EV Digest 5759
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
by "Don Cameron \(New Beetle EV\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
by "Don Cameron \(New Beetle EV\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Oregonian Reporter Gets Zombied!
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Who Killed the Electric Car
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
by "David Sherritze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV digest 5758
by DM3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: bolt pattern info - Blazer
by John Nicholson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Oregonian Reporter Gets Zombied!
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Larry, I have been looking at their web site, but cannot find the claims
about the 48V being the same acceleration (or performance) as the original
motor. Can you please clarify?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> Hi EV Enthusiast,
>
> This message is concerning the fraudulent and poor business practices of
> Wilderness Electric Vehicle, Wilderness E.V., Wilderness EV, Owner Brain
> Barrett, 380 S 370 E, Lehi, Utah 840443, PO Box 504, Lehi, Utah 84043
> 801-628-6509, [EMAIL PROTECTED], www.e-volks.com and the number two kit
> for Ford Festiva.
>
> I sent a check for $2,089.00 to Wilderness EV after several chats on the
> phone. One month later I received the motor, plate and coupler. No motor
> mount so I built my own. Several more weeks go buy and a couple of failed
> follow up phone calls, to my surprise I received the rest of the parts except
> the 0-5K pot. The battery terminals were wrong for the Trojan T-105 I was
> going to use and the 0-100 volt gauge was just cheap. I finally was able to
> get a hold of Wilderness EV and asked for a return number for the battery
> terminals and gauge and asked about the pot. Brian gave me a return number
> for the parts and said he would give me credit for the motor mount and send
> me a check. He also said the pot was on back order and would be sent out
> within a few days. Two weeks later no parts, no refund check, and no
> returned phone calls. I sent him two letters which said,
>
> "I have returned the following parts for refund on July 26, 2006.
> Voltmeter $48.00
> Battery cable terminals $32
> I asked for a credit for motor mount $20
> I have not received as of this date and have ordered for EVPart 0-5 K Pot $86
> on my own via EVParts.
> Please remit to me a total of $186 within in one week of this date.
> Possible natural consequences of failure to comply will be:
> 1. Contact local business license office
> 2. Negative complaint with local Utah Better Business Bureau
> 3. Letter to Utah Attorney General for mail fraud
> This is a problem for you since I sent a check to you
> though the mail.
> 4. Your name, business will be placed on all EV web blogs and
> sites as a warning
> 5. Small claims court
> I am taking this action because of your business has poor bed side manners.
> You don't return phone calls or follow up with emails as promised by your web
> site."
>
> Within three days I receive a phone call from Brian and he said he had just
> sent out the pot and the refund check and even gave me a tracking number. I
> received both within a few days. I returned the pot to EVParts. (These are
> good folks.)
>
> I completed my 93 Ford Festiva EV within a few days and took it for a 5 mile
> spin.
> The car goes 35 miles an hour on flat level which is great except with one
> slight problem. The take off acceleration from stop is extremely slow to the
> point of being very dangerous from being rear ended and if starting from a
> slight 1 degree incline it will not move at all. The 48 volt configuration
> just doesn't work as advertised on his web site which states "the
> acceleration is as good or better than the original VW engine at 48vdc"
> Wilderness EV needs to be put out of business for selling a system that
> doesn't work. I was shafted. Anyway, to my solve the problem I'm going to
> have to convert what I have to a 72 volt system which requires me changing
> out the eight like new Trojan T-105 for six 12 volt Trojans. I just can't add
> more batteries because of weight limitations. I am also going to have to
> change out the controller. Everything else should work. I will need to spend
> $700 for new batteries and $700 for a 72 volt controller. I will have to
> sell the used T-105 a!
> nd 48 volt controller.
>
> Larry Roberts
> Kennewick, Washington
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you missed the point, he was not intending to resolve the problem on
the net, he was helping others : buyer beware.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> Larry,
>
> I am not the list administrator nor your boss however as a small business
> owner I had to reply.
>
> Although I feel for your experience I also believe your email is an example
> of impatient on your part allowing for shipping time, and the return and/or
> refunds requested. As in all business it is Caveat Emptor when it comes to
> buying anything even a new car. Where a company can make or break their long
> term success is through how they handle issues like yours. I would not be
> happy with how this was handled but then again I don't have any expectations
> in this regard when it comes to grass-roots type of business. You take what
> you get in many cases right or wrong.
>
> Whatever you may feel this is really not the medium to properly resolve your
> issues in the manner you have taken. As an educator or administrator within
> the education system you have the power to shape our leaders of tomorrow by
> example. This wasn't it. I hope you can work this out to your satisfaction.
> Certainly we all wish you the best success in driving electric.
>
> Regards
>
> Pedroman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 9:35 AM
> Subject: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
>
>
> > Hi EV Enthusiast,
> >
> > This message is concerning the fraudulent and poor business practices of
> Wilderness Electric Vehicle, Wilderness E.V., Wilderness EV, Owner Brain
> Barrett, 380 S 370 E, Lehi, Utah 840443, PO Box 504, Lehi, Utah 84043
> 801-628-6509, [EMAIL PROTECTED], www.e-volks.com and the number two kit
> for Ford Festiva.
