EV Digest 5691
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Want to build a sporty EV
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Replacement resistor for Albright/Curtis contactor.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Want to build a sporty EV
by Ray Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Want to build a sporty EV
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Unexpected first charge with PFC-20
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Prizm data point
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV AC
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: Want to build a sporty EV
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV digest 5689
by Mike Swift <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV AC
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Replacing motor can with lighter material
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Cap Based Battery Balancer
by "Lewis, Brian K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Upgrading to a higher voltage (comment)
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Replacing motor can with lighter material
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Jet Electrica upgrade Hints Tricks Help
by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Jet Electrica upgrade Hints Tricks Help
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: WarP 11 in Pickup (was RE: Chelsea Sexton to appear...)
by "steve clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Multi-"gear" motors (was: Re: Want to build a sporty EV.
Motor Mania)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Jet Electrica upgrade Hints Tricks Help
by Steve Powers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Fried SSR
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Fried SSR
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Fried SSR
by "Grigg. John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Fried SSR
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Replacing motor can with lighter material, BIG motors.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I for one am not ready for the buy it now solution to an EV. The Seimens AC
drive systems are excellent but I want to push things until they break and the
integrate $4K to $10K AC systems don't allow you to mix and match components.
The engineer in me wants to be able to try some new ideas and test some proven
ideas. I want to try blow some stuff up.
Hat's off to guys that have come up with better ideas. The list is great for
sharing ideas.
You can play with a DC system for not too much money so the list has a lot of
DC traffic for members working to improve their EV.
My first two EVs were motorcycles that are working great, go fast and look
good. I tried some new ideas (twin motors, CVT, modular engine, NiMh/pb hybrid
battery pack, etc). Some ideas worked great, some still need more testing,
some I want to forget I tried.
A sporty auto is a new challenge. I am sure I can build a nice one for a lot
less than a Tesla.
Ezesport
Mark Frederick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi there--------
I think we all want the sporty EV. I envision an AC motor, Inverter, with
Lithium-Ion Batteries. Drive out of a Ranger EV, batteries from whoever can
get the price down to Earth. I think a Kit Car approach, with a standard
car, with fiberglass panels, or even a hot rod like a '27 T track roadster.
this will get the weight down, and overcome the homely stigma. Is cost the
only reason every one is talking about DC motors? The Siemens AC motors are
available, I haven't searched for extra controllers/inverters yet, but it
just seems like a good solution. What am I missing?
Mark Frederick
12970 Earhart Ave. Suite 110
Auburn, CA 95602
Cell 530-277-1985
Office 530-887-1984 ex 105
Fax 530-887-1986
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ray Wong
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 11:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Want to build a sporty EV
Hello list members.
My third EV project will be a sports car. I am finally getting past the
design and seach for cheap parts stage and now have to make some choices. I
welcome any suggestions or comments from the experienced members of the
list.
I want to build a sporty EV that looks great, goes fast, goes far. OK
stop laughing.
Here is what I am working with:
1988 RX7 Gen 2 Turbo - has a great body, new paint, disks all around, 5
speed, dead engine. Nice looking car. Cda of about 5.95
Choice of twin motors
- Two Prestolite 4001 twin shaft. These can easily be coupled with a
spline coupler.
- Two ADC 203-06-4001M single shaft. These could be belt/chain coupled
or sent to Jim to add some tandem magic.
Choice on tranny
- existing RX7 5 speed. Likely need a race clutch. Rear end?
- Powerglide 2 speed set up for drag racing manual shift
I will need to make an adapter plate depending on the setup.
Controller
Zilla 2K 300 V if Otmar will return my email so I can get it ordered.
Parallel/Series switching option
Batteries
I am thinking of a hybrid battery pack using Hawkers for punch and NiMH
for range. I have some used M-95 NiMh packs from a Ranger EV, tested good
to +80AH. I replace a few of the weaker cells.
This is the same type of configuration I used on my EZE sports bike. The
Hawkers act like big capacitors.
I was thinking of a 192V system with 16 Odyssey 16AH pb (3.1kwh) plus 16
M-95 NiMh (18.2kwh). Total pack weight 896 lbs. Estimated range of 70-100
miles.
