EV Digest 5669
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: 1991 G-Van on Ebay, in Mesa, AZ
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: E-meter Companion
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Tesla Motors unveiled
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Tesla Motors Unveiled
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Electric Cats
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: E-meter Companion
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: BMS poll take 2
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: E-meter Companion
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: build an emeter
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: E-meter Companion
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: What Happened?!! -- Vectrix "No Show" in DC
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: E-meter Companion
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Truck runs at last (and is towed home)
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Setting up a Car Line, Some really FWD thinking.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: [uselectricar] Truck runs at last (and is towed home)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: build an emeter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: What Happened?!! -- Vectrix "No Show" in DC
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) My message to Gov. Schwarzenegger about Hydrogen Highway
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Setting up a Car Line, Some really FWD thinking.
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I did not check the size of the batteries and if they
need to be sealed or flooded, so take the worst case
(sealed) and see what we can get if we go with the
largest size of cheap batteries I know (I run them myself):
216V in 2 strings = 36 batteries.
The batteries I run are 110Ah, so two strings = 220Ah at
20h discharge, 160Ah in 1-hour discharge.
So, in 1-hour operation you have about 35 kWh on tap.
If you drive not too wildly and get 1/3 kW/mi then your
max range would be 100 miles.
At somewhere around $90 each, this should cost you $3300
in batteries, delivered to your favorite address.
If the batteries need to be smaller, then the price is
lower. (36 x 71 lbs is over 2500 lbs of lead)
If the batteries need to be half as small then I strongly
recommend to convert from two strings to one string, giving
less problems in balancing.
Success with this van!
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 12:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 1991 G-Van on Ebay, in Mesa, AZ
Yah but what would you do for batteries? That is within the realm of normal
affordability that is, not 50K $ lithium packs or some other fantasy. David
Chapman.
Quoting Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> This one might go cheap. I'd keep my eye on it if I wanted it. Lawrence
> Rhodes........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cor van de Water" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 5:53 PM
> Subject: 1991 G-Van on Ebay, in Mesa, AZ
>
>
> > 9 passenger GMC van.
> >
> > Pulled batteries, they were a bit BbbbBbbBBbbb-ulging....
> > Spare drive motor, 216V DC system, factory conversion.
> >
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQitemZ160009412802QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
>
-------------------------------------------------
FastQ Communications
Providing Innovative Internet Solutions Since 1993
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is a great idea!
On Jul 19, 2006, at 5:32 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
- 2" diameter round PC board, to fit on the back of the E-meter.
- Connects to the E-meter's terminal block with 8 pins (and the
9-pin D connector if your E-meter has the serial port option).
- Has a DC/DC converter to power the E-meter from your 12v system.
(9-18vdc input, 1000v isolated 15vdc output).
- Isolated RS-232 9-pin D connector output, swings a full +/-10v to
work with any laptop. Does not use the handshake lines or funny
software to power it.
- Jumper-selectable 100v or 500v prescaler.
- Separate connectors for Pack+ (1-pin), Shunt (3-pin), +12v power
(2-pin), temperature sensor (2-pin), and alarm relay (2-pin).
- Fuses so you won't blow up the E-meter if you hook it up wrong.
The Companion board can be used by itself; it doesn't require the
other two boards (micro board and display board).
I want separate non-interchangeable connectors to avoid mixing
isolated and "hot" signals. Also, putting the Pack+ in its own
connector eliminates most of the wiring errors that would blow
something up. The Temperature and Alarm connectors are separate
because most E-meters do not have these options installed.
For interested parties:
1. What kind of connectors would you like to see?
I don't have an answer for the temp and alarm function connections
(never used them.) I do have an inexpensive idea for the 1, (other) 2,
and 3 pin connections if you can make these polarized 2 pin and 4 pin
connections (perhaps a jumper to disconnect the pack + from the
e-meter.) I recommend the Molex SL connectors. These parts are easily
available from Mouser (no minimum order) and the female pins can be
easily crimped (wire and insulation) with a cheap (Radio Shack in my
case) D-sub crimper.
