EV digest 5758

Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:14:03 -0700 

                            EV Digest 5758

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: battery trailer
        by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Lithium Safety
        by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
        by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Lithium Safety
        by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
        by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Lithium Safety
        by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: battery trailer
        by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
        by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
        by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) moderndcmotors
        by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: NEDRA EVent in Alaska (was Re: =?windows-1252?Q?EV=92s_sho?=
 =?windows-1252?Q?w_at_the_Alaska_Renewable_=2E=2E=2E=29?=
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Oregonian Reporter Gets Zombied!
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
        by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Solar charging an EV - off grid
        by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) battery trailers
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 16) Re: battery trailer
        by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: NEDRA EVent in Alaska (was Re: =?windows-1252?Q?EV=92s_sho?=
 =?windows-1252?Q?w_at_the_Alaska_Renewable_=2E=2E=2E=29?=
        by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: battery trailer
        by "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
        by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) RE: modern dc motors
        by "Joe Vitek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: modern dc motors
        by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: Saturn paint job update.... it's Green!
        by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: battery trailer
        by Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Solar charging an EV - off grid
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message --- 
great system for carrying a second 180kg battery pack and/or a biodiesel
generator :^)

cordialement,
Philippe

Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
 http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Farver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: Re: battery trailer


> Don M wrote:
>
> >Trailers like this used to be common back in the 50's
> >and 60's.  I'm sure someone still makes them somewhere
> >on earth.
> >
> >
> >
> For motorcycle hauling:
> http://cruiserlift.com/swivelwheel.html
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 09:47:14AM -0700, Electro Automotive wrote:
> At 08:49 PM 8/14/2006, you wrote:
<..snip..>
> >I believe older litium ion cells had more of an issue than the newer
> >versions. How many RECENT fires ?
> 
> How about the millions of notebooks Dell is currently recalling for this 
> issue?

The Dell recall you are referring to is for AC adapters, not batteries or 
laptops.

http://www.engadget.com/2004/10/09/dell-recalls-a-million-laptop-ac-adapters/
https://www.delladapterprogram.com/Main.aspx

The Dell recall of 27000 batteries in 2000 might be more interesting for this
discussion.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls/dell.html

Here is a Dell exploding in June 2006. It's unclear if this was caused by the
batteries, but that seems most likely.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550

Thanks!

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Larry,

I am not the list administrator nor your boss however as a small business owner 
I had to reply.

Although I feel for your experience I also believe your email is an example of 
impatient on your part allowing for shipping time, and the return and/or 
refunds requested. As in all business it is Caveat Emptor when it comes to 
buying anything even a new car. Where a company can make or break their long 
term success is through how they handle issues like yours. I would not be happy 
with how this was handled but then again I don't have any expectations in this 
regard when it comes to grass-roots type of business. You take what you get in 
many cases right or wrong.

Whatever you may feel this is really not the medium to properly resolve your 
issues in the manner you have taken. As an educator or administrator within the 
education system you have the power to shape our leaders of tomorrow by 
example. This wasn't it. I hope you can work this out to your satisfaction. 
Certainly we all wish you the best success in driving electric.

Regards

Pedroman
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 9:35 AM
Subject: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning


> Hi EV Enthusiast,
> 
> This message is concerning the fraudulent and poor business practices of 
> Wilderness Electric Vehicle, Wilderness E.V., Wilderness EV, Owner Brain 
> Barrett, 380 S 370 E, Lehi, Utah 840443, PO Box 504, Lehi, Utah 84043 
> 801-628-6509, [EMAIL PROTECTED], www.e-volks.com and the number two kit for 
> Ford Festiva.
> 
> I sent a check for $2,089.00 to Wilderness EV after several chats on the 
> phone. One month later I received the motor, plate and coupler. No motor 
> mount so I built my own. Several more weeks go buy and a couple of failed 
> follow up phone calls, to my surprise I received the rest of the parts except 
> the 0-5K pot.  The battery terminals were wrong for the Trojan T-105 I was 
> going to use and the 0-100 volt gauge was just cheap. I finally was able to 
> get a hold of Wilderness EV and asked for a return number for the battery 
> terminals and gauge and asked about the pot. Brian gave me a return number 
> for the parts and said he would give me credit for the motor mount and send 
> me a check. He also said the pot was on back order and would be sent out 
> within a few days.  Two weeks later no parts, no refund check, and no 
> returned phone calls. I sent him two letters which said,
> 
> "I have returned the following parts for refund on July 26, 2006.
> Voltmeter $48.00
> Battery cable terminals $32
> I asked for a credit for motor mount $20
> I have not received as of this date and have ordered for EVPart 0-5 K Pot $86 
> on my own via EVParts.
> Please remit to me a total of $186 within in one week of this date.
> Possible natural consequences of failure to comply will be:
>            1. Contact local business license office
>            2. Negative complaint with local Utah Better Business Bureau
>            3. Letter to Utah Attorney General for mail fraud
>                        This is a problem for you since I sent a check to you 
> though the mail.
>            4. Your name, business will be placed on all EV web blogs and 
> sites as a warning
>            5. Small claims court
> I am taking this action because of your business has poor bed side manners. 
> You don't return phone calls or follow up with emails as promised by your web 
> site."
> 
> Within three days I receive a phone call from Brian and he said he had just 
> sent out the pot and the refund check and even gave me a tracking number.  I 
> received both within a few days. I returned the pot to EVParts. (These are 
> good folks.)
> 
> I completed my 93 Ford Festiva EV within a few days and took it for a 5 mile 
> spin. 
> The car goes 35 miles an hour on flat level which is great except with one 
> slight problem.  The take off acceleration from stop is extremely slow to the 
> point of being very dangerous from being rear ended and if starting from a 
> slight 1 degree incline it will not move at all.  The 48 volt configuration 
> just doesn't work as advertised on his web site which states "the 
> acceleration is as good or better than the original VW engine at 48vdc" 
> Wilderness EV needs to be put out of business for selling a system that 
> doesn't work.  I was shafted.  Anyway, to my solve the problem I'm going to 
> have to convert what I have to a 72 volt system which requires me changing 
> out the eight like new Trojan T-105 for six 12 volt Trojans. I just can't add 
> more batteries because of weight limitations.  I am also going to have to 
> change out the controller. Everything else should work. I will need to spend 
> $700 for new batteries and $700 for a 72 volt controller.  I will have to 
> sell the used T-105!
  a!
> nd 48 volt controller.
> 
> Larry Roberts
> Kennewick, Washington
> 
> 
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Actually Nick, there is a more recent issue going on here. Dell is recalling 
about 4.1 million
batteries worldwide, 2.7 in the US.  This is now, not back in 2004. Here's a 
link;

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060815/tc_nm/dell_batteries_dc_13

--- Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 09:47:14AM -0700, Electro Automotive wrote:
> > At 08:49 PM 8/14/2006, you wrote:
> <..snip..>
> > >I believe older litium ion cells had more of an issue than the newer
> > >versions. How many RECENT fires ?
> > 
> > How about the millions of notebooks Dell is currently recalling for this 
> > issue?
> 
> The Dell recall you are referring to is for AC adapters, not batteries or 
> laptops.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2004/10/09/dell-recalls-a-million-laptop-ac-adapters/
> https://www.delladapterprogram.com/Main.aspx
> 
> The Dell recall of 27000 batteries in 2000 might be more interesting for this
> discussion.
> 
> http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls/dell.html
> 
> Here is a Dell exploding in June 2006. It's unclear if this was caused by the
> batteries, but that seems most likely.
> 
> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550
> 
> Thanks!
> 
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- I'm not sure what the point of this mild rebuke is, but the EV Wilderness people have been discussed on this list several times in the past, often with the idea, of those who try them out reporting their experience back to the list. Now we have some feedback. 

damon



From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:07:19 -0400

Larry,
I am not the list administrator nor your boss however as a small business owner I had to reply.
Although I feel for your experience I also believe your email is an example of impatient on your part allowing for shipping time, and the return and/or refunds requested. As in all business it is Caveat Emptor when it comes to buying anything even a new car. Where a company can make or break their long term success is through how they handle issues like yours. I would not be happy with how this was handled but then again I don't have any expectations in this regard when it comes to grass-roots type of business. You take what you get in many cases right or wrong.
Whatever you may feel this is really not the medium to properly resolve your issues in the manner you have taken. As an educator or administrator within the education system you have the power to shape our leaders of tomorrow by example. This wasn't it. I hope you can work this out to your satisfaction. Certainly we all wish you the best success in driving electric. 