Guestimate on vehicle weight is 3200- 3300 lbs. That only leaves me 350
lbs to max GVWR of 3635.
Questions to the group:
1) Will the 8" ADC give me a whole lot more than the smaller 7.25"
Prestolite. The Presolite is an easy tandem setup. I would need to send
the ADC to Jim at Hi-Torque. Jim, pm me with how much?
2) The Powerglide is great for drag racing but is a 5 speed better for
mostly street use. I want to be able to do a burn out and maybe give some
friends a good first impression of an EV. Edmonton is mostly flat.
3) Has anyone else had success with a hybrid battery pack. The biggest
complaint is the complexity of the BMS/charger setup.
4) Should I go higher on pack voltage. 240V?. GWVR weight becomes an
issue. Pack would be over 1100lbs
5) Given the above, can I hope to see a 13 second quarter. What chould I
change/add to make it faster.
Thanks
Ray Wong
Ezesport
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
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starting at 1¢/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know about brown notes but many musicians are brown nosers. Of
course that't how a lot of them get ahead. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: Replacement resistor for Albright/Curtis contactor.
> > Duh. It was the Diode! Radio Shack # 276-1144. I reversed
> polarity. It
> > fried the diode. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> >
>
> That's just the natural consequence for EV musicians who try to play
> the brown note... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note)
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roderick for the warning. The gen2 is a turbo with a little more meat
than the gen 1 but I am also concerned about the shafts.
Right now I am leaning towards using a Powerglide with a few TCI upgrades.
Hardened input shaft etc. The powerglide was previously used with a small block
and has been setup for manual shift. Don't need the torque converter.
The stock rear end may not survive. I notice you use one from a 68 charger.
Are there any other good used ones out there that fit a RX7.
What gear ratios are you using in your Powerglide and rear end?
Thanks
EZEsport
Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ray Wong said: "Choice on tranny - existing RX7 5 speed. Likely need a race
clutch. Rear end?"
We would routinly twist off transmission output shafts on our Gen 1 "Maniac
Mazda" running only a 1000 amp controller. I would be checking to make sure
the Gen 2 had beefed up the output shaft if you intend to use a tranny.
Remember that the quickest street bodied car in the world used a tranny and
that was with the motors only seeing slightly over 100 volts. Something to
think about.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.4/401 - Release Date: 7/26/2006
---------------------------------
See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know if there is a way to program a controller to prevent a
motor from building up torque to the point of drive line failure?
Ralph.
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Ray Wong said: "Choice on tranny - existing RX7 5 speed. Likely need
a race clutch. Rear end?"
We would routinly twist off transmission output shafts on our Gen 1
"Maniac Mazda" running only a 1000 amp controller. I would be checking
to make sure the Gen 2 had beefed up the output shaft if you intend to
use a tranny. Remember that the quickest street bodied car in the
world used a tranny and that was with the motors only seeing slightly
over 100 volts. Something to think about.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nope!
you just are in Reg HELL!
That means you are doing your first euqlization stage.
All the full ones are full and banging against the charger correctly.. and
you still have some weak ones coming on to full charge.
I some times fool them and bump the current to clear the last pesky red
leds. Crank amps to 0, Wait for the voltge sag.. hammer on full amps for
about 1 second.. the system over shoots them grabs control again. This
clears the Regs that are sitting at 14 something, and change, But not a full
14.8.
If this persist check the voltage on the battery that just won't clear it's
Red LED.
Yellow... Umm Not gonna See it!. It only lights:
When A Dip sw 6 is turned on... for AGM equalization. Not recomended. I use
this to test the RegBuss cable integrity. Neat feature...
Or You have a battery that is below 10 volts and the charger is ON. This
would be a VERY bad thing to have happen. But...
The Yellow will only light on a Mk2B when the charger is powered up. So
seeing yellow while driving is not going to happen...
Unless... you add the LOW BATT trick circuit, that I have only made 3 of....
So.. forget the yellow while driving, go ahead and play with it on the
charger... All the yellows should light if they all really have good data
cables installed.
Oh yea.. other Reg tricks. The little header RT2 right by the RJs, if
shorted out...should tell the charger that reg is hot. The charger should
snap back to zero amps in about
2.5 seconds. Do this on the last Reg.. this checks that the Hot Reg Opto
and signal lines are compitent to the charger, and the RT2 short tests the
Low batt lines.
the other lines are power and gnd.. clearly if the led and the hot reg
sginal are active... Pwr and GND are also.