I used the 90 degree board mount 2 pin female connector to hook up John
Lussmeyer's battery monitor to isolated 12v power (supplied by a tiny
$9 ea. C&D 3/4 watt DC>DC.) I would recommend you use the strait
instead of "turned" female connectors on your board. The part numbers I
used are (description, Mouser P/N, Molex P/N; next item...): Female pin
board connector, 538-70555-0071, 70555-0071; plug to accept male pins,
538-50-57-9402, 50-57-9402; gold plated male pins , 571-5551651,
555165-1.
2. Should the connectors be on the board itself,
or wire leads to off-board connectors?
I would think that putting connectors on your board is better. I
started with the e-meter it in my dash. I quickly learned I wanted a
better way to "catch it" at a glance. I mounted it on top of the dash
using one of the stock speaker screws. Making this installation neat
requires a single cable to come out of the back of a 2 inch gauge
housing (a NAPA part, they have one that fits the E-meter nicely.) If
the gauge is mounted *in* the dash both work equally well. Wires
soldered to a PC board and leaving without proper strain relief scare
me though...
3. Other questions or comments?
From what I understand there are only 2 e-meters now. The 500a without
the EV filter and the 500a with serial connection that includes the EV
filter. Could the EV filter circuit be included?
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess I have to say a little bit about the Tesla myself. It sure looks
great and the specs are promising. But - comparing it with a Porsche seems
to be a bit pretentious.
I would rather buy a Porsche for the money and here is why:
Porsche is well-known brand and they built desirable cars, they are known
for their technology, safety and they have an impressive record, on the
race track (16 times Le Mans Champion and others) as well as on the road.
I have Porsche repair facilities in every bigger city. Porsche has a known
value and is easy to sell on the used car market. We had quite a few
Porsches (928, Speedsters, 911 Convertibles and -Turbos) and still own my
favourite, a 968 convertible.
While I hope that Tesla will have the commercial success it is looking
for, I would rather invest into a comapny that is adressing a $35,000
market. Though I know that it is difficult (impossible?) to build a
vehicle with decent specs and keep it cheap. And no - I am not talking
adanved DC and floodies ;)
Michaela
>
> What do you mane when referring to pay back period??
>
> Pay back complete cost of car --> $80,000
>
> or
>
> Pay back incremental cost of electric vs similar gas model, if this is so
> then compare for example;
>
> from cc.porsche.com
>
> 2006/7 Porsche 911 Carrera Cabriolet
> Rear-wheel drive,
> Rear engine, 3.6 l.
> 6 cylinders
> Torque 273 ft lb. @ 4,250 rpm
> 325 hp (SAE) @ 6,800 rpm
>
> 0-60 mph: 5.0 sec
> Top Track Speed: 177 mph
>
> $ 81,400
>
> Hmmm... seems to me at $80,000 the Tesla has already paid back, and the
> Porsche pig only gets 27mpg.
>
> Do I work for Tesla? No.
> Will I buy one? Not on my salary. But then again I won't buy a new Porsche
> either. Let me know if you decide to sell
> *YOUR* EV. ;-)
>
>
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> "Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left
> untreated, it develops into Arrogance, which is often
> fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
>
> Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
> send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
>
>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 2:46 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: Tesla Motors unveiled
>>
>> $80,000 isn't too bad for a car that could last about 15 year-30 years
>> will
>> about as much maintenance as a house needs.
>>
>> depends on life time of Li-Ion.
>> pay back period if you consider gas cost at $3/gal and electricity cost,
>> is
>> probably near 20 years.
>>
>> I'll choose my $5,500 used conversion with 50 mile range and 0-60 in 1
>> minute thank you very much
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some great hi-res photos here-
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/20/tesla-roadster-unveiling-in-santa-monica/
...