> >
> > I sent a check for $2,089.00 to Wilderness EV after several chats on the
> phone. One month later I received the motor, plate and coupler. No motor
> mount so I built my own. Several more weeks go buy and a couple of failed
> follow up phone calls, to my surprise I received the rest of the parts except
> the 0-5K pot. The battery terminals were wrong for the Trojan T-105 I was
> going to use and the 0-100 volt gauge was just cheap. I finally was able to
> get a hold of Wilderness EV and asked for a return number for the battery
> terminals and gauge and asked about the pot. Brian gave me a return number
> for the parts and said he would give me credit for the motor mount and send
> me a check. He also said the pot was on back order and would be sent out
> within a few days. Two weeks later no parts, no refund check, and no
> returned phone calls. I sent him two letters which said,
> >
> > "I have returned the following parts for refund on July 26, 2006.
> > Voltmeter $48.00
> > Battery cable terminals $32
> > I asked for a credit for motor mount $20
> > I have not received as of this date and have ordered for EVPart 0-5 K Pot
> $86 on my own via EVParts.
> > Please remit to me a total of $186 within in one week of this date.
> > Possible natural consequences of failure to comply will be:
> > 1. Contact local business license office
> > 2. Negative complaint with local Utah Better Business Bureau
> > 3. Letter to Utah Attorney General for mail fraud
> > This is a problem for you since I sent a check to
> you though the mail.
> > 4. Your name, business will be placed on all EV web blogs and
> sites as a warning
> > 5. Small claims court
> > I am taking this action because of your business has poor bed side manners.
> You don't return phone calls or follow up with emails as promised by your web
> site."
> >
> > Within three days I receive a phone call from Brian and he said he had just
> sent out the pot and the refund check and even gave me a tracking number. I
> received both within a few days. I returned the pot to EVParts. (These are
> good folks.)
> >
> > I completed my 93 Ford Festiva EV within a few days and took it for a 5
> mile spin.
> > The car goes 35 miles an hour on flat level which is great except with one
> slight problem. The take off acceleration from stop is extremely slow to the
> point of being very dangerous from being rear ended and if starting from a
> slight 1 degree incline it will not move at all. The 48 volt configuration
> just doesn't work as advertised on his web site which states "the
> acceleration is as good or better than the original VW engine at 48vdc"
> Wilderness EV needs to be put out of business for selling a system that
> doesn't work. I was shafted. Anyway, to my solve the problem I'm going to
> have to convert what I have to a 72 volt system which requires me changing
> out the eight like new Trojan T-105 for six 12 volt Trojans. I just can't add
> more batteries because of weight limitations. I am also going to have to
> change out the controller. Everything else should work. I will need to spend
> $700 for new batteries and $700 for a 72 volt controller. I will have to
> sell the used T-105!
> a!
> > nd 48 volt controller.
> >
> > Larry Roberts
> > Kennewick, Washington
> >
> >
> >
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello to All,
>To my surprise, instead of the usual 100 feet of
constant wheel spin and copious tire smoke, the damn thing simply stuck
and did a wheel stand, instantly slamming the poor guy into his seat as
both his eyes were big as saucers as he was now looking through the
windshield at the sky instead of the road.
>I almost felt bad, because he was shaking a bit afterwards. He told me he
had never,
ever been in a car that accelerated like that...ever! He said it was more like
an amusement park ride :-)
Hey John
Ever stop to think that half this poor guys shaking might be due in part by
you not looking at the road but at how big his eyes were? Granted that if the
windshield is pointed at the sky there's not much to look at, but I'm picturing
you straining against the G's to get a better look at his face, 8^o
As always great story, much fun to read. You need to mount a small camera
for pics and buy up wideasseyes.com or something, and sell them back to people,
I'd of bought one of my ride with Tim, lmao! Get it to snap every second for 5
secs, be a funny series of pics wouldn't it?? From normal to OMG!
Cya
Jim Husted
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
countries) for 2¢/min or less.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks fine to me. Thanks for placing up this article. Great
read.
David Roden wrote:
>I think I've swatted all the bugs - you tell me.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a similar story which I posted on this forum last month, on a kit for
a VW based conversion.
Service was terrible and I was not offered the opportunity to return just
parts.
The motor is in the VW, but I am buying new parts for the wiring etc. The
gauge is a piece of garbage. I got diverted to a house hold project for a
few weekends.
I have filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau in Utah. Also
there is a business called Solar Tree in Utah with a Brian Berrett at he
owner that is rated unfavorably by the BBB.
While the solution will provide basic EV transportation. The kit is CHEAP
and customer service is terrible.
David Sherritze
Niceville Florida
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 8:36 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
Hi EV Enthusiast,
This message is concerning the fraudulent and poor business practices of
Wilderness Electric Vehicle, Wilderness E.V., Wilderness EV, Owner Brain
Barrett, 380 S 370 E, Lehi, Utah 840443, PO Box 504, Lehi, Utah 84043
801-628-6509, [EMAIL PROTECTED], www.e-volks.com and the number two kit
for Ford Festiva.
