EV Digest 5236
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: New electric motocross bike by Electricross
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: GFCI again (Was: Re: Charging outlet - what is common?)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: EV Photo Album Upgrade
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: NO ATTACHMENTS PLEASE
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Geezzzzz - A day Late and a Pound Short. Seattle Rod and Custom Show
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV Photo Album Upgrade
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EV Photo Album - Wish LIST
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Air Conditioning on 72VDC
by Jim Walls <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) change License plate was Re: EV Photo Album Upgrade
by "Tom Carpenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) article: EEStor Capacitors- "This could change everything"
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) EEStor ceramic ultra capacitors (long - sorry)
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Hub motor stator repair?
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV Photo Album - Wish LIST
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV Photo Album Upgrade
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EVLN(HyMotion's PHEV kit)-long
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EEStor ceramic ultra capacitors (long - sorry)
by "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery connections assistance sought ( was: What are the + and - of
parallel strings and buddy pairs?)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: NO ATTACHMENTS PLEASE
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: NO ATTACHMENTS PLEASE
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
Don'tcha just love the smell of vaporware in the air?
Let me get this straight. They're selling a motocross bike, a tool
for plowing through mud and muck and whatnot with an exposed, OPEN
FRAME motor and an exposed controller?
John is WAY out in left field on this one (stuck in the mud maybe?).
Etek based motorcycles are being made in limited production. There are a
number of production examples including the Blade, the Electric GPR, the
Jackal, and others. There are countless conversions and customs based on
the ETEK/Alltrax combo as well. It's a solid combination that translates
into reliable service and great performance.
And a "dirt bike" can have an open frame. It's not going to fall apart.
The controller is an Alltrax (sealed), so it being exposed is no biggie.
They did not represent this as being a "tool for plowing through mud and
muck". They represented this as a "motocross" mini-bike. BIG
difference.
Hope this helps!
-Ken Trough
V is for Voltage
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, the neutral and hot leg is switch off either by a GFCI receptacle or
GFCI circuit breaker. The GFCI single pole circuit breaker has a switch
neutral that has a white wire coming out of it. It looks like a two pole
circuit breaker. A GFCI two pole circuit breaker disconnects only two hot
legs which does not require a neutral leg. You are not permitted to run a
neutral leg from the neutral bar with a 2 pole GFCI circuit breaker that
does not have a neutral break.
You must run another single pole GFCI to the circuit that requires only 120
volts, even its in the same enclosure as the 240 volt device that is GFCI
protected.
When we wire up multiple GFCI receptacles on two legs, two phases or three
phase circuits, we can run one neutral circuit for every three legs, or
which we call Line 1, Line 2 and Line 3.
If we have a GFCI receptacle on each Line, than we can have one common
neutral connected to the line side of the recepticle.
Coming out of the load side of the GFCI recepticle or circuit breaker, you
must keep the load side neutral separate from the other neutrals and the
line feed neutral.
The feed neutral from the circuit breaker panel is designated a white color.
The load side neutral from a GFCI device has a tracer color, which will be
the same color of the hot or Line conductor in residential wiring. In
commercial wiring, we will had the load conductors with a tracer or even a
different color, because we will have 10 wires to keep track up.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: GFCI again (Was: Re: Charging outlet - what is common?)
> That's the question I have...
>
> Does the GFCI break both the hot and neutral? Or just the hot.
>
> I ask this because somewhere along the line, here in the US anyway, the
> neutral and ground are bonded together, usually in the main box or at the
> meter panel. So if the GFCI does not break the neutral then it is still
> connected to pack negative. Which then connects pack negative to the
> chassis and will result in any number of voltages available from within
> the pack to chassis and ground.
>
>
>
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
>
>
>
>
>
> Original Message -----------------------
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Evan Tuer
> Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 3:37 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: GFCI again (Was: Re: Charging outlet - what is common?)
>
> On 3/6/06, Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hmmm.... let's think about Evan's circuit for a minute....
> >
> > He said it was a bad-boy and the chassis and battery boxes were grounded
> (earthed).
