EV Digest 5686
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: batteries again
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Starter / Generator on e-bay $10
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Nicads
by "Tom Gocze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVs in the News - was - Re: Wabbit in the Wocky Mountain News
by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Nicads
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Wayland invitational #2
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Carrier companies
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EV AC
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Car Insurance in PA
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV AC
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Car Insurance in PA
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Car Insurance in PA
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV AC
by "Michael Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Wayland invitational #2 (changed to Saturday 7-29)
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled (my comments)
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Car Insurance in PA
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: EV Test drive
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) GEM Repair/Modification
by "martin emde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Comparing H2 and Electricity for Transportation
by Mike Willmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Tesla Motors unveiled (my comments)
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Meeting of BEVOB this Sunday in Bristol UK
by nikki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Fool Cells
by "Mark Fisher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Timing VS RPM's
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Timing VS RPM's
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Upgrading to a higher voltage
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Wayland invitational #2 (changed to Saturday 7-29)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "MIKE WILLMON" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: batteries again
> With part numbers like that I would assume they are Deka batteries,
rebranded for West Marine. If thats the case find a Deka Rep and buy direct
from them. No doubt West Marine prices will be higher. I paid $140 each
for my sixteen 9A31's. That was before the recent lead price hike. Remy
still advertises them for $140 at
http://www.remybattery.com/Deka-Intimidator%20Batteries_263196.html Compare
to West Marine's $229.
>
> Mike,
> Anchorage, Ak.
> Hi Mike an' EVerybody;
Good warning. Visiting West Marine makes me $oooo glad I got rid of my
boat, years ago! Forgetabout buying batteries there!They have nice 5/8'
nylon cable clamps for attaching power cables under the car, though. and
niceTerminal blox, but for a simple 15 bux Radio Crap Ammeter they want 60
bux!Now an' again Waste Marine has some good stuff, like a set of trailer
lites for 10 bux, ON SALE! EVen beating Auto Zone on that one.The Electrical
Dept is an interesting browse, cool stuff to be had.
My two watts worth.
Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Seth Rothenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:41 am
> Subject: batteries again
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
>
> > Another possibility is to go to West Marine,
> > but I think their prices aren't so good.
> > They have a Warranty (is it voided by abuse? :-)
> >
> > West Marine has a SeaVolt AGM Batteries
> > ("sea" link below) Specs on paper almost identical to Deka 8G27
> >
> >
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=53271
> >
> >
> > Numbers similar to 8G27
> > Battery - 12V AGM, Group 27, 92Ah, 12.75"L x 6.75"W x 9.9"H, 63lbs (F)
> > 1231406 8A27M Only $199.99 USD YES
> >
> >
> > also
> >
> > Battery - 12V AGM, Group 31, 105Ah, 12.9"L x 6.75"W x 9.4"H, 70lbs
> > (C)
> > 1231422 8A31DT Only $229.99 USD YES
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a 350 A GE starter generator on e-bay #110011607871. It is currently
at $9.99 with 1 bid. I don't recommend building an EV with this as a "motor",
but if there is some hobbiest out there who wants to build some kind of high
school science project budget EV, this thing should actually move a small car,
maybe 45 MPH in a 2500 lb car (as converted). The efficiency would be about
55-60% and you would need very serious cooling. You can't run it above 72 V,
even with cooling and current limited. Just information, in case anyone wants
a "toy motor" or wants to make a DC welder.
I don't recommend it by any stretch of the imagination, but its out there if
you really want it.
Steve
---------------------------------
How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just got my 1995 S10 running today with 72V of Saft Nicads. I will be
installing 120v when done, but wanted to try out everything and check for hot
connections and fire and things like that.
No fire, no bad connections, just a nice peppy ride, pulling 30-80amps running
around in my business parking lot at 15-20mph.
I am using Nicads that I think were originally used for UPS's. They are rated
at 100ah and are individual cells. Presently, there are 60 in series. I charged
them with a sort of Bad Boy charger that has an isolation transformer, variac,
bridge and some caps along with volt and ammeter. I can put out 84VDC at about
7amps into the pack. Got them charged up (I Guess!)over about 13 hours.
Wondering what I am doing in terms of these batteries. They all charged well.
The vehicle is running in the yard (not registered yet, still need to put the
lights back in order.)
Any thoughts on the ability of these cells to function on the road? I think a
Zivan can be programmed to charge nicads.
AND, how the heck do you keep track of run time??? I suspect an amp hour meter
like a Link 10 on some cells would be it. Am open to suggestions
One last goofy question: am running a Curtis 1231. Can I fool around with field
weakening by running a resistor across the field of my 9" ADC? Will the Curtis
be upset with that?
