EV Digest 5239
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Motor wiring
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Motor wiring
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Was: article: EEStor Capacitors- "This could change everything" More Stuff.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Fw: New electric motocross bike by Electricross
by "Neal Saiki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: NO ATTACHMENTS PLEASE
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Speaking of Attachments... A Bizzare Design Idea
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) New to Electric Motorcycle
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Fw: EV Photo Album Upgrade
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE; New to Electric Motorcycle
by "paul compton \(RRes-Roth\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Fw: EV Photo Album Upgrade
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: NO ATTACHMENTS PLEASE
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Small Bad Dumb Charger
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Fw: EV Photo Album Upgrade
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Fw:Suspensions. WAS , New electric motocross bike by Electricross
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Motor wiring
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Sailing and Sale-ing WAS (Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Dead NAPA Floodies (again)
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and all,
My Zilla manual on the other hand has B+, B- M+ and M- terminals with
connections:
Zilla M- to motor A1
motor A2 to motor field (would this be S2 on my advanced dc motor?)
other motor field to Zilla M+
Zilla B- to Pack -
Zilla B+ to Pack + (via contactor)
This is a good question, and one that I finally had to sit down and
figure out. You might already be familiar with the concept of a series
wound motor. The current flows through the armature windings and the
field windings. The armature windings are those with the A's, and the
S's for the series or field windings.
A1 to S1 or A2 to S2 should spin the motor in the same direction. This
should also be "normal" for most motors. To reverse the motor, you'd
connect A1 to S2 or A2 to S1. You won't damage anything as long as you
are connecting the A's to the S's. Now would things get damaged if you
connected the A's to the A's? It would pretty much be a direct short,
correct? Someone double check me on all this!
Does the zilla configuration give additional functionality such as
electric reverse?
To get electric reverse, you need the reversing contactor option, -A,
and a set of reversing contactors. Then it can perform electric reverse.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
John wrote:
I have been puzzled something for a while regarding wiring diagrams I
have seen.
Let's see if I can help clear it up for you.
Convert It (and other sources I have seen) show a controller with a
B+, B-, M- A2 terminals, with connections from
Controller A2 not used.
Controller B+ to pack + (via contactor)
Controller B- to pack -
Controller B+ to Motor A1
Motor A2 to Motor S2
and
Motor S1 to Controller M-
The above is for controllers that are 'low side switchers', in other
words, the transistors inside the controller pulse the negative side of
the pack. Curtis, the controller the 'Convert It' folks like to use, is
a low side switcher type. The A2 terminal is for 'plug braking' used
primarily in forklift applications where either a single large diode or
a bank of diodes inside the controllers goes across the motor's armature
to control the motor's reaction to being reversed while traveling to
slow the truck down. In a road going EV, we almost never use plug
braking, thus, it's 'not used' status. So, for the low side switcher,
one side of the motor is connected directly to the pack positive, while
the other side of the motor is connected to the controller's M- output,
where it gets its negative connection via PWM between the controller and
battery negative. The fact that the motor's A2 is connected to the
motor's S2 is merely the completion of the motor circuit that is the
norm for a series-wound motor, that is, one side of the armature (either
A1 or A2) is connected to one side of the series field coils (either S1
or S2) so that the remaining two terminals (in this case, A1 and S2) are
where you apply power to the motor to make it run.
My Zilla manual on the other hand has B+, B- M+ and M- terminals with
connections:
Zilla M- to motor A1
motor A2 to motor field (would this be S2 on my advanced dc motor?)
other motor field to Zilla M+
Zilla B- to Pack -
Zilla B+ to Pack + (via contactor)
The above is for controllers that are 'high side switchers', in other
words, the transistors inside the controller pulse the positive side of
the pack. The Zilla is a high side switcher type. Normally it would be
just like a Curtis, in that you would use just three connections, B+ and
B- for battery pack input, and the switched side as the M+ output to the
motor with the other terminal of the motor connected to battery minus.
The difference is, that the Zilla also has a built in shunt for
measuring motor loop current. Inside the controller, the shunt has one
side connected to the battery negative terminal, with the other end of
the shunt being the M- terminal that feeds the motor its battery negative.
