EV Digest 5660
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Dc-DC converter/power supply
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Dc-DC converter/power supply
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: AC output to rectifier
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: Aluminium battery 3000 cycles.
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Another car show
by "Mike Ellis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Aluminium battery 3000 cycles.-Snake oil?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: S10 model curb weight(s)
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Aluminium battery 3000 cycles.
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Trying to understand shunt regs
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Another car show
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Dead Digital Dashboard
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: AC output to rectifier
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: AC output to rectifier
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Trying to understand shunt regs
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Interesting article on the EV1 and customer support...
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) MadeinChina2006 digital meters
by Steve Condie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Trying to understand shunt regs
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Dead Digital Dashboard
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Dead Digital Dashboard
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Aluminium battery 3000 cycles - please no oilys!!!
by Tom Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Aluminium battery 3000 cycles - please no oilys!!!
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: MadeinChina2006 digital meters
by "Shawn Waggoner \(EV List\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Interesting article on the EV1 and customer support...
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Is 14 volts a little too high to float a pba on? Is 14v the low limit or can it
go lower? And how
is the efficiency when it's cranked way down like this?
Dave Cover
--- "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, I designed a VP-12124 for Valcom (300W) 24V supply that has a
> feedback resistor
> that can be tweaked to operate at 14V. I use it in my Cushman as a DC
> converter at 72V input
> since it's a universal input PFC supply and can operate from 72V to 336VDC
> input 300W output.
> I'ts available through Graybar for around $200. It can also be used as a
> battery charger.
> Best Regards,
> Mark
>
> Re: Supplying AC power supply with DC, for beginners
> Plain Text Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo!
> Briefcase ]
>
>
> Dave Cover wrote: > I'm just looking for the general rules on how to hook up
> an AC power >
> supply to DC. In particular, I'm trying to understand how to use a >
> switching power supply as
> a DC-DC converter. There are no simple answers because there are so many
> types of power
> supplies. Some work on DC, some don't. Most are not built as battery
> chargers, and so have
> various problems. Most are not built to survive the outdoor automotive
> environment; more
> problems. If the supply uses a 60hz transformer or AC
>
> __________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
Is 14 volts a little too high to float a pba on? Is 14v the low limit or can it
go lower? And how
is the efficiency when it's cranked way down like this?
14v is too high for a float voltage; it will kill the battery from
overcharging.
13.5v is the "nominal" float voltage for a 12v lead-acid battery. You
actually need to vary this from 13.2v to 13.8v depending on temperature,
age of battery, and type of battery.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Steve and (Martin, Roland, Mike & others for the info on your
charger and the other good info.
I guess my autotransformer must be shorted somehow. It tries to pull 70
Amps (should pull 20A) I'll rewire it.
Should a transformer read open or short across the taps?
0,105,110,115,120,125?
1.)
STEVE, is a 600 W light dimmer normal. All the ones at home depot are
rated 60-100 Watts. Then, I read on the EVDL archives, that a fan dimmer
would be better, since it doesn't have a DC component
>Quote Dave Roden year 2001: "The problem is that a light dimmer isn't
built for the application. They
>don't worry about minimizing any DC in the output, because light bulbs
work equally well on AC or DC.
>
>But AC motors and transformers *hate* DC -- even a small amount makes
>them saturate, draw excessive current, and overheat. Light dimmers meant
>to control transformers and motors are a little more expensive, but they
>have extra circuitry to guarantee that there is no DC in the output. The
>waveform is symmetrical at any setting."
Still, where would one find a 600 Watt fan adjuster?
Steve, How healthy is your transformer after extended use, and light
dimmer? Can you give me a manufacturer and model # on that light dimmer
please?
I do have an Amp clamp, GFI, box, fan, fuses DC and AC side breaker, so
probably just need to rewire to the autotransformer, or its broken.
2.)
MARTIN,
When you speak of capacitors after the rectifier, I am interested. How
heavy? (fairly light or monster size?, how many and do you have specs on
them please so that I can duplicate?