I sent a check for $2,089.00 to Wilderness EV after several chats on the
phone. One month later I received the motor, plate and coupler. No motor
mount so I built my own. Several more weeks go buy and a couple of failed
follow up phone calls, to my surprise I received the rest of the parts
except the 0-5K pot. The battery terminals were wrong for the Trojan T-105
I was going to use and the 0-100 volt gauge was just cheap. I finally was
able to get a hold of Wilderness EV and asked for a return number for the
battery terminals and gauge and asked about the pot. Brian gave me a return
number for the parts and said he would give me credit for the motor mount
and send me a check. He also said the pot was on back order and would be
sent out within a few days. Two weeks later no parts, no refund check, and
no returned phone calls. I sent him two letters which said,
"I have returned the following parts for refund on July 26, 2006.
Voltmeter $48.00
Battery cable terminals $32
I asked for a credit for motor mount $20
I have not received as of this date and have ordered for EVPart 0-5 K Pot
$86 on my own via EVParts.
Please remit to me a total of $186 within in one week of this date.
Possible natural consequences of failure to comply will be:
1. Contact local business license office
2. Negative complaint with local Utah Better Business Bureau
3. Letter to Utah Attorney General for mail fraud
This is a problem for you since I sent a check to
you though the mail.
4. Your name, business will be placed on all EV web blogs and
sites as a warning
5. Small claims court
I am taking this action because of your business has poor bed side manners.
You don't return phone calls or follow up with emails as promised by your
web site."
Within three days I receive a phone call from Brian and he said he had just
sent out the pot and the refund check and even gave me a tracking number. I
received both within a few days. I returned the pot to EVParts. (These are
good folks.)
I completed my 93 Ford Festiva EV within a few days and took it for a 5 mile
spin.
The car goes 35 miles an hour on flat level which is great except with one
slight problem. The take off acceleration from stop is extremely slow to
the point of being very dangerous from being rear ended and if starting from
a slight 1 degree incline it will not move at all. The 48 volt
configuration just doesn't work as advertised on his web site which states
"the acceleration is as good or better than the original VW engine at 48vdc"
Wilderness EV needs to be put out of business for selling a system that
doesn't work. I was shafted. Anyway, to my solve the problem I'm going to
have to convert what I have to a 72 volt system which requires me changing
out the eight like new Trojan T-105 for six 12 volt Trojans. I just can't
add more batteries because of weight limitations. I am also going to have
to change out the controller. Everything else should work. I will need to
spend $700 for new batteries and $700 for a 72 volt controller. I will have
to sell the used T-105 a!
nd 48 volt controller.
Larry Roberts
Kennewick, Washington
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:45:10 -0700
>
> Folks...didn't the EV list warn about doing a on road EV with too little
> power??
> 48 volts is barley enough to stay at 50 mph.
> I know my first was a 48 volt starter gen with .....2500 amps of
> controller.
> Even at 72 volts you will be underwhelmed...
>
> At 96 you can get the job done... with few excuses.
> I would not do a on road EV with less than 120 volts... Sorry Shari...
> just
> makin' my points...
>
> This is the kind of thing we need to educate folks on... there are
> practical
> reasons why most of us don't do these kind of things..
> It's not that I am a EV street racer... or amp head.. just the practical
> side says reasonable levels of power are needed.. and 48 volts needs 4
> digits of amps to move 2000 lbs of Street EV.
> Don't get rid of your T-105s.. just get more of them.
>
> Madman
> We need to guide the newbies a little better folks...
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
>
>
> > Larry,
> >
>
> > > Within three days I receive a phone call from Brian and he said he
> had
> just sent out the pot and the refund check and even gave me a tracking
> number. I received both within a few days. I returned the pot to
> EVParts.
> (These are good folks.)
> > >
> > > I completed my 93 Ford Festiva EV within a few days and took it for
> a 5
> mile spin.
> > > The car goes 35 miles an hour on flat level which is great except
> with
> one slight problem. The take off acceleration from stop is extremely
> slow
> to the point of being very dangerous from being rear ended and if
> starting
> from a slight 1 degree incline it will not move at all. The 48 volt
> configuration just doesn't work as advertised on his web site which
> states
> "the acceleration is as good or better than the original VW engine at
> 48vdc"
> Wilderness EV needs to be put out of business for selling a system that
> doesn't work. I was shafted. Anyway, to my solve the problem I'm going
> to
> have to convert what I have to a 72 volt system which requires me
> changing
> out the eight like new Trojan T-105 for six 12 volt Trojans. I just
> can't
> add more batteries because of weight limitations. I am also going to
> have
> to change out the controller. Everything else should work. I will need
> to
> spend $700 for new batteries and $700 for a 72 volt controller. I will
> have
> to sell the used T-105!
> > a!
> > > nd 48 volt controller.
> > >
> > > Larry Roberts
> > > Kennewick, Washington
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 20:46:04 -0000
> From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: moderndcmotors
>
> Anyone have any info/experience on this motor ?
>
> http://www.moderndcmotors.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:58:12 -0700
> From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: NEDRA EVent in Alaska (was Re: EVs sho
> w at the Alaska Renewable ...)
>
> Hello to All,
>
> MIKE WILLMON wrote:
>
> > Hey, a NEDRA EVent in Alaska would be cool!!! Putting a vehicle on
> > the barge out of Seattle or Portland would be the cheapest and easiest
>
> > way to go. You'd fly in to race (and enjoy the sights for a few days)
>
> > and I could arrange to get trucks and car haulers volunteered to get
> > you to the track.
> >
> >
>
> Careful what you wish for. I can see the NEDRA race title
> now....'Alaskan Amps...EV drag racing under the midnight sun!'
