EV Digest 5251
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: High performance couplers (and White Zombie mods)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Forbidden Cars
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dana Havranek)
3) Re: Forbidden Cars
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) When to Charge?
by Nawaz Qureshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Was: article: EEStor Capacitors- "This could change everything"More
Stuff.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Was: article: EEStor Capacitors- "This could change everything"More
Stuff.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) new "This New Car" Radio Show now on-line
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Several motors on e-bay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Titling EV issue
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Charging
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) ZEV parking decal in CA
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Several motors on e-bay
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Titling EV issue
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) New Renders of remodelled skateboard Fiero up
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: High performance couplers (and White Zombie mods)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: new "This New Car" Radio Show now on-line
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: New Renders of remodelled skateboard Fiero up
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: battery prices
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Adjustable airgap hubmotor on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Bradley GT EV kitcar available cheap in Fla on E bay
by "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) new low-RR tyre
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: new "This New Car" Radio Show now on-line
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Bradley GT EV kitcar available cheap in Fla on E bay
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Bradley GT EV kitcar available cheap in Fla on E bay
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Parallel Charging
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Different Cell Capacities
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Li-poly cycle life (was Re: Better to Run Down or...)
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Bradley GT EV kitcar available cheap in Fla on E bay
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: new "This New Car" Radio Show now on-line
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Li-poly cycle life (was Re: Better to Run Down or...)
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: New Renders of remodelled skateboard Fiero up
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The continued weight reductions, plus a taller gear set in back, high rpm
field weakening, and a fresh battery pack (thank you Hawker
AeroBatteries), should help us achieve this year's goal of running an
11.5 @ 115 mph...on DOT tires.
See Ya......John Wayland
I used to think all this was an impractical race machine. Way fun but not
practical. Probably overheated on any kind of hill. Thoughts are changing.
It is very possible a watered down version for the rest of us might be more
efficient than using gears if the power to weight is enough. An extra motor
might just be better than a transmission in the trade off. The two 72volt
motors and controllers in the Tropica seem to work just fine. Otmars
Porsche seems to work just fine. Would a two motor Blue Meanie give better
range? Lawrence Rhodes.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I live in Illinois and registered my EV just last week.
Lee is right.
I spent a long time trying to convince them that they do register electric
vehicles in Illinois.
Finally, they found a member of the staff that knew how to do it (knew the
secret codes) and it went well after that.
It a fine line to walk - you have to keep insisting nicely without getting the
staff upset.
Dana
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Does anyone else live in a state
> that does not register Electric cars?
>
> I haven't finished my investigation yet,
> but I was just amazed that the DMV Special Titles
> office tells me that New Jersey does not register
> electric cars.
>
> I'm going to write to the new Governor. Soon
> as I find my Round Tuit...
>
> (meanwhile, I blame my newborn :-) :-) :-)
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Rothenberg wrote:
> I haven't finished my investigation yet,
> but I was just amazed that the DMV Special Titles
> office tells me that New Jersey does not register
> electric cars.
Odd. My Solectria Force has been registered, inspected, and licensed in New
Jersey for over 10 years. And I know there are others.
Maybe its that it _isn't_ a "special title". Is it a car with odd emission
requirements?
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The reason for charging "at the first available opportunity it that in
partially discharged condition, lead sulfate is present on the plates
from the discharge reactions. The lead sulfate crystals provide nice
"seeds" to accelerate the self discharge and grow larger that become
harder to convert back to the active material. when charging.
Please see the 14th para below. from USBMC web link:
http://www.usbattery.com/pages/usbspecs.htm
begin:vcard
fn:Nawaz Qureshi
n:Qureshi;Nawaz
org:U. S. Battery Manufacturing Company
adr;dom:;;1675 Sampson Avenue;Corona;CA;92879
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Vice - President of Engineering
tel;work:951-371-8090
tel;fax:951-371-4671
url:http://www.usbattery.com
version:2.1
end:vcard
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 3/13/06 11:21:00 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< I said "almost" because there is one possible trick with lead-acid
batteries that doesn't work with any other type. In a lead-acid cell,
both plates are the same material (lead). So in theory, you can use one
side of the same sheet of lead as the + for one cell, and the - on the
next one. The lead sheet itself forms the inter-cell wall, and support
for the lead oxide/lead sulfate that makes it work. This elimnates the
need for large current carrying conductors between cells, because the
current just flows through the (arbitrarily thin) lead sheet.