Now have to run to New Hampster to get some new doors. Great reason to go to
the mountains.
Next year-Mount Washington beckons.
Tom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Excellent article Bill! I noticed that they picked the best of
all of the participants in the article and put their picture at
the top. :^)
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4849571,00.html
Here's a great article by Alexandra Paul. The misinformation
doesn't begin until after the article ends and the public response
begins. The article is called "Paul: Who Killed My Electric Car"
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/25/paul.commentary/index.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Gocze wrote:
I just got my 1995 S10 running today with 72V of Saft Nicads. I will be
installing 120v when done, but wanted to try out everything and check for hot
connections and fire and things like that.
No fire, no bad connections, just a nice peppy ride, pulling 30-80amps running
around in my business parking lot at 15-20mph.
I am using Nicads that I think were originally used for UPS's. They are rated at 100ah and are individual cells. Presently, there are 60 in series. I charged them with a sort of Bad Boy charger that has an isolation transformer, variac, bridge and some caps along with volt and ammeter. I can put out 84VDC at about 7amps into the pack. Got them charged up (I Guess!)over about 13 hours.
That's interesting. I'm running a string of 252 BB600 cells in my 1994
S10. Bit smaller, but a similar idea.
Note: If there is anything copper touching the cells it will dissolve in
a few weeks. Ditto for anything zinc (screws). Ask me how I know :-) I
highly recommend nickel plated interconnects.
Wondering what I am doing in terms of these batteries. They all charged well.
The vehicle is running in the yard (not registered yet, still need to put the
lights back in order.)
Any thoughts on the ability of these cells to function on the road? I think a Zivan can be programmed to charge nicads.
AND, how the heck do you keep track of run time??? I suspect an amp hour meter like a Link 10 on some cells would be it. Am open to suggestions
Get an E-meter for starters. It's perfect for watching ah in and out and
putting a charge factor (say 90%).
So far I've found so far that my S10 runs pretty well on the road. Bit
slow in accelerating from 50-70mph on a steep highway up-ramp, dropping
to 1.1 volts per cell (275 volts or so). But I am taking it easy for now.
Note that the S10 Electricar trucks had a base voltage of 312, and I'm
running a base voltage of 302. I'm probably going to add some more
batteries and bring it up to 325 volts or so.
Do you have any pictures or specs on the batteries?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Be *where*???
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 12:28 PM
Subject: Wayland invitational #2
>
> Well the definition of a Wayland invitational.. BE there... with no
warnings... Just BE there.
> Not can you.. Just BE there..
> Forget Home
> Forget Familly
> Forget Company..
>
> Just be there and race.. and make Plasma boy look good.
>
> If we actually had more than a week to make it happen, It just would not
be the same..
>
> We Got chargers
> We got the breaker box
> Ot's got the Cam Lok and Cables
> Where's my Dot leagle drag slicks...?
>
> We have charger back up.. I hope...
>
> So we Gonna be A Racin' Friday night.. with the Gas Guys.. and a few more
TV cameras, GeeZ not again... I have my Mug on wayy too many feet for Video
tape this year...
>
> So come on down to PIR from about 5 PM to 1AM This Friday night for the
2nd Ever Wayland Invitational.
>
> Madman Says we are going to have a Blast....
> Here's to fun and no vaporized parts!
>
> Be there!
>
> Now back to tame EV list post...
> ScuZZ the tire smoke..
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cross country is tricky... as compared to, say 200 or so miles.
If it's small, say a GEM, you can check with furniture hauling dudes. (I
know a guy who had a FW hauled that way.) If time is not as important, you
can start trying the various long haulers. Occasionally you'll see one of
the car or freight haulers bringing a car/truck along as they dead head.
If you happen to be near an auto plant, you may be in luck. If it's not
clear across the nation, they often deadhead back, after carrying autos out.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Polsinelli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 8:13 AM
Subject: Carrier companies
> I've bought an electric vehicle that needs to be transported across
> country. Anyone have a recommendation for a good car transport company?
>
> Thanks
>
> ~Michael
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking over the AC posts of last week and previous. Tinted windows
were mentioned. Unfortunately, dark tinting isn't optimum for reducing
inside heat and mirrored tinting is frowned upon by everyone. In our state,
IIRC, tint can only be applied by the "factory" (often by dealerships) and
can't be very dark.
I was wondering if anyone had mentioned the new advertising jobs that are
currently the rage locally. I stopped by to look at one today. It's amazing
how much light these block out, and the bright color they used kept the van
reasonably cool (much cooler than my car) though it had been sitting in the
sun most of the day. The back windows were a bit overdone, but the side
windows offered as much visibility as mirrored tinting... or at least as
much as darker tints.
