EV Digest 5762
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV digest 5760
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Drive Shaft Containment
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Oregonian Reporter Gets Zombied!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: article: Tesla Roadster Sells Out First 100 Cars
by "David C. Navas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Drive Shaft Containment
by "Mark Metcalf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Two Electric cars for sale.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: article: Tesla Roadster Sells Out First 100 Cars
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Drive Shaft Containment
by "Michael T Kadie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: IGBTs and DC controllers
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Lithium Safety
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Drive Shaft Containment
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: 72V - 370V DC-DC Converter, 300W
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Solar charging an EV - off grid
by "jmygann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) EUROPOSITRON,Is this battery for real ?
by "ROBERT GOUDREAU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: article: Tesla Roadster Sells Out First 100 Cars! GREAT!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Drive Shaft Containment
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
We've heard good and bad about Wilderness. We need more than two bad
reports to really know what is going on with them. The problem is not all
of their customers are on our list. I have a feeling the success stories
are driving happily on their own unknown to us. Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
> I'm not sure what the point of this mild rebuke is, but the EV Wilderness
> people have been discussed on this list several times in the past, often
> with the idea, of those who try them out reporting their experience back
to
> the list. Now we have some feedback.
>
> damon
>
>
> >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> >To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> >Subject: Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
> >Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:07:19 -0400
> >
> >Larry,
> >
> >I am not the list administrator nor your boss however as a small business
> >owner I had to reply.
> >
> >Although I feel for your experience I also believe your email is an
example
> >of impatient on your part allowing for shipping time, and the return
and/or
> >refunds requested. As in all business it is Caveat Emptor when it comes
to
> >buying anything even a new car. Where a company can make or break their
> >long term success is through how they handle issues like yours. I would
not
> >be happy with how this was handled but then again I don't have any
> >expectations in this regard when it comes to grass-roots type of
business.
> >You take what you get in many cases right or wrong.
> >
> >Whatever you may feel this is really not the medium to properly resolve
> >your issues in the manner you have taken. As an educator or administrator
> >within the education system you have the power to shape our leaders of
> >tomorrow by example. This wasn't it. I hope you can work this out to your
> >satisfaction. Certainly we all wish you the best success in driving
> >electric.
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Pedroman
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 9:35 AM
> >Subject: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
> >
> >
> > > Hi EV Enthusiast,
> > >
> > > This message is concerning the fraudulent and poor business practices
of
> >Wilderness Electric Vehicle, Wilderness E.V., Wilderness EV, Owner Brain
> >Barrett, 380 S 370 E, Lehi, Utah 840443, PO Box 504, Lehi, Utah 84043
> >801-628-6509, [EMAIL PROTECTED], www.e-volks.com and the number two
kit
> >for Ford Festiva.
> > >
> > > I sent a check for $2,089.00 to Wilderness EV after several chats on
the
> >phone. One month later I received the motor, plate and coupler. No motor
> >mount so I built my own. Several more weeks go buy and a couple of failed
> >follow up phone calls, to my surprise I received the rest of the parts
> >except the 0-5K pot. The battery terminals were wrong for the Trojan
T-105
> >I was going to use and the 0-100 volt gauge was just cheap. I finally was
> >able to get a hold of Wilderness EV and asked for a return number for the
> >battery terminals and gauge and asked about the pot. Brian gave me a
return
> >number for the parts and said he would give me credit for the motor mount
> >and send me a check. He also said the pot was on back order and would be
> >sent out within a few days. Two weeks later no parts, no refund check,
and
> >no returned phone calls. I sent him two letters which said,
> > >
> > > "I have returned the following parts for refund on July 26, 2006.
> > > Voltmeter $48.00
> > > Battery cable terminals $32
> > > I asked for a credit for motor mount $20
> > > I have not received as of this date and have ordered for EVPart 0-5 K
> >Pot $86 on my own via EVParts.
> > > Please remit to me a total of $186 within in one week of this date.