Get a meter on those last to clear Red LEDs... they could be trouble. hand
charge to 14.8 and less than 2 amps if you can. this should drop them into
line with the rest of the
fully charged pack.
Gotta go..
I have Spiffy Manzanita Micro Charging systems sticker ready.. In Seattle...
There goes the afternoon.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jude Anthony" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:18 AM
Subject: Unexpected first charge with PFC-20
> It's been a disappointing day.
>
> I finally hooked everything up. That was cool. I only electrocuted
> myself once, probably because my converter is a Todd, so it's always
> ready to draw some current. Very minor.
>
> I roasted a voltmeter trying to measure the resistance of the emergency
> circuit breaker (to figure out why I electrocuted myself) with all the
> batteries hooked up. More sparks! More knowledge. I will learn from
> these mistakes.
>
> My 12V battery was nearly dead. I had very weak lights, until I closed
> the emergency circuit breaker. Then everything was nice and bright.
> Probably that converter doing its job. Unfortunately, several of my
> Rudman MK2B regulators immediately reported undervoltage, but that's no
> biggie.
>
> But I couldn't get the wheels to spin. That was the big
> disappointment. But I figured, hey, my batteries have been sitting on
> the garage floor for nearly four weeks. Maybe they're too weak to power
> the Curtis 1231C.
>
> This is my first attempt to charge an EV. I tried to calibrate the
> PFC-20, according to its instructions. Without a voltmeter, I thought
> I'd have some serious problems. But then I remembered my eMeter. It
> showed 147V, and this is a 144V pack of 12 YellowTops. Maybe they
> aren't as dead as I thought. I figured charging them was still a good
> idea, so I carried on.
>
> The eMeter reports between -9 and -12 amps, which seems to indicate good
> behavior. I'm charging from standard house current. After about five
> minutes of adjusting the voltage upwards, the pack was at 160V or so,
> and the first regulator came on. I turned down the current a bit to get
> it to turn off, and kept adjusting the voltage up. It came on quickly.
> I decided to leave it there and allow charging to continue, since I
> hadn't seen the yellow limit light lately.
>
> After about 30 minutes, another regulator started blinking green. An
> hour and a half later, a few of the red ones have started blinking
> green. There are still four red ones left, but the others seem happy.
>
> It's the charger that's bothering me. All the blinking regulators
> stopped at once, and the charger started flashing the blue timer light
> without the yellow limit light. The manual seems to indicate that means
> a regulator went over its max temp or something and the charger started
> a timeout. It keeps happening every ten minutes or so, though.
>
> None of the regulators gets a yellow lamp, at least as far as I can see;
> does the RegBus prevent that?
>
> It's been nearly four hours now, so I turned down the current again and
> turned the voltage up a bit. I won't let it go over 180V, but I would
> like those red LEDs to turn off and get the regulators all blinking
> green. I've still got three red ones.
>
> I was expecting a quick ramp-up to 180V, followed by a finishing
> charge. I'm getting this ten-minute pulsing. Is this expected behavior
> for the calibration charge? Am I making another mistake? Have I
> ($DEITY forbid) already murdered my first pack???
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Jude Anthony
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
> The real proof of the pudding will come in Fall when I drop
> the pack for a review.
Thanks for the additional data points; it certainly does sound
encouraging.
Looking forward to your report in the fall!
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wasn't ready to put my own tinting on the S10 windows, nor to invest in a
professional job so purchased 2 of those curtains (w. pinholes) used for
little children in cars. (put along the back window)
I guess I should expect to get pulled over some time to remove them. For
now, it does keep the sun from getting through the back, and the sunshield
in the front (while parked).
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dana 60 or 8 3/4 ?
Mike
--- Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ray Wong said: "Choice on tranny - existing RX7 5 speed. Likely need
> a race
> clutch. Rear end?"
>
> We would routinly twist off transmission output shafts on our Gen 1
> "Maniac
> Mazda" running only a 1000 amp controller. I would be checking to
> make sure
> the Gen 2 had beefed up the output shaft if you intend to use a
> tranny.