Roy LeMeur
Olympia, WA
My EV and RE Project Pages-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Mark Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lock:
> .......Fwd: African Cats Offers First Fossil Fuel-Free Catamaran
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "lockhughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> This subject is the title for a copy of a press release received
> from African Cats BV, dated June 16,2006, and posted on the EVWorld
> website here:
> http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=12205
> or tinyURL here:
> http://tinyurl.com/rwrjs
> .............
>
> Press releases are not always completely accurate.
Agree Mark!
>Solomon
> Technologies has
> had their motor/generator/controller units in cats for a number of
> years
> (5?)
> http://www.solomontechnologies.com/multihull.htm
> from 2004:
> http://www.solomontechnologies.com/privilage_becomes.htm
> Granted, the Privilège did carry fossil fuels for its supplemental
> genset.
> Mark
Hehe. Ya. Know about Solomon. If interested, here is a tread from 2002:
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=676&highlight=Solomon
or tinyURL:
http://tinyurl.com/hnj64
It's just nice to see some competition
Lock
Toronto
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I vote metripak. Smaller, less proprietary and there is an industrial
versioning that gives you early or late contacts.
Since you would probably provide the connector and either the mate with
pins for people with a crimper or the mate pre-wired with a 2foot
colored harness for people without the crimper, End User availability
may be a non issue. Kinda like that stereo connector that came with the
Alpine.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 20, 2006, at 1:05 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The options are:
1 I have nothing (use flooded)
2 I have nothing (use advanced PbA or other)
3 I monitor each battery, no action
4 I burn off (shunt/resistor) extra charge based on voltage.
5 I shuttle extra charge around batteries
Ya missed the option of, "I have individual chargers (or individual
finish chargers)"
I don't fit into any of the defined catagories, but I do actively
manage charging to prevent harm to my AGM pack. I finish charge with a
10 bank Deltran charger. [its on bulk charge right now!]
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Let me augment this to a 1 foot leader ending in a metripak connector
with provided mate, Either a bare connector with crimps or itself a
precrimped and colored 2 feet harness.
This way I can thread it thru a 2" round hole and then reach under and
plug the pre-wired and verified with voltmeter plug.
This also creates an interface standard, The Lee Hart E-meter Campanion
I/O connector. :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee & Otmar (starting with "Gee")
on a separate topic. You seem capable to build a customized emeter and
market it through one of the Evparts outfits?
Capable is one thing, having time is another.
Still swamped here, hoping to enter the last months worth of orders
in the book at least. Then maybe I can get back to building
controllers.
--
-Otmar-
914 EV, California Poppy,
http://evcl.com/914/
http://www.CafeElectric.com/
The Zilla factory has moved to Corvallis Oregon.
Now accepting resumes. Please see:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/jobs.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
- Separate connectors for Pack+ (1-pin), Shunt (3-pin), +12v power
(2-pin), temperature sensor (2-pin), and alarm relay (2-pin).
Doug Weathers wrote:
Why not a single (keyed) connector with ten pins? That would make
it simple to disconnect, and make it easier to manage the wires in
the dashboard. Like the Molex Mini-Fit Jr.
I'm worried that this mixes pack+, pack-, +12v, and chassis ground all
in the same connector. That is an accident waiting to happen!
With several connectors, I can separate signals that need to be isolated
from each other, or are at vastly different voltages. I can group them
according to where they need to go.
+12v and ground should be in their own connector; one that can't be
interchanged with the ones that connect to the propulsion pack.
Pack+ is at a very high voltage compared to all the rest (up to 500v
from pack-, 1500v from chassis and +12v). So, I'm thinking it should be
in its own 1-pin connector.
The 3 wires to the shunt all go the same place, and are at the same
voltage. They should be kept together to minimize noise pickup on the
sensitive shunt wires. So, I'm thinking a 3-wire connector, with a
shielded cable to run between it and the shunt.