> >
> > Typically the ground path is not broken by the breakers, so the
> > chassis and battery boxes still would have been grounded even if the
> > GFCI had tripped. The > GFCI is on the input side of the charger, so
> > the output of the charger does not get broken by the GFCI. So even if
> > the GFCI did trip, so what. The AC is broken and the charger is no
> > longer putting out. BUT, the pack is still connected and now being
> referenced to ground. So there is a potential 120+ VDC connection to grab
> you.
> >
> > Am I wrong?
>
> Hmm, I don't see how the pack would be "referenced" to ground?
> I agree, if the breaker had tripped, the earth connection remains, but
> both
> the live and neutral would both be disconnected - so the pack wouldn't be
> connected to anything (except me!) in that case.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
I would like to be able to query by type of motor, controller, voltage, etc.
That way, someone planning a conversion with, for example, an 8 inch ADC
motor, could call up all conversions using that particular motor. Same with
AC systems (metricmind or solectria or ?), DC controllers (for example, all
conversions using the Zilla 1K), etc. I believe being able to query like
this and not just by make of donor would help those contemplating a
conversion.
Dave
----Original Message Follows----
From: Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: EV Photo Album Upgrade
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:07:58 -0600
Hi folks,
As most of you are no doubt aware, I operate a website called the EV Photo
Album, accessible at http://evalbum.com or http://www.austinev.org/evalbum
The EV Album site is hosted by a member of the Austin EV club, Aaron Choate,
as a service to the EV community. Thanks again Aaron!
I can't remember exact when I originally created the Album, probably in late
1998 or early 1999. At any rate, from its tiny beginnings back on GeoCities
it has expanded into a monster of 850 plus pages of HTML and over 6800
images with 705 individual EVs included. Of course at this size it is well
past the point where I should have moved on to more advanced methods than
simple HTML. Fortunately, Jerry Halstead and Seth Rothenberg have stepped
up to help me move the Album up out of the dark ages. Seth has pulled the
existing data from the web and Jerry is building the database and writing
the code to make it all work. I am almost done scrubbing the data from Seth
to make it all consistent.
Now, my question is what, as users, would you like to see the EV Album do
that it doesn't do now? Faster additions? That is in the works. More
advanced searches, that too, but if you can tell me exactly what you want it
to do we can make sure it does that, if possible. So, what do you want?
For those of you who have an Album page already and want to make an update,
if you could hold off for a bit while we get this conversion worked out,
then we will only have to fix it once and you will only have to review it
once. I am still adding pages at this point, hopefully that won't be
affected.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
Webmaster: EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
Webmaster: Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
See my Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme position.
(Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 06:07:40PM -0500, Neon John wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 14:53:28 -0600 (CST), "Chris Robison"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I'm all for keeping the EVDL exactly as it is -- the mailing list
> >we're all familiar with.
Agreed.
>
> I don't see the problem to be fixed re: attachments. yeah, every so
> often someone sends one. Big deal.
Some people have to pay by the byte for Internet access, attachments hurt them
the most.
> >
> >I think we all appreciate SJSU's efforts but a bent screwdriver, donated
> >kindly and earnestly though it might have been, is still a bent
> >screwdriver. You can get by with it, but there should be no hard feelings
> >when you eventually want to try to find another.
If we do end up with a new list address, we can just add the old list as a
subscriber to the new list, then people can continue to read this version of
the list through the same old system they've been using. I'm not sure if
you would be able to preserve posting to the SJSU list though.
>
> what kind of failures are you talking about? Admittedly I do merely
> scan the titles of many posts and don't read the bodies but I haven't
> noticed any loss in continuity on this end.
There have been a few instances in the past couple of months where
delivery to the list has been delayed by up to 3 or 4 days.
> I have a parallel list set up for binaries, a "-bin" list. For this
> list it could be called "evdlbin".
This is a workable solution, and has the advantage that the current list is not
affected. But there is an even better solution to this problem.
Mailman can strip attachments, and re-export them itself. For example, if you
were to send an email to a Mailman list that was so configured, the text
portion of your message will make it to the list as normal, but the attachment
would be striped and replaced with a URL in the form of
"http://mailman_server/somepath/messageid/attachment";.