> > > Possible natural consequences of failure to comply will be:
> > > 1. Contact local business license office
> > > 2. Negative complaint with local Utah Better Business
Bureau
> > > 3. Letter to Utah Attorney General for mail fraud
> > > This is a problem for you since I sent a check
to
> >you though the mail.
> > > 4. Your name, business will be placed on all EV web blogs
and
> >sites as a warning
> > > 5. Small claims court
> > > I am taking this action because of your business has poor bed side
> >manners. You don't return phone calls or follow up with emails as
promised
> >by your web site."
> > >
> > > Within three days I receive a phone call from Brian and he said he had
> >just sent out the pot and the refund check and even gave me a tracking
> >number. I received both within a few days. I returned the pot to
EVParts.
> >(These are good folks.)
> > >
> > > I completed my 93 Ford Festiva EV within a few days and took it for a
5
> >mile spin.
> > > The car goes 35 miles an hour on flat level which is great except with
> >one slight problem. The take off acceleration from stop is extremely
slow
> >to the point of being very dangerous from being rear ended and if
starting
> >from a slight 1 degree incline it will not move at all. The 48 volt
> >configuration just doesn't work as advertised on his web site which
states
> >"the acceleration is as good or better than the original VW engine at
> >48vdc" Wilderness EV needs to be put out of business for selling a system
> >that doesn't work. I was shafted. Anyway, to my solve the problem I'm
> >going to have to convert what I have to a 72 volt system which requires
me
> >changing out the eight like new Trojan T-105 for six 12 volt Trojans. I
> >just can't add more batteries because of weight limitations. I am also
> >going to have to change out the controller. Everything else should work.
I
> >will need to spend $700 for new batteries and $700 for a 72 volt
> >controller. I will have to sell the used T-105!
> > a!
> > > nd 48 volt controller.
> > >
> > > Larry Roberts
> > > Kennewick, Washington
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 16 Aug 2006 at 4:36, David Brandt wrote:
> ... Toyota RAV-EVs, I have been
> wondering how one could match or at least approach that kind of
> performance with a home conversion.
I don't think you're going to do it with the usual lead batteries, series
motor, and DC controller. That could make a serviceable EV and a very cost-
effective one. But from what I can see the RAV really shines for its ease
of use, surprising efficiency, and seamless integration of the drive system.
Watering batteries and shifting gears would sort of spoil the effect, IMO.
So would the portly mass of a lead sled.
I'm sure many won't agree with me, and that's OK. Some will point out that
I don't have the engineering credentials to do this kind of a conversion,
and they're right too. But I really think this is where you'd want to go :
If you want to duplicate a RAV4-EV, start with a RAV4 (duh). Add one of
Victor's big AC drives, or a Solectria from Mike Brown. This gives you a
wide RPM range so you don't need to shift, and regen to improve efficiency
and driving comfort.
You might use a single speed transaxle from either vendor (discard the
factory transmission), or else lock the original trans in gear.
Raise the suspension and sling an advanced chemistry battery underneath the
vehicle. Don't even consider lead; it'll have to be at least NiCD and
preferably NiMH or lithium in order to get your 125 miles of range without
excessive vehicle mass.
Now you need an appropriate charger and BMS. This might mean a Brusa with
an appropriate profile (I think they have them for NiCd and NiMH), or
Valence lithium batteries with their charging system. The Valence is a very
slick design - they are essentially all-up drop-in replacements for lead
batteries, though at a rather harrowing price.
Now you have something almost comparable to Toyota's RAV - probably at a
price at least comparable to what people are paying for the RAVs on Ebay!
But it will have one very important difference - YOU will have built it, and
YOU will be able to maintain it.
As I say I'm sure many will disagree and will assert that they can do the
job with cheaper, more conventional means. They may be right. But I really
think that if you want to come as close as possible to Toyota's achievement
with the RAV, this is just about the minimum.
