EV Digest 5670
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: My message to Gov. Schwarzenegger about Hydrogen Highway
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: E-meter Companion
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: E-meter Companion
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: What a ride...Comments and Dreams.
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: What Happened?!! -- Vectrix "No Show" in DC
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Tesla Motors unveiled
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Another Ebay scam? - be warned
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Setting up a Car Line, Some really FWD thinking.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: [uselectricar] Truck runs at last (and is towed home)
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: My message to Gov. Schwarzenegger about Hydrogen Highway
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: DC-DC sugestions
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Tesla Motors unveiled
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ah,
Just after sending my email I noticed that JB drove the Governor
around during the unveiling of Tesla's Roadster!
http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/autoblog/hirezpics/IMG_6891.jpg
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Cor van de Water
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 6:38 PM
To: 'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'
Subject: My message to Gov. Schwarzenegger about Hydrogen Highway
I figure that if we only send it to ourselves, then
nobody gets the message, so I encourage EVeryone in CA
to get the Gov's attention to steer the future to a
better technology instead of Hydrogen derailment.
Message pasted below my sig.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
Hello Governor,
I live in Sunnyvale,CA and I am very interested in your initiatives
to make the cars and trucks clean, as well as to rid ourselves from
the dependence on foreign oil.
Personally I commute to San Jose using an Electric Vehicle and as
the long-range vehicle in the family we have a Prius.
The news I heard from Europe clearly indicates that leading scientists
have proven that the Hydrogen Fuel Cell is not a solution.
Not at this moment and also not in the future.
The reason is that the efficiency will always be much worse than other
technologies. Even burning petrol as we do today is more efficient than
a Hydrogen Fuel Cell, so that technology is clearly a step backwards
for oil dependence and the environment. The best technology is 2 to 4 times
better in its efficiency and it is also already available, so there is no
waiting for future improvements, it is here, today.
In fact, I use it every day to commute to work.
You may be aware that in the SF Bay Area several start-up companies
have unveiled new cars that run entirely on Batteries, they do not
need the intermediate step via Hydrogen to get a high performance
and long range vehicle. Up to 300 miles is available, today.
Battery technology has advanced and will continue to advance, so the
old complaints about EVs do no longer hold.
I like to discuss the reasons why you planned the Hydrogen Highway
and give you background information why it would be very beneficial
to California to convert that plan into a Renewable Highway, which
includes incentives for energy forms that have a future in our
transportation, now Hydrogen has lost its future.
For an authority on Fuel Cells and the background studies why the
European Fuel Cell Forum has dropped their support for Hydrogen,
please go to: http://www.efcf.com/
I trust that you, as the leader of the state, are flexible and
visionary enough to respond to this "inconvenient truth" in a way
that benefits us all, including the environment.
To make sure you see this email, I will ask you the next time that
I see you what your response is to the changes in the knowledge
about Hydrogen Fuel Cells and your stimulation of general availability
for the better technologies that are already proven.
For your information: Last night there was a grand unveiling of
the latest in EVs: the Tesla Motors' Roadster:
http://www.teslamotors.com
Kind Regards,
Cor van de Water
http://evalbum.com/694
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee and all,
Lee Hart wrote:
A few months back I started working on a companion board for the E-Meter
(a.k.a. Link-10). The idea was to put the accessories commonly needed
(DC/DC, prescaler, and serial port isolator) on a little board.
Sounds like a great accessory to have around! My biggest gripe about the
E-meters has always been that they don't include the needed accessories
to make them work reliably, and that they generally aren't
"idiot-proofed" enough.
For interested parties:
1. What kind of connectors would you like to see?
If the connectors are on-board, then I'd have to add a second vote for
the Molex SL connectors mentioned by Paul G. They seem like a good
candidate because they are small, inexpensive, have a positive latch,
and can be surface mounted if need be.
If the connectors are off-board, I think the previously mentioned
Weatherpack connectors are a good option. Their availability shouldn't
be a problem because NAPA auto parts stores and Waytekwire.com carry
them. I've got a lot of them in my Jeep because they were used stock for
most of the connections in the vehicle, and seem like good connectors.
The biggest downside to them is they're kind of large. Also, I don't
understand Jeff Shanab's comment regarding the Metripack connectors
being less proprietary then the Weatherpacks? They look very similar in
form and function and are available at the same sources... unless I'm
missing something here?
2. Should the connectors be on the board itself,
or wire leads to off-board connectors?
