EV Digest 5804
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV grin is back!
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Radio's? WAS Re: I don't need a dc-dc converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: A bit cleaner air on the lake today
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Battery cooling (was: Re: 06 NEDRA Late Nite Nationals)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: GonePostal.AVI Now in the Que.....
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Homebrew Segway - OSMC
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: EV grin is back!
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV grin is back! - AR EV's
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Building a controller yourself
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: GonePostal.AVI Now in the Que.....
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: A bit cleaner air on the lake today
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Variac on 240vac?
by "Mark Grasser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Will it smoke
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: A note on potentiometers
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Building a controller yourself
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: A note on potentiometers
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: A bit cleaner air on the lake today
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) better search solution?
by Aaron Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Batteries
by Storm Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: the Mark Brueggemann Meter
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: GonePostal.AVI Now in the Que.....
by "David O'Neel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Danger den magII water pump
by "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: From woodburn last year to WOW this year, Late Night Nationals Report
part 2
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
From what I've been hearing, flooded leads last longer when closely
monitored during charging. I'm wanting the pack to last a minimum of 5
years, more if I can get it but wouldn't be surprised if they only lasted 3
years the first couple of packs (looking real long term here).
How long are people getting out of packs of flooded leads (mentioning if
you've got some form of regulator or monitoring on each battery)?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:00 PM
Subject: RE: EV grin is back!
Mark McCurdy wrote:
I've started buying stuff and was looking for advice on a
controller. I will proably be getting a 9" ADC motor
(4001A maybe) and was wanting a cheap controller (scarse
cash) anyone got one in the US that will handle up to
120volts/500-600 amps max?
I would suggest looking for a GE EV-1 controller removed from a Jet
Industries conversion (e.g. Electrica 007, etc.). This controller
handles up to 144V and delivers 450A. You ought to be able to find one
in good working condition for less than $100-200 from someone who has
upgraded their EV to a more modern controller such as a Curtis.
I've ordered some runman 2B battery regulator PCBs and
instructions to assemble as practice.
I will probably get a PFC20 charger so it can be connected
to the regulators, battery pack life is a major concern,
but I don't want to (can't, really, unless I want to take 2
years paying) pay retail for a controller or DC/DC
I'm a bit confused by this; you make it clear that you are on a budget
yet you are buying regulators and a (relatively) expensive charger.
If battery life and penny pinching are both concerns, then you should be
planning on using flooded 6V golf cart batteries, which are the cheapest
to operate, and have fairly simple charge requirements. They do not
require regulators; regs may reduce water usage somewhat, however, this
is just going to affect how often you need to check the water levels and
top up the batteries.
You can also get by with a simpler, less costly charger when using
flooded batteries. The PFC20 is a good product, and has the advantage
of being able to plug into either 120VAC or 240VAC, however, for the
usage pattern you describe this probably isn't a particular advantage.
You are only planning on very short trips, and a pack of 6V floodeds
will last years in this sort of usage and have lots of additional
capacity onhand should you need to run some unforseen errands between
charges. In short, you would not likely be benefiting from the quicker
recharge times that the PFC20 could offer when fed 240VAC since you
would likely not need to charge except at home overnight.
Chargers are much simpler than controllers, so if you were going to
build something, I'd suggest putting the PFC20 money into a controller
(perhaps a Curtis 1231C given your modest performance requirements) and
building your own charger instead.
As for the DC/DC, if money is really that tight, just run a 12V battery
and no DC/DC. Yes, it has all of the drawbacks mentioned recently on
the list, but it is certainly doable, especially if you are looking at
driving only 10mi a day (perhaps 45min-1hr total commute time?). DC/DCs
(Iota, Todd, etc.) are only a couple of hundred dollars, so if you can't
afford one right away, don't sweat it; run a 12V battery alone and add
the DC/DC when funds permit.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
> I can listen to AM or FM just fine in my EV... I don't notice any
> noise on FM at all, and can only hear switching noise on AM when
> tuned between stations such that the AGC winds up; as soon as I
> tune onto an AM station the sound becomes clear.
>
> The only special measures I've taken...