Other thoughts welcome.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an Aspire a little heavier than the Festiva. It has never had a
Wilderness system. It is now at 144vdc up from 120. I am just trying to
find out what works on the Wilderness system. Just the facts Ma'am.
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
> Hi Larry
>
> Sorry to hear about your travails per EV. I think it was
> Lawrence Rhodes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) on the EVDL that set
> up a nice Ford Festiva (before it got rear-ended by some guy in
> an SUV whose dog stepped in his lap and distracted him) and is,
> if I recall, building another one. Lawrence is in San Francisco,
> and you know how hilly that is. So you might contact Lawrence
> for info, assuming you two have not contacted each other already.
>
> Chuck
>
> Chuck Hursch
> Larkspur, CA
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
> http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 6:35 AM
> Subject: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
>
>
> > Hi EV Enthusiast,
> >
> > This message is concerning the fraudulent and poor business
> practices of Wilderness Electric Vehicle, Wilderness E.V.,
> Wilderness EV, Owner Brain Barrett, 380 S 370 E, Lehi, Utah
> 840443, PO Box 504, Lehi, Utah 84043 801-628-6509,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED], www.e-volks.com and the number two kit for
> Ford Festiva.
> >
> > I sent a check for $2,089.00 to Wilderness EV after several
> chats on the phone. One month later I received the motor, plate
> and coupler. No motor mount so I built my own. Several more weeks
> go buy and a couple of failed follow up phone calls, to my
> surprise I received the rest of the parts except the 0-5K pot.
> The battery terminals were wrong for the Trojan T-105 I was going
> to use and the 0-100 volt gauge was just cheap. I finally was
> able to get a hold of Wilderness EV and asked for a return number
> for the battery terminals and gauge and asked about the pot.
> Brian gave me a return number for the parts and said he would
> give me credit for the motor mount and send me a check. He also
> said the pot was on back order and would be sent out within a few
> days. Two weeks later no parts, no refund check, and no returned
> phone calls. I sent him two letters which said,
> >
> > "I have returned the following parts for refund on July 26,
> 2006.
> > Voltmeter $48.00
> > Battery cable terminals $32
> > I asked for a credit for motor mount $20
> > I have not received as of this date and have ordered for EVPart
> 0-5 K Pot $86 on my own via EVParts.
> > Please remit to me a total of $186 within in one week of this
> date.
> > Possible natural consequences of failure to comply will be:
> > 1. Contact local business license office
> > 2. Negative complaint with local Utah Better
> Business Bureau
> > 3. Letter to Utah Attorney General for mail fraud
> > This is a problem for you since I sent
> a check to you though the mail.
> > 4. Your name, business will be placed on all EV web
> blogs and sites as a warning
> > 5. Small claims court
> > I am taking this action because of your business has poor bed
> side manners. You don't return phone calls or follow up with
> emails as promised by your web site."
> >
> > Within three days I receive a phone call from Brian and he said
> he had just sent out the pot and the refund check and even gave
> me a tracking number. I received both within a few days. I
> returned the pot to EVParts. (These are good folks.)
> >
> > I completed my 93 Ford Festiva EV within a few days and took it
> for a 5 mile spin.
> > The car goes 35 miles an hour on flat level which is great
> except with one slight problem. The take off acceleration from
> stop is extremely slow to the point of being very dangerous from
> being rear ended and if starting from a slight 1 degree incline
> it will not move at all. The 48 volt configuration just doesn't
> work as advertised on his web site which states "the acceleration
> is as good or better than the original VW engine at 48vdc"
> Wilderness EV needs to be put out of business for selling a
> system that doesn't work. I was shafted. Anyway, to my solve
> the problem I'm going to have to convert what I have to a 72 volt
> system which requires me changing out the eight like new Trojan
> T-105 for six 12 volt Trojans. I just can't add more batteries
> because of weight limitations. I am also going to have to change
> out the controller. Everything else should work. I will need to
> spend $700 for new batteries and $700 for a 72 volt controller.
