EV Digest 5300
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Fast Street Car with Twin DC Motors
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Hydrogen: The Emperor Is Naked
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: DC Motors for Racing ft.lbs. and hp
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Hydrogen: The Emperor Is Naked, More Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) 96v charge only goes to 121.5 & 5 amps. Wrong resistor?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: DC Motors for Racing ft.lbs. and hp
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Fast Street Car with Twin DC Motors
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Fast Street Car with Twin DC Motors, wiring.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) The emperor...
by "David McWethy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Fast Street Car with Twin DC Motors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Fast Street Car with Twin DC Motors, Reverse comments'
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: PFC-20 and regulator woes
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Cable making tool rental
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Dumb question time
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: internal resistance
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: STM5-100
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: rust removal
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: rust removal
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Hydrogen: The Emperor Is Naked
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Hydrogen: The Emperor Is Naked
by Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Would like large AGM with good EV user history
by Mark Freidberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: my (theoretical) setup, comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I would think that the connection corrosion would be a significant problem,
Lee. Also the expansion/contraction on the alum. wire is much greater, and
could cause problems. At least, it does in AC wiring (homes & businesses) -
so much so that I won't use it anymore, unless it's a short-term temp setup.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: Fast Street Car with Twin DC Motors
> Rich Rudman wrote:
> > .151 seconds away from hitting the 11's, I'll stick to having just
> > fat 4/0 cables and thick copper bus bars inter-connecting the twin
> > motor sections of the Siamese 8.
>
> For you racers, where every ounce counts... Why not use aluminum buss
> bars and wiring? Aluminum is only slightly less conductive, but 1/3rd
> the weight of copper. So an aluminum wire of a given resistance is
> physically larger, but much lighter. You'd be taking 10's of pounds of
> copper out of the car.
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget the perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey, I have hydrogen in my EV.
The czonka main contactor is filled with it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Rich, all
Thought I'd throw back some info on this and even ask a question or two 8^ )
>Snip
What we need now Jim, is a Warp 8 that has some real motor mods done to
it... Like tighter air gaps, Shimmed field shoes...
I actually have a little stock pile of shims from back when they used them
and I don't throw anything away. i've been saving these for going on 15 years.
So this is doable.
>and then some field weakening to compensate for less RPM.
I've actually discussed (with a few folks) doing a tap on the coils at the
25% wrap and add additional terminals (as appossed to an external field
Weakening) but the 8's and 9's are really tight (as I'd have to route the new
wire/cable between the housing and the back of the coil. FT wants me to try
this on the big twin to Waylands Yellow Beast and being there is the room to
easily do this on a big Allis Chalmers it will become a good test subject vs.a
whole lot more work on an 8 or 9 and then find out it isn't worth it, hehe.
John said there was one thing that doing it this way would be nice, but I can't
remember what that was, lmao!!
<Or some 7075 -T6 End caps and bearing
holders... and about 4 inches less case Steel.
Okay the 7075 is aluminum right?? is there something special, lighter than
what ADC is using?? I have no idea what a T6 end cap is though?
As to shortening 4" from an 8 well it could happen but both armature and
fields would have to be rewound alot shorter. There's maybe 3/4" that could be
shaved off the housing before hitting coil, and you must allow for the inner
foot of the CE plate to sit inside the housing a tad. Now if you are talking
"wack the housing and let the coils hang out both ends and then make longer
plates, well then you'd just need 2 plates made 8^ ) If you removed all that
housing mass wouldn't you loose some saturation aspect to the motor?? I've
been afraid to remove anymore than it takes to get the case even. Your
thoughts here would be nice??
>And you need to find brushes... that are right for the wet side of the
hills.
What kind of issues are you having up there?? If you or anyone has a bad
brush send it down and I'll throw it at my brush people and tell them the
voltage and see what they recommend.
>Stiff drink time... Move brushes on the Siamease 8.. Funn Right??...
I just spent about a 1/2 an hour staring at the CE plate at Johns site and
getting the holders passed the terminal and a window big enough to swing a
small lever are the two issues.. If you wacked the one leg off the one window
support foot where they have that narrow access hole (leaving just the bolt
hole area) then you would have a bigger window with enough swing to reverse
direction (even if it were a tad on the retarded side). I could route the
wires differently and open the plate a tad and if John got me some of that
really bitchen "Superflex" cable it just might happen, but I fear not this
year.
Another month and I couldn't pry that motor out of his or Tim's cold dead
fingers, LMAO!