> - keep traction wiring loop area small (i.e. keep pack +/- leads
> to the controller bundled close together, and wires between the
> controller and motor bundled together)
> - batteries enclosed in [grounded] steel boxes
> - traction wiring run... entirely outside the passenger compartment
Same for me; FM is perfect, AM only has noise when not tuned to a
station. I have a 144v pack, Curtis 1231C controller, and Advanced DC
L91 6.7" motor. My EV is built very similar to what you described; pack,
controller, and motor wires bundled together in pairs, batteries in
grounded metal boxes, wiring entirely outside passenger compartment. One
slight improvement is that I ran the long front/rear wires inside metal
conduit.
It is perfectly practical to get good radio performance, simply by
"bottling up" the noise inside grounded boxes and shielded cable. It
takes a little more effort; but not much!
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
> So 60% rated DOD is too far for a new flooded lead bat?
Absolutely not.
> spending 2-3 months (one trip per week) on half the
> usable range until the bats break in kinda blows.
Bear in mind that how many cycles it takes the battery to build to full
capacity depends on the charger you use. It can take 10-20 cycles or it
can take 50.
> I was using the watch-the-amps-over-time to keep track of my DOD, but
> thought that new bats had around 80% of their final capacity (ooops!)
New batteries should have around 80% of their rated capacity within a
few cycles, if not right off the bat, if charged properly. They will
build up to somewhat higher than rated capacity over the next
10-50cycles and then slowly drop over subsequent cycles as their cycle
life is used up.
Rather than watching amps, watch the battery voltage under load. When
it gets down to 10.5V it is dead (100%DOD). To really get much value
from watching the amp-hours consumed you must have a good idea of what
your battery's capacity *really* is, not what the nameplate says, etc.
Watching the voltage tells you how full or empty the battery is,
regardless of how much you've taken out or how much you thought it held.
You might find it useful to do a bit of both. That is, cruise around
reasonably close to home until the battery is down to almost 10.5V, and
note how many Ah you managed to use. This is your battery's capacity
today. Now when you go out, you could watch the Ah and know that it is
time to head for home when you have taken out about 1/2 of the maximum
DOD you want to subject the battery to.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can someone please tell me why seemingly noone with a high performance EV
considers it important to keep their batteries from cooking under high load or
charge?
We all do this, don't we?
By packing all the batteries together with no way to get heat out between them,
the middle batteries or cells in the battery blocks simply cooks.
Example: The battery that Wayland let the smoke out of on Saturday was the one
dead center in the pack. Similar perhaps for Otmar's Exide post delam...
It wouldn't take a lot to design our boxes to incorporate honeycomb panels
between batteries allowing rigidity and the ability to duct ventilation air
between the batteries or cells (if NiCd or Lithiums).
I'd be interested to hear what battery cooling people have done and the results
for the high load cases.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> My hats off to all the nedra VIPs that did so well in front of all the press
> that was there. Good Show!!!
> Now to
> the fire/safety stuff I have on my mind and that which may be presented to me
> at the NHRA/Summit division 7 finals in Bakersfield by the div 6 techs(which
> will tech my car).If my batteries catch fire in there semi sealed compartment
> I
> would not be able to get the lid off in time,also my dragster body is made of
> mag which once lit will be difficult to put out.Is it time for me and all of
> us to have an onboard fire system?Now for those lucky enough to have these
> flaming lithos maybe they should have a mandatory fire system now before any
> more
> runs down a NHRA track. The Current Eliminator Dragster has always been a
> safe racer,is it time for enhancements? Dennis Berube No fires in
> 4500+ runs but it only takes once!!
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ahh!
I got the corrected URL off the Nedra site:
http://home.comcast.net/%7Estevenslough/GonePostal.AVI
and also worked around my browser's plug-in issue by loading the
URL up into a video player.
Steven, perhaps you can sweet-talk an EV List'r that has space and
bandwith on their web site so a higher resolution video could be
seen. A high res version of this video would help me promote NEDRA
EVents better.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those interested OSMC is open source motor control
group on yahoo.
Their description is;
"This mail list is intended to maintain a discussion
of design issues affecting the Open Source Motor
Controller Project. The hardware design in this
project will be open to anyone to build and experiment
with. We welcome hobbiests and professionals alike to
discuss the problems and solutions of building a
reliable PMDC motor controller. For more information,
see the project site at www.dmillard.com/osmc."