However, no one's ever been able to get this to work effectively. It's
too hard to seal the edges and prevent pinhole leaks between cells >>
^^Is this like the GMB Pulsar bipolar battery I used in 1994 in the Current
Eliminator?This very powerful battery did leak But I wish I could have
harnessed all the energy back then. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I said "almost" because there is one possible trick with lead-acid
> batteries that doesn't work with any other type... you can use one
> side of the same sheet of lead as the + for one cell, and the - on
> the next one. The lead sheet itself forms the inter-cell wall, and
> support for the lead oxide/lead sulfate that makes it work.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Is this like the GMB Pulsar bipolar battery I used in 1994 in the
> Current Eliminator?This very powerful battery did leak, but I wish
> I could have harnessed all the energy back then.
Yes, that's one example. The Electrosource "Horizon" was another. Many
have tried, but so far no one has succeeded in solving the leakage and
self-discharge problems inherent in such cells.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ANOTHER episode of "This New Car" is now on-line (MP3 recording) at
http://www.wicn.org/programs/thisnewcar/schedule.htm
Podcast/RSS support for "This New Car" is available on the same page.
The episodes are 30 minutes each and almost all meat, very little fat compared
to most talk shows. Listen and see if you agree.
The entire schedule of 13 weeks ...
Available ...
#1 Pros and Cons of Hybrid Vehicles
#2 Pros and Cons of Alternative-Energy Vehicles
#3 Hydrogen-combustion vehicles
#4 Fuel-cell vehicles
#5 Electric & plug-in vehicles
#6 New-technology vehicles
#7 What makes a hybrid a hybrid?
#8 Saving fuel with computers
#9 Detroit: Can the Motor City be hybrid-ized?
#10 "Green" vehicles: What are they and does the average consumer really care?
Coming ...
#11 What can be done about the cars currently on the road to make them
cleaner and more environmentally friendly?
#12 Are the state and federal governments doing enough to promote and support
"green" vehicles?
#13 Does everyone need to own a vehicle?
"This New Car", is a special 13-week edition of "The Business Beat", on
WICN/90.5 FM and at WICN.org in Worcester, MA, the National Public Radio
affiliate serving Central New England.
The experts for this lively, informative discussion on hybrid and
alternative-fuel vehicles are
Jim Dunn the NASA Center for Technology Commercialization
Gilles Labelle the Hybrid Center of Massachusetts at Westboro Toyota
Craig Van Batenburg the Automotive Career Development Center
all in Westboro Massachusetts.
"This New Car" is hosted by Steven Jones-D'Agostino of Best Rate Of Climb in
Worcester, MA, and sponsored exclusively by Westboro Toyota.
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a TeVan motor and transmission listed on e-bay.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just went threw the titleing process for my converted 300zx in Fresno
California
It required a trip to the referee to get the propulsion code changed and
then, because it was not last titled in california, the vin number to be
varified by an officer, the DMV just asked if I had brought it and asked
me do drive into the carport. (1/2 hour later after I did the
traditional show n tell with all the other employes he called over) we
went in to finish the paperwork. { who says you can't have fun at the
DMV? }
The last step in this case, and only because of it's prior out of state
status. ( From that hotbed of EV activity, the Bend/Corvallis Oregan
area. ) was to send all the original reciepts of the conversion to
sacremento for finalization. I am still waiting for that. I was issued
plates and a sticker, just waiting to pick up my "GASNOMR" plates.
A fun process, but be prepared, wherever you go, to give a show and
tell. The ref had me come early for charging reasons and so the
instructor at the vocational auto school could let the students see it.
I then stopped at the electric motor shop here in town that was so good
at getting me cable and connectors so they could see it. ( I am trying
to get one of their bumper stickers so I can modify it from "Allied
Electric", allied in blue electric in red, to "All Electric" man it
would fit perfect in the little side window ;-) Curenttly my EV signage
is a diamond shaped piece of paper on which I wrote "driver carries no
gas". When I really feel like shareing the EV grin I drive with the
charge cord hanging out the trunk a bit ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I could charge at home when I'm down 25% and then
let it sit at work while only 10% down, but that would
interfere with my free charging ;-) I guess I'll just
have to play it by ear and see how I do with this
battery pack. So far so good, but I have seen a
definite decrease in my range with the cold snap we've
had here. I had to scrape my windshield this morning!
