EV Digest 5683
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled (my comments)
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) FAQ - batteries
by Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: WarP 11 in Pickup (was RE: Chelsea Sexton to appear...)
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Tesla Talk, was Re: WashPost Tesla Article
by Jimmy Argon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Clutchless S10
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Ranger EV Battery Modifications
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Ev my suv (getting someone to do it for me)
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Ev my suv (getting someone to do it for me)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Ranger EV Battery Modifications
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Ev my suv (getting someone to do it for me)
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) FW: Ev my suv (getting someone to do it for me)
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) EEStor was Re: EVLN(ex-GEM's join FGC)
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Timing vs RPM's
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Ev my suv (getting someone to do it for me)
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: FAQ - batteries
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Ranger EV Battery Modifications
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Volt meter leakage current (is it possible ?)
by "fortunat mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled (my comments)
by "Kaido Kert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: What if....
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: "Hybrid" Mass Transit (long)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: "Hybrid" Mass Transit (long)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Tesla Motors Performance Comparision
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Steve wrote:
> I am hesistant to respond to this one, but I feel it is necessary, so I
> will and try to keep it short.
> Why aren't people lining up to buy the vehicle in the link?
>
> Simply stated, it does not meet the list of requirements for the common
> man. Great for an EV hobbiest, but not the general public.
> Specifically why?
I agree with this posting. Though the 'needs' of the common man (or woman)
usually are not 'needs' but 'wants'.
When I started with EVs, I thought I needed big batteries and at least 150
Miles range. I am now driving a 144V S-10 and I realized, that I am doing
fine with it, actually I have never yet drained my batteries below 50%
DOD.
I wouldn't really matter to me even IF I would have 50 Miles more range it
wouldn't be enough anyway. 200 Miles of range would be the next step for
me, but that is, for the time being, unobtainium.
What bothers me though is, that we are not really moving along in the EV
field of science. We still use DC without regen, most don't have a/c and
our cars weight as much as a small battle tank.
The few developers concentrate on racing and even the 'professional' EV
people are leaving us 'normal' drivers wondering about ice filled coolers
for a/c while our brakes add to global warming while desperately trying to
convert the kinetic energy of 2 tons of lead into glowing brake discs.
That is very sad.
Now - I am just an EV driver, a common person. I like my EV but I can
understand why Joe Sixpack would rather buy a 3/4 ton pickup truck. Don't
mistake the expression on my face with the 'EV grin' - it's just the sweat
dripping from my forehead burns in my eyes while I am climbing all over my
truck check and to refill water.
I can't wait for some (most likely Asian) company to come out with an
plugin hybrid that has air conditioning, power steering, power windows,
regenerative braking, the works. The EV companies have (had?) their window
of opportunity. But they just continue to convert old cars with old
technology and try to sell it as something 'cool' for a lot of money. I am
sorry guys, you are just copying GMs business practice.
Michaela
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can anyone direct me to a link for a
FAQ on batteries?
(posts from this group are great, but
hard to sort through.)
I'm considering a car that uses 13 Deka 8G27...
I would like to get an idea just how
expensive it would be to buy NiCDs for it.
(and how long would it take, and how hard
would I be banging my head on a wall? :-)
I found SAFT web sites, but they aren't giving pricing
or application-specific advice on the site.
I haven't seen the car yet, but I imagine
the switch to NiCDs will require a new Temperature
Management System.
Thanks
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
I take it then the videos of your burnouts in the Mitsu are with the Z1K?
I'm wondering how your tranny and rear end, if they were stock (2WD? or 4Wd?),
held up to the launches in 3rd gear? I'm more
worried about the tranny with just the 9".
I know of two other 4WD Mitsu pickup skeletons that I've been eyeing. If I
took on the task of building a dragster I'd probably
acquires these for the frames. I like the torsion front springs. You could
get a cowling down below the tops of the tires this
way :-)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
-----Original Message-----
Steve Clunn wrote
That's the one , I was over a Paul's one night and that Lamborghini had a
bad gas motor , we got to talking and worked out a deal , where I'd put my
ev parts in and am part owner :-) I pulled the 11 " out of my green race
truck the Mitsubishi mighty max seen here
http://www.grassrootsev.com/mits.htm and when my 2k zilla gets here that
will go in also. For now It will have to suffer with a 1k.
