EV Digest 5523
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Hubmotor anatomy
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Windstar EV Conversion
by "Dave Roekle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Hubmotor anatomy
by "Arthur W. Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Windstar EV Conversion
by "Dave Roekle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Self inflicted Darwin award or Plasmaboy mini-me
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV Copyright Infringer strikes again
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: movie car opportunity European convertable needed.
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Windstar EV Conversion
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Things I'd like to buy from EV suppliers
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: range extension
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: For Sale: New MES EV Fluid Water Heater
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Lee's regs in action
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Vacuum pumps
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Lee's regs in action
by Tim Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: For Sale: New MES EV Fluid Water Heater
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Lee's regs in action
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Lee's regs in action
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Lee's regs in action
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: AC vs. DC & Direct Drive
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Windstar EV Conversion
by "Dave Roekle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Hi voltage DC-DC problem
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Solectria S-10 Anti-Lock Brakes
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) NEDRA Power of DC Coming Up Sunday June 4
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 24 May 2006 13:48:14 +0000, "Mark Fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>I've seen high-power PM motors (such as in the fuel-cell electric aircraft
>from Embry-Riddle) and they typically have a similar "stepping motor" feel
>as they are turned by hand. The odd thing is that the sister motor turns
>smoothly. I don't really want to crack the case of the quiet one just to
>diagnose the noisy one. Power of each seems similar, and current draw is
>similar.
>
>Any other ideas? Who would have more insight on this?
>
>Should the rotor field poles have a magnetic field when not powered up? If
>not, should I de-gauss the rotor? If so, how?
The rotor may or may not have residual field, depending on the field
magnet strength and the exact condition under which power was
interrupted. No big deal.
Severe cogging in a brushed motor like that usually means a shorted
turn in the rotor/armature OR shorted comm bars. Growling the
armature would tell the tale. Given the poor quality of the comms
I've seen on the few brushed hub motors I've seen, I'd be looking at
the commutator first.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don--
Thanks for your comments, but the van is NOT a WC accessable van. This van
is easy for my wife to get in and out of, but the WC just stores in the
back. She also has an electric WC and I have built a ramp so we can drive
it in the back of the van. The only reason I was thinking about converting
this van is #1, it's paid for, #2 it's comfortable, #3 My wife can get in
and out easily, #4 I don't want to have to go out and purchase another van
and then pay for the EV conversion on top of that. I can spend the money I
save by not having to purchase another vehicle and put some better EV
equipment into it so it will last me a while.
Thanks,
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:50 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Windstar EV Conversion
> I currently own this vehicle and it is paid for, plus my wife is
handicapped
> and in a wheelchair so the van is necessary for her to travel and
get in and
> out of easily. We have looked at smaller cars, but she is unable to
get in
> and out easily, plus have room for her wheelchair. We live in Southern
> California and go to Disneyland a lot which is about 25 miles from
home. So
> it would be nice to have the range of 50 miles, if possible.
>
Unless you will never need this ICE version of a WC-accessible van,
you might want to keep it as-is and keep a lookout on the evtrader and
eBay for used EV vans - might be easier to convert one of those to
WC-capable than the EV conversion itself.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the wires are touching, then the motor will be harder to turn. Just
something simple to consider.
- Arthur
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee--
Thanks for your comments.
The curb weight is 3800 lbs. (I put GVW by mistake in my original posting).
The Gross Vehicle Weight is 5140 lbs.
My calculations of removing 1000 - 1200 lbs. is based on the following
estimates:
Gas Tank - 20 gal. fuel (full for curb weight) - Removed - 190 lbs.
Engine/Transaxle - Removed -- 650 lbs
Exhaust System, Catalytic converter, hardware, etc - Removed - 70
lbs.
Engine components, fuel lines, A/C, P/S, Radiator, etc. - Removed
120 lbs
Miscellaneous Removal Items - 50 lbs.
Total Removed Items -- 1080 lbs. (this would bring the curb weight
down to 2720 lbs.
24 batteries @ 70 lbs each - Added - 1680 lbs
Battery Racks - Added - 150 lbs
Motor, Controller, Charger, wiring, P/S, P/B, A/C, Misc. 450 lbs.
Total Added Items -- 2280 lbs.
That would bring the curb weight back up to 5000 lbs. + 2/3 passengers - 550
lbs for a total Gross Vehicle Weight of 5550 lbs. which is about 410 lbs
over the stock GVW. I would also add heavier springs and shocks to
compensate for the additional weight.