The temperature sensor and alarm relay wires are low priority; I suspect
that not one E-meter in 100 uses them. When used, they go to completely
different places than the other wires. So rather than require a bigger
connector for all the users that don't need them, I'd put them in
separate connectors.
Is there a correct order for connecting/disconnecting these?
Not really. The two shunt wires are the ones that cause people the most
grief. Mixing them up with any other wires is likely to blow the
E-meter! Other than that, I think grounding the RS-232 port is the other
big killer.
Here's your chance to establish a standard!
Probably not. Seeing the wide range of opinions, right now I'm tempted
to use wire leads on the board, and put some kind of connectors at the
ends of each grouping. People can then use them, or cut them off to
replace them with whatever they favor.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Charles , Don't beat your self up over this , stuff happens , you cant do
everything , stuff is going to happen , . Well , back to work on pauls motor
plate , said I'd be down last week said I'd be down yester day , and now I'm
saying tomorrow.
Must be something about ev's its always tomorrow.
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Whalen" <
I owe a sincere apology to all the members of the Electric Vehicle
Association of Washington DC who stood around Garfield Circle in front of
the Botanical Gardens for 5 hours today, in 98 degree heat and 95%
humidity,
waiting in vain for Vectrix to show up with its electric maxi-scooter to
give rides. Guys, I am truly very sorry for this. I've got egg all over
my
face and have suffered a terrible loss of credibility today. In addition
to
that, I offer my sincerest apologies to Dave Goldstein, who forwarded my
message announcing this event to 150 EV enthusiasts in the DC area, for
making him look bad and calling his reputation and credibility into
question. The fault and culpability for this terrible embarassment and
screw-up lies squarely with me.
Jim Plagenhoef, Vectrix's North American Sales Manager, informed me about
this event 10 days ago and asked if I would be interested in coming and
checking out the final production version of the bikes, which I haven't
yet
seen, and take it for a ride, as I have a home in the DC area. Later that
same day, July 10, I went to the website for this event
(www.sentech.org/usfcc_cfce2006/main.htm) to check out the details. On
that
day, July 10, the website had the Ride & Drive event scheduled to be in
the
exact same location where it has always been at this annual event over the
last two years -- at Garfield Circle in front of the Botanical Gardens
just
off of Independence Ave. at the bottom of Capitol Hill. Between July 10
and
July 17, I wrote Jim Plagenhoef not one but two emails asking him each
time
to confirm the specific time and location details for the Ride & Drive
event, and both times he wrote me back confirming that indeed it would be
at
Garfield Circle between 9am and 2pm on Thursday July 20. Jim then called
me
yesterday afternoon (Wednesday July 19) as he was rolling into Washington
to
ask if I was there. I told him no, I couldn't make it up to DC but that I
had passed along the info to the EV community and wished him a good event
and a good turnout.
Well, I have no idea when this happened, but sometime between July 10
(when
I *carefully* read the event website) and this morning, the event
organizers
in the US Congress decided to change the location of the Ride & Drive
event
from Garfield Circle to all the way up to the top of Capitol Hill just
outside the Cannon House Office Building, on New Jersey Ave. SE between C
&
D Streets. And indeed that is what the event website -- which I just now
checked for the first time since July 10 -- says. Jim Plagenhoef
apparently
just found out about the change of venue early this morning from the event
organizers but failed to notify me, not remembering -- with everything
else
on his mind for the day, and me being far away in Florida -- that I had
informed the entire EV community about this event based on the prior
location information.