> I will have to sell the used T-105 a!
> > nd 48 volt controller.
> >
> > Larry Roberts
> > Kennewick, Washington
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 16 Aug 2006 at 9:42, Richard Acuti wrote:
> I think the amount of power the vehicle has to have is subject to the
> individual's personal desires.
Quite true. With no disrespect intended, this list is partly populated by a
contingent of people who love fast cars and can't abide the typical 96 volt
or 120 volt DC conversion. A car that takes 20 seconds or more to reach 60
mph would drive them nuts.
But there are also plenty of others here, myself included, who drive very
moderately (some would say "like a granny" ;-). We don't need or want neck-
snapping acceleration. We're che- oops, I mean frugal, and we don't want to
spend 3-5 times as much per mile for high-current AGM batteries. We aren't
quite as "vocal" as the fast EV guys. They post more and argue
passionately. We tend to post less and state our cases quietly. But we are
here, and we'll try to respond too.
Only you know what you want and need in an EV.
But - listen to everyone, including the fast guys, because they have lots of
experience. Don't take it personally if they suggest that your car is slow.
They're just voicing their opinions; they're not trying to beat up on your
for going the route that's right for you. Tough it out, make up your own
mind. We all argue (sometimes with great enthusiasm ;-) for what we think
is important. In the end, it's up to you to take it all in and decide for
yourself.
I say that if your C-van is working for you, that's one more EV on the road
and one more reason for all of us to celebrate. Bravo!
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mark,
For maximum safety than install drive shaft loops, but it is not required if
you are not racing.
If you are racing and running slicks, than it is required.
If you are running street type tires and running slower than 13.5 seconds
you are not required to install drive shaft loops.
Drive shaft loops may be a full length type that is attach to the
transmission and to a fix type of differential that does not move. Or a
series of metal loops around the drive shaft.
The loops must be position and size so the drive shaft will not slip out of
the loops.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:23 AM
Subject: Drive Shaft Containment
> Hi,
>
> I saw something in passing regarding drive shaft containment I think on
> race cars (maybe from nedra). I was curious if there was a standard
> recommended way of containing a driveshaft should the U joint pop off. I
> noticed when I got my Cushman it was loose, popped off and banged the rear
> end up in the air. Should a metal circle be mounted around each end?
>
> Best Regards,
> Mark
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the damn thing simply stuck and did a wheel stand, instantly slamming the
poor guy into his seat
LOL
Having had the Meanie treatment I can only imagine what that reporters
Zombie experience was. I hope John reports on the Oregonian article on
Zombie when it shows up. I will always hope Johns examples EV speed and
style are good for EVs. Lawrence Rhodes..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm impressed! 100 people have paid $100,000 deposits for a Tesla.
> I'd never pay a deposit like that. I wouldn't have an hour's peace of
> mind while worrying about whether the company would fail to deliver
> my car or refund my money. Corbin Motors took prepayments for
> Sparrows and left a number of people hanging with no Sparrow and no
> refund.
Presumably the escrow account is sufficient for 100 people, anyway.
I would worry about other things -- how often do I need to replace
those really expensive tires, for example. Or, where do I go to
repair that all-carbon-fiber body? Or, how stiff is that suspension,
really? Or, what happens when I scrape the entire bottom off the car
going over my first speed bump?
On the otherhand, it's likely to be a hell of a collector's item.
-Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark E. Hanson wrote:
Hi,
I saw something in passing regarding drive shaft containment I think on race cars (maybe from nedra). I was curious if there was a standard recommended way of containing a driveshaft should the U joint pop off. I noticed when I got my Cushman it was loose, popped off and banged the rear end up in the air. Should a metal circle be mounted around each end?
Best Regards,
Mark
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
Driveshafts are tremendously reliable. They let you know when they're
going to fail. They make noise or a simply hands on test (static),
shaking and twisting to observe lateral and axial play. Any play is bad.
