EV Digest 5807
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Variac on 240vac?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: A bit cleaner air on the lake today
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Variac on 240vac?
by Ralph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Variac on 240vac?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) New to list and question about Etek motor
by Ed Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Variac on 240vac?
by Mike Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: A bit cleaner air on the lake today
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Cheap EV motor
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: RPM Team Status Report
by "Matt Kenigson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: New to list and question about Etek motor
by "Death to All Spammers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: A bit cleaner air on the lake today
by "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: New to list and question about Etek motor
by "Dmitri Hurik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Need GVWR for Honda Civic hatchback
by Ed Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The voltage you have to get is 390.2vdc. I know the variac will do about
360. Not sure it's possible. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: Variac on 240vac?
> The imbalance is what I want to avoid since trying to rebalance 252
> cells is not a joyous task.
>
> I could do just as you did, by taking each box of 19 cells and peak
> charge them. That should be a little closer charge level box to box.
> But it will allow me to initialize the charge without any jerry rigged
> set ups, which I can also easily do.
>
> Do you suppose I could just start the initialization charge on the
> whole pack with a variac on just 120vac? Then use the truck to pump in
> the 50-60 AH once the voltage is up to 130vdc or so? I could do all of
> this with the old nimh setup that's still in the bed of the truck. Then
> after they are intialized I can install them into the batt box under
> the bed.
>
> For those that don't know that BB600 nicads require an initialization
> charge when they are new of about 50-60 ah. They are 30-40 ah cells
> depending on discharge rate.
>
> Mike
>
>
> --- Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Mike Phillips wrote:
> > > Logistically it would be easier to do 19 at a time. But since there
> > is
> > > no bms to peak them to the same voltage I wonder if I'll end up
> > with an
> > > unbalanced pack from the very first charge.
> >
> > My experience with the Elec-trak at first was to charge the batteries
> > in
> > sets of 12 volts, then pop them into the tractor. This resulted in an
> >
> > unbalanced pack; took a few hard charges from the E20's charger to
> > get
> > it in sync.
> >
> > I was really happy in charging the truck as one big unit.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Ellis wrote:
What was the cost on your system, Stefan?
Well - since the hull is an important part of the equation, I'll include it:
~$380 Hull Materials (Wood, Epoxy, Silicon-Bronze Fasteners)
~$140 Paint, trim, fittings, seats + wiring
$100 Motorguide Thruster T34B (on sale)
$70 Exide "Stowaway" 110Ah Group 27 deep cycle battery from Napa
$30 Soneil 1206S Charger
So, combined with 5 weekends of labor, about $720 so far. I'm sure that
there is another $100 or so I've forgotten about, so lets just pad that
to around $800.
ROFL - that's less then the cost of a smaller ICE outboard - *just* the
outboard, no boat.
But I'd say that at $20/hour, I have well over $1000 of labor in the
bugger. So I payed for the difference in sweat ;-)
And does anyone know what would be needed to charge this battery from
a 12VDC solar power system?
Well, a 15Watt (waterproof) panel and a 1 amp charge controller should
do nicely for typical weekend use. Something like this, perhaps?
http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=VDC-SCC015
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Had y'all thought about getting an auxillary 35V transformer and using it to
buck the windings of the variac you have? That would get you into range without
damage to the variac- you just would not be able to turn it down to zero as the
lowest it would go would be the output voltage of the transformer.
-Ralph
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:53:16 -0700
"Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The voltage you have to get is 390.2vdc. I know the variac will do about
> 360. Not sure it's possible. Lawrence Rhodes.......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Variac on 240vac?
>
>
> > The imbalance is what I want to avoid since trying to rebalance 252
> > cells is not a joyous task.
> >
> > I could do just as you did, by taking each box of 19 cells and peak
> > charge them. That should be a little closer charge level box to box.
> > But it will allow me to initialize the charge without any jerry rigged
> > set ups, which I can also easily do.
> >
> > Do you suppose I could just start the initialization charge on the
> > whole pack with a variac on just 120vac? Then use the truck to pump in
> > the 50-60 AH once the voltage is up to 130vdc or so? I could do all of
> > this with the old nimh setup that's still in the bed of the truck. Then
> > after they are intialized I can install them into the batt box under
> > the bed.