> Nice!!!
>
> How well did that 11" WarP fit into your Pickup?
>
Very well , the mounting holes for the 9" are the same so I could use the
same adapter plate. Size wise its still smaller that a gas engine .
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Give 'em hell Bob, I'm with you. The Tesla Roadster is the step we have
been waiting for. I have been into EVs since the 70s and seen many, if
this car is successful it will be on merit and real public interest, not
because the guvment forced the car companies to make a half hearted effort
and then find excuses to declare it "unsuccessful". Presently, the
Roadster is the platform to beat in a production car. I for one will be
looking at how they tackled layout and drive train and see how well it
will perform in a road racing environment and I am sure I won't be the
only one.
We are seeing the beginning of a new industry that is born from real needs
and interests, as companies like Tesla do there thing we are buoyed that
much more. Some may find it hard to believe but the day will come when
home builts are rare and most EVs will be production cars, the Tesla
Roadster is the first uncoerced production EV.
Jimmy
-
> > From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Tesla Talk, was Re: WashPost Tesla Article
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> EVerybody's talking about the TeslaMobile, or Lotus Whatever? Seems
> that no matter what somebody comes up with, it will be dissed. I have
> seen alot of shit flow under the bridge in 40 years of EVin'. I sure
> hope the Nay sayers are wrong. The Tesla, IF it is real, looks
> promising, the guys at Tesla seem to have their act together, I
> hope?Car? Smar,! Who cares what kind of CAR. It is the E drivetrain on
> trial here, anyhow. IF they can actuall stuff 250 miles of juice into a
> nice looking car. THATS the issue here. If they were to put that
> driveline in an 82 Rabbit, who would EVen look at it?They made a wise
> choice to show it off in a fancy car. Pull up anywhere in the Red one in
> the Website and heads will turn. Guyz in tricked out Gas rigs will want
> to run ya at the stop light, it LOOKS fast, just standing still.
>
> Yada Yada Yada! I Like it. No I'm not ready to BUY one, anymore than
> A Porsche or Rolls Royce, a VW Phaeton, Now WHATTHEHELL was VW thinking
> when they made those?They were asking more than a mere 80 grand I think.
> And how many did they sell? I'll bet they solved the non heat issue of
> early V-Dubs?But This? How many people actually know what a Lotus Elise
> LOOKS like?Not me. But I'm not into CARS per say, but Electrics. The
> Tesla will be the darling of the Celeb Set, I hope? So and So pulling up
> to the Southhampton Beach Club, in NY , in the summer, with the top
> down. The car will be in the pix, too. It will say" So an' So in his
> Electric Car"THAT'S what I want to hear. Didn't they do that in Plain
> Jane Prei, too? Cruise the Hollywood Blvd in it?Or where EVer the celebs
> hang out on the Left Coast?
>
> All this will put EV's in the common folks minds, AND 4 bux a gal gas.
> It's 3.99 ,at my local inconvenience store, where ya stand in line while
> a simple? lottery transaction takes the full attention of EVERY store
> person, while you STAND forever, wanting to buy a paper., and need
> change. OK that's for Hy Test, Regular is 3. 44 or so. No I don't buy my
> gas there for CARS, a few gal for my mowers and for cleaning stuff,
> paint brushes etc. Damn State should put and pay their OWN people to
> collect this tax for the mathmatically declined! HMHO.
>
> I sure wish Tesla well, that they can pull it off!!! And IF we can
> get the Freedom EV up and going. Now THAT'S a vehicle for the common
> man, no refugees from Google with deep pockets here. A sinple Yahell
> Group web site, as a funding vehicle. I guess I'll be digging out my
> checkbook? Jerry DID post a progress report here. A shamless time to
> come to the aid of your startup EV program. it is a big ocean, out there
> for ALL EV players.Teslas to Freedom's and a few Sparrows in between.