I said 0-60 in 8 seconds, but I can live with 10-12 seconds. I just didn't
want to bring traffic to a halt when entering a busy, Southern California
freeway or get run over by passing traffic.
I appreciate your (or anyone else's) comments and suggestions.
Thanks,
Dave Roekle
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Windstar EV Conversion
Dave Roekle wrote:
> Here is what I am thinking about as a conversion and my requirements:
> Vehicle: 1995 Ford Windstar Van - 3.8 Liter V-6 Engine
> GVW: 3800 lbs.
Do you know the curb weight? GVWR - curbweight will tell you its
carrying capacity. I'd guess it will weigh around 3000 lbs, so you can
add about 800 lbs before going over the GVWR.
> Driving Habits: 4-6 short trips daily (5-7 miles each) all on
flat,
> surface streets 35-45 mph.
> Freeway: Occasional trip - 10-12 miles
> Top Speed Needed: 70 - 75 MPH
> Acceleration: 0 - 60 - 8-9 seconds
> Range: 35-40 Miles
These are all feasible. The high top speed in a high wind resistance
van, and the rather rapid accelleration will require a large motor,
controller, and batteries that can deliver high peak power. This will be
an expensive conversion.
> P/S: Electric
> P/B: Electric
> A/C: Electric ( a must due to medical condition)
> Heater: Electric
Reasonable.
> Batteries: Room under rear passenger compartment for 24-30+
> 12 volt batteries.
Assuming 1000 lbs of batteries, this is 33-41 lbs per battery (pretty
small). 24-30 12v batteries is also a 288-360vdc system. This is
workable for an AC system; but most of the AC systems you can actually
get won't give you that 0-60 mph in 8-9 seconds.
In other words, you can do it; but it leads to expensive batteries,
motor, and controller; and won't meet your accelleration criteria.
You may want to use a smaller number of bigger batteries. For instance,
19 Hawker 70ah 12v batteries weigh 988 lbs, and give you a 228vdc
system. This could be used with a Zilla 1000a controller and 9" motor.
This should be capable of meeting your specs if built and driven
carefully.
> I am thinking that the removal of the ICE, transmission, gas tank, exhaust
> system, fuel lines, smog equipment, radiator and all other non-EV related
> items would drop about 1000 - 1200 lbs off the vehicle.
I think it would be more like half of this at the very most (500-600
lbs). And you will put 200-300 lbs back in in the form of the electric
motor, controller, battery racks, electric P/S, P/B, A/C etc.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sometimes I wonder. I just did something really, really stupid that
didn't seem so at the time, I mention this only because others may find
themselfs roadside with a set of jumbercables (If there are misspellings
and bad punctuation, it is besause i am seeing spots right now. )
I needed to get the EV off the side of the road, 4 cops had visited it
already (and none would help me push it the 1 block home)
So I took out the aux battery and set it in the seat and minding my
polarity hooked up the cables for a slow creap home.
So far so good, confident and cocky, I decided for the next section of
road where no-one could pass I would hook up to 2 batteries in the pack
for 24 volts.
Bang! poof,poof blow out the flames on the heat shrink. I though I was
isolated, but forgot about the negatives path and shorted the bottom 17
orbitals. (tail between legs, hand print on forehead)
Could have been worse, could of shorted thru motor and ran over my feet
and wrecked car
Could of opened a battery and had a real good bonfire.
Could of ..... Don't need to tell you.
Lets be careful out there
sincerily fire marshall bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 24 May 2006 18:22:58 -0400, Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Well, the same guy who stole my "Build an EV" plans from the EVA/DC
>website has struck again.
>
>This time he is selling Jr Solar Sprint Plans and is using a
>different user name, "Wonderful_Plans", which he has been using off
>and on for about a year I've been told. After he gets nabbed he uses
>a different user name. I checked out his recent listing on Ebay and
>the layout and text is exactly the same as the one for my ripped off
>plans except he just put "How To Build A Solar Electric Model Car" in
>place of "How to Build A Electric Car".
As someone who's had is writings republished everywhere from the web
to college textbooks, I have to ask again, why do you care? Other
than to make yourself feel important.
You're not selling plans so there's no money involved. You put the
material on the net for free and (shithouse lawyers pointificating to
the contrary) effectively put it in the public domain.
Is this guy even actually selling any plans? Has anyone bid? Even if
they are, this guy isn't making a thing at the price I've seen quoted
here (I lack the interest to actually go look.)
My attitude is that if someone wants to print out something I wrote
and gave away, package it up and try to sell it to someone, more power
to him. I've sold construction plans before and quickly learned that
for what people will pay, it just ain't worth the labor and bother.