Regards

Pedroman
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 9:35 AM
Subject: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning


> Hi EV Enthusiast,
>
> This message is concerning the fraudulent and poor business practices of Wilderness Electric Vehicle, Wilderness E.V., Wilderness EV, Owner Brain Barrett, 380 S 370 E, Lehi, Utah 840443, PO Box 504, Lehi, Utah 84043 801-628-6509, [EMAIL PROTECTED], www.e-volks.com and the number two kit for Ford Festiva. 
>
> I sent a check for $2,089.00 to Wilderness EV after several chats on the phone. One month later I received the motor, plate and coupler. No motor mount so I built my own. Several more weeks go buy and a couple of failed follow up phone calls, to my surprise I received the rest of the parts except the 0-5K pot. The battery terminals were wrong for the Trojan T-105 I was going to use and the 0-100 volt gauge was just cheap. I finally was able to get a hold of Wilderness EV and asked for a return number for the battery terminals and gauge and asked about the pot. Brian gave me a return number for the parts and said he would give me credit for the motor mount and send me a check. He also said the pot was on back order and would be sent out within a few days. Two weeks later no parts, no refund check, and no returned phone calls. I sent him two letters which said, 
>
> "I have returned the following parts for refund on July 26, 2006.
> Voltmeter $48.00
> Battery cable terminals $32
> I asked for a credit for motor mount $20
> I have not received as of this date and have ordered for EVPart 0-5 K Pot $86 on my own via EVParts. 
> Please remit to me a total of $186 within in one week of this date.
> Possible natural consequences of failure to comply will be:
>            1. Contact local business license office
>            2. Negative complaint with local Utah Better Business Bureau
>            3. Letter to Utah Attorney General for mail fraud
> This is a problem for you since I sent a check to you though the mail. > 4. Your name, business will be placed on all EV web blogs and sites as a warning 
>            5. Small claims court
> I am taking this action because of your business has poor bed side manners. You don't return phone calls or follow up with emails as promised by your web site." 
>
> Within three days I receive a phone call from Brian and he said he had just sent out the pot and the refund check and even gave me a tracking number. I received both within a few days. I returned the pot to EVParts. (These are good folks.) 
>
> I completed my 93 Ford Festiva EV within a few days and took it for a 5 mile spin. > The car goes 35 miles an hour on flat level which is great except with one slight problem. The take off acceleration from stop is extremely slow to the point of being very dangerous from being rear ended and if starting from a slight 1 degree incline it will not move at all. The 48 volt configuration just doesn't work as advertised on his web site which states "the acceleration is as good or better than the original VW engine at 48vdc" Wilderness EV needs to be put out of business for selling a system that doesn't work. I was shafted. Anyway, to my solve the problem I'm going to have to convert what I have to a 72 volt system which requires me changing out the eight like new Trojan T-105 for six 12 volt Trojans. I just can't add more batteries because of weight limitations. I am also going to have to change out the controller. Everything else should work. I will need to spend $700 for new batteries and $700 for a 72 volt controller. I will have to sell the used T-105! 
  a!
> nd 48 volt controller.
>
> Larry Roberts
> Kennewick, Washington
>
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 12:20:31PM -0700, Nick Austin wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 09:47:14AM -0700, Electro Automotive wrote:
> > At 08:49 PM 8/14/2006, you wrote:
> <..snip..>
> > >I believe older litium ion cells had more of an issue than the newer
> > >versions. How many RECENT fires ?
> > 
> > How about the millions of notebooks Dell is currently recalling for this 
> > issue?
> 
> The Dell recall you are referring to is for AC adapters, not batteries or 
> laptops.

Looks like I jumped the gun. Just today news of a huge liion battery recall
from Dell is hitting the wires.

From:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-dell15aug15,0,6601768.story

Dell to Issue Battery Recall
After reports that some of its laptops overheated and caught fire, the company
will recall the lithium-ion batteries made by Sony.

Dell Inc., the world's largest computer maker, acknowledged Monday that it
would recall 4.1 million notebook computer batteries because they can overheat
and sometimes catch fire. It would be the largest recall in the history of the
consumer electronics industry.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
"Anyone on the list actually made a battery trailer??"
 
I did.  Had one custom made for $400.  Naturally, the need for extra range 
evaporated right after we bought it.  Fortunately, it was still quite useful.
 
The guy put a 3500 lb. rated axle on it, used extra heavy steel angle all 
around at the height I specified, and it used regular 15" rims.  We only used 
it for batteries once, but it certainly paid for itself - carried 20 T-125's to 
the recycling center.  We wound up using it for other stuff so much that it 
never got used for an extra pack.  We wound up trading it to a former neighbor, 
who now uses it for his lawnmower, after he changed the rear to have a ramp 
instead of a fixed safety rail.
 
David Brandt

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Posting value-neutral reports of one's experience with a vendor is a 
reasonable and proper use of this list.  However, alleging that a vendor is 
guilty of fraud is, IMO, potentially hazardous.  

