EV Digest 5654
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: BMS poll
by "Chris Brune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: BMS poll
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Aero shaft drive idea.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Battery Charger Testing
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: AC output to rectifier
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Battery box design / heating & cooling floodies
by "Steven Potter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: AC output to rectifier
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Oddball flooded NiCD found
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) EV truck conversion and power steering
by "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Voltage Divider
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) NJ DMV saga - or WKTEC: the Lineup
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: EV truck conversion and power steering
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Fun at the Movies...Chris Paine meets White Zombie! (pt. 2)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV truck conversion and power steering
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EV truck conversion and power steering
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Small AC Drive systems
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Mitsu PU Conversion (was RE: Aero shaft drive idea.)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: NJ DMV saga
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: BMS poll
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV truck conversion and power steering
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Battery Charger Testing
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: BMS poll
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: AC output to rectifier
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Voltage Divider
by Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Local Boy does National Radio Call IN SHOW on EV's
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Voltage Divider
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David,
I'm using model 1212SR. I have 12 of them on board (in the trunk). They've
been in there for several years and no failures that I am aware of (I'm not
the original owner). There is a fan setup to blow air on them during
charging. They do get quite warm if you don't provide any cooling.
See the picture here: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/342
Regards,
Chris Brune
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: BMS poll
> Chris
>
> Are you using the Soneil's onboard or off?
>
> I am using ACI Superchargers (model 1214CC)(Soneils by a different name)
and
> they are dieing every couple of months.
>
> I have them mounted onboard the vehicle.
>
> I am wondering if contra to Soneil/ACI's ads that they cannot stand up to
> being mounted onboard.
>
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Chris Brune
> Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 11:55 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: BMS poll
>
>
> Hi,
> I'm using individual battery chargers on Orbitals.
> Chargers are Soneil 5A chargers.
>
> Regards,
> Chris Brune
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm using 16 Rudman Regs on Optiams.
Richard Furniss
is it suppose to smoke like that ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not necessarily in reverse.
Isn't there 2 ways to flip the housing on some differentials? imagine
rotating it in place with both tires rolling on the ground, left becomes
right ,visa-versa, and the rotation is backwards. Or glue the wheels in
place, pick up the pinion and swing it over the top until it points
back. There are things like shock mounts and spring perches and vents to
deal with at this point, but the rotation stays the same.
I think keeping the rotation the same is important for a few reasons.
Strength of the ring and pinion, effiency, and proper brake operation.
A third option I was thinking about for the 300zx, which has a
stationary rear end with independent suspension, was side by side warp
9's in the fuel tank area. A 2" thick vertical box mounted to a plate
sandwhiched under the diffy accepts 2 short drivelines from the warps
and has double roller chain to a sprocket on the pinion. The 5" hole
for the tanks gauge is big enough to drop the motor cables through so
the zilla stays out of the rain. Then I put a layer of batteries up
front and cover it with a false floor that holds the charger, dc-dc and
vacuum pump.
ps There are lots of 300zx's around here and I am not giving up on this
idea. I am changeing jobs, loosing my access to the machine shop, but my
3 car garage will be going through a transformation. Today I unloaded
from my mitsubishi PU a bridgeport (by myself with an engine hoist,
almost a Tim Taylor incedent) It needs reassembly and a few new parts.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 14, 2006, at 8:41 PM, David Sherritze wrote:
How do you test a 12 volt charger that only had a red and green light.
I can put a voltage meter to a battery and get a reference. How do I
test the output of a charger for both volts and amps?
Any ideas?
How about putting a 0.1 ohm precision resistor in one of the wires to
the battery? Mouser part number 71-LVR5-0.1 was the first on their list
(1% tolerance) and only $1.19 each (shipping will cost more.) It will
effect the charger a little so it would be best to do this with a known
good charger to understand. The resistor will cause the charger to
think the battery is 0.1 volts higher per amp of charge current. You
can measure the voltage across the resistor and every 100ma is one amp.
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:54 AM 15/07/06 -0700, Roger wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
<snip>
> The textbook definition is power factor = real power / apparent power;
> that is, PF = Watts / (Volts x Amps).
> A "bad boy" charger, like a switcher, does not draw a sinusoidal AC
> current; it draws its AC current in pulses. Therefore, you have to use
> the textbook definition of power factor to measure it.