> Now if Renasance Motors could get going again? Throw in a few Smart
> Cars, too. And we haven't given up with the Sunrise! All it takes is
> bux!Maybe if Tesla sells a few more bux will be freed up. Volture,......
> I mean ,Venture Capitalists will come out of the woodwork?
>
> The Movie WKtEC will possably get folks talking and believing. Gees!
> EVen my sons, all gas motorheads, are starting to come around! ASsking
> about EV's more an' more. Well, they haven't asked about a 9 inch motor
> and a glider YET?But they don't roll their eyes and wander when I talk
> EV's anymore. Kid's got an engineless 76 Vette that isn't doing
> anything with. Hmmm, but Vettes are HEAVY, aren't they? Massive frame
> could weld lots of battery wracks aboard.Tell me a Vette would be a poor
> choice for an EV.Or would it? None in the EV Album, yet.
>
> Mt two Tesla's Worth.
>
> Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Clunn wrote:
> They're also thinking that the two strings in parallel
> will stay in balance better that on long 300v string.
No, on the contrary.
Unless they cut the two string loose and charge each separately,
there will be nothing to guarantee that the current will balance
between the two strings, so if there is a thermal imbalance to
begin with, then the hotter string will draw more current, get
even hotter and end up either way over-charged, or hogging all
the charge current and shutting off the charger before the other
string is even close to fully charged.
Two parallel strings without a lot of attention to thermal
and battery management is asking for trouble. The US Electricar
has two strings (each on one side of the drive shaft) and the
experience is that they die an early death; one of the suspects
(thought never more than theory and incidental measurements by
Mike Phillips who had 4 (!) parallel strings and saw one string
always carry multiple times the current of the other strings)
is the parallel switching and lack of thermal management.
Let us know if there are people with more experience - I am
running my US Electricar with one string as the only difference
to other trucks, I do not have BMS or thermal management so the
only difference is the one vs 2 strings. Time will tell...
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Hello Mark,
>
> Looks like someone is more than doubling the cost of the batteries
to you.
>
> The Trojan 8 volts 150 AH T-875 cost $77.25 wholesale price exchange.
>
> Roland
>
Those can't be used. Mark is talking about an OEM Ranger EV, which has
sealed 8V batteries meant to be left to themselves until they die (or
there is a problem with the pack that requires direct access). Blue
Sky Motors did end up swapping out one dying module in mine, but this
is not a job usually tackled by the owner. A ton of batteries are
suspended beneath the frame in a sealed case - I may do the 12v
switch-out when my pack dies, but I get better than 60mi per charge
now (6000mi since purchase <1yr ago), so I have a while before I
figure out how to do the job at home.
You would be totally bored with the lack of owner involvement on this
truck - other than plugging in the Avcon, I've filled the windshield
washer once and checked the tire pressure a few times, that's it (not
including my experiments with aero mods). Other than a vague "power"
meter, there is no true measurement of amps or volts, or what the
system is doing to run everything. We call the truck "the Cicada",
since you hear this slight high-pitched sound when the rear window is
open. An equal weight of lithium would get the truck as far as the ICE
version, and still not need anything fancy from the owner.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an suv I would like to have EV priced out for me. Anyone know of an
established firm that can price this out for me. That has expert experance ?
You can recomend
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where are you located?
Which vehicle is this?
What performance / range do you need?
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 10:16 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Ev my suv (getting someone to do it for me)
I have an suv I would like to have EV priced out for me. Anyone know of an
established firm that can price this out for me. That has expert experance
? You can recomend
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the past, Lee has suggested to "map" the
interconnects inside the 12V battery you want to use
and then drill a tiny hole through the casing into
the interconnect to tap a screw with a small lug and wire
into the interconnect.
Since this only carries BMS current, not motor current
there is no need for a big wire, just keep the BMS happy.