It annoys me (from 0-10 on the vexation scale, perhaps a 0.5 to 1.0)
for someone to remove my name and not give me credit but again, it's
not worth the elevated blood pressure or even the energy needed to get
mad about it.
There is an old saying that those with the least authority wield it
the most vigorously (exhibit 1: school crossing guards). John's
Corollary is that the fewer pieces one has published, the more
zealously one tends to enforce his "rights".
When you've finally put your one great masterpiece on the net and
someone does something with it without your permission, your
enragement is unlimited. When you've published thousands of articles,
the reaction tends to be more along the lines of "more power to 'em."
Regarding "you" in the above paragraph, I have no idea how well the
shoe fits so if it doesn't, consider it a generic "you".
Just step back for a moment and look at yourself. You've gotten
yourself all cranked up twice now about this guy. You've sent mail to
ebay and you've apparently discussed this with others elsewhere. Plus
several posts to this list. Is your time worth anything? Your
leisure? Your Inner peace?
In the modern vernacular, "just chill, man".
John
PS: if you really must do something, the most effect for the least
effort would be to email the "winner" telling him how he'd been ripped
off. Let the buyer get pissed, leave bad feedback, scream at
sleazebay, etc. If you must.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I suggested to them they acquire a vehicle and send it over to here
for conversion: http://leftcoastconversions.com/
I'm sure a deal could be worked out...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Converting a Windstar or any other front-wheel drive minivan is a
daunting challenge. Top side access to the engine compartment is
limited. Major engine work including removal and installation
must be done from underneath with the van on a hoist. Don't even
think about doing a conversion without access to a hoist.
I doubt that the batteries can be placed under the passenger
compartment floor and have still have usable ground clearance
under the batteries.
I wouldn't consider doing a Windstar conversion unless I could
see a successfully converted Windstar and consult with the
converter. I've never heard of a Windstar conversion but maybe
someone has.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Roekle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:06 AM
Subject: Windstar EV Conversion
Here is what I am thinking about as a conversion and my requirements:
Vehicle: 1995 Ford Windstar Van - 3.8 Liter V-6 Engine
GVW: 3800 lbs.
Coefficient of Drag: .35
Condition: Excellent
Driving Habits: 4-6 short trips daily (5-7 miles each) all on flat,
surface streets 35-45 mph.
Freeway: Occasional trip - 10-12 miles
Top Speed Needed: 70 - 75 MPH
Acceleration: 0 - 60 - 8-9 seconds
Range: 35-40 Miles
P/S: Electric
P/B: Electric
A/C: Electric ( a must due to medical condition)
Heater: Electric
Batteries: Room under rear passenger compartment for 24-30+ 12 volt
batteries.
I currently own this vehicle and it is paid for, plus my wife is
handicapped
and in a wheelchair so the van is necessary for her to travel and get in
and
out of easily. We have looked at smaller cars, but she is unable to get
in
and out easily, plus have room for her wheelchair. We live in Southern
California and go to Disneyland a lot which is about 25 miles from home.
So
it would be nice to have the range of 50 miles, if possible.
I am thinking that the removal of the ICE, transmission, gas tank, exhaust
system, fuel lines, smog equipment, radiator and all other non-EV related
items would drop about 1000 - 1200 lbs off the vehicle. Then with the
addition of all the batteries and EV equipment, I figured I would have a
vehicle with a curb weight of approximately 4800 - 5000 lbs not including
passengers, usually 1 or 2 unless we have our two small grandchildren with
us.
I am looking for suggestions on motor(s), batteries, controller, accessory
motor, installation, etc. I am seriously considering doing this project
in
the next 2-3 months, so I need to start planning now for what resources I
will need. I am somewhat mechanically inclined and can do some of the
work
myself, but I may prefer to send the vehicle to a shop (if cost effective)
and have it done to my specifications.
Thanks,
Dave Roekle
951-278-2370
951-278-2886 Fax
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Roland:
Well, an EV is not a standard auto. And like I wrote in my posting, I am
not a hardware tinkerer. I don't want to solder my DC-Dc converter myself,
and I don't want to built an aluminum frame. I am looking for 'ready to
go' solutions that might require some support construction I can outsource
to the local tractor repair, but not a puzzle from dozen of different
stores.
But I appreciate your ideas. Though I neither have the knowledge, the
tools nor the time to create or built them.