If you haven't seen it, it's sort of like the stuff they put on busses for
advertising. It's rather like the panels you could buy (years ago, before
they were made illegal) that had tiny pinholes in them. I think it's sprayed
on plastic sheet and applied, but I haven't contacted the local shop that
does these... and they can be made in any color, with any pattern you wish.
I'm thinking about adding them to my ICE. Now that I have the freeway
mileage up to 37MPG, I hate to give any away by running the AC.
(Unfortunately, the new Neons are *all* glass and no windflow, so even 70
degree days are hot.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK OK I know this has been hashed out before so please dont zap me. ;)
I live in Pennsylvania and have been denied auto insurance for my
conversion that I have not even begun yet.
So I am looking for insurance for my not even started EV Conversion.
Anybody in PA with a EV please contact me off list with your insurance
company name so I can contact them.
Thanks
Mike G.
turbo at city-net dot com
You know the drill to decifer the address above ;)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wasn't aware that mirrored tint was problematic; I was going to use
it, as I expected it to keep out the most light and heat. What exactly
is the problem?
And is there a name for that pinhole process? I could ask around to see
if anyone around here does it.
Thanks,
Jude "Spark Lad" Anthony
Michael Perry wrote:
I was thinking over the AC posts of last week and previous. Tinted windows
were mentioned. Unfortunately, dark tinting isn't optimum for reducing
inside heat and mirrored tinting is frowned upon by everyone. In our state,
IIRC, tint can only be applied by the "factory" (often by dealerships) and
can't be very dark.
I was wondering if anyone had mentioned the new advertising jobs that are
currently the rage locally. I stopped by to look at one today. It's amazing
how much light these block out, and the bright color they used kept the van
reasonably cool (much cooler than my car) though it had been sitting in the
sun most of the day. The back windows were a bit overdone, but the side
windows offered as much visibility as mirrored tinting... or at least as
much as darker tints.
If you haven't seen it, it's sort of like the stuff they put on busses for
advertising. It's rather like the panels you could buy (years ago, before
they were made illegal) that had tiny pinholes in them. I think it's sprayed
on plastic sheet and applied, but I haven't contacted the local shop that
does these... and they can be made in any color, with any pattern you wish.
I'm thinking about adding them to my ICE. Now that I have the freeway
mileage up to 37MPG, I hate to give any away by running the AC.
(Unfortunately, the new Neons are *all* glass and no windflow, so even 70
degree days are hot.)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not in PA, but one Allstate agent insured me, _AND_
put it under a stated-value policy. The other agent
just insured me.
peace,
--- "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OK OK I know this has been hashed out before so
> please dont zap me. ;)
> I live in Pennsylvania and have been denied auto
> insurance for my
> conversion that I have not even begun yet.
> So I am looking for insurance for my not even
> started EV Conversion.
> Anybody in PA with a EV please contact me off list
> with your insurance
> company name so I can contact them.
> Thanks
> Mike G.
>
> turbo at city-net dot com
> You know the drill to decifer the address above ;)
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can keep the same insurance company... just try different agents. Agents
tend to dismiss anything they don't understand (say, anything more
complicated than turning on a light switch). Even 3 wheel EVs have been
insured... by the same company (actually agent) that dismissed the original
claim.
Unless, of course, this is home built, a 3 wheeler (motorcycle) or such. In
which case, it may require going to independent agents. Many agents, in some
states, won't insure anything home built. (Home built, as in scratch, not
just in dropping a motor into an existing frame... in which case it's a
"2002 Chevy" or whatever.)
...just my experience...
----- Original Message -----
From: "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:04 PM
Subject: Car Insurance in PA
> OK OK I know this has been hashed out before so please dont zap me. ;)
> I live in Pennsylvania and have been denied auto insurance for my
> conversion that I have not even begun yet.
> So I am looking for insurance for my not even started EV Conversion.
> Anybody in PA with a EV please contact me off list with your insurance
> company name so I can contact them.
> Thanks
> Mike G.
>
> turbo at city-net dot com
> You know the drill to decifer the address above ;)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It varies with state. In Oregon, it's illegal. In all states, it's rude.
(Ever drive up behind a PU with a mirrored rear window on his canopy?)
I think Oregon made it illegal for the safety of their patrols... as in
glass dark enough to not see what the driver is doing. 2 of my friends had
various solar blocking on their car windows. (They have problems with direct
sun.) Both pulled it out after being stopped so many times... despite
doctor's letters.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jude Anthony" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: EV AC
> I wasn't aware that mirrored tint was problematic; I was going to use
> it, as I expected it to keep out the most light and heat. What exactly
> is the problem?