> >
> > For those that don't know that BB600 nicads require an initialization
> > charge when they are new of about 50-60 ah. They are 30-40 ah cells
> > depending on discharge rate.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > --- Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Mike Phillips wrote:
> > > > Logistically it would be easier to do 19 at a time. But since there
> > > is
> > > > no bms to peak them to the same voltage I wonder if I'll end up
> > > with an
> > > > unbalanced pack from the very first charge.
> > >
> > > My experience with the Elec-trak at first was to charge the batteries
> > > in
> > > sets of 12 volts, then pop them into the tractor. This resulted in an
> > >
> > > unbalanced pack; took a few hard charges from the E20's charger to
> > > get
> > > it in sync.
> > >
> > > I was really happy in charging the truck as one big unit.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wouldn't do that too fast Mark.....
Copper and graphite are only one of a hand full of ingredients in brush
material.
For most of us high voltage Ev racers... commutation is the primary issue..
not conduction. At 120 volts and higher.. too much copper is a death
sentance to the commutator because the the poor arc quenching of a very low
resistance brush..
Rod had high copper brushes and blew large GREEN fire balls from his
motors.. and Jim Husted had to fix them... Point made?
So.. get a brush for your application, ... ask the brush guys... not your
local AC slip ring guy... Big difference!!!
Have fun... hope you like Green fire!!!
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 7:57 AM
Subject: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
> Hi,
>
> I just read a study, google: "Testing of Silver, Copper and
Electro-Graphite Brush Materials for Slip Ring Units". Department of
Electrical Engineering, Stolkholm. They concluded that with various
currents and speeds to 5k rpm's that COPPER-GRAPHITE brushes were the best
for total of frictional and electrical losses. Fig 9 at 13A/cm^2 at 3k
rpm's the copper had 170W loss while the silver had 275W loss and the
standard graphite 360W loss!. I'm convinced, I'm running to Warfield right
now to get my copper impregnated brushes.
>
> Have a copper-graphite day,
> Mark
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small
Business.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you suppose I could just start the initialization charge on the
whole pack with a variac on just 120vac? Then use the truck to pump in
the 50-60 AH once the voltage is up to 130vdc or so? I could do all of
this with the old nimh setup that's still in the bed of the truck. Then
after they are intialized I can install them into the batt box under
the bed.
No, 252 cells will almost immediately go up to over 1 volt a cell when you
start charging them, so you will not get any energy into them with a 120V
variac. In fact I think you will find that once you remove all the shorting
resistors and wire them together that there will be a significant voltage
even without charging. They don't stay at 0 volts once the shorting
resistor is removed.
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich, whenever using my name in a post make damn sure you are telling the
truth. The following statement by you is an out and out lie.
Rich said:: "Rod had high copper brushes and blew large GREEN fire balls
from his motors.. and Jim Husted had to fix them... Point made?"
About 8 years ago I tried some 95% copper graphite brushes and did indeed
have some arcing problems. Later I switched to a 33% mixture of copper with
much better results. I have not run copper graphite brushes for over 6
years. I have only met Jim Husted last year at PIR. Point is not made Rich!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
I wouldn't do that too fast Mark.....
Copper and graphite are only one of a hand full of ingredients in brush
material.
For most of us high voltage Ev racers... commutation is the primary
issue..
not conduction. At 120 volts and higher.. too much copper is a death
sentance to the commutator because the the poor arc quenching of a very
low
resistance brush..
Rod had high copper brushes and blew large GREEN fire balls from his
motors.. and Jim Husted had to fix them... Point made?
So.. get a brush for your application, ... ask the brush guys... not your
local AC slip ring guy... Big difference!!!
Have fun... hope you like Green fire!!!