2 x 12V batteries can so be divided in 3x 8V:
8 - 4+4 - 8
If you like to consider using the 110 Ah AGM batteries that
I run in my truck then I can ask the manufacturer to tell
about the interconnects.
Hope this helps.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Death to All Spammers
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 7:45 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Ranger EV Battery Modifications
> Hi out there-------
> Has anyone replaced the 39-8 volt batteries in a Ranger EV with
26-12 Volt
> AGM or Gel batteries yet? Buying "re-manufactured" 8 volt batteries
does
> not seem like a good solution to me. ($5,250) New 8 volt batteries are
> twice as much as used. ($9,000) I can get new 12 volt, equivalent
sized 75
> AH batteries for a little over half the price of the used 8 volt
batteries,
> ($3,100) and save 500# in the process.
> I know the Battery Control Module won't monitor the batteries any
more, but
> so long as the charger still charges, and the little truck still
moves, I
> think it would be worth it.
The truck won't run if the BCM don't all sent the right signals to the
controller. Others have done the 12-to-8v conversion and used a
resistor on each BCM to keep the voltage in range. Don't know the
value, but the Ranger EV list has covered it. Forgot how you join...
> I also want to mount a generator in the truck bed, to greatly extend the
> range.
Don't do it - you'll get comparitively poor mileage. Filling the bed
with a genny means you don't plan on carrying much else, so you might
as well drive a station wagon with better aerodynamics, more efficient
ICE, and tighter pollution controls.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, and welcome to the list!
On Jul 23, 2006, at 11:16 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have an suv I would like to have EV priced out for me. Anyone know
of an established firm that can price this out for me. That has
expert experance ? You can recomend
Where are you located?
Left Coast Conversions is in California.
<http://www.leftcoastconversions.com>
Reverend Gadget is new to the business but definitely knows what he's
doing.
Grass Roots EV is in Florida. <http://www.grassrootsev.com>
Steve's been converting cars for a number of years now. He has a few
of them for sale (no SUVs though).
You might also try Canadian EV, in British Columbia.
<http://www.canev.com>
Randy and co. have converted a number of vehicles for customers, and
sell EV trucks and vans. Very professional. They'll likely be able to
do an SUV for you, although they may be busy with commercial customers.
Finally, check out your local chapter of the Electric Auto Association.
<http://www.eaaev.org/>
You may find someone local who can fix you up.
Don't be surprised if it costs twice as much to convert an SUV as it
does to convert a small, lightweight car. And feel free to ask more
questions. We're here to help.
Hope this helps,
Doug
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Gary,
Your area certainly has several EV'er of big name, I am not
sure that there is a conversion company anywhere near you
but that is what this list is for - to help each other.
One place you may want to ask, because they are
for certain a conversion outfit is Leftcoast Conversions
though they are in South California:
leftcoastconversions.com
Further you can contact Electro Automotive and ask advice:
http://www.electroauto.com/ <http://www.electroauto.com/>
and Cloud EV, now renamed Electric Vehicles USA:
http://www.cloudelectric.com/aboutus.html
<http://www.cloudelectric.com/aboutus.html>
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
<http://www.cvandewater.com/>
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com <http://www.proxim.com/>
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 11:19 PM
Cc: Cor van de Water
Subject: RE: Ev my suv (getting someone to do it for me)
portland oregon
2006 cad escalade
80 a day would be nice or more
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Where are you located?
> Which vehicle is this?
> What performance / range do you need?
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 10:16 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Su bject: Ev my suv (getting someone to do it for me)
>
>
> I have an suv I would like to have EV priced out for me. Anyone know of an
> established firm that can price this out for me. That has expert experance
> ? You can recomend
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lots of good news from FGC recently (production in France, ZENN's in
the UK)...
Thought this mention again about EEStor particularly positive...
Past mentions about EEStor on the EVDL:
http://tinyurl.com/ea2bg
Lots of bux betting on EEStor caps coming to market soon.