>
> And is there a name for that pinhole process? I could ask around to see
> if anyone around here does it.
>
> Thanks,
> Jude "Spark Lad" Anthony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Michael Perry wrote:
Be *where*???
Michael, be at PIR (Portland International Raceway) in Portland, Oregon.
Roy LeMeur had posted a press release about this to the EVDL, but I
suspect his message got filtered in most cases, as it did for me.
There's something in his email settings that makes it disappear from the
EVDL and reappear in my personal email file. Roy is working on fixing
this problem and will repost the press release soon.
Rich is talking about the Wayland Invitational II this 'Saturday' night
at PIR. We had posted it was going to be Friday night, but the PIR web
page had not been updated and had incorrectly listed Friday night as
being reserved for the Late Night Drags. We finally heard back from PIR
personnel late today, Tuesday, in answer to Roy LeMeur's numerous calls.
They told us Saturday night was the scheduled date for the Late Night
Drags, not Friday....sooooo, we've changed the date to Saturday,
7-29-06. The NEDRA web page currently says Friday 7-28, but that will be
changed by tomorrow (once east coaster Chip Gribben wakes up) to reflect
the Saturday 7-29 date.
See Ya.....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
NEDRA Wayland Invitational II at Portland International Raceway 7/29/06
Hi Folks
This is somewhat short notice, but that's the way things sometimes go with
racing.
This is an officially sanctioned NEDRA Event.
A film crew from Australia's version of PBS (SBS TV, Sydney
www.sbs.com.au/dateline) will be there to document this EVent coming Saturday
night 7/29/06 6pm to 12am at Portland International Raceway-
www.portlandraceway.com
Admission -
$8/Adults, $5/Children All Racers $22
Plus... all the local media we can manage to get there.
The list of competitors planning to attend so far are...
John Wayland - White Zombie
Otmar Ebenhoech - California Poppy
Rich Rudman - Goldie
Father Time - Father Time Machines "FrankenDragon" Green Bike
Steve Kiser - Father Time Machines "Dragon Rose" Red Bike
All EVers are welcome to compete or just be there for the cameras.
Some EVs that will be on display are-
Mark Mongillo's Datsun Pickup Truck
Gary Graunke's Honda Insight EV conversion (may actually race)
Plus the usual assortment of bikes and scooters.
Be There!
...
Roy LeMeur
NEDRA NW Regional Race Director
www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Powers wrote:
>Even cars with 156 V / 1k controllers loaded with
>lead acid batteries will not beat my corolla off the
>line. Simply stated, it just isn't fast enough.
May I interest you in Blue Meanie? 156V of old Optima AGMs
that need replacing, Zilla 1k controller, and 9" ADC motor.
0-60 mph in 6 seconds, top speed around 125 mph. This is a
2,400 pound car.
AGMs and that setup will give the performance desired.
The kind of car outlined can be done. But it will require
aerodynamic modifications to cut drag coefficient. It will
need to be a lightweight chassis. This leaves out new cars.
But a classic, properly restored and painted, would probably
sell pretty good anyway if the conversion is very clean.
The setup you're asking for might look like this:
-WarP 9'' series DC motor x1 160 pounds $1,575 (EV Source)*
-Deka Intimidator Group 31 9A31 sealed lead acid battery x13
891 pounds $1,820 (Remy Battery)*
-Godzilla Controller(72-156V DC, 1,000 amp max, HEPI) x1 16
pounds $1,980 (EV Source)*
-PFC 20 Charger x1 20 pounds $1,525 (EV Source)*
-Rudman MkIIB regs x13 $585 (EV Source)*
-Iota 45 amp DC-DC converter (96-180Vin, 13.8Vout) x1 6
pounds $204 (EV Parts)*
-E-Meter x1 $229 (Xantrex)*
-Solid-State Ceramic Heater Core x1 $75 (Grassroots EV)*
-Adaptor Plate x1 15 pounds $800*
-Miscallaneous components(Heat shrink tubing, fuses, steel
for battery racks, ect.) 100 pounds $1,000*
-Donor Vehicle $2,000 (Preferably Datsun 1200, Honda CRX, or
other lightweight/aerodynamic vehicle)
-Sheet metal, plastic, fiberglass, and other components for
aerodynamic modifications 30 pounds $100
-Nokian 205/70R15 LRR tires x4 $268 (Nokian)*
-Redline MTL synthetic transmission oil $15
-alignment correction to 0 camber, 0 toe is free with tire
replacement
Shipping is assumed to cost 10% of all components marked
with '*'.