IMHO, it would be much better having the connectors on the board if
possible. I think it makes for a cleaner install overall, and I'd also
be very concerned about having wires coming off a PCB without lots of
strain relief (and how would that effect space consumption behind the
board?)... after all we are talking about a high vibration environment.
--
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://go.DriveEV.com/
http://www.ACEAA.org/
--------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great idea Lee! For connectors, I would go with the pigtail idea
with separate connectors for the various feeds, shunt, 12 volts
ect. As for what kind of connectors, why not just include the
matching connectors with the unit? Function wise, it sounds like you
have it fairly well covered. I am concerned about the depth issue, I
have my E-meter mounted in an A-pillar pod and there just isn't
enough room to do it right. I need to move it somewhere else. In my
Force I had the E-meter in one of those single gauge "frog eye"
holders on top of the dash. This worked well be depth was still a
concern. Maybe someone with access to a vacuum forming setup might
want to make some extra deep pods for E-meters. Alternatively,
perhaps all the is needed is a hood/sleeve that fits over the E-meter
allowing it to protrude some from the gauge holder and still be
secure and profession looking.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob,
They are located on the SF Peninsula, between San Jose
and San Francisco, along 101 Freeway:
> Tesla Motors
> 1050 Bing Street
> San Carlos, CA 94070
> 650.413.4000 Fax: 650.413.4099
http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=1050+bing&csz=San+carlos+CA
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bob Rice
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 2:13 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: What a ride...Comments and Dreams.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 2:01 PM
Subject: What a ride...
> I went to the press event with Chris Paine last night
> for the Teslamobile. We were some of the few who got
> the high speed ride before the police made them slow
> down. The car is fast. Not Gone Postal fast but fast
> none the less. The battery box is a big closed
> aluminum box. It's about a thousand pounds total. The
> box, BMS and the cells. The cells look like fat AA's
> The motor looks to be about the size of an impulse 8
> or a smidge less. The thing turns 14,000 rpm and has a
> two speed electronic gearbox. Top speed in first
> 68mph. the
>
> They were selling the cars at the event.... just sign
> up and put down a deposit, how much of a deposit do
> you ask? 100%....
>
>
>
> Gadget
>
> Hi EVerybody;
Just looked at the Tesla Roadster. Beautiful, I'll take two, one for each
foot!Ha Ha! OK back to reality, a bit pricy, for me, but for guyz like Jay
Leno, who has the means to support his hobby, and other celebs. Whatthehell
80k, only a few more bux than a full dress Hummer, Porsche,or Escalade. 80k
isn't that bad? You can have my place in line<g>! The Pix LOOKS like a real
car. Is it real? A prototype I can actually MEET on my Portland Pilgrimage,
like if I drop in a Tesla Motors?? I WILL ask for a spin, though, if I
do.They are in CA, Somewhere? I can find them. I found Phoenix Motors and AC
Propulsion LAST year's trip.To see, drive Tesla, would be worth the several
hundred bux I'm gunna burn up to come to the Left Coast. Compared with the
Fetish, the Tesla is a bargain! I like the Red one, but the green one was
nice, too. I don't givashit about color. Just get it OUT there!
And if it is a success? I don't see how it could NOT be? What a great
name, to honor Nicola Tesla, in this way. This guy NEVER got his just due.
An AC motor should be a Tesla Motor, sorta like a Diesel Engine, Rudolph
Diesel.the name game. When I get the time machine going ,I'll run back and
pick up Nicola, and take him for a spin in the Roadster, and a White Zombie
ride, too.He'd get a kick out of PIR Woodburn, too.We'd do the whole EV
circuit.
Comments; What do ya mean "not Gone Postal" fast? Hell, Teslamobile
would be White Zombie fast, run rings around GP. Not fair, racing here? Do
you do your racing in" first" gear?
I would imagine it is electronicly speed controlled to keep people from
burning up all the amps going hyperspeeds and complaning about the range?
So if ya chunk it in "high" you could drive normally, yea! Right? If
ANYBODY could drive normally in that rig? If it will go you GO! Waft away
from the light and see everybody back there in your rear view mirror, and ya
didn't leave most of your tires back there. You are just rapturing in the
glass smooth push ya back in your seat, silent acceleration." Power, vastly
in excess of requirments"To quote Tom Edison about electric locomotives. To
surge up hills, like they wern't there, and NOT have to sweat the pinned
ampmeter. it WILL have a sport rally pack? Volts Amps shown up front? You
won't need top vecro a Palm Pilot to the dash, like a Rav-4? To plugitin,
and know you are getting filled up. Gotta toot the horn to wake up the cat
BEFORE ya drive off.