If I may summarise Lee's point here; power factor includes the effects
of both phase shift *and* harmonic distortion. You will not measure a
PF of 0.97 with any device that just rectifies the AC mains as the first
thing it does
G'day All
Well, like I said, this is something I've only just really learned about.
The (major European) manufacturer of variable-frequency drives, the
national (Australian) generator engineering support people at Cat and the
local electricity retailer all seem to consider that the VFDs are producing
good power factor and bad harmonic distortion - it would seem that they are
both using power factor as a definition of phase shift, and all are
concerned about the ramifications of the levels of harmonic distortion.
Previously I haven't needed to worry about these things, but a project that
I've got involved in I seem to have been "volunteered" to be the project
manager for the electrical systems.
Another thing that I've learned is that the local electricity retailer is
looking at using sodium-sulphur batteries from NSK in Japan. NSK are
touting them as available for load-leveling applications for electricity
distribution. I'm finding out how available they are to smaller users....
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I’m considering a design for my battery box which would allow an air gap
(approx 1”) on all sides of each battery. For warm weather running the
gap would be channel for cooling air scooped from below, directed into
the bottom of the box and then exhausted up/out the back.
For winter running, a sandwich of some kind of resistance heater with
rigid insulation would be slid down into these same 1” gaps; plugged
into the mains and run off a timer for an early morning warm up.
Example of this type of heater:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7583180540&fromMakeTr
ack=true
Anyone used this kind of system? Links for other suppliers of these
heaters? Recommended insulation?
Thanks very much.
Steven Potter, Toronto
’98 Ranger on the drawing board
--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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7/14/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a thought as an alternate, though still nonisolated, solution:
http://www.supertex.com/pdf/datasheets/HV9931.pdf
It provides a power factor corrected, low THD, limited inrush current,
constant DC output current solution with a very reasonable number of
parts. The IC is line powered up to 450v (no transformers) and has its
own transistor driver. It's also well supported and applications notes
show all the applicable formulas and issues. Supertex has a lot of
markets with their LEDs and should be a reliable supplier, I've dealt
with them and they're a great company.
Given it's still sort of a "bad boy" for being nonisolated. But add a
bit of surrounding logic and you can adjust the current rate according
to whatever your power source is capable of, do a voltage detection to
tell it to go to stage 2 and let the regs balance the charge, and shut
it off. All at a crazy low price. The power line will be happy and,
being adjustable and with low power factor/THD it should be able to suck
more power out of the line without popping a breaker.
One flaw I did see in that plan is that this is a dc/dc converter in
constant current mode, so as battery voltage rises the output wattage
increases and thus the input current will increase. This conflicts with
the the idea of being able to dial in the best current your outlet can
provide, without additional compensation the current will increase past
the initial set point.
Danny
James Massey wrote:
At 09:54 AM 15/07/06 -0700, Roger wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
<snip>
> The textbook definition is power factor = real power / apparent power;
> that is, PF = Watts / (Volts x Amps).
> A "bad boy" charger, like a switcher, does not draw a sinusoidal AC
> current; it draws its AC current in pulses. Therefore, you have to use
> the textbook definition of power factor to measure it.
If I may summarise Lee's point here; power factor includes the effects
of both phase shift *and* harmonic distortion. You will not measure a
PF of 0.97 with any device that just rectifies the AC mains as the first
thing it does
G'day All
Well, like I said, this is something I've only just really learned
about. The (major European) manufacturer of variable-frequency drives,
the national (Australian) generator engineering support people at Cat
and the local electricity retailer all seem to consider that the VFDs
are producing good power factor and bad harmonic distortion - it would
seem that they are both using power factor as a definition of phase
shift, and all are concerned about the ramifications of the levels of
harmonic distortion.
Previously I haven't needed to worry about these things, but a project
that I've got involved in I seem to have been "volunteered" to be the
project manager for the electrical systems.
Another thing that I've learned is that the local electricity retailer
is looking at using sodium-sulphur batteries from NSK in Japan. NSK
are touting them as available for load-leveling applications for
electricity distribution. I'm finding out how available they are to
smaller users....
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While dropping things off at the recycling center today I took a quick
look at the battery recycling pile. Normally just starting batteries and
the like, but today I saw something different: A battery with 5 cell
caps and steel interconnects.