Total: $13,182.10
With proper aero and efficiency mods, this would grant a
converted vehicle that could do 0-60 mph in ~ 7 seconds,
with 2,600-2,800 pound weight depending on what kind of
small car, top out at over 120 mph, and do 80 miles range at
60 mph if consumption can be gotten down to 150
Wh/mile(Doable, but needs aero mods!).
In order to attract your common Joe with an old chassis, it
needs to be a classic renown and desired for a certain trait
or look. Think of a classic VW Bug, Datsun 1200, Mazda RX2,
Fiat 600, or some such. A Honda CRX HF has very good aero
and might do the trick if the right "hot import" look is
achieved with modifications. The bug and Fiat have awful
aero, but subtle modifications could help greatly without
dramatically altering the vehicle's appearance.
The battery heaters would keep the desired range in
winter-time use.
Also, the battery costs could be cut a bit and range
slightly extended with a set of Universal Battery UB121100s.
Those are the cheap Chinese AGMs recently talked about.
Little is known about their reliability in EV applications
yet. Cor Van De Water has a set on his truck that are still
going strong after 6 months and 3,000 miles. Probably don't
have the power of the Deka Intimidators, so acceleration
would decrease somewhat. They're $100 each with shipping.
A smaller, cheaper 8" motor could also be used, but
acceleration and top speed wouldn't be as good. Maybe 0-60
mph in 9 seconds, top speed around 100.
This conversion cost could be cut a LOT if a homeade Bonn
charger and homeade zener regs were used, along with doing
your own adaptor plate. But then it would be a car for a
hobbyist, and not your average Joe. I have a few ideas on
how to do a similar setup for $6k. Even less to around $4k
if a used motor is chosen and the Zilla is forgone for a
used DCP controller or even a contactor setup, but
acceleration performance would decline to a sedate 0-60
around 11 seconds or so with the 600 amp DCP.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike,
You you want to insure the value of the car or just the
damage that you may do to others?
My insurer was interested in my driving an EV, but he
simply wrote the year, make and model of the conversion
vehicle and I was done, about $150 per half year. (Farmers)
(I think I have coverage increased to 300k-100k-300k)
My insurance is *not* covering the damage to my vehicles.
I have never bought a *new* car and I prefer to pay when
I buy (I mean - cash or check) so when I happen to
crash one of my vehicles then I have lost that money,
but there is nobody coming after me for payments on
a loan, I will just need to re-assess my finances and
buy a car to match.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of M.G.
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:05 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Car Insurance in PA
OK OK I know this has been hashed out before so please dont zap me. ;)
I live in Pennsylvania and have been denied auto insurance for my
conversion that I have not even begun yet.
So I am looking for insurance for my not even started EV Conversion.
Anybody in PA with a EV please contact me off list with your insurance
company name so I can contact them.
Thanks
Mike G.
turbo at city-net dot com
You know the drill to decifer the address above ;)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth,
Most important of all:
Do you like the car?
I mean - is the stying what you'd want to drive for years?
Is the acceleration (and braking) and other handling to your
satisfaction?
Is the range more than sufficient?
If you go 30 miles each day and you can take the car out for
half an hour freeway then you should have a good idea. But if
the seller starts to look difficult when you suggest to
actually take it for such a long spin, then you may want
to add a new pack into your budget.
Check if the batteries are sealed of floodeds.
How do all the terminals look like?
take a fast road to test speed,
take a bumpy road to test shocks and handling,
make a U-turn to check tire alignment (rubbing)
puch the car on a flat surface by hand - does it move
easily? With the slightest slope my truck starts to
roll away by itself....
Are all pedals and controls acting the way you want?
How is security: safety disconnect?
Battery hold-down?
And so on...
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Seth Rothenberg
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 10:07 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: EV Test drive
So, I am going for an EV test drive on Friday morning.
I don't know if the seller will allow me to do
anything other than drive it...
I was wondering if there's any tests I can do in
short order with a multimeter that would be useful
to figure out battery life, etc?
(if they allow)
Otherwise, I'm just checking that components
are in good shape, I could do routine things myself,
look at the rotors, kick the tires.
I guess the big thing is the drive system,
and it is not so susceptible to the problems
like my ICE just had...oxy sensor, gasket, Cat.Cvt.
Thanks
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Greetings,
I was recently given a GEM electric car that's missing the controller,
charger, and wiring. The motor is still installed and in working order. I
would like to install an after market controller to get the car going
again. Does anyone know of a controller that will work with the stock 72V,
3.3 hp motor (I think it's a GE D-6300 motor)? And if one exists will it
get the car going faster than 25mph? Any help with this project is greatly
appreciated. Thanks.