In a world where energy efficiency is everything, proper maintenance is
your best driveshaft containment.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am not selling cars. Contact the person below [EMAIL PROTECTED]
1. Cars available
Posted by: "Dale Ice" [EMAIL PROTECTED] panfreak2001
Date: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:28 am (PDT)
Hi All,
Why bother with eBay,just buy my two cars now-
1980? EXAR electric car,Frua bodied,only-one-in-the world,needs major
TLC,$800 or trade-located in Reno,NV
1973 Dyane6,runs but has rust issues. It is currently titled and
drivable,$2000.00, located in Pt.Arena,CA
Dale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dave,
These are questions for every Lotus, not only this one
with customised body and motor.
Ask your friendly Lotus dealer. ;-)
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of David C. Navas
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 7:28 AM
To: Tom Shay
Subject: Re: article: Tesla Roadster Sells Out First 100 Cars
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm impressed! 100 people have paid $100,000 deposits for a Tesla.
> I'd never pay a deposit like that. I wouldn't have an hour's peace of
> mind while worrying about whether the company would fail to deliver
> my car or refund my money. Corbin Motors took prepayments for
> Sparrows and left a number of people hanging with no Sparrow and no
> refund.
Presumably the escrow account is sufficient for 100 people, anyway.
I would worry about other things -- how often do I need to replace
those really expensive tires, for example. Or, where do I go to
repair that all-carbon-fiber body? Or, how stiff is that suspension,
really? Or, what happens when I scrape the entire bottom off the car
going over my first speed bump?
On the otherhand, it's likely to be a hell of a collector's item.
-Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is the standard way (circle or oval). It is referred to as a driveline
safety loop (required by NEDRA and ICE vehicle faster than a certain speed).
If you do a search you will find pictures of different ones to make your own
from or summit racing, jegs, all the rational places seem to carry them.
KD
-eCobra http://ssinc.us/kitcar/index.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark E. Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 5:23 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Drive Shaft Containment
Hi,
I saw something in passing regarding drive shaft containment I think on
race cars (maybe from nedra). I was curious if there was a standard
recommended way of containing a driveshaft should the U joint pop off. I
noticed when I got my Cushman it was loose, popped off and banged the rear
end up in the air. Should a metal circle be mounted around each end?
Best Regards,
Mark
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David, I may be considered one of the fast guys on the list but I believe we
should have a slower and more affordable option besides NEVs. Although I
also think NEVs are great they are still limited by the roads they can
travel on. I personally am looking at developing a low voltage kit for small
cars like Honda Civics. If you keep the voltage at 72 then everything
becomes less expensive. The controllers for 72 volt systems cost half of
what one does for a 120-144 volt system. Batteries of course cost less. 450
amps in a light car will still feel like reasonable acceleration. Of course
trying to move more than two tons from a dead stop takes an enormous amount
more energy than moving a light car. This concept is of course a no brainer.
It is just that nobody has put out what I would term as a quality low
voltage kit. I know many of the fast crowd, of which I am a member, consider
96-120 volt systems as low voltage and there are already quality kits
available from Electro Automotive. I am also looking into the possibility of
a 48 volt AC drive city car type kit.
Roderick Wilde
EV Parts, Inc.
www.evparts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: Wilderness Electric Vehicle warning
On 16 Aug 2006 at 9:42, Richard Acuti wrote:
I think the amount of power the vehicle has to have is subject to the
individual's personal desires.
Quite true. With no disrespect intended, this list is partly populated by
a
contingent of people who love fast cars and can't abide the typical 96
volt
or 120 volt DC conversion. A car that takes 20 seconds or more to reach
60
mph would drive them nuts.
But there are also plenty of others here, myself included, who drive very
moderately (some would say "like a granny" ;-). We don't need or want
neck-
snapping acceleration. We're che- oops, I mean frugal, and we don't want
to
spend 3-5 times as much per mile for high-current AGM batteries. We
aren't
quite as "vocal" as the fast EV guys. They post more and argue
passionately. We tend to post less and state our cases quietly. But we
are
here, and we'll try to respond too.