> Remember that the quickest street bodied car in the world used a
> tranny and
> that was with the motors only seeing slightly over 100 volts.
> Something to
> think about.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.4/401 - Release Date:
> 7/26/2006
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the iron in the stator is solid and the outer shell is more than
about 1.5 mm (0.06") then the shell is part of the magnetic circuit,
and the motor needs the iron. If the stator is made from a stack of
iron laminations then the shell is just there to hold the end bells
in position. Most OEMs will buy what is called in the trade a motor
"kit" that consists of a rotor and stator made to the requirements of
the OEM then they add a shaft, end bells, and shell. This is much
more efficient for the OEM who then does not need the highly
specialized talent and equipment needed for electric motor design and
manufacturing.
On Jul 27, 2006, at 5:25 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: July 27, 2006 5:12:25 AM PDT
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Replacing motor can with lighter material
Hello All,
There is one type of motor that does not have the normal field pole
placements. It is a coil form of windings place inside a plastic
core.
Something like a large plastic pipe. I do not remember what the
rotor is
made out of.
This motor is a DC brushless motor by - SWISS ETEL.
Roland
Mike Swift
Some say we must tax corporations more. What they do not understand
is that corporations do not pay taxes. One of our govenments
conditions for a companies exsistance is thay collect the taxes from
their customers and pass them to the government.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 7/27/2006 3:20:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I wasn't ready to put my own tinting on the S10 windows, nor to invest in a
professional job so purchased 2 of those curtains (w. pinholes) used for
little children in cars. (put along the back window)
so why not use voltaics on a hinged flap (up while parked, down while
driving) instead?
just curious, some charge is better thn no charge.
~Tom
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have read in one of the science magazines some time ago, that SWISS ETEL
have a contract to build eight large motors of that design to drive 8 foot
diameter props on a very large wing aircraft that is going to fly around the
world by the same group that flew the balloons.
I think it was to start testing in 2010 and start for the record in 2012.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Replacing motor can with lighter material
> The company I work for also makes these motors.
> http://www.xtreme-energy.com/pdf/servo/BI-08-75.pdf
> Which is now owned by Ametek.
> These are too small for an EV unless you are the size
> of Stuart Little.
> These motors are wound flat and then fitted to a
> circular form and encapsulated in epoxy.
> Iron is required around the perimeter of this stator
> to complete the magnetic return path. Most of our
> motors are 10% of the diameter of the back iron (for
> example, the iron yoke on a 2" motor is approximately
> 0.2" thick). If its not thick enough for a given
> magnet, the field strength is not strong enough and
> the motor is innefficient.
> We call these 'slotless' motors and they are used
> primarily for high speed applications that require
> very small motors.
> Rod
>
> --- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > There is one type of motor that does not have the
> > normal field pole
> > placements. It is a coil form of windings place
> > inside a plastic core.
> > Something like a large plastic pipe. I do not
> > remember what the rotor is
> > made out of.
> >
> > This motor is a DC brushless motor by - SWISS ETEL.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 1:09 AM
> > Subject: Re: Replacing motor can with lighter
> > material
> >
> >
> > > The iron is an integral part of the motor, it
> > forms part of the magnetic
> > > path.
> > > Aluminum (and other such light weight materials)
> > won't work.
> > >
> > > > I've had this idea to replace the steel/iron
> > motor can with something
> > > > that
> > > > is lighter such as an aluminum alloy or
> > something similar. Maybe
> > > > something like a 7075 type of aluminum with some
> > hardening might do the
> > > > job but im not sure. The idea is to of course
> > lighten the total weight
> > > > of
> > > > the motor for a motorcycle application.
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone
> > Calls to the US (and 30+
> > > > countries) for 2�/min or less.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4
> > lines of legalistic
> > > junk at the end; then you are specifically
> > authorizing me to do whatever I
> > > wish with the message. By posting the message you
> > agree that your long
> > > legalistic signature is void.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is an interesting thought. The document suggests that resistive
losses are very low in this design. I had already threw together a set
of Lee Regs to get by until I had this solution. Lee regs throw out a
lot of heat when they are doing their job. Something this cap circuit
would not do. If I keep what I have working I need to do it properly
with heat sync etc but originally I thought I would go this other rout.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Dennis
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 9:50 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Cap Based Battery Balancer
There was some discussion on the EVDL about this a few months ago, so
you
might want to check the archives. I think Lee Hart cautioned that it
would
take a long time to balance, and that there would be quite a bit of
energy
loss in the capacitor resistance.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lewis, Brian K
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 7:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Cap Based Battery Balancer
I have been trying to build a circuit for a Capacitor Based equalizer
found here...
http://www.smartsparkenergy.com/pdf/batteq1.pdf
My first attempt at building the circuit did not yield good results.