> Seriously, I'd come back to Anchorage in a heartbeat! I'm sure it
> wouldn't take much arm-twisting to get Father Time and Rudman to show
> up, either.
>
>
> See Ya....John Wayland
> > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:12:48 -0700
> From: John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Oregonian Reporter Gets Zombied!
>
> Hello to All,
>
> There's been a frenzy of media coverage lately over EV drag racing, and
> in particular, over White Zombie's routine weekend drag racing runs
> against the gasser boys. A certain well known car magazine has been in
> contact (can't release details right now), Dateline Australia was here,
> and last night a reporter from Oregon's biggest newspaper 'The
> Oregonian' spent time with me and the little Datsun from Hell.
>
> It seems that the battery problems we had at the Wayland Invitational a
> few weeks ago where we blew up a Hawker, are behind us now, and it was
> just one weak battery that let go. We had replaced it with a pre-cycled
> spare Hawker and had carefully worked the pack back up into equalization
>
> with numerous 10-15 mile road drives, long low amperage charging, then
> several high current discharges and heavy charge cycles. We raced this
> past weekend and got four 12 second runs in without a single battery
> problem. Following Friday night's racing, I've been driving the Zombie
> every day and the 360V pack of Hawkers are beautifully equalized and sit
>
> at 392-393V. They're rock'n hard and are performing at high levels of
> power.
>
> Fast forward to the best part....Oregonian sports writer Doug Binder's
> ride in White Zombie. So....I'd been trying to explain to him the way
> the car launches from rest and how even against really powerful gas cars
>
> known to run 0-60 in 4 seconds or so, my EV is 4-5 car lengths ahead of
> them at 60 mph. I told him the Zombie's 0-60 time is estimated to be
> somewhere in the mid 3's. He's a nice guy, so no disrespect is intended,
>
> but I just don't think he got it. He evidently, had no idea what the car
>
> would really be like.
>
> Anyway...it was a hot day, so the recently repaved asphalt on Burnside
> was warm and sticky. We rounded a corner and just when I had
> straightened out the Zombie and was rolling at about 5 mph, I planted my
>
> right foot down hard! To my surprise, instead of the usual 100 feet of
> constant wheel spin and copious tire smoke, the damn thing simple stuck
> and did a wheel stand, instantly slamming the poor guy into his seat as
> both his eyes were big as saucers as he was now looking through the
> windshield at the sky instead of the road. When the front end came back
> down, it unloaded the rear tires a bit and they were breaking loose and
> squealing as we rushed up to speed. It was about the best power demo I
> could have hoped for! He was at the same time, in a state of shock,
> scared absolutely sh....tless, and yet, had the biggest EV grin I think
> I've ever seen...well, OK, Matt's was pretty big, too! I almost felt
> bad, because he was shaking a bit afterwards. He told me he had never,
> ever been in a car that accelerated like that...ever! He said it was
> more like an amusement park ride :-)
>
> The best news for the Late Night Nationals coming up the 25th & 26th
> next weekend, is that the article will be the lead feature on Thursday
> the 24th the day before the races, in the Oregonian's sports
> section...great pre-race PR! An Oregonian camera man is scheduled to be
> at the Wayland EV juice bar this Sunday to take the photo that will
> appear. I think a line-locked full tire burn is in order.
> I can hardly wait to read Doug Binder's write-up.
>
> See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
>
> http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
> > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:14:49 -0000
> From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Rich Rudman" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
>
> I have had issues with WE but drive my 48 volt geo daily. enough
> speed and acceleration for me and my community.
>
> got to 53mph (flat) the other day but using too many amps. I like
> 30 - 45
>
> I have no affilation with WE or E-volks ....
>
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Folks...didn't the EV list warn about doing a on road EV with too
> little
> > power??
> > 48 volts is barley enough to stay at 50 mph.
> > I know my first was a 48 volt starter gen with .....2500 amps of
> controller.
> > Even at 72 volts you will be underwhelmed...
> >
> > At 96 you can get the job done... with few excuses.
> > I would not do a on road EV with less than 120 volts... Sorry
> Shari... just
> > makin' my points...
> >
> > This is the kind of thing we need to educate folks on... there are
> practical
> > reasons why most of us don't do these kind of things..
> > It's not that I am a EV street racer... or amp head.. just the
> practical
> > side says reasonable levels of power are needed.. and 48 volts
> needs 4
> > digits of amps to move 2000 lbs of Street EV.
> > Don't get rid of your T-105s.. just get more of them.
> >
> > Madman
> > We need to guide the newbies a little better folks...
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:07 PM
> > Subject: Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
> >
> >
> > > Larry,
> > >
> >
> > > > Within three days I receive a phone call from Brian and he
> said he had
> > just sent out the pot and the refund check and even gave me a
> tracking
> > number. I received both within a few days. I returned the pot to
> EVParts.
> > (These are good folks.)
> > > >
> > > > I completed my 93 Ford Festiva EV within a few days and took
> it for a 5
> > mile spin.