Thanks, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It would br nice but 4 years is a ways off to come to market if they already
have a patented technology. Alot of the claims on the Weblink are similar to
the Zinc Fuel cells from Metallic Power. And the Bull factor I noted was "
Aluminium is one of the most plentiful materials on earth". Also the examples
of failures does not get my hopes up either.
See www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Al/key.html
However if true and they do get to the market think of how fast the White
Zombie and Current Eliminator would be with 1/3 the weight they now carry!
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://www.europositron.com/en/manufacturing.html They claim 20 times the
energy density of current batteries. We have Firefly, Li Ion and now
Aluminium with normal lead style charging. When will we see a new range
record? Current record is over 1000 miles on a charge. That was Zinc
technology. I can hardly wait. Lawrence Rhodes.......
---------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
There's a difference?
Oh.
-Mike
On 7/18/06, Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ah well. That's the difference between what you can do and what you should do.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to a group linked below this is snake oil with great claims bad math
and sensationalism. This was a google search on Rainer Partanen the patent
holder.
groups.google.co.hu/group/sci.chem.electrochem.battery/browse_thread/thread/7fbd4f9f5c571edf/79c045c8ed282a8f?hl=hu#79c045c8ed282a8f
Firefly batteries are another example of "this is the plan" type group.
Sure would be nice if they really came up with something but mostly it looks
like hey here the next best thing throw us some money so we can bring it to
market.
Here an example from Firefly energy:
"The Company will be in limited production with the first version of the
product in Q4, 2007. As you might expect the technology has broad applicability
for many applications and products. While weâve been discussing the
technology with the EV community, as an early stage company, our first products
are funded by organizations who have an urgent and strategic need for an energy
storage competitive advantage. If you know of any such organization willing to
fund the applied engineering for an EV application, it will quickly move this
application into a priority."
Which means with out investment by an outside organization the will be no EV
Firefy batteries for a while yet. Sorry to burst the bubbles.
Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It would br nice but 4 years is a
ways off to come to market if they already have a patented technology. Alot of
the claims on the Weblink are similar to the Zinc Fuel cells from Metallic
Power. And the Bull factor I noted was " Aluminium is one of the most
plentiful materials on earth". Also the examples of failures does not get my
hopes up either.
See www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Al/key.html
However if true and they do get to the market think of how fast the White
Zombie and Current Eliminator would be with 1/3 the weight they now carry!
Lawrence Rhodes
wrote: http://www.europositron.com/en/manufacturing.html They claim 20 times
the
energy density of current batteries. We have Firefly, Li Ion and now
Aluminium with normal lead style charging. When will we see a new range
record? Current record is over 1000 miles on a charge. That was Zinc
technology. I can hardly wait. Lawrence Rhodes.......
---------------------------------
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starting at 1�/min.
---------------------------------
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Groups.
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--- Begin Message ---
Car weights for EPA tests:
<http://www.epa.gov/otaq/tcldata.htm>
another good one:
<http://www.carpoint.com>
--- Michael Mohlere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does anyone have the "curb weights" of the various years the S10
> was
> produced?? Obviously, I am looking for the "lightest" S10 (reg cab,
> short
> bed), and am fairly sure it was not one of the recent incarnations
> of same -
> I think they stopped making the S10 in 2004. I am currently in the
> process
> of contacting GM to see if they have the data (more to the point -
> to see if
> I can get it from them!) - the various sources on the web seem
> often to be
> in conflict w/ one another, so I would like to get the info from
> the horses mouth, so to speak.
>
> On another note, I have been going "round and round" trying to
> decide
> which truck to convert - after much consternation, it appears that
> the S10
> is the only reasonable candidate if you want to keep the stock bed
> on the
> vehicle - any other truck requires you to remove the bed and make a
> new one,
> or actually raise the vehicle to accomodate the batteries (saw one
> of these in the evalbum.com)...
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--- Begin Message ---
Bruce wrote:
> And the Bull factor I noted was "Aluminium is one of the most plentiful
materials on earth".