Gees! I should write their ads<g>!My thoughts IF the Teslamobile sells
well, they might build some plain vanilla stuff for the Rest of Us, fill the
gap left by the EV-1 murder, the EV-1 drivers in severe withdrawl
syndrome?Hope Chris Paine ordered one, from the profits of his movie. I
can't think of a more deserving guy! Run it at PIR against JW and the
Zombie<g>!
Fantesy mode off ,now
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Charles,
Don't beat yourself up over this. You can't be held accountable for
other people changing schedules or locations at the last minute (or
rather the last 10 ten days) and you not being notified or even
getting wind of a change taking place. These things happen all the time.
This exact same thing happened at our recent NEDRA Power of DC. In
December I called the track and we agreed to have the race on a
Saturday in June. But three months before the event the track changed
our race date from Saturday to Sunday without notifying me of the
change!! Bryan Murtha noticed the discrepency when he visited their
website one day. Could you imagine if we showed up on Saturday or if
Bryan never ventured across the website that day?
And remember our good friends Matt, Shawn and Lowell traveling all
the way from Florida to the High Voltage Nationals in Chicago only to
be told the race is cancelled because of the weather? Same with John
Wayland, Jim and Father Time coming all the way out from Oregon.
So this stuff happens to everyone who's involved in scheduling events
and attending them. And it makes it even more difficult when you are
assisting from out of town and don't have easy access to what is
happening up here.
Don't let this deter you from visiting us when you visit in the fall.
I'll keep my eggs at home.
You were completely left out of the loop on this one.
Chip
On Jul 20, 2006, at 5:41 PM, Charles Whalen wrote:
I owe a sincere apology to all the members of the Electric Vehicle
Association of Washington DC who stood around Garfield Circle in
front of
the Botanical Gardens for 5 hours today, in 98 degree heat and 95%
humidity,
waiting in vain for Vectrix to show up with its electric maxi-
scooter to
give rides. Guys, I am truly very sorry for this. I've got egg
all over my
face and have suffered a terrible loss of credibility today. In
addition to
that, I offer my sincerest apologies to Dave Goldstein, who
forwarded my
message announcing this event to 150 EV enthusiasts in the DC area,
for
making him look bad and calling his reputation and credibility into
question. The fault and culpability for this terrible embarassment
and
screw-up lies squarely with me.
Jim Plagenhoef, Vectrix's North American Sales Manager, informed me
about
this event 10 days ago and asked if I would be interested in coming
and
checking out the final production version of the bikes, which I
haven't yet
seen, and take it for a ride, as I have a home in the DC area.
Later that
same day, July 10, I went to the website for this event
(www.sentech.org/usfcc_cfce2006/main.htm) to check out the
details. On that
day, July 10, the website had the Ride & Drive event scheduled to
be in the
exact same location where it has always been at this annual event
over the
last two years -- at Garfield Circle in front of the Botanical
Gardens just
off of Independence Ave. at the bottom of Capitol Hill. Between
July 10 and
July 17, I wrote Jim Plagenhoef not one but two emails asking him
each time
to confirm the specific time and location details for the Ride & Drive
event, and both times he wrote me back confirming that indeed it
would be at
Garfield Circle between 9am and 2pm on Thursday July 20. Jim then
called me
yesterday afternoon (Wednesday July 19) as he was rolling into
Washington to
ask if I was there. I told him no, I couldn't make it up to DC but
that I
had passed along the info to the EV community and wished him a good
event
and a good turnout.
Well, I have no idea when this happened, but sometime between July
10 (when
I *carefully* read the event website) and this morning, the event
organizers
in the US Congress decided to change the location of the Ride &
Drive event
from Garfield Circle to all the way up to the top of Capitol Hill just
outside the Cannon House Office Building, on New Jersey Ave. SE
between C &
D Streets. And indeed that is what the event website -- which I
just now
checked for the first time since July 10 -- says. Jim Plagenhoef
apparently
just found out about the change of venue early this morning from
the event
organizers but failed to notify me, not remembering -- with
everything else
on his mind for the day, and me being far away in Florida -- that I
had
informed the entire EV community about this event based on the prior
location information.