:)
Tks
Lock
Toronto
--- bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> EVLN(ex-GEM's join FGC)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=143214
> Feel Good Cars Corporation 'FGC' Continues to Build Momentum:
> Additions to Leadership Team.
>
> TORONTO, ONTARIO -- (MARKET WIRE) -- July 11, 2006 -- FGC has
> added the following strategic members to its leadership
> team;Michael Bergeron,Vice President of Engineering; Sylvain
> Rivet,Director of Procurement and Ghislain Courtois,Director of
> Human Resources and Production Accounting. These individuals
> bring industry and functional expertise to FGC,adding to FGC's
> existing core skills.
>
> Michael Bergeron Eng. (Bsc-MBA) brings to Feel Good Cars over 20
> years of experience in the automotive sector. For the past four
> years he held the position of Director of Engineering for Global
> Electric Motorcars, a major Neighbourhood Electric Vehicle
> producer and a subsidiary of Daimler Chrysler. Mr. Bergeron also
> possesses strong engineering knowledge and insight regarding the
> EEStor energy storage technology and will be a key executive in
> the commercialization of this emerging technology for the
> Corporation's products.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Inquiring minds would like to know the timing advance per RPM's and if it's
linear and if it's effected by current. Does anyone have a chart or
relationship in degrees advanced per RPM's? Does it vary for different motor
diameters?
Thanks,
Mark
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most SUVs are automatics these days. Yet EVs need to
be manual trannies.
Most SUVs are prohibitively heavy, and not
aerodynamic.
Any conversion, if done safely, will be in the
neighborhood of $7-9000. Getting someone to do the
labor is roughly $4,000, and that is IF you can
commission them. It's a matter of the liability
involved.
peace,
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have an suv I would like to have EV priced out for
> me. Anyone know of an established firm that can
> price this out for me. That has expert experance ?
> You can recomend
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I refrained frm NiCad because I was following the KISS
rule. NiCads need cooling and watering (moreso than
Pbacid).
You'd be in to the tune of about 6-8K, but people on
the list who are using them are certainly pleased with
the results.
SAFT doesn't like selling to you unless they've okayed
your charging/management system.
peace,
--- Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Can anyone direct me to a link for a
> FAQ on batteries?
>
> (posts from this group are great, but
> hard to sort through.)
>
> I'm considering a car that uses 13 Deka 8G27...
> I would like to get an idea just how
> expensive it would be to buy NiCDs for it.
> (and how long would it take, and how hard
> would I be banging my head on a wall? :-)
>
> I found SAFT web sites, but they aren't giving
> pricing
> or application-specific advice on the site.
>
> I haven't seen the car yet, but I imagine
> the switch to NiCDs will require a new Temperature
> Management System.
>
> Thanks
> Seth
>
>
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: Ranger EV Battery Modifications
> > Hello Mark,
> >
> > Looks like someone is more than doubling the cost of the batteries
> to you.
> >
> > The Trojan 8 volts 150 AH T-875 cost $77.25 wholesale price exchange.
> >
> > Roland
> >
>
> Those can't be used. Mark is talking about an OEM Ranger EV, which has
> sealed 8V batteries meant to be left to themselves until they die (or
> there is a problem with the pack that requires direct access). Blue
> Sky Motors did end up swapping out one dying module in mine, but this
> is not a job usually tackled by the owner. A ton of batteries are
> suspended beneath the frame in a sealed case - I may do the 12v
> switch-out when my pack dies, but I get better than 60mi per charge
> now (6000mi since purchase <1yr ago), so I have a while before I
> figure out how to do the job at home.
>
> You would be totally bored with the lack of owner involvement on this
> truck - other than plugging in the Avcon, I've filled the windshield
> washer once and checked the tire pressure a few times, that's it (not
> including my experiments with aero mods). Other than a vague "power"
> meter, there is no true measurement of amps or volts, or what the
> system is doing to run everything. We call the truck "the Cicada",
> since you hear this slight high-pitched sound when the rear window is
> open. An equal weight of lithium would get the truck as far as the ICE
> version, and still not need anything fancy from the owner.