Does the Zilla configuration give additional functionality such as
electric reverse?
Technically, not the Zilla controller itself, rather, the Zilla's
interface, the Hairball. The Hairball controls all contactor activation,
including optional F-R contactors. When using the optional F-R
contactors, the motor's two field terminals get wired to the contactors,
as does one of the motor's armature terminals, then the contactors
distribute the output of the controller appropriately. In addition to
F-R operation, the Hairball can also control series or parallel
contactors for running twin motors. The Hairball also controls
controller precharge and automatic engagement of the line contactor. The
Hairball also protects against a myriad of problems that other lesser
controller systems don't even address. The Zilla controller operates
silently, too. With a Zilla under your hood, the only squeal you'll hear
will be from the tires!
For the exact info, go here to read the owner's manual:
http://cafeelectric.com/products/zilla/Html/HB2Man.html
See Ya....John Wayland
Admission: sponsored by Cafe Electric and spoiled by Zilla excellence
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: article: EEStor Capacitors- "This could change everything"
> What they are doing in Austin with their Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers
> money is developing a "parallel plate capacitor with barium titanate as
the
> dielectric" or hypercapacitor. Cheaper than lead acid & more than twice
as
> powerful as lithium. Charges in a few minutes. Hmmmm April 1 is a bit
> away. However is anyone on the list working with this company?????
> Lawrence Rhodes.....
Hi EVerybody;
Heres a job for the Austin EV Guyz. Ride over, in an electric and check
them out! After skimmng through the Posts here. Ah! The old wind tunnel is
back! As well as the guy in MS that drives, and drives .....forEVer ,in an
EV that Never Needs Charging. Tilley?Where are you when we need you. If this
thing actually worked this guy would be somewhere along side Jimmy Hoffa,
Senior. Entertaining reading. Been followuing this stuff for about 40
years. Check out those mouldy , dusty Pop Science'es at Flee Markets and
garage(Garbage) sales. Been a long time coming!Love those Flux Crapaciters
in Back to the Future! I don't like to rain on anybody's parade, but as sed
above, April Fooks is coming. The description above,sounds like a few lines
from a Sci Fi movie! Sorry, couldn't resist! Whathehell IS a Titinate,
anyhow?Critter from Star Wars?
Nicads? Yeah! Great batteries, as somebody said. But hidiously expensive!
THAT'S why most EVers pass them by. We will soon see how the little 600
series surplus jobs do. They seem to make great E tracter and Bike
batteries.As they turn up surplus, now and again.After seeing Victor's
stunning Cap.smokeshow at Woodburn, it looks promising , at least as a
hybrid setup to give EV's great tire ignition sequences, without killing
your main traction pack. I think this will be the way to go. when Zombie or
Meanie pack along a Cap. Bank for a bit more distance as it could cut back
on the battery back breaking 2400 amp launches. But we have come along way,
baby with EV technology. Motors and controllers, chargers and the whole
battery managment system, beyond Bad Boys. So we can do home made
conversions so much better, than say, 30 years ago. I have seen that!
Going back to Read mode with high, but not TOO high, hopes that something
that actually works. Neon John hit it right on the head with the exaggerated
claims dept. Sadly you are right EVery damn EV that came to market has been
overrated, like Hybrid gas miliage. NOBODY gets the EPA miliage out of a
Prius, and the miliage goes to hell when it gets cold, like everybody elses
ICE's do, anyhow. If I do better than 40MPG in cold weather, it's something
to crow about!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A wind mill car should work. It works with sailboats to sail stright into
the wind. However the right size would be higher than powerlines and
traffic signals. You would also need plenty of wind. Also your speed to
each direction of wind is very different. Reaching is fastest. DDW or up
wind is very slow. There is a wind powered van in England. It however
collects energy while stopped. Not while underway. LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 4:59 PM
Subject: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2006/03/wind_powered_electric_car.html
[Image of under the hood shot of Blue Meanie]
Bob writes - "I recently bought issue 5 of Make Magazine, and
inside are articles on the electrical powered car for $7000 and a
some pages later on building your own windmill to power your
home. Well, would it be possible to build a car that combines the
two powers? You would use the electric power in the city, and on
the highway you would use the windmill /fan inside a wind tunnel
on top of your car. When the car gets up to a certain speed, you
engage the the wind turbine to power the car, in effect setting
it on cruise control. Would the 2 sources supply each other? The
wind tunnel powering the motor, the motor making the car go so
the fan can catch the wind?"