Flooded NiCD. There was only one, and it looks to be a 6 volter. I
grabbed it, stuck it in the car and took it home. The only thing on it
is MEP-3, along with a min-max water level. All cells report 1.2 volts,
will try load testing it tomorrow. I'm guessing it's fine.
Any idea what it came from, and if they might work as flooded NiCDs? It
feels lighter than the BB600's, bigger, maybe it came from a emergency
lamp or something that would stay on float.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All -
Any insight into the effect of power steering on range?? I have a Zilla
controller and the Warp 9 on order for my first conversion, and am in the
market for a LIGHT truck, preferably w/out power steering, but that does not
seem to be the norm for trucks since 1995....
I originally thought the S-10 would be the ticket, but it is significantly
(300 lbs) heavier...
Right now, seems like the Toyota Tacoma is the "lightest" truck, coming in
at a curb weight of slightly less than 2600 lbs....
Any constructive input would be more than appreciated!
Thx, Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello :)
Somebody suggested to use a voltage divider for my Basic Stamp 'high
voltage' project.
So - I'd like the electronic 'gurus' here to verify my calculation, before
I attempt to illuminate my room with a glowing basic stamp ;)
Two resistor voltage divider with R1=100K and R2=2K, where the volatage
will be taken off R2 and either fed into an opto-coupler or an ADC0831.
Open circuit voltage should be around 2.8 V, max. current through the
resistors should be neglible (around 1 mA). Did I do my homework right?
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Add State Beaurocrats to the list of Suspects.
I finally got the paperwork to apply
for a Specially Constructed/Reconstruct title
(same procedure, different name). They sent me the
paperwork even though they don't allow EV's.
I spoke to the (local) Inpsector, and he said I need
to talk to Special Titles first, and so I did,
since I want to know I'll be able to get a title
before I spend a bunch of time and money on
this donor vehicle....
The special person in Special Titles,
had told me months ago that they don't allow EV's.
I complained to the Governor, and then I got a letter
from the NJ Commissioner of Transportation, telling me
the procedure, and mentioning this special lady by name...
I called her again, and she said again, NO.
So I said What about the Letter?
As for the No Title? Well, it has to be
RUNNING to apply for a Title ("Insufficient Evidence Title"),
and EV's don't RUN in NJ!"
She said, talk to Agency Operations, and
gave me a name and number. Cool!
I get a clerk there, not the Supervisor mentioned,
and she agreed, they don't register EV's.
So I said, What about the LETTER?
She said, Fax it to me! I did, with a cover letter.
In the cover letter to this manager of Agency Operations,
I opened saying "I want to be driving an EV on NJ Highways soon",
and mentioned that I am considering buying a commercial
conversion or doing my own conversion.
(PS, any for Sale in the NorthEast?)
I didn't get to talk to them on Friday, but
Monday morning, here I come!
It's risky, I know, all the cards on the table,
giving my real name, etc...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My '88 Mitsubishi Mightymax 4WD weighed in at 3080 lbs and running Armstrong
power steering with stock power steering unit is just
fine. The batteries shift the weight back and now at 4060 lbs the front end is
only 100 or so lbs lighter than it was stock. The
breaks are useable right now in manual however I have my eye out for an
electric vacuum pump.
The Mitsu trucks (in 4WD anyway) were lighter than the Ranger and S-10's I
looked at. I couldn't find a Toyota used for sale that
wasn't too beat up to look at.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/756
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Michael Mohlere
> Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 8:07 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: EV truck conversion and power steering
>
>
> All -
>
> Any insight into the effect of power steering on range?? I have a Zilla
> controller and the Warp 9 on order for my first conversion, and am in the
> market for a LIGHT truck, preferably w/out power steering, but that does not
> seem to be the norm for trucks since 1995....
>
> I originally thought the S-10 would be the ticket, but it is significantly
> (300 lbs) heavier...
>
> Right now, seems like the Toyota Tacoma is the "lightest" truck, coming in
> at a curb weight of slightly less than 2600 lbs....
>
> Any constructive input would be more than appreciated!
>
> Thx, Mike
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great post John (as usual, I should add.) I put this one in my "EV
Keepers" file. :^)
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike and all,
Michael Mohlere wrote:
Any insight into the effect of power steering on range?? I have a Zilla
controller and the Warp 9 on order for my first conversion, and am in the
market for a LIGHT truck,
AFAIK, the maximum power draw for Power Steering will be somewhere
around 1kW, but it varies depending on the particular system's design
and load (i.e. P/S uses far less power when the wheels are centered).