>
> This would drive me nuts, I have to know everything what's going on in
> the EV.
In my EV, I monitor motor RPM, motor amps, motor volts, battery volts,
battery amps, 12 VDC DC-DC charging amps and volts and load amps and volts.
The 180 volt DC-AC inverter amps and volts at the battery source and amps
and volts at the end of load.
Also, the motor temperature, motor controller temperature, ambient
temperature, cab temperature, motor bay temperature, battery temperature and
A/C temperature.
Then there is the vacuum data at the vacuum pump, at the brakes after the
check values and at the vacuum accessories after another check value.
Readouts for the 120 VAC 60 HZ system which is use for the electric heating,
fan cooling, and pumps.
Monitor the commercial power transfer units that transfer the on board AC to
the commercial power AC which can run all the AC systems, while it is plug
in.
And finally, the main charging monitors, which includes AC voltage, AC
ampere, DC voltage, DC ampere, Ampere-hour, DC wattage used for the main
battery pack and DC voltage, DC ampere, and percentage of discharge for the
accessory battery.
Then there is run time data, that reads out vehicle run time, motor run time
and vehicle away time.
The matrix control system, can rewire the EV on the go, to test out
different modes of operation.
Everyday, I am always designing, modifying, and changing something on my EV.
Roland
>
>
>
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thanks for all the replies
On 7/23/06, Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
You didn't mention how the voltmeter was connected, but I'm assuming it
was across pack negative and positive on the battery side of both main
contactors (so you could read pack voltage even with the key off). If
this is the case, leakage through it might slowly drain your pack, but
it shouldn'tbe able to afect the controller caps unless there is leakage
around the main contactors somehow.
i thought i did mention it. The voltmeter and DC/DC are both connected to
the controller side of C1 and the battery side of C2, so they both come on
with the key (i don't read battery voltage on the dashboard meter when the
key isn't on).
On 7/24/06, Arthur W. Matteson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I would recommend never connecting a
contactor in the negative side of a circuit. If you put C1 and C2 in
series on the positive side, you won't measure 130V but instead 0V from
controller (+) to pack (-), and you can use the car the same way.
- Arthur
why not put a contactor on the neg side ? just to hold everything at equal
potential ? I thought the way I had it wired is pretty standard for
conversions, no ?
I guess I like the idea of being able to completely isolate the controller
from the HV system. Since my pack has flooded batteries (now BB600s) and
there is almost always some tiny ground fault, I like having no HV at all on
the controller if I need to swap a wire or something. I guess there is
always the disconnect too....
i suppose this isn't anything to worry about. I just wanted to make sure
that my meter wasn't damaged and about to burst into flames in my dashboard.
thanks all.
~fortunat
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--- Begin Message ---
How come everyone here keeps forgetting Hybrid Technologies LiX-75 ( a
Mullen GT lithium-ion electric ) ?
http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/lix-75-the-worlds-fastest-electric-car
http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/media.php?mediaID=060212
IIRC, they announced the price of $125K and small volume production of
a hundred units a year or so, pretty much in the same ballpark as
Tesla.
-kert
On 7/22/06, Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The Tesla, Venturi Fetish and TZero are not made for the common man. It is
not intended to be practical.
Don Cameron, Victoria, BC, Canada
see the New Beetle EV project www.cameronsoftware.com/ev
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steve Powers
Sent: July 21, 2006 6:31 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Tesla Motors unveiled (my comments)
I read all the posts about the Tesla with mixed emotion. True, it seems
like a very nice EV, one of the best I have seen. I would go as far as to
say it is over-designed, 0 - 60 in 4 sec, 250 mile range. Who can honestly
say that they really need a car like that. And, then I heard about the
price, which of course I expected to be quite high. In fact, it is. I have
heard $80k, and even $90k from a different source. Maybe they were trying
to make a point that a high performance EV can be made. But, we already
knew that.