Hm, are you questioning the abundance of Aluminum?
http://www.bookrags.com/sciences/earthscience/aluminum-woes-01.html
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bruce Weisenberger
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7:30 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Aluminium battery 3000 cycles.
It would br nice but 4 years is a ways off to come to market if they already
have a patented technology. Alot of the claims on the Weblink are similar to
the Zinc Fuel cells from Metallic Power. And the Bull factor I noted was "
Aluminium is one of the most plentiful materials on earth". Also the
examples of failures does not get my hopes up either.
See www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Al/key.html
However if true and they do get to the market think of how fast the White
Zombie and Current Eliminator would be with 1/3 the weight they now carry!
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://www.europositron.com/en/manufacturing.html They claim 20 times the
energy density of current batteries. We have Firefly, Li Ion and now
Aluminium with normal lead style charging. When will we see a new range
record? Current record is over 1000 miles on a charge. That was Zinc
technology. I can hardly wait. Lawrence Rhodes.......
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Here is the current vs. voltage relationship. This one is already
>> potted; I think it has one 6.2v and one 6.8v zener.
>>
>> Current Voltage
>> ------- -------
>> 0.1ma 12.46v
>> 1ma 12.88v negligible current when not on charge
>> 10ma 13.18v
>> 100ma 13.60v start bypassing as battery exceeds gassing threshold
>> 200ma 14.42v lamp begins to glow
>> 500ma 15.24v lamp fully lit and limiting current
Steve Condie wrote:
Based on my experience, that looks like two 6.8's. With two 6.8's
I start to get a visible glow at around 14.4. With a 6.8 and a 6.2
I get a visible glow at around 13.8 - 13.9.
No, the above appears to be the 6.2v +6.8v zener version. Here is the
same data for one with two 6.8v zeners:
Current Voltage
------- -------
0.1ma 13.50v
1ma 13.85v negligible current when not on charge
10ma 14.19v
100ma 14.5v start bypassing as battery exceeds gassing threshold
200ma 14.62v lamp begins to glow
500ma 15.90v lamp fully lit and limiting current
Note that these are the "cold" specs. As the zeners heat up, their
voltage rises; that means the current at any given voltage falls a bit.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, your experience is very true! Things haven't changed! That is the
general public - which we need to educate. Like I said, I have been to lots of
car shows and the crowd you mentioned is all there. It doesn't matter what car
they are looking at, main-stream or odd, there will be lots of rude, derogatory
remarks. There is always lots of hard opinions flying around and EV's might as
well be in there with it all. We should all get used to that!
By all means you absolutely must stay with your car or take a friend to swap
duty with. This is true no matter what kind of car you are showing.
About safety, your car should be safe for public viewing. I believe that
should be true whether you are showing it or not. Safety should never be a
side subject.
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: Another car show
Ken: Based on my very limited experience...
Any show, car show, Earthday or whatever... keep close to your vehicle. It's
best if you can bring along another person to spell you, or come as a group.
Auto shows aren't the circus (quite) that are alternate energy gatherings
(at least locally) but you do have to keep an eye on the gawkers... and
answer lots of questions. Hand outs are a great idea.
Having a car you might be interested in seeing in a show is a big plus. Even
if it's not perfect, detailing it (at least throwing out the McDonald's
wrappers) is a good idea. <g>
You do have to watch some people. Especially the kids and the people who
have little brain power. That's why car shows are sometimes a good idea...
folks seem to believe that they can't tear off part of the car to take home
with them, or jump in the seats, or try to tip it over. Some folks are
interested, to others thing it's a circus event, showing an EV... comic
relief. To those, they expect you to juggle, wear a clown suit, and tell
them life is all rosy and perfect. "Sure, you can buy an EV for $49, go 3000
miles on a charge, and never have to worry about maintenance. I'll build you
one tonight." That sort of thing.