If we assume the 'worst case' scenario of you running the P/S pump
continuously and (for whatever reason) it's always pulling max. power,
then every hour you're loosing 1kWh of energy to P/S. If your EV, being
a truck, typically uses 500Wh per mile, then every hour you drive the
truck with P/S you're reducing its range by 2 miles.
This isn't very significant, especially if you take into account that
the actual energy consumption for the P/S system should be notably less
under normal circumstances.
Hope that helps,
--
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://go.DriveEV.com/
http://www.ACEAA.org/
--------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
if you're looking for LIGHT, consider the mid 80's Dodge Rampage, which
is really an "el camino"/"ranchero" version of the Dodge Omni/Charger,
only 2600lb curb weight. Now if you want a full frame truck, that's
another story.
Jack
Michael Mohlere wrote:
All -
Any insight into the effect of power steering on range?? I have a
Zilla controller and the Warp 9 on order for my first conversion, and am
in the market for a LIGHT truck, preferably w/out power steering, but
that does not seem to be the norm for trucks since 1995....
I originally thought the S-10 would be the ticket, but it is
significantly (300 lbs) heavier...
Right now, seems like the Toyota Tacoma is the "lightest" truck, coming
in at a curb weight of slightly less than 2600 lbs....
Any constructive input would be more than appreciated!
Thx, Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
LOL, don't great minds think alike!! I still have 1.5 Citicars and believe you
me the thought had crossed my mind. Except the steering and brakes would still
be substandard and who would want to have that much money in a Citicar? I
decided to just sell the complete one to help finance buying one of the
drives. We shall see how it turns out. David Chapman.
Quoting David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On 11 Jul 2006 at 12:17, Roger Stockton wrote:
>
> > Looks like they are reselling the HiPerformance Golf Car setup:
> >
> > <http://hiperformancegolfcars.com/>
>
> Hmm. If I still had my Comuta-Car ...
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff,
That Mitsu PU isn't a gasser, is it? Sounds like you might have another
project to keep in mind, eh?
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
> Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 3:58 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Aero shaft drive idea.
>
>
> Not necessarily in reverse.
>
> Isn't there 2 ways to flip the housing on some differentials? imagine
> rotating it in place with both tires rolling on the ground, left becomes
> right ,visa-versa, and the rotation is backwards. Or glue the wheels in
> place, pick up the pinion and swing it over the top until it points
> back. There are things like shock mounts and spring perches and vents to
> deal with at this point, but the rotation stays the same.
>
> I think keeping the rotation the same is important for a few reasons.
> Strength of the ring and pinion, effiency, and proper brake operation.
>
> A third option I was thinking about for the 300zx, which has a
> stationary rear end with independent suspension, was side by side warp
> 9's in the fuel tank area. A 2" thick vertical box mounted to a plate
> sandwhiched under the diffy accepts 2 short drivelines from the warps
> and has double roller chain to a sprocket on the pinion. The 5" hole
> for the tanks gauge is big enough to drop the motor cables through so
> the zilla stays out of the rain. Then I put a layer of batteries up
> front and cover it with a false floor that holds the charger, dc-dc and
> vacuum pump.
>
> ps There are lots of 300zx's around here and I am not giving up on this
> idea. I am changeing jobs, loosing my access to the machine shop, but my
> 3 car garage will be going through a transformation. Today I unloaded
> from my mitsubishi PU a bridgeport (by myself with an engine hoist,
> almost a Tim Taylor incedent) It needs reassembly and a few new parts.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How odd -
I and several others bought Solectria's from TransOptions, a pilot
program in New Jersey that provided cars for commuters at the Morristown
Train Station. As in a small fleet of EVs titled, insured and on the
road in NJ. The program has (sadly) been phased out, but you could try
asking the folks at TransOptions about the legal end of things. Contact
John Fiore at 973-267-7600 x 101 or Don Watt at 973-267-7600 x 109.
Good luck!
Seth Rothenberg wrote:
The special person in Special Titles,
had told me months ago that they don't allow EV's.
I complained to the Governor, and then I got a letter
from the NJ Commissioner of Transportation, telling me
the procedure, and mentioning this special lady by name...