Just to let you know much of this is on my to do list, but alas I'm a small
new company and lack funds to do what I'd like, so I baby step it and do what I
can, what I need is victims...I mean a fat daddy.. I mean a paton willing to
cough up a buck to try some of this stuff. Maybe I'll start playing the lotto.
In reality i'm doing as I said I'd do and that is take small steps and see
where they lead us. If I can quote you here "You don't go after a record you
sneak up on it" I never forgot those words and use them wisely. The problem
is in getting the info and data back. Much of what I've done so far is still
untested.
It is funny though looking back at even the Siamese 8 and what I'm doing now
and I can see the improvements, but still much to do. It's been a fun year and
I believe some really cool stuff will be coming as a matter of fact I know it
will, wink, wink.
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-torque Electric
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 5:41 PM
Subject: RE: Hydrogen: The Emperor Is Naked
> Lee,
>
> "Amen, brother"
> Thanks for the vivid example,
> you could not have said it better,
> this is what drives me to keep my EV on the road!
>
Same here, why I'm out in the garage fixing up my tired Rabbit. Folks saw
me drive it EVery day. At the local stores nobody really notices anymore.Oh
yeah, the Electric car guy.
> Also agree to explain to kids - they will have to
> live on this earth longer than we; in a sense we
> are borrowing it from them, though few see it that way.
> I Did stick a handwritten sign on my car" I'm Saving some Gas for my
Grandkids"Next to the God Bless our Troops, I wrote on that one: God DAMN
those that put them in harm's way Big Oil Interest$' I have gotten thunbs up
on that one, many times.
>>
> Cor van de Water wrote:
> > ...continued support for Hydrogen could be explained as an attempt
> > to avoid confrontation with uncomfortable truths (that alternative
> > energies like Hydrogen are not a solution today).
> > EVen the Germans gave up on that.Same folks that were pretty creative
making gas from coal, stuff like that.
> > How long will it take for them to realize that there are EVs which
> > are efficient and cost-competitive and available today?
> > Helloooo - somebody listening?
> > Hell no. We have a heavy torch to carry.
> > I will continue to make my statement - by simply driving to work
> > every day.
>
> I like Steve Clunn's image. Imagine you're in a bus racing across the
> countryside, packed with people. It's dark and very foggy, and you can
> barely see ahead. But the driver is an expert, and he knows the road,
> and is on a tight schedule, so he barrels along at full speed. You're
> not worried.
> Do ya remenber the old, 40 years old? Shelly Berman comedy monologue
about flying in the piston plane era. He starts in with" They try out each
engine......ONE at a time, and you listen for a bad one, and you hear one
every time. But you don't know WHO to report it to.What it boils down to is
you would rather die than make an ass of yourself" And of course the plane
has to roll to get up to speed, and it rolls and rolls and ROLLS, To hell
with science it isn't gunna make it tonight, but at last you're winging
through space, not a damn thing down there but AIR !!"
The vague analogy here is; the energy thing is real, but you don't know to
who or anybody to report it to. And you don't wanna make an ass of yourself,
so we die slowly in Diseasel soot and gas fumes. To me the issue isn't
finding more oil, it's the damage to our planet that the damn FOUND oil is
doing.
> But then you begin to think. Didn't I hear something in the news, just
> before we left, about the bridge being out on this road? Since no one
> else seems to be worried, you ignore it, too. Maybe it was some other
> bridge. Maybe the driver will take a detour.
>
> Time passes. The bus doesn't turn, and doesn't slow down. Maybe, if
> you're brave, you get up and tell the driver what you heard on the
> radio. But he's confident, even arrogant; he won't listen. "I know what
> I'm doing. You're wrong. That bridge couldn't have fallen down, or my
> dispatcher would have told me."
>
> You try to forget it, but more you think, the more you are sure that the
> news report said the bridge was out. But still, you might be mistaken,
> or the news report might have been wrong. What do you do?
>
> Do you make a big fuss? Holler and yell, try to get the other passengers
> alarmed, threaten that the bus stop "or else"? More than likely, that
> would get you in trouble. You'd be branded as a nut, maybe prosecuted as
> a terrorist. If you do nothing, and the bridge *is* out, you might be
> killed. Or, the bus may detour due to some route change you didn't know
> about, and you'd still get arrested for causing a commotion.
