EV Digest 5803
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Variac on 240vac?
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) FT and Crews Location
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Radio's? WAS Re: I don't need a dc-dc converter
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Homebrew Segway
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: corroding wires - *inside* the insulation!?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Variac on 240vac?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Apple recalls 1.8 million laptop batteries / A123 battery fire
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Homebrew Segway
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV grin is back!
by Jack Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: EV grin is back!
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Apple recalls 1.8 million laptop batteries / A123 battery
fire
by Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Plated or solid nickel?
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 06 NEDRA Late Nite Nationals
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Time for a reminder on fuel-door detection
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Nissan Hyperminis gone
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) NEDRA Awards Announcement
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: #17
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) S-15 EV back on the road!
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Potbox alternative
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Potbox alternative
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: GonePostal.AVI Now in the Que.....
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV grin is back!
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: A bit cleaner air on the lake today
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: GonePostal.AVI Now in the Que.....
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) EVLN(Ukiah heartbroken over Hypermini loss)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: 06 NEDRA Late Nite Nationals
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
27) Re: Crushing EVs like in WKTEC: (Nissan Hyperminis gone)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
No! A variac rated for 120 volts can tolerate perhaps 150 volts.
At higher voltages, its iron core saturates and its magnetizing
current goes sky high. It might survive 240 volts if protected by
a fast fuse. Variacs rated for 240 volts are available. You might
be able to cobble something together using two 120-volt variacs
connected in series.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 9:14 AM
Subject: Variac on 240vac?
I have a couple standard Variacs with 120vac inputs. I'd like to know
if I can use one on 240vac at very low curren output, to put the
initialization charge on the BB600 nicads that should arrive soon.
Will it smoke?
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just got off the phone with FT and they are now between Davenport and Des
Moines Iowa. These guys are making great time on their way to the RPM Trade
Show with "White Zombie" in tow, http://www.aera.org/rpm/attend/index.html
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland Wiench wrote:
> I can get AM FM GM or any of XM clear as a bell in my EV or
> in my house when my PFC-50B running wide open.
Bob Rice wrote:
> > AM Radio?? Hah! Forgetaboutit! With all the electrical
> > NOISE in a home made EV, you're damn lucky to EVen GET FM,
> > if it is a good strong station.
I can't comment on the PFC20/50 charger noise, but am pleased to report
that I can listen to AM or FM just fine in my EV without resorting to
the sort of outrageous ;^> measures Roland uses in his. I haven't tried
using my XM receiver in the EV yet, but don't expect any problems with
it either.
I don't notice any noise on FM at all, and can only hear switching noise
on AM when tuned between stations such that the AGC winds up; as soon as
I tune onto an AM station the sound becomes clear.
The only special measures I've taken is to try to keep the traction
wiring loop area small (i.e. keep the pack +/- leads to the controller
bundled close together, and the wires between the controller and motor
bundled together). The batteries are enclosed in steel boxes, but the
traction wiring is run in non-matallic conduit (though entirely outside
of the passenger compartment).
The 12V system wiring is bone stock.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/meta/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> Jim Coate wrote:
> > one sense lead for the BMS is definitely in trouble: connectors at
> > both ends were corroded. But as I prepare to make a replacement, the
> > strange part is the entire wire is corroded, inside the insulation!
>
> That's not uncommon, particularly with stranded wire. There
> is actually an air space between the strands, and sometimes
> between the plastic insulation and the wire. Electrolyte
> that gets onto one end of the wire wicks its way down the wire.
It is actually not uncommon even on ICE vehicles. I've seen exactly
this phenomenon afflicting tail light/trailer wiring on any number of
vehicles, so I doubt that electrolyte is to blame.
It isn't something to be particularly concerned about, as the corrosion
is on the surface of the strands. It just makes it a pain to get the
strands cleaned sufficiently that you can solder on a replacement
connector.
If the corrosion really causes you to lose sleep, make new sense leads
using wire from a marine supplier; wire for marine use should have each
strand individually tinned along its entire length inside the
insulation.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a 220vdc Variac you can borrow Mike. Lawrence
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 9:14 AM
Subject: Variac on 240vac?