Michaela
> Hello Michaela,
>
> I find it is best to stay with standard auto parts and components, that
> you
> can purchase from any auto parts store. If you have to replace any one of
> these components, than you can replace it from any one of the auto parts
> store.
>
> I used a large aluminum frame that duplicates the front of a engine of
> your
> choice, that is use to mount all the accessories. It is then run by a
> V-belt or serpentine belt system that is either run by the main motor
> pilot
> shaft and/or by a separated DC motor.
>
> In during my last conversion, I used all the accessories off the engine I
> remove from a engine plus a GMC diesel vacuum pump and a large Delco
> inverter-alternator that can run the 12 volt systems and supply up to 120
> VAC 60hz 7KW at the same time.
>
> I used one 5 hp 90/180 DC Permanent Magnet drive motor made by Baldor Co.
> which you can purchase from any local motor repair shop. It is a flange
> type, that would be install in the same position that damper wheel and
> drive
> pulley would be install to the engine crank if you are not going to use
> the
> main motor as a drive.
>
> If you want to use the main motor as a drive for a mechanical REGEN and
> also
> the another drive motor power by the main battery pack, then I install
> this
> motor in a different position so I can choose between either drive system.
>
> I made this drive position inline with the main motor pilot shaft, which
> is
> connected with a Dodge Power Transmission Dana Flex coupler and a Dodge
> Power Transmission electric clutch than can be operated from 12 to 180
> volts DC.
>
> Can either run the accessory drive by the motor during coast down on long
> icy hills which acts like a mechanical REGEN or drives the accessories by
> the 5 hp 180 volt motor off the main battery pack when I do not need to
> slow
> the EV.
>
> Dodge or Browning power trains devices are sold by places that sells
> bearings, pulleys, gears, belts and etc.
>
> You can get V-Belt or Serpentine Conversion Kits, electric water pumps,
> pulleys, vacuum units, from jegs.com
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:14 PM
> Subject: Things I'd like to buy from EV suppliers
>
>
>>
>> After being an EVer for little more then a year (and I am very happy
>> with
>> my lead sleds I might add) I would like to offer some suggestions to the
>> EV suppliers as most compete with pretty much the same products (Not you
>> Victor, I know ;). Now - I want to add the fact that I am not the kind
>> of
>> person that re-winds generators or enjoys hardcore construction. I know
>> my
>> way around Evs by now, but leave metal working to people that know how.
>>
>> I would like to see/buy some pre-configured a/c compressors or complete
>> systems (i.e. like an aftermarket vintage air system, modified for ev
>> use)
>> that only need to be installed and hooked up to the system voltage.
>>
>> I would like to see/buy a regen system that would come with a small
>> generator or modified alternator and all the supplies I would need to
>> hook
>> up to the auxiliary shaft of my motor.
>>
>> I would like to see/buy a range extending generator directly generating
>> the dc juice in a way that I would only have to hook it up to my
>> batteries.
>>
>> I would like to see/buy a (configurable) converter that would allow me
>> to
>> use my dash board instruments i.e. for state of charge.
>>
>> There might of course be some company offering those products that I am
>> not aware off, so please excuse my lack of knowledge. Please don't point
>> me to a/c propulsion. I am not talking about some fancy super system but
>> stuff one can really buy, use and afford.
>>
>> Just a few ideas.
>>
>> Michaela
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cool! Thanks for the link. I knew I'd seen it somewhere before but couldn't
remember. Here's kind of what I've been thinking. Right now my Saturn has 12
volt flooded batteries in it. It performs fairly well, but the volts sag hard
under heavy acceleration. With only a year on the pack I'd be kind of scared to
try and do a 20 mile drive. I have an occasional heavy foot so I'm itching for
AGM's, I've already got everything I need to go higher voltage and performance
(Zilla 1K, PFC30 etc). So I could have my short range high performance setup,
I've been drueling over the new Group31 size Odyssey batteries, which at 100ah
would still give decent range and they wouldn't hesitate a bit to dish out 1000
amps (can we say blow my transmission up?). Then if I needed to go farther I
could just hook up the trailer of flooded golf cart batteries and go on my way.
My commute is 26 miles one way to school so I'm not using the EV for this,
although there is charging available in the area. One is about a mile away at
an APS solar power plant. This would actually probably work really well because
I could integrate a bike carrier on the trailer rather than trying to stuff it
in the car with me, because that mile seems like a long walk when your running
late. At this site there is plenty of room, there's really no marked out area
either, it just says "Electric Vehicle Parking Only". The only caveate here is
they close their gates at 5PM. I do have another place that has given me
permission to piggy back a normal outlet on the circuit their Magnechargers are
on. It's at a restaurant very close to campus, blocks away, that the owner had
an EV1 so he's been pretty receptive to his EV parking being used. The only
issue here is I'd try to eat there at least once a week. The only problem here
is I don't have as much room. They are regular
length parking spaces, but are extra wide so I could park it sideways some. I
think I could make it work.