Only you know what you want and need in an EV.
But - listen to everyone, including the fast guys, because they have lots
of
experience. Don't take it personally if they suggest that your car is
slow.
They're just voicing their opinions; they're not trying to beat up on your
for going the route that's right for you. Tough it out, make up your own
mind. We all argue (sometimes with great enthusiasm ;-) for what we think
is important. In the end, it's up to you to take it all in and decide for
yourself.
I say that if your C-van is working for you, that's one more EV on the
road
and one more reason for all of us to celebrate. Bravo!
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.10/419 - Release Date: 8/15/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.10/419 - Release Date: 8/15/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, everybody:
I've been to www.evparts.com and seen their FAQ list, but STILL can't find
this stuff. What do these terms stand for:
SOC=State of Charge?
PMSM=Permanent Magnet Series Motor?
IGBT=Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor (IGBT)
DOD= Only thing I can think of is Department of Defense
UQM= UQM Technologiess?
http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/uqm_deere_hybrid_tractor.html
BLDC= Brushless DC (BLDC) Motor
IIRC= If I Recal/Remember Correctly Internet Acronyms Dictionary
Thanks!
Ryan G. Plut
"Common sense is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it" -
G. Bernard Shaw
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Klingensmith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: IGBTs and DC controllers
Joe Vitek wrote:
What are the typical IGBTs used in monster DC motor controllers? I am
just curious how
much they cost to build something that will handle 2000 amps for short
bursts.
--
joe
Several hundred for the IGBT and diode modules.
Each time you blow them up ;-)
--
Martin K
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8/16/06, Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I wonder if somebody knows someone inside the Dell factory...
I'm getting the idea that those thousands of recalled li-ion battery
packs could disappear out of their trash bin in a mutually convenient
occurance.
Danny
If they are recalling them because they might catch fire, do you
really want them in your car or any device?
--
Edward Ang
President
AIR Lab Corp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 16 Aug 2006 at 8:25, Roderick Wilde wrote:
> I
> personally am looking at developing a low voltage kit for small cars like
> Honda Civics.
I think this is an excellent idea. The only problem you might have is that
it's gotten very difficult to find lightweight late-model cars. Not many
come in under 2500 lb any more. Late 90s Civic hatchbacks are in the 2300
lb range, I believe. You might have to go with something like a Kia Rio /
Avella type.
> possibility of a 48 volt AC drive city car type kit.
This sounds interesting too! Maybe 45 mph or so top speed? If it had
reasonable pep getting there, it might well have a market.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not reach me.
To send a private message, please obtain my email address from
the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ - the former contact address
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) will soon disappear.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In certain drag racing classes, a drive shaft loop is required.
David C. Wilker Jr.
United States Air Force, Retired
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 5:23 AM
Subject: Drive Shaft Containment
Hi,
I saw something in passing regarding drive shaft containment I think on
race cars (maybe from nedra). I was curious if there was a standard
recommended way of containing a driveshaft should the U joint pop off. I
noticed when I got my Cushman it was loose, popped off and banged the rear
end up in the air. Should a metal circle be mounted around each end?
Best Regards,
Mark
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover asked:
> Is there a simple way to increase the upper end of the voltage
> range? I mean, are there some
> simple component changes that would raise the supported voltage
> to the 450v range?
Easiest way I can think of is to use 2 or more of the Vicor DC-DC modules
connected across series sets of your batteries and with their outputs either
in a parallel boost configuration (currents add), or in series (voltage
outputs add).
So, for example, connect a Vicor 1st generation 200-400v (nom.300v) input
converter across half your pack and a second identical Vicor across the
other half. If the outputs are 6v, connect them in series for 12v. If the
outputs are 12v, you'll need to connect the outputs in parallel thru some
current sharing circuitry.