> I have a couple standard Variacs with 120vac inputs. I'd like to know
> if I can use one on 240vac at very low curren output, to put the
> initialization charge on the BB600 nicads that should arrive soon.
>
> Will it smoke?
>
> Mike
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dube wrote:
> Internal short in an A123 Systems cell would NOT cause a fire. It
> might cause the electrolyte to vent. IF there were an external
> ignition source, then the vented electrolyte could possibly burn,
> external to the cell. The cell itself WON'T burn internally.
Can you elaborate on this Bill?
I am curious as to what would prevent the electrolyte from burning
inside the cell if it is capable of burning after venting. It seems you
are stressing the need for an external ignition source, but it is not
obvious why an ignition source inside the cell could not set the
electrolyte on fire.
For instance, it seems a typical nail penetration test involves piercing
the cell with a relatively massive nail, and leaving the nail in place
while waiting to see if anything happens; this is not necessarily going
to result in the same behaviour as a very small (low thermal mass)
internal short that causes severe localised heating and then vaporises,
possibly resulting in an arc (ignition source internal to the cell) as
it does so. (Also, the nail penetration test is performed on a single
cell, not a long string of cells or group of paralleled cells.)
Another question is with regards to the statement that there is no
metallic Li available in the A123 cells. With other Li cells, Li metal
will plate out to a greater or lesser extent depending on the charge
rate, etc.; while there may be "no" metallic Li in an A123 cell under
normal circumstances, is there anything about the cell that precludes
metallic Li plating out under an abusive (e.g. high rate) charging
scheme?
Thanks,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Awesome! I have a whole bunch of OSMC and MOB boards around here. Cool
project.
That fellow must be from the OSMC group eh?
Mike
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/meta/
>
>
Here's to the crazy ones.
The misfits.
The rebels.
The troublemakers.
The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently
The ones that change the world!!
www.RotorDesign.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree with Roger here, I was going to say about the same thing..
DC/DC is not required. Controller, forget making your own, you'd
destroy more $ testing it than it cost to buy a used one. Charger, if
really pressed, use a cheap 6-12v charger and charge each battery
individually. Might find used batteries too to get the car going.
Frankly, I'd try to find a used vehicle conversion that has been
abandoned, might get most of the parts.
Jack
Roger Stockton wrote:
Mark McCurdy wrote:
I've started buying stuff and was looking for advice on a
controller. I will proably be getting a 9" ADC motor
(4001A maybe) and was wanting a cheap controller (scarse
cash) anyone got one in the US that will handle up to
120volts/500-600 amps max?
I would suggest looking for a GE EV-1 controller removed from a Jet
Industries conversion (e.g. Electrica 007, etc.). This controller
handles up to 144V and delivers 450A. You ought to be able to find one
in good working condition for less than $100-200 from someone who has
upgraded their EV to a more modern controller such as a Curtis.
I've ordered some runman 2B battery regulator PCBs and
instructions to assemble as practice.
I will probably get a PFC20 charger so it can be connected
to the regulators, battery pack life is a major concern,
but I don't want to (can't, really, unless I want to take 2
years paying) pay retail for a controller or DC/DC
I'm a bit confused by this; you make it clear that you are on a budget
yet you are buying regulators and a (relatively) expensive charger.
If battery life and penny pinching are both concerns, then you should be
planning on using flooded 6V golf cart batteries, which are the cheapest
to operate, and have fairly simple charge requirements. They do not
require regulators; regs may reduce water usage somewhat, however, this
is just going to affect how often you need to check the water levels and
top up the batteries.
You can also get by with a simpler, less costly charger when using
flooded batteries. The PFC20 is a good product, and has the advantage
of being able to plug into either 120VAC or 240VAC, however, for the
usage pattern you describe this probably isn't a particular advantage.
You are only planning on very short trips, and a pack of 6V floodeds
will last years in this sort of usage and have lots of additional
capacity onhand should you need to run some unforseen errands between
charges. In short, you would not likely be benefiting from the quicker
recharge times that the PFC20 could offer when fed 240VAC since you
would likely not need to charge except at home overnight.
