batteries on a 1 inch thick layer of baking soda. Today, the batteries are
still super clean, the enclosure which is bright white does not have that
yellow ting to it.
All the battery terminals which I change to gold plated, are as bright as
the day I install them.
There is 0 volts from any component to the frame of the vehicle.
The only thing, is that if you are standing bare footed in a puddle of water
and touching any one of the battery terminals while the batteries are
charging, this will trip the GFCI circuit breaker.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul wiley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evdl" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:45 AM
Subject: on board battery chargers---to disconnect or not
> I searched the archives for an answer to this but found little. What is
> the practice with on board battery chargers. Should they be disconnected
> from the pack when operating the vehicle?
> Maybe with a contactor or ac operated relay?
> thanks
> paul
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI-
That was Gary's email address, sorry my mistake. He has know web site.
F.T.
> [Original Message]
> From: Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 3/4/2006 10:15:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Continuation of Coco Loto at Seattle Rod and Custom Show
>
> Anyone with updates can post them here...
> http://www.seattleeva.org/wiki/EVents_2006_03_04
>
> So I went looking around for his site and didn't come up with much.
> This is as close as I could get, but maybe this is old news:
> http://www.nwmotorsportsexpo.com/coolstuff.htm
> Some of the cool stuff happing is Gary owner of Longley Motorsport
> Marketing is bringing a *Coors Original NASCAR simulator* to the expo
> where you will have an opportunity to sit inside a real Busch Grand
> National race car simulator and race around the track.
>
> Gary owner of Longley Motorsports is a company that displays different
> forms of racing as a marketing tool for various corporations through out
> the northwest. Gary has been involved in racing since the age of 10 and
> has been racing cars himself for 15 years and owns seven race cars.
> Garys wife Vanita races boats on the APBA circuit and has several wins
> along with a world record run at Lake Lawrence in 2004 and has plans of
> touring all over the country in 2005.
>
> *Longley Motorsports will also have on display their Coors Light legend
> car along with the first built electric 120v legend car built with the
> assistance of well known electric car builder Don Crabtree.* The new
> electrical legend car set a new world record at the Woodburn drag strip
> in 2004 and Longley Motorsports has plans to race it in the 2005 NEDRA
> drag race series. Longley Motorsports will also be displaying their
> Tecate late model car at the Northwest Motorsports Expo.
>
> Mark Farver wrote:
>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> P.S. to my previous message: Gary Longley's website is
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Hum.. that doesn't look like a valid URL and its not
> > www.garylongley.com or similar.
> > I don't think Juno offers hosting space for its customers.
> > You'll need to double check that address.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would also question why this 15V output is bad.
It may have just died on its own or it could be one of
the gate drive supplies to the inverter.
You should have 15vdc for the low side IGBT's and 3
independent isolated 15Vdc outputs for the high side
IGBT's (I'm not familiar with your control, so it may
not be setup this way. You can also have 3
independent transformers that isolate the high side
supplies).
Check all of your IGBT's to make sure they are still
good. If they are out of the circuit you should have
several megohms of resistance between collector and
emitter. You should also have several megohms between
the gate and emitter.
Check your power components before spending a bunch of
money on the supply.
Good luck,
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And where are they getting their Nickel Zinc batteries from?
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I had just read that "Universal Electric Vehicles" is going to produce 20
> "beta test" versions of their Electrum Spyder.
> http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/spyder.html
>
> I am curious: is this car a conversion? What is its' drive system?
>
> I searched the archives and found no information. I wonder why it hasn't
> been mentioned on this list before...
>
>
>
>
> Don
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't understand the advantages and disadvantages of parallel strings and
buddy pairs. Would someone be gracious enough to explain this?
Best regards,
Mark Freidberg
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a note...
When I was in my high school electronics class, we made our own
transformers for a metal detector. We had a stack of steel pieces, about 1
1/2" wide by 4" long, and a winder. We did the math for the number of turns,
then used the winder to wind the enameled wire onto 2 pieces of steel. The
rest of the pieces were stacked up and we used screws and nuts in the
corners. This was 35 years ago, so my memory may be misleading. YMMV.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
I have an inferiority complex, but its not a very good one.
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>; "jon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:19 AM
Subject: Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
Do what my uncle did years ago, and make your own out of tin cans!
Recycling!!!
OK ,,, I sent Mike a old micro wave trans formor 1500 (?) w and
another one that looks like it would work better , with many taps and
heavy
wire. also a ac motor cap 5uf and 35 uf , 2 35 amp 1000 v bridge
rectifier, 2 SCR's 10amp 400v . . Yes I'm cleaning up , ,Mike says that
in Alaska they don't have old micro wave ovens laying all over and when
you
think of a sphere spinning , it dose look like all the junk would roll to
the equator , now I'm send it back to the pole , I think Mike could make
something , but
not with tin cans :-) , I know there are a few ways with these parts that
one could build a charger , Can mike do it , , :-?
