EV Digest 5292
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Public charging in states other than California
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) New ADC9 101 pics and stuff
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: STM5-100 was : advise not using BB600 for long string
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Aluminum/Zinc air batteries
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Aluminum/Zinc air batteries
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: DC Motors for Racing (and Matt's Nissan 200SX)
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) rust removal
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Conversion time line?
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Public charging -- DC generator
by DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: rust removal
by lyle sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: my (theoretical) setup
by Pascal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Chloride controller on eBay
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: rust removal
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Bonn bad bot charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: STM5-100 was : advise not using BB600 for long string
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: STM5-100 was : advise not using BB600 for long string
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: STM5-100
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: STM5-100
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: STM5-100 was : advise not using BB600 for long string
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Speaking of EV-1 controllers...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: STM5-100 was : advise not using BB600 for long string
by "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Comments invited on battery and terminal selection
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) EV Article in Mother Earth News
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: EV Article in Mother Earth News
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) internal resistance
by Carl Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---Tom Shay wrote: > When I planned my EV conversion, I decided I'd never go anywhere > that would need a charge away from home... In my never so humble > opinion, charging away from home isn't worth the hassles of getting > and keeping permission, outlets turned off or with tripped GFCIs or > circuit breakers, something else plugged into "my outlet", vehicles > or equipment blocking access to the outlet, someone unplugging my > cord, etc. If you ever visit northern Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota etc. you will find that free 120vac receptacles are everywhere. They are intended for ICE block heaters so they'll start in subzero weather. No one ever cares if you use them, or charges for their use. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Hey EVeryone I got to got to work on a new ADC 9 today. It's the FB1-4001 without the tail shaft and it was sent in to have a speed sensor upgrade. Well I couldn't take it all apart without grabbing a few pics now could I?? The upgrade includes opening the CE plate face hole and drilling and tapping two holes. I also made a plug that extends the shaft to mount the magnet to. All in all a fairly straight forward job with no "fancy stuff", but I found some "Jimmy-no-likey" things that I attended to while I had this puppy was apart. When you get to the really jagged mica slot pics remember this is a brand new motor ("shivers down motor guys back") Yeeeeeee. Would anyone here want to leave those as is if it were your motor?? Anyways I got some new stuff at the site, some good pics of the Gone Postal front motor repairs and upgrades also for those who may not have been by in a while. http://www.hitorqueelectric Before I continue I just have to tell you all about my morning this is OT so some may wish to skip this section 8^ ) Now as I write this my right arm is just killing me because this morning I had a nurse come by for some "needed" tests cause I just got some life insurace (no worries, not enough for the family to kill me off yet). Anyway this gal comes by asks a bunch of questions and ended with drawing some of my blood, if you could call it that. It started off well enough but the blood didn't come out,or so I thought, lmao. Seeing my face she says I know I'm in cause there's blood here and proceeds to twist the needle and tube up so I can see this dab of blood dotting the plug. After what seems like her stirring a martiny for 5 minutes she decides she'll try the other tube. I'm at the point where I'm about to say something but the thought of her having to stick me again is just beyond any resonable thought, lmao!! Okay so she finally gets some red coming out but i! t just aint flowing good. At this point I start pumping my fists in an attempt at getting some blood out, which it finally did (probably stabbed through first vein to another deeper one, LMAO!!). BUT she tells me not to force the blood as it can damage the cells! I'm thinking to myself that if the blood moved any slower it clot on the Freaking tube before filling. Well the sadistic bitch finally succeeded in getting 2 tubes of blood but I'm telling you that 40,000 misquitoes would have done a better job. Maybe I should grab a pic and through it in the hall of Flame album, hehe. I just had to vent, stupid nurse, and she wasn't even cute! Anyway John Wayland came by later in the day with a "Hot" motor and a couple of smaller motors with shaft issues for future projects. Now I know that Wayland has been out there getting people to commit to going to the High Voltage Nationals this May and I wanted to plug the EVent here to. I'm really looking forward to attending and getting to meet EVeryone that can get up there and in fact am shutting the shop down a week so I can attend. I believe we'll have quite a group coming out from this side of the country and I hope that maybe we can get as many of you good folks up there as possible. Anyways I hope to see you in May 8^ ) BTW I am so digging the warmer weather returning after that greedy James Massey hording it all these months, LMAO!! (Oh hey James, hehe) Peace all Jim Husted Hi-Torque electric --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.