Chargers are much simpler than controllers, so if you were going to
build something, I'd suggest putting the PFC20 money into a controller
(perhaps a Curtis 1231C given your modest performance requirements) and
building your own charger instead.
As for the DC/DC, if money is really that tight, just run a 12V battery
and no DC/DC. Yes, it has all of the drawbacks mentioned recently on
the list, but it is certainly doable, especially if you are looking at
driving only 10mi a day (perhaps 45min-1hr total commute time?). DC/DCs
(Iota, Todd, etc.) are only a couple of hundred dollars, so if you can't
afford one right away, don't sweat it; run a 12V battery alone and add
the DC/DC when funds permit.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jack Murray wrote:
> Frankly, I'd try to find a used vehicle conversion that has been
> abandoned, might get most of the parts.
Very good advice, Jack!
I bought my first EV from a local fellow for less than the cost of a new
ADC 8" motor. Yes, it needed a set of batteries (16x6V floodeds) to be
back up and running, but otherwise it was complete (controller, small
DC/DC, GM vacuum pump, etc.), and even on the old batteries I could
drive it short distances.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The cell is sealed. There is no oxygen inside the cell. The
electrolyte can't burn without oxygen.
At 04:31 PM 8/28/2006, you wrote:
Bill Dube wrote:
> Internal short in an A123 Systems cell would NOT cause a fire. It
> might cause the electrolyte to vent. IF there were an external
> ignition source, then the vented electrolyte could possibly burn,
> external to the cell. The cell itself WON'T burn internally.
Can you elaborate on this Bill?
I am curious as to what would prevent the electrolyte from burning
inside the cell if it is capable of burning after venting. It seems you
are stressing the need for an external ignition source, but it is not
obvious why an ignition source inside the cell could not set the
electrolyte on fire.
For instance, it seems a typical nail penetration test involves piercing
the cell with a relatively massive nail, and leaving the nail in place
while waiting to see if anything happens; this is not necessarily going
to result in the same behaviour as a very small (low thermal mass)
internal short that causes severe localised heating and then vaporises,
possibly resulting in an arc (ignition source internal to the cell) as
it does so. (Also, the nail penetration test is performed on a single
cell, not a long string of cells or group of paralleled cells.)
Another question is with regards to the statement that there is no
metallic Li available in the A123 cells. With other Li cells, Li metal
will plate out to a greater or lesser extent depending on the charge
rate, etc.; while there may be "no" metallic Li in an A123 cell under
normal circumstances, is there anything about the cell that precludes
metallic Li plating out under an abusive (e.g. high rate) charging
scheme?
Thanks,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone gouged, scratched or filed the terminal posts on a BB600
Nicad to see if it's nickel plated or solid nickel?
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My hats off to all the nedra VIPs that did so well in front of all the press
that was there. Good Show!!!
Now to
the fire/safety stuff I have on my mind and that which may be presented to me
at the NHRA/Summit division 7 finals in Bakersfield by the div 6 techs(which
will tech my car).If my batteries catch fire in there semi sealed compartment I
would not be able to get the lid off in time,also my dragster body is made of
mag which once lit will be difficult to put out.Is it time for me and all of
us to have an onboard fire system?Now for those lucky enough to have these
flaming lithos maybe they should have a mandatory fire system now before any
more
runs down a NHRA track. The Current Eliminator Dragster has always been a
safe racer,is it time for enhancements? Dennis Berube No fires in
4500+ runs but it only takes once!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electro Automotive wrote:
First I've heard of doing it this way. We use a relay that disables
the ignition key automatically when AC power up the charger.
The advantage of putting a sensor on the fuel door or inlet is that it
will work even if AC power is not applied, but the cord is still
installed. For example, your relay would still allow the user to
driveoff if the breaker tripped, or if the wall socket end of the cord
had been unplugged.
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, the fact the big companies continue this practice will only help the
smaller guys grab market share once they start production. At least electric
only manufacturers won't have the cognitive dissonance involved in having to
also porduce and market dirty inefficient vehicles.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, August 28, 2006 11:33 am
Subject: Nissan Hyperminis gone
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> 2. Nissan Hyperminis gone
> Posted by: "Sherry Boschert" [EMAIL PROTECTED] shaalub
> Date: Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:55 pm (PDT)
>
> Nissan has repossessed the electric Hyperminis that
> the City of Pasadena had hoped to continue leasing.