I called her again, and she said again, NO.
So I said What about the Letter?
As for the No Title? Well, it has to be
RUNNING to apply for a Title ("Insufficient Evidence Title"),
and EV's don't RUN in NJ!"
She said, talk to Agency Operations, and
gave me a name and number. Cool!
I get a clerk there, not the Supervisor mentioned,
and she agreed, they don't register EV's.
So I said, What about the LETTER?
She said, Fax it to me! I did, with a cover letter.
In the cover letter to this manager of Agency Operations,
I opened saying "I want to be driving an EV on NJ Highways soon",
and mentioned that I am considering buying a commercial
conversion or doing my own conversion.
(PS, any for Sale in the NorthEast?)
I didn't get to talk to them on Friday, but
Monday morning, here I come!
It's risky, I know, all the cards on the table,
giving my real name, etc...
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1997 Solectria Force
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart is building me his battery balancer.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike, If you want a really clean conversion please measure under the Toyota
first to see where the frame is and driveline to allow for batteries under
the bed. A tilt bed with the batteries under it makes for an awesome
conversion. This totally frees up the bed space keeping the vehicle for what
it was intended. It also keeps your center of gravity lower for better
handling. An added feature of doing an S-10 is that bolt in adaptors and
motor mounts are readily available. No re-inventing the wheel here. Check
out all the nice S-10s on the EV album, www.evalbum.com before you make a
decision. Unless you drive on a really curvy road every day power steering
does not impose significant losses.
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Mohlere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 9:07 PM
Subject: EV truck conversion and power steering
All -
Any insight into the effect of power steering on range?? I have a Zilla
controller and the Warp 9 on order for my first conversion, and am in the
market for a LIGHT truck, preferably w/out power steering, but that does
not seem to be the norm for trucks since 1995....
I originally thought the S-10 would be the ticket, but it is
significantly (300 lbs) heavier...
Right now, seems like the Toyota Tacoma is the "lightest" truck, coming
in at a curb weight of slightly less than 2600 lbs....
Any constructive input would be more than appreciated!
Thx, Mike
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 14, 2006, at 8:41 PM, David Sherritze wrote:
> How do you test a 12 volt charger that only had a red and green light.
> I can put a voltage meter to a battery and get a reference. How do I
> test the output of a charger for both volts and amps?
>
> Any ideas?
Here's a low-buck, no additional equipment approach:
- measure the battery voltage without connecting the charger
- connect the charger and confirm that the voltage increases to a higher level;
if it does, then the charger is outputing voltage and current
- verify that the LEDs indicate the expected/proper charger behaviour
This does not allow you to quantify the charger output current. To do that,
you could measure the voltage drop across a known resistance between the
battery and charger. The "proper" way is to do as Paul G. suggests and use a
precision resistor as a shunt, however, you most likely don't need this sort of
accuracy. Assuming your voltage meter has the ability to measure resistance
also, you could try connecting one lead of the charger to the battery via a
length of some less-than-ideal conductor, such as a steel nail or a length of
steel strapping or angle iron, etc. Whatever you have laying about. The
important thing is to connect your meter across this piece of metal (do not
connect it to the exact same points as the wires to the charger and battery or
your readings will be thrown off) and measure its resistance first without the
battery of charger connected. If you cannot get a reasonable reading, then use
a longer length of metal.
With the charger connected to the battery through this shunt, mesure the
voltage drop across it and then compute the current in amps by dividing the
observed voltage drop in volts by the resistance you measured initially, in
ohms.
If your meter does not have the ability to measure resistance, then you could
get a crude idea of the charger output current by applying a load to the
battery thile the charger is running and observing if the battery voltage falls
to, or below, the level you measured before attaching the battery charger. As
long as the voltage remains above the original battery voltage, the chargr
output current is greater than the load you have applied. Is you connect the
charger to the starting battery in an ICE vehicle, then you can apply various
loads simply by turning on the parking lights, or headlights, or heater fan,
etc.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
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Subject: RE: Battery Charger Testing
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 07:52:19 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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From: "Roger Stockton--
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Subject: RE: BMS poll
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:06:54 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
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=20
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Paul G.
Sent: Sat 15/07/2006 3:43 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: BMS poll
On Jul 15, 2006, at 03:43 AM, Paul G. wrote:
> He did in the post that started this thread.