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 7:57 AM
Subject: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
Hi,
I just read a study, google: "Testing of Silver, Copper and
Electro-Graphite Brush Materials for Slip Ring Units". Department of
Electrical Engineering, Stolkholm. They concluded that with various
currents and speeds to 5k rpm's that COPPER-GRAPHITE brushes were the best
for total of frictional and electrical losses. Fig 9 at 13A/cm^2 at 3k
rpm's the copper had 170W loss while the silver had 275W loss and the
standard graphite 360W loss!. I'm convinced, I'm running to Warfield
right
now to get my copper impregnated brushes.
Have a copper-graphite day,
Mark
---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small
Business.
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date: 8/28/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date: 8/28/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I've been researching making an EV for commuting and am glad to find
this list. I'm sure I'll be able to find out most if not all of what I
need in the way of information here.
One site I've found is an EV calculation page by Uve
(http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalculator.html) One of the most
interesting motors to use is the B&S Etek. Looks like the ideal motor.
Too bad it's not available any more, though a check on Ebay found a
recent auction for a pair of Etek motors.
My question is, is the Etek really capable of powering an EV. Say I
want to convert a Ford Escort or a VW Fastback, both cars that I'm
considering. Would the Etek really work or is there something I'm
missing? Using the Etek in the calculations makes it look like the
perfect motor for long distance driving, good highway speed, able to
leap tall buildings in a single bound (my home is at the top of a 2
mile/8% grade climb. Is this real or imaginary? If imaginary, what
motor will work for my conditions?
Thanks,
Ed Stevens
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That would be great news if they jumped up to 1.0v or even slightly
less when the shorting bar is removed. The trucks charger could easily
pick it up from down around 200v and brind it up to 375v. I just need
to get the nicads over 200v or so.
Mike
--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Do you suppose I could just start the initialization charge on the
> >whole pack with a variac on just 120vac? Then use the truck to pump
> in
> >the 50-60 AH once the voltage is up to 130vdc or so? I could do all
> of
> >this with the old nimh setup that's still in the bed of the truck.
> Then
> >after they are intialized I can install them into the batt box under
> >the bed.
>
> No, 252 cells will almost immediately go up to over 1 volt a cell
> when you
> start charging them, so you will not get any energy into them with a
> 120V
> variac. In fact I think you will find that once you remove all the
> shorting
> resistors and wire them together that there will be a significant
> voltage
> even without charging. They don't stay at 0 volts once the shorting
> resistor is removed.
>
> damon
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Well - since the hull is an important part of the equation, I'll include it:
>
> ~$380 Hull Materials (Wood, Epoxy, Silicon-Bronze Fasteners)
> ~$140 Paint, trim, fittings, seats + wiring
> $100 Motorguide Thruster T34B (on sale)
> $70 Exide "Stowaway" 110Ah Group 27 deep cycle battery from Napa
> $30 Soneil 1206S Charger
>
Stefan
I may have missed this at the beginning of this thread, but what kind of boat
is it? What does it
look like? I'm interested in doing a boat someday too and would like to know
what works well. I
have a trolling motor I'll probably hook up to my canoe, but I also have a 6.7"
ADC that might
work nicely in a larger boat.
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Alright, who can pick one up and tell if it's a good motor?
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I happened to be looking in the Surplus Center catalog
> (www.surpluscenter.com). On page 110 they show:
>
> DC motor, item 10-2120, $199.99. New GE model 5BT-1344B133 compound
> traction motor. Specs: 2 hp, 24 vdc, 72 amps, 1050 rpm, continuous duty,
> open frame, CW rotation, shaft 1.125" dia. 2.5" long w/keyway, 9" dia x
> 14.5" long, 149 lbs.
>
> Gentlemen, that ain't no 2hp motor! It's almost as big as an Advanced DC
> 9"! 1050 rpm indeed; it should easily handle 6000 rpm, which is around
> 144v. It may be 2hp at 24v, but will be more like 12hp at 144v.
>
> And, it's compound wound!
>
> Now, all I know is what I read in the catalogs. But this looks like a
> good candidate for a cheap EV!
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fine Rod..
I saw the Damn Green fire Balls mySelf and so did all the Gasser at
Bremerton...
My (our) home Track.. That was What 3 years ago now???
Say what you will, I had my hand on the brushes, and I know what I did.