> Thank you to all of you who called Nissan trying to
> avoid this outcome.
>
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
> August 24, 2006
>
> Nissan Destroying Working Electric Vehicles Despite
> Demands to Keep them on the Road
>
> Plug In America condemns Nissan for confiscating
> 11 Pasadena Hypermini Electric Vehicles (EVs)
> despite the fact that the mayor and many citizens
> wanted to keep the cars on the road and in the city's
> fleet.
>
> Wednesday, August 23rd, Nissan sent transport trucks
> to Pasadena's city yards where the Hypermini cars were
> loaded up and hauled away.
>
> Nissan's confiscation of the Hypermini electric cars
> and resulting controversy parallels events
> highlighted in the current film release of "Who Killed
> the Electric Car?" which screened in Pasadena as
> Wednesday's events unfolded. As with GM's destruction
> of their EV1 electric vehicle chronicled in the film,
> Nissan insisted that Pasadena return the cars for
> destruction in spite of Pasadena's explicit desire to
> continue using these zero-emission vehicles,
>
> Unlike Ford and Toyota, who stopped corporate crushing
> practices when confronted by EV advocates, Nissan has
> taken up General Motors' despicable practice of
> destroying perfectly functional pollution-free cars;
> cars that Pasadena used extensively at the Rose Bowl,
> Art Center functions, parking enforcement, and
> customer service calls.
>
> Nissan's timing could not be worse. The media and the
> American public are finally starting to envision
> plug-in vehicles as a viable solution to global
> warming and national security problems. In spite of
> this, Nissan is stubbornly moving to kill its own EV
> program.
>
> Despite the recent introduction of the Tesla Electric
> Roadster and recent foreign company announcements of
> planned EV imports to the American market, the six
> major car manufacturers have nearly succeeded in their
> attempt to "crush" any evidence of electric cars that
> were initially manufactured to satisfy the Zero
> Emission Vehicle Mandate passed by the California Air
> Resources Board (CARB).
>
> Ironically, as the Air Resources Board starts its
> regular review cycle of the ZEV mandate many voices
> are calling for renewed emphasis on plug-in vehicles
> as a path to near term air quality gains, but the
> major auto-makers continue, not only to ignore this
> important technology, but to actively remove working
> examples from California's roadways.
>
> As noted last week in a letter to Nissan America CEO
> Carlos Ghosn, Plug In America hopes that Nissan
> will reconsider and do the right thing for all of us
> who breathe the air in California, by keeping these
> zero-emission cars on the road.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This year's Nationals was indeed like the old days and the comradery was
everywhere.We had two new awards this year besides the coveted Rannberg Cup.
This goes to the person that the NEDRA board feels has done the most to
further the sport of electric drag racing in the past year. This year that
award went to Matt Graham who unfortunately was not present to accept it.
One new award is the Technical Achievement Award. The board felt that this
recipient was well past due for this honor. It was awarded to Otmar
Ebenhoech. The final award is an even newer and one of the board members did
not even get a chance to vote on it, namely the recipient. This years,
NEDRA's Most Valuable Asset Award goes to non other than the artist, the
webmaster, the director of pulling it all together, yes our very own beloved
Chip Gribben. A hearty round of applause and a grateful thank you to the
many jobs well done from all of us at NEDRA.
Roderick Wilde
NEDRA Marketing Director
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/428 - Release Date: 8/25/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sharon,
Can you tell us approximately how long it typically takes (man/woman hours)
your (well experienced) firm to complete a typical conversion and what that
translates into in terms of elapsed calendar time (e.g. days weeks months)? I
am assuming a sedan or pickup truck conversion capable of highway speeds here.
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council (DEVC)
Kawasaki Ninja EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for all the help on the list that gave my little EV two sort of
successes in a row and got it back to driveable. First was replacing the
incorrect lurching 0-2.5k potbox with a curtis 0-5k PB6 with an extra return
spring. I keep thinking where were all the recent posts about alternatives
before I bought one ;-) At least it works though which is well worth the money
and I can replace the pot if this wears out before I get my new EV. Since my
clutch is out the smooth start by itself is a must. I now get nice smooth
starts with a curtis 1231C and 9" in my S-15 and dare I say a little bit of
acceleration!