In any case, the 1st gen Vicors are cheap on the surplus market and easily
the best way to go.
To do series outputs to get 12v, you don't need modules rated at 6v out.
You can use a 3v and a 9v output, or 12v output converters trimmed down to
6v each. They're very versatile.
-Myles Twete, Portland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I only have a 200 watt array but close to 10 hours of sunlight and a
Watsun tracker
The MPPT controllers are supposed to get better performance
considering this controller
http://www.windandsunpower.com/store/BZ_files/MPPT500HV.htm
have hooked the panels direct to the 220 ah 48 volt pack (runs about
3 amps) but a controller would be nice.
I was told that at 3 amps I may not need a controller but just a
diode to prevent reverse flow at night. As long as I do not run the
batteries out of water ??
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 8/15/06, jmygann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Anyone have any experience doing this ??
> >
> > On a 48 volt system ... panels and vehicle ... any
reccomendation on
> > a charge controller ?
> >
> > These are nice but ???
> >
> > http://www.affordable-
solar.com/outback.mx60.mppt.charge.controller.htm
>
> I've used the MX60 with a 3kW array (charging 48V), and would
highly
> reccommend it.
>
> What's your intention exactly?
>
> Regards
> Evan
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
*Finland Company Develops Revolutionary New Batteries **
***20 Times more powerful and not based on Acid Technology... This is good!
**
*EUROPOSITRON: Finland*
Todays batteries are still based on 1950's technology... Acid based, ,weak,
heavy, clunky batteries are the only reason electric cars are not on the
streets...
Europositron, Finland has announced pending design and marketing plans for
Nano-Scale based batteries that will make an electric car go twice as far as
a gas car goes on one tank of gas..."for free!"... These are 3-5 years away
from being on sale and there is a big contraversy about how GM "supressed" a
Japanese company who almost came out with a NiMH battery last year, but the
Japanese company had based their battery on an US patent. Almost as exciting
was a Li-ion (Lithium) technology coming from a California based company
which promised to improve batt-life by up to 300 percent.
But none of these compare to the EUROPOSITRON "NANO SCALE" battery;
This revolutionary technology does not use acid... these batteries ue the
most abundant metal in the world...Aluminum.
Based on Nobel Peace Prize winner Richard P. Feynman (1959) formulas,
Europositron's cell construction has pending patents worldwide. The batterey
will also have remarkable operating temperature ratings - FROM 40 DEGREES
POSITVE to 70 NEGATIVE (centigrade)
THAT'S NOT ALL! The batteries expected usable lifespan will be 10 to 30
years!!!
To put this in real terms; If you own a Pontiac Fiero, that has been
converted to electric. Your range prior to conversion was about 240 miles.
When you dropped the Electric motor and the 12 batteries you bought from
Walmart your range dropped to 40 to 50 miles. But this was good because you
could drive by the gas stations in your town and laugh.
In a couple years you will replace the lead acid batteries with
EUROPOSITRONS... Your range per charge will then become MORE THAN 800-1000
MILES!!! Given your daily comute of just 15 miles, this means you will only
have to plug your electric car in ONCE EVERY TWO MONTHS!
Your gas bill that was $100 a month in 2006 has been replaced by a whopping
$5 per month electricity charge.