Infact Rod... I have the very brushes in hand that I am speaking of....
Jim had to fix your front motor... after.. many brush events.. and these
brushes were one of those..Umm tried efforts , and with poor results.
So.. In effect after 3 years.. finally one of the motors that had these
brushes in it.. did get to Jim's Capable hands.
Years after I have done my best and only had you fry my hard won efforts.
No lies.. at all, a bit of Dramatic editing...And a LOT of truth.
I noticed that the stone gards are off all the motors on Gp again....
You are the only guy I know that will willingly Screw up motors that were
gifted to you.
You had 100 MPH set in your hands this weekend...all you had to do is make a
run with the Series parallel switch in manual mode.. and Bag your bragging
rights.
Why Rod... did you walk away from a sure thing??
Need a pair of 600 amp breakers ??... I have a set... but you are the one
that is supposed to be selling them....
They go for about $100 on the Open list.. Breakers.com I think...
Madman
Also Rod.. "Lie" is a very stiff statement.. on the open list.... You should
be alot more carfull in how you use that word.
Maybe you should have Jim take a Look at the back motors on Gp..it might
help.
Turning the comms to get the Stone Dinks out...might help keep the brushes
in contact with the copper.
The whole point here is.. high copper content brushes are NOT what street
racers need. In fact they are very Wrong and will wreak the comm in short
order.
Super High copper content brushes are for the very low voltage very highly
loaded Lift truck appliactions.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
>
> Rich, whenever using my name in a post make damn sure you are telling the
> truth. The following statement by you is an out and out lie.
>
> Rich said:: "Rod had high copper brushes and blew large GREEN fire balls
> from his motors.. and Jim Husted had to fix them... Point made?"
>
> About 8 years ago I tried some 95% copper graphite brushes and did indeed
> have some arcing problems. Later I switched to a 33% mixture of copper
with
> much better results. I have not run copper graphite brushes for over 6
> years. I have only met Jim Husted last year at PIR. Point is not made
Rich!
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
>
>
> >I wouldn't do that too fast Mark.....
> >
> > Copper and graphite are only one of a hand full of ingredients in brush
> > material.
> > For most of us high voltage Ev racers... commutation is the primary
> > issue..
> > not conduction. At 120 volts and higher.. too much copper is a death
> > sentance to the commutator because the the poor arc quenching of a very
> > low
> > resistance brush..
> >
> > Rod had high copper brushes and blew large GREEN fire balls from his
> > motors.. and Jim Husted had to fix them... Point made?
> >
> > So.. get a brush for your application, ... ask the brush guys... not
your
> > local AC slip ring guy... Big difference!!!
> >
> > Have fun... hope you like Green fire!!!
> >
> > Madman
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 7:57 AM
> > Subject: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
> >
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I just read a study, google: "Testing of Silver, Copper and
> > Electro-Graphite Brush Materials for Slip Ring Units". Department of
> > Electrical Engineering, Stolkholm. They concluded that with various
> > currents and speeds to 5k rpm's that COPPER-GRAPHITE brushes were the
best
> > for total of frictional and electrical losses. Fig 9 at 13A/cm^2 at 3k
> > rpm's the copper had 170W loss while the silver had 275W loss and the
> > standard graphite 360W loss!. I'm convinced, I'm running to Warfield
> > right
> > now to get my copper impregnated brushes.
> >>
> >> Have a copper-graphite day,
> >> Mark
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------
> >> Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo!
Small
> > Business.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date:
8/28/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date: 8/28/2006
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey guys! I was wondering where you guys would be. It might be worth the
6hr drive from Nashville to come see WZ and DR and the crew.
Matt
On 8/29/06, Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 1:10 AM
Subject: RPM Team Status Report
>
> Hi Folks
>
> FT, Rick True, and myself have all made it to a motel within 30 minutes
of
> Indianapolis in less than 44 hours after leaving Portland without
incident.
>
> It is definitely nice not to have to keep rollin' for a while.
>
> We will load in the White Zombie and Dragon Rose at the trade show site
> tomorrow.