Remember - and I address this to everyone - this list is archived in several 
places.  Many of them are not under control of anyone on this list.  When 
you post here, you are making a public statement that cannot be revoked.  It 
will remain in the public record indefinitely - 10 years, 20 years, perhaps 
forever - for anyone to see.  Search engines are remarkably efficient at 
indexing words one may later wish he hadn't said!

I'm not going to say "don't do this," but I do want all listers to be aware of 
possible legal or other consequences of posts.  If in doubt about this matter, 
it's not a bad idea to either use prudence and restraint, or consult an 
attorney 
first.  

I'm not kidding about this.  Think twice before you hit that SEND button.

David Roden
EV List Assistant Administrator

To contact me privately offlist, do not reply to this message.  See my contact 
information on http://www.evdl.org/help/

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Folks...didn't the EV list warn about doing a on road EV with too little
power??
48 volts is barley enough to stay at 50 mph.
I know my first was a 48 volt starter gen with .....2500 amps of controller.
Even at 72 volts you will be underwhelmed...

At 96 you can get the job done... with few excuses.
I would not do a on road EV with less than 120 volts...  Sorry Shari... just
makin' my points...

This is the kind of thing we need to educate folks on... there are practical
reasons why most of us don't do these kind of things..
It's not that I am a EV street racer... or amp head.. just the practical
side says reasonable levels of power are needed.. and 48 volts needs 4
digits of amps to move 2000 lbs of Street EV.
Don't get rid of your T-105s.. just get more of them.

Madman
    We need to guide the newbies a little better folks...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning


> Larry,
>

> > Within three days I receive a phone call from Brian and he said he had
just sent out the pot and the refund check and even gave me a tracking
number.  I received both within a few days. I returned the pot to EVParts.
(These are good folks.)
> >
> > I completed my 93 Ford Festiva EV within a few days and took it for a 5
mile spin.
> > The car goes 35 miles an hour on flat level which is great except with
one slight problem.  The take off acceleration from stop is extremely slow
to the point of being very dangerous from being rear ended and if starting
from a slight 1 degree incline it will not move at all.  The 48 volt
configuration just doesn't work as advertised on his web site which states
"the acceleration is as good or better than the original VW engine at 48vdc"
Wilderness EV needs to be put out of business for selling a system that
doesn't work.  I was shafted.  Anyway, to my solve the problem I'm going to
have to convert what I have to a 72 volt system which requires me changing
out the eight like new Trojan T-105 for six 12 volt Trojans. I just can't
add more batteries because of weight limitations.  I am also going to have
to change out the controller. Everything else should work. I will need to
spend $700 for new batteries and $700 for a 72 volt controller.  I will have
to sell the used T-105!
>   a!
> > nd 48 volt controller.
> >
> > Larry Roberts
> > Kennewick, Washington
> >
> >
> >
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Anyone have any info/experience on this motor ?

http://www.moderndcmotors.com/

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Hello to All,

MIKE WILLMON wrote:
Hey, a NEDRA EVent in Alaska would be cool!!! Putting a vehicle on the barge out of Seattle or Portland would be the cheapest and easiest way to go. You'd fly in to race (and enjoy the sights for a few days) and I could arrange to get trucks and car haulers volunteered to get you to the track.
Careful what you wish for. I can see the NEDRA race title now....'Alaskan Amps...EV drag racing under the midnight sun!' Seriously, I'd come back to Anchorage in a heartbeat! I'm sure it wouldn't take much arm-twisting to get Father Time and Rudman to show up, either. 