There are many open source motor control designs there
including my 3 phase BLDC control.
Rod
W8RNH
--- Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Awesome! I have a whole bunch of OSMC and MOB boards
> around here. Cool
> project.
>
> That fellow must be from the OSMC group eh?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > http://www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/meta/
> >
> >
>
>
> Here's to the crazy ones.
> The misfits.
> The rebels.
> The troublemakers.
> The round pegs in the square holes.
> The ones who see things differently
> The ones that change the world!!
>
> www.RotorDesign.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark McCurdy wrote:
> From what I've been hearing, flooded leads last longer when
> closely monitored during charging. I'm wanting the pack to
> last a minimum of 5 years, more if I can get it but wouldn't
> be surprised if they only lasted 3 years the first couple of
> packs (looking real long term here).
A primary attraction of floodeds is that they don't require close
monitoring during charge to deliver long service life.
Sealed batteries such as AGMs and gels require more care because there
is (generally) no way to replace electrolyte that is lost during charge
if a battery is subjected to conditions that cause it to vent. Flooded
batteries simply require that you check the water levels regularly and
replace the lost electrolyte with distilled water. (And you have to do
this whether you have regs or not; all regs may do is decrease the
frequency that you have to top them up.)
A 120V pack of flooded 6V golf cart batteries in something like an S10
ought to give you about 30mi range, so a daily round trip of 10mi is
about 30%DOD. These floodeds are typically spec'd to deliver about
600-700 cycles to 80%DOD, and the cycle life exhibits a
better-than-linear increase as the DOD is reduced. At <50%DOD, greater
than 1000-1200 cycles should be quite possible, and would correspond to
the 5years-ish life you hope for.
A Rudman Reg is intended to prevent a (sealed) battery from venting. It
is not potted or otherwise protected from contamination by electrolyte,
probably in part because it is intended primarily for use with sealed
batteries which are inherently less messy than floodeds. A stock Rudman
Reg is capable of bypassing about 2A continuously, which is fine for a
50Ah AGM, but quite low for a 220Ah flooded battery that typically
finishes at 4-6A (or even more as it ages). If your charger does not
reduce its output to a level that the regs can survive, you will fry
them; if it does reduce its output to this low level, it may not fully
charge your batteries or may take excessively long to do so. You can
get around this by intalling beefier external loads on the regs so they
can handle the higher finish rate appropriate for floodeds.
The Rudman Reg may be a great device for its target application
(protecting smallish AGMs from venting), and certainly shouldn't hurt
anything on a flooded pack, however, it is highly debatable whether the
potential benefits justify the costs with floodeds. Since you are
pinching your pennies this is definitely an area where you could save
money for more critical items. For instance, put the money you would
have spent on regs into a better charger; instead of building your own,
put the money toward that PFC20, or a Zivan, or Russco, etc., instead).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
I lived in Greenwood, AR from 1996 to 2000.
I had my 1984 Electric Fiero at the time along with
my golf cart,
My Fiero after I sold it to Jim pictured in my
driveway in Akron, OH
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/264
I sold it to Jim for $800 and he put a little work
into it including batteries. He sold it to Zap
in CA
http://www.zapworld.com/cars/salecars.asp
but they must have sold it (they were asking
$11,000!!!!) I wonder what somebody actually bought it
for?
My golf cart pictured in my driveway in Akron, OH
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/265
I bought this at a golf cart place in Fort Smith
for $200 and traded them a Curtis control and a
battery charger.
I upgraded it to a 400A Curtis control and Saft NiCd
batteries. I bought fancy rims and tires from
www.evparts.com
I worked at Baldor Motors and Drives while living in
AR.
Rod
W8RNH
--- Mark McCurdy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Only problem with trying to find abandoned is I'm in
> the Fort Smith AR area,
> never heard of anyone near me working on an EV let
> alone abandoning one,
> hehe
>
> Hoping to get a cheap controller off ebay, couple of
> prospects there (hope
> to win, would save me quite a bit of
> money/time/trouble)
>
> Was planning on putting off the DC/DC anyway, if I
> couldn't find a low cost
> one.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jack Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:09 PM
> Subject: Re: EV grin is back!