Unfortunately the school itself has not been at all helpful with EV
charging, and they're trippling their parking pass prices this comming semester
so if I could avoid parking on Campus I'd feel better.
How nice it is going to be to have a whole summer to play make my EV better.
But first comes the paint job.
David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 23 May 2006 at 21:19, Ricky Suiter wrote:
> Why not a range extending battery
> trailer? I know someone has had to have tried this before ...
Sure. Olaf Bleck and Team New England entered a Solectria Force with a
battery trailer in the TdS for at least 2 years - 2001 and 2002, IIRC. At
least one of those years they won the range prize, with something like 156
miles.
The photo links seem to have vanished from the NESEA website, but here's
Michael Bianci's text description :
http://www.autoauditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2002/#Report46
A battery trailer is an excellent way to supplement your EV's onboard energy
for those occasions when you need extra range. It allows you to size the
main battery for your average daily use rather than your highest daily
mileage, leading to higher efficiency and lower operating cost.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting. Does this one have the integrated 12 volt pump?
Chris
Don Cameron wrote:
I have a brand new 3kw 200-450V MES fluid water heater for sale - never been
used. I purchased it for my New Beetle project but due to the space
constraints I could not fit it in the car.
These are a great unit, because they are completely self contained, have
failure protection and best of all - you can use the existing heater core.
This pump retails for over $500. I am selling it for $300.
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/FluidHeater.jpg
Please send an email note to me directly.
thanks
Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I'm pretty much convinced that the Lee Hart battery regulator is a
good thing. While building the 50 for my pack, I built 4 more for my
solar shed. It's got a pair of 100ah AGMs and a pair of 80ah AGMs set up
for 24 volts at 180ah.
Before the regs the voltage on the 80ah batteries would be different by
.5 volts or more. As in 12.9 and 12.4 under load. Worse for the 100ah
batteries. So I put the regs on and let the solar system charge away.
For the first week you could see that the higher batts would have the
glow of regs. After about a month or so I checked voltages this evening:
The 80ah batteries under load are within .05 volts of each other. As in
12.85 and 12.90. The 100ah batteries are within .01 volts of each other.
Lee, the regs seem to work. I have thought about writing this up for
Home Power or something under the title of "Lee's amazing regs". People
should hear about this; a $1.00 regulator is kind of neat.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am now working on my Rabbit since the Electravan is going. I found what I
think is a Rabbit diesel vacuum pump. I then did a web search and found by
accident Ford Pumps for diesel. These are cheap at 50 bucks or so. Should
work great. LR......
http://www.newircusers.com/store/rk2041_33566_Rabbit_Vacuum_Pump.jsp
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
Vegetable Oil Car.
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would welcome a writeup! What about for all us 6v people - what diode
voltage?
I have Sonnenschein 180ah gel batteries - they are supposed to float charge at
2.3-2.4V per cell 6.9-7.2V total...
-----Original Message-----
>From: Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: May 24, 2006 7:46 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Lee's regs in action
>
>Well, I'm pretty much convinced that the Lee Hart battery regulator is a
>good thing. While building the 50 for my pack, I built 4 more for my
>solar shed. It's got a pair of 100ah AGMs and a pair of 80ah AGMs set up
>for 24 volts at 180ah.
>
>Before the regs the voltage on the 80ah batteries would be different by
>.5 volts or more. As in 12.9 and 12.4 under load. Worse for the 100ah
>batteries. So I put the regs on and let the solar system charge away.
>
>For the first week you could see that the higher batts would have the
>glow of regs. After about a month or so I checked voltages this evening:
>
>The 80ah batteries under load are within .05 volts of each other. As in
>12.85 and 12.90. The 100ah batteries are within .01 volts of each other.
>
>Lee, the regs seem to work. I have thought about writing this up for
>Home Power or something under the title of "Lee's amazing regs". People
>should hear about this; a $1.00 regulator is kind of neat.
>
>Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes it does, it is the RM4 unit. I notice that it lists for $675!
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: May 24, 2006 8:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: For Sale: New MES EV Fluid Water Heater
Interesting. Does this one have the integrated 12 volt pump?