This system has the advantage that you can just send attachments that are
interesting to the list without having to worry about having to put the file
up on a web server first, or having to remember a special posting procedure.
> I use yahoo for my -bin list. It is fast and can handle the high
> volume. If you subscribe as a non-HTML reader then the obnoxious ads
> don't get sent.
One other downside to this issue is that the binaries are lost once they have
been posted and the email sent. The Mailman solution allows the attachments
to persist in the archives.
Also, no obnoxious ads by default. :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure wish some one would have POSTED this to the Local SEVA e-mail list.
Dave Cloud just told me it WAS up on the EVDL... But I go thru all the
posts so fast, I guess I missed it.
But if it Had been posted to the SEVA e-mail list, it would have come to
all of us as an individual e-mail message. Would have LOVED to see
the Golf Cart Wheeleys...staged and Helped by the folks from "Monster
Garage".. Well, not so glad about the idiot going side ways into the
crowd, and hitting spectators and a parked car.....
( Hope no one was seriously hurt... BAD EV PR )
As Dave relates the story, the driver could not be talked into wearing a
helmet. Guess he thought EVs were Tame Animals... (WRONG) Then some
one else said..." if she Wheeleys, hang on to the wheel and come down
straight ! Guess on the third wheeley, he came down with the wheels
cocked and went sideways into the bystanders, at 20 mph... ending up
into a parked car.
Any one get video, or still pictures ? ? ? ?
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One thing I would like to see, is a US/World map of ev locations.
We've set up a global EV map not too long ago. Check it out at:
http://frappr.com/ev
Open to all EV individuals, companies, and organizations. No
registration necessary. Totally free. Almost 200 members so far.
Hope this helps!
-Ken Trough
V is for Voltage
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM/YM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike... Great EV asset and research tool. MY WISH is that a direct
link to the EV Album, AND the EV Trading POST were ON the EAA web site.
It's a NATURAL for folks just getting started, and I cant tell you
how often I have pointed Newbees in your direction. Mostly to get an
idea of the length and bredth of EV Posibilities...
What Gives with the EAA.... Have you ever tried. Is there some issue?
It really should be on their web site under EV Assets... or something.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
<snip>
and the bigger buildings in this town use ice to
time shift their AC.
My church does that, but it takes a HUGE amount of ice. The ice cubes
(as we call them - there are 2) are each at least 30 feet in diameter
and 10 feet or so deep - if I did the math right, that's over 400 tons
of ice! They do all right for a rather large church campus. They guy
that manages the facilities is VERY stingy about turning rooms on which
leads me to believe there is not really enough ice. It's very annoying
when I come in at 2:00PM or so to mix sound for a 4:00 PM wedding in
August and find the building about 100 degrees and the AC does not come
on until 1/2 hour before the 4:00 PM scheduled start time - temp is down
to about 98 at the start time for the wedding. What a mess when one leaked!
--
73
-------------------------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ofc: 818-548-4804
http://home.earthlink.net/~k6ccc
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just ordered my personal plate
WATTZUP
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 4:19 PM
Subject: RE: EV Photo Album Upgrade
I took my 65 Datsun truck, to a quarry when I first bought it and had it
weighed. They didn't even charge me.
Came in at 2180 lbs.
When I get into stripping out components, I am going to buy a cheap 300lb
bathroom scale and weigh each component as I remove it.
This should give me a fairly close glider weight.
When I finish my conversion, I will go back to the quarry for a final
weight.
On another note, if anyone wants to see what their personalized license
plate will look like, I found this cool website:
http://www.acme.com/licensemaker/
I plan on naming my truck WATTSUN, but I can't use that on the plate
because
MO limits you to 6 letters or numbers.
I either have to go with WATTSN or WATSUN.
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Chancey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 10:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV Photo Album Upgrade
David Dymaxion wrote:
I love the evalbum, it sounds like it is going to get even better.
We aim to serve.