>
> Experience has shown that alarmists in our society are largely ignored,
> marginalized, or even persecuted. You can't make people change their
> minds. Most people prefer to believe "authorities", even in the face of
> evidence to the contrary. They will sit and do nothing, trusting in the
> authorities, right to the bitter end when the "crash" is imminent and
> only a fool would deny it.
>
That's where the good old USA is going!
> When I first started driving my EVs, I tried to be an EVangelist and
> convince others. It was hopeless. I just got ignored, ridiculed, and
> branded at a nutcase. I gave up.
>
> So my solution is to say, "Excuse me driver, but I heard the bridge is
> out. I'm getting off the bus, right here, right now. The rest of you can
> do as you please, but I'm going my own way, thank you." Maybe a few
> others will think, "He doesn't seem like a nut; maybe he's onto
> something. I think I'll get off, too."
> So they see ya driving yur EVand ignore gas rationing and "no Sales"
daze.
THEN the EV looks pretty good! Especially you CA folks with the solar
arrays, you are light years ahead of in the Big East! I often thought as CA
goes goes the rest of the nation.
> I drive my EVs. But I don't proselytize, or fight for legislation to
> force people to change; I seek to convince them by setting an example.
> If they see me, every day, going back and forth to work, to school, to
> the store; year in and year out; maybe a few will change their minds.
>
> And, I teach kids. Their minds are not as closed as adults. They can
> change; they'll be the ones who will "get off the bus" in time.
> -- And our, my generation, in my/our 60's the age or a tad older than the
powers-that-be That we get down on our knees and apologize to our children,
for the mess we have left them. I want things to be better for my grandkid,
on the way. " You know, your Grandfather led the way back at the turn of the
Century, with the Electric car renassance"HE was driving and promoting EV's
before they went into production" What better thing could they say at your
memorial service?
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got a K&WBC20 in Bob's Curbwatt & it's gassing & lost 5 of it's 10 charging
amps. It seems to be stalling at 121.5 @ 5 amps. I'd think it should go to
124 and the amps drop to near zero. It's a new pack of US 125's @ (96v /16
batteries). The charger is setup with the 102v resistor. Maybe a different
resistor??????(the 108)
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
>> What we need now Jim, is a Warp 8 that has some real motor mods done
>> to it... Like tighter air gaps, Shimmed field shoes...
Jim Husted wrote:
> I actually have a little stock pile of shims from back when they
> used them and I don't throw anything away. So this is doable.
Shimming the field would reduce the air gap. This will raise torque and
reduce rpm, but have little detectable effect on horsepower or
efficiency. Is that what you wanted, Rich?
>> and then some field weakening to compensate for less RPM.
> I've discussed doing a tap on the coils at the 25% wrap and add
> additional terminals (as opposed to an external field weakening)
> but the 8's and 9's are really tight.
If you weaken the field by using fewer turns of heavier wire so it still
fills the space, you would actually gain a little bit of efficiency and
horsepower. But if you tap the field so you are only using part of the
winding space, you'll lose some efficiency. But "turns is turns" as far
as torque/speed vs. amps/volts are concerned.
For changes like these, you need to know where you are going. You'll
need a dyno or other measuring instrumentation to know whether you are
making progress or not.
>> some 7075-T6 end caps and bearing holders... and about 4 inches
>> less case Steel.
> Okay the 7075 is aluminum right?
7075 is an aluminum alloy. -T6 is the temper; (T0 is dead soft, and T6
is quite hard).
> Is there something special, lighter than what ADC is using?
> As to shortening 4" from an 8" well it could happen but both
> armature and fields would have to be rewound alot shorter.
I'm guessing that Rich is suggesting that the end caps be machined as
aluminum "cups" that are 2" or 3" deep, like you see on many smaller
motors. The iron body is shortened, and the end cups lengthend so the
overall length of the motor is the same. Or in this case, maybe you
shorten it by removing the internal fan and using an external blower
instead.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED] wrote:
> Man, I gotta get some money to play with. It seems to me that
> if we could rotate the brush rigging 90 degrees, we would
> have reverse without any contactors.
Hey Jeff you and me both, lmao!!
<Money, schmoney! ;^>
<You've got a series motor, just unbolt the comm endbell and rotate it 90
degrees and then power up the motor with no load and verify if it spins
forward or reverse.
Hey everyone.
Thought I'd chime in here. First off swinging the holders over would in fact
work. Picture the "A1" terminal running to the 12 and 9 Oclock position. If
you rotate it it changes to the 6 and 9 spots and rotation reverses. In fact
at 45 degrees the motor would stall and then would switch rotation begining in
the retarded position, so I believe a "full" 90 may not be needed.