Of course the net gain wouldn't be significant for this to work
out, but it would be fun to do some math on the potential output
of regenerative braking and regenerative turbines for slowing
down...what do you Makers think? Post up in the comments.
Pictured here - John Wayland's battery powered "Blue Meanie" 1972
Datsun.
Related:
Electric Avenue by Charles Platt. The street-legal electric car
of the future is coming--not from Japan or Detroit--but from your
neighbor's garage. MAKE 05 - Page 60.
Wind Powered Generator by Abe and Josie Connally. With a motor
and some piping, it's suprisingly easy to build this inexpensive,
efficient windmill generator--and enjoy free energy forever. MAKE
05 - Page 90.
Posted by Phillip Torrone | 05:18 PM
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well it's probably not a good idea to argue with someone who sounds like
they know everything, but I'll do it once.
1) The motor is only open on the sides where dirt really doesn't get in.
The fenders and splash guards front and rear(optional) pretty much keep the
motor clean. The other solution is just don't ride it in muck.
2) The Etek is really pretty resistant to water. I've washed them hundreds
of times. Just tap the brushes when it gets dirt inside. Most of the time
a wet towel on the outside is good enough to clean it anyway.
3) Maybe you haven't downloaded the realtime current/voltage data from an
Alltrax controller while riding, but yes, it does hit 600+ amps(out to the
motor) at ~38 volts. After 400 amps the voltage is cut from 48 to ~38 volts
by the time it gets to 600 amps. Even allowing for drive loss, motor
efficiency and wire loss, 19+ HP isn't too far off.
4) Every motorcycle is rated by peak horsepower. Motorcycles accelerate so
fast that they are at the peak power for less than a second. Seems fair to
compare that with an electric dirt bike that hits top speed in a few
seconds. Sure it's only putting out that power for a few seconds, but you
can only accelerate for a few seconds anyway. Why bother with the motor
continuos HP when it will never see that? The top speed is limited by
gearing and not power. The intention is not to deceive, but to give someone
something they can compare it to. Using the Etek continuos HP rating and
comparing that to a motorcycle HP rating would lead you to believe that a
KLX125 is a match for my Etek bikes. You would be dead wrong.
Warning, shameless promotion ahead!!!
5) Although I do understand a bit of healthy skepticism, I didn't get to be
one of the top mountain bike suspension designers in the world by producing
vaporware. Mountain Biking magazine just picked my mountain bike suspension
design as bike of the year. My bike designs have sold 10+million dollars
worldwide. Now I'm bringing that manufacturing power to an industry that
sorely needs it. Keep an open mind and see for yourself.
Neal
-----Original Message-----
From: Neon John [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 8:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Fw: New electric motocross bike by Electricross
I'm losing track of who is doing what here. Brian, are you involved
in this company? If you are, that company's credibility goes way up
in my book.
OK, so I withdraw my vaporware comments, though the web site still
makes the company seem vaporous to me. One major item is on the
"order page" where it says that a deposit will be required at the time
of order with the balance due when the bike ships. Given the bad rep
some EV companies have had in the past with taking the deposit and
running, this needs to be clarified. Estimated ship date, how many
orders ahead of the current one, etc. Maybe some way to track the
waiting list. Being able to see a waiting list that actually moves
adds tons of credibility, IMO.
On to my second criticism. Are you/they REALLY shipping a dirt bike
with an open frame, PM motor located down in the muck? I wonder how
many hours it'll take for those NIB magnets to filter out enough
magnetic stuff from mere dust to clog the air gaps?
While I'm at it, This " It begins with a 19+ horsepower (14,400 watt)
electric vehicle motor and programmable controller." is an outright
fraudulent claim. We ETEK users know that if it can ever make "19+"
HP, it's only for a second or two. I think that we (EVers) have a
moral if not a legal obligation to report horsepower the same way it
is legally required for fuel burning engines - SAE net. What's wrong
with quoting the ETEK's continuous rating? Or even its 30 second
rating which will probably encompass 99% of a dirtbike's operating
envelope.