>
> All in all, not a bad cross-country run across the USA :^D
> That's for sure! Beat the hell out of Amtrak's times of the Empire
Builder! As the builder does, you didn't stop anywhere for long!
> Will post updates when I can.
> ...
> Be listnin' in! Good practice for Battery Beach Burnout in Jan.
Probably
only another 20 hours to West Palm!
Seeya
Bob
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
> NEDRA NW Regional Director
> www.nedra.com
>
> My EV and RE Project Pages-
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>
> Informative Electric Vehicle Links-
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/429 - Release Date: 8/28/06
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> My question is, is the Etek really capable of powering an EV. Say I
> want to convert a Ford Escort or a VW Fastback, both cars that I'm
> considering. Would the Etek really work or is there something I'm
> missing? Using the Etek in the calculations makes it look like the
> perfect motor for long distance driving, good highway speed, able to
> leap tall buildings in a single bound (my home is at the top of a 2
> mile/8% grade climb. Is this real or imaginary? If imaginary, what
> motor will work for my conditions?
>
A single Etek...a real-life car...an 8% grade?! No, it will fry - 48V
with a 300-350A peak is a limited time offer, and even if it doesn't
burn up, 15hp max doesn't make for convincing performance in anything
larger than a motorcycle. Now, 8 of them in a Metro might be fine, but
where are you gonna find that many?! A German-made PMG132 is similar
and handles more voltage - you can still get *them* ($800-1000), but
if you are willing to buy several *and* all those controllers, you
might as well ask Victor for an AC setup to get everything in one
basket. If you are going DIY and saving money, an AdvDC motor and a
Curtis should get you up that hill, until Otmar becomes a slave to the
production line and there end up being more Z1K's available...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
--- "Stefan T. Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well - since the hull is an important part of the equation, I'll include it:
~$380 Hull Materials (Wood, Epoxy, Silicon-Bronze Fasteners)
~$140 Paint, trim, fittings, seats + wiring
$100 Motorguide Thruster T34B (on sale)
$70 Exide "Stowaway" 110Ah Group 27 deep cycle battery from Napa
$30 Soneil 1206S Charger
Stefan
I may have missed this at the beginning of this thread, but what kind of boat
is it? What does it
look like? I'm interested in doing a boat someday too and would like to know
what works well. I
have a trolling motor I'll probably hook up to my canoe, but I also have a 6.7"
ADC that might
work nicely in a larger boat.
Thanks
Dave Cover
Yeow - a 6.7" would push just about any smaller (12-24ft) boat along at
an exhilarating clip. I would suggest something like this:
http://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=480
Which is designed to be run from something like this:
http://www.boatdesigns.com/products.asp?dept=474
--
Stefan T. Peters
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all
Now, now, my little ankle biters 8^ P
I was hoping to put this post off untill after work but felt I better get
between Rich and Rod, hehe.
When I received Rod's comm plate it had OEM H-100 ADC brushes installed.
They looked a little different from when they were new though, hehe. As it
stands H-100 brushes were reinstalled with an added extra bit of length being I
removed the inner holder bridge and installed a modified B-89 brush that ADC
sell for a little extra current mass to help ease GP and Rods amp sucking
power. What would you expect from a guy who wears Suck Amps shirts though 8^ P
I didn't mean to imply that brush grades can not be improved either by my
earlier statement. I don't think that copper based brushes would be good for
the voltages being used in EV's though. Basic rule is the harder the brush the
faster you will wear out the comm. Once it starts wearing untrue it will eat
any grade of brush thats installed. I am planning on sending some brush
samples out to have them take a look to see whats available. Cost is something
else to be looked at also. Roland has some 500.00 brush sets, any takers on an
order like that?? I don't know about the rest of you but my most common
question is how much does it cost??
I touched on this a while back when the Warp grade was questioned. Warfield
uses the same H-100 grade and in fact it is a really good grade. What I don't
get is that everyone blames the motor or the motors parts in the event of
failures. What they ought to be looking at is what caused it to fail which is
more than likely motor overloading. Lets take Waylands motor for example.