This latter group wouldn't be happy if you hung them with a new rope. (Not a
bad idea, but not practical... too many new ropes.) So you have to keep your
sense of humor. You have to explain (dozens of times) why you can't hook up
a windmill, PV, or generator to the tires... that sort of thing. (I usually
smiled and said, "Good idea.") When someone decides to stand in your seat
and get their picture taken out the sunroof (or 4 of them sit on your hood
for the same effect) you have to explain this is *MY* car... politely... no
fire arms allowed.
Mostly, it was a matter of listening to some extremely rude induhviduals...
right in your face (or behind your back as if you couldn't hear them)
telling everyone "What a waste of money. Can't go 80MPH for 300 miles like
*my* car.)
That was a few years ago. Things may have changed.
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > I am considering registering for a local car show that will be taking
> place in the Austin, TX area July 29
> http://www.samuelsjewelers.com/carshow/index.php.
> >
> > I have been to lots of car shows (been a car buff all my life), but, I
> have never seen an EV at one. I know there are local EV's in the area and
I
> >
> > Ken
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I have been building an Electric motorcycle for a while now and one
problem I am having is with the digital instruments I'm trying to use to
monitor Voltage and Current. I have killed two sets now and this is getting
expensive. I believe I have a supression problem.
The instruments are 3 1/2 digit LCD readouts with selectable scales of .2V
to 200V. (from BG micro). One is set to 200V for the pack voltage of 48V. The
other is used on the .2 V scale along with a 50mv shunt. These readouts are
powered with a 9V battery not connected to the system (as per instructions).
The system is an Etek powered by an Millipak controller. The controller
and etec are working great. The controller drives the main contactor and claims
to have built in precharge and contactor protection (to protect the controller
I assume). The contactor is an EVparts SL1943 With 48 volt coil. I have placed
a diode across the coil terminals but it has not seemed to help.
The problem is this; The instruments work great until some idiot turns on
the controller which closes the main contactor. At this point the indicators go
blank and are never heard from again. The voltage readout on the first set
survived for several minutes but that is all.
I am assuming this is a supression problem but I am not sure how to
implement it, especially for the more sensitive current readout. Possibly MOVs
or back to back Zeners or maybe chokes. I learned a little from the discussion
of the 1141 code supression problem but it quickly got too specific.
Thanks in advance
Rick Miller
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello Ben,
If you autotransformers has separate windings for each voltage, then you can
test for continuity between each winding. It will be a very low resistance
where you may not be able to read it on a standard multimeter.
If the autotransformer windings are tap off the main winding of the
transformer, then all you can read is the continuity from the first tap off to
each other taps.
It is easier to find a short for windings that have two wire tap off. If this
is the case, then open all the windings connections that will be series to each
other.
Test the continuity of each winding, than from winding set to the next winding
set. If adjacent windings are short, this is how you will find it.
On a single tap off the main windings, it is possible to find a short by using
a light bulb test. Many motor shops have use this method.
Install 120 vac to light bulb in series with the first winding lead and a amp
meter. Connect the neutral to the next winding lead and plug into 120 VAC.
Record the ampere.
Keeping the 120 vac and light bulb on the first tap, move the neutral wire to
the next tap and so on and record the ampere.
If all windings ampere should be proportional to the rated voltage of that
winding. Lets say the first winding rated at 120 vac reads 1 amp and the next
winding rated for 240 vac should read 0.5 amp and so on.
If one winding reads the same ampere as the other or not in proportional to
that rated voltage of, than these two windings are shorted together.
You can add a filter circuit to the rectifier bridge.
A .1 uf 600 volt rated Radial Dipped Mica capacitor is connected to the one of
the AC lines going to the bridge.
Connected to this capacitor is a 10 ohm 1 watt metal film resistor.
You than connect another .1 uf 600 volt rated Radial Dipped Mica capacitor to
the other AC line going to the bridge.
And connected a 10 ohm 1 watt metal film resistor to this capacitor.
You then join these two resistors together and connect this resistor joint
between two of the diodes in the bridge.