> > > > The car goes 35 miles an hour on flat level which is great
> except with
> > one slight problem. The take off acceleration from stop is
> extremely slow
> > to the point of being very dangerous from being rear ended and if
> starting
> > from a slight 1 degree incline it will not move at all. The 48
> volt
> > configuration just doesn't work as advertised on his web site
> which states
> > "the acceleration is as good or better than the original VW engine
> at 48vdc"
> > Wilderness EV needs to be put out of business for selling a system
> that
> > doesn't work. I was shafted. Anyway, to my solve the problem I'm
> going to
> > have to convert what I have to a 72 volt system which requires me
> changing
> > out the eight like new Trojan T-105 for six 12 volt Trojans. I
> just can't
> > add more batteries because of weight limitations. I am also going
> to have
> > to change out the controller. Everything else should work. I will
> need to
> > spend $700 for new batteries and $700 for a 72 volt controller. I
> will have
> > to sell the used T-105!
> > > a!
> > > > nd 48 volt controller.
> > > >
> > > > Larry Roberts
> > > > Kennewick, Washington
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:21:56 -0000
> From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Solar charging an EV - off grid
>
> Anyone have any experience doing this ??
>
> On a 48 volt system ... panels and vehicle ... any reccomendation on
> a charge controller ?
>
> These are nice but ???
>
> http://www.affordable-solar.com/outback.mx60.mppt.charge.controller.htm
>
>
>
> good article ...
>
> http://www.affordable-solar.com/charge.controllers.htm
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:29:09 -0400
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: battery trailers
> To: [email protected]
>
> Here is the end-all site for singlewheel trailers. You guessed it:
> http://www.singlewheel.com/
>
> However, a tiny trailer isn't hard to back up if you extend the tongue,
> preferably with a hinged or telescopic setup to enable easy storage. A
> telescoping tongue can be done easily with two pieces of pipe, a drill,
> and hitch pins. You should certainly be able to go far enough back to
> see the top of your trailer thru the rearview and still not have to
> swing wide in turns.
>
> I've pondered a singlewheel without the dual hitch mount. The
> Cruiserlift http://www.cruiserlift.com/swivelwheelfaq.html offers an
> adaptor for conventional single 2" center-mount receivers. I don't know
> if they'd sell the swivel unit alone. If the load is kept on-axis and
> narrow, a purpose-built singlewheel battery trailer should operate fine
> through a single 2" receiver hitch, the hitch being beefily hinged for
> vertical movement (NOT side-side). The 2" receiver may need more
> reinforcing for lateral loads than I've seen on some, but I've subjected
> mine to some pretty hairy loads when turning (including a jacknife), and
> no bent frames yet...
>
> This setup would make short tongues an asset instead of a liability, yet
> still allow the trailer to be towed by pretty much any vehicle with a
> class III receiver (though the hitch height should be maintained to keep
> the trailer level, for proper swivel operation). The main disadvantage
> I see is that the swivelwheel tends to dictate a high load floor, unless
> tongue weight is increased by pushing the swivel rearwards, or the
> swivel is recessed in a box that takes up a good bit of the cargo space.
> Again, lost cargo space and a hump in the floor is not much liability
> on a battery trailer. It would be easy to put a 'false floor' as the
> battery trailer's top, and allow for limited additional cargo, like
> bicycles, an ice chest or footlocker, etc..
>
> Cheers,
> Jay Donnaway
> www.karmanneclectric.blogspot.com
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email
> and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
> > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:18:06 -0500
> To: [email protected]
> From: "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: battery trailer
>
> Made by lots of different manufactures.
> http://www.singlewheel.com/
>
>
>
> At 12:13 PM 8/15/2006, you wrote:
> >Here are my friend's comments on that trailer I
> >mentioned:
> >
> >I haven't seen trailers like that in years. It was
> >really small, like maybe 4 feet wide by 5 feet long.
> >It had short sides, maybe 18" high, like a box with no
> >top. It had steel brackets on the sides for tall
> >wooden sides, which he occasionally used. That
> >wouldn't matter for batteries.
> >
> >The hitch on the front was a bar that ran the full
> >width of the trailer and was welded to two brackets on
> >either end. It was a hollow steel tube, probably 1.5
> >inches in diameter.
> >
> >He had two brackets that bolted to the rear bumper of
> >the car which accepted the mounting bar on the
> >trailer. That way the trailer and the car could
> >negotiate the crests of hills, etc, with the hitch
> >acting like a horizontal pivot.
> >
> >The wheel was located about 2/3 of the way back on the
> >bottom of the trailer. It was about the size of a
> >snowmobile trailer tire. It was mounted like a
> >caster, it could turn 360.
> >
> >I could draw a picture if this isn't clear.
> >
> >My only concern using something like that for
> >batteries is that the single tire might not be up to
> >the load. You could use two separate caster-mounted
> >wheels, I think, without screwing up cornering.
> >
> >Trailers like this used to be common back in the 50's
> >and 60's. I'm sure someone still makes them somewhere
> >on earth.
> >
> >
> >
>
> __________
> Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
> > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:01:47 -0500
> From: Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: NEDRA EVent in Alaska (was Re: EVs sho
> w at the Alaska Renewable ...)
>
> John Wayland wrote:
>
> > Hello to All,
> >
> > MIKE WILLMON wrote:
> >
> >> Hey, a NEDRA EVent in Alaska would be cool!!! Putting a vehicle on
> >> the barge out of Seattle or Portland would be the cheapest and
> >> easiest way to go. You'd fly in to race (and enjoy the sights for a
> >> few days) and I could arrange to get trucks and car haulers
> >> volunteered to get you to the track.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Careful what you wish for. I can see the NEDRA race title
> > now....'Alaskan Amps...EV drag racing under the midnight sun!'