I'd like something that would list data in columns, so multiple
conversions can be compared. Each line could be a conversion, and each
column things like motor, controller, voltage, etc.
I believe that is the plan, but I am not the one writing the code.
I'd vote for columns for 0-60 mph time, 1/4 mile time, 1/4 mile speed,
and top speed (already there). Another handy column would be "Stripped
donor weight." It is fairly easy to get a gasoline car's weight, but
harder to find out what the glider weighs once it is stripped for
conversion.
Stripped donor weight? Does anyone ever know what that is? I know once I
pulled the engine on my Civic it didn't leave the garage until completed.
I
doubt most folks would have that info. I think you could probably work
out
fairly well what it was by adding up all the parts and subtracting that
from
the finished weight. BTW, 20% of the entries do not have the weight field
filled in at all.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com My Electric Car at:
http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org Join the EV List at:
http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position.
(Horace)
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/3/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another company that may soon be ready to produce EV sized super-capacitors:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/03/eestor_capacito_1.php
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I fwd'ed a news item to the ECDL back in November:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/53462
Tyler Hamilton writes in the Toronto Star about "Energy Technologies",
and from some of his recents writings, I like to think he is
EV-friendly...
Anyway, his column today in the Star, with more on EEStor:
(Original URL here:)
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1141599010468&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Columnist971715454851
(or tinyURL here:)
http://tinyurl.com/ff8hh
Battery power as good as gas?
A much-shrouded idea could give portable power a real charge, for a
change and change, well, everything
Mar. 6, 2006. 07:12 AM
TYLER HAMILTON
Imagine the day when cellphones charge up in seconds, laptop batteries
never degrade, and electric cars have the same power, driving range and
purchase price as their gas-powered cousins.
It's a consumer's dream and an engineer's fantasy: Safe, affordable and
eco-friendly batteries that can store immense amounts of energy, allow
for lightning-fast charging, and handle virtually unlimited discharging
with little affect on quality.
Such a battery a superbattery doesn't exist today, but a tiny
company out of Austin, Texas, is getting remarkably close, and the
possibilities have caught the attention of the U.S. army, the former
vice-chairman of Dell Computer, and one of the most respected venture
capital firms in North America.
Not much is known about awkwardly named EEStor Inc., and the company
prefers to keep it that way. It has no website. Hits on Google are
remarkably low. And as far as requests from the media are concerned,
the company makes its position crystal clear: Go away.
"EEStor is not making public statements at present time," company
co-founder and chief executive Richard Weir replied when the Toronto
Star requested an interview via email. "EEStor would also like to have
you and your paper not publish any articles about our company and the
Toronto Star is certainly not authorized to publish this response."
The Mission Impossible secrecy is understandable, given what's at
stake. Despite advances in other fields, there have been no dramatic
improvements in battery capacity in the two centuries since Italian
physicist Alessandro Volta invented the technology.
Energy storage has long been the bottleneck for innovation, holding
back new energy-sucking features in mobile devices and preventing
everything from the electric car to renewable power systems from
reaching their full potential. Build a radically better battery at
lower cost, experts say, and the world we know will be forever
transformed.
"There's been nothing big or disruptive, and we're due for it," says
Nicholas Parker, chairman of the Cleantech Venture Network, which
tracks investment in so-called clean technologies. He says energy
storage is one of the hottest areas for venture capital funding right
now. "Right across the board, better energy storage is essential."
Among EEStor's claims is that its "electrical energy storage unit"
could pack nearly 10 times the energy punch of a lead-acid battery of
similar weight and, under mass production, would cost half as much.
It also says its technology more than doubles the energy density of
lithium-ion batteries in most portable computer and mobile gadgets
today, but could be produced at one-eighth the cost.
If that's not impressive enough, EEStor says its energy storage
technology is "not explosive, corrosive, or hazardous" like lead-acid
and most lithium-ion systems, and will outlast the life of any
commercial product it powers. It can also absorb energy quickly,
meaning a small electric car containing a 17-kilowatt-hour system could
be fully charged in four to six minutes versus hours for other battery
technologies, the company claims.