This is about 3x the complexity of anything I have tried to build in the
past.
Before I spent a lot more time debugging or rebuilding I was wondering
if anyone out that has actually implemented this?
Brian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Upgrading to a higher voltage (comment)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:51:52 -0500
Robert Chew wrote:
travelling at the same speed on different gears, 2nd and 3rd
in different cars... you would be using less current in 2nd gear
than 3rd gear due to a higher rpm.
Right. Same speed means same power. The motor in the car in 2nd is running
at higher voltage, higher rpm; and lower current, lower torque.
This is because current is directly proportional to torque generated.
Not "directly"; It's a curve. In a series motor, torque is proportional to
current squared at low currents, gradually moving toward proportional at
very high currents.
My other reasoning of driving in a lower gear is to get the motor spinning
in its sweet spot of around 3800 and a little higher.
The "sweet spot" for an electric motor is actually very broad. A mere 2:1
difference only has a minor effect on efficiency. The problems only occur
at the extreme ends. At very high rpm, fan losses and wind resistance
become significant. At very high current, I2R losses become significant.
Lower currents also mean less power loss through cabling switching
MOSFETs and longer battery lifetime.
If you're using a controller, same HP means same battery current,
regardless of motor speed. Thus battery cabling and life are unaffected.
-- If we use the curits fuel gauge which i am using in my vehicle. The SOC
is determined through the variation of the voltage sag with time ( i
believe, correct me if i am wrong). So, my intention was to minimise this
votlage sag, by minimizing the current draw from the batteries.
A MOSFET controller is 95-98% efficient, so the difference between 2nd and
3rd gear as far as the controller is concerned is lost in the noise.
Lower current will also produce smaller voltage sag due to the smaller
currents being drawn from the pack in total.
No; pack current is unaffected (see above).
--How does pack current stay un affected? V = IR, when run at higher
voltages.
higher rev will let me regen more effectively.
That's possible.
Here's the situation I see, with an ADC series motor and Curtis PWM
controller, in a 2200 lbs car. At 40 mph, 2nd and 3rd gear have equal
efficiency. Below that, 2nd is more efficient; at higher speeds, 3rdis more
efficient. But the difference is very small; just a few percent.
--The efficiency does not differ by only a small percent. The ADC Curve of
the motor efficiency with relation to the current through it, hence the
resultant torque and assuming a contant terminal voltage states that the
motor efficiency drops significantly after the 3800 rpm sweet spot. Through
my thesis experimental data and correlating that with the effciency curves
supplied by the manufacturere, i fuond that the motor eff is better if i
drvie in 3rd gear and use a slightly higher current.
But running in 3rd gear also means poorer motor cooling due to the lower
fan speed. So I usually drive in 2nd to sacrifice a little efficiency but
keep the motor cooler.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
_________________________________________________________________
realestate.com.au: the biggest address in property
http://ninemsn.realestate.com.au
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I have read in one of the science magazines some time ago, that
SWISS ETEL
> have a contract to build eight large motors of that design to drive
8 foot
> diameter props on a very large wing aircraft that is going to fly
around the
> world by the same group that flew the balloons.
>
> I think it was to start testing in 2010 and start for the record in
2012.
>
> Roland
Aren't Swiss motors fancier than any road-going EV needs? I wouldn't
think anyone of average means will be driving an Etel-powered car
anytime soon!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have given up on the Jets original motor controller. It will be
May before I can afford a new one. I am going to redo the electrical
while I am waiting to buy. I would like suggestions on what to do to
the car while I am waiting. Planned so far.
1. Move the new controller from the back of the car to the front
closer to the motor.