First time in years that I've had to do that.
As far as the smell from charging flooded
batteries goes, I've always thought the smell was a
clean, healthy smell. I assumed it was either the
oxygen or the hydrogen I was smelling. It never gets
very strong, my pack in the truck is outside. In the
Jet 007 with most of the pack in the passenger cabin
it got a little stronger but it was never a stink or
chemical smell. It did tend to condense quite a bit of
water on the inside windows though. That was a pain to
deal with as I never did try to get the diesel heater
working.
TiM
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a ZEV sticker on my truck. I was under the
impression you needed one in order to park at a public
charging station in CA. I read somewhere that certain
cities allow you to park for free in metered spots
with the sticker as well. I haven't tested this one
out though.
TiM
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's a pretty crappy picture of the
motor/transmission. It looks like the motor is fried
in this picture, hopefully Steve can provide a few
better pics.
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> There is a TeVan motor and transmission listed on
> e-bay.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, but do you need to bring the car in to get a simple *title* or for
plates/registration/etc? If I have to haul this truck to CA just for a 5
minute meeting I will have a problem.
Chris
Jeff Shanab wrote:
I just went threw the titleing process for my converted 300zx in Fresno
California
It required a trip to the referee to get the propulsion code changed and
then, because it was not last titled in california, the vin number to be
varified by an officer, the DMV just asked if I had brought it and asked
me do drive into the carport. (1/2 hour later after I did the
traditional show n tell with all the other employes he called over) we
went in to finish the paperwork. { who says you can't have fun at the
DMV? }
The last step in this case, and only because of it's prior out of state
status. ( From that hotbed of EV activity, the Bend/Corvallis Oregan
area. ) was to send all the original reciepts of the conversion to
sacremento for finalization. I am still waiting for that. I was issued
plates and a sticker, just waiting to pick up my "GASNOMR" plates.
A fun process, but be prepared, wherever you go, to give a show and
tell. The ref had me come early for charging reasons and so the
instructor at the vocational auto school could let the students see it.
I then stopped at the electric motor shop here in town that was so good
at getting me cable and connectors so they could see it. ( I am trying
to get one of their bumper stickers so I can modify it from "Allied
Electric", allied in blue electric in red, to "All Electric" man it
would fit perfect in the little side window ;-) Curenttly my EV signage
is a diamond shaped piece of paper on which I wrote "driver carries no
gas". When I really feel like shareing the EV grin I drive with the
charge cord hanging out the trunk a bit ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I'm not sure how many find this interesting, but I've finally got some time
and access to Inventor again and I've made and posted some more renders of
the work I did on the Skateboard Fiero in February.
http://michael.ellis.googlepages.com/el-driverpage2
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The continued weight reductions, plus a taller gear set in back, high
rpm field weakening, and a fresh battery pack (thank you Hawker
AeroBatteries), should help us achieve this year's goal of running an
11.5 @ 115 mph...on DOT tires.
When you dip below 12.00, you'll need a roll bar. Better plan on
that now, you're getting close. ;^)
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to keep harping on Gilles, but he just said something that struck
home.
He said, "Just to tell you -the province of Manitoba - you showed me an
article just recently, they have enough electricity
_not_being_used_right_now_ to do plug-in hybrid vehicles for every vehicle
in Manitoba. Just think of it. They have enough energy, they're not using!
So a lot of electricity is going to be available."
Ok, I live in Manitoba, and I'd sure like to see that article. Manitoba
Hydro is a government owned corporation that produces and sells electricity
in Manitoba. They offer us huge grants to reduce our power use (insulation
rebates, free high efficiency lights, powersmart loans, energy reduction
grants, etc.). They do this because they sell our power to Ontario and the
United States for far more than they are allowed to here at home. _We_ may
not be using that power, but someone is. It's not going "unused" and it's
not "going to be available."
I'd love to see that article.
-Mike
On 3/13/06, M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ANOTHER episode of "This New Car" is now on-line (MP3 recording) at
> http://www.wicn.org/programs/thisnewcar/schedule.htm
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mike the renderings look neat. I few things I am curious about:
Will you be using the same fiero suspension or devising your own?
Are you planning on the skateboard idea or continue to use the Fiero frame.