See Ya....John Wayland

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Hello to All,
There's been a frenzy of media coverage lately over EV drag racing, and in particular, over White Zombie's routine weekend drag racing runs against the gasser boys. A certain well known car magazine has been in contact (can't release details right now), Dateline Australia was here, and last night a reporter from Oregon's biggest newspaper 'The Oregonian' spent time with me and the little Datsun from Hell.
It seems that the battery problems we had at the Wayland Invitational a few weeks ago where we blew up a Hawker, are behind us now, and it was just one weak battery that let go. We had replaced it with a pre-cycled spare Hawker and had carefully worked the pack back up into equalization with numerous 10-15 mile road drives, long low amperage charging, then several high current discharges and heavy charge cycles. We raced this past weekend and got four 12 second runs in without a single battery problem. Following Friday night's racing, I've been driving the Zombie every day and the 360V pack of Hawkers are beautifully equalized and sit at 392-393V. They're rock'n hard and are performing at high levels of power.
Fast forward to the best part....Oregonian sports writer Doug Binder's ride in White Zombie. So....I'd been trying to explain to him the way the car launches from rest and how even against really powerful gas cars known to run 0-60 in 4 seconds or so, my EV is 4-5 car lengths ahead of them at 60 mph. I told him the Zombie's 0-60 time is estimated to be somewhere in the mid 3's. He's a nice guy, so no disrespect is intended, but I just don't think he got it. He evidently, had no idea what the car would really be like.
Anyway...it was a hot day, so the recently repaved asphalt on Burnside was warm and sticky. We rounded a corner and just when I had straightened out the Zombie and was rolling at about 5 mph, I planted my right foot down hard! To my surprise, instead of the usual 100 feet of constant wheel spin and copious tire smoke, the damn thing simple stuck and did a wheel stand, instantly slamming the poor guy into his seat as both his eyes were big as saucers as he was now looking through the windshield at the sky instead of the road. When the front end came back down, it unloaded the rear tires a bit and they were breaking loose and squealing as we rushed up to speed. It was about the best power demo I could have hoped for! He was at the same time, in a state of shock, scared absolutely sh....tless, and yet, had the biggest EV grin I think I've ever seen...well, OK, Matt's was pretty big, too! I almost felt bad, because he was shaking a bit afterwards. He told me he had never, ever been in a car that accelerated like that...ever! He said it was more like an amusement park ride :-)
The best news for the Late Night Nationals coming up the 25th & 26th next weekend, is that the article will be the lead feature on Thursday the 24th the day before the races, in the Oregonian's sports section...great pre-race PR! An Oregonian camera man is scheduled to be at the Wayland EV juice bar this Sunday to take the photo that will appear. I think a line-locked full tire burn is in order. 
I can hardly wait to read Doug Binder's write-up.

See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland

http://www.plasmaboyracing.com

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
I have had issues with WE but drive my 48 volt geo daily.  enough 
speed and acceleration for me and my community.

got to 53mph (flat) the other day but using too many amps.  I like 
30 - 45

I have no affilation with WE or E-volks ....


--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Folks...didn't the EV list warn about doing a on road EV with too 
little
> power??
> 48 volts is barley enough to stay at 50 mph.
> I know my first was a 48 volt starter gen with .....2500 amps of 
controller.
> Even at 72 volts you will be underwhelmed...
> 
> At 96 you can get the job done... with few excuses.
> I would not do a on road EV with less than 120 volts...  Sorry 
Shari... just
> makin' my points...
> 
> This is the kind of thing we need to educate folks on... there are 
practical
> reasons why most of us don't do these kind of things..
> It's not that I am a EV street racer... or amp head.. just the 
practical
> side says reasonable levels of power are needed.. and 48 volts 
needs 4
> digits of amps to move 2000 lbs of Street EV.
> Don't get rid of your T-105s.. just get more of them.
> 
> Madman
>     We need to guide the newbies a little better folks...
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
> 
> 
> > Larry,
> >
> 
> > > Within three days I receive a phone call from Brian and he 
said he had
> just sent out the pot and the refund check and even gave me a 
tracking
> number.  I received both within a few days. I returned the pot to 
EVParts.
> (These are good folks.)
> > >
> > > I completed my 93 Ford Festiva EV within a few days and took 
it for a 5
> mile spin.
> > > The car goes 35 miles an hour on flat level which is great 
except with
> one slight problem.  The take off acceleration from stop is 
extremely slow
> to the point of being very dangerous from being rear ended and if 
starting
> from a slight 1 degree incline it will not move at all.  The 48 
volt
> configuration just doesn't work as advertised on his web site 
which states
> "the acceleration is as good or better than the original VW engine 
at 48vdc"
> Wilderness EV needs to be put out of business for selling a system 
that
> doesn't work.  I was shafted.  Anyway, to my solve the problem I'm 
going to
> have to convert what I have to a 72 volt system which requires me 
changing
> out the eight like new Trojan T-105 for six 12 volt Trojans. I 
just can't
> add more batteries because of weight limitations.  I am also going 
to have
> to change out the controller. Everything else should work. I will 
need to
> spend $700 for new batteries and $700 for a 72 volt controller.  I 
will have
> to sell the used T-105!
> >   a!
> > > nd 48 volt controller.
> > >
> > > Larry Roberts
> > > Kennewick, Washington
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Anyone have any experience doing this ??

On a 48 volt system ...  panels and vehicle ...   any reccomendation on 
a charge controller ?