>
>
> >I agree with Roger here, I was going to say about
> the same thing..
> > DC/DC is not required. Controller, forget making
> your own, you'd destroy
> > more $ testing it than it cost to buy a used one.
> Charger, if really
> > pressed, use a cheap 6-12v charger and charge each
> battery individually.
> > Might find used batteries too to get the car
> going.
> > Frankly, I'd try to find a used vehicle conversion
> that has been
> > abandoned, might get most of the parts.
> > Jack
> >
> > Roger Stockton wrote:
> >> Mark McCurdy wrote:
> >>>I've started buying stuff and was looking for
> advice on a controller. I
> >>>will proably be getting a 9" ADC motor
> >>>(4001A maybe) and was wanting a cheap controller
> (scarse
> >>>cash) anyone got one in the US that will handle
> up to 120volts/500-600
> >>>amps max?
> >>
> >>
> >> I would suggest looking for a GE EV-1 controller
> removed from a Jet
> >> Industries conversion (e.g. Electrica 007, etc.).
> This controller
> >> handles up to 144V and delivers 450A. You ought
> to be able to find one
> >> in good working condition for less than $100-200
> from someone who has
> >> upgraded their EV to a more modern controller
> such as a Curtis.
> >>
> >>
> >>>I've ordered some runman 2B battery regulator
> PCBs and instructions to
> >>>assemble as practice.
> >>
> >>
> >>>I will probably get a PFC20 charger so it can be
> connected
> >>>to the regulators, battery pack life is a major
> concern,
> >>>but I don't want to (can't, really, unless I want
> to take 2 years paying)
> >>>pay retail for a controller or DC/DC
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm a bit confused by this; you make it clear
> that you are on a budget
> >> yet you are buying regulators and a (relatively)
> expensive charger.
> >>
> >> If battery life and penny pinching are both
> concerns, then you should be
> >> planning on using flooded 6V golf cart batteries,
> which are the cheapest
> >> to operate, and have fairly simple charge
> requirements. They do not
> >> require regulators; regs may reduce water usage
> somewhat, however, this
> >> is just going to affect how often you need to
> check the water levels and
> >> top up the batteries.
> >>
> >> You can also get by with a simpler, less costly
> charger when using
> >> flooded batteries. The PFC20 is a good product,
> and has the advantage
> >> of being able to plug into either 120VAC or
> 240VAC, however, for the
> >> usage pattern you describe this probably isn't a
> particular advantage.
> >> You are only planning on very short trips, and a
> pack of 6V floodeds
> >> will last years in this sort of usage and have
> lots of additional
> >> capacity onhand should you need to run some
> unforseen errands between
> >> charges. In short, you would not likely be
> benefiting from the quicker
> >> recharge times that the PFC20 could offer when
> fed 240VAC since you
> >> would likely not need to charge except at home
> overnight.
> >>
> >> Chargers are much simpler than controllers, so if
> you were going to
> >> build something, I'd suggest putting the PFC20
> money into a controller
> >> (perhaps a Curtis 1231C given your modest
> performance requirements) and
> >> building your own charger instead.
> >>
> >> As for the DC/DC, if money is really that tight,
> just run a 12V battery
> >> and no DC/DC. Yes, it has all of the drawbacks
> mentioned recently on
> >> the list, but it is certainly doable, especially
> if you are looking at
> >> driving only 10mi a day (perhaps 45min-1hr total
> commute time?). DC/DCs
> >> (Iota, Todd, etc.) are only a couple of hundred
> dollars, so if you can't
> >> afford one right away, don't sweat it; run a 12V
> battery alone and add
> >> the DC/DC when funds permit.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Roger.
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is worth running by Lee and the rest of the list. What shunt wound
motors are available? I'm thinking of something that with full (max)
field and pack voltage applied to the armature would "idle" around 1500
rpm. With such a system the "controller" can be nothing more than a
large wire-wound rheostat. Run a car alternator for your 12v system
(after all, this setup "idles".) Current limit is your right foot <g>,
but sometimes that is fun. (I could *never* run this system with GC
batteries :-)
The idea here is full smooth speed control, with ample power, in an
inexpensive package. Full regen is side effect. The controller is super
simple to build <g>. The DC>DC can be handled with equal ease and low
cost (without any loss of function.) A new throttle action is something
to learn (backing off the throttle at speed without pushing in the
clutch will result in regen.)