He's still running his original brushes on the front half. I had to replace
the back half after the Woodburn flashover (mostly cosmetic damage) but the
front side is running it's 5th season and they look great! I will probably be
replacing the front side this winter as they got overloaded during the field
weakening attempts earlier this year. John Byans motor is another example of
11 year old brushes that look like they just came from the factory in both
length and color and his comm is perfect!
As has been stated I've only been doing the EV thing for just a year now so
I'm the baby in the family.
What I'm faced with is having to sift the wheat from the chaff from all the
different camps out there.
There is a huge differance of opinion out there as far as motors go and I
believe there a pieces to the puzzle spread out equally throughout these very
talented and experienced people. Whats needed is to assemble those pieces to
build the perfect motor. I will stress that whats good for the goose is not
always good for the gander. Different people have different needs. With that
said I doubt I could lock ten of you up to decide a color let alone any
important issues 8^ P Do know that I'm working on many fronts to help people
with those needs and problems as best I can with the resources I have.
I have to go back to work now so I want a clean fight, no biting, or hair
pulling from either one of you or I'll have to drive up and kick both your
butt's hehe. Wait I'm smaller than you guys, I take that back!
Ding, Ding, round two...
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Fine Rod..
I saw the Damn Green fire Balls mySelf and so did all the Gasser at
Bremerton...
My (our) home Track.. That was What 3 years ago now???
Say what you will, I had my hand on the brushes, and I know what I did.
Infact Rod... I have the very brushes in hand that I am speaking of....
Jim had to fix your front motor... after.. many brush events.. and these
brushes were one of those..Umm tried efforts , and with poor results.
So.. In effect after 3 years.. finally one of the motors that had these
brushes in it.. did get to Jim's Capable hands.
Years after I have done my best and only had you fry my hard won efforts.
No lies.. at all, a bit of Dramatic editing...And a LOT of truth.
I noticed that the stone gards are off all the motors on Gp again....
You are the only guy I know that will willingly Screw up motors that were
gifted to you.
You had 100 MPH set in your hands this weekend...all you had to do is make a
run with the Series parallel switch in manual mode.. and Bag your bragging
rights.
Why Rod... did you walk away from a sure thing??
Need a pair of 600 amp breakers ??... I have a set... but you are the one
that is supposed to be selling them....
They go for about $100 on the Open list.. Breakers.com I think...
Madman
Also Rod.. "Lie" is a very stiff statement.. on the open list.... You should
be alot more carfull in how you use that word.
Maybe you should have Jim take a Look at the back motors on Gp..it might
help.
Turning the comms to get the Stone Dinks out...might help keep the brushes
in contact with the copper.
The whole point here is.. high copper content brushes are NOT what street
racers need. In fact they are very Wrong and will wreak the comm in short
order.
Super High copper content brushes are for the very low voltage very highly
loaded Lift truck appliactions.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
>
> Rich, whenever using my name in a post make damn sure you are telling the
> truth. The following statement by you is an out and out lie.
>
> Rich said:: "Rod had high copper brushes and blew large GREEN fire balls
> from his motors.. and Jim Husted had to fix them... Point made?"
>
> About 8 years ago I tried some 95% copper graphite brushes and did indeed
> have some arcing problems. Later I switched to a 33% mixture of copper
with
> much better results. I have not run copper graphite brushes for over 6
> years. I have only met Jim Husted last year at PIR. Point is not made
Rich!
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
>
>
> >I wouldn't do that too fast Mark.....
> >
> > Copper and graphite are only one of a hand full of ingredients in brush
> > material.
> > For most of us high voltage Ev racers... commutation is the primary
> > issue..
> > not conduction. At 120 volts and higher.. too much copper is a death
> > sentance to the commutator because the the poor arc quenching of a very
> > low
> > resistance brush..
> >
> > Rod had high copper brushes and blew large GREEN fire balls from his
> > motors.. and Jim Husted had to fix them... Point made?
> >
> > So.. get a brush for your application, ... ask the brush guys... not
your
> > local AC slip ring guy... Big difference!!!
> >
> > Have fun... hope you like Green fire!!!