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--- Begin Message ---Hello David and others: I can understand John's frustration. Even though he scrambled a few specifics, I was thinking about alternative chemistry when I was bulding my truck (well, haven't we all ;). I got in touch which Saft and a few others, and, I wasn't that impressed. Yes, it's true the NiCads would last longer, work better in low temps, but IMHO it's not worth it. I did the math and I would have to buy a different charger (Brusa?), would have to re-design my battery cases and would have to shell out serious money for the Nicads. I would save around 700 lbs (which would certainly help) but I would just gain about 10 - 15% in range. On top of that: Who knows if we might be able to get LiIons for the same money in a year or two. And I would be 'stuck' with them NiCads :) Exchanging those darn NAPA floodies with Trojans gave me a feeling like I was hooked up to an extension cord at all times :) And IF I am ever to consider alternative chemistry, I must have the additional benefit of a serious increase in range. Otherwise I am going to stick with Trojans. I can replace them about 5 times for the price of a set of Nicads. That's 10 years (I hope). And should we not have some better battery technology available within the next few years, we are going to face serious problems anyway. Just my two cents. Michaela
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--- Begin Message ---Hi Bill, Nick, Lawson, and everyone else that responded to my original post:Those are the type of numbers that get me excited! Even if it had to be mechanically recharged - that's not so bad IMO. If power density is a problem, then parallel it with a small pack of Orbitals :)The holy grail, of course, is aluminum-air. It has energy densities currently around 800Wh/kg, and theoretically up to 1300Wh/kg. Even at 800Wh/kg, an aerodynamic car could go over 300 miles on 75kg of the stuff. That's not much more weight than a tank of gas!I'm still doing some "casual" research on the topic. I have a new book on my list - "Handbook of Batteries". I found it mentioned during my perusing today. I've still got a bug to build a prototype unit, but don't hold your breath for it. I'll let everyone know if and when I play around. I get caught thinking "if it hasn't hit mainstream yet, it must not be feasible". But then I remember that the 200sx is one of maybe two electric vehicles driving around in about a 100 mile radius (or more)! :)-Ryan -- - EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> - Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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--- Begin Message ---Hi Jim and everyone,Try http://www.electric-fuel.com/airelectrode/index.html, where you can actually buy a roll of material for an air electrode.Regards JimHehe...this is probably a no-no, but here's the response I got from them awhile back:I'm sure they have their reasons, but it seems if I were producing a product, I'd be happy to sell it. And if they're worried about having to support the product to a bunch of hobbyists, then jack the price up 400%. But just to say "no, we won't sell it to you"...hmmm??! From their website:I'm sorry to say that the E-4 cathode is presently not available for non-commercial purposes.Electric Fuel has been producing Air Electrodes for over 15 years for a large range of diverse applications from pocket chargers to electric vehicles. Our highly experienced team can deliver to you a high quality, low cost Air Electrode in large quantities for your application. We can supply an off-the-shelf product with or without separator layor, or our team can work with you to custom design an Air Electrode suited to your application.Interesting. -Ryan -- - EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> - Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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--- Begin Message ---Don,I was so impressed by John's description of Matt's 200sx I really want toknow more.What?! Another electric 200sx??! Matt, we need to talk!Yeah, those numbers aren't really that fun. We need a "real" dyno that can take 170V @ 2000 amps. Those would be impressive numbers!On the evsource web site, it lists the 9" Warp DC Motor as follows:* HP = 70 @ 120 Volts DC (435 Amps) * 116 Ft. pounds torqueI think this has been answered. But to recap, a WarP motor shouldn't see more than 170V (at least sustained). The Zillas can limit the motor voltage - as well as motor and battery current. So no problem with a 300V pack. This will also allow pretty much a constant 170V to the motor, even under heavy load. If you're using 300V of Orbs, and let them sag to 7V under heavy load, then you're still keeping 175V on the motor. Since I haven't experienced this thrill, I'll defer the description of the feeling to Plasmaboy.Not a huge amount, but Matt's car has 25 batteries, so he runs at 300V. I have a couple of questions about this: - what does 300V do to the torque and power? How much more is it?Just make sure your brushes are advanced at voltages above 120. All the WarP motors are shipping with advanced timing now. Non-advancement can be special ordered for lower voltages.