Chris
Don Cameron wrote:
> I have a brand new 3kw 200-450V MES fluid water heater for sale -
> never been used. I purchased it for my New Beetle project but due to
> the space constraints I could not fit it in the car.
>
> These are a great unit, because they are completely self contained,
> have failure protection and best of all - you can use the existing heater
core.
>
> This pump retails for over $500. I am selling it for $300.
>
> http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/FluidHeater.jpg
>
>
> Please send an email note to me directly.
>
>
> thanks
> Don
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
> Well, I'm pretty much convinced that the Lee Hart battery regulator is a
> good thing... Before the regs the voltage on the 80ah batteries would be
> different by .5 volts or more. As in 12.9 and 12.4 under load. Worse for
> the 100ah batteries. So I put the regs on and let the solar system charge
> away... After about a month or so I checked voltages this evening:
> The 80ah batteries under load are within .05 volts of each other. As in
> 12.85 and 12.90. The 100ah batteries are within .01 volts of each other.
>
> Lee, the regs seem to work. I have thought about writing this up for
> Home Power or something under the title of "Lee's amazing regs". People
> should hear about this; a $1.00 regulator is kind of neat.
Be my guest! It became a "free" idea once I posted it on the EV list.
Now it can't be patented or otherwise restricted. Frankly, it's so
simple that a patent wouldn't be any good anyway.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim Wong wrote:
> I would welcome a writeup! What about for all us 6v people - what
> diode voltage?
I published the version for 6v batteries a year or so ago. Basically, I
suggested the same parts (two 6.2v zener diodes), but with *two* #PR2
lamps. Each lamp has a zener in series. This makes two parallel paths,
so it shunts twice the current -- 1 amp max instead of 0.5 amp max. This
is more appropriate for >100 amphour batteries.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris, this is great news do you have a web page with the details?
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: May 24, 2006 7:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Lee's regs in action
Well, I'm pretty much convinced that the Lee Hart battery regulator is a
good thing. While building the 50 for my pack, I built 4 more for my solar
shed. It's got a pair of 100ah AGMs and a pair of 80ah AGMs set up for 24
volts at 180ah.
Before the regs the voltage on the 80ah batteries would be different by
.5 volts or more. As in 12.9 and 12.4 under load. Worse for the 100ah
batteries. So I put the regs on and let the solar system charge away.
For the first week you could see that the higher batts would have the glow
of regs. After about a month or so I checked voltages this evening:
The 80ah batteries under load are within .05 volts of each other. As in
12.85 and 12.90. The 100ah batteries are within .01 volts of each other.
Lee, the regs seem to work. I have thought about writing this up for Home
Power or something under the title of "Lee's amazing regs". People should
hear about this; a $1.00 regulator is kind of neat.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Roger Stockton wrote:
While Blue Meanie is another great example of a DC EV that can offer a
shift-free driving experience, I think it is only fair to point out that
to compare it on equal footing to one of Victor's AC drive systems, the
Blue Meanie needs to have 2x the battery it presently does.
Why? The only reason Victor's AC system needs 26+ batteries, is that
with less, the voltage falls and so does most of the performance. It
only takes 13, 12V batteries to power up a lower voltage car with a DC
system while still having great performance. If you want to level the
playing field, go with 26 small AGMs, say 24 lb. Hawkers for Victor's
system. This is about the same weight and storage capacity (range) as
13, 45 lb. Optimas. The AC system that is most comparable to my 156V
system 'has' to have 26 or more batteries, even if they are smaller
ones, the battery pack cost soars. A pack of 13 Optimas is about $1500,
a pack of 13 Orbitals is about $1300, but a pack of small quality AGMs
like the 24 lb. Hawkers, is about $3200! One system can get by with an
affordable battery pack and still deliver stunning performance, the
other absolutely 'has' to have the much more expensive pack...without
the high voltage, the AC system doesn't compare.
It also isn't clear to me why John includes the cost of a BMS with
Victor's AC system but not with his DC system. Surely if Victor msut
bear the cost of a BMS for his pack of Optimas, then John must bear the
cost of one for his pack.
I have used the current set of 13 Optimas in Blue Meanie now for 6+
years without any BMS. You can do this with lower numbers of larger
batteries in lower voltage setups. However, when you get up to 20
batteries in a series string, and even higher like the 26 smaller
batteries needed for Victor's AC system, it's pretty much mandatory to
have a BMS or you'll be looking at a battery pack disaster. This concept
has been pretty well established over the years by others, not just me.