  These are nice but ???

http://www.affordable-solar.com/outback.mx60.mppt.charge.controller.htm



good article ...

http://www.affordable-solar.com/charge.controllers.htm

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--- Begin Message --- 
Here is the end-all site for singlewheel trailers.  You guessed it:  
http://www.singlewheel.com/
 
However, a tiny trailer isn't hard to back up if you extend the tongue, 
preferably with a hinged or telescopic setup to enable easy storage.  A 
telescoping tongue can be done easily with two pieces of pipe, a drill, and 
hitch pins.  You should certainly be able to go far enough back to see the top 
of your trailer thru the rearview and still not have to swing wide in turns.  
 
I've pondered a singlewheel without the dual hitch mount.  The Cruiserlift 
http://www.cruiserlift.com/swivelwheelfaq.html offers an adaptor for 
conventional single 2" center-mount receivers.  I don't know if they'd sell the 
swivel unit alone.  If the load is kept on-axis and narrow, a purpose-built 
singlewheel battery trailer should operate fine through a single 2" receiver 
hitch, the hitch being beefily hinged for vertical movement (NOT side-side).  
The 2" receiver may need more reinforcing for lateral loads than I've seen on 
some, but I've subjected mine to some pretty hairy loads when turning 
(including a jacknife), and no bent frames yet...
 
This setup would make short tongues an asset instead of a liability, yet still 
allow the trailer to be towed by pretty much any vehicle with a class III 
receiver (though the hitch height should be maintained to keep the trailer 
level, for proper swivel operation).  The main disadvantage I see is that the 
swivelwheel tends to dictate a high load floor, unless tongue weight is 
increased by pushing the swivel rearwards, or the swivel is recessed in a box 
that takes up a good bit of the cargo space.  Again, lost cargo space and a 
hump in the floor is not much liability on a battery trailer.  It would be easy 
to put a 'false floor' as the battery trailer's top, and allow for limited 
additional cargo, like bicycles, an ice chest or footlocker, etc..
 
Cheers, 
Jay Donnaway
www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
 
________________________________________________________________________
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. 
All on demand. Always Free.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Made by lots of different manufactures.
http://www.singlewheel.com/



At 12:13 PM 8/15/2006, you wrote:

Here are my friend's comments on that trailer I
mentioned:

I haven't seen trailers like that in years.  It was
really small, like maybe 4 feet wide by 5 feet long.
It had short sides, maybe 18" high, like a box with no
top.  It had steel brackets on the sides for tall
wooden sides, which he occasionally used.  That
wouldn't matter for batteries.

The hitch on the front was a bar that ran the full
width of the trailer and was welded to two brackets on
either end.  It was a hollow steel tube, probably 1.5
inches in diameter.

He had two brackets that bolted to the rear bumper of
the car which accepted the mounting bar on the
trailer.  That way the trailer and the car could
negotiate the crests of hills, etc, with the hitch
acting like a horizontal pivot.

The wheel was located about 2/3 of the way back on the
bottom of the trailer.  It was about the size of a
snowmobile trailer tire.  It was mounted like a
caster, it could turn 360.

I could draw a picture if this isn't clear.

My only concern using something like that for
batteries is that the single tire might not be up to
the load.  You could use two separate caster-mounted
wheels, I think, without screwing up cornering.

Trailers like this used to be common back in the 50's
and 60's.  I'm sure someone still makes them somewhere
on earth.





__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
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--- Begin Message --- 
John Wayland wrote:


Hello to All,

MIKE WILLMON wrote:
Hey, a NEDRA EVent in Alaska would be cool!!! Putting a vehicle on the barge out of Seattle or Portland would be the cheapest and easiest way to go. You'd fly in to race (and enjoy the sights for a few days) and I could arrange to get trucks and car haulers volunteered to get you to the track.
Careful what you wish for. I can see the NEDRA race title now....'Alaskan Amps...EV drag racing under the midnight sun!' Seriously, I'd come back to Anchorage in a heartbeat! I'm sure it wouldn't take much arm-twisting to get Father Time and Rudman to show up, either.
According to mapquest.com Portland to Anchorage is 2571 miles. Portland to Joliet, IL was 2108 miles... 

Maybe you could load the cars aboard a train?

Mark Farver

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Yes, thats the idea.

It'll be real damn small.  I also need to consult with the road authorities
to see if it can be registered etc. But towing a portable biodiesel
generator would be ideal. Diesel gensets weigh a tonne.

Now, i just need to get my hands on a diesel genset.

Cheers all


On 16/08/06, Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Yes a tiny trailer is almost impossible to back-up.