< The only torque trying to rotate the comm endbell is the drag from the
brushes, so if you can't or don't want to bolt it up 90 degrees rotated,
just use a couple of big hose clamps around the motor case and endbell
to secure it with a short length of flat stock.
I believe he wants a variable timed brush setup. These plates have a light
press fit and do not easily slide along the housing lip. Also you'd be
surprised how much side pull these motors get. I have test plates that I have
to manually hold (no mount holes) and it's a fair amount of presure or the
plate will pop loose and cause the armature to drag. I'd caution anyone from
running the motors without bolts in place.
This still gets complicated for John, or other siamese/dual motor users,
since both comm endbells would need to be rotated, but it would get rid
of additional contactors in the high current loop.
Cheers,
Roger.
I've thought alot about how to rotate the whole plate assy and without a
whole lot of money and a big bulky plate to housing bearing lined locking
interface it's alot easier to just swing the ring, but then again it ain't a
whistle in the park to get it to swing 90 degrees and then back. But that
don't mean it's undoable.
Hey just my two cents
Cya
Jim Husted
hi-Torque electric
---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: Fast Street Car with Twin DC Motors
> Rich Rudman wrote:
> > .151 seconds away from hitting the 11's, I'll stick to having just
> > fat 4/0 cables and thick copper bus bars inter-connecting the twin
> > motor sections of the Siamese 8.
>
> For you racers, where every ounce counts... Why not use aluminum buss
> bars and wiring? Aluminum is only slightly less conductive, but 1/3rd
> the weight of copper. So an aluminum wire of a given resistance is
> physically larger, but much lighter. You'd be taking 10's of pounds of
> copper out of the car.
> -- HI everybody;
Good point, but isn't connecting aluminum wires an issue with
resistance?Or why they got rid of it in home wiring? I guess ya could just
routinely tighten things up as a maintainence thing?
My tow ohms worth'
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And, I teach kids. Their minds are not as closed as adults. They can
change; they'll be the ones who will "get off the bus" in time.
And help those of us who have the will but not the clue. Thanks, Lee.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Strubhar wrote:
> I would think that the connection corrosion would be a significant
> problem, Lee. Also the expansion/contraction on the alum. wire is
> much greater, and could cause problems.
I agree; it's harder to make good connections with aluminum. But this is
a solvable problem. And they're dealing with race cars, not daily
drivers.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:40 PM
Subject: RE: Fast Street Car with Twin DC Motors
> Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Man, I gotta get some money to play with. It seems to me that
> > if we could rotate the brush rigging 90 degrees, we would
> > have reverse without any contactors.
>
> Money, schmoney! ;^>
>
> You've got a series motor, just unbolt the comm endbell and rotate it 90
> degrees and then power up the motor with no load and verify if it spins
> forward or reverse.
>
> The only torque trying to rotate the comm endbell is the drag from the
> brushes, so if you can't or don't want to bolt it up 90 degrees rotated,
> just use a couple of big hose clamps around the motor case and endbell
> to secure it with a short length of flat stock.
>
> This still gets complicated for John, or other siamese/dual motor users,
> since both comm endbells would need to be rotated, but it would get rid
> of additional contactors in the high current loop.
>
Hi EVerybody;
This reverse thing seems to be a popular topic, I sorta side with J.
Wayland on not wanting reverse contacters, because they could loose power at
his zillions of amps at launch. I THINK Matt Graham uses them, on HIS car,
with not too much loss. If I EVer get to this point with hy powered
streetcars I think I would setup a small starter motor underneith the car, a
V, or cog belt loosly around the driveshaft, well a RWD car, like Zombie,
If the clutch pedal is still in place you could tighten the motor against
the drive shaft.Step on the clutch tighten the belt up, and ya back up. I
think you could get enough "Bite" to turn the shaft and back up. No tire
smoke, but enough oomph to do what you hafta in reverse, like park.This sure
would simplify your Hy Power wiring as you would be set up to go forward,
all the time. Small starters seem to be common, smaller and lighter than the
old Ford starters that had that nice long shaft for making Go Karts and
Tablesaws.Thinking of a Honda size one, put a small pulley, Maybe a Cog
Belt, it wouldn't slip at the motor end and the "Teeth" would get a good
bite on the shaft. Seems I remember Zombie's shaft being a good size
diameter, 3-4"iinches Dia?Loose belt wouldn't be much drag, when yur going.