If you are using a pair of SCR's in the bridge, then connected this resistor
connection between the two SCR's.
This same resistor joint is also connected to the output DC supply to the
negative of the battery.
The DC supply to the positive of the battery comes from the connection between
the other pair of diodes in the bridge.
The capacitor is about 1/2 inch in diameter and 1 inch long. The 1 watt
resistor is about 1/4 inch in diameter and 11/16 inch long.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: AC output to rectifier
Thanks Steve and (Martin, Roland, Mike & others for the info on your
charger and the other good info.
I guess my autotransformer must be shorted somehow. It tries to pull 70
Amps (should pull 20A) I'll rewire it.
Should a transformer read open or short across the taps?
0,105,110,115,120,125?
1.)
STEVE, is a 600 W light dimmer normal. All the ones at home depot are
rated 60-100 Watts. Then, I read on the EVDL archives, that a fan dimmer
would be better, since it doesn't have a DC component
>Quote Dave Roden year 2001: "The problem is that a light dimmer isn't
built for the application. They
>don't worry about minimizing any DC in the output, because light bulbs
work equally well on AC or DC.
>
>But AC motors and transformers *hate* DC -- even a small amount makes
>them saturate, draw excessive current, and overheat. Light dimmers meant
>to control transformers and motors are a little more expensive, but they
>have extra circuitry to guarantee that there is no DC in the output. The
>waveform is symmetrical at any setting."
Still, where would one find a 600 Watt fan adjuster?
Steve, How healthy is your transformer after extended use, and light
dimmer? Can you give me a manufacturer and model # on that light dimmer
please?
I do have an Amp clamp, GFI, box, fan, fuses DC and AC side breaker, so
probably just need to rewire to the autotransformer, or its broken.
2.)
MARTIN,
When you speak of capacitors after the rectifier, I am interested. How
heavy? (fairly light or monster size?, how many and do you have specs on
them please so that I can duplicate?
Thanks, Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ben, I'm a little baffled by your question. All of the light dimmers at my
Home Depot are rated 600W. The most common is the Leviton 6681, for $4.97. I
used one of these initially but I didn't like the fact that it was "push-on".
I wanted to get one which turned on with a "click" when the dial was rotated
then adjusted up from there, so the setting would be visually evident before I
turned the charger on. I found a "turn on" type at a different hardware store
and swapped them. I have over 500 hours on the charger with light dimmers so
far without any evident problems. Home Depot has variable fan speed adjusters,
too, but they run about $50.
It's possible that I'm not having trouble with my light dimmer because the
transformer is only handling 20% of the wattage of my charger, and I have a fan
cooling the whole setup because the rectifier does get pretty hot. Or maybe
they changed the circuitry since 2001 - I dunno.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Steve and (Martin, Roland, Mike & others for
the info on your
charger and the other good info.
I guess my autotransformer must be shorted somehow. It tries to pull 70
Amps (should pull 20A) I'll rewire it.
Should a transformer read open or short across the taps?
0,105,110,115,120,125?
1.)
STEVE, is a 600 W light dimmer normal. All the ones at home depot are
rated 60-100 Watts. Then, I read on the EVDL archives, that a fan dimmer
would be better, since it doesn't have a DC component
>Quote Dave Roden year 2001: "The problem is that a light dimmer isn't
built for the application. They
>don't worry about minimizing any DC in the output, because light bulbs
work equally well on AC or DC.
>
>But AC motors and transformers *hate* DC -- even a small amount makes
>them saturate, draw excessive current, and overheat. Light dimmers meant
>to control transformers and motors are a little more expensive, but they
>have extra circuitry to guarantee that there is no DC in the output. The
>waveform is symmetrical at any setting."
Still, where would one find a 600 Watt fan adjuster?
Steve, How healthy is your transformer after extended use, and light
dimmer? Can you give me a manufacturer and model # on that light dimmer
please?
I do have an Amp clamp, GFI, box, fan, fuses DC and AC side breaker, so
probably just need to rewire to the autotransformer, or its broken.