At the same time, what they created is a car that to the common man might
as well be made out of "unobtanium." I'd say 99% of the people on this list
can't afford that car. I'd say 99.99% of the general population can't
afford that car, and if they could, they wouldn't buy it. Why not? Those
people, the ones with the money, are smart business people and they don't
want a hassle. They want a car backed by a major auto maker. Something
like a Lexus, Mercedes, BMW ... I truthfully don't see them buying the car.
There are the select few super rich who are also into the environment or
unique cars. Those few may buy one. I expect that I will never see one on
the road in my daily travels. And, I suspect that most of you never will
either. So, what was gained? Some good publicity, sure. Someone proved a
point, sure. Did it actually help get the common man any closer to driving
an EV, no. I have to say no. If anything, it makes people think that EVs
are super expensive. Still not pratical for the common man, people like
me.
I've stated before what I think (this is my opinion, so feel free to
disagree) the common man is looking for, and still no one seems to be
pursuing that market.
1. Late model conversion - doesn't even have to be new
2. Sustainable - parts available for at least 10 years
3. Reasonable comforts, power brakes, AC
4. Automatic - the common man doesn't like to shift - it is true
5. Performance similar to a typical 4 cyl car - Corolla / Civic (better
than a Force)
6. Cost - if well reconditioned, about $12 - $18k. Quality of an 8-10
year old used car - which would be easier to market - $8500 - $10k.
7. Battery pack availability in the future and it can't cost a fortune. I
think as far as the common man goes, Li Ion is out. NiMH is still an
option. Even decent lead acid is OK.
8. As far as battery maintenance goes, the common man doesn't want to
have to water them.
9. The car needs to be smart with a BMS because the common man doesn't
like hassles.
10. Range. A real world range - in real world traffic - with hills and
stop and go - 80 miles. 80 miles is more than sufficient. If it is a
parallel hybrid as well, it could have a 25 mile range in EV mode as long as
it has similar performance in EV and hybrid ICE mode.
11. It has to be backed by a major auto manufacturer so that people can
sleep well at night knowing that someone will be there if it breaks and
needs repair.
12. Options of 2 door or 4 door.
I think the above could be done, and a successful business could be
created catering to that market.
What do I think will happen long term? Well, I think one of the major
auto makers will come out with a plug in hybrid dual purpose EV and ICE car.
I think the car will do at least 25 miles in EV mode and will go 0-60 like
the current small hybrids. I think it will be freeway capable. I think it
will be Toyota, and I think it will happen within the next 3 - 5 years. I
also think the common man will buy that car. I think that like me, he / she
commutes < 25 miles on work days and can run all electric monday - friday.
And, I think if he / she needs a little extra range one night or on a
weekend he or she will go and fuel it up. I think it is pratical and a
decent approach to clocking some real EV miles. Everyone that I know who
has an EV also has an ICE car. If you put them in the same chasis, you only
have to register, insure, store, and maintain one car. I see a real
advantage to this. Sure, I want all electric cars on the road, I bought 3
of them you know.
And, I even started building a 4th. I am an EV guy, don't get me wrong.
But, to get them on the road, I think we need to take that intermediate
step. This is my opinion, so feel free to disagree.
In the meantime, I guess I'll just have to keep waiting until someon sells
their 10 year old conversion with a 80 mile real world range for $8500.
Trust me, anyone with that car, isn't selling it. And if they were, it
wouldn't be $8500. I do remember though when you could buy a used Force for
about $4000 and a Jet Electra for <$1500 and of course my first EV for only
$600. I paid about $3600 for the ETV-1, not running. But, now that has all
changed. I guess I'll just have to dream on thinking I can still get that
dream car for $8500.
Still dreaming,
Steve
Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What I saw when putting the pictures of the Lotus Elise 3 and the Tesla
side by side was that the CHASSIS seems to be identical, but the styling of
the panels is quite different, so it seems to be "based on" the Elise 3
(Federal).