"The power is stored in a special quick-change battery pack that can
deliver up to 600 amps". This is equally misleading if not outright
fraudulent. Whether the battery can deliver 600 or 6000 amps is
irreverent since an Alltrax 4844 400 amp max controller is being used.
This "We use a 400+ amp Alltrax 4844M controller with this motor. When
the current draw exceeds 400 amps the voltage to the motor is tapered
down." is almost as bad. The 4844M (M for momentary) can deliver 400
amps (not "400+") for 30 seconds. It's a small form-factor controller
designed to fit in a Curtis footprint. From the Alltrax site:
Model Volt Current Limit 2min 5 min 1 hr Rating
AXE-4844M 24-48V [EMAIL PROTECTED] 300A 200A 125A
The rapid derating indicates a thermal limitation which is cumulative.
Once the controller heats up it'll derate until it cools.
Then there are the little things such as using the identical photo for
the fast and normal battery pack. As a potential customer, once I
notice some things like these, I begin to wonder what ELSE is being
falsely represented.
This is a real sore spot for me. Why do EV companies and even many
hobbyists have to exaggerate and outright lie about capabilities? It
seems like every EV company quotes a top speed (downhill and with a
tailwind!) and a range per charge achieved (if it ever was) at the
most economical speed but they put 'em together to appear that the
vehicle will go that far at max speed. The Citicar was a classic
example. If that sucker would ever go "up to 50 miles" at WOT, I'll
eat my shorts!
I particularly don't understand it here. All the bits are Good Stuff.
Why exaggerate about them? One of my homemade scooters uses almost
exactly this drivetrain. An ETEK, a 4855 (500 amp) Alltrax controller
and 48 volts' worth of Hawker Genesis batteries. This thing is scary
fast and I certainly don't need to make exaggerated claims to impress
anyone who has ridden it. They usually come back a bit shaken up,
specs or no specs.
This is the same sort of outright lying about specs that Detroit Inc
pulled in the 60s which ended up with the Feds cracking down on them.
If a car company made these kinds of exaggerated claims today, both
the government and EVers would be all over them. Shouldn't we play by
the same rules.
If EVs ever become numerous enough to even raise a blip on the
government's radar screen (or worse, lawyers') then somebody is going
to get slapped hard and THAT will be what the evening news reports. Is
that what we want? Seems to me that we'd all be better off if we
police ourselves and keep government out of it. A great first step
would be to develop standards under which top speed, range and so on
are reported. Similar to the EPA's FTPs but without all the
government hassles.
John
On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 17:04:19 -0800, "Brian D.Hall"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Brian D.Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Rolf Gustafsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 5:03 PM
>Subject: Re: New electric motocross bike by Electricross
>
>
>>
>> We are working on our 30th bike, and we will switch over to the Perm
>> motor when our supply of E-teks are gone. :^(
>>
>> Mainfuse
>>
>> > I think Neal, who started this thread, forgot to mention that he built
>> > the bike and the website.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Rolf
>> >
>> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >Check out the new Drift electric motocross bike by Electricross Inc.
>> > > >
>> > > >http://www.electricross.com/
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Don'tcha just love the smell of vaporware in the air? I wonder when
>> > > there will be an EV company that puts up a website and sends out
press
>> > > releases that says "Announcing the Flummoxmobile. In stock and
>> > > shipping now."
>> > >
>> > > On the oft-chance that they ever actually make this thing....
>> > >
>> > > Let me get this straight. They're selling a motocross bike, a tool
>> > > for plowing through mud and muck and whatnot with an exposed, OPEN
>> > > FRAME motor and an exposed controller?
>> > >
>> > > Ya, right. And I have a bridge to sell.....
>> > >
>> > > I'm actually getting a kick out of all these E-TEK-based vaporware
>> > > bikes. I have a whole directory full of photos. One or two
>> > > "companies" actually made two or three of 'em.