I just got this understandbly irate email from Dave Goldstein with utter
bewilderment and dismay about what happened and being stood up by the
Vectrix no-show. I immediately called Jim Plagenhoef on his cell phone to
ask what the hell happened and why he never showed up with the bike, and
that Vectrix now looks like absolute cr*p in the entire EV community. Jim
immediately realized the breakdown in communications with the last-minute
change of venue and apologized profusely. He told me that he gave over 60
test rides on the Vectrix bike today, including many Congressmen and
Senators, which is a big improvement over previous years when few
Congressmen and Senators were willing to walk all the way down the hill to
Garfield Circle for the Ride & Drive. And apparently that is exactly why
the event organizers made the last-minute change of venue, for exactly
that
reason -- to make it more accessible to and convenient for busy
Congressmen
and Senators. So I told Jim -- well that sure won't do Vectrix much good
because you've now got 30 Congressmen and Senators who took the bike for a
ride today but who will probably never buy one nor ever tell anyone else
about it, all the while that you had 7 or 8 hard-core, passionate,
committed
EV enthusiasts standing in 98 degree heat and 95% humidity down at the
bottom of the hill waiting for 5 hours for you to show up, some of whom
might have bought the bike and all of whom would have told other EVers
across the region and country about it. Jim felt very bad about what a
terrible screw-up this was and even worse personally for all the EVA/DC
members who waited 5 hours in the heat in vain for Vectrix to show up.
This is so unfortunate because it just goes to reinforce the terrible
image
that EV start-up OEM-wannabees have within the EV community as being
nothing
but "vaporware" hypsters and scammers. Meanwhile, at almost the exact
same
time, separated by only a few hours, Tesla had a fantastic, blow-out
unveiling last night, which of course I am very happy to hear about. At
least *one* EV OEM has got its act together. Tesla sure makes Vectrix
look
absolutely incompetent by comparison.
Once again, to all of you EVA/DC members and EV enthusiasts in the
Washington area who took time out of your busy schedules today to go and
check out what had been advertised as a Vectrix Ride & Drive event at
Garfield Circle, I offer my sincerest apologies and am very sorry for the
breakdown in communications that resulted in you having spent 5 hours
waiting in vain in the heat and humidity. I take full responsibility for
this inexcusable, disgraceful screw-up. I had hoped to come and join you
at
one of your monthly meetings sometime soon when I'm in town, but it will
now
be hard for me to show my face with all the egg I've got on it.
Regretfully and respectfully,
Charles Whalen
Delray Beach, FL
P.S. I asked Jim to please call Dave Goldstein immediately and offer him
an
apology, explain what happened, and try to find some way to make it up to
him and the members of the EVA/DC and the entire EV community in the DC
area. Jim did call Dave and accomplished the first two of those things,
from what he told me, but he has obviously not yet done the third, which
is
the most important, other than with (at-present) non-date-specific
promises
of a future event for the EVA/DC. I emphasized to Jim that he'd better
make
it a priority to do something for the EVA/DC *soon* and make things right
with them because people aren't going to forget this for a long time and
it
will leave a lot of bad feelings about Vectrix within the EV community.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Goldstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 3:27 PM
Subject: What Happened?!! -- Vectrix "No Show" in DC
Charles,
Several of our members went down to the Botanical Gardens
at the foot of Capitol Hill between 9:30 and 2 today (7/20) but
found no scooters anywhere in the vicinity. WHAT HAPPENED?!!
I forwarded your note to more than 150 EV enthusiasts in our
area, and both your and my reputations are now hanging in the
balance.
Who is the Vectrix contact in charge of this demo and what is
his/her cell phone #, please?
Are these scooters -- including the fuel cell model -- truly available?
What are the prices please?
Regards,
Dave
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:11:16 -0400 "Charles Whalen"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Vectrix (www.vectrixusa.com) will be offering test rides of its
electric maxi-scooter in Washington, DC tomorrow, July 20,
from 9am to 2pm at Garfield Circle, in front of the Botanical
Gardens, just off Independence Ave. at the bottom (west side)
of Capitol Hill. Congressmen, Senators, and their staffs will
be among those taking test rides, but the event is open to
the public and all are welcome to take the bike for a ride
(although strictly speaking, legally you're supposed to have a
motorcycle license to ride it). I am told that the bike Vectrix
will be bringing to DC tomorrow is one of the 50 final
production version bikes that just rolled off the assembly
line last month in Vectrix's Massachusetts factory, not one
of the 18 earlier hand-built prototype bikes of various
iterations built between 2001 and 2005 that some of you
have previously ridden at EDTA, EVS, and Clean Cities
conferences as well as some local EAA chapter meetings.