If I knew what more about this system I may even be tempted to try it
out in my Buggy. Such a change would have to be a winter project as I
would have to pull the transaxle and replace the input shaft, replace
the pedal cluster, and reweld one of the clutch cable tube support
brackets. Still, this system has always interested me. This system
seems like it could be useful. EVers please tell me more!
On Aug 28, 2006, at 8:57 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
For building your own, start with a series motor and contactor
controller. Simple, inexpensive, and dependable if you build it right.
There are lots of examples of 100-year-old EVs still running on their
stock controllers. Try to do *that* with modern electronics! :-)
Didn't most of those old EVs typically more than a simple series motor
(often tapped compound wound motors?)
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I viewed it just fine. What was the time on that run? Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: GonePostal.AVI Now in the Que.....
> Steve,
>
> Even when I corrected your URL with the proper formatting of
> http://home.comcast.net/~stevenslough/GonePostal.AVI
> ^^
>
> The file was not found and I was unable to view the video.
>
>
>
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> ===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you use more batteries they might last longer. They might not if you
don't take care of them. I'd cycle them out of the boat a few times. That
will break them in sooner. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: A bit cleaner air on the lake today
> Hrrmmm... :-(
>
> So 60% rated DOD is too far for a new flooded lead bat?
>
> Well, then two 75Ah bats in parallel it is. That way I have double the
> capacity I should ever use. I picked a bat that could provide my longest
> typical run at 80% DOD, but spending 2-3 months (one trip per week) on
> half the usable range until the bats break in kinda blows. I'll just
> have to bump up my planned max usage (60Ah) and use that to establish my
> 80% DOD.
>
> (60Ah * 150%) * 80% = 112.5 Ah @ 25A
>
> So two 75Ah group 24 bats in parallel (~60Ah @ 12.5A) should leave me
> sufficient reserve. Or should I double the planned usage to allow for
> this "new battery syndrome"?
>
> I was using the watch-the-amps-over-time to keep track of my DOD, but
> thought that new bats had around 80% of their final capacity (ooops!)
>
> Live and learn, eh? Thanks for the help! ;-)
>
>
> Cor van de Water wrote:
> > Stefan,
> >
> > Do not forget that you should not expect normal power
> > from a battery on its first run.
> > It must be broken in!
> > You may even have damaged it by taking it down so far.
> > After several tens of cycles the batteries are much
> > stronger and will deliver more power (higher voltage) for
> > a longer period.
> >
> > This effect is especially visible when you use the batteries
> > every day, like in a daily driver.
> > If it is parked for a week, the batteries have less capacity
> > and show lower voltage.
> > After a few days of driving, they are peppy again and deliver
> > more power and more energy - especially immediately after charging.
> > Strange but true ( at least, that is my experience with the
> > AGM batteries so far).
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-610-423-5743
> > Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Stefan T. Peters
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I run a 120 variac on my 240 volt bench. You simply run it on one line like
it's supposed to be and then use the other line at it's strait up voltage.
This way you have a variac that runs from ~120 to 240 as you turn the
variac.
Grasser
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 12:14 PM
Subject: Variac on 240vac?
I have a couple standard Variacs with 120vac inputs. I'd like to know
if I can use one on 240vac at very low curren output, to put the
initialization charge on the BB600 nicads that should arrive soon.
Will it smoke?
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a couple standard Variacs with 120vac inputs.
I'd like to know
> if I can use one on 240vac at very low curren
output, to put the
> initialization charge on the BB600 nicads that
should arrive soon.
>
> Will it smoke?
Couldn't you put 2 variacs in series?
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Finally, Victor implies that you can't have high reliability with a
cheap or homemade part. I disagree. First, you may be using a surplus or
used part, which is identical to the "new" part except for the price.
Second, obtaining high reliability is a matter of "know-how" and
attention to details --not price. There are endless examples of cheap
homemade items that nevertheless last essentially forever. You just have
to know what you're doing!
That's not quite what I implied. Hobby part can be made
relatively reliable, but remains hobby part.