Since we're building one though.... How about we make it two hitch points
and one wheel(caster) instead of one hitch and two wheels. Backing up is
now
not an issue, it will swing with the rear.  We could even shape it with
the
proper taper to actually improve the overall aero and reduce the whr's
consumed by the car. Cornering swing will be different, but I'm picturing
a
trailer thats only around 5 feet off the car.

--
Stay Charged!
Hump

GE I-5
Blossvale, NY


>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Don M
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:07 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: battery trailer
>
> I checked out your car on the Ev album.  Cool car.
>
> I would think an appropriately small aluminum frame trailer would be
great.
> I don't know if you see any aluminum trailers in Oz.  Here in the US
there
> are snowmobile and other small utility trailers made of aluminum
structural
> members with steel only being used in the axles, springs, hitch coupler,
and
> nuts/bolts.
>
> It IS real hard to back up a tiny trailer.  Virtually impossible.
>
> -Don M
>
> --- Robert Chew &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]&gt; wrote:
>
> &gt; Yo,
> &gt;
> &gt; My current battery pack weight is 180 kg. My battery pack is not
> &gt; nearly the same weights as the large american conversions. I only
want
> &gt; a trailer that can handle 200 kg. So a motorbike trailer is
suitable
> &gt; for this job.
> &gt;
>
>

________________________________________________
Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.9

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
Hi Larry

Sorry to hear about your travails per EV.  I think it was
Lawrence Rhodes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) on the EVDL that set
up a nice Ford Festiva (before it got rear-ended by some guy in
an SUV whose dog stepped in his lap and distracted him) and is,
if I recall, building another one.  Lawrence is in San Francisco,
and you know how hilly that is.  So you might contact Lawrence
for info, assuming you two have not contacted each other already.

Chuck

Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 6:35 AM
Subject: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning


> Hi EV Enthusiast,
>
> This message is concerning the fraudulent and poor business
practices of Wilderness Electric Vehicle, Wilderness E.V.,
Wilderness EV, Owner Brain Barrett, 380 S 370 E, Lehi, Utah
840443, PO Box 504, Lehi, Utah 84043 801-628-6509,
[EMAIL PROTECTED], www.e-volks.com and the number two kit for
Ford Festiva.
>
> I sent a check for $2,089.00 to Wilderness EV after several
chats on the phone. One month later I received the motor, plate
and coupler. No motor mount so I built my own. Several more weeks
go buy and a couple of failed follow up phone calls, to my
surprise I received the rest of the parts except the 0-5K pot.
The battery terminals were wrong for the Trojan T-105 I was going
to use and the 0-100 volt gauge was just cheap. I finally was
able to get a hold of Wilderness EV and asked for a return number
for the battery terminals and gauge and asked about the pot.
Brian gave me a return number for the parts and said he would
give me credit for the motor mount and send me a check. He also
said the pot was on back order and would be sent out within a few
days.  Two weeks later no parts, no refund check, and no returned
phone calls. I sent him two letters which said,
>
> "I have returned the following parts for refund on July 26,
2006.
> Voltmeter $48.00
> Battery cable terminals $32
> I asked for a credit for motor mount $20
> I have not received as of this date and have ordered for EVPart
0-5 K Pot $86 on my own via EVParts.
> Please remit to me a total of $186 within in one week of this
date.
> Possible natural consequences of failure to comply will be:
>             1. Contact local business license office
>             2. Negative complaint with local Utah Better
Business Bureau
>             3. Letter to Utah Attorney General for mail fraud
>                         This is a problem for you since I sent
a check to you though the mail.
>             4. Your name, business will be placed on all EV web
blogs and sites as a warning
>             5. Small claims court
> I am taking this action because of your business has poor bed
side manners. You don't return phone calls or follow up with
emails as promised by your web site."
>
> Within three days I receive a phone call from Brian and he said
he had just sent out the pot and the refund check and even gave
me a tracking number.  I received both within a few days. I
returned the pot to EVParts. (These are good folks.)
>
> I completed my 93 Ford Festiva EV within a few days and took it
for a 5 mile spin.
> The car goes 35 miles an hour on flat level which is great
except with one slight problem.  The take off acceleration from
stop is extremely slow to the point of being very dangerous from
being rear ended and if starting from a slight 1 degree incline
it will not move at all.  The 48 volt configuration just doesn't
work as advertised on his web site which states "the acceleration
is as good or better than the original VW engine at 48vdc"
Wilderness EV needs to be put out of business for selling a
system that doesn't work.  I was shafted.  Anyway, to my solve
the problem I'm going to have to convert what I have to a 72 volt
system which requires me changing out the eight like new Trojan
T-105 for six 12 volt Trojans. I just can't add more batteries
because of weight limitations.  I am also going to have to change
out the controller. Everything else should work. I will need to
spend $700 for new batteries and $700 for a 72 volt controller.
I will have to sell the used T-105 a!
>  nd 48 volt controller.
>
> Larry Roberts
> Kennewick, Washington
>
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
> Anyone have any info/experience on this motor ?
> 
> http://www.moderndcmotors.com/

Man, that seems like it would be a good motor for a small motorcycle 
conversion. Maybe
even a high performance electric bicycle...