2. Take the 3 phase charger out of the car and use it as a bulk
charger at night. This also gives me space for the controller and a
dc-dc converter in the front.
3. Put in the dc-dc converter.
4. Gang/opportunity charger goes in back next to the main battery
box.
5. Repaint and insulate the battery boxes. I found some spray on
tool coat at Harbor Freight.
6. Upgrade to 108 or 120 volt system.
7. Put in the Powercheq units.
8. Cover the long runs of 1 gage wire in PVC.
Anything else I have forgotten? Any hints from the Jet owners to make
this a better and easier upgrade?
R. Matt Milliron
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matthew Milliron wrote:
> 1. Move the new controller from the back of the
> car to the front closer to the motor.
Definitely a high priority; it is difficult to understand why anyone
would locate the controller at the opposite end of the vehicle from the
motor!
> 6. Upgrade to 108 or 120 volt system.
Don't bother with 108V; if you are looking for peppier performance, make
the jump to 120V (at least). If you want more range, replacing the
present pack with 96V of flooded 6V golf car batteries will make a
bigger difference (but the increased weight will definitely impact
performance).
Bear in mind any pack voltage upgrades you plan on may impact your
DC/DC, charger, and controller options. Curtis only goes to 144V;
Zilla's go higher, but there is a cost associated with crossing the 156V
threshold.
> 8. Cover the long runs of 1 gage wire in PVC.
1ga wire? If this is the main battery wiring, get rid of it and replace
it with good quality 2/0. A friend did this to the wiring in his 120V
Jet 007 and found it made an appreciable difference in the voltage sag.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike , That truck has had a lot of different combonation , started out
with golf cart batteries and was clunn car 5 . I redid it for Battery beach
brun out event .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Willmon" <> Steve,
I take it then the videos of your burnouts in the Mitsu are with the Z1K?
2k 264v
I'm wondering how your tranny and rear end, if they were stock (2WD? or
4Wd?),
stock 2wd
held up to the launches in 3rd gear? I'm more
worried about the tranny with just the 9".
it was when in 3rd gear and doing a brun out with the bigger tires that the
tranny started making a funnny noise .
I know of two other 4WD Mitsu pickup skeletons that I've been eyeing.
my 2wd was the lightest pick up I've done so far. I still have those 2
russion trucks , said shipping weight 1500 lbs without motor , no title's no
miles never a gas motor , $300 takes one away .
steve clunn
If
I took on the task of building a dragster I'd probably
acquires these for the frames. I like the torsion front springs. You
could get a cowling down below the tops of the tires this
way :-)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
-----Original Message-----
Steve Clunn wrote
That's the one , I was over a Paul's one night and that Lamborghini had a
bad gas motor , we got to talking and worked out a deal , where I'd put my
ev parts in and am part owner :-) I pulled the 11 " out of my green race
truck the Mitsubishi mighty max seen here
http://www.grassrootsev.com/mits.htm and when my 2k zilla gets here that
will go in also. For now It will have to suffer with a 1k.
Nice!!!
How well did that 11" WarP fit into your Pickup?
Very well , the mounting holes for the 9" are the same so I could use the
same adapter plate. Size wise its still smaller that a gas engine .
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:28 AM 27/07/06 -0600, Doug Weathers wrote:
I was thinking specifically of Jim's altered series-wound motors (which
weren't originally designed for series/parallel operation) and the Zilla
controller (which is expecting two motors). AFAIK, nobody has this combo
on the road yet.
G'day Doug, and all
I'm working on it! My motor is away at my not-so-local (better than the
local) motor shop here, having new fields wound and put in. Turned out on
close inspection that the fields in my (probably 50+ year old) motor had
crunchy insulation, so the fields needed to be re-done anyway.
I already made up the extra terminals and insulators for it, and worked out
the placement of the 3 contactors along the side of the motor to do the
series/parallel shift, under control by a Z1K.
But I expect someone else will get on the road with this method before I do
(running a business leaves me with too little time).
Regards
[Technik] James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I used to have a Jet as well, but mine was the Plymouth TC3, 120 V, 300 A
controller :( One of the reasons I sold it was the poor performance, because
I had the original EV-1 controller which was probably even worse than what you
are going to replace. If I knew then what I know now, I never would have let
it go.