Martin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips,
In response to your question below from July 12th I fortuitously came across an
extremely well written paper from the Institute
for Lifecycle Environmental Assessment. The following is a description of how
I got there because there is a lot of other
interesting EV information along the way to peruse.
First from the Paul: Who killed my electric car? article
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/25/paul.commentary/index.html
I found this link, written but not hyperlinked, to Sherry Boschert's site
http://www.sherryboschert.com/works.html
On her site she has, amongst several, a power point presentation called PV + EV
= Solar Power Plus Electric Vehicles at
http://www.sherryboschert.com/PV_EV_Talk/PV-EV%20talk.htm
In that presentation on the slide titled Non-EV Options is the following bullet:
The Hydrogen Hypeway:
Institute for Lifecycle Environmental Assessment:
http://www.ilea.org/downloads/MazzaHammerschlag.pdf
In this 52 page paper, which is an excellent read, on page 25 is a dramatic "in
your face" pair of pie charts which drives home
the point we belaboured last week about FCV vs EV. The authors analysis into H2
production and transportation is easy to
understand and the sources he sites seem reliable. This may be the answer to
your question if you have not already found one.
Enjoy,
Mike Willmon,
Anchorage, Ak.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mike Phillips
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:36 AM
To: MIKE WILLMON
Subject: Re: OT re:WKTEC GM's Reply/Blog
Do you guys know of a reliable web source about the energy it takes to
make hydrogen?
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
75 - 79 Bug or later model if you want to import from Mexico (80 - 91)
Disc brake upgrade kit - make them power as well
replace body with fiberglass kit car
~ 300 V NiMH battery pack
locked in 2nd gear - no shifting
1k HV controller
heater and A/C out of Toyota hybrid
some interior mods to make it look different
Would cost - very roughly - $25k. Much less than a Tesla (or other) and
meets the requirements. Believe it or not, a 79 Bug kit car is still supported
and sustainable.
Steve
John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Steve Powers wrote:
>Even cars with 156 V / 1k controllers loaded with
>lead acid batteries will not beat my corolla off the
>line. Simply stated, it just isn't fast enough.
May I interest you in Blue Meanie? 156V of old Optima AGMs
that need replacing, Zilla 1k controller, and 9" ADC motor.
0-60 mph in 6 seconds, top speed around 125 mph. This is a
2,400 pound car.
AGMs and that setup will give the performance desired.
The kind of car outlined can be done. But it will require
aerodynamic modifications to cut drag coefficient. It will
need to be a lightweight chassis. This leaves out new cars.
But a classic, properly restored and painted, would probably
sell pretty good anyway if the conversion is very clean.
The setup you're asking for might look like this:
-WarP 9'' series DC motor x1 160 pounds $1,575 (EV Source)*
-Deka Intimidator Group 31 9A31 sealed lead acid battery x13
891 pounds $1,820 (Remy Battery)*
-Godzilla Controller(72-156V DC, 1,000 amp max, HEPI) x1 16
pounds $1,980 (EV Source)*
-PFC 20 Charger x1 20 pounds $1,525 (EV Source)*
-Rudman MkIIB regs x13 $585 (EV Source)*
-Iota 45 amp DC-DC converter (96-180Vin, 13.8Vout) x1 6
pounds $204 (EV Parts)*
-E-Meter x1 $229 (Xantrex)*
-Solid-State Ceramic Heater Core x1 $75 (Grassroots EV)*
-Adaptor Plate x1 15 pounds $800*
-Miscallaneous components(Heat shrink tubing, fuses, steel
for battery racks, ect.) 100 pounds $1,000*
-Donor Vehicle $2,000 (Preferably Datsun 1200, Honda CRX, or
other lightweight/aerodynamic vehicle)
-Sheet metal, plastic, fiberglass, and other components for
aerodynamic modifications 30 pounds $100
-Nokian 205/70R15 LRR tires x4 $268 (Nokian)*
-Redline MTL synthetic transmission oil $15
-alignment correction to 0 camber, 0 toe is free with tire
replacement
Shipping is assumed to cost 10% of all components marked
with '*'.
Total: $13,182.10
With proper aero and efficiency mods, this would grant a
converted vehicle that could do 0-60 mph in ~ 7 seconds,
with 2,600-2,800 pound weight depending on what kind of
small car, top out at over 120 mph, and do 80 miles range at
60 mph if consumption can be gotten down to 150
Wh/mile(Doable, but needs aero mods!).