I am curious about the torsional rigidity of the skateboard frame.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mike Ellis
Sent: March 13, 2006 8:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: New Renders of remodelled skateboard Fiero up
Hi all,
I'm not sure how many find this interesting, but I've finally got some time
and access to Inventor again and I've made and posted some more renders of
the work I did on the Skateboard Fiero in February.
http://michael.ellis.googlepages.com/el-driverpage2
-Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
wow
that's a bit more than 8%
--- Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Somebody I know who works for a golf cart repair
> here just told me that the prices that they pay for
> 6 v golf cart batteries are going up. One that they
> sell for about $60 is going to go up to about
> $90....
>
> so get your batteries now if you are planning on a
> new pack soon
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What size vehicle would you use this on? Almost $7K reserve:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4620864715
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
Here's something from another list you may
like, a really nice looking Bradley-2 EV without batts,
motor, controller in Fla. It looks like one the factory made
EV stock though may just be one made by a customer.
It would make a great EV sportscar or good
freeway EV as it's lightweight, fairly aero. Just what one
needs in an EV.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRADLEY-GTII-REPLICA-KIT-CAR-FL_W0QQitemZ8046262470
HTH'
Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I discovered a Bridgestone tyre which is specially made for the fuel
efficient VW Lupo.
It's listed as B 381 Ecopia 145/80 R14 76T
http://www.bridgestone-eu.com/bfe/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=000000000000000000001_2_40276articleRCRD
http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/reifensucher.pl?ID=froogle&typ=76817&Country=UK
Of course there is no published data on what the rolling resistance
figure actually is, but it's probably worth trying if you can use that
size of tyre.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
He may mean at night , when its not peak usage . Still , if they can sell
all excess for more to Ontorio , then the less you buy the better for them.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: new "This New Car" Radio Show now on-line
Sorry to keep harping on Gilles, but he just said something that struck
home.
He said, "Just to tell you -the province of Manitoba - you showed me an
article just recently, they have enough electricity
_not_being_used_right_now_ to do plug-in hybrid vehicles for every vehicle
in Manitoba. Just think of it. They have enough energy, they're not using!
So a lot of electricity is going to be available."
Ok, I live in Manitoba, and I'd sure like to see that article. Manitoba
Hydro is a government owned corporation that produces and sells
electricity
in Manitoba. They offer us huge grants to reduce our power use (insulation
rebates, free high efficiency lights, powersmart loans, energy reduction
grants, etc.). They do this because they sell our power to Ontario and the
United States for far more than they are allowed to here at home. _We_ may
not be using that power, but someone is. It's not going "unused" and it's
not "going to be available."
I'd love to see that article.
-Mike
On 3/13/06, M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
ANOTHER episode of "This New Car" is now on-line (MP3 recording) at
http://www.wicn.org/programs/thisnewcar/schedule.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I put in a bid , if somebody else wants it , I'll set back , just looks like
a easy conversion , and wouldn't want to see gas engine crammed in their :-)
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 5:48 AM
Subject: Bradley GT EV kitcar available cheap in Fla on E bay
Hi All,
Here's something from another list you may
like, a really nice looking Bradley-2 EV without batts,
motor, controller in Fla. It looks like one the factory made
EV stock though may just be one made by a customer.
It would make a great EV sportscar or good
freeway EV as it's lightweight, fairly aero. Just what one
needs in an EV.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRADLEY-GTII-REPLICA-KIT-CAR-FL_W0QQitemZ8046262470
HTH'
Jerry Dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Bradley GT EV kitcar available cheap in Fla on E bay
> I put in a bid , if somebody else wants it , I'll set back , just looks
like
> a easy conversion , and wouldn't want to see gas engine crammed in their
:-)
> steve clunn
Looks like she's all but begging for a Warp 11 inch motor, and Zilla,
like ya have set up in the truck<G.! Go for it, Steve!!!
Seeya
Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 5:48 AM
> Subject: Bradley GT EV kitcar available cheap in Fla on E bay
>
>
> >
> > Hi All,
> > Here's something from another list you may
> > like, a really nice looking Bradley-2 EV without batts,
> > motor, controller in Fla. It looks like one the factory made
> > EV stock though may just be one made by a customer.
> > It would make a great EV sportscar or good
> > freeway EV as it's lightweight, fairly aero. Just what one
> > needs in an EV.