According to patent documents obtained by the Star, EEStor's invention
will do no less than "replace the electrochemical battery" where it's
already used in hybrid and electric vehicles, power tools, electronic
gadgets and renewable energy systems, from solar-powered homes to
grid-connected wind farms.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------`The
stuff at MIT is a lot of hype . . . I've been working on ultracaps
since 1989, and I've seen an awful lot of water go under the bridge a
lot of technologies get hyped and then go away'
Andrew Burke, researcher at the University of California
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"If everything they say is true, then that's pretty amazing," says
MacMurray Whale, an energy analyst at Sprott Securities and a former
professor of mechanical engineering at the University of Victoria. "To
do all of that is unheard of when you look at any other battery
technology out there."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
EEStor's technology, to be accurate, isn't really a battery at all. In
techie speak it's a ceramic ultracapacitor with a barium titanate
dielectric. A mouthful to be sure, but what's important is that it's
designed to combine the superior storage abilities of a battery with
the higher power and discharge characteristics of an ultracapacitor.
Batteries, from the throwaway Energizer Bunny variety to the
nickel-metal hydride units in a Toyota Prius, are great for storing
large amounts of energy through chemical reactions, but they're
notoriously slow when it comes to absorbing and releasing that energy.
They're also sensitive to temperatures, made up of toxic materials, and
anyone who owns a digital camera, laptop, or handheld vacuum knows that
after draining and recharging a few hundred times the battery degrades
to the point of being useless.
On the other hand you've got ultracapacitors, based on an invention
that dates back to 1745. These little devices hold energy as an
electric charge and release it instantly as a power-packed jolt of
electricity not unlike the static shock you might get after walking
on a rug and touching a metal doorknob. Ultracapacitors, unlike
batteries, can also absorb a charge as fast as they release it.
And they're also "green," in the sense that they contain no nasty
chemicals and aren't made of toxic substances. Reliable in the coldest
winters and warmest summers, "ultracaps" can typically be cycled that
is, completely discharged and recharged more than a million times,
outlasting any iPod or that electric scooter in your garage.
"After nearly two centuries in which batteries have been the obvious
choice for storing usable amounts of energy, high-end capacitors, known
as ultracapacitors, are poised to challenge them in a growing range of
applications," John Miller, an ultracap expert and former engineer with
Ford Motor Co., wrote in a recent essay.
The quick power burst that ultracaps provide is why they're already
showing up as a complement to batteries in hybrid-electric vehicles and
fuel cells in hydrogen-powered cars and buses, which benefit from the
extra kick that's needed to get from a stop-to-start position or to
assist in acceleration.
But completely replacing batteries, rather than just complementing
them, poses a much more difficult challenge. Ultracaps have
traditionally not been able to store as much energy as a battery. For
example, a lithium-ion battery where many of the advances in the
battery world are focused can typically store 25 times more energy
than the latest ultracapacitors of the same size made by market leaders
such as Maxwell Technologies Inc., NessCap Co. Ltd., and Epcos AG.
Last month, researchers at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology
announced they had achieved a breakthrough that could potentially
overcome these energy-storage limitations. Using carbon nanotube
structures, they claimed to have developed a way to improve by 100-fold
the energy storage capacity of ultracapacitors.
Andrew Burke, an ultracap expert and researcher at the University of
California at Davis, says there's no shortage of groundbreaking claims
but no one has been able to back them up with hard data or outside a
laboratory environment. And even if they get beyond the lab, the high
cost of manufacturing presents another barrier to overcome.
"The stuff at MIT is a lot of hype," says Burke. "They haven't tested
the material yet. Their claims are based on calculations and
assumptions about what these things are going to do.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------`If
everything they say is true, then that's pretty amazing. To do all of
that is unheard of when you look at any other battery technology out
there'
MacMurray Whale, energy analyst at Sprott Securities, former professor
of mechanical engineering
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"I've been working on ultracaps since 1989, and I've seen an awful lot
of water go under the bridge a lot of technologies get hyped and then
go away."