You only have 16 batteries. Use 8 V, and bring it up to 128 V. If If your
charger isn't capable, you can take one out and leave it at 120 V. The high
power controller is the answer. Go with the best. You won't regret it. The
difference in performance between a 400 A and 1k controller will be
unbelievable to you. Don't go with a 500 A controller, it won't be much better
than what you already have. Trust me, if I still had my car, it would have a
1k in it.
Other than that, redo the wiring and use 2/0. Take out any dead weight in
the car. Make sure it rolls smooth, good bearings, low drag, brakes adjusted
well.
That's about it. Too bad you can't fit in 19 x 8 V batteries and make it 152
V.
Steve
Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have given up on the Jets original motor controller. It will be
May before I can afford a new one. I am going to redo the electrical
while I am waiting to buy. I would like suggestions on what to do to
the car while I am waiting. Planned so far.
1. Move the new controller from the back of the car to the front
closer to the motor.
2. Take the 3 phase charger out of the car and use it as a bulk
charger at night. This also gives me space for the controller and a
dc-dc converter in the front.
3. Put in the dc-dc converter.
4. Gang/opportunity charger goes in back next to the main battery
box.
5. Repaint and insulate the battery boxes. I found some spray on
tool coat at Harbor Freight.
6. Upgrade to 108 or 120 volt system.
7. Put in the Powercheq units.
8. Cover the long runs of 1 gage wire in PVC.
Anything else I have forgotten? Any hints from the Jet owners to make
this a better and easier upgrade?
R. Matt Milliron
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/702
My daughter named it, "Pikachu". It's yellow and black,
electric and contains Japanese parts, so I went with it.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 27, 2006, at 7:58 AM, Grigg. John wrote:
I think I just blew my brand new SSR, its a 400V DC D4D12 Crydom
module.
I wired it up to control my new IOTA DLS-220-55 to turn on when the key
is in the ignition. Turned on but it never turned off. The only thing
I can think of that might have fried the SSR was not installing the
Transient protection diode yet. With module unwired, there is 80 Ohms
of resistance across the output. I guessing this is bad?
I'm going to take a first guess. The surge input current was exceeded.
Its only around 48 amps for a few milliseconds. I wonder how much input
cap the Iota has?
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> On Jul 27, 2006, at 7:58 AM, Grigg. John wrote:
>
> > I think I just blew my brand new SSR, its a 400V DC D4D12 Crydom
> > module.
> > I wired it up to control my new IOTA DLS-220-55 to turn on when the key
> > is in the ignition. Turned on but it never turned off. The only thing
> > I can think of that might have fried the SSR was not installing the
> > Transient protection diode yet. With module unwired, there is 80 Ohms
> > of resistance across the output. I guessing this is bad?
>
I'm interested in how this turns out because I'm planning on doing something
similar myself. I
want to control the SSR by the ignition switch. My dc-dc will be fairly modest
to start, maybe
just enough to keep the battery charged without running too many accesories.
I'll have to go to a
more powerful solution eventually. But please keep us informed about went wrong
and what works.
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It has two 470uF Caps on the input...
Paul G. Wrote:
"I'm going to take a first guess. The surge input current was exceeded.
Its only around 48 amps for a few milliseconds. I wonder how much input
cap the Iota has?"
On Jul 27, 2006, at 7:58 AM, Grigg. John wrote:
> I think I just blew my brand new SSR, its a 400V DC D4D12 Crydom
> module.
> I wired it up to control my new IOTA DLS-220-55 to turn on when the
> key is in the ignition. Turned on but it never turned off. The only
> thing I can think of that might have fried the SSR was not installing
> the Transient protection diode yet. With module unwired, there is 80
> Ohms of resistance across the output. I guessing this is bad?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: Fried SSR
> > On Jul 27, 2006, at 7:58 AM, Grigg. John wrote:
> >
> > > I think I just blew my brand new SSR, its a 400V DC D4D12 Crydom
> > > module.
> > > I wired it up to control my new IOTA DLS-220-55 to turn on when the
key
> > > is in the ignition. Turned on but it never turned off. The only
thing
> > > I can think of that might have fried the SSR was not installing the
> > > Transient protection diode yet. With module unwired, there is 80 Ohms
> > > of resistance across the output. I guessing this is bad?