Range testing on the 50 final production version bikes has
apparently surpassed earlier expectations from what I've heard,
achieving around 55 miles at 40-50 mph in mixed driving with
stop and goes, quick acceleration, and up and down hills. Top
speed is controller limited to 63 mph.
If you're in the Washington, DC area but can't make it down to
Capitol Hill tomorrow, I plan to stop at my Maryland home
just outside DC for about a week in the fall when I pick up my
Vectrix bike at the Massachusetts factory and would be glad to
hook up with EVers in the DC area and let folks take it for
extended test rides. I might also be able to make a few other
stops along the east coast on my way down to Florida, if others
are interested in taking the bike for a ride.
Just to reiterate a valid point previously discussed on the list,
this is a maxi-scooter (similar to a Suzuki Burgman 400 or
650), *not* a sport bike. If you're looking for an electric sport
bike, you should look elsewhere.
Charles Whalen
Delray Beach, FL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
My only other thought on this issue is the depth of the Emeter.
If someone were trying to fit an emeter in a tight spot, making it
even deeper might be an issue.
That's a point in favor of wire leads to off-board connectors.
I don't have the RS-232 version of the E-meter. Would the RS-232
off the companion card be of any use to me?
Possibly. The DC/DC on the Companion has an on/off control input. I'm
thinking of using the RS-232 serial data input line to turn it off. The
E-meter ignores all serial data received, but there might be reasons why
you want to reset the E-meter or save power.
You might also want to wire the two pushbuttons on the E-meter's front
panel to the serial connector, so you can control these buttons
remotely. But this will require "hacking" inside the E-meter.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, the other day I finally got the truck titled, registered and
everything. So I decided it was time to take it out on a little test drive.
The S10 ran like a champ. Plenty of power though I was keeping it below
150 amps. So smooth, so quick, so *BIG*
Then I turned for home and suddenly there was no power. Drat.
Pulled over. I was able to make the car creep, but anything else would
cause a massive *shudder* from the drive train. Sounded like something
was broken. Great.
This evening I pulled the drive shaft and it looks like one of the 4
points on the U joint had damaged needle bearings. As in half of them
were not there. Maybe that did it, I hope so.
The only question is what kind of U joint do I need? Since it's a
US_Electricar it's any guess as to the original motor type, cab type, or
whatever. Any way to find out based on either the numbers on the U joint
itself, or the number on the tube?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone says it costs about 2Billion to set up a car line and I say,
Sure, If you continue to do it the same way it has been done.
Also There are more people who will buy a 25K car than 80K car. Although
the battery cost tends to push the manufactures to that magic number. I
think we really need someone to start a new type of car company, an
electric car company that breaks the mold. With about 220Million to
produce 30,000 vehicles in the first lot. Maybe Tesla(love their logo,
btw) will make enough to make the jump.
If they could be sold for 25K and 7.5K was used to pay off the
220Million, At those quantities the motors,controllers and batteries and
bms should be at most 1/2 of what we are accustom to now. The trick is
to get past the hump and not to build something with 1000 assembled pieces.
I was playing with an idea that would take 55 employees and a 25,000
sqft building to produce 30,000 / year. This is about 8 cars an hour on
2 shift operation. Since the cure time is over 10 min, this is multiple
molds.
I have since thought about how I can scale this back to just me and a
team of prospective car owners that can get together on weekends and run
small batches. The main issue is the primary chassis tooling, but
perhaps wood will suffice at this lower volume.
Since I don't think I will be able to secure financing I outline the
design ideas here.
The method of construction I am considering is to injection mold
PolyPro blocks for thru monting points
On a lightweight core, mold the Foam in 1.5" wide strips
On the main tool, A mixture of specifically oriented S-glass,Kevlar,
and carbon fiber is cut and wrapped on 3 piece core.