> >
> > Madman
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark E. Hanson"
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 7:57 AM
> > Subject: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
> >
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I just read a study, google: "Testing of Silver, Copper and
> > Electro-Graphite Brush Materials for Slip Ring Units". Department of
> > Electrical Engineering, Stolkholm. They concluded that with various
> > currents and speeds to 5k rpm's that COPPER-GRAPHITE brushes were the
best
> > for total of frictional and electrical losses. Fig 9 at 13A/cm^2 at 3k
> > rpm's the copper had 170W loss while the silver had 275W loss and the
> > standard graphite 360W loss!. I'm convinced, I'm running to Warfield
> > right
> > now to get my copper impregnated brushes.
> >>
> >> Have a copper-graphite day,
> >> Mark
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------
> >> Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo!
Small
> > Business.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date:
8/28/2006
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date: 8/28/2006
>
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates
starting at 1ยข/min.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A single etek is too weak, won't work.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 12:52 PM
Subject: New to list and question about Etek motor
Hi,
I've been researching making an EV for commuting and am glad to find
this list. I'm sure I'll be able to find out most if not all of what I
need in the way of information here.
One site I've found is an EV calculation page by Uve
(http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalculator.html) One of the most
interesting motors to use is the B&S Etek. Looks like the ideal motor.
Too bad it's not available any more, though a check on Ebay found a
recent auction for a pair of Etek motors.
My question is, is the Etek really capable of powering an EV. Say I
want to convert a Ford Escort or a VW Fastback, both cars that I'm
considering. Would the Etek really work or is there something I'm
missing? Using the Etek in the calculations makes it look like the
perfect motor for long distance driving, good highway speed, able to
leap tall buildings in a single bound (my home is at the top of a 2
mile/8% grade climb. Is this real or imaginary? If imaginary, what
motor will work for my conditions?
Thanks,
Ed Stevens
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When talking specifications on this list accuracy and factual reporting is
of the utmost importance. There has never been copper content brushes in GP.
It runs stock H100 grade graphite brushes and always has. It is a simple
fact! You can confirm this with Jim Husted.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
Fine Rod..
I saw the Damn Green fire Balls mySelf and so did all the Gasser at
Bremerton...
My (our) home Track.. That was What 3 years ago now???
Say what you will, I had my hand on the brushes, and I know what I did.
Infact Rod... I have the very brushes in hand that I am speaking of....
Jim had to fix your front motor... after.. many brush events.. and these
brushes were one of those..Umm tried efforts , and with poor results.
So.. In effect after 3 years.. finally one of the motors that had these
brushes in it.. did get to Jim's Capable hands.
Years after I have done my best and only had you fry my hard won efforts.
No lies.. at all, a bit of Dramatic editing...And a LOT of truth.
I noticed that the stone gards are off all the motors on Gp again....
You are the only guy I know that will willingly Screw up motors that were
gifted to you.
You had 100 MPH set in your hands this weekend...all you had to do is make
a
run with the Series parallel switch in manual mode.. and Bag your bragging
rights.
Why Rod... did you walk away from a sure thing??
Need a pair of 600 amp breakers ??... I have a set... but you are the one
that is supposed to be selling them....
They go for about $100 on the Open list.. Breakers.com I think...
Madman
Also Rod.. "Lie" is a very stiff statement.. on the open list.... You
should
be alot more carfull in how you use that word.
Maybe you should have Jim take a Look at the back motors on Gp..it might
help.
Turning the comms to get the Stone Dinks out...might help keep the brushes
in contact with the copper.
The whole point here is.. high copper content brushes are NOT what street
racers need. In fact they are very Wrong and will wreak the comm in short
order.
Super High copper content brushes are for the very low voltage very highly
loaded Lift truck appliactions.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
Rich, whenever using my name in a post make damn sure you are telling the
truth. The following statement by you is an out and out lie.
Rich said:: "Rod had high copper brushes and blew large GREEN fire balls
from his motors.. and Jim Husted had to fix them... Point made?"