If it would be as good as OEM part, OEM industry
would sure implement similar solution.
I use sliding audio pot for regen control.
6 years by now - no problem. is it good solution then?
Depends on the criteria. It *happen to* work well
(so far) in the environment it is not meant to work in,
so it is good hobby solution *for me* *for now*. I can
replace it if it fails, and keep spare one for that
purpose. But I expect it to start malfunction at any time
really. So even if it will work another 6 years,
it is NOT a good solution, because I'm never sure.
Would I install one in my next vehicle? I might,
because I know my vehicle and judge how critical
this component is and have past experience with it.
Would I personally recommend such a solution to a friend?
Perhaps. Would I recommend or sell this very same
solution as Metric Mind Engineering? No way!
Curtis does, but that tells me they don't care much
about reputation of their product. (Whether they can afford
not to care is different issue). Individual's have no need to
worry about reputation of the manufacturers/suppliers
they got components from, or even their own if they
recommend flawed solution to someone. Doesn't work -
replace it, what's a big deal, it's a hobby and
tinkering is fun after all, right?.
That's the difference.
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different.
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How did the early electric cars handle the controller issue? I know
they used voltage switching, series, parallel and such, but since the
didn't use actual solenoid type contactors, how did they
work? Sliding contacts or some such? Could such a thing be built at
home today? How do you prevent arcing?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
In medio stat virtus - Virtue is in the moderate, not the extreme
position. (Horace)
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Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Would I personally recommend such a solution to a friend?
> Perhaps. Would I recommend or sell this very same
> solution as Metric Mind Engineering? No way!
> Curtis does, but that tells me they don't care much
> about reputation of their product.
In all fairness, bear in mind that while Curtis sells to hobbiests, that
is not their main market, and neither are on-road vehicles.
While it appears clear that the pot they use is not particularly
long-lived in an on-road vehicle when subjected to the elements, this
does not mean it is an inappropriate part for the intended application,
which is primarily material handling equipment used indoors.
I have no doubt that if the OEMs to whom Curtis sells thousands of their
controllers and pot boxes found them to have reliability problems in the
intended application, Curtis would fit an appropriately rated pot.
Cheers,
Roger.
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Calvin King wrote:
Mike & Paula Willmon wrote:
Has anyone built one of these in genious meters by Mark
Brueggemann? Looks rather interesting to me and may try my hand
at it (after I get my truck on the road).
http://www.qsl.net/k5lxp/ev/evgauge/evgauge.html
Mike did you built Marks' meter? If you did give us a report.
Thanks,
Calvin
I know this is a long-dead thread... but while browsing for boat
fittings, I came across this:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/62338/0/0/meter/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0
It's battery-powered, so I assume those are small ammeter movements.
It's made for harsh environments, so it might do nicely as the basis for
a Brueggemann meter.
Just a thought.
--
Stefan T. Peters
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--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
Stefan T. Peters wrote:
spending 2-3 months (one trip per week) on half the
usable range until the bats break in kinda blows.
Bear in mind that how many cycles it takes the battery to build to full
capacity depends on the charger you use. It can take 10-20 cycles or it
can take 50.
It's a Soneil 1206S:
http://soneil.com/Completesets/SPEC1206S.022701.pdf
I was using the watch-the-amps-over-time to keep track of my DOD, but
thought that new bats had around 80% of their final capacity (ooops!)
...
Rather than watching amps, watch the battery voltage under load. When
it gets down to 10.5V it is dead (100%DOD). To really get much value
from watching the amp-hours consumed you must have a good idea of what
your battery's capacity *really* is, not what the nameplate says, etc.
Watching the voltage tells you how full or empty the battery is,
regardless of how much you've taken out or how much you thought it held.
...
So a voltmeter panel it is then... was planning on it, just haven't got
around to it yet (excuses, excuses, right?)
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--
Stefan T. Peters
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--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 28, 2006, at 7:06 PM, Stefan T. Peters wrote:
I know this is a long-dead thread... but while browsing for boat
fittings, I came across this:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/
10001/62338/0/0/meter/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0
That's cool - looks pretty good!
It's battery-powered, so I assume those are small ammeter movements.
It's made for harsh environments, so it might do nicely as the basis
for a Brueggemann meter.