I just got this understandbly irate email from Dave Goldstein with
utter
bewilderment and dismay about what happened and being stood up by the
Vectrix no-show. I immediately called Jim Plagenhoef on his cell
phone to
ask what the hell happened and why he never showed up with the
bike, and
that Vectrix now looks like absolute cr*p in the entire EV
community. Jim
immediately realized the breakdown in communications with the last-
minute
change of venue and apologized profusely. He told me that he gave
over 60
test rides on the Vectrix bike today, including many Congressmen and
Senators, which is a big improvement over previous years when few
Congressmen and Senators were willing to walk all the way down the
hill to
Garfield Circle for the Ride & Drive. And apparently that is
exactly why
the event organizers made the last-minute change of venue, for
exactly that
reason -- to make it more accessible to and convenient for busy
Congressmen
and Senators. So I told Jim -- well that sure won't do Vectrix
much good
because you've now got 30 Congressmen and Senators who took the
bike for a
ride today but who will probably never buy one nor ever tell anyone
else
about it, all the while that you had 7 or 8 hard-core, passionate,
committed
EV enthusiasts standing in 98 degree heat and 95% humidity down at the
bottom of the hill waiting for 5 hours for you to show up, some of
whom
might have bought the bike and all of whom would have told other EVers
across the region and country about it. Jim felt very bad about
what a
terrible screw-up this was and even worse personally for all the
EVA/DC
members who waited 5 hours in the heat in vain for Vectrix to show up.
This is so unfortunate because it just goes to reinforce the
terrible image
that EV start-up OEM-wannabees have within the EV community as
being nothing
but "vaporware" hypsters and scammers. Meanwhile, at almost the
exact same
time, separated by only a few hours, Tesla had a fantastic, blow-out
unveiling last night, which of course I am very happy to hear
about. At
least *one* EV OEM has got its act together. Tesla sure makes
Vectrix look
absolutely incompetent by comparison.
Once again, to all of you EVA/DC members and EV enthusiasts in the
Washington area who took time out of your busy schedules today to
go and
check out what had been advertised as a Vectrix Ride & Drive event at
Garfield Circle, I offer my sincerest apologies and am very sorry
for the
breakdown in communications that resulted in you having spent 5 hours
waiting in vain in the heat and humidity. I take full
responsibility for
this inexcusable, disgraceful screw-up. I had hoped to come and
join you at
one of your monthly meetings sometime soon when I'm in town, but it
will now
be hard for me to show my face with all the egg I've got on it.
Regretfully and respectfully,
Charles Whalen
Delray Beach, FL
P.S. I asked Jim to please call Dave Goldstein immediately and
offer him an
apology, explain what happened, and try to find some way to make it
up to
him and the members of the EVA/DC and the entire EV community in
the DC
area. Jim did call Dave and accomplished the first two of those
things,
from what he told me, but he has obviously not yet done the third,
which is
the most important, other than with (at-present) non-date-specific
promises
of a future event for the EVA/DC. I emphasized to Jim that he'd
better make
it a priority to do something for the EVA/DC *soon* and make things
right
with them because people aren't going to forget this for a long
time and it
will leave a lot of bad feelings about Vectrix within the EV
community.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Goldstein"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 3:27 PM
Subject: What Happened?!! -- Vectrix "No Show" in DC
Charles,
Several of our members went down to the Botanical Gardens
at the foot of Capitol Hill between 9:30 and 2 today (7/20) but
found no scooters anywhere in the vicinity. WHAT HAPPENED?!!
I forwarded your note to more than 150 EV enthusiasts in our
area, and both your and my reputations are now hanging in the
balance.
Who is the Vectrix contact in charge of this demo and what is
his/her cell phone #, please?
Are these scooters -- including the fuel cell model -- truly
available?
What are the prices please?
Regards,
Dave
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:11:16 -0400 "Charles Whalen"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Vectrix (www.vectrixusa.com) will be offering test rides of its
electric maxi-scooter in Washington, DC tomorrow, July 20,
from 9am to 2pm at Garfield Circle, in front of the Botanical
Gardens, just off Independence Ave. at the bottom (west side)
of Capitol Hill. Congressmen, Senators, and their staffs will
be among those taking test rides, but the event is open to
the public and all are welcome to take the bike for a ride
(although strictly speaking, legally you're supposed to have a
motorcycle license to ride it). I am told that the bike Vectrix
will be bringing to DC tomorrow is one of the 50 final
production version bikes that just rolled off the assembly
line last month in Vectrix's Massachusetts factory, not one
of the 18 earlier hand-built prototype bikes of various
iterations built between 2001 and 2005 that some of you
have previously ridden at EDTA, EVS, and Clean Cities
conferences as well as some local EAA chapter meetings.
Range testing on the 50 final production version bikes has
apparently surpassed earlier expectations from what I've heard,
achieving around 55 miles at 40-50 mph in mixed driving with
stop and goes, quick acceleration, and up and down hills. Top
speed is controller limited to 63 mph.