> >
> >
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRADLEY-GTII-REPLICA-KIT-CAR-FL_W0QQitemZ8046262470
> >
> >
> > HTH'
> > Jerry Dycus
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug, when you buddy-pair your cells, do you, for example, hook the negative
terminals directly together, and hook the positive terminals together via a
fuse? And if you do use a fuse, how to you choose its amp rating?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Doug Hartley
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 10:42 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Parallel Charging
Bill,
That should work (and the buddy cells with a single BMS module for each pair
also, despite TS comments to me). The biggest risk may be the 50 Amps
charging capability if the cells are not balanced. Better make sure that
the charger cutback works well. The under voltage protection is important
to prevent damage.
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 12:04 AM
Subject: RE: Parallel Charging
> All right, guys, how about this, then:
>
> I also have a non-isolated charger that can put out 20A. At charging
> time,
> I disconnect the two strings and charge the 200Ah cells with the three
> isolated chargers at 50A, and the 90Ah cells with the non-isolated charger
> at 15A. Both strings should take about the same amount of time to charge.
> And since I've installed clampers on each of the cells, they should all be
> at around 4.25V at the end of charging, so the two strings should be
> within
> a few tenths of a volt OCV of each other. At that point I connect them
> back
> together, and they equalize that small voltage, probably without too much
> of
> a current inrush between them.
>
> Would that work?
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Doug Hartley
> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 9:19 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Parallel Charging
>
> Bill, Victor,
>
> This is what I did with 200AH and 100 A-h cells. It would seem that with
> the wide and relatively linear voltage change with state of charge, they
> would share well according to their capacity. The voltage clampers would
> make sure that no cell saw too high a voltage and got damaged from that.
>
> However, when I complained to Thunder Sky last year about the big drop in
> capacity I have already, they blamed it on having the 2 different size
> cells
>
> in parallel. I asked for an explanation and emailed back and forth a few
> times about that, but still couldn't see their explanation as being valid.
> They hadn't said any warning about that when I metioned paralleling the
> cells to Brendan early on.
>
> I think that my last 28 100 A-hr cells from November 2004, that I use
> with
>
> the 8 DCS-75 AGM batteries in the hatchback, are better quality. I also
> bought the Stybrook cell monitoring modules to have low voltage protection
> as well as over-voltage. I have installed them and am about to wire the
> outputs so I will shut off the lithium pack contactor in case of an over
> or
> under-voltage condition on 1 or more cells.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Doug
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I have a string of TS cells, but one cell in the string has a higher Ah
rating than the others, then are the following true:
1) String current will be limited by the lower Ah strings, which have a
higher internal resistance
2) Since the same current is flowing through all cells, about the same
amount of Ah will be used from each cell--the higher Ah cell will not have
as deep a DOD as the lower ones, so there will be some capacity in the
higher cell that won't get used because one of the lower cells will run out
first, but...
3) When the string is charged, all cells will reach full at about the same
time, because they will all be receiving the same amount of Ah.
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
I found another copy of the graphs at
http://www.kokam.com/english/product/kokam_Lipo_01.html that display better
on my computer. After peering at them some more, I think my first method of
extrapolation which comes out with 13,200 shallow (20%) cycles before the
lithium polymer cells drop to 80% of original capacity does a better job of
matching the data we have.
If you look at the 100% discharge cycle life graph, the slope is flat (the
cell loses virtually no capacity) for the first 200 cycles and then begins
it's slope down to 1,400 cycles. For the 80% discharge cycle life graph, the
slope is flat (the cell loses virtually no capacity) for the first 1000
cycles and then begins to slope down. For the shallow (20% discharge) cycle
life graph, the graph seems to be a slight steady slope from the beginning
but no sharper drop off.
This means when you compare the number of cycles to 95% of original capacity
rather than the more standard 80% of original capacity, there is less
advantage to the shallow cycle regime
100% 550 cycles which gives 55,000 amp-hrs
80% 2,100 cycles which gives 168,000 amp-hrs
20% 3,300 cycles which gives 66,000 amp-hrs
But if you match the graphs existing slope and extend it to 80% of original
capacity, the shallow discharge is not as good as the 80% discharge but
twice as good as the 100% discharge.
100% 1,400 cycles which gives 140,000 amp-hrs
80% 6,000 cycles which gives 480,000 amp-hrs
20% 13,200 cycles which gives 264,000 amp-hrs
It looks like the 100% discharge cycle life to 1,437 cycles is the only
complete data. The 80% discharge graph quits at 2,800 cycles and the 20%
discharge graph quits at 3,300 cycles. It is possible that some other
process would influence cycle life and the slope of the graph could change
radically.