In order to attract your common Joe with an old chassis, it
needs to be a classic renown and desired for a certain trait
or look. Think of a classic VW Bug, Datsun 1200, Mazda RX2,
Fiat 600, or some such. A Honda CRX HF has very good aero
and might do the trick if the right "hot import" look is
achieved with modifications. The bug and Fiat have awful
aero, but subtle modifications could help greatly without
dramatically altering the vehicle's appearance.
The battery heaters would keep the desired range in
winter-time use.
Also, the battery costs could be cut a bit and range
slightly extended with a set of Universal Battery UB121100s.
Those are the cheap Chinese AGMs recently talked about.
Little is known about their reliability in EV applications
yet. Cor Van De Water has a set on his truck that are still
going strong after 6 months and 3,000 miles. Probably don't
have the power of the Deka Intimidators, so acceleration
would decrease somewhat. They're $100 each with shipping.
A smaller, cheaper 8" motor could also be used, but
acceleration and top speed wouldn't be as good. Maybe 0-60
mph in 9 seconds, top speed around 100.
This conversion cost could be cut a LOT if a homeade Bonn
charger and homeade zener regs were used, along with doing
your own adaptor plate. But then it would be a car for a
hobbyist, and not your average Joe. I have a few ideas on
how to do a similar setup for $6k. Even less to around $4k
if a used motor is chosen and the Zilla is forgone for a
used DCP controller or even a contactor setup, but
acceleration performance would decline to a sedate 0-60
around 11 seconds or so with the 600 amp DCP.
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everyone,
Please can you pass this on to anyone who may be interested.
BEVOB, (Battery Electric Vehicles of Bristol) is a recently set-up
group which I'm sure I've mentioned in the past - so I won't go into
much details. It's a local group for owners or enthusiasts of
electric bikes, cars or scooters. We promote CBEV and BVS as well as
our own group and are having a little get-together this Sunday
(That's the 30th July) at the Parkway Pub, Stoke Gifford, Bristol.
For those who don't know, it is adjacent to Bristol Parkway Train
station.
IF you'd like to come along and join us please feel free. We're going
to meet from 2pm to 4pm. If anyone needs directions please let me
know by email.
Hope to see any of you who can make it there!
Regards
Nikki.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Shell Hydrogen
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:12:59 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Shell making a fool (cell) of themselves?
Go to www.shell.com/hydrogen and click on
"ultimate fuel", the claim is:
" At Shell, we have developed this fuel. It is called hydrogen..."
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=hydrogen-en&FC3=/hydrogen-en/html
/iwgen/ultimate/ultimate_fuel_0111.html
...................................
or:
http://tinyurl.com/zuydn
.....................................
So I sent them a little note talking about highschool kids
and periodic table of elements.
I also got a bit carried away on efficiency and scientists
already proving that Hydrogen's future is dead and some
quote about a naked emperor.......
Cor:
You have to admit that they were careful to stay within the bounds of
reality in their claims. Admittedly, they DID get as close to the edge of
the possible as imaginable, but someone is vetting their copy to keep the
claims defensible.
For instance, they admit that most hydrogen is formed from naturral gas
(though they do not dwell on the implications of this). On the next page,
they then state, "Fuel cells powered by pure hydrogen emit no harmful
pollutants, " carefully avoiding the question of where the H2 comes from.
Likewise, they correctly state that fuel cells are more efficient than
internal combustion engines, but avoid mentioning that the same Kw of power
will drive a car three times as far if it is used directly as electricity
instead of being used to electrolyze water.
The weakest statement I saw was, "Still, even hydrogen produced from
hydrocarbons will offer a significant reduction of emissions on a well to
wheels basis."
I wonder if my junior college students could parse out the propaganda
techniques that are used to advance Shell's agenda. Perhaps a few hints
about "Straw man arguments" and "transfer."
Nice clean web site design, however.
Mark
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--- Begin Message ---
I spoke with Dan at ADC and he mentioned that it's 1 degree advance per 1k
rpm's and they sometimes on special request advance ADC motors 5 degrees. He
said the rpm's will go up as well as the current but the efficiency will not.
He said in a direct drive vehicle where starting off is crucial, it's best to
leave it neutral.
I also mentioned that my motor gets up to 190F (88C) after an hour of driving
and he said that the insulation is class F or 180C and to limit the motor temp
to 140C. So 88C was considered OK even at the bearings due to their sealed
nature , he said.
Best Regards,
Mark
---------------------------------
See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> insulation is class F or 180C
Class F is 155C, class H is 180C
Most forklift motors use class H.
Rod
--- "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I spoke with Dan at ADC and he mentioned that it's 1
> degree advance per 1k rpm's and they sometimes on
> special request advance ADC motors 5 degrees. He
> said the rpm's will go up as well as the current but
> the efficiency will not. He said in a direct drive
> vehicle where starting off is crucial, it's best to
> leave it neutral.