My speedometer has been out for a while and I had this old schwinn
cyclocomputer I got from target along time ago. I extended the wire with some
24AWG wire and put the reed switch on the sleeve for the parking brake and
gorilla glued a strong magnet to the outer drum on my rear left wheel. I
followed my wife to the gym and I was within 1/10th of a mile of her tripometer
with my distance after 10 miles which is accurate enough for me. Now I can see
officially how much faster than the speed limit I'm going to keep people from
riding my tail or cutting me off.
Thanks Again!
Mark hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about the tomco 14101?
http://tinyurl.com/fwfdx
About $12 on ebay, plus a shipping charge that seemed pretty high ($14
to CA), but still better than the $40 from mouser.*
*
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
Jeff Shanab wrote:
I mentioned this once before. Lets all check our ICE car manuals for a
5K throttle position sensor.
I think the Mitsubishi PU is a 6K pot. This is MUKUNI fuel ijection in
the 93-98 range, dodge, mitsubishi, etc.
I checked my GM and my Nissan and the resistance was too high for our
use, but it would be nice if we can find a throttle body with integral
throttle closed switch and TPS that is around 5K. I think this problem
has been solved by all the car manufactures with the advent of fuel
injection.
This is what my old mid-80's Chrysler Lebaron (TBI) used:
http://www.beiduncan.com/pdf/model_pdf/9811.9812.pdf
You can still get them for about $40 from mouser (much more from
Shucks/Kragen/Napa). I like this one because it has a built in return
spring, ~90 degress active rotation. CW & CCW models, and slotted
mounting holes for simple zero-adjusting.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know - it's not a "D" shaft, I can't seem to find the ohm
rating, and it doesn't have slotting mounting holes (no easy way to zero
adjust). I notice that this one is for the mutli-point FI (V6 and I4
turbo) engines. Those cars used different ECUs then the TBI cars, so the
resistance could be different.
I would stick with ones that you could verify the resistance over a 90
degree arc = 5Kohms. And don't Curtis potboxes use a "D" shaft for the pot?
Eric Poulsen wrote:
What about the tomco 14101?
http://tinyurl.com/fwfdx
About $12 on ebay, plus a shipping charge that seemed pretty high ($14
to CA), but still better than the $40 from mouser.*
*
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
Jeff Shanab wrote:
I mentioned this once before. Lets all check our ICE car manuals for a
5K throttle position sensor.
I think the Mitsubishi PU is a 6K pot. This is MUKUNI fuel ijection in
the 93-98 range, dodge, mitsubishi, etc.
I checked my GM and my Nissan and the resistance was too high for our
use, but it would be nice if we can find a throttle body with integral
throttle closed switch and TPS that is around 5K. I think this problem
has been solved by all the car manufactures with the advent of fuel
injection.
This is what my old mid-80's Chrysler Lebaron (TBI) used:
http://www.beiduncan.com/pdf/model_pdf/9811.9812.pdf
You can still get them for about $40 from mouser (much more from
Shucks/Kragen/Napa). I like this one because it has a built in return
spring, ~90 degress active rotation. CW & CCW models, and slotted
mounting holes for simple zero-adjusting.
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
Even when I corrected your URL with the proper formatting of
http://home.comcast.net/~stevenslough/GonePostal.AVI
^^
The file was not found and I was unable to view the video.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Only problem with trying to find abandoned is I'm in the Fort Smith AR area,
never heard of anyone near me working on an EV let alone abandoning one,
hehe
Hoping to get a cheap controller off ebay, couple of prospects there (hope
to win, would save me quite a bit of money/time/trouble)
Was planning on putting off the DC/DC anyway, if I couldn't find a low cost
one.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: EV grin is back!
I agree with Roger here, I was going to say about the same thing..
DC/DC is not required. Controller, forget making your own, you'd destroy
more $ testing it than it cost to buy a used one. Charger, if really
pressed, use a cheap 6-12v charger and charge each battery individually.