. what might be best is to have the different circuits that
people are thinking about on a web site so the people who want input or
give
ideas can all be on the same page ( and read the somatic) . Then when
this talk about bad boys come
up , there be a web page with this info . If nobody wants to do it , then
I
will on the www.grassrootsev.com . I think that wanting to save on money
with the charger is a common thing , and as much as I like the PFC
chargers there are people buying one part at a time , If they wait till
they have the money for the charger , they will be another year doing
there project , where getting it on the road with a bad boy , and finding
out about what EV's are about while saving for a green box might be the
way to go.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
mike golub wrote:
> So can you just buy the "plates" that exist in the
> transformer?
> Who sells them?
I'm sure companies must make them, and sell them to transformer
manufacturers. But they'd be buying laminations by the ton. I don't know
of anyone who would sell you a just a few dozen laminations.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
paul wiley wrote:
> What is the practice with on board battery chargers. Should they be
> disconnected from the pack when operating the vehicle?
As a rule, most on-board chargers are left connected while driving.
However, there might be special-case reasons why you may want to
disconnect it:
- It may draw current from the pack when connected but not in use.
- If you have uncontrolled regen (such as an old aircrafter generator
for a motor and simple controller), the charger as well as the
battery pack might be exposed to very high voltages if you regen
into an already-full pack.
Or, you might *have* to leave it connected in certain cases:
- If the charger is really some kind of power supply, it may have
large filter capacitors on its output. It would arc aggressively
when you connect it, which is hard on the connectors and capacitors.
- A "smart" charger might need to remain connected, so its control
circuitry remains powered to sense battery condition.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
> I would also question why this 15V output is bad.
> It may have just died on its own or it could be one of
> the gate drive supplies to the inverter.
> Check all of your IGBT's to make sure they are still
> good.
I second this advice. An IGBT can blow with its gate shorted to its
collector. When this happens, it often destroys part or all of the gate
driver and its supply.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave wrote:
> When I was in my high school electronics class, we made our own
> transformers for a metal detector. We had a stack of steel pieces,
> about 1 1/2" wide by 4" long, and a winder. We did the math for the
> number of turns, then used the winder to wind the enameled wire onto
> 2 pieces of steel. The rest of the pieces were stacked up and we
> used screws and nuts in the corners. This was 35 years ago, so my
> memory may be misleading. YMMV.
Yes, that's an easy way to do it. The core is a square. All laminations
are identical rectangles, with a hole in one end. Stack them up in 4
piles, with the end with hole alternately sticking out
left-right-left-right. Wind the primary and secondary on two separate
stacks. Then connect them with the other two stacks, interleaving the
laminations so the holes line up. Bolt them together with the holes, and
voila; a transformer!
It's not quite as efficient as the E-I configuration (and so a bit
bigger and heavier), but a lot easier to build.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks John!
I HAVE had problems with squirrls, ask J Wayland about his RACOON
problems, but that shot takes the cake. My BB gun wouldn't done much for
BEARS! My feeder wire woulda busted before the bear got any ware NEAR the
feeder! My squeerls had a system:only ONE shinnied out on the wire. HE'd
shake down the feeder, for the guyz on the ground or just unhook it and let
it drop to the ground for a feeding frenzy of peronna proportions!
BTW was that YOUR feeder<g>!?
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 4:01 PM
Subject: Totally OT but... So you thought you had problems
> with squirrels in your bird feeder....
>
> http://www.geekbase.org/squirrelproblem
>
> Amazing. Nothing to do with EVs but this is just too sweet not to
> share.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
> A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
Emerson
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Freidberg writes:
>
> I don't understand the advantages and disadvantages of parallel strings
> and buddy pairs. Would someone be gracious enough to explain this?
Mark,
The main advantage is more battery capacity without going higher voltage,
with the associated extra cost. In my case, I needed about 1100lbs to
get a 30% battery weight in my Geo Prizm. That works out to 25-26 Optima
Yellow Tops. A series string of 25 YTs would be 300v nominal, and would
require 25 regulators ($45 each) and high voltage controller such as the
Z1K-HV. Adding a 26th battery would bump the controller to a Z1K-EHV.
Your charger also needs to be able to handle the higher pack voltage, as
well as the contactors, fuses, etc.
Going with 26 batteries in 13 pairs means I only need 13 regulators and a
lower cost controller (Z1K-LV).
The main drawback is more pack wiring. You need two, heavy wires between
batteries in each pair and then between pairs. It can turn into quite a
project to get the cables built/installed. You can see my wiring at the
OEVA meeting this Thursday.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Rod Hower wrote:
I would also question why this 15V output is bad.
It may have just died on its own or it could be one of
the gate drive supplies to the inverter.
Check all of your IGBT's to make sure they are still
good.
I second this advice. An IGBT can blow with its gate shorted to its
collector. When this happens, it often destroys part or all of the gate
driver and its supply.
*nod* Already done. It wasn't an IGBT that blew the big one, it was the
30 amp power MOSFets that are supposed to do the "clipping trick" on the
incoming rectified 120/240 when that exceeds battery voltage.
One of those FETs was blown sky-high and shorted. It's gate driver was
attached to a carbonized resistor, and was powered by a FET driver chip
and the 15 volt power supply.