EEStor, on the other hand, appears well beyond the lab stage. Weir and
Carl Nelson, vice-president of engineering and technology, spent much
of the 1990s testing and developing manufacturing techniques and
processes to support their claims.
Weir, an electrical engineer who has worked at IBM Corp. and autoparts
giant TRW Inc., and Nelson, educated in chemistry and materials
sciences, have extensive experience in the fabrication of integrated
circuits and in the development of the kind of ceramic powder at the
core of EEStor's technology.
The details of their research are sketchy, but it involves a method of
processing, mass-producing and using barium titanate powder as an
insulator the dielectric helping EEStor's energy storage system
achieve a radical increase in voltage and energy storage without
compromising reliability.
Another key to this process is the ability to lower the cost of
production enough to become price-competitive with conventional battery
technology, itself a major feat.
By 2000, the co-founders were ready to build a prototype. It's
difficult to say how far EEStor's ultracap technology has evolved
since, but sources close to the firm say a working prototype has been
built and a production line is now creating prototypes on a batch
basis, in preparation for volume production.
The company, sources say, is weeks away from seeking independent
verification of the product's performance, which will be conducted by
the University of Texas at Austin or a U.S. army facility. If all goes
well, EEStor could be in preproduction this year and full production in
2007. During this time, potential customers from automakers and
military contractors to tool and electronics makers will get a closer
look at the product.
Burke remains skeptical. "I think it's nonsense. If they say they've
built something I want to see the test data. Until then, talk is
cheap."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Burke
isn't the only suspicious observer. Another engineer the Star consulted
had similar doubts. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof,"
says Neil McMurchie, a freelance engineer working in the Alberta oil
patch. "I find it hard to accept because the impact would be so
profound. It would really change everything in electronics and power
engineering."
Then again, he adds. "It just might work."
That possibility, that earth-shattering potential, has turned just as
many skeptics into believers a number of them highly credible. Last
fall, it was reported that venture capital powerhouse Kleiner Perkins
Caufield & Byers led a $3 million (U.S.) investment in EEStor.
Kleiner Perkins has a track record for picking winners. It made early
bets on Google, Sun Microsystems, Amazon.com, Netscape and a host of
other high-tech success stories that went on to become leaders of the
computing, Web and telecommunications sectors.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------`I've
been working on ultracaps since 1989, and I've seen an awful lot of
water go under the bridge a lot of technologies get hyped and then go
away'
Andrew Burke, ultracapacitor expert at the University of California
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Kleiner has done a hell of a lot of due diligence on this," says a
source close to EEStor, who asked not to be named.
John Doerr, a partner with Kleiner Perkins, reportedly told an audience
at an investors' conference in January that an energy storage company,
which he would not name, represented the VC's "highest-risk,
highest-reward" investment. It's widely assumed he was referring to
EEStor.
Adding more intrigue to the story is the fact that Colin Powell, the
former U.S. secretary of state, joined Kleiner Perkins last summer as a
strategic partner. Sources speculate Powell has been briefed on EEStor,
which from a government and military perspective could bolster the Bush
administration's energy security policy and efforts to break America's
"addiction to oil."
"It's one thing to have the greatest new technology, but another to get
it out into the field," says Richard Baxter, an energy-storage expert
and researcher at New York-based Ardour Capital Investments LLC, who
sees huge potential in ultracap technology. "Kleiner's great for
opening up the door."
Besides Kleiner's involvement, EEStor has also attracted big names to
its five-person board. The Star has learned that Morton Topfer, former
vice-chairman of Dell Computer Corp. and widely known as Michael Dell's
mentor, has joined the company as a director. Topfer founded and is
managing director of Austin-based private equity firm Castletop Capital
LP and has close and invaluable ties to big Texas money.
Michael Long, CEO of online real-estate giant Homestore Inc., is also
on the board. His experience with Homestore and as CEO of several
companies before that could prove useful as EEStor inches closer to
commercialization.
There's a Canadian angle to all of this. Before Kleiner's involvement,
EEStor struck a relationship with Toronto-based Feel Good Cars that has
translated into a $2.5 million (U.S.) licensing agreement. Feel Good
makes low-speed electric cars and wants to use EEStor's technology to
power its next-generation vehicles, which could hit the market as early
as 2007.