The PP blocks are loaded and the foam strips are wrapped in roving and
loaded
The outer layers are wrapped and the tool is closed.
A vacuum is drawn and resin is mixed with catalyst and sucked/injected
in.
This modified SCRIMP process makes a single piece chassis that
everything else is connected too. The Wrapped slices of foam create a
3Dimensional strucure that resists whole scaled delamination during
crashes.
In a significant wreck, it is REPLACED, not repaired. New philosophy.
Since the Chassis is a one shot < 1/2 hour item The cost of that one
single part(before paint) should be manageable. (They wanted $3800 to
fix one hood and fender on my car anyway.)
I think this is a natural extension to the Sunrise. No plastic trim
interior, no head liner(maybe), The structural part of the doors is
about 1" thick with the 1" thick door jamb sides and bottom forming a 3"
deep box to house the window, crank mechanism and the non-structural and
easily servicable door interior. The outer 1" thick has a rib accent
that is made by extra layers on composite to create a side door beam
that redirects forces.
Think how quiet and well insulated a composite car with foam core that
runs electric could be, great acoustics too.
The Whole Idea is an Open Source design with all info avail to allow
after market and solicit responses. And eventually Commodity pricing as
well as costing. (keeps a manufacture honest) Parts sold will be no more
than twice the cost of buying assembled vehicle, goal is to be the
same. Even Within the car a standard is desired. The motor and
suspension are one subassembly dropping thru a hole and bolting around
the flange. 2 parts change to make it not steerable in back. You can run
a blank motor carrier in back and buy 1 motor and 1 battery pack for 50
mile range boring performance. Or Buy a second motor AT ANY TIME and
install it. Buy a second battery pack for extended range. The hatchback
opening can be fitted with 1 of 3 options, notchback(think fiero GT),
hatchback (think ole mustang II, 300zx, etc., And boxback(think Honda
civic si, or VW boxback) These all close down on a tailgate that looks
like a saturn SL2 back end. It's tail lights along the top edge are
visible if someone is unloadeing through a lens on the top edge.
Another poll
Am I naive
Am I Crazy
Do I have something?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
Try the VIN - lookup the type of car, no doubt is was the most basic 4-cyl
version.
In addition, the glove compartment has a sticker in the bottom with a list
of codes.
Each code specifies which variant of a part on the car was used to build it.
In my case creeping at 1 or 2 mph max was caused by loss of RPM encoding.
I do not see why half missing U-joints could make a massive shudder at low
speed,
but I am not a mechanic.
Please check the drive shaft and entire drive-train for other issues, such
as torn
rubber torque couplings inside the shaft.
Success,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
<http://www.cvandewater.com/>
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com <http://www.proxim.com/>
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 5:55 PM
To: [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [uselectricar] Truck runs at last (and is towed home)
Well, the other day I finally got the truck titled, registered and
everything. So I decided it was time to take it out on a little test drive.
The S10 ran like a champ. Plenty of power though I was keeping it below
150 amps. So smooth, so quick, so *BIG*
Then I turned for home and suddenly there was no power. Drat.
Pulled over. I was able to make the car creep, but anything else would
cause a massive *shudder* from the drive train. Sounded like something
was broken. Great.
This evening I pulled the drive shaft and it looks like one of the 4
points on the U joint had damaged needle bearings. As in half of them
were not there. Maybe that did it, I hope so.
The only question is what kind of U joint do I need? Since it's a
US_Electricar it's any guess as to the original motor type, cab type, or
whatever. Any way to find out based on either the numbers on the U joint
itself, or the number on the tube?
Chris
__._,_.___
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
E-meters are so popular because it's the only game in town...
I would love if there was one digital meter that already had all
3 displays all the time with the fuel gauge, had the components
already available for isolation, high voltage...