>=20
>Mike Phillips wrote:
>>> I thought a poll is appropriate to see how many have
>>> something attached to each battery that is active in managing the
>>> battery pack. One charger per battery counts. Having a fancy charger
>>> alone does not count.
>>>
>>> So how many folks on this last have bms on their battery pack?
You misunderstand what I said. Yes, Mike *did* attempt to redefine the =
term "BMS" in the post that started this thread; the concern I have =
expressed with this is that the conventional usage and established =
meaning of "BMS" differs from what Mike is specifically polling about =
and therefore its use in the subject line is misleading and confusing.
>I agree with Steve on this. In fact I think the continual hijacking of
>Mike's thread is getting rude.
I appreciate your and Steve's opinions, hovever, I don't see that I have =
hijacked Mike's thread at all. Indeed, my post was directed at Mike =
specifically; it is *his* poll, and it was up to him to decide if he =
agreed with my concern regarding the questionable use of "BMS" in the =
context of this poll sufficiently to re-post his poll question with a =
new, more appropriate subject line or not. As far as I am concerned, it =
is the posts from people expressing their opinions as to whether or not =
my concern is valid or appropriate, or complaining that Mike's thread is =
being hijacked that are in fact responsible for any thread hijacking =
that may be happening! ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
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Subject: RE: BMS poll
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:06:54 -0700
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From: "Roger Stockton--
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Subject: RE: AC output to rectifier
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:17:56 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
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James Massey wrote:
>The (major European) manufacturer of variable-frequency drives, the
>national (Australian) generator engineering support people at Cat and =
the
>local electricity retailer all seem to consider that the VFDs are =
producing
>good power factor and bad harmonic distortion - it would seem that they =
are
>both using power factor as a definition of phase shift, and all are
>concerned about the ramifications of the levels of harmonic distortion.
We may all be saying the same thing ;^>
=20
It happens that EU emission specs are written such that there are both =
PF and harmonic limits that must be met. and while I am not familiar =
with the specific standards applicable to VFDs, I know that with battery =
chargers it is possible to have what would ordinarily be considered =
"good" PF (e.g. >0.9), yet still fail the harmonic limits!
=20
I suspect that what these people are saying is that the VFDs have =
reasonable/good PF but their harmonic distortion still exceeds the =
appropriate limits.
=20
You might ask them what instrument they use to measure PF. I'm unaware =
of any instrument that provides a PF value that does not take into =
account both phase shift and THD, so unless they are measuring PF =
specifically by observing the phase shift between the line voltage and =
current with a 'scope, it is likely that their PF value includes both.
=20
Cheers,
=20
Roger.
=20
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Subject: RE: AC output to rectifier
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:17:56 -0700
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From: "Roger Stockton--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 09:26:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Voltage Divider
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
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I'm not sure what the max voltage you are planning on
measuring, but I ran some numbers. You said 2.8V is
the max that should appear on your a/d converter.
2.8V/2,000 Ohms is is 1.4mA through the 2k resistor.
I'll assume this same current flows through the 100K
resistor as well. Since power = I*I*R,
power=(1.4mA)*(1.4mA)*(100KOhms) = 0.196 watts. This
is pretty close to a 1/4 watt resistor, and will get
hot. If you look at the data sheets for resistors,
quite often you will see a formula for the "Rated
Cont. working voltage" wich is the square root of the
power rating times the resistance. So for a 1/4W 100K
resistor, it's about 158 volts. That again is pretty
close to 140V you would see if 1.4mA went through the
100K resistor. If it were me, I'd use two 50K
resistors in series. This would give you a max
voltage of about 111V each 50K resistor, and about
0.098 watts through each 50K resistor.
I'm not sure what your circuit is, and I'm a little
confused about when you say the voltage will be taken
off R2 and might be feed into an opto-coupler. What
are you trying to do here? Turn on an opto-coupler
when high voltage is present?
Good luck with your project, let us know how it turns
out, but most importantly, Have Fun!
- Steven Ciciora
--- Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello :)
>
> Somebody suggested to use a voltage divider for my
> Basic Stamp 'high
> voltage' project.
>
> So - I'd like the electronic 'gurus' here to verify
> my calculation, before
> I attempt to illuminate my room with a glowing basic
> stamp ;)
>
> Two resistor voltage divider with R1=100K and R2=2K,
> where the volatage
> will be taken off R2 and either fed into an
> opto-coupler or an ADC0831.