The Hughes Dolphin system that was in the AC powered Chevy S10 I had for
a time, was pretty much given away by the original owners because they
had to keep replacing expensive packs of 52 Hawkers! The batteries were
high quality, but the poor things had no BMS at all! Higher voltage
packs 'require' BMS, lower voltage packs do not.
The point I am trying to make here is that while there definitely is a
cost premium attached to the AC drive presently, it does not translate
into 2x the cost of a DC system (as John W's post suggests) in a fair
comparison.
Yes it does translate into 2X the cost. Again, the 156V system can use
13 larger batteries and get it's full performance...the AC system cannot
do this, it must have at least 26 batteries to get the voltage high
enough. The 156V pack then, if using Optimas at $120 each costs $1560,
while the 312V pack using 26, 24lb. Hawkers at, say $130 each, costs
$3380. The math comes out like this....Victor's system at $7506 plus
$3380 in batteries...I'll even leave off the BMS....is $10,886. The
lower voltage system's math looks like this....$1975 for the Z1k Zilla,
$1564 for the ADC 9 inch, $300 for a DC-DC, and $1560 for batteries of
similar range capacity and weight for $5399. Roger, what's 2X $5399?
Remember, at half the price, the 156V car if left in 3rd gear, will have
pretty much the same range, the same 0-60, and the same top
speed....using the tranny though, the 156V car will absolutely toast the
AC car from 0-60, and run away from it in top speed at 120+ mph!
Otmar tried to make this same point about the required high voltage
packs to run the AC systems at performance levels that are more on par
with lower voltage DC systems, in that when considering the price tag of
AC systems, you cannot ignore their required high battery count packs.
You also need to have BMS, while lower numbers of batteries can get away
without them.
I was originally taking exception to Victor's statement that you cannot
make a direct drive system with DC. That's simply not true. I used White
Zombie as an example because it is a daily driven DC car that works
extremely well in direct drive format, but then Victor took exception to
it because of it's 'racing nature'. The same drive train components
transferred over to a larger car would still make an excellent direct
drive setup that would still grossly outperform any AC system Victor
offers for a comparable price. I just don't buy the notion that only AC
can be used in a single speed vehicle.
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom-
Thanks for your comments. They are well taken.
The more I have thought about it, the more I think I will look for a small
S-10 or Ranger pick-up that I can convert.
Since I do all the driving and errand running, I can use the truck 95% of
the time. And because my wife is handicapped and in a wheelchair, I don't
want to take a chance getting stranded somewhere by an EV that goes wacky
for some reason or another. She has a very low tolerance level for things
that don't work or break at inappropriate times.
Thanks again for your insights and helping me "see the light"!
Dave Roekle
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom Shay
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:09 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Windstar EV Conversion
Converting a Windstar or any other front-wheel drive minivan is a
daunting challenge. Top side access to the engine compartment is
limited. Major engine work including removal and installation
must be done from underneath with the van on a hoist. Don't even
think about doing a conversion without access to a hoist.
I doubt that the batteries can be placed under the passenger
compartment floor and have still have usable ground clearance
under the batteries.
I wouldn't consider doing a Windstar conversion unless I could
see a successfully converted Windstar and consult with the
converter. I've never heard of a Windstar conversion but maybe
someone has.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Roekle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:06 AM
Subject: Windstar EV Conversion
> Here is what I am thinking about as a conversion and my requirements:
>
> Vehicle: 1995 Ford Windstar Van - 3.8 Liter V-6 Engine
> GVW: 3800 lbs.
> Coefficient of Drag: .35
> Condition: Excellent
> Driving Habits: 4-6 short trips daily (5-7 miles each) all on flat,
> surface streets 35-45 mph.
> Freeway: Occasional trip - 10-12 miles
> Top Speed Needed: 70 - 75 MPH
> Acceleration: 0 - 60 - 8-9 seconds
> Range: 35-40 Miles
> P/S: Electric
> P/B: Electric
> A/C: Electric ( a must due to medical condition)
> Heater: Electric
> Batteries: Room under rear passenger compartment for 24-30+ 12 volt
> batteries.
>
> I currently own this vehicle and it is paid for, plus my wife is
> handicapped
> and in a wheelchair so the van is necessary for her to travel and get in
> and
> out of easily. We have looked at smaller cars, but she is unable to get
> in
> and out easily, plus have room for her wheelchair. We live in Southern
> California and go to Disneyland a lot which is about 25 miles from home.
> So
> it would be nice to have the range of 50 miles, if possible.