>> > >
>> > > John
>> > > ---
>> > > John De Armond
>> > > See my website for my current email address
>> > > http://www.johngsbbq.com
>> > > Cleveland, Occupied TN
>> > > A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo
>> > Emerson
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I revised the copy at
http://www.evdl.org/help/
See what you think. Comments on the "conventions" welcome.
I noticed as part of this update that the evdl FAQ at
http://www.infoev.com/faq/index.ws4d
seems to be gone. Anybody know what happened to all the material that some
of us wrote for a that FAQ few years ago? This appears to be an example of
a well meaning individual who for one reason or another didn't or couldn't
maintain his commitment to the evdl.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please use evadm at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Meta Bus wrote:
At startup, I would have a laptop or other onboard computer with which
to soft-reverse the controllers' outputs (to determine which direction
is forward), and I would be able to switch motor/controller directions
while in "neutral".
______________________________________
/__|__|__|__|__| ]<>[ |__|__|__|__| \
{__________________]__[______________|--}
O metabus O O O
Are there any other obvious design flaws that come to mind?
Please make darn sure your laptop will never try to run both halves
of your metabus [their respective] "forward" :-)
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI All,
I just acquired myself a old suzuki gsx 250 motorbike. Well i swapped it for
my fiat 132 weber carby... Notbad!!
I am just calling to all the people out there with some real life data in
running their motorbikes on electric power in terms of power usage, voltage,
amperage handling issues, controller choice etc etc etc. I do have a general
idea on component selection but i want to take a analytical approach to
design my bike. It's quite difficult to obtain drag data for bikes.
Cheers
_________________________________________________________________
realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property
http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mreish wrote:
Per Otmar's suggestion, we are adding Watt/Hours per mile, and Total
Electric Miles, as suggested by Steven Arlint.
Don't want to sound nit picking, but it's watt*hours or Wh, not Watt/hours.
It's obvious what you're trying to say, but please pay attention to the
units, else it is confusing esp. for newbies who may try to use it
as a formula - dividing watts by the hours - and get total nonsense.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I just acquired myself a old suzuki gsx 250 motorbike.
> I am just calling to all the people out there with some real life data
in
> running their motorbikes on electric power in terms of power usage,
voltage,
> amperage handling issues, controller choice etc etc etc. I do have a
general
> idea on component selection but i want to take a analytical approach
to
> design my bike. It's quite difficult to obtain drag data for bikes.
If you work from the premise that drag is bloody awful, you won't go far
wrong. An unfaired 125 with 12bhp (9Kw) will do about 60mph. Most bike
conversions look like a dogs breakfast as there isn't enough room to
house a sufficient capacity of lead acid batteries neatly. The Suzuki
front brake is probably going to drag as it's supposed to slide on pins
(and rarely do!). It can be done, but you have to be realistic about
your aims.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
Rothamsted Research is a company limited by guarantee, registered in
England under the registration number 2393175 and a not for profit
charity number 802038.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor wrote:
Don't want to sound nit picking, but it's watt*hours or Wh, not Watt/hours.
It's obvious what you're trying to say, but please pay attention to the
units, else it is confusing esp. for newbies who may try to use it
as a formula - dividing watts by the hours - and get total nonsense.
Indeed. My headache is trying to turn our field names back into
plain English We may store that as WHPM or some silly name like
that, but the web page should read "Watt Hours per Mile" and include
a how to page with suggestions on how to properly calculate it. We
will probably also have to have a page to explain any terms.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David wrote:
http://www.infoev.com/faq/index.ws4d
seems to be gone. Anybody know what happened to all the material that some
of us wrote for a that FAQ few years ago? This appears to be an example of
a well meaning individual who for one reason or another didn't or couldn't
maintain his commitment to the evdl.
No, just seems to have gone through a website redesign and gotten a
new domain name. Try:
http://www.evparts.com/faq/
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sail boats don't sail "straight" into the wind though. If you have a boat
with a 30 degree tacking angle you have a pretty nice boat. I'd feel pretty
silly tacking back and forth across a two lane road to make it up wind in my
car. Sailing DDW (dead downwind) however is doable. My question is why
would you take the net amount of wind energy you can convert with a wind
turbine and run it through a conversion system with some loss(the
generator), pipe it with some loss through another conversion system (the
motor), transfer the produced mechanical energy through a driveline with
more losses to get your car to move. Why not just put up a sail? You could
capture more energy than a wind turbine thats too large to drive around with
on top of your car. You'd still have to drive off the wind by some angle.