I wanted more information, so I looked up the manufacturer's web site:
<http://www.weems-plath.com/>
The Endurance series meters are found on this PDF catalog section:
<http://www.weems-plath.com/uploaded_files/
subCategoryCatalog1139930149.pdf>
Sadly, these are six inches across and intended for mounting on the
wall of your office or cabin. I've no idea what the battery is for.
I'm thinking the battery reference only applies to the Endurance wall
clock.
If it wasn't the size of a headlight I'd look into it further.
Just a thought.
Thanks - keep looking!
--
Stefan T. Peters
--
Doug Weathers
Las Cruces, NM, USA
<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
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I am a newbie to the list and have only been doing research on an ev for a few
months now. There appears to be a huge wealth of information on this list.
However, there is no good way to seach through the threads for the questions
that I have. The only searches I have found are on the following page.
http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
But these return "digests" that have what I searched for and no good way to
follow the threads. And if I search for 2 words it gets worse.
I am quite interested in building an ev and have many (many, many) questions
that Im sure have all been answered on this list.
I suppose I could download all the digests, write some script to pull them
apart, port them to an email format and then read them in any email client.
But I think most (including me) would just give up on searching the list and
hope that re-posting questions will still return the same answers that have
already been given.
Is there some better way to search that I have just not found?
thanks,
Aaron
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee sez that range is primarily determined by the
weight of the batteries, and I agree with that.
>From US battery, the 8VGC battery weighs 69 lbs, the
6V US125 weighs 67 lbs. Assuming they were equal in
weight, I would think that 16 8v would be better than
16 6v in that the amperage would be kept lower. The
range would be a wash, but I would think the vehicle
would have better performance. Am I missing something?
It must be frustrating getting the same questions
repeatedly from newbies. Trying to get answers from
the archives is difficult- I'd say impossible based on
my experience. So thank you to those who keep at the education.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers wrote:
On Aug 28, 2006, at 7:06 PM, Stefan T. Peters wrote:
I know this is a long-dead thread... but while browsing for boat
fittings, I came across this:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/62338/0/0/meter/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0
...
Sadly, these are six inches across and intended for mounting on the
wall of your office or cabin. I've no idea what the battery is for.
I'm thinking the battery reference only applies to the Endurance wall
clock.
If it wasn't the size of a headlight I'd look into it further.
ENDURANCE 85: 4-1/8" base. 1-1/2" depth. 3-1/8" dial.
But sadly you are correct, it appears a typo on the west marine website.
The product manual reveals that is is a purely mechanical meter :_(
--
Stefan T. Peters
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--- Begin Message ---
It is difficult to tell from low res video, but I believe it came out as
follows:
GP -
79.73 mph
16.384 seconds
ICE competitor -
86.33 mph
16.539 seconds
On 8/28/06, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I viewed it just fine. What was the time on that run? Lawrence
Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: GonePostal.AVI Now in the Que.....
> Steve,
>
> Even when I corrected your URL with the proper formatting of
> http://home.comcast.net/~stevenslough/GonePostal.AVI
> ^^
>
> The file was not found and I was unable to view the video.
>
>
>
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> ===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All the info that I can find about the D4 says the voltage range is 8 - 13.2V.
Where do you find the 12-24 V specs?
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> The D4 isn't cheap and it is probably overkill for just Zilla cooling.
> But it meets all my requirements - water resistant, sufficient (overly)
> output, easy to mount, 12-24V operation, fairly compact, and quiet. It
> has also been proven in vehicle environments.
> -Ryan
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
Lets see if I can get back to where I left off...
Saturday arose to find us a little less frantic, which started with another
great breakfast at the Village Inn 8^) Back at the Wayland house it was far
more festive and Johns and his wife Cheryl through together a sandwhich spead
for EVerybody. John the video guy asked me if I'd do a little spot on camera
and with Eric (Johnson (?) did some improve video chatting 8^ ) Then it was
Waylands turn where he invited me to hang for some additional camera time.
John and I broke out with how we ended up hooking up and a bunch of goofy crap.
I had a blast, and for those who might end up seeing it that's about what we
are like when we hook up, hell maybe worse, hehe.