My two cogs worth.
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I understand what you mean now by contamination.
I had a leaky agm contaminate the bottom of a clamper and it made the
fet come on for hours while charging. The 12v battery was down to 6 or
7 volts. It made the whole string's voltage lower. With the charger at
EQ voltage (380v) all of the clampers turned on in that string. It was
toasty in there. My boards are bare, without silk screen. I should
coat them.
Anyway, I like your Mk1 design. The blinking of the led and fet makes
for nice feedback and regulation.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The old Mk1s were solid but they could melt things.
>
> The Mk2 did there job, but had limits and had contamination issues.
>
> The Mk2B have it all but are contamination prone. They are analog
and have
> to be tuned so Conformal coating could mess up a setpot... so I have not
> conformal coated them.
>
> The Mk3 Digi Regs, look like they could be solid and the only things
that
> need to be uncoated are the programming header and the RJ jacks.
> Mk3 Regs are in service as of this week on my Fiero.
> I expect to have Mk3s available for the public May 1.
>
> The Mk3 Reg is really the nifty Reg, You can read it and program it
from a
> laptop, and then watch the whole string work as you charge, and
discharge.
> For anyone who thinks Regs are not needed.... a couple of minutes
watching a
> stack of AGMs charge at 6 Kw...You can quickly see the batteries
step out of
> line, Then
> You can enable the whole string of Reg for Dissapation.. and Poof..
all the
> AMG's voltage lock into the voltage your Regs are set to. Then you
watch the
> Reg's heatsink temps climb.
> I will be testing the Reg feed back to the charge today, Since I
scan the
> Regs from my laptop, and then feed the control lines Back to Wayland's
> PFC50X charger.
> I have 9 Regs on line and about 50 Ft of RJ wound all over the
floor. 4800
> Baud is pretty fast and solid...for now. 9600 Got flakey with more
than 16
> regs on the Buss.
> I need to spend some time taking pictures of this operation. It's really
> cool
>
> For somebody that has spent 10 year swearing at Regs and spending weeks
> dialing in Battery pack the hard way...These are a Dream come true.
> The cool LEDs that wink when addressed are neat in a Dark room.
>
> You can only get Mk2B and Mk3. The others I don't sell or support
anymore.
>
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:03 AM
> Subject: Re: PFC-20 and regulator woes
>
>
> > With complexity aside, which version of your regulator was the most
> > reliable in your opinion Rich?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman" <ev@> wrote:
> > >
> > > First it sounds like you have a bad regulator.
> > > That happens...a lot more often than I like.
> > >
> > > The charger... not making power. that's a bad thing.
> > > The Bussing sounds like you have a blown transitor in the power
stage.
> > >
> > > Ship it back I will get it back on line. Since we are
relativeley close,
> > > This should be a quick fix.
> > >
> > > I will replace the Reg and retest everything.
> > >
> > > Rich Rudman
> > > Manzanita Micro
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Doug Weathers" <dougw@>
> > > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@>
> > > Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 4:28 PM
> > > Subject: PFC-20 and regulator woes
> > >
> > >
> > > > I think I may have a problem with a Mk2b regulator and my PFC-20
> > > > charger.
> > > >
> > > > One of my regulators, when connected to the REGBUS, caused the
charger
> > > > to immediately stop charging. I believe the blue light would
come on
> > > > solid, but I can't verify it any more - see below. It's not the
> > REGBUS
> > > > cables - I've tried it in different places with different cables.
> > > >
> > > > If the suspected bad regulator was not on the REGBUS then charging
> > > > seemed to be taking place. The voltage would rise, and the
regulators
> > > > would flash green, and the amber light on the charger would flash
> > along
> > > > with them making a clicking sound every time a regulator
kicked in.
> > > > Eventually the timer light would be solid blue and the
batteries would
> > > > be gently fizzing.
> > > >
> > > > While troubleshooting, I did something that caused the PFC-20 to
> > emit a
> > > > quiet buzzing sound and a bad smell. Now it doesn't appear to be
> > > > charging.
> > > >
> > > > I believe the thing I did just before the smell was to unplug the
> > > > REGBUS cable from the bad regulator, which was on the far end
of the
> > > > daisy chain from the charger at the time.