- what happens to brushes when running at this voltage? Is it an issue or more of a maintenance issue?-Ryan -- - EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> - Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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--- Begin Message ---I'm using some angle iron to build battery boxes, etc. I guess could soak the parts in HCL, but I just heard of a better solution, but I don't know all the details. They said I could take a solution of water and Soda Ash (CaCO3) and then insert the piece of steel in the water, and then take 12 volt dc power supply and put one lead on the metal, and the other into the water. Not sure which lead goes where + or -? Also not sure of the concentration, or amps required. any suggestions would be great. thanks in advance! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---Hi Seth,I stopped counting at around 250 hours. I estimate I'm in the 350-400 hours. Several of those were researching. Many were spent being anal about how I did things. I did a lot of rewiring and rerouting of existing wires.Does anyone have notes on where the time is spent in converting a car?The "demolition" was a small chunk of the total amount. It took time to sell off as many of the ICE components as possible. I think I got around $150 for the engine and $90 for the turbocharger.I have heard estimates of 100 to 200 hours, but I was wondering what percentage of that is demolition and what percent is construction.-Ryan -- - EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> - Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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--- Begin Message ---I have worked at my job for 23 years and have not been able to charge there for the 13 I have had EVs. I have heard every excuse imagined including "homeless people will use the plug to cook with". I don't push it 'cause I like my job. As a result, I plan trips that do not require charging to get back home. My round trip to work is 58 miles (about 10 too many) so I am contemplating using an old dc generator to charge both ways, the problem is that it is 115 volts. Has anyone used a dc generator to charge a pack? http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Kohler/KohlerMenu1.htm Model 1.5M5 Thanks, Jimmy From: "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ok, it's true. I plugged in without asking. He said he'd "set something up for me" but that I couldn't keep using those outlets and didn't explain why. I wonder if he thinks the charger draws an unsafe amount of amperage. What about approaching state legislature about charging spots like California has? Is this a fool's errand? Is there a good way to write a letter without sounding like a fringe lunatic? Thanks, Rich
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--- Begin Message ---http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp --- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm using some angle iron to build battery boxes, > etc. > > I guess could soak the parts in HCL, but I just > heard > of a better solution, but I don't know all the > details. > > They said I could take a solution of water and Soda > Ash (CaCO3) and then insert the piece of steel in > the > water, and then take 12 volt dc power supply and put > one lead on the metal, and the other into the water. > > Not sure which lead goes where + or -? > > Also not sure of the concentration, or amps > required. > > any suggestions would be great. > > thanks in advance! > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---Thx for the link Bruce, I'll look at the site later today. Thx for the info Lee, Just out of curiosity, what would you suggest which battery's I should take instead of the T-145? Which is suitable for the Curtis controller first, and perhaps on a later date with a Zilla? Like I stated earlier, I haven't been around this list for a while, so I just picked up where I left this list a few months ago. Hillclimbing btw. is not an issue here in the netherlands, particulary the part where I live, highest climb is almost 2 meters (and that is to drive over a bridge :-) ) Pascal Pascal wrote: > 12 or 14 Trojan T-145 6v 260 AH battery's > A Curtis controller (perhaps even a Zilla if my bank > account permits it :) > DC/DC converter (for radio, cd and car lights etc.) > a 9.1" Advanced DC engine 24-120v design (up to > > This lot will be placed somewhere on a beetle chassis > minus the ICE and perhaps I'll drop the clutch too. > > So let me hear what you think of it, even if it is > totally crap, I need the info before I continue to buy > the stuff. 