Ian Clifford, the company's co-founder and CEO, says he has secured
exclusive worldwide rights to purchase EEStor's product for use in any
vehicle up to 1,200 kilograms, about the size of a Honda Civic. It also
has non-exclusive rights to use the technology in other vehicles
excluding SUVs and pick-ups.
According to patent documents, EEStor describes the day when gas
stations evolve into "electrical energy stations" that store energy
overnight when electricity is cheap and sell it like gasoline during
daytime. Drivers could pull in and recharge their EEStor-powered car in
a few minutes the same way we now fill up with gasoline.
The company pegs the potential electric vehicle market at $40 billion
(U.S.) a year, but figures its total opportunity military, utility
and electronics markets approaches $150 billion.
Clifford is waiting anxiously for the results of independent testing,
which are expected this spring and will trigger another licensing
payment from Feel Good. "The implications of this technology go well
beyond transportation," says Clifford. "EEStor, for us, would be a
dream come true."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Clean
Break reports on energy technologies. Reach Tyler Hamilton at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have fixed the magnets on an electric start motor with StrongMend epoxy
(works better than JB Weld, in my opinion). The key is to get the parts
absolutely clean, and clamp the parts together tightly while the epoxy sets
up.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:57 PM
Subject: Hub motor stator repair?
> All:
>
> Well the 700 watt hub motor was clunking, and I swapped it out for a
> non-clunking copy.
>
> Now I've got the hub motor apart, and I can see what was clunking: two of
> the ten stator magnets are loose from the apparently aluminum stator
frame.
> I'm glad I replaced it!
>
> What adhesive will work to bond the stator magnets in place? I'm thinking
of
> superglue, or perhaps JB Weld.
>
> Any experience on this to share?
>
> Mark
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve you wrote:
Hi Mike... Great EV asset and research tool. MY WISH is that a
direct link to the EV Album, AND the EV Trading POST were ON the
EAA web site. It's a NATURAL for folks just getting started, and
I cant tell you how often I have pointed Newbees in your
direction. Mostly to get an idea of the length and bredth of EV
Posibilities...
What Gives with the EAA.... Have you ever tried. Is there some issue?
Actually, both the EV Album and the EV Tradin' Post are on their
links. I think they are working on a redo of their website, maybe we
can get more prominent billing. :)
Maybe I should make a couple of banners folks could run on their web sites.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
I would like to be able to query by type of motor, controller,
voltage, etc. That way, someone planning a conversion with, for
example, an 8 inch ADC motor, could call up all conversions using that
particular motor. Same with AC systems (metricmind or solectria or ?),
DC controllers (for example, all conversions using the Zilla 1K),
etc. I believe being able to query like this and not just by make of
donor would help those contemplating a conversion.
Dave
The search feature actually works pretty well to find what vehicles are
using what components. For example, type in the search (the link to the
search page for the EV Album is
http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=2232204) "Zilla", and you find
17 results.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce posted an EVDL news item March 1, about HyMotion:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/59800
I just wanted to point out that the site noted as the original url:
http://features.engadget.com/2006/02/24/hymotions-phev-battery-lets-you-plug-in-your-hybrid/
had quite a few comments added on February 24... you can read `em at
the bottom of the page after the article. Just a mention,`case anyone
here wanted to add to those comments.
Tks
Lock
Toronto
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
The patent application (US 20040071944A1) discusses a EESU (electrical
energy storage unit) that consists of 2320 ceramic capacitors connected in
parallel for a total capacitance of 31F. That means each cap is about
13.4mF. Which by itself isn't that impressive (e.g. Maxwell's caps go up to
2600F each).
>From the patent app.
Weight of EESU is 336 lbs
Volume of EESU 2005 in^3
Energy stored is 52kW-hr
So from a weight and volume point of view this pack is much better than
would an equivalent energy storage of lead acid batteries.