If you're in the Washington, DC area but can't make it down to
Capitol Hill tomorrow, I plan to stop at my Maryland home
just outside DC for about a week in the fall when I pick up my
Vectrix bike at the Massachusetts factory and would be glad to
hook up with EVers in the DC area and let folks take it for
extended test rides. I might also be able to make a few other
stops along the east coast on my way down to Florida, if others
are interested in taking the bike for a ride.
Just to reiterate a valid point previously discussed on the list,
this is a maxi-scooter (similar to a Suzuki Burgman 400 or
650), *not* a sport bike. If you're looking for an electric sport
bike, you should look elsewhere.
Charles Whalen
Delray Beach, FL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Back in 92 when the first viper came out - the price was very
high--$50,000. No windows just the windshield, many people could not
justify its purchase and complained of all the options it did not have.
Many of us wanted that V10 car that was ready to race, needles to say it
was not in the price range of the average Joe. What it did have was the
MUSCLE that had not been available in a production car in many years (just
Miata clone jelly beans rolling around - yuck). Even if you had $50K the
waiting line was a year long!
What impresses me and what is easy to overlook is that the Tesla Roadster
is the first Production Muscle EV that you can buy!!! I am sure that in a
year or so "we" will find ways to increase the performance and eliminate
any governing features. In other words this car will turn heads because
it is a production car designed to do so. If successful, we may see a
Tesla Roadster race class in the SCCA.
The customers that will buy them can afford to drive them occasionally and
drive them like any other sports car. Actually, they may drive them more
since they aren't like any other sports car.
When I logged in at work today I had 5 emails from non EVers sending me
the link to the Tesla site - wow!
Bottom line - Today it is the best advertisement for EVs we could ask for
- and when the high performance Joe Blow model comes out we will all be
looking and ......justifying.
Jimmy
> From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I guess I have to say a little bit about the Tesla myself. It sure looks
> great and the specs are promising. But - comparing it with a Porsche
> seems to be a bit pretentious. I would rather buy a Porsche for the
money and here is why:
> Porsche is well-known brand and they built desirable cars, they are
> known
> for their technology, safety and they have an impressive record, on the
> race track (16 times Le Mans Champion and others) as well as on the
> road.
> I have Prsche repair facilities in every bigger city. Porsche has a
> known
> value and is easy to sell on the used car market. We had quite a few
> Porsches (928, Speedsters, 911 Convertibles and -Turbos) and still own
> my
> favourite, a 968 convertible.
>
> While I hope that Tesla will have the commercial success it is looking
> for, I would rather invest into a comapny that is adressing a $35,000
> market. Though I know that it is difficult (impossible?) to build a
> vehicle with decent specs and keep it cheap. And no - I am not talking
> adanved DC and floodies ;)
> Michaela
> > What do you mane when referring to pay back period??
> > Pay back complete cost of car --> $80,000
> > or Pay back incremental cost of electric vs similar gas model, if this
> is so then compare for example;
> > from cc.porsche.com
> > 2006/7 Porsche 911 Carrera Cabriolet
> > Rear-wheel drive,
> > Rear engine, 3.6 l.
> > 6 cylinders
> > Torque 273 ft lb. @ 4,250 rpm
> > 325 hp (SAE) @ 6,800 rpm
> > 0-60 mph: 5.0 sec
> > Top Track Speed: 177 mph
> > $ 81,400
> > Hmmm... seems to me at $80,000 the Tesla has already paid back, and
> the Porsche pig only gets 27mpg.
> > Do I work for Tesla? No.
> > Will I buy one? Not on my salary. But then again I won't buy a new
> Porsche
> > either. Let me know if you decide to sell
> > *YOUR* EV. ;-)
> > Stay Charged!
> > Hump
> > "Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left
> > untreated, it develops into Arrogance, which is often
> > fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
> > Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
> > send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Subject: Re: Tesla Motors unveiled
> >> $80,000 isn't too bad for a car that could last about 15 year-30
> years
> >> will
> >> about as much maintenance as a house needs.
> >>
> >> depends on life time of Li-Ion.
> >> pay back period if you consider gas cost at $3/gal and electricity
> cost,
> >> is probably near 20 years.
> >> I'll choose my $5,500 used conversion with 50 mile range and 0-60 in
> 1 minute thank you very much
> > From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> This sucker bought a scheme "how to make money with an Ebook"
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300008413510
> and is now offering his conversion experience for sale....