12-14 6v batteries is a 72-84v pack, good for about 500a max. That's really too low to bother with a 9" motor or Zilla controller. I would suggest using a 6.7" motor instead; a used 48v Prestolite MTC-4001 for example. You won't overheat this motor before the pack goes dead, so a larger motor is mostly superfluous. Likewise for the controller. A Curtis 1221C would be adequate, and a 1231C should be plenty. The Zilla is a much nicer controller, but only justifiable if you expect to significantly upgrade your systems someday. I'd keep the clutch. With a lower-power system like this, shifting provides better accelleration and hillclimbing. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message --- They were (I think) for a SEPEX. I have the mark IV fitted in my EV - see www.bedfordev.flyer.co.ukThey seem to be a good reliable controller - mine is 20yrs old. Only failings I have heard of is failing Field control transistor, and the E-Meter circuitry.John----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:58 PM Subject: Chloride controller on eBayJust out of curiousity, was this controller meant for a shunt/sep-ex motor:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7604707406 If so, where are appropriate motors sold? -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.2/294 - Release Date: 27/03/2006
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--- Begin Message ---Got an torch? Get it hot and the rust will be gone. mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm using some angle iron to build battery boxes, etc. I guess could soak the parts in HCL, but I just heard of a better solution, but I don't know all the details. They said I could take a solution of water and Soda Ash (CaCO3) and then insert the piece of steel in the water, and then take 12 volt dc power supply and put one lead on the metal, and the other into the water. Not sure which lead goes where + or -? Also not sure of the concentration, or amps required. any suggestions would be great. thanks in advance! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.
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--- Begin Message ---kluge wrote: > mulling over the Bonn bad boy circuit Lee Hart shared with us: > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/bonn_charger.html > I'm unclear on why a transformer is rewound into a series inductor > for this instead of just being used as a transformer to buck the > voltage down, or boost it up for a pack voltage which is below or > above 144. A simple transformer-rectifier charger has no current limit other than the random resistance of the wiring. A small change in voltage causes a large change in current; the charger can destroy itself if the pack voltage is too low, and won't charge at all if the pack voltage is too high. You can use a transformer, variac, or autotransformer to "trim" the charger voltage to something just over the battery voltage to limit the current. But this adjustment is quite sensitive. The current will still change a lot with AC line voltage or pack voltage You can use a higher voltage than necesary, and deliberately add resistance to limit the maximum current into a dead pack. Now the charger won't trip breakers or destroy itself (the 'bad boy' charger). But this lowers efficiency, and things get hot. The Bonn charger replaces this resistance with an inductance. An inductor limits the current like a resistor. But unlike resistors, inductors don't convert the excess voltage into heat. The result is a higher efficiency, cooler-running charger. The inductor also acts like a flywheel. It lowers the peak current, and spreads it out. This is much better for the wiring and rectifiers. The inductor also lowers the power factor, which means you get less charging current out of a given receptacle. However, you can correct this by adding the capacitor shown in the Bonn charger schematic. If you compared a 120vac transformer-rectifier charger, a 'bad boy' charger, and a Bonn charger, all charging the same 96vdc pack, at 3 different states of charge, you'd get something like this: Charger Type Vinput Vrect Vpeak SOC Vpack Ipeak Iave Effic ------------ ------ ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ---- ----- Trans-rectifier 120vac 96vac 134v 0% 96v 38a 12a 71% 120vac 96vac 134v 50% 108v 26a 8a 80% 120vac 96vac 134v 100% 120v 14a 4a 85% Bad-Boy charger 120vac 120vac 168v 0% 96v 72a 10a 57% 120vac 120vac 168v 50% 108v 60a 8a 64% 120vac 120vac 168v 100% 120v 48a 5a 71% Bonn charger 120vac 100vac 100v 0% 96v 30a 11a 74% 120vac 112vac 112v 50% 108v 20a 9a 82% 120vac 124vac 124v 100% 120v 12a 6a 88% The transformer-rectifier charger steps down the 120vac input to 96vac to power the bridge. It's efficiency is good, and it gets 12a of charging current from a 15a AC receptacle. But its charging current varies 3:1 as the batteries go from 0%-100% SOC. 4a is kind of low at the end, and 12a at the start just barely avoids tripping a breaker. If your AC line voltage is high today, or the pack voltage was depressed by a recent drive, it's likely to blow the 15a breaker when you try to recharge. But if you get the voltage taps "just right", it roughly delivers a high "bulk" current and low "finish" current. That's why this type of charger is so common. The Bad Boy replaces the transformer with a resistor (usually a collection of cords