>
> I am thinking that the removal of the ICE, transmission, gas tank, exhaust
> system, fuel lines, smog equipment, radiator and all other non-EV related
> items would drop about 1000 - 1200 lbs off the vehicle. Then with the
> addition of all the batteries and EV equipment, I figured I would have a
> vehicle with a curb weight of approximately 4800 - 5000 lbs not including
> passengers, usually 1 or 2 unless we have our two small grandchildren with
> us.
>
> I am looking for suggestions on motor(s), batteries, controller, accessory
> motor, installation, etc. I am seriously considering doing this project
> in
> the next 2-3 months, so I need to start planning now for what resources I
> will need. I am somewhat mechanically inclined and can do some of the
> work
> myself, but I may prefer to send the vehicle to a shop (if cost effective)
> and have it done to my specifications.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Roekle
> 951-278-2370
> 951-278-2886 Fax
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I need some advice and I know you guys have the answer (or answers.)
I want to run a high voltage
> pack, 360 volts. But I haven't seen a dc-dc that is rated for this
voltage. Is there a simple way
> to step down the voltage to a range that will allow me to use a
lower voltage dc-dc? Or is that
> just another dc-dc anyway?
>
> I already have a Zilla and a 9" ADC, so going AC is not an option.
>
>
300V Vicor dc/dc units take 200-400Vdc inputs and other EV-ers have
used them.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave,
Find a slippery location (example: metal cover on the road)
drive slow (!) and brake hard on it.
The result will be an indication if your anti-lock brakes work
(especially when you are making a slight turn while braking)
I presume that the brakes were either standard or optional
on the S10 you have, before the conversion.
So your mechanic should be able to assess and determine
the problem with the brakes apart from it being an EV.
Whether he wants to touch the car depends on the
(mis)information he has received and how you present it
to him.
Regards,
Cor.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Cc:
Subject: Solectria S-10 Anti-Lock Brakes
Sent: 5/24/2006 12:10 PM
Importance: Normal
Hi all
I recently noticed the previous owner of my E10 disconnected the forward
wiring clip/harness from my power brake pump assembly. I re-connected it
and found that the only thing it does is makes my ANTI-LOCK brake light come
on, on the dashboard.
Does anyone have any experience with this and what the problem might be? Is
there something wrong with my anti-lock brakes? should my vehicle even have
antilock brakes? is it an EV problem? or do you think my regular mechanic
could fix it?
Dave Banas
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We're getting fired up for the 6th Annual NEDRA Power of DC drag race
June 4 at Mason Dixon Dragway in Hagerstown, Maryland. Racing starts
at 12:00 noon and ends about 5:00
Racers so far include:
1) Bob Salem and Dave Erb with Bob's electric Rabbit Truck
2) Matt Graham's 240SX
3) Shawn Waggoner's Orange Crush and another bike
4) Darin Gilbert's Pirahna Motorcycle
5) Shawn Lawless will be bringing the Electropolitan and maybe
another racing vehicle.
6) West Virginia University with their Formula One electric racer
7) My electric Ford Escort
8) Charlie Garlow's electric S-10 truck
9) Chris Zak's electric Prizm
10) Joeseph Lado's Destiny 2000 electric Fiero
11) Bryan Murtha's electric Rav-4
12) Great Mills High School electric MR-2
13) Great Mill High School electric dragster
14) Central Shenendoah Valley Regional Governor's School electric 240-Z
15) Central Shenendoah Valley Regional Governor's School electric
Porsche
16) Valerie Myer's Corbin Sparrow
17) Aggravated Battery dragster is probable, but we are not sure.
18) Bob Rice's Rabbit EV will be there in spirit. But Bob will
definitly be there.
2006 Power of DC Sponsors:
Baltimore Clean Cities Campaign
Battery Warehouse
Cafe Electric
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
KTA Services
Hi-Torque Electric
Manzanita Micro
Maryland Energy Administration
Megawatt Motorworks
QuickCable
Suncoast Electric Vehicle Outfitters
Virginia Solar Council
For the race Jim Husted of Hi-Torque Electric built a beautiful motor
that will be raffled off among the registered racers.
We will have the EVA/DC Solar Slot Car Track set up for the kids.
Besides the out of town racers among those coming out to visit will
be Bob Rice, Mark Hanson, Peter Echoff (sp?) and Dave Stensland. If I
left anyone out just let me know.
Everyone is welcome to come out and race or check things out.
We'll do another last minute announcement shortly before the race.
See Ya June 4th!
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Power of DC
http://www.powerofdc.com
--- End Message ---