My guess is that if you could make enough energy on a beam reach with a wind
turbine to even move the car you would have accomplished a lot. But
straight up wind? Rhetoric won't do, I'd have to drive it.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 10:04 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
A wind mill car should work. It works with sailboats to sail stright into
the wind. However the right size would be higher than powerlines and
traffic signals. You would also need plenty of wind. Also your speed to
each direction of wind is very different. Reaching is fastest. DDW or up
wind is very slow. There is a wind powered van in England. It however
collects energy while stopped. Not while underway. LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 4:59 PM
Subject: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
> EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
>
http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2006/03/wind_powered_electric_car.html
> [Image of under the hood shot of Blue Meanie]
>
> Bob writes - "I recently bought issue 5 of Make Magazine, and
> inside are articles on the electrical powered car for $7000 and a
> some pages later on building your own windmill to power your
> home. Well, would it be possible to build a car that combines the
> two powers? You would use the electric power in the city, and on
> the highway you would use the windmill /fan inside a wind tunnel
> on top of your car. When the car gets up to a certain speed, you
> engage the the wind turbine to power the car, in effect setting
> it on cruise control. Would the 2 sources supply each other? The
> wind tunnel powering the motor, the motor making the car go so
> the fan can catch the wind?"
>
> Of course the net gain wouldn't be significant for this to work
> out, but it would be fun to do some math on the potential output
> of regenerative braking and regenerative turbines for slowing
> down...what do you Makers think? Post up in the comments.
>
> Pictured here - John Wayland's battery powered "Blue Meanie" 1972
> Datsun.
>
> Related:
> Electric Avenue by Charles Platt. The street-legal electric car
> of the future is coming--not from Japan or Detroit--but from your
> neighbor's garage. MAKE 05 - Page 60.
>
> Wind Powered Generator by Abe and Josie Connally. With a motor
> and some piping, it's suprisingly easy to build this inexpensive,
> efficient windmill generator--and enjoy free energy forever. MAKE
> 05 - Page 90.
>
> Posted by Phillip Torrone | 05:18 PM
> -
>
>
>
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> ===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Mike Chancey" >
<SNIP>
Yes, there is a spot for this already, but it seems like nobody makes much
use of it. It is the Tech section of the EV Album at:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/
This looks good , and their is one bad boy , under some control , with
booster chair , there now ,. Where would I send a drawling ( bad boy
choked on micro wave oven transformer ) to .
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Chancey writes:
>
> Per Otmar's suggestion, we are adding Watt/Hours per mile, and Total
> Electric Miles, as suggested by Steven Arlint.
Mike,
This information will be useful but I wonder if having Total Electric Miles
will sentence you to make constant changes as people update their vehicle's
information? Even just a once-per-year update by most people on the list
makes several hundred updates for you. Or is this something people will be
able to update on their own?
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3/5/06, Mike & Paula Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sail boats don't sail "straight" into the wind though. If you have a boat
> with a 30 degree tacking angle you have a pretty nice boat. I'd feel pretty
> silly tacking back and forth across a two lane road to make it up wind in my
> car.
Actually, there is a kind of boat which uses a vertical axis wind
turbine (actually it looks just like a cylinder or pole sticking up)
which drives a propeller. It can drive into the wind, albeit slowly.
Sorry I don't know any more details and can't find a link but perhaps
someone else can verify.
My EV is wind and hydro powered anyway, why drag the turbine around with you..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neal Saiki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 2:44 AM
Subject: RE: Fw: New electric motocross bike by Electricross
> Well it's probably not a good idea to argue with someone who sounds like
> they know everything, but I'll do it once.
Snip a bit!> > Let's hear it!<g>!
Warning, shameless promotion ahead!!!
>
> 5) Although I do understand a bit of healthy skepticism, I didn't get to
be
> one of the top mountain bike suspension designers in the world by
producing
> vaporware. Mountain Biking magazine just picked my mountain bike
suspension
> design as bike of the year. My bike designs have sold 10+million dollars
> worldwide. Now I'm bringing that manufacturing power to an industry that
> sorely needs it. Keep an open mind and see for yourself.