and connectors). The rectified voltage is too high (168v peak), so it burns up the excess in the resistance. Efficiency suffers accordingly. The charging current only changes 2:1 from 0% to 100% SOC; too low to "bulk" charge quickly, or too high for a safe "finish" charge rate. But you can "get by" if you fiddle with cords etc. The Bonn replaces the Bad Boy's random resistance with an inductor. This eliminates the resistive losses, which improves efficiency. It's actually a little more efficient than a transformer-rectifier charger because an inductor is a little more efficient than a transformer. Like the Bad boy, it has less variation in current into a 0%-100% SOC pack. Don Bonn dealt with this by having a high/low switch; high for bulk, low for finish. This also provided a way to handle high AC line voltage and/or excessively low pack voltages. The AC voltage into the rectifier looks peculiar; for instance, it can be *higher* than the AC line voltage. That's because of the inductor's "flywheel" effect. The waveform going into the bridge rectifier is actually closer to a square wave than a sine wave, so its peak is no longer 1.4 times the RMS value, but almost the same. None of these chargers is "better" than the others. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses, and may be "best" in certain applications. -- Ring the bells that still can ring Forget the perfect offering There is a crack in everything That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen -- Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Apologies for the confusion in my terminology in previous posting. Each battery is a 6volt block of 3 cells wired in series. Each cell (and therefore pack) is marked at 160 AH. This is the 10 hour rating. In a later posting I told that these are ex UPS power supply batteries that have been floated for 18mths - 2yrs and then discarded (sold very cheaply). So - in my experience - the AGM's are ahead in both longevity and price at the moment - simply because I cannot find any STM5-100 users in the UK (as yet) that have got more than 30,000 MILES - Philippe reports 39000Kilometres (about 24000 miles) and one user in the nordic countries with 62k Miles - and I cannot find any that carry a priceanywhere near the cost of lead, either new or secondhand. So it makes more economic sense for me to run AGM's. The battery packs in Citroen and Peugeot vehicles in the UK,that I know about , that have failed have caused loss of electrolyte by melting of the cases. This may, as Philippe says, be due to the OEM bad design of maintenance routine - but what is an owner supposed to do if the makers do not allow us to have enough information to perform battery watering without spending many hundreds of pounds on so called "smart" ODBII interfaces. A simple "button" on the dash to do a maintenance charge and a simple "topping up "point would solve the problems associated with underwatering problems. Nearly all of these vehicles were initially sold to corporate customers with maintenance arrangements - and yet even with the OEM maintaining the batteries they still fail. Philippe says the care regime is probably the cause of early failure in the Nicads. - So come on Philippe "spill the beans" what should we be doing that the manufacturer of the EV is not doing in the service routine and how can us enthusiastic owners do this properly without wasting our hard earned dollars. John
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--- Begin Message ---Chris said >Ok. If you can get me 50 STM-100 batteries for 10-11k I will seriously consider it.Just send an email to SAFT and they will quote you the same as they did me £250 per STM 100.John
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--- Begin Message --->>> Philippe says the care regime is probably the cause of early failure in the Nicads. - So come on Philippe "spill the beans" what should we be doing that the manufacturer of the EV is not doing in the service routine and how can us enthusiastic owners do this properly without wasting our hard earned dollars. <<< I'm only guessing here, but what about watering more often?
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--- Begin Message --->Philippe Borges wrote: > >> For $11000 and good care your batteries will last way more than 1500 cycles >> which turn to be minimum 120 000km (80 000 miles) still giving near 80% of >> initial capacity. >> They Will give you every day 80km range, winter and summer (55 miles) >> without worring about deep discharge (opposite in fact) > >Ok. If you can get me 50 STM-100 batteries for 10-11k I will seriously >consider it. I think Philippe is quoting ~$11K for a 144V pack; 300V of NiCds is closer to $23K. You should be comparing them to an equivalent pack of floodies, not AGMs, since you have similar maintanence issues. You can't used these in the bolted-in-place battery case of a Ranger EV due to these same issues (as well as the funky shape restrictions of those 8V Delphis!), but they sound like a good choice for Solectria drivers who do a long work commute.