2.)
MARTIN,
When you speak of capacitors after the rectifier, I am interested. How
heavy? (fairly light or monster size?, how many and do you have specs on
them please so that I can duplicate?
Thanks, Ben
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--- Begin Message ---
The 200 ma reading in the first set of numbers appears anomalous to me. I
would expect it to be around 13.9 volts based on the relationship between the
other numbers in the two charts; if so, that would correspond to my
observations of when the bulbs begin to glow in the 6.2 + 6.8 vs. 2X 6.8
setups, given a little leeway for what constitutes "glowing". The other
interesting thing is that I would expect a simple +.6 volts difference between
the two charts, but that's obviously not correct.
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Lee Hart wrote:
>> Here is the current vs. voltage relationship. This one is already
>> potted; I think it has one 6.2v and one 6.8v zener.
>>
>> Current Voltage
>> ------- -------
>> 0.1ma 12.46v
>> 1ma 12.88v negligible current when not on charge
>> 10ma 13.18v
>> 100ma 13.60v start bypassing as battery exceeds gassing threshold
>> 200ma 14.42v lamp begins to glow
>> 500ma 15.24v lamp fully lit and limiting current
Steve Condie wrote:
> Based on my experience, that looks like two 6.8's. With two 6.8's
> I start to get a visible glow at around 14.4. With a 6.8 and a 6.2
> I get a visible glow at around 13.8 - 13.9.
No, the above appears to be the 6.2v +6.8v zener version. Here is the
same data for one with two 6.8v zeners:
Current Voltage
------- -------
0.1ma 13.50v
1ma 13.85v negligible current when not on charge
10ma 14.19v
100ma 14.5v start bypassing as battery exceeds gassing threshold
200ma 14.62v lamp begins to glow
500ma 15.90v lamp fully lit and limiting current
Note that these are the "cold" specs. As the zeners heat up, their
voltage rises; that means the current at any given voltage falls a bit.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.crankycustomer.com/an_electric_vehicles_shocking_problem.html
Did GM realy hit people up for damages on cars that
were going to the crusher?
TiM
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
I thought I'd give a heads-up on the digital meters being sold on EBay by
"MadeinChina2006". I was dubious about whether they'd work, given how cheap
they are ($10 for a 200 V voltmeter, $17 for a 500 amp ammeter, including
shunt) but I've had no problems with the ones I installed in my truck. You can
see a fuzzy shot of what they look like in the EVAlbum entry for my Courier.
They do require a 5VDC power supply, but that's a standard voltage which is
easily obtained -- a standard auto to USB adapter will do the trick. Four
digital meters - One 500amp, two 200 volts, and one 20 volt, plus a 5V adapter,
set me back a total of $70, including shipping. The one problem I ran into
was that the meters' negative connections bleed from the pack to the car's
ground, which popped the GFCI on my charger until I figured it out and
installed a relay on the - connections to the meters to disconnect them when
the main switch is off. It's a tiny amount of current - just enough to be
annoying and pop the GFCI.
I know some posters have issues with things made in China, but these meters are
pretty nice and, well, dirt cheap.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
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--- Begin Message ---
Steve Condie wrote:
> The 200 ma reading in the first set of numbers appears
> anomalous to me.
I think you're right; both the 1mA and 200mA numbers seem out of line
with the others.
> The other interesting thing is that I would expect a simple
> +.6 volts difference between the two charts, but that's
> obviously not correct.
Remember that common zeners are +/-5% or 10%, so the voltages will be a
bit loose anyway, and that the regulation voltage is not particularly
accurate at currents much smaller than the zener's rated Izt current.
The 6.2v zener has a slightly higher Izt than the 6.8v zener (200mA vs
175ma for the 5W 1N5341/42 parts), and so the 6.2+6.8 pair regulation
voltage may show more error at a given low current than the 2x6.8 setup.