>
> Neal
>
> Way to Go Neal!! We NEED your expertise here1 Welcome to the Wonderful
World of EV's. You may get a few jabs on here, but for the EV Bike crowd,
you will be welcome. Say, any ideas for a light easy to build functional
suspension for a light 1200 lb 3 wheeler CAR, or enclosed motorcycle type
vehicle. Do hit me back on or off List, if ya would. Two in front, and power
from the rear wheel, setup.Sorry, couldn't resist, reading your credentials!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One thing, I must add to this. I ran a Cableform controller that was a what
you call a series type low side switcher. I have a amp and volt meter on
the battery as well as on the motor side which I added later.
In this type of controller, the battery and motor amps read the same. At 60
mph, the ampere read 180 amps at 175 volts. With the Zilla, the motor
ampere reads 200 amps at 45 volts while on the battery side it reads 175
volts at 50 amps.
The motor I have is a Warp 9 that has a maximum ampere of 199 amperes for a
certain amount of time. If you are driving very short distances which I do
anyway, then this ampere level will be ok, but what about long distance long
time driving that I used to do with the CableForm running a GE motor that
has a ampere rating of 180 amps at 170 volts?
We ran this car call Transformer I for 24 hours at a average of 45 mph for
over 1000 miles. I than ran this EV in Montana up and down the hills for
the next ten years sometime drawing 600 amps for about a minute and on grade
for the next 20 years with no problems, except for the noise the controller
emitted.
With the Warp and Zilla, I have to hold down my speed down to below 30 mph
to hold the motor ampere below 200 amps.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: Motor wiring
> Hello to All,
>
> John wrote:
>
> > I have been puzzled something for a while regarding wiring diagrams I
> > have seen.
>
>
> Let's see if I can help clear it up for you.
>
> >
> > Convert It (and other sources I have seen) show a controller with a
> > B+, B-, M- A2 terminals, with connections from
> > Controller A2 not used.
> > Controller B+ to pack + (via contactor)
> > Controller B- to pack -
> > Controller B+ to Motor A1
> > Motor A2 to Motor S2
> > and
> > Motor S1 to Controller M-
>
>
> The above is for controllers that are 'low side switchers', in other
> words, the transistors inside the controller pulse the negative side of
> the pack. Curtis, the controller the 'Convert It' folks like to use, is
> a low side switcher type. The A2 terminal is for 'plug braking' used
> primarily in forklift applications where either a single large diode or
> a bank of diodes inside the controllers goes across the motor's armature
> to control the motor's reaction to being reversed while traveling to
> slow the truck down. In a road going EV, we almost never use plug
> braking, thus, it's 'not used' status. So, for the low side switcher,
> one side of the motor is connected directly to the pack positive, while
> the other side of the motor is connected to the controller's M- output,
> where it gets its negative connection via PWM between the controller and
> battery negative. The fact that the motor's A2 is connected to the
> motor's S2 is merely the completion of the motor circuit that is the
> norm for a series-wound motor, that is, one side of the armature (either
> A1 or A2) is connected to one side of the series field coils (either S1
> or S2) so that the remaining two terminals (in this case, A1 and S2) are
> where you apply power to the motor to make it run.
>
> >
> > My Zilla manual on the other hand has B+, B- M+ and M- terminals with
> > connections:
> > Zilla M- to motor A1
> > motor A2 to motor field (would this be S2 on my advanced dc motor?)
> > other motor field to Zilla M+
> > Zilla B- to Pack -
> > Zilla B+ to Pack + (via contactor)
>
>
> The above is for controllers that are 'high side switchers', in other
> words, the transistors inside the controller pulse the positive side of
> the pack. The Zilla is a high side switcher type. Normally it would be
> just like a Curtis, in that you would use just three connections, B+ and
> B- for battery pack input, and the switched side as the M+ output to the
> motor with the other terminal of the motor connected to battery minus.