> > Seriously, I'd come back to Anchorage in a heartbeat! I'm sure it
> > wouldn't take much arm-twisting to get Father Time and Rudman to show
> > up, either.
> >
> According to mapquest.com Portland to Anchorage is 2571 miles.
> Portland to Joliet, IL was 2108 miles...
>
> Maybe you could load the cars aboard a train?
>
> Mark Farver
> > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:02:22 +1000
> From: "Ev Performance (Robert Chew)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: battery trailer
>
> Yes, thats the idea.
>
> It'll be real damn small. I also need to consult with the road
> authorities
> to see if it can be registered etc. But towing a portable biodiesel
> generator would be ideal. Diesel gensets weigh a tonne.
>
> Now, i just need to get my hands on a diesel genset.
>
> Cheers all
>
>
> On 16/08/06, Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Yes a tiny trailer is almost impossible to back-up.
> >
> > Since we're building one though.... How about we make it two hitch
> points
> > and one wheel(caster) instead of one hitch and two wheels. Backing up
> is
> > now
> > not an issue, it will swing with the rear. We could even shape it
> with
> > the
> > proper taper to actually improve the overall aero and reduce the whr's
> > consumed by the car. Cornering swing will be different, but I'm
> picturing
> > a
> > trailer thats only around 5 feet off the car.
> >
> > --
> > Stay Charged!
> > Hump
> >
> > GE I-5
> > Blossvale, NY
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Don M
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:07 AM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Re: battery trailer
> > >
> > > I checked out your car on the Ev album. Cool car.
> > >
> > > I would think an appropriately small aluminum frame trailer would be
> > great.
> > > I don't know if you see any aluminum trailers in Oz. Here in the US
> > there
> > > are snowmobile and other small utility trailers made of aluminum
> > structural
> > > members with steel only being used in the axles, springs, hitch
> coupler,
> > and
> > > nuts/bolts.
> > >
> > > It IS real hard to back up a tiny trailer. Virtually impossible.
> > >
> > > -Don M
> > >
> > > --- Robert Chew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yo,
> > > >
> > > > My current battery pack weight is 180 kg. My battery pack is
> not
> > > > nearly the same weights as the large american conversions. I
> only
> > want
> > > > a trailer that can handle 200 kg. So a motorbike trailer is
> > suitable
> > > > for this job.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ________________________________________________
> > Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.9
> >
> >
> > From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:34:00 -0700
>
> Hi Larry
>
> Sorry to hear about your travails per EV. I think it was
> Lawrence Rhodes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) on the EVDL that set
> up a nice Ford Festiva (before it got rear-ended by some guy in
> an SUV whose dog stepped in his lap and distracted him) and is,
> if I recall, building another one. Lawrence is in San Francisco,
> and you know how hilly that is. So you might contact Lawrence
> for info, assuming you two have not contacted each other already.
>
> Chuck
>
> Chuck Hursch
> Larkspur, CA
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
> http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 6:35 AM
> Subject: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
>
>
> > Hi EV Enthusiast,
> >
> > This message is concerning the fraudulent and poor business
> practices of Wilderness Electric Vehicle, Wilderness E.V.,
> Wilderness EV, Owner Brain Barrett, 380 S 370 E, Lehi, Utah
> 840443, PO Box 504, Lehi, Utah 84043 801-628-6509,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED], www.e-volks.com and the number two kit for
> Ford Festiva.
> >
> > I sent a check for $2,089.00 to Wilderness EV after several
> chats on the phone. One month later I received the motor, plate
> and coupler. No motor mount so I built my own. Several more weeks
> go buy and a couple of failed follow up phone calls, to my
> surprise I received the rest of the parts except the 0-5K pot.
> The battery terminals were wrong for the Trojan T-105 I was going
> to use and the 0-100 volt gauge was just cheap. I finally was
> able to get a hold of Wilderness EV and asked for a return number
> for the battery terminals and gauge and asked about the pot.
> Brian gave me a return number for the parts and said he would
> give me credit for the motor mount and send me a check. He also
> said the pot was on back order and would be sent out within a few
> days. Two weeks later no parts, no refund check, and no returned
> phone calls. I sent him two letters which said,
> >
> > "I have returned the following parts for refund on July 26,
> 2006.
> > Voltmeter $48.00
> > Battery cable terminals $32
> > I asked for a credit for motor mount $20
> > I have not received as of this date and have ordered for EVPart
> 0-5 K Pot $86 on my own via EVParts.
> > Please remit to me a total of $186 within in one week of this
> date.
> > Possible natural consequences of failure to comply will be:
> > 1. Contact local business license office
> > 2. Negative complaint with local Utah Better
> Business Bureau
> > 3. Letter to Utah Attorney General for mail fraud
> > This is a problem for you since I sent
> a check to you though the mail.
> > 4. Your name, business will be placed on all EV web
> blogs and sites as a warning
> > 5. Small claims court
> > I am taking this action because of your business has poor bed
> side manners. You don't return phone calls or follow up with
> emails as promised by your web site."