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/pictures/edatabase/viewpicture.php?id=
116&image=chassis.jpg&title=chassis&album=laautoshow03
and from the unveiling pictures:
http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/autoblog/hirezpics/IMG_6894.jpg
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/20/tesla-roadster-unveiling-in-santa-monica/
Some striking details ARE the same, such as the striplights next to the
wheels on the fenders.
But the design of the hood, the lines on the side, the scoop, a lot of
things are different, so it is not really a look-a-like.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130 Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX:
+1-610-423-5743 Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of nikki
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:07 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Tesla Motors unveiled
Apparently the Tesla is actually a Lotus - I have just been listening to the
BBC radio station in Norfolk and they just mentioned it in the news!
Regards
Nikki
__________________________________________________
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Jeff,
What if we all pledged to kokam to replace our packs with Li-Poly on an
agreed date and price.
How many cells would we buy using 100AH. What kind of deal could we
strike?
Kokam offers their cells to individuals as well as OEM's. They have
indicated that this policy is because they feel that among the individual
experimenters of today will be the people who find the way to the mass
market. So, I am confident that if you can get together a large enough
order, Kokam will try to give a good discount. The cells will still not be
cheap.
This assumes we have the BMS issues sorted out.
This is crucial. Everyone needs to consider what BMS's are available. Kokam
offers one but it is expensive. There are other BMS's being developed. I
suspect these will be cheaper.
or is it, what is the 1hr rate on kokams?
The Kokam's are rated at the 2 hour rate. They lose just enough capacity at
1 C so that the 100 amp-hr High Energy cell would become the 98 amp-hr cell.
http://kokamamerica.com/kokam_catalog.pdf (Page 14, center graph).
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
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--- Begin Message ---
A magnetic coupling relative data point.
Some Injection molding machines use magnetic platens to hold in molds.
These are permanant magnets that normally hold the mold in and the power
in the coils counter acts the magnet during installation/changeover. We
are talking two hunks of steel that can weight 4000 lbs ripped open at
high volocity a couple of times a minute, day in and day out. (A safety
switch stops the machine if a mold half begins to lift)
In this example maybe we put the permanent magnet on the tow and the
coil on the car?
I still don't see how the next guy then gets serviced and the issues
with being connected.
What about a cannery (is that the right term?
Looks like a really cool rear spoiler around town, but pull into the
EV enabled lane and raise the cannery up. It seems like the power poles
down the center strip would be easy and the technology is already avail,
if not a bit ugly.
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Rick Woodbury's "Tango" EV is only 3 feet wide and 8 feet long -- that
offers another possibility. You could have flatbed trailers or train
cars, with ramps on the sides for Tangos to drive on/off. Drive your car
to the bus/train stop. Truck/train pulls in. You drive onto the next
available parking spot. Truck/train pulls out, goes to the next stop. If
it's your stop, you drive off.
Now you have a way to commute, and take your car with you!
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Don Cameron wrote:
It would be nice to see a race that was not just straight line
acceleration.
Comparing the Tesla to a drag car in a straight line acceleration is
somewhat biased.
Something that can test acceleration, cornering and range...
Ummm, I've got a suggestion.....<G>
David C. Navas wrote:
I'm less sure of ProEV's chances -- the Elise is a pretty nimble
car, and while the Tesla is heavier, it's center of gravity is
reportedly lower....
The Telsa is lighter than the Electric Imp, I hear 2,600 lbs now with a goal
of 2,400lb in production. We are 2,670 lbs at the moment. To race, they
would need to add the weight of a roll cage.
Our batteries are mounted in the floor while their pack seems to be the area
behind the seats, so I would think that we have a lower center of gravity.
They have a edge in pack size. Our new pack will be 35 kWhs while I have
heard theirs
is 56.9 kWhs but we have better regen.
I think it would be a good race but ProEV's Kokam powered Electric Imp would
win. Driver quality being the deciding factor ; ^ )
Roy LeMeur wrote:
<Some wilde biker dude mentioned that Tesla Motors would not be competing
with the prototypes and would be waiting until the actual production models
are available to race with.>
Oh well. Back to beating up on ICE's then.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
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