--
joe

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
super-ebike is what I'm thinking :)
The problem with an ebike is that it can't look like it has too much stuff on it or you're going to get the attention of the (village) police. 
--
Martin K

Joe Vitek wrote:

Anyone have any info/experience on this motor ?

http://www.moderndcmotors.com/


Man, that seems like it would be a good motor for a small motorcycle 
conversion. Maybe
even a high performance electric bicycle...

--
joe

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 

On Aug 13, 2006, at 7:52 PM, Ricky Suiter wrote:
Some updated pictures. I went ahead with my original color selection, the Saturn "Electric Lime" color or as PPG called it "Fine Sublime". I also kept the original idea to two tone it and keep the bottom silver. I picked out another Saturn silver, I think it was their "Silver Nickel" color, but reguardless they both have A LOT of pearl in them and it looks fantastic together. I'm glad I two toned it because it kind of breaks it up, I think full green might have been a bit much. The pictures it looks more yellow than it really is. It is deffinitely lime green. I just got it back together today, less of course the rear and quarter glass panels I had taken out to get the edges of the roof (they were comming out eventually anyway). I'm going to venture out and find some lexan and attempt making some lexan replacement windows for the rear and quarter glass panels.
Sorry for the late reply, I just got back online after about a week without service. <Grrr>
The pictures look great. It appears that you found very favorable colors for your car (though I prefer purple and black <evalbum.com/125.html> :-) 

I would advise against going with plastic windows:
Glass is a part of the structure of many modern cars (bonded in glass anyway.)
Even the best silicone hardened polycarbonate is not as scratch resistant as glass (and that stuff is expensive.)
Most modern auto glass has compound curves that tent to flatline when you put in plastic. In other words, I fear poor aesthetics.
The weight savings are not significant to range. I would bet you could get more by creating a 24 volt battery bank for your 12v system with a 14 volt DC to DC to power the 12v system. (that thought occurred to me recently because of the lack of EV DC>DC converters and the fact that a number of 24>12 volt converters to at least 60 amps are available for less than $200.) 

HTH,
Paul "neon" G.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:28:52 -0500, you wrote:

>Don M wrote:
>
>>Trailers like this used to be common back in the 50's
>>and 60's.  I'm sure someone still makes them somewhere

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=441&pricetype=

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- 
That is just the charger, you still have to have a large array of solar 
panels to go with that.  There is a company here in Montana that assembles 
these type of units which are normally used in remote areas that do not have 
a power grid.

These houses that have these solar panels, have the whole roof cover, or is 
the roof of a building.

Each cell is about 6 inches in diameter and puts out 1 volt at 1 amp.

For a 250 volt system at 50 amps, we are talking about 50 strings of 250 
cells.

Each cell un-assemble cost about $10.00 each.  So we now have $10.00 x 50 x 
250 = $125,000.00.

You can get these units in a 30 cell enclosurer which cost about $500.00 
each.  You need 416 of these modules which now cost you  $208,333.00.

On top of that, they use a large bank of 450 AH batteries for 250 Volts, 
which these solar cells charge while the demand is not high.   The batteries 
are than used through a inverter systems to maintain the power at night.

I had one guy ask me, why don't you run your electric car on solar cells.  I 
said, I would need about 2500 sq. ft of the solar cells, which would weigh 
over 20,000 lbs not including a support structure that would weigh another 
7000 lbs.

So that does not work for me.

Roland




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:21 PM
Subject: Solar charging an EV - off grid


> Anyone have any experience doing this ??
>
> On a 48 volt system ...  panels and vehicle ...   any reccomendation on
> a charge controller ?
>
>   These are nice but ???
>
> http://www.affordable-solar.com/outback.mx60.mppt.charge.controller.htm
>
>
>
> good article ...
>
> http://www.affordable-solar.com/charge.controllers.htm
>
>
>
>

--- End Message ---

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