> Shown are a photo of a contactor controller on a wooden board
> against the firewall, judge the wiring quality to get an idea
> about the quality of the book <ahem>
>
> I have no experience with motor-to-gearbox mounting, but
> I was surprised to see wood shims to center the motor in
> the adapter....
> The brackets look undersized to help anything for
> motor mounting, but again - I am not a professional:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ130008162805QQcmdZViewItem
>
Update - Reply from the seller:
The approach with this project (and its documentation)was to try out a
VARIETY of of MINIMAL tactics to see what could be done and work up
from there. This is not a ''kit'' type project, or a specific part for
a specific result project, but an assortment of ideas tried for
general learning and foundational information about what could be
acheived for the least in all areas; THEN ... how this could be
tweaked with stepped, upgrade options for better all around
performance. The final top speed of the little 2.5 HP motor first used
(often pushed to 7 HP!) was about 45 MPH with an average ''cruising
speed'' of about 30 MPH. Range with the first set of cheap marine
batteries was only about 15 miles. I wind up suggesting a 7 to 12 HP
motor MINIMIMAL and a better grade of 6 volt batteries (for longer
range) to begin with.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jeff,
A design I did was a vehicle made out of magnesium-steel. These are aircraft
temper sheet metal that is just about dent proof. You do not need a press to
form it into any shape you want.
The small Italian design shops use this method. On Monday they think up a
design for a body of a car, and by Friday it is done.
To form a curve fender, door or hood, you lay out the sheet metal, and you cut
wedges out of the metal and than the bend the metal until the wedge cut out
edges touch and heli-arc the metal together with a backing strip.
As the metal is welded, it will start to curve. These shops have many type of
patterns they used to make there body sections.
My design is that the hood sections for the back and front have one long
curved, and the fenders continue this curve out beyond the wheels to a sharp
belt line and than curve back down to the bottom of the wheels.
There will be no wheel well cut outs. The wheels will turn by using double
pivot points, which will keep the wheel from turning out beyond the fender.
You do not have to paint the magnesium-steel. You sand it down to a 3000 grit
with long horizontal patterns. Something like brush stainless steel. It can
be color tone by apply different chemicals to the surface.
To work on the wheels, these fenders, can hinge up. All four fenders have the
same pattern and are interchangable. The doors have the same pattern as the
fender but hinge up in a gull-wing style.
The dash could be a recess type with dash plates, like are use on aircraft.
Each dash plate can be remove separately of the whole sections of dash plates
can be hinge down for access to the rear of the instruments, terminal strips
and wiring.
A tunnel console goes through the length of the car, that houses wire ways for
high voltage, low voltage, control switches, and circuit breaker and fuse
panels, that also has hinge plates for access.
All devices, indicators, meters, can be unplug using the industrial Power
Anderson 15 to 30 amp gangable color code plugs, that can be form to any size
or form in a straight line for a plug in type of terminal strip.
In designing a vehicle from scratch, I would build it to fit existing glass,
hinges, door catches, window operators. Some of these devices can be purchase
from after market manufacturers. I just got done installing Italian electric
window operators and door lock system in my EV and also into a 1975 Chevelle.
I am also installing 2006 Cadillac curve enclose 4 light head light units on my
Manta Mirage. They fit the curve like a glove.
The proto type is going to take a lot of time. I built a wooden mock up of the
panels for my EV, sand them down, prime and paint, and I did not like the way
it look, so I did it all over again and again and again and etc.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Shanab<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 7:07 PM
Subject: Setting up a Car Line, Some really FWD thinking.
Someone says it costs about 2Billion to set up a car line and I say,
Sure, If you continue to do it the same way it has been done.
Also There are more people who will buy a 25K car than 80K car. Although
the battery cost tends to push the manufactures to that magic number. I
think we really need someone to start a new type of car company, an
electric car company that breaks the mold. With about 220Million to
produce 30,000 vehicles in the first lot. Maybe Tesla(love their logo,
btw) will make enough to make the jump.
If they could be sold for 25K and 7.5K was used to pay off the
220Million, At those quantities the motors,controllers and batteries and
bms should be at most 1/2 of what we are accustom to now. The trick is
to get past the hump and not to build something with 1000 assembled pieces.
I was playing with an idea that would take 55 employees and a 25,000
sqft building to produce 30,000 / year. This is about 8 cars an hour on
2 shift operation. Since the cure time is over 10 min, this is multiple
molds.
I have since thought about how I can scale this back to just me and a
team of prospective car owners that can get together on weekends and run
small batches. The main issue is the primary chassis tooling, but
perhaps wood will suffice at this lower volume.
Since I don't think I will be able to secure financing I outline the
design ideas here.