> The difference is, that the Zilla also has a built in shunt for
> measuring motor loop current. Inside the controller, the shunt has one
> side connected to the battery negative terminal, with the other end of
> the shunt being the M- terminal that feeds the motor its battery negative.
>
> >
> > Does the Zilla configuration give additional functionality such as
> > electric reverse?
>
>
> Technically, not the Zilla controller itself, rather, the Zilla's
> interface, the Hairball. The Hairball controls all contactor activation,
> including optional F-R contactors. When using the optional F-R
> contactors, the motor's two field terminals get wired to the contactors,
> as does one of the motor's armature terminals, then the contactors
> distribute the output of the controller appropriately. In addition to
> F-R operation, the Hairball can also control series or parallel
> contactors for running twin motors. The Hairball also controls
> controller precharge and automatic engagement of the line contactor. The
> Hairball also protects against a myriad of problems that other lesser
> controller systems don't even address. The Zilla controller operates
> silently, too. With a Zilla under your hood, the only squeal you'll hear
> will be from the tires!
>
> For the exact info, go here to read the owner's manual:
>
> http://cafeelectric.com/products/zilla/Html/HB2Man.html
>
> See Ya....John Wayland
>
> Admission: sponsored by Cafe Electric and spoiled by Zilla excellence
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2006 2:04 AM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Blue Meanie shown on wind powered car blog)
Hi EVerybody;
Comments, from an old sailer, BOATS that is.
> A wind mill car should work. It works with sailboats to sail stright into
> the wind.
Like hell! EVerybody that sails KNOWS that you don't sail INTO the
wind, you have to " tack ' ACROSS the wind at about 30 degrees, IF you're
good! Sailboat races are won/lost this way. Clipper shops, fast and elegent
as they were ,had to follow these rules, too. STEAM boats could just GO,
wind notwithstanding. No sport here. Icebergs were another issue,
thou<g>!Also larger sailboats are usually fitted with small engines, perfect
EV application, BTW so they can power where restrictions, like narrow
channels, preclude tacking, or no room to tack.Like on the hiway, in
traffic.
However the right size would be higher than powerlines and
> traffic signals.
This could be embarrasing in traffic, your spinniker cought on a
stoplight or causing a short circus with overhead power lines!And when you
wonted to trim things for a broad reach, across TWO lanes of traffic. You
wouldn't be very popular!Do I hear Road Rage?
You would also need plenty of wind.
Got THAT right, in the Midtown Tunnel, NYC, real place,you would be out
of luck! IF the damn mast would FIT in the tunnel?
Also your speed to
> each direction of wind is very different. Reaching is fastest. DDW or up
> wind is very slow. There is a wind powered van in England. It however
> collects energy while stopped. Not while underway.
Now THAT makes sense, put your windmill up while parked, NOT in the
parking garage, though.
Whatthehell is "Make" magazine, anyhow? Maybe I don't wanna know, with
articles of that sort. They may feature Carl Tilley and that guy down in MS
with the "run forEVer" electric car. Over Unity here? Again, It seems to
poop, just slipped out, (pop) up now an' again.Gees Popular Science is
getting bad enough, with vaperware and unobtanium stuff, nowadaze!And now,
with Bloggs, No Limits!
John Wayland must be cringing at the use of HIS car, a practical EV
Pluggitin vehicle represented, here?Did they draw in a windmill setup? Or
just snag a pix off the Net to use as eye candy?
They should promote the Wind thing for a house or some other stationary
setup. Has anybody actually BUILT one of these things?
Just a few thoughts
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Everybody:
I feel like an idiot and my local NAPA store is unable to provide new
batteries at the rate they die in my truck. This morning, I found another
dead cell in a battery that was just 3 months old.
I am using a Zivan charger. I monitored the charging process with my
E-Meter and found it to be in the envelope (approx. 190V max Voltage for a
144V nominal system). I just don't have any idea. While I ordered new
Trojans, I am afraid that there is a problem with my system that will
effect those Trojans too. I am afraid I am ending up killing my new
Trojans as well.
I never draw currents > 350A and I never discharge my batteries beyond
50%. One would think, those batteries should have a good life in my truck.
But alas, they either commit suicide or they are being killed by something
I am doing.
_ANY_ input is appreciated.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