> >
> > Within three days I receive a phone call from Brian and he said
> he had just sent out the pot and the refund check and even gave
> me a tracking number. I received both within a few days. I
> returned the pot to EVParts. (These are good folks.)
> >
> > I completed my 93 Ford Festiva EV within a few days and took it
> for a 5 mile spin.
> > The car goes 35 miles an hour on flat level which is great
> except with one slight problem. The take off acceleration from
> stop is extremely slow to the point of being very dangerous from
> being rear ended and if starting from a slight 1 degree incline
> it will not move at all. The 48 volt configuration just doesn't
> work as advertised on his web site which states "the acceleration
> is as good or better than the original VW engine at 48vdc"
> Wilderness EV needs to be put out of business for selling a
> system that doesn't work. I was shafted. Anyway, to my solve
> the problem I'm going to have to convert what I have to a 72 volt
> system which requires me changing out the eight like new Trojan
> T-105 for six 12 volt Trojans. I just can't add more batteries
> because of weight limitations. I am also going to have to change
> out the controller. Everything else should work. I will need to
> spend $700 for new batteries and $700 for a 72 volt controller.
> I will have to sell the used T-105 a!
> > nd 48 volt controller.
> >
> > Larry Roberts
> > Kennewick, Washington
> >
> >
> > From: "Joe Vitek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: modern dc motors
> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:31:35 -0400
>
> > Anyone have any info/experience on this motor ?
> >
> > http://www.moderndcmotors.com/
>
> Man, that seems like it would be a good motor for a small motorcycle
> conversion. Maybe
> even a high performance electric bicycle...
>
> --
> joe
> > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:38:33 -0400
> From: Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: modern dc motors
>
> super-ebike is what I'm thinking :)
> The problem with an ebike is that it can't look like it has too much
> stuff on it or you're going to get the attention of the (village)
> police.
> --
> Martin K
>
> Joe Vitek wrote:
> >> Anyone have any info/experience on this motor ?
> >>
> >> http://www.moderndcmotors.com/
> >>
> >
> > Man, that seems like it would be a good motor for a small motorcycle
> conversion. Maybe
> > even a high performance electric bicycle...
> >
> > --
> > joe
> >
> >
> > From: "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Saturn paint job update.... it's Green!
> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:13:57 -0700
> To: [email protected]
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2006, at 7:52 PM, Ricky Suiter wrote:
>
> > Some updated pictures. I went ahead with my original color
> > selection, the Saturn "Electric Lime" color or as PPG called it "Fine
> > Sublime". I also kept the original idea to two tone it and keep the
> > bottom silver. I picked out another Saturn silver, I think it was
> > their "Silver Nickel" color, but reguardless they both have A LOT of
> > pearl in them and it looks fantastic together. I'm glad I two toned it
>
> > because it kind of breaks it up, I think full green might have been a
> > bit much. The pictures it looks more yellow than it really is. It is
> > deffinitely lime green. I just got it back together today, less of
> > course the rear and quarter glass panels I had taken out to get the
> > edges of the roof (they were comming out eventually anyway). I'm going
>
> > to venture out and find some lexan and attempt making some lexan
> > replacement windows for the rear and quarter glass panels.
>
> Sorry for the late reply, I just got back online after about a week
> without service. <Grrr>
>
> The pictures look great. It appears that you found very favorable
> colors for your car (though I prefer purple and black
> <evalbum.com/125.html> :-)
>
> I would advise against going with plastic windows:
>
> Glass is a part of the structure of many modern cars (bonded in glass
> anyway.)
>
> Even the best silicone hardened polycarbonate is not as scratch
> resistant as glass (and that stuff is expensive.)
>
> Most modern auto glass has compound curves that tent to flatline when
> you put in plastic. In other words, I fear poor aesthetics.
>
> The weight savings are not significant to range. I would bet you could
> get more by creating a 24 volt battery bank for your 12v system with a
> 14 volt DC to DC to power the 12v system. (that thought occurred to me
> recently because of the lack of EV DC>DC converters and the fact that a
> number of 24>12 volt converters to at least 60 amps are available for
> less than $200.)
>
> HTH,
> Paul "neon" G.
> > From: Matthew Milliron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: battery trailer
> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:37:03 -0500
>
> On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:28:52 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >Don M wrote:
> >
> >>Trailers like this used to be common back in the 50's
> >>and 60's. I'm sure someone still makes them somewhere
>
>
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Category.taf?CategoryID=441&pricetype=
>
> > From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Solar charging an EV - off grid
> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:16:19 -0600
>
> That is just the charger, you still have to have a large array of solar
> panels to go with that. There is a company here in Montana that
> assembles
> these type of units which are normally used in remote areas that do not
> have
> a power grid.
>
> These houses that have these solar panels, have the whole roof cover, or
> is
> the roof of a building.
>
> Each cell is about 6 inches in diameter and puts out 1 volt at 1 amp.
>
> For a 250 volt system at 50 amps, we are talking about 50 strings of 250
>
> cells.
>
> Each cell un-assemble cost about $10.00 each. So we now have $10.00 x
> 50 x
> 250 = $125,000.00.
>
> You can get these units in a 30 cell enclosurer which cost about $500.00
>
> each. You need 416 of these modules which now cost you $208,333.00.