Might find used batteries too to get the car going.
Frankly, I'd try to find a used vehicle conversion that has been
abandoned, might get most of the parts.
Jack
Roger Stockton wrote:
Mark McCurdy wrote:
I've started buying stuff and was looking for advice on a controller. I
will proably be getting a 9" ADC motor
(4001A maybe) and was wanting a cheap controller (scarse
cash) anyone got one in the US that will handle up to 120volts/500-600
amps max?
I would suggest looking for a GE EV-1 controller removed from a Jet
Industries conversion (e.g. Electrica 007, etc.). This controller
handles up to 144V and delivers 450A. You ought to be able to find one
in good working condition for less than $100-200 from someone who has
upgraded their EV to a more modern controller such as a Curtis.
I've ordered some runman 2B battery regulator PCBs and instructions to
assemble as practice.
I will probably get a PFC20 charger so it can be connected
to the regulators, battery pack life is a major concern,
but I don't want to (can't, really, unless I want to take 2 years paying)
pay retail for a controller or DC/DC
I'm a bit confused by this; you make it clear that you are on a budget
yet you are buying regulators and a (relatively) expensive charger.
If battery life and penny pinching are both concerns, then you should be
planning on using flooded 6V golf cart batteries, which are the cheapest
to operate, and have fairly simple charge requirements. They do not
require regulators; regs may reduce water usage somewhat, however, this
is just going to affect how often you need to check the water levels and
top up the batteries.
You can also get by with a simpler, less costly charger when using
flooded batteries. The PFC20 is a good product, and has the advantage
of being able to plug into either 120VAC or 240VAC, however, for the
usage pattern you describe this probably isn't a particular advantage.
You are only planning on very short trips, and a pack of 6V floodeds
will last years in this sort of usage and have lots of additional
capacity onhand should you need to run some unforseen errands between
charges. In short, you would not likely be benefiting from the quicker
recharge times that the PFC20 could offer when fed 240VAC since you
would likely not need to charge except at home overnight.
Chargers are much simpler than controllers, so if you were going to
build something, I'd suggest putting the PFC20 money into a controller
(perhaps a Curtis 1231C given your modest performance requirements) and
building your own charger instead.
As for the DC/DC, if money is really that tight, just run a 12V battery
and no DC/DC. Yes, it has all of the drawbacks mentioned recently on
the list, but it is certainly doable, especially if you are looking at
driving only 10mi a day (perhaps 45min-1hr total commute time?). DC/DCs
(Iota, Todd, etc.) are only a couple of hundred dollars, so if you can't
afford one right away, don't sweat it; run a 12V battery alone and add
the DC/DC when funds permit.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hrrmmm... :-(
So 60% rated DOD is too far for a new flooded lead bat?
Well, then two 75Ah bats in parallel it is. That way I have double the
capacity I should ever use. I picked a bat that could provide my longest
typical run at 80% DOD, but spending 2-3 months (one trip per week) on
half the usable range until the bats break in kinda blows. I'll just
have to bump up my planned max usage (60Ah) and use that to establish my
80% DOD.
(60Ah * 150%) * 80% = 112.5 Ah @ 25A
So two 75Ah group 24 bats in parallel (~60Ah @ 12.5A) should leave me
sufficient reserve. Or should I double the planned usage to allow for
this "new battery syndrome"?
I was using the watch-the-amps-over-time to keep track of my DOD, but
thought that new bats had around 80% of their final capacity (ooops!)
Live and learn, eh? Thanks for the help! ;-)
Cor van de Water wrote:
Stefan,
Do not forget that you should not expect normal power
from a battery on its first run.
It must be broken in!
You may even have damaged it by taking it down so far.
After several tens of cycles the batteries are much
stronger and will deliver more power (higher voltage) for
a longer period.
This effect is especially visible when you use the batteries
every day, like in a daily driver.
If it is parked for a week, the batteries have less capacity
and show lower voltage.
After a few days of driving, they are peppy again and deliver
more power and more energy - especially immediately after charging.
Strange but true ( at least, that is my experience with the
AGM batteries so far).
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Steve for taking those videos!