> > > >
> > > > Now when I turn on the charger, the green POWER LED comes on,
and the
> > > > red WARN LED blinks twice and goes out. The LIMITS and TIMER LEDs
> > stay
> > > > off. If the amps knob is turned all the way down it doesn't
buzz, but
> > > > as you turn up the amps the buzzing noise gets louder. It's never
> > very
> > > > loud, though.
> > > >
> > > > Any suggestions?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Doug
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Doug Weathers
> > > > Bend, OR, USA
> > > > <http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
For anyone getting ready to make cables who doesn't have access to
tools, I have the tool rental page up now:
http://www.evsource.com/tls_cabling_tools.php
Let me know if there are any suggestions to make it better. Several of
these tools can be purchased elsewhere for a few dollars cheaper, but
since the service is there mostly to have the items returned, it
shouldn't be that big of a deal (hopefully).
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, and WarP Motors
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know for sure if arcing (brushes or contacts) is reduced or
eliminated within a vacuum or an inert gas atmosphere?
David C. Wilker Jr.
"Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
The recent batch of auto company built EVs were an exception, because
they were rank novices at EV design and tended not to pay any attention
to what existing EVs were already doing (it's called NIH or Not Invented
Here syndrome). They used high voltages (around 300v), and so were more
complicated, expensive, required far more stringen safety precautions,
and had many battery balancing problems.
This of course is oversimplifying things Lee :-) Reading this statement
seem like people built high voltage EVs for no purpose, I mean no
advantages, just because they are ignorant to know anything better.
Hope this is not the case. I dare to think EV1 designers were (and are)
smart enough to have valid reasons, whether these reasons are relevant
to a back yard hobbyists or not.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Evan,
I'm interested, do you knwow the date when they changed the program ?
My OEM diagnostic tool is last 2001 date code and still way to much AH(1100)
before lighting this idiot watering light.
David:
At end of servicing charge(long overcharge) there is no KOH possible
overflow, only water ! this until discharge which mix them again, so the KOH
spilling would be only at next end of charge (if you had refilled before
servicing charge which is to avoid !)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: STM5-100
> On 3/30/06, David Roden (Akron OH USA) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 29 Mar 2006 at 20:25, Philippe Borges wrote:
> >
> > > I'm only guessing here, but what about watering more often?
> >
> > I agree.
>
> So does PSA - they changed the program on later vehicles to switch on
> the watering light at a lower counter value. From what I can tell,
> this improved reliability.
>
> > BTW, it's a good idea to catch the overflow from the automatic watering
> > system in a glass jar, and pour it into your filling tank, as I'm told
that it may
> > contain a bit of KOH.
>
> Hmm. I had wondered about that, but I tend to throw it away on the
> assumption that it will contain dust and dirt from the loose end of
> the filling/vent tube. Perhaps a removable breather cap would be the
> way around that.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
POR15 paint works wonders both neutralizing rust and preventing it. Used by
auto restorers everywhere!
Pedroman
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ralph Merwin
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 10:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: rust removal
Mike,
I'd say "pretty good", although I don't have any good long-term tests since
most of the pieces I used it on are on vehicles I no longer own. I have used
it on my car where I had to cut into the sheet metal, and haven't noticed
any rust in these places (but there wasn't any to begin with).
Ralph
mike golub writes:
>
> How successful is this product ?
>
> Thanks
>
> --- Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > I use a spray-on rust neutralizer made under the
> > Naval Jelly brand.
> > There are other similar products, which supposedly
> > turn the rust into
> > something benign and prime the metal for painting.
> >
> > You have to remove as much of the rust as possible
> > with a wire brush
> > or sandpaper. Then you spray on the neutralizer and
> > let it sit for
> > 24 hours. The rust turns black and the part is
> > ready to be painted.
> >
> > Ralph
> >
> >
> > mike golub writes:
> > >
> > > I'm using some angle iron to build battery boxes,
> > etc.
> > >
> > > I guess could soak the parts in HCL, but I just
> > heard
> > > of a better solution, but I don't know all the
> > > details.
> > >
> > > They said I could take a solution of water and
> > Soda
> > > Ash (CaCO3) and then insert the piece of steel in
> > the
> > > water, and then take 12 volt dc power supply and
> > put
> > > one lead on the metal, and the other into the
> > water.
> > >
> > > Not sure which lead goes where + or -?
> > >
> > > Also not sure of the concentration, or amps
> > required.
> > >
> > > any suggestions would be great.
> > >
> > > thanks in advance!