The method of construction I am considering is to injection mold
PolyPro blocks for thru monting points
On a lightweight core, mold the Foam in 1.5" wide strips
On the main tool, A mixture of specifically oriented S-glass,Kevlar,
and carbon fiber is cut and wrapped on 3 piece core.
The PP blocks are loaded and the foam strips are wrapped in roving and
loaded
The outer layers are wrapped and the tool is closed.
A vacuum is drawn and resin is mixed with catalyst and sucked/injected
in.
This modified SCRIMP process makes a single piece chassis that
everything else is connected too. The Wrapped slices of foam create a
3Dimensional strucure that resists whole scaled delamination during
crashes.
In a significant wreck, it is REPLACED, not repaired. New philosophy.
Since the Chassis is a one shot < 1/2 hour item The cost of that one
single part(before paint) should be manageable. (They wanted $3800 to
fix one hood and fender on my car anyway.)
I think this is a natural extension to the Sunrise. No plastic trim
interior, no head liner(maybe), The structural part of the doors is
about 1" thick with the 1" thick door jamb sides and bottom forming a 3"
deep box to house the window, crank mechanism and the non-structural and
easily servicable door interior. The outer 1" thick has a rib accent
that is made by extra layers on composite to create a side door beam
that redirects forces.
Think how quiet and well insulated a composite car with foam core that
runs electric could be, great acoustics too.
The Whole Idea is an Open Source design with all info avail to allow
after market and solicit responses. And eventually Commodity pricing as
well as costing. (keeps a manufacture honest) Parts sold will be no more
than twice the cost of buying assembled vehicle, goal is to be the
same. Even Within the car a standard is desired. The motor and
suspension are one subassembly dropping thru a hole and bolting around
the flange. 2 parts change to make it not steerable in back. You can run
a blank motor carrier in back and buy 1 motor and 1 battery pack for 50
mile range boring performance. Or Buy a second motor AT ANY TIME and
install it. Buy a second battery pack for extended range. The hatchback
opening can be fitted with 1 of 3 options, notchback(think fiero GT),
hatchback (think ole mustang II, 300zx, etc., And boxback(think Honda
civic si, or VW boxback) These all close down on a tailgate that looks
like a saturn SL2 back end. It's tail lights along the top edge are
visible if someone is unloadeing through a lens on the top edge.
Another poll
Am I naive
Am I Crazy
Do I have something?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try the VIN - lookup the type of car, no doubt is was the most basic 4-cyl
version.
*nod* Will do. This might also be a time to go to a genuine Dodge truck
dealer and see if they have it. Might be more $$$, but oddly enough the
local parts places don't seem to have these in stock.
In my case creeping at 1 or 2 mph max was caused by loss of RPM encoding.
I do not see why half missing U-joints could make a massive shudder at low
speed,
but I am not a mechanic.
*nod* I thought it might be that, but the encoder loss is a smooth
slowness. This is like something is letting go under the torque and
causing something big under there to snap and jump.
I'm beginning to think though that it's not these joints. I hope it is,
because if it isn't it's either the rear end diff that's bad or worse,
the transmission. I *REALLY* do not want to drop the whole
motor/transmission assembly.
*sigh* This truck literally has had everything go wrong with it. I'd
really like to get a break at some point...
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
is that...is that an EV Grin on Ahhnolds face? :-O
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Cor van de Water
> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 5:46 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: My message to Gov. Schwarzenegger about Hydrogen Highway
>
>
> Ah,
> Just after sending my email I noticed that JB drove the Governor
> around during the unveiling of Tesla's Roadster!
> http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/autoblog/hirezpics/IMG_6891.jpg
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cor van de Water
> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 6:38 PM
> To: 'ev@listproc.sjsu.edu'
> Subject: My message to Gov. Schwarzenegger about Hydrogen Highway
>
>
> I figure that if we only send it to ourselves, then
> nobody gets the message, so I encourage EVeryone in CA
> to get the Gov's attention to steer the future to a
> better technology instead of Hydrogen derailment.
> Message pasted below my sig.
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> Hello Governor,
> I live in Sunnyvale,CA and I am very interested in your initiatives
> to make the cars and trucks clean, as well as to rid ourselves from
> the dependence on foreign oil.
> Personally I commute to San Jose using an Electric Vehicle and as
> the long-range vehicle in the family we have a Prius.
>
> The news I heard from Europe clearly indicates that leading scientists
> have proven that the Hydrogen Fuel Cell is not a solution.
> Not at this moment and also not in the future.