The trick is that they are rating their capacitor at 3500V (as opposed to
2.5V for Maxwell). So the example EESU yields about 52kW-hr (according to
the patent app). Which sounds great.... until you dig a bit more.
The first problem that I seeing is figuring out how to use 3500V with
conventional semiconductors. Certainly not an impossible task, but much
more difficult than your typical EV motor controller.
Another issue is that a user isn't going to be able practically extract all
the energy from the capacitor. Let's say a practical operating voltage is
2:1. So we allow the cap to discharge from 3500V to 1750V. So that reduces
the energy storage to about 39.6kW-hr. And you still have to solve the
first problem.
If the system voltage is reduced a more reasonable level, say 600V, and
discharge is allowed down to 300V the picture changes. The energy stored
now reduces to 1.16kW-hr. This is certainly much less than an equivalent
weight of lead acid would give.
So maybe they need to be quiet while they figure out how to make 3500V
inverters and chargers.
So now we have super high voltage ultracapacitors and super low voltage
ultracapacitors.
Regards,
Chris Brune
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lock Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: EEStor ceramic ultra capacitors (long - sorry)
> I fwd'ed a news item to the ECDL back in November:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/53462
>
> Tyler Hamilton writes in the Toronto Star about "Energy Technologies",
> and from some of his recents writings, I like to think he is
> EV-friendly...
>
> Anyway, his column today in the Star, with more on EEStor:
> (Original URL here:)
>
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1141599010468&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Columnist971715454851
> (or tinyURL here:)
> http://tinyurl.com/ff8hh
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Freidberg wrote:
> I've attached an Adobe .pdf file that gives the original testing
> specs on the Geo and also a photo that shows what the insides of
> the battery boxes look like.
Ouch! You took over my computer and phone line for almost an hour with
those attachments. Please don't attach things to emails on the evlist.
> There is plenty of room for 8-10 more in the top level of the main
> battery box... But then the lower level batts will not be accessible
> for digital VOM voltage checks... If I bundled the positives together
> and the negatives together and ran them out opposite ends of the
> battery box to separate "terminal blocks", fuses in between the batts
> and the terminal blocks would not be needed would they?
If the bottom 10 batteries are all connected in series, you only need
10+1=11 wires from them to measure any battery's voltage. These wires
connect to the most positive, most negative, and the 9 jumpers between
batteries. This gives you a wire to every positive and every negative
battery in the string (the + of one and the - of the next are the same
wire).
If there is any conceivable way for any of these wires to short to each
other or anything else, they have to be individually fused. The fuse
should be located close to the battery terminal (where it will be
difficult to get at). If you put it at the far end of each wire, then if
two wires in that cable short together, the fuse won't blow and you'll
have a fire (or worse).
Note that "fuse" can mean any part that is guaranteed to fail open
without starting a fire. It could be an actual fuse, or a circuit
breaker, resistor, thin wire chosen to melt, etc.
> It would be nice to be able to use the wire pairs not only for
> voltage checks but also for modular charging up to 12 amps per
> battery. What size wires should be used for the wire pairs?
For 12 amps continuous, you'd want about #14, or possibly #16 if it has
high temperature insulation.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Mar 2006 at 14:58, Chris Robison wrote:
> This is why we get "unsubscribe"
> messages being sent to the list - it's obviously not straightforward
> enough for some people.
The ones you see are a fraction of the total transactions taking place.
Most people do OK subscribing and unsubscribing. I contact the ones who are
obviously having problems and provide detailed instructions. That usually
takes care of it.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Mar 2006 at 14:53, Chris Robison wrote:
> The issue with stripping attachments is not a hard one
> to solve.
SJSU had problems a while back with the filter using too much CPU time and
slowing things down too much, so they disabled it until they could fix it.
They have a version now which has solved the piggishness, but there is one
other bug that still needs to be squashed. It should be back online soon.
Don't blame SJSU for the delay; blame me. Like any organization, they have
lots of stakeholders after them, and the ones that politely keep their
concerns in the foreground are waited on first. When I gently remind them
to follow up on these issues, they usually get done. I simply forgot about
this one.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