I'm wondering it the low cycle life on the 20% is because of end of charge
being hard on the battery
This might be an influence.
or becuse of just plane old age , as in many years
I would guess they did these tests on a battery cycler that ran
continuously. So 20% discharge at 1 C takes 20 minutes. Charge 1C than CV,
probably 30 minutes. Each cycle 50 minutes. 3,300 X 5/6 of an hour = 2,750
hours or about 115 days. Long enough test that you can see why they did not
test out to 13,200 cycles <G> but not long enough to give us any insight
into any possible effects of old age.
More info:
The 100% discharge cycle life test 1,437 cycles X 2.33 hours = 3,348 hours
or 140 days.
the 80% discharge cycle life test 2,900 cycles X 2 hours = 5,800 hours or
242 days.
It is clear why we never know everything about a new type of battery.
Battery testing requires lots of time and money. Cycle life testing is very
helpful but I would feel more comfortable talking about 13,200 cycles if I
knew about calendar life. A good test would be to cycle the cell 50 times
each month for 10 years but who wants to wait ten years? This is why big
companies are hesitant to use new battery chemistries in their products.
There might be a hidden 'Gotch'ya' down the line.
We, at ProEV, are really excited about these reformulated Kokam's. They
still deliver the high amps (5C/10C) and now 1,400 cycles at 100% discharge!
If the cycle life data tests out, their high price is not so unreasonable.
Time and testing will tell!
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dang, I've been looking for one of those. Unfortunately he wants it moved
within two weeks of the auction closing and I won't be back in the states
until July.
Good luck Steve.
> I put in a bid , if somebody else wants it , I'll set back , just looks
> like
> a easy conversion , and wouldn't want to see gas engine crammed in their
> :-)
> steve clunn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerryd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 5:48 AM
> Subject: Bradley GT EV kitcar available cheap in Fla on E bay
>
>
>>
>> Hi All,
>> Here's something from another list you may
>> like, a really nice looking Bradley-2 EV without batts,
>> motor, controller in Fla. It looks like one the factory made
>> EV stock though may just be one made by a customer.
>> It would make a great EV sportscar or good
>> freeway EV as it's lightweight, fairly aero. Just what one
>> needs in an EV.
>>
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRADLEY-GTII-REPLICA-KIT-CAR-FL_W0QQitemZ8046262470
>>
>>
>> HTH'
>> Jerry Dycus
>>
>>
>
>
--
If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do whatever I
wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your long
legalistic signature is void.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good point, I hadn't thought of that.
-Mike
On 3/14/06, STEVE CLUNN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> He may mean at night , when its not peak usage . Still , if they can sell
> all excess for more to Ontorio , then the less you buy the better for
> them.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 12:12 AM
> Subject: Re: new "This New Car" Radio Show now on-line
>
>
> > Sorry to keep harping on Gilles, but he just said something that struck
> > home.
> >
> > He said, "Just to tell you -the province of Manitoba - you showed me an
> > article just recently, they have enough electricity
> > _not_being_used_right_now_ to do plug-in hybrid vehicles for every
> vehicle
> > in Manitoba. Just think of it. They have enough energy, they're not
> using!
> > So a lot of electricity is going to be available."
> >
> > Ok, I live in Manitoba, and I'd sure like to see that article. Manitoba
> > Hydro is a government owned corporation that produces and sells
> > electricity
> > in Manitoba. They offer us huge grants to reduce our power use
> (insulation
> > rebates, free high efficiency lights, powersmart loans, energy reduction
> > grants, etc.). They do this because they sell our power to Ontario and
> the
> > United States for far more than they are allowed to here at home. _We_
> may
> > not be using that power, but someone is. It's not going "unused" and
> it's
> > not "going to be available."
> >
> > I'd love to see that article.
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/13/06, M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> ANOTHER episode of "This New Car" is now on-line (MP3 recording) at
> >> http://www.wicn.org/programs/thisnewcar/schedule.htm
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have additional data on how much the cycles are reduced when you
discharge at 2C to 5C as compared to the 1C during the bench test? They have
warnings not to exceed 5C but what happens at 4C.