Despite its eccentricities, the E-meter is a good product at a good
price. It looks easy to do better, but the problem is much harder than
it appears. The E-meter has to accurately measure microvolt-level
signals in the presence of high voltages, currents, and extremely high
noise in an automotive environment. That ain't easy!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > This is so unfortunate because it just goes to reinforce the terrible
> > image
> > that EV start-up OEM-wannabees have within the EV community as being
> > nothing
> > but "vaporware" hypsters and scammers. Meanwhile, at almost the
exact
> > same
> > time, separated by only a few hours, Tesla had a fantastic, blow-out
> > unveiling last night, which of course I am very happy to hear
about. At
> > least *one* EV OEM has got its act together. Tesla sure makes
Vectrix
> > look
> > absolutely incompetent by comparison.
> >
>
Vectrix has been promising a product for several years, so simple
miscommunication becomes self-fulfilling prophecy to the rest of us.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I figure that if we only send it to ourselves, then
nobody gets the message, so I encourage EVeryone in CA
to get the Gov's attention to steer the future to a
better technology instead of Hydrogen derailment.
Message pasted below my sig.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
Hello Governor,
I live in Sunnyvale,CA and I am very interested in your initiatives
to make the cars and trucks clean, as well as to rid ourselves from
the dependence on foreign oil.
Personally I commute to San Jose using an Electric Vehicle and as
the long-range vehicle in the family we have a Prius.
The news I heard from Europe clearly indicates that leading scientists
have proven that the Hydrogen Fuel Cell is not a solution.
Not at this moment and also not in the future.
The reason is that the efficiency will always be much worse than other
technologies. Even burning petrol as we do today is more efficient than
a Hydrogen Fuel Cell, so that technology is clearly a step backwards
for oil dependence and the environment. The best technology is 2 to 4 times
better in its efficiency and it is also already available, so there is no
waiting for future improvements, it is here, today.
In fact, I use it every day to commute to work.
You may be aware that in the SF Bay Area several start-up companies
have unveiled new cars that run entirely on Batteries, they do not
need the intermediate step via Hydrogen to get a high performance
and long range vehicle. Up to 300 miles is available, today.
Battery technology has advanced and will continue to advance, so the
old complaints about EVs do no longer hold.
I like to discuss the reasons why you planned the Hydrogen Highway
and give you background information why it would be very beneficial
to California to convert that plan into a Renewable Highway, which
includes incentives for energy forms that have a future in our
transportation, now Hydrogen has lost its future.
For an authority on Fuel Cells and the background studies why the
European Fuel Cell Forum has dropped their support for Hydrogen,
please go to: http://www.efcf.com/
I trust that you, as the leader of the state, are flexible and
visionary enough to respond to this "inconvenient truth" in a way
that benefits us all, including the environment.
To make sure you see this email, I will ask you the next time that
I see you what your response is to the changes in the knowledge
about Hydrogen Fuel Cells and your stimulation of general availability
for the better technologies that are already proven.
For your information: Last night there was a grand unveiling of
the latest in EVs: the Tesla Motors' Roadster:
http://www.teslamotors.com
Kind Regards,
Cor van de Water
http://evalbum.com/694
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Someone says it costs about 2Billion to set up a car line and I say,
> Sure, If you continue to do it the same way it has been done.
>
> Also There are more people who will buy a 25K car than 80K car. Although
> the battery cost tends to push the manufactures to that magic number. I
> think we really need someone to start a new type of car company, an
> electric car company that breaks the mold. With about 220Million to
> produce 30,000 vehicles in the first lot. Maybe Tesla(love their logo,
> btw) will make enough to make the jump.
>
How long was the Prius produced at a loss? Is Toyota now making a
profit, perhaps a sizeable one? Would any American auto maker do this
(or have the capital to put up with negative cash flow based on what
the public might or might not be attracted to)?
Not many start-ups can be the MicroSoft or Apple of their day, even
less so in the auto industry...
--- End Message ---