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--- Begin Message ---On 3/28/06, John Luck Home <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There is no secret the YUASA batteries are pictured (1 of them) on my site > www.bedfordev.flyer.co.uk. > > There are 36 x 6volt 188A/H AGM , 216volt pack, and the makers claim a life > of 10yrs. SAFT claim 70,000Km fore their Nicads but its a bit of a lottery > as there were problems prior to 1999 with these monoblocs going shortcircuit > and melting and I cannot find anyone who has driven more than about 30,000 > miles on one set of batteries. Indeed there are many of these vehicles in UK > that are non-runners being stripped for parts because of battery failure and > due to the cost of buying new ones make them uneconomic. John, I'll be happy to buy your Nicad pack when you've replaced it with magic AGMs ;) Regards Evan
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--- Begin Message ---...there's one in this Jet Electric Plymouth: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4626676431
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--- Begin Message --- Forgot to say the AGM's are 33Kg - I didn't claim they were the same weight as the Nicads and even declared in my original mail the energy density was different. You don't get ought for nought !! ----- Original Message ----- From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:17 PM Subject: Re: STM5-100 was : advise not using BB600 for long stringWow, you found some very light weight AGMs that put out 100 ahrs and will last 1500 cycles. I'm impressed :-)Something about your equation below does not add up. My guess is that the two EVs you mention are totally different. From my experience a 6 volt AGM that could push a normal EV and still deliver 100 ahrs would weigh at least 60 pounds and it certainly would not last 1500 cycles at that rate. A 6 volt STM5-100 module weighs 28 pounds.damonFrom: "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [email protected] To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: STM5-100 was : advise not using BB600 for long string Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:24:47 +0100It is easy for me to compare like with like as I operate two Electric Vehicles.One vehicle runs from 36 AGM 6 volt cells which are providing 50 miles per day at 40 - 55 MPH.The other EV runs on STM5-100 Nicads and again give me 50 miles per day and 40- 55 MPH.HOWEVER - here comes the crunch - both sets of batteries have the same life expectancy and yet to replace the AGM's will cost me around $1000 and the Nicads will cost me 10 times that amount.So it is a simple conclusion that the STM Nicads ARE very much more expensive even though their energy density is higher it is not an economic way to proceed.It means that the EV with Nicads is not economical once the batteries are no good as the cost price of the vehicle is only $8000.It is a simple equation John----- Original Message ----- From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 6:23 PM Subject: Re: STM5-100 was : advise not using BB600 for long stringLet me say you have a good price !very expensive ? it's only one part of equation, expensive compared to what? lithium ? lead acid ? apples ? (sorry) no ! compared to a service !For $11000 and good care your batteries will last way more than 1500 cycles which turn to be minimum 120 000km (80 000 miles) still giving near 80% ofinitial capacity. They Will give you every day 80km range, winter and summer (55 miles) without worring about deep discharge (opposite in fact)This said, write real numbers for competitors and then you will find whichis expensive and which is a good battery choice, though at a high initial price, for every day use "forget me" commute.I'm sorry to say there is no simple choice for such OEM car as you MUST useexactly same batteries or you will have to switch all EV components which are controlled by the Electronic Control Unit (charger, DC-DC,controller...and even maybe the sepex motor/gearbox/diff. if you can't findsuitable sepex controller...) So imho your choice are: -puting $10 000 to assemble a completely new EV system "maybe better" car (licensing it again etc.) -puting $11 000 in batteries and just drive it -finding another one second hand with good batteries (let me say near impossible nowdays) -...junkyard it :^( cordialement, Philippe Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ? quel carburant choisiriez-vous ? http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php----- Original Message ----- From: "John Luck Home" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:24 AM Subject: STM5-100 was : advise not using BB600 for long stringPhilippe said:- > imho, STM5-100 will stay here for few years more... >> from one point of view it's a very good thing because this batteries > >are > the > best EV batterie actually at their price (remember always stating imho, > not > starting a debat here) > What price have you been quoted Philippe. I asked SAFT for a price andtheysaid £250 per 6v battery. ($450). To re-equip my Citroen this would cost around £6000 ($11000). I think they are very expensive. Amities John-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.2/294 - Release Date: 27/03/2006-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.2/294 - Release Date: 27/03/2006