> The reason is that the efficiency will always be much worse than other
> technologies. Even burning petrol as we do today is more efficient than
> a Hydrogen Fuel Cell, so that technology is clearly a step backwards
> for oil dependence and the environment. The best technology is 2 to 4 times
> better in its efficiency and it is also already available, so there is no
> waiting for future improvements, it is here, today.
> In fact, I use it every day to commute to work.
>
> You may be aware that in the SF Bay Area several start-up companies
> have unveiled new cars that run entirely on Batteries, they do not
> need the intermediate step via Hydrogen to get a high performance
> and long range vehicle. Up to 300 miles is available, today.
> Battery technology has advanced and will continue to advance, so the
> old complaints about EVs do no longer hold.
>
> I like to discuss the reasons why you planned the Hydrogen Highway
> and give you background information why it would be very beneficial
> to California to convert that plan into a Renewable Highway, which
> includes incentives for energy forms that have a future in our
> transportation, now Hydrogen has lost its future.
> For an authority on Fuel Cells and the background studies why the
> European Fuel Cell Forum has dropped their support for Hydrogen,
> please go to: http://www.efcf.com/
>
> I trust that you, as the leader of the state, are flexible and
> visionary enough to respond to this "inconvenient truth" in a way
> that benefits us all, including the environment.
> To make sure you see this email, I will ask you the next time that
> I see you what your response is to the changes in the knowledge
> about Hydrogen Fuel Cells and your stimulation of general availability
> for the better technologies that are already proven.
>
> For your information: Last night there was a grand unveiling of
> the latest in EVs: the Tesla Motors' Roadster:
> http://www.teslamotors.com
>
> Kind Regards,
> Cor van de Water
> http://evalbum.com/694
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I couldn't find any info on the price of the Roadster. Lawrence
Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "nikki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:59 AM
Subject: Re: Tesla Motors unveiled
> Wow.
>
> That's a very beautiful EV. Shame it's so darned expensive!
>
> ;)
>
> Nikki.
>
> ______
>
> The Girl, The Car. The Blog.
> http://www.aminorjourney.co.uk
> ______
> On 20 Jul 2006, at 08:31, Cor van de Water wrote:
>
> > http://www.teslamotors.com
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm using the 120v 55 amp Iota on my 144vdc system. I'm sure the 220 volt
version will be great with the 240v system. Just don't go over the
specified voltages. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: DC-DC sugestions
> I believe Mr. Wilde is using an IOTA as a DC/DC in Gone Postal, without
> any problems.
>
> Grigg. John wrote:
> > Hi all, I been having a streak of bad luck lately. My ICE just
> > committed suicide and then one day later my EV's DC-DC fries.
> >
> > I would like to hear some suggestions on what to replace the dc-dc with.
> > Has anyone used the IOTA DLS-220-55 with a 240v system yet?
> >
> > I have the MR2 power steering system so the 12V load can be a little
> > high.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for any input..
> > John Grigg
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/723
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Those are good points. I think a sports car buyer tends to be more
tolerant of a car that is noisy, rough, or not quite as reliable. It
is ironic the most demanding customer is an economy car buyer. They
expect the car to be cheap yet operate flawlessly with almost no
maintenance. I think Tesla motors is smart to go high-end sports car,
I hope they do well. Hopefully the cost comes down to closer to 2x
the price of an regular car.
--- Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Back in 92 when the first viper came out - the price was very
> high--$50,000. No windows just the windshield, many people could
> not
> justify its purchase and complained of all the options it did not
> have.
> Many of us wanted that V10 car that was ready to race, needles to
> say it
> was not in the price range of the average Joe. What it did have
> was the
> MUSCLE that had not been available in a production car in many
> years (just
> Miata clone jelly beans rolling around - yuck). Even if you had
> $50K the
> waiting line was a year long!
> What impresses me and what is easy to overlook is that the Tesla
> Roadster
> is the first Production Muscle EV that you can buy!!! I am sure
> that in a
> year or so "we" will find ways to increase the performance and
> eliminate
> any governing features. In other words this car will turn heads
> because
> it is a production car designed to do so. If successful, we may
> see a
> Tesla Roadster race class in the SCCA.
> The customers that will buy them can afford to drive them
> occasionally and
> drive them like any other sports car. Actually, they may drive
> them more
> since they aren't like any other sports car.
> When I logged in at work today I had 5 emails from non EVers
> sending me
> the link to the Tesla site - wow!
> Bottom line - Today it is the best advertisement for EVs we could
> ask for
> - and when the high performance Joe Blow model comes out we will
> all be
> looking and ......justifying.
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