Thanks
ProEV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Steve,
I found another copy of the graphs at
http://www.kokam.com/english/product/kokam_Lipo_01.html that display better
on my computer. After peering at them some more, I think my first method of
extrapolation which comes out with 13,200 shallow (20%) cycles before the
lithium polymer cells drop to 80% of original capacity does a better job of
matching the data we have.
If you look at the 100% discharge cycle life graph, the slope is flat (the
cell loses virtually no capacity) for the first 200 cycles and then begins
it's slope down to 1,400 cycles. For the 80% discharge cycle life graph, the
slope is flat (the cell loses virtually no capacity) for the first 1000
cycles and then begins to slope down. For the shallow (20% discharge) cycle
life graph, the graph seems to be a slight steady slope from the beginning
but no sharper drop off.
This means when you compare the number of cycles to 95% of original capacity
rather than the more standard 80% of original capacity, there is less
advantage to the shallow cycle regime
>> 100% 550 cycles which gives 55,000 amp-hrs
>> 80% 2,100 cycles which gives 168,000 amp-hrs
>> 20% 3,300 cycles which gives 66,000 amp-hrs
But if you match the graphs existing slope and extend it to 80% of original
capacity, the shallow discharge is not as good as the 80% discharge but
twice as good as the 100% discharge.
100% 1,400 cycles which gives 140,000 amp-hrs
80% 6,000 cycles which gives 480,000 amp-hrs
20% 13,200 cycles which gives 264,000 amp-hrs
It looks like the 100% discharge cycle life to 1,437 cycles is the only
complete data. The 80% discharge graph quits at 2,800 cycles and the 20%
discharge graph quits at 3,300 cycles. It is possible that some other
process would influence cycle life and the slope of the graph could change
radically.
> I'm wondering it the low cycle life on the 20% is because of end of charge
> being hard on the battery
This might be an influence.
>or becuse of just plane old age , as in many years
I would guess they did these tests on a battery cycler that ran
continuously. So 20% discharge at 1 C takes 20 minutes. Charge 1C than CV,
probably 30 minutes. Each cycle 50 minutes. 3,300 X 5/6 of an hour = 2,750
hours or about 115 days. Long enough test that you can see why they did not
test out to 13,200 cycles but not long enough to give us any insight
into any possible effects of old age.
More info:
The 100% discharge cycle life test 1,437 cycles X 2.33 hours = 3,348 hours
or 140 days.
the 80% discharge cycle life test 2,900 cycles X 2 hours = 5,800 hours or
242 days.
It is clear why we never know everything about a new type of battery.
Battery testing requires lots of time and money. Cycle life testing is very
helpful but I would feel more comfortable talking about 13,200 cycles if I
knew about calendar life. A good test would be to cycle the cell 50 times
each month for 10 years but who wants to wait ten years? This is why big
companies are hesitant to use new battery chemistries in their products.
There might be a hidden 'Gotch'ya' down the line.
We, at ProEV, are really excited about these reformulated Kokam's. They
still deliver the high amps (5C/10C) and now 1,400 cycles at 100% discharge!
If the cycle life data tests out, their high price is not so unreasonable.
Time and testing will tell!
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Travel
Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll make my own so that the suspension is only linked to the skateboard.
Rigidity is a big worry for me as well. There will have to be more angled
supports than I have yet included in the skateboard. GM's skateboards are a
box, with two layers of frame from front to back. The one I want to make
needs to be lower for the passenger compartment. I plan on mitigating that
somewhat by linking the front and back sections using the centre tunnel. But
still, I'm not sure it will be enough.
But once the existing fiero frame (what I don't trim out anyway) is mounted
that might solve the problem. Basically I want to have a dozen or so
extrememly robust pin-in-socket mount points between the skateboard and the
remaining Fiero frame.
-Mike
On 3/13/06, Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey Mike the renderings look neat. I few things I am curious about:
>
> Will you be using the same fiero suspension or devising your own?
>
> Are you planning on the skateboard idea or continue to use the Fiero
> frame.
> I am curious about the torsional rigidity of the skateboard frame.
>
> Don
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mike Ellis
> Sent: March 13, 2006 8:35 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: New Renders of remodelled skateboard Fiero up
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm not sure how many find this interesting, but I've finally got some
> time
> and access to Inventor again and I've made and posted some more renders of
> the work I did on the Skateboard Fiero in February.
>
> http://michael.ellis.googlepages.com/el-driverpage2
>
> -Mike
>
>
--- End Message ---