If we consider the voltage difference between the two setups, it is
clear that as the current increases the difference approaches the
expected 0.6v value nicely, other than the 1mA and 200mA data points:
Current Voltage Difference
------- ------------------
0.1ma 1.04v
1ma 0.97v
10ma 1.01v
100ma 0.90v
200ma 0.20v
500ma 0.66v
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seems to me you need 2 isolated supplies for your LCD...
Are both supplied with same 9V batterie ?
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7:24 PM
Subject: Dead Digital Dashboard
>
> I have been building an Electric motorcycle for a while now and one
problem I am having is with the digital instruments I'm trying to use to
monitor Voltage and Current. I have killed two sets now and this is getting
expensive. I believe I have a supression problem.
> The instruments are 3 1/2 digit LCD readouts with selectable scales
of .2V to 200V. (from BG micro). One is set to 200V for the pack voltage of
48V. The other is used on the .2 V scale along with a 50mv shunt. These
readouts are powered with a 9V battery not connected to the system (as per
instructions).
> The system is an Etek powered by an Millipak controller. The
controller and etec are working great. The controller drives the main
contactor and claims to have built in precharge and contactor protection (to
protect the controller I assume). The contactor is an EVparts SL1943 With 48
volt coil. I have placed a diode across the coil terminals but it has not
seemed to help.
> The problem is this; The instruments work great until some idiot
turns on the controller which closes the main contactor. At this point the
indicators go blank and are never heard from again. The voltage readout on
the first set survived for several minutes but that is all.
> I am assuming this is a supression problem but I am not sure how to
implement it, especially for the more sensitive current readout. Possibly
MOVs or back to back Zeners or maybe chokes. I learned a little from the
discussion of the 1141 code supression problem but it quickly got too
specific.
> Thanks in advance
> Rick Miller
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and
IM. All on demand. Always Free.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes they are.
I will change to separate 9V supplies, that should at least help with the issue
of the higher voltage one feeding signals through to the more sensitive one.
However Why would they work until the contactor closed?
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: Dead Digital Dashboard
Seems to me you need 2 isolated supplies for your LCD...
Are both supplied with same 9V batterie ?
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7:24 PM
Subject: Dead Digital Dashboard
>
> I have been building an Electric motorcycle for a while now and one
problem I am having is with the digital instruments I'm trying to use to
monitor Voltage and Current. I have killed two sets now and this is getting
expensive. I believe I have a supression problem.
> The instruments are 3 1/2 digit LCD readouts with selectable scales
of .2V to 200V. (from BG micro). One is set to 200V for the pack voltage of
48V. The other is used on the .2 V scale along with a 50mv shunt. These
readouts are powered with a 9V battery not connected to the system (as per
instructions).
> The system is an Etek powered by an Millipak controller. The
controller and etec are working great. The controller drives the main
contactor and claims to have built in precharge and contactor protection (to
protect the controller I assume). The contactor is an EVparts SL1943 With 48
volt coil. I have placed a diode across the coil terminals but it has not
seemed to help.
> The problem is this; The instruments work great until some idiot
turns on the controller which closes the main contactor. At this point the
indicators go blank and are never heard from again. The voltage readout on
the first set survived for several minutes but that is all.
> I am assuming this is a supression problem but I am not sure how to
implement it, especially for the more sensitive current readout. Possibly
MOVs or back to back Zeners or maybe chokes. I learned a little from the
discussion of the 1141 code supression problem but it quickly got too
specific.
> Thanks in advance
> Rick Miller
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and
IM. All on demand. Always Free.
>
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM.
All on demand. Always Free.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all...
>Proposed Aluminum Battery Boost to electric vehicles
>Electric car of General Motors, EV 1 uses 736kg batteries giving
max. >range 145 km without recharge. A battery of 60 kg made with
>Europositron technology allows EV 1 max. range 870 km without
>recharge.
This is very, very interesting given the weight to energy ratio.
http://www.europositron.com/en/techniques.html
I sure would like to see someone other than an bastard have a
controlling share!!! I'm wondering if we can pool our resources into
accomplishing this?? 3 questions that need knoledgeable input are...