> >
>
> I'm interested in how this turns out because I'm planning on doing
something similar myself. I
> want to control the SSR by the ignition switch. My dc-dc will be fairly
modest to start, maybe
> just enough to keep the battery charged without running too many
accesories. I'll have to go to a
> more powerful solution eventually. But please keep us informed about went
wrong and what works.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave Cover
> Hi Dave an" EVerybody;
With this DC to dc thing, whydon't ya just leave it on? I hooked mine,
Sevcon, hardwired right in and forgot about it.After all they are a
regulated power supply thingy, anyhow. I notice the vicious SNAP when you
hook things back up after, say, changing out a bum battery, and ya go to
connect things so you can drive the car. The last fuze going in and the DC
to dc ZAP!I figure it is sorta hard on the converter to ZAP it on, so if you
don't it will thank you with a long life. Yeah! the damn accessery batteries
DO die, when yur on the way home on a dark rainy night and the traction
battery is tired and the ACC battery is shot, and you go into electrical
twilite zone!This is how ya find a bum one, a good one would give ya decent
lights EVen though the trac. pak was tired.
Maybe I'm wrong with the above theory? En LIGHTen me if it's not a good
idea.BTW with a 90 volt car poised to run soon, I'll need a DC to dc for
that one, too. I don't think a Sevcon 128 volt primary one would have enough
oomph at 90 volts?So I'm thinking of a 90 volt imput one? Ideas? Iota's?
What's out there, nowadaze?
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: Replacing motor can with lighter material
> I have read in one of the science magazines some time ago, that SWISS ETEL
> have a contract to build eight large motors of that design to drive 8 foot
> diameter props on a very large wing aircraft that is going to fly around
the
> world by the same group that flew the balloons.
>
> I think it was to start testing in 2010 and start for the record in 2012.
>
> Roland
>
> Wow! Think of the Windwagon you could build with THAT motor!! 8 foot
prop! nobody would cut you off or tailgate you!And some Kokan batteries?
Yeah!
Seeya
Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 7:15 AM
> Subject: Re: Replacing motor can with lighter material
>
>
> > The company I work for also makes these motors.
> > http://www.xtreme-energy.com/pdf/servo/BI-08-75.pdf
> > Which is now owned by Ametek.
> > These are too small for an EV unless you are the size
> > of Stuart Little.
> > These motors are wound flat and then fitted to a
> > circular form and encapsulated in epoxy.
> > Iron is required around the perimeter of this stator
> > to complete the magnetic return path. Most of our
> > motors are 10% of the diameter of the back iron (for
> > example, the iron yoke on a 2" motor is approximately
> > 0.2" thick). If its not thick enough for a given
> > magnet, the field strength is not strong enough and
> > the motor is innefficient.
> > We call these 'slotless' motors and they are used
> > primarily for high speed applications that require
> > very small motors.
> > Rod
> >
> > --- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello All,
> > >
> > > There is one type of motor that does not have the
> > > normal field pole
> > > placements. It is a coil form of windings place
> > > inside a plastic core.
> > > Something like a large plastic pipe. I do not
> > > remember what the rotor is
> > > made out of.
> > >
> > > This motor is a DC brushless motor by - SWISS ETEL.
> > >
> > > Roland
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 1:09 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Replacing motor can with lighter
> > > material
> > >
> > >
> > > > The iron is an integral part of the motor, it
> > > forms part of the magnetic
> > > > path.
> > > > Aluminum (and other such light weight materials)
> > > won't work.
> > > >
> > > > > I've had this idea to replace the steel/iron
> > > motor can with something
> > > > > that
> > > > > is lighter such as an aluminum alloy or
> > > something similar. Maybe
> > > > > something like a 7075 type of aluminum with some
> > > hardening might do the
> > > > > job but im not sure. The idea is to of course
> > > lighten the total weight
> > > > > of
> > > > > the motor for a motorcycle application.
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone
> > > Calls to the US (and 30+
> > > > > countries) for 2�/min or less.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4
> > > lines of legalistic
> > > > junk at the end; then you are specifically
> > > authorizing me to do whatever I
> > > > wish with the message. By posting the message you
> > > agree that your long
> > > > legalistic signature is void.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