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Naval jelly is used on outdoor metal (fence, architectural, car bodies,
and especially boats) all the time. It converts rust into iron
phosphate, which is a fairly hard, corrosion resistant coating which
acts as a great primer. After 15 min you wash the naval jelly paste off
to keep it from eating into the metal. Very economical for large
areas. If you're going to add a "quality" finish on it I'd suggest
going with the coating mfg's suggestions which may mean starting from
bare metal, not iron phosphate. For example I've never heard of using
it before powder coating.
Now keep in mind electrolytic metal cleaning doesn't convert rust back
to steel, it just dissolves it. I'd expect just going after it with a
metal brush would be much easier than this.
Danny
mike golub wrote:
How successful is this product ?
Thanks
--- Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mike,
I use a spray-on rust neutralizer made under the
Naval Jelly brand.
There are other similar products, which supposedly
turn the rust into
something benign and prime the metal for painting.
You have to remove as much of the rust as possible
with a wire brush
or sandpaper. Then you spray on the neutralizer and
let it sit for
24 hours. The rust turns black and the part is
ready to be painted.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well said Lee.
I think this was a quote from Mark Twain:
Example isn't the best way to influence others.
It's the "only way"!
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 3:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hydrogen: The Emperor Is Naked
Cor van de Water wrote:
> ...continued support for Hydrogen could be explained as an attempt to
> avoid confrontation with uncomfortable truths (that alternative
> energies like Hydrogen are not a solution today).
>
> How long will it take for them to realize that there are EVs which are
> efficient and cost-competitive and available today?
> Helloooo - somebody listening?
>
> I will continue to make my statement - by simply driving to work every
> day.
I like Steve Clunn's image. Imagine you're in a bus racing across the
countryside, packed with people. It's dark and very foggy, and you can
barely see ahead. But the driver is an expert, and he knows the road, and is
on a tight schedule, so he barrels along at full speed. You're not worried.
But then you begin to think. Didn't I hear something in the news, just
before we left, about the bridge being out on this road? Since no one else
seems to be worried, you ignore it, too. Maybe it was some other bridge.
Maybe the driver will take a detour.
Time passes. The bus doesn't turn, and doesn't slow down. Maybe, if you're
brave, you get up and tell the driver what you heard on the radio. But he's
confident, even arrogant; he won't listen. "I know what I'm doing. You're
wrong. That bridge couldn't have fallen down, or my dispatcher would have
told me."
You try to forget it, but more you think, the more you are sure that the
news report said the bridge was out. But still, you might be mistaken, or
the news report might have been wrong. What do you do?
Do you make a big fuss? Holler and yell, try to get the other passengers
alarmed, threaten that the bus stop "or else"? More than likely, that would
get you in trouble. You'd be branded as a nut, maybe prosecuted as a
terrorist. If you do nothing, and the bridge *is* out, you might be killed.
Or, the bus may detour due to some route change you didn't know about, and
you'd still get arrested for causing a commotion.
Experience has shown that alarmists in our society are largely ignored,
marginalized, or even persecuted. You can't make people change their minds.
Most people prefer to believe "authorities", even in the face of evidence to
the contrary. They will sit and do nothing, trusting in the authorities,
right to the bitter end when the "crash" is imminent and only a fool would
deny it.
When I first started driving my EVs, I tried to be an EVangelist and
convince others. It was hopeless. I just got ignored, ridiculed, and branded
at a nutcase. I gave up.
So my solution is to say, "Excuse me driver, but I heard the bridge is out.
I'm getting off the bus, right here, right now. The rest of you can do as
you please, but I'm going my own way, thank you." Maybe a few others will
think, "He doesn't seem like a nut; maybe he's onto something. I think I'll
get off, too."
I drive my EVs. But I don't proselytize, or fight for legislation to force
people to change; I seek to convince them by setting an example.
If they see me, every day, going back and forth to work, to school, to the
store; year in and year out; maybe a few will change their minds.
And, I teach kids. Their minds are not as closed as adults. They can change;
they'll be the ones who will "get off the bus" in time.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At the present, the primary source for hydrogen is natural gas; a
product drilled for and exploited by, you guessed it, the petroleum
industry. Hydrogen, at this point in time, is little more than an
extension of the petroleum industry,
Wayne W.
At 04:09 PM 3/30/2006, you wrote:
The general public doesn't realise that you need to put any energy in, to
get energy out of water. A few times I have run into this.
Me: What do you thing we'll do when the oil runs out? Where will we get our
energy?
General Public: Hydrogen.
Me: Yes, how will you make the hydrogen?