About 8 years ago I tried some 95% copper graphite brushes and did indeed
have some arcing problems. Later I switched to a 33% mixture of copper
with
much better results. I have not run copper graphite brushes for over 6
years. I have only met Jim Husted last year at PIR. Point is not made
Rich!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
>I wouldn't do that too fast Mark.....
>
> Copper and graphite are only one of a hand full of ingredients in brush
> material.
> For most of us high voltage Ev racers... commutation is the primary
> issue..
> not conduction. At 120 volts and higher.. too much copper is a death
> sentance to the commutator because the the poor arc quenching of a very
> low
> resistance brush..
>
> Rod had high copper brushes and blew large GREEN fire balls from his
> motors.. and Jim Husted had to fix them... Point made?
>
> So.. get a brush for your application, ... ask the brush guys... not
your
> local AC slip ring guy... Big difference!!!
>
> Have fun... hope you like Green fire!!!
>
> Madman
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 7:57 AM
> Subject: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just read a study, google: "Testing of Silver, Copper and
> Electro-Graphite Brush Materials for Slip Ring Units". Department of
> Electrical Engineering, Stolkholm. They concluded that with various
> currents and speeds to 5k rpm's that COPPER-GRAPHITE brushes were the
best
> for total of frictional and electrical losses. Fig 9 at 13A/cm^2 at 3k
> rpm's the copper had 170W loss while the silver had 275W loss and the
> standard graphite 360W loss!. I'm convinced, I'm running to Warfield
> right
> now to get my copper impregnated brushes.
>>
>> Have a copper-graphite day,
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo!
Small
> Business.
>>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date:
8/28/2006
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date: 8/28/2006
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date: 8/28/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date: 8/28/2006
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: Copper vs Silver vs Regular Bimbo Brushes
I have to go back to work now so I want a clean fight, no biting, or hair
pulling from either one of you or I'll have to drive up and kick both your
butt's hehe. Wait I'm smaller than you guys, I take that back!
Ding, Ding, round two...
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Hey Jim.. Rod and I have to rip up each other..or we just don't notice
much...
Rod and I have been over this a million times..
I just don't want the list stampeeding off to mill solid copper brushes..
with a dash of Graphite and think it might work.
You should just sit back and make a fortune on the number of melted
Comms...that could be...
I used Rod's copper brush attack as a example.....not as a step by step
recall of history.
I know Gp's front had stock brushes.... I put them in. I have the ones that
came out of it... and some of the ones that were in it before that.
The Backs have had Stocker 8 inch brushes in them I think since I broke them
in on the Gone Postal Show. The backs got pounds of gravel dumped through
them when Rod's place had a 1/2 mile of crushed rock for a drive way. The
front motor got stoned a few times too. Not the good stoning Mind you
but...the Crushed Basalt kind.
By So by the time you had Gp's front motor.. it was on it's 3 or better set
of brushes, That I know of....
I must commend Rod in being mellow and not breaking a thing this year, and
actually having me drop the Back battery amps. His first run Saturday night,
Got him about 200 Ft down the strip.. Otmar and I were betting how many Feet
he would travel under power before somthing broke.. I said 200 Ft Ot said
100 ft... It looks like a tie at about 150 then, that silence...
Wishfull thinking does not keep 250 amp breakers set, when you ask for 2000
amps...or What was it the front? I had 1200 battery and the backs has 1800
and I set them downed them to 1400 then. Then the breakers held for a
Goldie beating 16 second run at 79 mph. Without Parallel.. OK... Safe run...
good start.. But he never went back out with parallel working.
The Auto shift has to have %100 throttle to activate.. the throttle pot that
feeds the back controller has been a issue before... and apparently still
is.
Same dial up.. with a manual switch to Parallel at the 4th to 5th up shift
on the fronts would have been , Oh Well, would have been very
impressive.....
Madman
Keep in mind I have the 2x4 right next to my PC here.....
John??/ Que up the old story about Madman's 2 by 4... and who actually made
it...
And why.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm looking for the GVWR for a 1990 Honda Civic Hatchback. Don't seem
to find it online anywhere. Anyone know the answer?
Thanks,
Ed
--- End Message ---