I helped Jay Donnaway drill and tap holes on his motor as I'd fabed some
tubed cover plates for the comm plate windows. With the comm plate tilted
(they all are) they don't line up level and it takes away from the fine job
Jays doing on his conversion. I'll have to offset a pair to even that out if
Jay will put up with me a bit longer 8^ P Jay did ring his car to PIR to show
it off and once this things done it will be sharp. Marko was there with Baby
blue ut he was also just showing and telling. Victor, Richard Rau, and the man
Richard is doing the car for came by also. There were others whos faces I know
but names that escape me, which makes me feel bad 8^(
The Oregonian article came out Saturday so there were a numer of people that
came out just because they saw it. The down side was it brought attention to
Battery Satan who realized he'd been asleep on post. The evening started out
good, but half way through the evening WZ laid injured at the end of the track.
This is the part I hate, waiting for the crawl back to the pit to find out
what went wrong. Pictures of manged Siamese BBQ shis cabob on a Dutchman stick
sickened my stomache. I had told Ted that if hurt my motor we was gonna have
words, so I was pumping up to.. Just kidding 8^ P Hearing that it was a
battery blowout was like Valuum to my ears, AHhhhh, thats Dick at Hawkers
problem, LMAO! Otmar, and FT also fell to the nasty battery demon. GP, and
Rich staved off their attacks to run another day. The almost hummorous thing
was that Marko towed them all back like a death procession of EV's all in line
behind him.
The last chunk of the evening was bandaging up the wounded for the trek home
and for WZ to Indiana.
About 11:00 we had the awards and raffle. I have to go backtrack a bit
here...
Brain Hall arrived and brought with him a Prima electric bike to raffle as
well. Roy asked if I could haul it up to PIR. I was busy so told him to throw
it in and I'll strap it down, which I did. On the way there I looked in my
rearviews to view my 6 and saw the bike there... I was like, thats looks
Gooood back there. I had one of those moments where I just felt like it had
found it's new home. That little voices shouted, you ain't gonna win that
bike. I decided I was gonna throw 20 bucks at it as I found I was wanting it
bad now, hehe. Not much was thought about it except when people were riding my
bike testing it out 8^ {
A ticket picker was chosen and the motor was raffled first where a Chris O.
was chosen. He swooped it were I was barely able to grab a pic, hehe. Next
was the bike. My heart was pounding as the ticket was pulled. She reads Jiiim
(I'm freaking about now)(and she pronounses my name correctly H-you-sted. I
now I screamed out yes at least once (for every ticket I bought) hehe. I
immeadiatly took my camera and snapped my picture which has been posted. So
I'm an EV'er now as proud owner of a beautiful bike courtisy of Brain Hall and
ThunderStruck which I will always treasure.
The night wore down and I went with Rod to Sherrys for a bite to eat and see
FT and Roy off. I crawled into my tent out back of Johns house around 2 AM
with the shadow of the bike beaming in from the back porch light, which made it
hard to sleep. Sleep finally found me with I'm sure a smile still beaming 8^ )
Sunday found us at the VInn again for some much needed coffee and breakfast.
It was just John, Cheryl, Rod and myself and was much quieter than the last two
days. I packed my stuff, helped throw away some misc. cups and bottles and
helped John unload the charging paraphinalia into John garage. Of course EVery
cable had o be perfect this took about an hour and a half, LMAO It was like
doing it with Monk, hehe 8^ P
The trip back over flew by as I remininessed about the EVent as I checked my
mirrors to make sure it wasn't all a dream. I couldn't wait to get home to
tell the family about all that had happened. I arrived to find I had a
birthday to go to and had about 30 minutes to go through 300 emails so I could
try and write a post once home. Sitting at the party did me in as the eyes
sagged and the brain mushed. I'm an early to bed early to rise guy and these
events just kick my butt. The rush of the event is also a far cry from my
every day mild Clark Kent life which adds to the drain. My dinner is done and
so I leave you all hoping this find you well and wishing you enjoyed this event
through my eyes. I can't attest to it being like the old days, but it was in
fact a hoot!
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
PS: A very big congrats to Chip, Ot, and Mr. Matt Graham with their awards
but I got a new bike, nanana 8^ P
---------------------------------
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Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
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