>
> I also mentioned that my motor gets up to 190F
> (88C) after an hour of driving and he said that the
> insulation is class F or 180C and to limit the motor
> temp to 140C. So 88C was considered OK even at the
> bearings due to their sealed nature , he said.
>
> Best Regards,
> Mark
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it
> out.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
Currently on my fiat 126 EV i am running 72 volts of trojan scs225.
Its alright in terms of performance but climbing hills when 60% SOC is a bit
tiresome. I am driving in 3rd gear all the time which i cringe when the amp
meter reads more than 150 amps and my battery voltage sags to about 66
volts.
I would like to run an extra battery to 84 volts. That way i assume that i
can run pretty much 2nd gear all the time. at the moment 2nd gear only gets
me to 50 km/hr tops on flats. I am hoping that the extra voltage will rev
out the motor a little more to get me around 60-70km/hr on the flat.
And hence with higher revs, i can use less current in 2nd gear than 3rd gear
at the same speed.
My aim is to increase the pittyful range of around 20 kms of my car to
hopefully around the 30km mark.
Has nyone done that.
I was told by Alltrax that the controller can handle 84 volts. But got to
make sure that the voltage never exceeds 100 volts.
So for a fully charged pack of 7 12volt batts i can just make the 90 volt
limit where the logic controller will stop the PWM ing.
I think that this would be a better way to increase range other than change
the batteries to 6 volters which will be too damn heavy or increase the
voltage to 96 volts.
Cheers
_________________________________________________________________
New year, new job there's more than 100,00 jobs at SEEK
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=752315885&_r=Jan05_tagline&_m=EXT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, all,
One must realize that John has recently become an "old fart" (55) and has
earned the right to change his mind. Besides, now he can order off the
senior menu in some restaurants, and even join AARP.
- Father Time
> [Original Message]
> From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Date: 7/25/2006 10:08:48 PM
> Subject: Re: Wayland invitational #2 (changed to Saturday 7-29)
>
> Hello to All,
>
> Michael Perry wrote:
>
> >Be *where*???
> >
> >
> >
> Michael, be at PIR (Portland International Raceway) in Portland, Oregon.
> Roy LeMeur had posted a press release about this to the EVDL, but I
> suspect his message got filtered in most cases, as it did for me.
> There's something in his email settings that makes it disappear from the
> EVDL and reappear in my personal email file. Roy is working on fixing
> this problem and will repost the press release soon.
>
> Rich is talking about the Wayland Invitational II this 'Saturday' night
> at PIR. We had posted it was going to be Friday night, but the PIR web
> page had not been updated and had incorrectly listed Friday night as
> being reserved for the Late Night Drags. We finally heard back from PIR
> personnel late today, Tuesday, in answer to Roy LeMeur's numerous calls.
> They told us Saturday night was the scheduled date for the Late Night
> Drags, not Friday....sooooo, we've changed the date to Saturday,
> 7-29-06. The NEDRA web page currently says Friday 7-28, but that will be
> changed by tomorrow (once east coaster Chip Gribben wakes up) to reflect
> the Saturday 7-29 date.
>
> See Ya.....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
>
> NEDRA Wayland Invitational II at Portland International Raceway 7/29/06
>
> Hi Folks
>
> This is somewhat short notice, but that's the way things sometimes go
with
> racing.
>
> This is an officially sanctioned NEDRA Event.
>
> A film crew from Australia's version of PBS (SBS TV, Sydney
> www.sbs.com.au/dateline) will be there to document this EVent coming
Saturday
> night 7/29/06 6pm to 12am at Portland International Raceway-
> www.portlandraceway.com
>
> Admission -
> $8/Adults, $5/Children All Racers $22
>
> Plus... all the local media we can manage to get there.
>
> The list of competitors planning to attend so far are...
>
> John Wayland - White Zombie
>
> Otmar Ebenhoech - California Poppy
>
> Rich Rudman - Goldie
>
> Father Time - Father Time Machines "FrankenDragon" Green Bike
>
> Steve Kiser - Father Time Machines "Dragon Rose" Red Bike
>
> All EVers are welcome to compete or just be there for the cameras.
>
> Some EVs that will be on display are-
>
> Mark Mongillo's Datsun Pickup Truck
>
> Gary Graunke's Honda Insight EV conversion (may actually race)
>
> Plus the usual assortment of bikes and scooters.
>
> Be There!
> ...
>
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
> NEDRA NW Regional Race Director
> www.nedra.com
>
--- End Message ---