1. Has anyone ever heard of this guy? and Is he trustworthy?
http://www.europositron.com/en/partanen.html
2. Does anyone among us know or can give some insight into the
viability of this battery???
http://www.europositron.com/en/background.html
3. Is there any financial wizards among us that can comment on the
Shares setup of this venture? What would "we" need to have a
controlling interest.
http://www.europositron.com/en/index.html
thanks
Tom
---------------***------------
http://www.europositron.com/en/manufacturing.html
They claim 20 times the energy density of current batteries. We have
Firefly, Li Ion and now Aluminium with normal lead style charging.
When will we see a new range record? Current record is over 1000
miles on a charge. That was Zinc technology. I can hardly wait.
Lawrence Rhodes.......
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.
Tom Watson wrote:
Hi all...
Proposed Aluminum Battery Boost to electric vehicles
Electric car of General Motors, EV 1 uses 736kg batteries giving
max. >range 145 km without recharge. A battery of 60 kg made with
Europositron technology allows EV 1 max. range 870 km without
recharge.
This is very, very interesting given the weight to energy ratio.
http://www.europositron.com/en/techniques.html
I sure would like to see someone other than an bastard have a
controlling share!!! I'm wondering if we can pool our resources into
accomplishing this?? 3 questions that need knoledgeable input are...
1. Has anyone ever heard of this guy? and Is he trustworthy?
http://www.europositron.com/en/partanen.html
2. Does anyone among us know or can give some insight into the
viability of this battery???
http://www.europositron.com/en/background.html
3. Is there any financial wizards among us that can comment on the
Shares setup of this venture? What would "we" need to have a
controlling interest.
http://www.europositron.com/en/index.html
thanks
Tom
---------------***------------
http://www.europositron.com/en/manufacturing.html
They claim 20 times the energy density of current batteries. We have
Firefly, Li Ion and now Aluminium with normal lead style charging.
When will we see a new range record? Current record is over 1000
miles on a charge. That was Zinc technology. I can hardly wait.
Lawrence Rhodes.......
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For what it's worth, I have also purchased meter from them and they have all
worked fine. It seems to be a pretty good source for parts.
Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Condie
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 2:18 PM
To: EV List
Subject: MadeinChina2006 digital meters
I thought I'd give a heads-up on the digital meters being sold on EBay by
"MadeinChina2006". I was dubious about whether they'd work, given how cheap
they are ($10 for a 200 V voltmeter, $17 for a 500 amp ammeter, including
shunt) but I've had no problems with the ones I installed in my truck. You
can see a fuzzy shot of what they look like in the EVAlbum entry for my
Courier. They do require a 5VDC power supply, but that's a standard voltage
which is easily obtained -- a standard auto to USB adapter will do the
trick. Four digital meters - One 500amp, two 200 volts, and one 20 volt,
plus a 5V adapter, set me back a total of $70, including shipping. The one
problem I ran into was that the meters' negative connections bleed from the
pack to the car's ground, which popped the GFCI on my charger until I
figured it out and installed a relay on the - connections to the meters to
disconnect them when the main switch is off. It's a tiny amount of current
- just enough to be
annoying and pop the GFCI.
I know some posters have issues with things made in China, but these meters
are pretty nice and, well, dirt cheap.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reading the comments section of that entry was interesting.
Especially the comment about the car not meeting safety
regulations, which is easily proven false.
I responded to it, although it's not up yet. I will post the
response to the list below the line.
=============================================
Quinn, the assertion that GM got a waiver from the NHTSA is
bullshit.
You can see the crash test ratings at the following link:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/686.html
They also passed GM's crash tests.
I must thank Chelsea Sexton for the following information
below. I did not come across it on my own.
Those safety regulations that would have existed after the
EV1 program was ended were nothing that couldn't be solved.
All that was needed was fortified side impact beams and side
curtain airbags. GM's done much more radical modifications
on cars at the last minute before, with no significant cost
changes.
--- End Message ---