>
> On top of that, they use a large bank of 450 AH batteries for 250 Volts,
>
> which these solar cells charge while the demand is not high. The
> batteries
> are than used through a inverter systems to maintain the power at night.
>
> I had one guy ask me, why don't you run your electric car on solar
> cells. I
> said, I would need about 2500 sq. ft of the solar cells, which would
> weigh
> over 20,000 lbs not including a support structure that would weigh
> another
> 7000 lbs.
>
> So that does not work for me.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:21 PM
> Subject: Solar charging an EV - off grid
>
>
> > Anyone have any experience doing this ??
> >
> > On a 48 volt system ... panels and vehicle ... any reccomendation
> on
> > a charge controller ?
> >
> > These are nice but ???
> >
> >
> http://www.affordable-solar.com/outback.mx60.mppt.charge.controller.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > good article ...
> >
> > http://www.affordable-solar.com/charge.controllers.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Also, check willyshotrods.com for a 41 coupe or pickup in fiberglass.
Interior is unfinished and I'm not sure there would be a weight savings.
Fits 82 to 2003 S-10 frame.
On Tue, 2006-08-15 at 03:53 +0000, Death to All Spammers wrote:
> > So, time to shop for a donor car.
> > I have been reading about the range from an S10,
> > and thinking about my needs, and I am leaning
> > toward an S-10 blazer.
> >
>
> Next you can get a kit from Rodster.com for a really cool-looking EV!
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great story John! What most humans don't understand that a launch in a 12
second electric car is more like the launch in a 9 or 10 second gas car and
they are not usually on the street. They don't have a clue until they
experience it for themselves. Back in 1998 we took the "Maniac Mazda", which
was even slower than John's car is now, to The Alameda International
Electric Vehicle Exposition. We did some drag races and were even allowed to
take some passengers. I took an Hispanic gentleman, who owned cars such as
the Lotus Elise, for a ride. During the launch he was totally silent as
opposed to others who broke down into laughter as the only way to
psychologically handle the EV grin. Well this guy was different. He didn't
say a word until we both got out of the car and then he repeatedly said in a
long and drawn out manner in his Hispanic accent: "Holy Sheeeet, Hoooooly
Sheeet, over again over again for about eight refrains. He had never in his
lifetime, as a human on this planet, experienced such an experience of
acceleration. Now the reporter from The Oregonian knows! I have an old
saying that I made up that says "granted that a picture is worth a thousand
words but an experience is worth a thousand pictures"
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:12 PM
Subject: Oregonian Reporter Gets Zombied!
Hello to All,
There's been a frenzy of media coverage lately over EV drag racing, and in
particular, over White Zombie's routine weekend drag racing runs against
the gasser boys. A certain well known car magazine has been in contact
(can't release details right now), Dateline Australia was here, and last
night a reporter from Oregon's biggest newspaper 'The Oregonian' spent
time with me and the little Datsun from Hell.
It seems that the battery problems we had at the Wayland Invitational a
few weeks ago where we blew up a Hawker, are behind us now, and it was
just one weak battery that let go. We had replaced it with a pre-cycled
spare Hawker and had carefully worked the pack back up into equalization
with numerous 10-15 mile road drives, long low amperage charging, then
several high current discharges and heavy charge cycles. We raced this
past weekend and got four 12 second runs in without a single battery
problem. Following Friday night's racing, I've been driving the Zombie
every day and the 360V pack of Hawkers are beautifully equalized and sit
at 392-393V. They're rock'n hard and are performing at high levels of
power.
Fast forward to the best part....Oregonian sports writer Doug Binder's
ride in White Zombie. So....I'd been trying to explain to him the way the
car launches from rest and how even against really powerful gas cars known
to run 0-60 in 4 seconds or so, my EV is 4-5 car lengths ahead of them at
60 mph. I told him the Zombie's 0-60 time is estimated to be somewhere in
the mid 3's. He's a nice guy, so no disrespect is intended, but I just
don't think he got it. He evidently, had no idea what the car would really
be like.
Anyway...it was a hot day, so the recently repaved asphalt on Burnside was
warm and sticky. We rounded a corner and just when I had straightened out
the Zombie and was rolling at about 5 mph, I planted my right foot down
hard! To my surprise, instead of the usual 100 feet of constant wheel spin
and copious tire smoke, the damn thing simple stuck and did a wheel stand,
instantly slamming the poor guy into his seat as both his eyes were big as
saucers as he was now looking through the windshield at the sky instead of
the road. When the front end came back down, it unloaded the rear tires a
bit and they were breaking loose and squealing as we rushed up to speed.
It was about the best power demo I could have hoped for! He was at the
same time, in a state of shock, scared absolutely sh....tless, and yet,
had the biggest EV grin I think I've ever seen...well, OK, Matt's was
pretty big, too! I almost felt bad, because he was shaking a bit
afterwards. He told me he had never, ever been in a car that accelerated
like that...ever! He said it was more like an amusement park ride :-)
The best news for the Late Night Nationals coming up the 25th & 26th next
weekend, is that the article will be the lead feature on Thursday the 24th
the day before the races, in the Oregonian's sports section...great
pre-race PR! An Oregonian camera man is scheduled to be at the Wayland EV
juice bar this Sunday to take the photo that will appear. I think a
line-locked full tire burn is in order.
I can hardly wait to read Doug Binder's write-up.
See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
--
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