General Public: From water.
Me: Did you know that you have to put more energy in to making hydrogen than
you get back when you use it?
General Public: Really? Are you sure? (skeptical)
There's my version of the hydrogen myth.
-Mike
On 3/30/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Makes you wonder how the general public sees us getting the hydrogen out
> of the
> water -
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For the time being I've settled on installing a single series string of group
31 or group 27 (or larger if possible) AGMs.
For these sizes, which if any battery brands have a history of good results
amongst EVers? As far as where to buy, who has a record of good customer
service with the EV community?
A few that have been ruled out so far (but could be reconsidered):
-Hawkers (Enersys?) too expensive if well over $200/battery.
-Optima YT: also may be too expensive, recent quality concerns? Doesn't have
brick shape, so may not be great choice for installation on its side.
-Concorde: "master distributor" wanted $229+ per battery, no thanks.
Mark
---------------------------------
Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo!
Messenger with Voice.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Corand Pascal;
Thanks for the geography lesson. We USA types usually woefully lacking in
"Where IS" someplace far away. Most of us couldn't even FIND Netherlands or
Switzerland on a map, as it is.That damn you mention, at Oostershelde, got a
great "writeup"on our History Channel, the construction, well ALL of
Netherlands, as it, the country seems to be below sea level! We need your
engineers to fix up New Orleons, it would never flood again, but we are too
cheap, in US , to hire the right guyz!Spending our wealth, what's LEFT of it
on a Petro War. Sigh!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pascal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 3:06 PM
Subject: RE: my (theoretical) setup, comments
> Hi Cor,
>
> I couldn't have said it better myself, it is nice to
> see that someone in the US knows where The Netherlands
> and Zeeuws-Vlaanderen are on the map. Oh I forgot,
> your Dutch also :)
> That helps!
> thx for explaining in better words than I have done.
>
> Pascal
>
> --- Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> > Zeeuws-Vlaanderen is a part of Zeeland, which is a
> > province in the
> > far south-west part of The Netherlands.
> > Looking at a map it seems as if the Dutch have
> > stolen a slice of land from
> > Belgium, just across the Schelde river's connection
> > to the sea, called
> > Westerschelde.
> > (The Oosterschelde has the famous movable dam along
> > the sea coast)
> > Well if they" Stole" it they worked damn, pun intended,hard to bail it
out!
> http://www.vvvzeeuwsvlaanderen.nl/index.php?url=/plattegronden/&zoek=1
> >
> > Switzerland is another country in Europe, very
> > mountainous and beautiful.
> > It is neighboured by Germany, France, Italy and
> > Austria.
> >
Have lottsa RR vids of Switzerland, their famous Crocodile
locomotives, side rod drive electrics, that waddle like a croc, in flite!
ALL the RR's are electric there, by hydropower.Wierd low hz AC power,like
16hz?And the most powerful single unit electric loco on thre Planet.With
their mountains they NEED it.The Swiss RR's are modern marvels of
enginering!
> > Holland is another name for The Netherlands, though
> > officially only
> > two provinces of The Netherlands are what used to be
> > Holland in
> > previous centuries: Zuid-Holland and Noord-Holland.
> > Yeah, WE USA folks still think of it as"Holland" I think of it as ideal
Electric car country, flat as Florida, not much hydro power, but close
enough to Switzerland to run a few extension cords? Like Lost Wages is to
say, Sandy Eggo?
> > Most "unlimited" Autobahns have two or three lanes
> > each direction and
> > you better look in your mirror before changing
> > lanes.
> > No Kidding<g>! Same here! I have been doing 65, legal, ha ha , limit
and been passed like I was parked! A couple of miles later I see this guy
pulled over, by TWO cop cars! Oh that made my day!!My Week<g>! This guy
wasn't driving he was flying low! They checked his pirate's licence! WHERE
were the cops, when a yahoo passed me in front of a school in a SCHOOL zone
and a blind curve? 'Cuse me I was only 5 over the 25mph zone!Usually NEVER
one around when ya need him!
> > I did literally come aboard: two and a half years
> > ago I moved from
> > The Netherlands to Silicon Valley, cruizin' the
> > Santa Clara county roads
> > (paraphrasing Bruce's old sig here)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
Well, Cor, it's a pleasure having ya aboard! My personal Welcome,
Howdy neighbor! From me out east. Probably seeya at at an EVent in Or or CA?
Or if ya ever get east, give me a shout!
Bob
--- End Message ---