They are linked from the NEDRA site now. Since I wasn't able to make
it and take pictures I'll just link the NEDRA site to other people's
galleries. If some EV photographers would like to send over a few
pics for the NEDRA site that would be great too. I'd like to have a
few pics on the site for historical purposes.
It sounded like you all had a good time!! Looking forward to reading
more stories
I spoke with Father Time earlier this afternoon. They were in Iowa
and hoping to get to the RPM show later tonight. He said they were
getting a bit "punchy" :-) It's a long drive. They are really
dedicated. But I think the EVs will cause quite a commotion amongst
all the gassers since its a racing engine rebuilding show. Especially
when they show their videos. Can't wait to hear how it goes.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
On Aug 28, 2006, at 4:00 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: August 28, 2006 2:13:04 PM EDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
<[email protected]>
Subject: GonePostal.AVI Now in the Que.....
Sorry about the error.. I am running out of room at my Web Site at
Comcast.net, ( when it comes to Mega-Byte Videos..) and I had
inadvertently left out Gone Postal's WINNING video.
So I shortened the video at the Point at which the Christmas Tree
Timing Lights start.... and it FITS!.
So it is NOW up and ready for your viewing... at:
http:/home.comcast.net/~stevenslough/GonePostal.AVI
We wish Don, Grandson and Roy a SAFE journey back to the Mid-West
to show off Zombie at the National Hot Rod SHOW... (what a long
drive !!!)
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Ukiah heartbroken over Hypermini loss)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_4248645
Article Launched: 08/28/2006 12:00:00 AM PDT
City lauded for electric car stance
By Cortney Fielding Staff Writer
PASADENA - Don Ballek is starting to get over the heartbreak of
losing his Northern California city's fleet of Nissan
Hyperminis.
The Ukiah economic development coordinator said he thought about
resisting their forfeiture - perhaps burying the five electric
cars in the backyard - when the automaker came calling in July.
But Ballek and the Hyperminis didn't go underground. Instead, the
city watched as a Nissan truck loaded the vehicles and set off
north to pick up others in Arcata.
Ballek said he understood the imperfect cars had to go. "They
were truly prototypes," he said. "The defrosters wouldn't work if
you had anything else going."
Still, he said, "for a small town - wow, were they great."
Last week, Pasadena joined the host of California cities that
have bid adieu to electric vehicles recalled by automakers.
After three weeks of negotiations and resistance that escalated
when the city refused to release the Hyperminis on Aug. 8, Nissan
collected its vehicles Wednesday evening.
Although ultimately losing in the effort to keep 11
green-and-white Hyperminis from a pair of metallic jaws, the
city's campaign won't go unnoted in the annals of electric car
history.
Pasadena is the first city in California to wage an organized
campaign against removal of electric vehicles, said Chelsea
Sexton, executive director of Plug In America.
While many municipalities, such as nearby Santa Monica, benefited
from recent campaigns by the electric car advocates to keep
Toyota and Ford hybrids, Pasadena took on a leadership role and
presented a united front, she said.
In the latest round of Nissan recalls, Pasadena was alone in its
aim to put up resistance.
"They were quite spirited," she said.
Pasadena leased the vehicles for five years. Nissan
representatives said the company relied on special legal
exemptions to operate the Japanese-made cars in the U.S., and
those exemptions were set to expire.
Saying the cars were part of a temporary experiment that had
outlived its intended lifespan, Nissan declined to renew the
cars' lease agreements in December, and they had been stored in a
Public Works yard since late July.
After learning of Pasadena's plight, Plug In America
representatives showed up at a City Council meeting and offered
their support, which the city accepted.
Pasadena officials worked with advocates to draft a letter to
Nissan stating their intentions to keep the cars. Over the next
three weeks, the city stayed firm on its message and supported
Plug In's efforts to get the word out.
Two weeks ago, tension escalated when the city blocked Nissan's
attempt to take the vehicles. While the move was widely seen as
an act of defiance, city officials said the failure to release
was the result of a "procedural problem."
Mayor Bill Bogaard said he was proud of the city's actions and
said it will use the momentum gained for other environmental
programs such as recycling and building design.
"I'm glad we had a little skirmish," he said.