Europositron Information - Europositron.com
You are witnessing exactly how Electric Cars will finally phase out gas
burners!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dave an' EVerybody;
Well, that there IS a market for EV's is being proven, by now!As somebody
said a few weaks ago on here; If you don't take care of your customers,
somebody ELSE will. Hear that General Murders? As for the Tesla, keep in
mind I think it was Comodore Vanderbilt, when somebody asked him how much it
cost to keep his yacht afloat he remarked ;" If I had to worry about how
much it cost, I wouldn't own it" Or something like that. Not his exact
words, but I can quote him loosly. Those guyz that plunked down 100k could
probably loose it easier than us common folks reading my, a Nobody's
,writings<g>. In closer reality, maybe ya remembrert the first VCR's? Bigger
than a suitcase, heavy as a small locomotive, cost over 1200 bux? Now, they
all but GIVE them away at Wally*Mart. My DVD player cost me 20 bux AFTER a
Snail Mail rebate.Still works two years later!My FIRST one bit the dust
early on, threw it away. Of course I have a housefull of Boom Boxes thast
the godamn CD player shit out early on, like about two months, but the
cassete tape player is just FINE. Which is OK with me as I play taped
Victrola records most of the time anyhow<g>!
As for Tesla Drivers, to TRY to get back on topic, have deep pockets,
and WOULD go after Tesla, big time, if the cars wern't forthcoming?Tesla has
lottsa startup cash, and I'm SURE they have put some deposit money in
escrow, at five percent, just in case?They have enough startup to build the
damn car from the getgo!!Isn't a hand-to-mouth outfit, like, say, me.Being
as it is a rather pricy item, it will probably be loved and cared for, by
it's new owner, like a firstborn kid. No off roading, squeeling out and
other acrobatics, you would do as a teenager? Plasma Boy excepted<g>!Celebs,
movie stars, captains of industry, will start to show up in tesla's. Has Jay
Leno signed up? He would do a SHOW on his, I'm sure. As you know he is a car
hobbiest, and has the means to support his hobby! His garage is a fantesy
land to us cheepo motorheads, ELECTRIC motorheads, or Ampheads.
My two watts worth
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "David C. Navas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Tom Shay" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: article: Tesla Roadster Sells Out First 100 Cars
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I'm impressed! 100 people have paid $100,000 deposits for a Tesla.
> > I'd never pay a deposit like that. I wouldn't have an hour's peace of
> > mind while worrying about whether the company would fail to deliver
> > my car or refund my money. Corbin Motors took prepayments for
> > Sparrows and left a number of people hanging with no Sparrow and no
> > refund.
>
> Presumably the escrow account is sufficient for 100 people, anyway.
> I would worry about other things -- how often do I need to replace
> those really expensive tires, for example. Or, where do I go to
> repair that all-carbon-fiber body? Or, how stiff is that suspension,
> really? Or, what happens when I scrape the entire bottom off the car
> going over my first speed bump?
>
> On the otherhand, it's likely to be a hell of a collector's item.
>
> -Dave
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not sure if it's a requirement, but it probably is (or at least should be). On
rear wheel drive vehicles a drive shaft loop will prevent the drive shaft from
becomming a lever arm from launching the vehicle in the event of a detachment.
They can be bought at many race parts stores. They are an elongated O loop that
usually goes about a foot behind the transmission. They're cheap and offer a
good bit of saftey for the buck.
Hi,
I saw something in passing regarding drive shaft containment I think
on race cars (maybe from nedra). I was curious if there was a standard
recommended way of containing a driveshaft should the U joint pop off.
I noticed when I got my Cushman it was loose, popped off and banged the
rear end up in the air. Should a metal circle be mounted around each
end?
Best Regards,
Mark
Later,
Ricky
02 Insight
92 Saturn SC2 EV 144 Volt
Glendale, AZ USA
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8/16/06, David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 16 Aug 2006 at 8:25, Roderick Wilde wrote:
> I
> personally am looking at developing a low voltage kit for small cars like
> Honda Civics.
I think this is an excellent idea. The only problem you might have is that
it's gotten very difficult to find lightweight late-model cars. Not many
come in under 2500 lb any more. Late 90s Civic hatchbacks are in the 2300
lb range, I believe. You might have to go with something like a Kia Rio /
Avella type.
Just for contrast, GM have started selling the Daewoo Matiz over here
with a Chevrolet badge (for some reason).
http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/models/matiz_55/index.htm
This 4-door car weighs about 750kG (1700 pounds).
--- End Message ---