> Open circuit voltage should be around 2.8 V, max.
> current through the
> resistors should be neglible (around 1 mA). Did I do
> my homework right?
>
> Michaela
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:15:47 -0700
From: Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Colin Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED], Alan Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
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Subject: Local Boy does National Radio Call IN SHOW on EV's
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Monday Morning, (The Dr. Pat Show ) July 17th, KKNW - AM (Seattle)
1150 on your Ancient Modulation (AM) Radio Sets...
Or on the World Wide Web LIVE at: (http://www.newschannel1150.com/ )
this show also plays on WWPR-AM 1490 in the Tampa Sarasota, FL. area at
2 pm EDT
AND on VoiceAmerica.com at 7am and 7 pm PDT
And HealthyLife.net at 8 am PDT
And BBSRadio.com on Wednesdays at 6 pm PDT
See my big ugly puss...And a description of the Interview ...........
on Dr. Pat's Web site at:
http://www.crustbusting.com/
Also joining me by phone, will be folks from Plug-In-America
Probably Ms. Chelsea Sexton.. ( from the movie..Who Killed the
Electric Car .
WHEEEEEeeeewwwww !
Tune IN, or set your IPods on RECORD... Let me know what you think of
how the interview went...
Dr. Pat's PEOPLE are trying to set up an Advertising Co-Op of Electric
Car Providers.. And then follow up on MY interview with interviews with
other EV types over the next few months.
An ambitious undertaking... I explained that many of today's EV
Providers, Conversion folks, EV Parts, Etc... are small businesses.
And some are large like the GEM division of Dalmer/Chrysler... MORE on
this Campaign / Idea soon....
Till Then...
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:26:12 -0500
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Voltage Divider
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Michaela Merz wrote:
> voltage divider for my Basic Stamp 'high voltage' project...
> Two resistor voltage divider with R1=100K and R2=2K, where the
> volatage will be taken off R2 and either fed into an opto-coupler
> or an ADC0831.
A voltage divider only produces an accurate ratio with precision
resistors, and when there is negligible current drawn from the tap
between them.
The LED of an optocoupler requires currents on the order of 1-10 ma, so
you can't drive it with a voltage divider. However, an optocoupler's
output current is (roughly) proportional to its LED current. Therefore,
it is possible to get a (rough) measurement of battery voltage with just
a resistor and the opto's LED in series. 1-10ma corresponds to 1/10th to
full battery voltage (i.e. a 10k resistor makes 1-10ma represent 10-100
volts).
Add a zener diode in series to offset this range. A 50v zener and 10k
resistor makes 1-10ma represent 60-160v.
Measure the transistor current of the phototransistor to estimate
battery voltage. The Stamp's RCTIME command will directly measure the
phototransistor's current, so you don't need an A/D converter.
Now this is *very* crude; it changes between parts, drifts with
temperature, and over time. However, with a microcomputer, you may be
able to individually calibrate it to work well enough for your purposes.
It's probably good enough to spot a couple key voltages, like 10.5v and
15v, and give you an approximation of voltages between them. Calibrate
it with a more accurate indication of total pack voltage and temperature
(perhaps from an E-meter), and it could work well ok.
The AD0831 is only an 8-bit converter, and has no internal voltage
reference. Suppose you use a 5v regulator as both supply and reference;
then your accuracy will be limited as most voltage regulator ICs aren't
very good references (+/-5%, drifts with temperature, etc.) Note: a
power supply that converts a high pack voltage to 5v for the AD0831 is
not going to be as simple as one IC!
8 bits with a 5v reference is 5v/256 = 0.0195 v/step. Your 100k/2k
resistive voltage divider reduces the voltage by (2/(2+100) = 0.0196.
So, 1 volt = 1 step, and your 8-bit converter goes from 0-255 volts.
The AD0831 measures instantaneous voltage; that means one reading could
easily just happen to give you the voltage during a noise peak. You'll
have to make many readings and average them together to get a meaningful
number. The AD0831 also draws up to 1uA of input current. This is about
0.1% of the current in the 2k resistor, causing another 0.1% error.
You'd of course need two optocouplers to drive the AD0831 clock and data
lines to have isolation between pack and Stamp.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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