He said although the Hyperminis are a loss, it wasn't
unexpected.
Reviewing the terms of the Nissan lease "provided a little smoke"
and allowed the cars to stay in city possession a bit longer, but
Bogaard, himself a lawyer, said he knew "we didn't have a legal
leg to stand on."
In Ukiah, Ballek said he's having a hard time finding a
replacement for his Hyperminis. He's looked into everything from
electric golf carts to the electric scooter, Segways.
The city still has seven Honda Civic Hybrids, two Toyota Rav4's
and one Ford Ranger electric truck.
The city has other options, said Ed Kjaer, who manages the
largest fleet of zero-emission cars in the country at Southern
California Edison.
Pasadena can look into the use of flex-fuel cars, check for
opportunities to be involved in future plug-in demonstrations or
technical development programs and even look to reduce the size
of its existing gas fleet.
"There is no reason to hang heads and give up," he said.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (626) 578-6300, Ext. 4494
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis,
Great points, as usual you are right on top of the safety issues. Are you
thinking a handheld fire extinguisher in the cockpit (where??) or some type of
red button halon type system to protect the pack compartment? I have a couple
small NHRA approved aluminum handheld cockpit extinguishers floating around
that I will donate to CE next time we get together and I might have some of
the parts for a halon system in my aircraft salvage inventory, have to dig
around in the Junque yard. Let me know what way you are thinking. BTW my new
cell # is 602-512-5212. Talk to you soon, David Chapman.
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> My hats off to all the nedra VIPs that did so well in front of all the press
>
> that was there. Good Show!!!
>
> Now to
>
> the fire/safety stuff I have on my mind and that which may be presented to me
>
> at the NHRA/Summit division 7 finals in Bakersfield by the div 6 techs(which
>
> will tech my car).If my batteries catch fire in there semi sealed compartment
> I
> would not be able to get the lid off in time,also my dragster body is made of
>
> mag which once lit will be difficult to put out.Is it time for me and all of
>
> us to have an onboard fire system?Now for those lucky enough to have these
> flaming lithos maybe they should have a mandatory fire system now before any
> more
> runs down a NHRA track. The Current Eliminator Dragster has always been a
> safe racer,is it time for enhancements? Dennis Berube No fires in
>
> 4500+ runs but it only takes once!!
>
-------------------------------------------------
FastQ Communications
Providing Innovative Internet Solutions Since 1993
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Talking with the Nissan reps at EVS-17, Nissan spent a lot of R&D
time and money on the Hypermini and were very cautious about
letting the public drive it. As part of the press, I was allowed to
drive it. The hypermini had 'good enough' performance to survive on
American roads.
Images http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=hypermini
Image when at EVS-17 on the showroom floor:
http://www.geocities.com/evs_17/evs17001014-12.jpg
Images when at the Montreal race track. The line to ride in the
Hypermini was the longest of all the lines. Most of the people
shown in line would have a tough time fitting inside the small
vehicle http://www.geocities.com/evs_17/evs17001014-43.jpg
EVS-17 Hypermini images at the Montreal race track:
http://www.geocities.com/evs_17/evs17001016-1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/evs_17/evs17001016-2.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/evs_17/evs17001016-3.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/evs_17/evs17001016-4.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/evs_17/evs17001016-5.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/evs_17/evs17001017-9.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/evs_17/evs17001017-10.jpg
IMHO: Perhaps Nissan was focusing on a Japanese market use, but I
found the hypermini:
-body-style to be 'really ugly' DC smart-car knock-off, especially
when combined with the metalic yellowish-green paint job
-too small for Americans both in leg room and in head room
-not offered seriously to the American public to drive (leased
only to cities, etc.)
-and needed a conductive charging solution (i.e. like the 110 volt
1.2kW convenience charger that was offered with the EV1
http://www.ev1.pair.com/charge_across_america/graphics_for_Charge/photos/0bigdetails/ev1convchrgrb.jpg
...
I hope Mike's POST on this topic is right, but having lived through
seeing the huge amount of Oil/Automaker money spent to Kill EVs in
the 90's CARB mandate days, I am concerned there might be quiet
background actions taken by Oil/Automakers to keep small EV
companies small.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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