This is more though than merely a short. The 7805 regulators
current-limit at 1.5 amps and are supposed to be able to deal with
shorts. My guess is when the fet went foom it dropped 240+ volts of DC
into this circuit which incinerated the resistor, then opened the
winding in the transformer.
I've replaced the FETs, drivers, and resistor. This is apparently not an
uncommon problem when you plug a DOlphin into 240 volts with a low pack.
We've been chatting about solutions on this one from time to time, best
one is to run a 240-208 xformer, or just use 110.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Freidberg wrote:
> I don't understand the advantages and disadvantages of parallel strings
> and buddy pairs. Would someone be gracious enough to explain this?
Basically, parallel strings and buddy pairs are workarounds, used when
you can't get the size battery you really want.
Ideally, you decide what pack voltage you want, and how much space and
weight you have for batteries. Then pick the smallest number of
batteries that gives you the desired voltage, weight, and size. This
will generally be the cheapest, simplest, and most reliable system.
But, it often happens that the "best" solution won't work for some
reason. The manufacturer doesn't make a battery in that size (you wanted
100ah, but their biggest is 50ah). Your physical space for batteries
forces a dimension (the best choice is 10" high, but you only have room
for 9"). Some other size battery is cheaper (because they sell more of
that size, or you can get a "deal" somewhere).
So, you use smaller batteries, but more of them. There are several
options:
- You can wire them all in series, and change your system voltage
accordingly. This forces a change in your motor, controller, charger,
etc.
- You can wire "N" of them in parallel (buddy pairs). Treat these
"buddies" as if they were a single battery with N times the capacity.
But now you have to deal with the problem that they may not share the
load equally, and may have charging problems.
- You can wire them into "N" series strings. Each string works
independently, so they automatically share the load equally and
have less charging problem. But you may need twice as much battery
monitoring, charging, and management hardware. For example, if you
use batery regulators, you need one per battery instead of one per
buddy pair.
- There are in-between solutions; for example, connect them in series
strings of 4, and then connect these 4-packs in parallel. This has
consequences mid-way between the two extremes (all in parallel, or
all in series strings).
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
The original post was for thoughts of using a welder as a basis for building
a battery charger. Mike sent the link to the clamp either in error (as i
suspect) or he misunderstood my question.
There are several "cheap" dc high amp welders out there. I dont know if the
voltage of them cann be increased enough to make it worthwhile to start with
something like a welder or build from scratch.
STEVE CLUNN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> mike golub wrote:>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47910
>
>
>
> --- paul wiley wrote:
>
>> Just a thought here but when i was at the auto parts
>> store, i found a welder that was dc, with
>> controlable current and voltage.
>> Would it be a pain to start with something like
>> that or simpler to start from scratch? What do you
>> look for in somthing like this, duty cycle? avail
>> voltage? Current?
>> Comments?
>> Thanks, Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Yahoo! Mail
>> Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a
>> breeze.
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>>
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Ralph.
The main drawback is more pack wiring. You need two, heavy wires between
batteries in each pair and then between pairs.
This is the buddy pair configuration right?
What are the advantages/disadvantages of buddy pairs versus parallel
strings?
Two parallel strings are basically two series strings with no connections
between the two strings save for the two ends of the strings right?
Thanks to the generosity of a fellow EVer I now have some 40ah Yuasa SLAs (and
cabling too) ready for installation in my Geo. I'm hoping to have it at the
OEVA meeting this Thursday. My thought was to wire up 2 120v series strings and
connect the positive ends of both strings to the positive battery box cable and
the negative ends of both strings to the negative battery box cable. This is
basically a parallel string setup right?
I might even do 144 volt strings depending on whether to use my 30 amp
Russco's buck/booster long-term. The Curtis controller is well-cooled with a
large heatsink plus fan under. Is 144v still pushing the envelope?
BTW the Geo is up on the EV Photo album now:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/701.html
Best regards,
Mark Freidberg
Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mark Freidberg writes:
>
> I don't understand the advantages and disadvantages of parallel strings
> and buddy pairs. Would someone be gracious enough to explain this?
Mark,
The main advantage is more battery capacity without going higher voltage,
with the associated extra cost. In my case, I needed about 1100lbs to
get a 30% battery weight in my Geo Prizm. That works out to 25-26 Optima
Yellow Tops. A series string of 25 YTs would be 300v nominal, and would
require 25 regulators ($45 each) and high voltage controller such as the
Z1K-HV. Adding a 26th battery would bump the controller to a Z1K-EHV.
Your charger also needs to be able to handle the higher pack voltage, as
well as the contactors, fuses, etc.
Going with 26 batteries in 13 pairs means I only need 13 regulators and a
lower cost controller (Z1K-LV).
The main drawback is more pack wiring. You need two, heavy wires between
batteries in each pair and then between pairs. It can turn into quite a
project to get the cables built/installed. You can see my wiring at the
OEVA meeting this Thursday.
Ralph
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I dont know how this would fit with a huge battery box, but it is cool for
tilting the bed on the pick up.
http://loadhog.com/
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
--- End Message ---