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--- Begin Message ---At this point I'm considering the Universal Battery UB121100 for my Geo Metro EV battery pack: http://www.universalpowergroup.com/specs/D5751.pdf http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/701.html The UB121100 is a group 31 VRLA of [EMAIL PROTECTED] The plan is to install 1 series string of 11 of these for 132v. Because of battery box height limits they would be installed on their sides. Anyone see any problems with this configuration or had negative outcomes with a Universal battery? The Universal battery UB12100 has 3 terminal options: 1. a flag terminal using a 3/8" bolt and nut. 2. a B2 terminal which has been described as a 6mm bolt inserting into a hole in the battery tops, thus perhaps a lower profile then the flag terminal. 3. a Z post containing a 3/8" bolt and nut. The interior of the battery boxes are electrically conductive steel so avoiding terminal contact is essential. My cabling includes Cobra 2 AWG and 4 AWG. The lugs on the 2 AWG cable ends are about 3/4" long (max.) , 5/8" wide. They are rounded like a half moon not squared off/rectangular. Holes will accommodate a 10/32 screw and could be drilled out for 1/4". My guess is that the B2 terminal might be the best choice if it is lower profile then the other 2 terminal types. But if the batteries are blocked up well so they don't shift position maybe it doesn't matter much. If the cable lugs will take a 1/4" bolt but the flag and z posts are made for 3/8", is that really an issue? Just use lock washers and it will work okay? Mark --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
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--- Begin Message ---The most recent issue of Mother Earth News has a good article on Electric Vehicles. Talks a lot about NEV's, but does include home conversions, cost comparisons, and advantages of electric vehicles. Imagine that ! ! ! If anyone would like a copy, e-mail me directly. I will try to scan over the weekend. They also included that they would be having additional Electric Vehicle articles in future issues. Dennis Elsberry, MO.<<application/ms-tnef>>
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--- Begin Message ---Thanks Dennis; I would however caution against publicly announcing your willingness to re-distribute published works....... That said, the Mother Earth News folks were kind enough to put the article on-line for us. http://www.motherearthnews.com/top_articles/2006_April_and_May/Drive_and_EV_and_Never_Buy_Gas_Again Stay Charged! Hump Original Message ----------------------- > _____________________________________________ > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ] > On Behalf Of Pestka, Dennis J > Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:48 AM > To: 'EV Discussion Group' > Subject: EV Article in Mother Earth News > > The most recent issue of Mother Earth News has a good article on Electric > Vehicles. > Talks a lot about NEV's, but does include home conversions, cost > comparisons, and advantages of electric vehicles. > Imagine that ! ! ! > > If anyone would like a copy, e-mail me directly. > I will try to scan over the weekend. > > They also included that they would be having additional Electric Vehicle > articles in future issues. > > Dennis > Elsberry, MO. > > > >
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--- Begin Message ---I am investigating a pack for a 48v motorcycle conversion and looking at Hawker 0770-2007s as they are small and I could configure them such that they would mimick the original shape of the ice. When I go to the spec sheet, I notice much higher internal resistance for the smaller batteries. 8.5 mohm vs 3.5 at the other end of the spectrum. http://www.enersysstationary.com/documents/US_GPL_SG_001_0303.pdf So my question is this: Does this really represent an apples to apples comparison? If I were to parallel 4 of the small ones, would the internal resistance of the set approach a battery of a similar weight? Or put another way, since I will be paralleling these, and drawing 1/4 of the current from each of these that I would from a single battery, will that compensate for at least some of this internal resistance difference? Thanks Carl Clifford grinless :-| Denver
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